Boris and this is straight talk. Michael Cats. Welcome mate to straight talk.
Thank you.
I'm very privileged to have you sit in front of me like this, mate, privileged to be here. Turn it up right mate, Okay, We've got a lot to cover. Yeah, as you know, I'm a boxing student, tragic. I love the game. But there's lots of talk about, particularly in relation to your career. But probably importantly, take me back to midwest. We call Queensland. Whether it's up on the table lands, isn't it. Yeah, take me back to who Michael CATSI this was as a young kid. I mean,
I know you box from a very young age. Amts your dad a box at what's the deal?
No? No, dad comes from Greece. He was born there. He's from a very small, small village called Ataraki. It's near Larissa, which is three hours in lands from Athens. So you come over here when you I think he was like twenty years old something like that and married Mum. She's from Mari and they married to Ma. Yeah yeah yeah, mum, yeah yeah. But they were very young and they had my brother and I. There's eighteen months difference between Stathi, my older brother. We went on to go into our
respective sports. Well, I was. I was born later, born in Timba, so I was born and bred out of Timba and got into the boxing. My brother got into the horse racing.
We both Stuffy was older than you. But was he born in Toma too? He was.
He was actually born in Mare born. Yeah, and then folks move out to but that's right, and I was born eighteen months later, that's right.
Yeah. And you just said stay went into the jockey. Yeah, yeah, we just went into the young kids. Yeah.
Yeah, so like our sport of kings. Really why did choose boxing and racing, don't? I think it's the the adrenaline, like the adrenaline rush that you get from the sports, and just the challenge like like like I remember being as a little kid and Dad used to go and help a lot of people that couldn't afford to have their
graves completed and that. So we had some people, old people lived in our neighborhood and he'd talk to them and he'd learned that he was a concreted by trade, so that we'd spend like days on end, like on a weekends, Daddo'd go and help these people do love jobs basically. And we were in these graveyards till late at night, and not late at night, but until dark basically, which is late enough in a graveyard. And that'd be
finishing off these these boneheads for people's days. Yeah. Yeah, but there was these old brumbies in there like charity thing just just to help you just love jobs to people who hadn't been other get you know, proper graves complete for their parents and stuff. This has gone back like forty you know, long thirty five years ago, at least thirty eight years. But there's all these brumbies in there in the graveyard and we'd jump on the horses and we just ride them and like I just no
way not doing this bare back, bare back. Yeah, just jump him and my brother would just he would just hang on. He would just go. He would just go. He would fly, you know. He's yeah, he was fearless, always fearless. And my grandfather, my mom's father, he's passed, but he was a jockey and also a horse trainer as well being timber has An Australia's first ever twilight racing and Timber so very popular industry start. He just you know, he was twelve.
Years of age.
You'd go to the you know, go be cleaning out stables and he'd work for these different people and just very much involved in against him from a very young age. He was always destined to be a jockey. That was what he was always going to do.
But he knew it.
Yeah, he just knew that's what he wanted to do. He didn't finish school. He stept out grade nine. He stepped out and then he just just become an apprentice. And just I remember being a little kid ringing people, you know, you know, just thirteen twelve years old, Oh starthy cats is calling. I was wondering if you need a jockey for the weekend on your and ring up. You know. He was just you know, you just keep
on going at and going on. And then he went under be one of Australia's greatest horse riders.
So I would just give me a little bit of a sense of Toomba, you know long ago. It was a long time ago now, but give me a sense of what was like. I mean, you've got a Greek father. Yeah yeah, your Greek father would probably stand out like in some of like warm but they're they're all real guys. I guess. And then you've got two half casts. One one wants to be a stable hand and turn into a joggy one day, and the other ones may be going to become a box. He might be, but it
might not have worked that out. But his job, you wouldn't have worked that out. But like these two boys running around the joint, like give me, give me a bit of a pen pen sketch of what it would look like.
Look, look dad, Dad was a very hard worker. So he was he was a concrete and he had a lot of people working for him as well. Excuse me. We were just very dedicated guys, like to to our sport and I think we for ours, for us to receive any sort of gratitude, we would just work really hard and do really well. So we always were pushed. Our parents would always take us to sports and you know, we take we'd play soccer, you know, we'd play a lot of soccer and whatever it is, activities, we'll get it.
Mum and Dad would always take us to it. So but in Twimber, you know, for us, you know, we would blend in and and you know, but it's tumers like it's a beautiful place, beautiful people country down but now now it's actually a city. Has grown over the years. But back when we were living there, there would have only been like eighty thousand, one hundred thousand people. Now I think there's up to two hundred and two hundred and fifty thousand people in Timber.
It's quite a wealthy area too.
Well, yeah, it has perpa per capita has for a long time had the largest amount of millionaires really per capita.
Yeah yeah, probably coming from grazing families or.
Yeah, yeah, so so yeah, yeah, so like the lot of the people, Yeah, that's exactly right. So people that have big properties and all that, and then like I end up having the luxury have been able to go to a boarding school later on and we'll complete high school. But in Wombera and Britain, yeah, Downlands College in Timber and a lot of the kids that I was, I was a day ago, so go by day and I'd
go home by night. But a lot of people were from wealthy families on farms that they would want to send their kids into town for a proper school, and they'd send them to go to Downlands or grammar school.
Not many boxes you can say they got a background, going to a good school.
Yeah yeah, and that's just how did you get that sporting thing? No, yes, yeah, scholarship was one avenue that we could have went along. But like boxing hasn't really been an accepted sport, like back, we're going back a while now, like I graduated in nineteen ninety eight. You know, it's you know, it wasn't boxing wasn't something a sport that you would get a scholarship for, whereas now I do believe people do get scholarships for boxing and someone. But and soccer was a sport that I was always
really good as well. I paid representative soccer, but rugby union or rugby league and those sort of things. Yet you straight in, but.
What did your parents just send you there as a just the fees?
They paid the fees, and you know, Dad was a hard working man, and that's right, that's right. And so it was like my I was lucky to have parents that loved me and would support me and drive me all the way. And my brother and I both you know, like we knew when we were in trouble, Like Dad's English wasn't always the best and there's always broken English, and oh my luck you know, we pick up all these swear words and we didn't really then we picked
on later in life what they really meant. But Greek, yeah, well mum did speak great, she did. Mum was very intelligent, so she was duck with the school five years and this is but she was really smart. So she learned language to cater for the family, to make dad's family proud of her, you know, and you know and understand them basically. But yeah, mum's very very very intelligent.
And yeah, that's around yeap. Mum.
Dad's still around yeah, yeah, but mum actually doesn't live too far from Sitney, a little bit Aladalla now the south. Yeah, my dad is with me in Brisbane.
So you guys are coys and she's down here, that's right. Yeah, as okay, so you're at school and at this stage you're playing soccer, but we're just started thinking about boxing.
But like boxing, Like I was seven years old and I watched the Rocky movies and that's just got me. So that was like my earliest memory. Wasn't that young as well? And I could say that would be like six years old. So to me, it's like I don't be in alive for about a year because my memory just doesn't go that back that fast. Just how I am. That's me, right, but a bit of a knucklehead really like that. But the boxing got me and I felt really motivated and inspired and I planted to see Then
I said, I want to be world champion. This is this is bad, but I said it to me. That was what I always said it. And I would tell everyone too, because I basically my heart on my sleeve and I'd say everything that I thought all the time and got me into a lot of trouble doing that as well. Not like my brother, he was much more
quieter than me. But you know, we had this great relationship, this great bond my brother and I. But you know, and you know, he just thought it was great that I wanted to do boxing, and you know, eventually I found boxing and that was when, you know, in Tormbo, a friend of mine said, oh, we go down to the PC icy and and yeah, yeah, And I went down the piece of icy and did a bit of boxing.
And I went down and I got punched up and I got two black eyes, you know, And the next week I was able to get there to give me a lift back down there again, I was like eleven years old and I only got one black eye. So for me that was a win. Yeah, because I thought it was so cool that these kids would go down there and you get to really punch on and it was really challenging. And for me to get one black eye instead are two, that was a big win. For me.
That was a big winner. And it's just it just progressed from there and this I was a kid that was too scared even throwing my right hand, Like I was really scared, like I didn't I didn't how to fight. And then whenever there's any altercations, you know, there was, as you said, like being in timber and being half caste, so to speak. And then you know, and then you
do it. You know, you get a bit of the redneck thing, and there's always these little controversial type of things, and you know, when there's a fights or anything like that, you know, because it can be rough at times, you know, and you know, I've always just wanted to go to It was always just to tackle them. I never knew how to box, so to learn how to box, you know, I was still really scared just to be able to throw my right hand and you know, just throw my
left hand, throw my left hand. And then I got hit with a big one and that you know, a big big shot and I just sort of I just kicked and started coming out. So then then I knew that I was a fighter then, and just the accolades I've gotten, just the appreciation I thought in the Wilsonton Hotel in Timber and you know, you know, and just to get a win, you know, And I said to myself for my next fight, I'm going to be throwing both hands. I'm going to really be giving this a
real good go. And luckily that I did. Like I waited in like thirty two point six kilo ground, yeah, how old, eleven years old, third two six yeah yeah, but I had fish and chips just before. Wayne didn't really know how that all sort of worked. So that put me into thirty five kg division. Now three kill those to a little kid. That's a lot of weight. Luckily that I did say to myself that I was going to fight really hard and throw a bed both hands, because I did, and I went, I went flat out.
But the guy, really, the guy was good. The guy was good. And if I didn't do that, he would have really wanted me and I would have been really licking my wounds.
But I lost that fight.
And from that fight I learned so a lot of people when they lose something or they in business or whatever, it is like they lose something and that's it and throw it away. But what I decided to do was start make sure I didn't eat before Wayne Wayne right. I did my diet right, and then I started running a bit more to get my legs better. So for my third fight, I bettered myself and then I didn't stop punching and I was having my legs behind him. I was the right weight and everything was on cue.
After I had that fight, and I thought a guy that I still remember the name, Sean mccullor from Quilpie, and affought him at mil Merin And this is eleven year old kid, so I've won the fight. He was really good, but I won it and I did and we both was in all that war. And what they had back then was called the shower. And you know what a shower is where they throw the money in
the ring. So for an eleven year old kid to get praise such as that, to get money thrown at the ring at them yeah, like back then, like ten bucks, twelve bucks was a heap of money, especially for an eleven year old kid. When you add up all them five cents and twenties and fifty cent or whatever, you know, that's a lot of money.
How how long did you stay amateurphorce? Obviously starting to do a certain age, But did you just keep fighting amateur for PC for your club?
Yeah? So yeah, I fought for the PC Yic for one And then I was about twelve, So I was trained under a guy called Mick Beetross. So he was a professional fighter as well, and so he taught me a lot of the boxing fundamentals and I was with him, and then I went on to train with Brendan Smith, but primarily most most of my work I did with Mick Beetross and MultiMate Goal. Then obviously, like I already
had that seed plan. I wanted to be a world champion, and I started learning about this thing called the Olympic Games. Then my goal was to become an Olympian and to go to the Olympic Games. So obviously, you know, you know, I was only young then to just finish high school and I actually had to qualify to go the Olympic Games. And that was a really big one, was the qualifiers.
So to make it the Olympic Games, you have to win the Oceanic Games and then you so you have to beat all the countries in the Ocean region of the world. And I got sick the night before the fight, and I was I was just I was just a kid still, you know, like nineteen years of age, and I was so sick. And I was fighting a guy called ramel Able what from New Zealand, And I was so I called my mother. I said, Mom, Mom, I'm so sick. You know, you know, I really want to
go to the Olympics. And she she said, look, son, all the answers that you're asking for was within yourself. She said, You've got it within yourself. Love, You've wanted this your whole life. If you want this, you'll get it. You already know what to do, Love, it's already there. You have to dig deep. And you know when you asked, when you at that age and you're asking your mom what to do, and you know when you don't, you're sick,
and you know you're pretty much crying. You just you know, and she just said, you just got to dig deep. So I did just that, and then somehow I pulled it out and I knocked the guy out. I just you know, I dug deep, and I've got the strength and I built up the resilience and I knocked out this guy and I qualified for the Olympic Games.
Because I want to stop there for said because it's interesting you're talking about Olympics and we've seen this with Harry Garsan more recently. But the style of Olympic of Amita fighting, especially at the Olympic level, probably more so back then than than today's. They've changed up a bit, but it's sort of stepping in, stepping out a lot, Like you know, it's a different style of fighting to standing in the Yeah, standing in front of someone and trading.
I mean there's not much trading, but you're sort of just doing the you know, flicking them out and yeah, do you but then you become a really aggressive fighter. Yeah later on in your pro career were you always? Were you aggressive as as a em.
Yeah, So I'm glad that you said this because look, Australians, like we're very much behind and still are so to speak. We still haven't won a gold medal at any Olympic Games. I don't know about the females. Did they win one? I don't know if the I.
Think we've got a medal, but I don't think we didn't get a goal.
But anyway, no man has ever won a gold medal at the Olympic Games for Australia at the boxing, So the best that we got was like a silver and his name was Snowy Baker back in the sixties of Yeah, it was at Melbourne nineteen sixty two. Maybe I'm not sure, but anyway, I remember looking at the stats and so for Harry to get that, you know, where he's done so far, like he's done great for the country, but
we were just so underdeveloped. And when you look at the Cubans, the Russians, the Germans differently, it's just it's just it's a sport to them, but to us it's a fight. Yeah, you know, and we had that mentality and that that's all I knew. That's that's so so you know, I'm actually I'm a slow learner, but when I've got something, I've got something. And for me, all
out attack was my only way of winning. Just all out attack, attack, attack, attacks, So I actually looked into the other side of things, and I took some some lessons on board, and I said to the Cuban coach, because they're the best, and they couldn't speak good English. But I said to him and said, what do we need to do as Australians to be better fighters, to be better boxes? And he didn't want to give us an insult, but he wanted to give us a compliment.
So he say, he goes Oi, he goes tough, tough like this, but he goes like that, Russia, Cuba, Germany play play play like this strategy, Yeah, play play and relaxed and and and he goes, he goes Russiak Cuba play play. So it just it's just our mentality. And that's how we sort of were, or sort of like Britain and showing our motion and too much emotion.
That's interesting because you don't notice me talk to the Cubans. You don't see them many great professional Cuban fighters either. Rarely do they become great fighters. And when you see a couple of heavyweights divisions that were only won more recently, but they concentrated winning the Olympics, I don't know what it is, what the deal is but I think they get paid for it. Is it because of our training.
We don't have the right coaches at our em middle level because they're all ad to becoming they get dragged Avemitas, Jeff, you, Danny, I mean there's a whole heap of them look to become world champions.
Yeah. Yeah, Look, I was really privileged to be an Olympic team with the likes of Paul and Miller, like Danny Green, Danny Gill. You know, we traveled all around the world together and we went to the US Olympic Training Center in Colorado, where like these guys have the state of the art facilities, and the stuff that they're more focused on then was was science, you know, like and mental awareness and things like this. Like when I was at the US Olympic Training Center, I learned that
a bit about the preparation. So we had three groups and one group did twenty five percent twenty five percent mental training and seventy five percent physical training. The other group did fifty percent mental training fifty percent physical training, and the third group did seventy five percent mental training
and only twenty five percent physical training. In the end, the results were the group that did the seventy five percent mental training and only twenty five percent physical training got far greater results as per the amount of mental
training that they did. So the emphasis on psychology in sport these days and being at the speed, and it makes more sense even as a professional fighter in the pro ranks with the smaller gloves on, to be a relaxed fighter, a calma fighter, because you know, we are here to express that highest potential and master around emotions and when you're fighting, you don't emotions is just just giving energy, excess energy, and you don't need to do that.
But the best of the best, if you look at them from outside, it appears as their machines, like their robotics and how they do things. And you know, Australia basically hasn't won a gold medal as yet because we're only a young country when these these other countries have been doing this stuff for centuries, centuries and for such a long time. And then they share information, they passed it on and they you know, what's important to them.
But you know Australia is you know, the day that we win a gold medal at the Olympic Games is the day that we're going to be treated a lot more the fighters in Australia, boxing will be treated more so like the swimmers get treated like look at the even Harry Garside, although he lost at the Olympics, the accolades like the support that he gets and who he is as a person, Like in Australia, he's relatively known. Like we had when I went to the Olympic Games.
We had like there's like ten of us that made the team and a lot of us become good fight like Danny Gilded so good and Poorly Miller, did you know he went onto other things. But Danny, Danny Green, you know, like like we we excelled and we like still the accolades. We know, you don't get the credibility like like you would if you're in like the other sports and that, but had we want to go medal. It's it's it's a different it's a whole different thing.
Like you you are, you're put in front of the world as as your country as you're you're the country's Olympians. So the most elite, yeah, the most elite.
Yeah.
Yeah, you put up on this high pedestal and then after it's over, there's nothing left it and that has a psychological effect on athletes, and you know, and then sometimes the lies. You know, it's not always about it's not always adulation. And that's the life is not always like rosy impeachy.
It's not there's no money to do.
Actually no, there's no and there's you know, and it's always been a very hard task. That's why hats hats. My hat goes off to people like Anthony Mundane and and Danny Graham, you know, fellow them, big teammate like that for things I was to pull out money out of the sport. They've done so so so good or.
Something like Danny too, is about what he did after boxing as well. He's got that two round fitness. It's got a new name you. Tommy's got a new box boxes Yeah, and uh and and Chocked the same. I mean, Chock's got a whole lot of businesses. He different And Tony tells me, I don't know, talk about it, Tony.
I was messaging before I come on to that.
Yeah, because they're active, they're always active. Danny's always active and sort of moved away from well he's still got something to a boxing, but he's sort of moved away from the art of boxing as opposed he still has a boxing in his DNA and Bonanthy's move away completely from it. So you're you come back from Olympics. You got knocked out in the second second.
Yeah yeah, lost on points. Yeah yeah, I'm made to the second round of competition. Yeers.
It's funny like Fennick Jeff Jeff Jeff one he would have gone in for the for a medal about but they reversed Boxing Federation whoever it is, reversed the decision against him, and he left him discussed. I don't think will Tomlinson never did very well, Jacko didn't, Luke didn't do very well at the Olympics. But all these guys gone out of either one world titles like you or Luke was a you know like fort food world title. Jeff won world titles and lots of them. Any won
the world title. There's and I wonder what happens post Olympics. So what happened to you post Olympics? How did you become the professional fighter you became that you weren't as a fighter.
Yeah, So like it did have a I think it did have a psychological effect, like looking back, like it was an adulation, like it's you know, there was controversy, you know, and I got charged for assault in two thousand and two.
That's just after it, because you're in the two thousand bits.
Yeah, yeah, that's right, that's right, and you know that, you know I got convicted of that, and you know it's because you sort of know, just keeping your mind busy. You know, there's a bit there's a bit of downtime and things, and it has a psychological effect on you, I guess, and you know, and then you look for gratify gratification in other areas, I guess, and then your
life can easily take a whiny turn. You know, everything's not always as perfect as what what it was, and you know, you sort of lose sight of your goal.
Did someone did some of them when you come up Olympics? Just someone come try and pick you up and like put you into a into a pro program, professional program.
After the Olympics.
No, so so so that's where you lost your way a bit.
Yeah yeah. So so the there's the psychological support now is there's there's much more support resources out there available now to people needing any sort of assistance and help. Like that's one thing I can speak for from experience, not to say that it wasn't there. Then they did offer something, but I think it's there's like a what
do they call it? They they yeah, they you know, when you finish in the big games and then then you have a debrief, but yeah you feel about this, yeah yeah, and all that stuff, and that wasn't so much pushed. But I think these days they push it, you know, push push it upon the athletes and things like that. But look, look, my real savior was like I really went into my once I finished the other big games. Look, it wasn't for me. I was a brawler.
They're not saying there's no intelligence involved in brawling, because you're still in there, you're taking punches, you're give them punches. It's still all boxing. You're brawling. But I found a lot more success in putting the fear of the fear of the of life into into my opponents. So, you know, they had all the skills, and I thought Joel cast Male gold Mellis for Cuba all this sort of thing, you know, and pretty well had the guy beat, you know.
But I put the fear of life in and I just kept on going and going and going and just being that brawler and just and just they're all out attack. Yeah, you know, and that brought me a lot of success throughout my professional career. So after going in the big games, I want to stay told in my first fight when the Australian title with my second fight when twelve three minute rounds and just went on to have great success.
I built up my record to twenty three fights with twenty three wins with twenty one knockouts and.
Had lightweight division.
In the lightweight division, yeah, yeah.
Which those people are listening, that's the equivalent division that Cambosis is into the moment. I think, yeah, Natives boy hasses in the all right lightweight division. I think he's just kind of strange champion, Okay, and yeah, so we were talking. It's a pretty heavily contested division, by the way, especially at the moment like back then too as well.
You get some of the eight fighters oh lightweight. Yeah, at the moment, it's great. These guys aren't believable. It's a very basis like these guys something special.
It's heavily contested, heavily contested. So you're in the lovemad division. So you you're I do want to go back to your when you got to rest for arrested for and charged and convicted for assault. What happens to a boxer They lose their way a little bit. We'll not lose the way bit like young bloke come from being put up on a pedal stall at the Limits Games in Sydney or high heightened awareness and all sort of stuff. Doesn't do as well as you wanted to do. Obviously,
sort of back to it. It's not picked up by as a professional probably a little bit rudderless of that state. It's still a young guy. But you've gone through this. You're living this life where you're sparring and jumping in the ring with blokes like you know, you're willing. You know how it works, you know what I mean? Yeah, do you do you? Did you get on the drink or something like that? Like what was the situation?
No, No, it wasn't, because your next fighter was.
It was.
It was it was self defense basically. But like you know how much self defense you are entitled to? You know, like the it's gonna be that's right. So the judge said that I was entitled to self defense. However I broke the guys draw in two places. But he said, you could have timed your punches precisely to break the the men's draw in two places. So that's excessive use of self defense. So the fact that that I pleaded not guilty and then got guilty as a result of it, yeah,
I've got the maximum penalty for it. So I had to serve time. You know that. That's that's you know, that's a lot not a lot of no people. Very few people next to Nune would be able to say they've been the Olympic Games and they've been the jail as well. So look, I had some things I had to overcome, and you know that was that was a real challenging time in my life.
And I think just explained the moment because I think it needs to be explained, So maybe do it as a good example, a given example. So if someone breaks into my house and he has a wooden tennis racket, I'm saying that's his weapon. Okay, if I have a gun, I'm entitled to defend myself, but not unreasonably so I can't. So having a gun. A gun is too powerful for a tennis racket, so that'd be deemed to be an unreasonable use of excessive force.
You have a gun's license, are you're trained guns?
Assuming I've got a license GA so, and let's say, in defending myself, I wounded him, the judge would say, that's not self defense, Mark, that's excessive and unreasonable use of force, which is which negates yours your your defense self defense defense in the court case. Therefore, I'll probably get convicted. For a boxer, particularly someone who's been Olympic games, if you're doing one on one with somebody, let's say weren't a boxer and he was confronting you, threatening you,
he's going to knock you out whatever. You can defend yourself. If you're not a boxing if you hit him on the chin, happens to bous so be Yeah, but the rules are if you're a fighter, that's right, you've got a weapon in your hands in that you're a trained expert at it, and therefore that would be considered to be unreasonable force and excess Yeah.
So to speak, yes, I get it, I get yeah, there is, but there's also different variables that have to be taken into consideration when assessing a judge and and the judge as a as a duty you know, as a judge to do the way they You know, there's other sorts of things that you know back then, like I can own up that you know, I wasn't forthright completely, you know, like at first I tried lying about the the the incident and things like that. So you know, was I an honest young man?
You know? No?
I wasn't. Was I prepared to own up for it?
No?
I wasn't straight away? You know, how do I had I been able to have accountability then, which are things I've learned later in life and the hard way, but but having accountabilities could have done me so much more. And you know, just having gratitude that i'd been through the Olympic Games and just you know, and just been thankful that I was able to have had that and then move forward. You know, looking back in hindsight's such a wonderful thing.
But you had to expect of yourself when you're young.
Yeah, But I don't feel any sort of resentment. I don't feel feilthy about what's happened or what's having you know, I'm one hundred percent accountable because like I know more than anyone because I was there. I know what happened, you know, and you know, like you know, was a judge harsh for me? I don't know, like maybe maybe not, but like I have to own it because.
Then you do the time. Yeah, I did the spend eight months eight months.
At Woodford where is that at in Queensland somewhere out there?
Yeah, and howd you do? Time?
It was all right, so inside confronting, you know, I had I had some fights inside because I was young, you know, I was young, and you know, and then to be put in there with like hardened criminals, you know, like I've got I got challenged, you know, you know, being a little guys a challenge. Yeah, this this this little guy out there, he's a fighter.
You know.
At the time, I was Australian champion as well. And you know, I remember having pretty pretty vicious fights in there because I was I was willing back then, you know, you don't think and you're just willing to go on with it. But looking back, I could have killed someone. Yeah,
it was pretty bad. There's even like to the very day, people with their witnesses still speak about the fights that they saw me have in jail, and you know, like one guy's ear was hanging off by a thread, like this is what you have to do to defend yourself.
Because no referee, no referee.
Now you've got a guys one hundred and ten kilos, I'm probably sixty five kilos ringing wet.
You know that sort of guy's challenge.
Yeah, yeah, And I'm up against the wall and I can't even you know, he's just trying to stand over me and own my gloves, and there's what can I do about it? Like, you know, you have to back yourself and just straight away. So I've had to knock this guy out five times whilst and jail, and then he's still kept coming, still kept coming, and I've just I'm stuck. Now I'm up against the wall. He's smashing me. Now he's come back after me and dropped that many times,
and I've got my arm free hook. Hook has kept on hook until his ear was hanging off by over thread and then there's nothing but a pool of blood everywhere. And to this very day, as I said, guys still talk about what they saw that time. But that's something that I had to that's something I had to deal with.
No gloves, no mouth guard, no no.
He I had wrapped on my hands. Actually, I was about to do some bad work, so that helps. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're smiling. I guess you sort of can think back now you're an old and glad I'm not there.
Yeah, oh my god. And what happened after that? So who picked you up? What happened after that? So when you came out, Yeah, you just you wanted to keep the boxing going because you're still the strain champion. Did the boxing, I know, but don't you don't you get not canceled whatever. God, Now they look at your license, they look at that goes on.
So anyway, so that was so, that was so I was the whole time I was there, I was manifesting. You know, I wanted to win a world title. I still had that dream to win a world title and I still had and and you know, I had to work towards that. And then I teamed up with Brendan Smith at that stage. He saw a lot of you know, a lot of potential in me, and I just kept on striving and striving and pushing through and you know,
as I said, I built my record up. But you know, I was hanging out with you know, some you know people that weren't good for my life. They weren't serving me and you know, hanging around the bad crowds basically, And I looked I had a good hard thing to myself, like if I want to win a world title, what do I need to do? Like, there's no there's all these different roads that could have taken. So I just had to back myself. So I booked a one way ticket.
I went to the States. You know it was but I didn't come back for six years.
You could get into you.
No, No, yeah, I could get in. So I was there's some planning in preparation went too that beforehand. So because I got offered fights to go to the States. For first I was fighting at the Playboy mansion and Belaire, Yeah, Hugh Heffner's Playboy mentioned that's where I was fighting. That was my first fight ESPN against Bernaldo Rays. That was
the name of the guy I was fighting. I've gone down to the US Embassy here in Sydney and I've spoken them and they said, look, because of your criminal conviction, you're not going to go to America, and even after five years, but they're not going to let me go. They said, no. That was that was like a real downer time in my life. I just got rejected. So fortunately enough, my lawyer at the time, Damian Arrow, he
was pretty close with Premier Beauty. Of course, you remember the Premier Beauty Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
He made love of sport. Yeah.
He wrote a letter to the US Embassy pretty much condoning that, you know, saying how great a guy was, how hard done by I was in the case, and to give me consideration to you know. So I got a one working p one working visa wow in America, so we already set the go in the fires. But I was still fighting the local network in Australia and still doing things. But so that was already set. So when an opportunity to come up, I could have flown over done on my training here, but by living in Australia,
I was still still it wasn't serving me. I just knew that I had to I had to do something to make it work because I'd seen so I've looked at those around me, others going on my pathway and what they're going to, and there's just nothing there. So I just had to back myself. Had a house, had my family here and everything that with very little money because there's no money in Australian box. I don't care what anyone says. Australia as a whole. That's why I'm
saying about money. And how is that? And he did do it with the boxing, and Green did it early with the boxing. Yeah, they made some decent amount of money, and yes they did make it later on in business, correct. But they're smart guys. The smart guy it's really hard to get ahead. And and you know, I just had to back myself. So I've got whatever I could. I booked a two thousands, I went flew to Sydney. He paid two thousand dollars cash for a ticket, and flew
straight to straight to America on my own. And I rang Brand and I said, I'm in America and I've got I just had to get away. This is what I got to do. And he backed me. He said, yeah, okay, Mick, I'll be right over. I'm coming.
Because you know, he came out.
Yeah, he believed in me, and if he didn't, it wouldn't things wouldn't may not have panned out the way that they did. And so you know, he backed me, and you know, flying over to America and by the time brand. So I stayed at Marina Delray first day, some hotel near the airport, and then a few days
later Brandon come over. We stayed at the Roosevelt Hotel, and then I've gone From the Roosevelt Hotel, we walked out there's a premiere for Rocky five on that On that that same night, we walked out Sylvesta salone shaking the hands and we shook his hand. Wow, Sylvester Sellone is that this is like the first day Brendan arrived and it was a sign, It was a sign made. These things are happening more so than ever now in my life, like signs and and moments and things. And
don't even get me started on that. But there's you know, soul flares released from the sun. There's a different energy just that.
I do you find those those things the universe? Right? Yeah? What do we call it? Do you think that they would be able to account for your resilience and the fact that you said, stuff, I'm going to go to Sydney. Yeah, I'm going to us. If you hadn't got had that mindset, you wouldn't have walked in, You wouldn't have able to meet a silver sloan, which.
Is the thing that gave you a whole to pursue time ago.
Do you think those things that given that you're open to perceiving these things is let's call them signs or gets from the universe or or someone tapping on the should team or to do yep? Do you think there are the things that give you your resilience because you're a resilient bustard, like you've had lots of ups and downs, but you still manage to keep going or is it just you?
Yeah, you can. You can relate this to business success and you know about that. And so it's just about tapping on doors and go this way and you tap on the right thles, you know, And it's just consistency and keeping at it and keeping at it and just going different pathways. And you know you have a plan. You know, I basically had a plan that I need to go to the States and my dream was to win a world title. But I planned, like I couldn't just get on and book a one way ticket to
the States. There was a bit of planning involved in that as well. But if you want something more than you want to breathe, then you're going to achieve it. So then so I left everything in Australia, I committed myself and I just I just got stuck into it. Now. I believe it's you can manifest things. That's a big part of it. I believe that you know what you believe and how much you want something that will determine the outcome. And it's it's not just gonna it's not
just going to happen by magical thing. But it's the want and the will, and there's and there's there are energies, you know, there there are things that make this happen. You know, whether you caught your higher power or you know, so many things that can determine the outcome of certain things. And you know, and then business as well, you know, like you just do the right things and you keep tapping on the doors and you set things up the right way. If you keep at it, you're going to get there.
And how much of the consistency though, like you know, like not only have you got to you know, like follow that path, You've got to you to look for the path. You've got to be open to it. You know, now I'm going to get it. We'll get away from this mob who are so maybe not help me out here doing it. I'm not it's just not good for me. Don't have to make a judgment, but just not good for me. You don't make a judgment bout them, then
I'm gonna I'm going to make the call. I'm going to buy the ticket, I'm going to go to America. I'm going to do all the other stuff in between, going to get the visa and you know something, get topeter beating and make sure I get that that process going. But then it becomes out of effort. There's a lot of effort involved, a lot of driving this ship. Like you've got to keep driving yourself, get yourself up in the morning because it doesn't happen overnight. Where you get
that from that? What you go and work in the concrete his whole.
Yeah, a lot of it's trial and error. You know, you do a lot of trial and error, and then it's easy when you're looking back to say, oh, I wish I did it this way. You know, we should do it that way, but you didn't, you know, but but you know, but by trial and error, and I still had that youth in me. I still had that drive to want to do it. So there's a lot of trial and error, and then I had to cut out a lot of vices. Like there's going to be a lot of noise in your head with like other
things going on. You're like, like, what's happening back at home? What's going on? Who cares? This is what I really want? And sometimes in business or successful boxing people in that business are successful, they seem like they're really rude or ruthless people in that but they all narcissists, so to speak. But like they just they just have a goal. They
have a goal and they're going to be successful. They cut out all the things, the things that are going to be holding them back, like noise, it's just noise and and and that's so that's what I had to do. So i'd go, so training, like your fitness is a prerequisite. You have to be fit, you know, And like that's why I'm developing, Like I'm on the online coaching business now, that's what I'm doing and developing, you know, this bulletproof mindset.
I'm developing the maintenance program. So everything that I was doing back then that got me to the levels that I achieved, I put into a training program. So but I had to do these things every day, every day, all the time, so you know, whilst looking for a place to live in America, you know, and then working out you know, how I was going to make it happen. And so I had like a bit of a team.
I started building a support network around me, and Brandon was a really big part of that, really big part of that, and the booking in this fight, making sure, you know, his main charge was going to be ready and going to be right. So I was just like knew, like say, when you when you if you want to be the best, you got to hang out with the best. You got to associate with the best. So what they do. I went to the wild Card Gym Hollywood, training side
Minnie Paco all the rest. Just walked in there. I I'm from Australia. I've got a record, you know, some of the underfeed record. And I said, okay, you had no worries, so oh, you know, I just started just rubbing shouldals with those guys doing the hard work there. It was all new. It was scary, it was intimidating, But how were I was twenty six? Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was because that's the difference between tomber there. Oh mate, like you just I've call them from now I'm living
in a big smoke. Yeah, just just trying to make my own and I started to actually, if, like I said earlier, if you want to make something more than you want to breathe, then you're going to achieve it. So I started making friends. I started talking to people that, you know, that were like minded, and they could see they could, but they start believing you as well. And you know, when you're as close as to what Brendan and I were, well, he jumped on the flight and
comes straight over. He backed me. He saw that drive like he supported me. But I gave him that drive like he could see that hunger in then what I had. So you know, he's not long after you seen me going in the world card all the time, training all the time, doing all my maintenance broke and doing all this stuff, and it wasn't long. And then he was very close to securing a world total fight at Wembley Arena and in London against Graham Earle. So we had
a decision to make them. So we flew to Brooklyn Gleason's gym in New York and we trained that like it was minor six degrees back then. It was so coold. But they had the most world champions. Like you had like Tyson train out there, you had a to Rour grading train out there. There was a there was a trainer there called Hector. He passed away, but that they were all there, the big names, all the people. And
you walk into this gym. You got some big dudes in there, and you got all these like tough guys. They're like going all the time, spraying like so intimidating, so intimidating. So I ended up securing a fight with the record that I had with secured a fight Wembley, and I went into a training camp and I'm in this gym.
It was an eliminador of toph This is the this is actually for the world title.
So Brendan. So I'd already built up my record in Australia. I built it up, but I just need to get the world tider fight secured. And and Brendan he saw that I was hungry. He did it, He got he got it, you know. He said, look, Michael, he's reading up these promoters of Frank Warren in England and Michaels already he's gone to the States. He's in the train, and look, we're ready to go, you know, you know, you know, we want the fight basically, and so he
we got the fight, and so I did. I put myself through it, and I knew if I was going to beat this guy, I had to be fighting and training makest the best. It was hard. It was hard. It was real hard, like I was training in minor six degrees. I was walking on all these long stairs, all these these subways. You know, have you been in Brooklyn?
Yeah?
Yeah, Jewish community.
It's Maad is it?
Yeah? Yeah? What was his name? Mike? Mike was the owner of the but and so. And you're walking along there and and you walk in there and all this was going on and the movies. Yeah yeah, there's just one Polish guy in there. And he was like pretty much mirror. This is like everything's meant to happen, you know, how many things just a line, it's just aligned. I saw this guy and he was just like a bigger image of the exactly like the guy that was going
to be fighting. And I knew if I spa this guy and I can get over this guy, that's what I need to that's my key, that's what that's what I need to do. Anyway, he was just beating everyone up all the time. It's like a ci as I'm going along, I'm building up confidence. And Brendan goes up to his trainer and says, hey, mate, how you going. You know I was the accent, because we want to see if we can get you some rounds in with your Polish. Boy goes, hmm, you want to spy my boy?
He goes.
He goes, We'll see how you and then brend says he has how many runs? And he says, Brandon said, I was six eight rounds. Okay, we'll see how you go after two like this. So so we got in there and I just walloped this guy. I walloped in first round. The guy couldn't even continue. I had the confidence through the roof, and I knew that I'd done it because I'd done every day I would walk to get there. I done on my training. I sacrificed everything to show I knew how hungry I was. I was prepared.
I was ready. So when we locked in the fight, signed the contract, flew over to the Wembley. Wembley and I was fighting against graham ll. I wanted it so badly, and I remember like it was like, this is the Knights leading up to the fight, and you got all these media, all these commotion going over. There was a really big thing. You had Amy a Kart fighting on the same card. You had Michael Spot fighting Ordley Harrison
back then, big name. It was a big show. I think it was a would have been fifteen thousand people back then. That's a decent. But yeah, ITV was a TV company, and and you know, you have to get your sleep. You're still getting over a bit of jet lag whatever, and the fire alarms are going off the hotel. Yeah, fire alarms are going off. And you know the nights before that, you got your hookers knocking on the door. So I was just them, was like, what what's your chances?
You know, like nights in the ray, the same thing happening, and all these noises and things, and it's the night before the world title fight, and these fire alarms just kept going and going going. I remember saying to myself, I'd rather die in my sleep than knock at a good sleep and lose this fight. That's that was my mentality. I didn't care. I went back to sleep. I remember
it so clearly. But you know, in the back of my mind, I thought I might would have got a curtain and probably slide down the side of the building. I was like if I started smelling smoke or something. But like, I just went to sleep. I just went to sleep, and I had an air of confidence. And you know when it come out to have that fight, Well, you had a fight, so to speak. Having yeah, yeah, and the nerves that you feel. Yeah, imagine if you didn't train, probably imagine if you cut corners.
Sleep probably sleep. Probably you didn't know if I didn't sleep, imagine, yeah, yeah, yeah, because confidence, that just takes that much.
That's that's right, That's what. And that's a mental thing too. Yeah, and and just and it was a bigger event when you got you know, you know, tens of thousands in attendance and millions of views all over the world, and everything you ever dreamed of was just sitting there right there.
About that happen on the line.
Yeah, the how the feeling, the hollow feeling inside when you knew you weren't doing something right but I did it.
Or especially for a perfectionist that yeah, if you're a perfectionist. Yeah, that can fuck you up. Yeah, that thought process. Yeah, and you've got to it's a bit like not an out of go See how did you control yourself then? So so like let's let's in the room. That's okay, that's not too bad. Do you walk out, get up? But during the corner, now you're on your own. Now no one's rabbing your hands. You were standing there ready for the reft.
Call you in.
So how do you control your his energy or that?
It doesn't just happen on a spot. It just took time I practice, and so like i'd have ment what do you do the mental preparation, meditation, talking, self talk, and I was doing a lot of visualization, visualizing, like the same thing I learned that the US Olympic Training Center, all my lessons along the road, the sparring that I did. I can't remember the spar that I did with the Polish guy at the Gleason's gym. I had that. I had it all in check and I already knew it.
And if he does this, this happens. You know, boxing can be somenpredictable. You can't ever say, if he does this, I'm going to do exactly that it's just a numbers game. It's like business also, like it's a bit of a numbers game. Youre, ok, Okay, this didn't work so many times. This is going to be a far better result if I go this way instead of doing this and have to eliminate this and then get the answer this quickly.
But it's already calculated. You already got it in your mind because you've done it over and over and over and over and over again so many times, and you built it up. You haven't just like wanted is just a want and wish thing. You put the work in and the drive and the dedication.
I mean, really what you and what you're talking about here, Michae Liz. Preparation, Yes, I mean that's pretty fundamentally yes, yes, like preparation. Yes, it's all those things.
Yep.
That's how you control yourself. You don't walk in there not ready to control yourself because you're already in control. You've controlled yourself through your prep because then everything's about preparation, right, ship, what is business or sport?
Lit?
All business?
It is?
Your business is boxing, Yes, that's right, you know, like his business is producing a shop. It's about his preparation, Like your preparation, you know how to deal deal with it, and you went on to win that fight. Well I did.
But when I've walked out for that fight, that's the feeling that I'm getting to is like like, You've got all these people like bo like this because they're all for their guy totally and and you go the crowd yeah yeah, but I was like, like, the well this guy, like I was gonna Charlado kets. You know, it's just common says I'm going to be fighting that only one guy doesn't bother me. It's all just so it's just
who cares noise. I'm used to all that. So I've got my helmet on, my Greek helmet, my worry helmet, and I'm and I'm walking out really really slowly, really confident, stopped for a bit, and I stare at them all a bit, and I walk a little bit more, three or four more steps, and I stare them at all again a bit more. So I knew I had this and I just couldn't wait. I couldn't wait. You know, I've got in there and it's got the fight of the year, he got the round of the decade. It's
the fourth round. I've dropped the guy twice. I even put a cheeky five ground on myself to knock him out in the first round at forty two to one. I didn't get up, but anyway, you know, it was one of them fights, and you know, and then it got to the third round of the fight and I've dropped him once and I've gone in to finish the guy, and you know what it is like with boxing, if you one little mistake, you go through your right hand and your left hand sitting down too low. Bang, I
copped it and the guys dropped me right. So it's just turned the whole crowd. It was so frantic. There's no standing eight counts with the WBO commission, and the referee applied to standing. Let's just give you an idea of the referee, Mickey Ward. He was Mick Mickey Van.
Sorry, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Mickey Van was the referee. Yeah, but he was so he was like a very veteran referee, you know, he was just that frantic that he applied to stay in a cant you don't do that. But anyway, still the guy a bit more time to recover. Long end of the short I've recovered and and you know, through the most amount of punches training in the round that round four of that fight, and it was just like an all out bloody war. And I won the world title. You know, the titles went through the roof. It was
the happiest day of my life. It's just yeah, it was second to none.
We won't have time to talk about all your defenses and because you have stack of fights, but there was one thing I do want to talk about, and so I think it's important to me. He established right the very beginning the close bond between you and your mum and your dad yep, but also your brother Staffy yep. And unfortunately before one of your bigger fights, you your brother. You lost your brother. Can you tell me through that?
So yeah, I I built my record up. I've got these big fights. So then I've I've gone from this kid intomba, too scared to even throw a punch, to fighting. It's the pound for pound best fighter in the world. One man your Markers he knocked out MANI pack like those are no box will know who One man your Markets was one of the pound for pound best fighters in the world. Like he fought Maywether. He's everything for everyone.
And you know, it was such a big fight. It was a megastar fight, and I was preparing for the fight, so I I used to going to twelve week or eight week training camps in Thailand. My name was so big in the States that I could I couldn't go anywhere on me anywhere, so big that the paparazzi and like people were infiltrating now training and trying to get Brendan's here all the time. He joined me all the way. And I was in camping Thailand, and I've I've got
a phone call, you know it. It was Brandon and he said, Mick, get on your motorbike, meet me at the gym. This is three weeks out. So I'm fighting the pound pound champion of the world in three weeks time. In training camping Thailand. I'm fighting him in the bright lights at the MGM Graham Las Vegas. And I thought, okay, and I turned my phone off. I looked at my phone was going off. It had like hundreds of messages
and miss calls and and whatever. And I've got in there and I saw Brandan, and as soon as I saw his face, I said something's happened, hasn't And he said, yeah, it's your brother. He's gone. He died then, you know, to have that happen. I just spoke to my brother the night before for like an hour and a half. Was probably one of the best conversations we had in our entire life. Speaking after this fight, We're going to get our kids, we're going to meet together, we're going
to go on holidays. And you know, he died from a drug overdose and accidental. Yeah, it was an accident. How it happened. You know, there's a bit of negligence involved in things like that. But I decided not to focus on that, decided to move forward in my life. And we had had a decision then to tie the fight, take the fight, and go ahead and fight oneman, your markets all recover and for me, you know, in my head, I did what I thought my brother would have wanted.
In hindsight, he's not with us now. He wasn't with me then.
You know.
But I was a disillusion that he was right on my shoulder telling me to go ahead and have the fight and missed my That was very mental, strong, personal emotional thing.
Yeah, which is the wrong reason.
To fight emotional, he's giving and giving energy. It took a lot out of me. And the key thing with that fight, like the media. I couldn't talk to the media, so they'd always mentioned my brother's name, so they put a media band mentioned in my brother's name. Because I just couldn't stop crying. I didn't have anything the masket. I had a drug test. I had a you couldn't can't drink alcohol, Like that's what people do. They drink alcohol, They take drugs when they want to master the paint.
And I couldn't stop it. I couldn't stop the crying, you know, and then then then you know, hindsight, it's a wonderful thing. But I've dropped Marquez. I dropped him. He was down, he was gone, and all I had to do was jumping and do what I did with every other fight and finish the guy. I didn't do that. I was listening to the noise and I could hear the commentator saying, and he's thinking of his brother. And for the first time in my life, I've hesitated when
going to finish an opponent. That two or three seconds would have given him time for him the balance his equivalent equivalent it would equally thinking and I just and I didn't do it. And then next you know, he's come back and he stopped me around nine. I got a throat punching round nine and just my legs weren't there like they should have been. I wasn't sleeping in the preparation, as we know, sleep so so so important.
I because I was trying to go over how he died every night in my head and just thinking about all the things growing up, brighting these brumberies and through the graveyard, and you know how he you know, he was riding in the favorite in a week's time. He's riding the favorite in the Melbourne Cup. He was on shootout in a week after he died. He was he was to be riding shootout in the Melbourne Cup. Who was the favorite? Who would have won? His time road
for Alesca staff. He wasn't on. His connection with every horse was it was something else. He's like the horse whisper.
And you know in hindsight that Michael, if you if you look back on it, and you know, because we talked about preparations, the preparation of the week leading up to the big event. In hindsight, if you were talking to another fighter, or just a business person bad to do a big meeting, or a swimmer, what would your advice.
Be, don't do it, don't do it, don't go ahead, because yeah, you don't, because if you can't put your best foot forward, don't put any foot forward, or you need to come up with a strategy like something that you can say, or you can just be honest.
In my case is being honest. Would have been the best dancer. Your brother just died, your only brother just died. There's nothing wrong with that fighting, that's right.
And.
You know, but what is it with fighters? I make just yeah, we got that, well, we've got that determination, We've got it.
I'll be right. Yeah, yeah I'm ready. Yeah, but really, I mean, like a proper judicious thought process about what it takes to be ready rarely gets done until you mature and become a lot older and you've experienced a loss like that.
Yeah, that's right. And and then the things that I needed to maintain being that fighter stopped. Like I wasn't sleeping properly for that fight. I was, and I was listening to what the commentators saying as opposed to doing what I had to do. Then that went on. Excuse me, I didn't. I didn't apply any of the mental stuff. You can just imagine my life was a mess. I didn't apply any of the principles that I had. I didn't
have that that bulletproof mindset. I didn't. I wasn't using that andre and I just my style of all out attack. That's all I had. You know, when when you're in business, mark, you know, you guys have a whole team of executives working out a strategy. Correct. Yeah, I was on my own, but they're all out attack. And then that was only going to last for so long. It's all out of tax style. I didn't. I didn't step back and have someone, hey, look, you need to start doing this doing this. You know,
I went my own way. I went went wild. I'd go to do investing in something else, and I'd buy this house and that property, and I'd do this, and I changed my mind a thousand times. And you know, I got on a plane to get to England to fight against Ricky Burns, and I was too drunk to even get on the plane. You know, I couldn't go daid. Yeah, I couldn't go day without drinking or taking drugs. It's
just it's become my spiral, and bye bye. By taking that fight, I procrastinated and prolonged the pain of losing my brother, and then this this addiction and this mental you know, this drinking would go on for someone so many years, and then eventually, you know, I'd go into recovery, and then I'd come out of recovery and I'd have all these great ideas, have great connections, great people.
You know.
I don't know why I haven't been talking to you sooner, but i'd tell you why. It's because my head was in a cloud of fog. I didn't even know. I didn't know what Arthur from Martha. I couldn't have told you what day it was, you know. And here I sit and funnier today, thankful because I got locked up for two years. I got out seven months ago. And when I was the first day sitting in there, unlike the first time I went to jail, I said to myself,
how fucking great is this? You know? For me? I had gratitude because I knew that this is it for me. I knew that I had to come out the other end. I was in there, I saw a lot of things relating. I related to a lot of the other prisoners that were in jail. They suffered sexual abuse, they suffered from addiction, and stuffered from all sorts of trauma, domestic violence, poverty. I could relate to a lot of these things that
these guys were suffering from. You. I had my own little narcotics anonymous group in there, and you've got like twenty prisons sitting at a table. The prison wardens would come home and go, what's going on here? Like groups
of prisons sitting together at one time. Oh, so we're just talking about our feelings, you know, and we'd all be sitting there, we'd be having our morning share about you know, we know, our daily inventory about how we're feeling, what's going on inside the head and dealing with the emotions and dealing with what was going on, and you know, men becoming vulnerable and talking about things. So it started, you know, you know that that was my plan, like
just start starting from there and helping these guys. And that helped me by helping others. And the best way to keep something was by giving it away as what I learned, and it just went on being generous.
Yeah, yeah, now where are you at with it all.
So moving forward, moving forward, so you know, because like you know, I've had two years and eight months. You know, I haven't touched a drink, haven't touched a drug.
I have, yeah, but do you feel as though you want it? Or you're not even interested?
Not even interested? And because I have this will to succeed, all I've got to do is apply the same principles that I did with my boxing and when I when I first went to the States, and when you want something more than you want to breathe like I am now, it doesn't even become an option. Why would you? Why would you? I've just been there, I've been in jail for two years. It's it's it's it's a no brainer for me.
And Joe was probably easy. I don't know it need to be easy relative to the ship life you were leading prior to that, the drinks, the drugs, you know, like bouncing and out of joints, not really fighting properly. You'd never been properly prepared, never being happy with yourself. Maybe Joe gave you an opportunity to deal with all this stuff.
And it's it's really really sad, but unfortunately that I needed it because I was. I was, I was, you know, with the law, you know, like I would go into recovery for just long enough. I was doing all the programs. I hadn't dealt with my trauma. And you have to. You have to. You can't be drunk and dealing with your trauma. You can't be high and dealing with your trauma. And I don't care who these like, who you are.
And some people are business people. They think they can get away with having a line and co cod things and think I'm going to be better today. It's not. It's not. You know, there's different ways of dealing with things, and that they can be a far better self without doing doing that need these other habits and vices and things, and these are the same principles. And I know this because I've been there and I've done it, and I've been able to say I've won the world title. I've
been in jail. And it's a simple choice.
So the world title that you're winning, your going now is against yourself. I want to be the world I want to be Michael, Yeah, world title against the guy is not going to get the world title? Yeah yeah? And so what to where to from here? Mate, what's going to happen?
So what do you see?
Your your what is what's your calling? What's the universe telling you?
So I'm developing a program called the Bulletproof Mindset and so based these people can have the best version of themselves. So I've got my Instagram page and what is Michael Underscore cat Theaters And there's all the information on the Bulletproof Mindset. So you know, for example, like you could spend hours talking to I'm really excited about this because we've got as part of our team, were having an industrial psychologist Samantha Vox and uh and we have a
whole team of people. But we're developing this. So it's like they could talk to you, you know, for hours and hours. You can speak a psychologist for ours and psychologists for hours and learn about learn about you know, your your life and where it's taken you and how it's gone away that's going They could say, look, Mark, if you keep doing this, you keep being like this is steeple like this, your life is going to be
like this is going to be like that, right. But they have this scan that they do with doctor Daniels is part of the team, and the scan on your brain. They can say this is without even talking to you, this is where your life's scoring. This is what you've done basically rundown and if you can't continuing like this
is what's going to happened with your life. So this is one of the part of the things that we're developed with a bulletproof mindset, getting this scan done on you on your on the starting point as a starting point. And then we've got a team of coaches that were develop and help help people decipher it and give them the best road for them to take and in the future. So that's that's that's still developing at the moment, and
all the information is available on my Instagram. But the World Championship Maintenance Program the same stuff that I did and maintain doing when I was in the States and throughout my career when I helped me reach my peak and the maximum results. So I got I formed this program.
This is training alongside many pakyo and and all the big things like I learned, I watched, I observed, and everything that I did over the years, I picked up this set secrets of moves that I do and I've got them more for free that I give them the people so they can get maximums. I caught the World Championship program and yeah, people question.
Yeah, and that because your ability to reinvent yourself. But then, but you're reinventing yourself, but you're also pulling on those things that have always worked for you in terms of a mindset, your mindset and structure, discipline and rules, things that work. Okay, that's brilliant. Do you think if you had a you know, if you took yourself out of the nineties and two thousand, two thousands and put yourself into today, would you have ever been a UFC guy?
Would you? Oh, do you think you would have ever afought in the UFC? You know, would you?
Would you hear me? Yeah? Definitely, definitely.
Yeah. Do you watch UFC?
Yeah, I don't mind it. I don't I can't remember the names of the of the like the big ones I'll see and like just the thing that I've always seen, like with the kicking sports and grappling and all that sort of stuff. There's so many different elements in these sports, so many different elements, and it can be much like a street fight. But once you get to know the sport a bit more, there is a science to it. Yeah, like and you can appreciate that now. So that's why
I've always like boxing. It's like mano or mano, man against man and there's a science to it and you can work out and it's a real it's a real strategy. So that's also now been worked into the UFC and it's exciting. Right. Do you do boxing on us more.
In terms of practice or watching? I practice. I don't box anymore because I'm too old to get it in there, but I do jiu jitsu.
Yeah, yeah, cool.
I've enjoyed that Larry Pops up here up here in the cross. But I love watching Volkan Volkovsky for example. Yeah, I love watching volk you know. And they're decent boxes, decent wrestlers, are decent everything. I mean, they're tough bastards. I mean, you know, it's there's no referee is not pulling anyone off. I'm going to tell you're dead and tell you tapping out here, you're done. It's sort of it's there's it's a little bit more brutal than boxing, boxing,
more art, a lot more art involved. Um, unless you were you just going into just questioning no matter what. Yeah, and Jeff was like that. Jeff was always in your face. Yeah, never, never, never, never, it was back that's right. Yeah, that's about fitness.
Yeah, it is a lot of it's about fitness, and you know that's a prerequisite though then you would have the hunger. Then when you want something so much, then you know you can force your will upon your opponent and you can beat them that way, and you can't actually put the fear of life into them and do it that way. You know, but the all out attack will only last for so long. You know that comes to a point in your life as you get older,
you need to come up with another strategy. If you're dealing with so many other back noise and other things going on in your life, whether business or boxing or fighting, and you'll see like you're not going to be able to come up with a strategy if you can't step back and breathe and have a look at what's going on. You need to be able to assess and you need to listen to your team. You got, you can reach out to the support. You know you can do those things if.
Someone like you, you know you've made if you and if you and I sat down worked out how many years you fought, not just in the ring, I mean like sparred. How many sparks as she did? How many times you got hit in the head. You're pretty good, You're okay, you're not affected.
Yeah, your memory is really good.
You're remembering things that happened eleven Yeah, yeah, thanks, remember names of people.
Thanks.
So you've you've hung in there pretty well. And there's a lot of talk around these days about context boards.
Yeah, about specially cat.
Boxing and how it affects people, you know, dementia, blah blah blah. You're in pretty good shape.
Yeah, all right, thanks think about that.
Yeah.
Oh yeah, of course I've had a scare before, so.
I had I soon record. You had a bit discovering, that's right.
No, but I had a broken eye socket in two thousand and nine, which I forgot to tell. But I'm forgetful. My dad's forgetful when he was in a boxer. So, but I had a brain scan two thousand and nine after I got a broken eye socket against Inside's cabido August seventeen, two thousand and nine, and that that that brain scan, the broken eye socket distorted the anatomy of
the scan. So so then when I actually had the scan but forgot that and showed it to the doctor Johnny Lewis's doctor who was training me here in Sydney. And the doctor, the doctor John I think his name was, I forgot the was no Johnny Lewis was it was no, No, not that, not that John No doctor, No, it wasn't that Johnny. I love him. Yeah yeah, but so yeah, yeah, yeah, he didn't see that. So but from what he could see it was there was no go sign, you know,
because the scarring stored the anatomy. So then I went on to get another scan which which went further into to my brain to see and it was just the scarring from the eye socket the broken which disored it. So so I'm in the clear, you know. In the lead up to my court things going on. When when I had the problems, the judge said I have three months to sort treatment for my addiction to drugs and alcohol and then three months to get a brain scan done.
So when I got the brain scan done, I found out that my brain was healthy as if not healthier than the average man my age. So then my my reservation is about about actually metally abolished. Then I just I just knew that all you've got to do is stay healthy. Do is look after yourself. Well, you know, give yourself the time of day, eat right, sleep, exercise. You have problems percific please see a doctor is yeah.
And also it also don't have a company locate your life with stupid stuff.
Keep a simple stupid Yeah, just keep us.
It's back and simple. And again because often we complicated ouralyves with things where we compromise ourselves, compromise our values, and that can fuck you. Yeah, because you get guilty, you know, sleep properly, yeah, sort of, you know, you feel bad about the ship you're doing, and it's just you know, like there's enough things in our lives to give us stress as it is. You don't need any
more stress run around your system, you know. And I think what you're doing, Michaels is inspirational to other not just fighters, sports people, but inspirational to people who I think they've they've got a tough gig. Yeah.
Yeah, and really it's.
Not that tough at the end of the day, and we have responsibility.
Well I want to that's what I want, Thank you, because I want to empower other people. That's like part of my mission. Now I want to look at what I did. Like you know what when you started boxing and like and the more you got better at it, you realize it's not rocket science. It's just you know, why didn't I think of that. It's like it becomes like a real challenge to here and then you start mastering the art of it and that and that's the
same principles on pass on. You know, I want my boxing course, my my my can see this blueprint boxing system. I want that to be the best fundamental boxing program in the world so people can learn and they can know so basic and the things you know, because when you're talking about looking after your mind, and you know that bit of training, that boxing training you do is looking after yourself. I think that. I think that just taking that time out for yourself and just focusing on
on throwing the punch correctly and then exerting it. So is a form of meditation. So to speak to you because you're not thinking about what's happening on down the road or there's other stuff that you.
Can't Yeah, you can't, or you're going to copy it right, Yeah, And how much of And to find a question though, Michael, how much of it is is your cat see this program your blueprint about not getting hit. It's as opposed to just run. Yeah you used to yeh, you were always be to cop it, right, Yeah, how much is it about?
It's the number one that it's my number one thing, the key thing always so so when you punch, When you throw a punch, the fastest point from A to B is from A to B.
Sure is distance, yeah yeah, but so.
Many times people go all right, I'm going to punch, now here is a B, C, D E not a B, you know? Or they go to this one, this one, I'm gonna hit you with this. No one's going to keep the head still to cop the punch. So emphasize on just basic fundamentals and things so so people get it so they can get it. Doesn't matter who you are all over the world. You can get it, and you can do it, and you can see it work, and then you know straight away if it's not working.
I get them to center video of themselves back so they can get many young kids.
Many young kids are still in the fight game, Like I'm still a patron here, Willow. Yeah, but we don't get many kids in there anymore. Boxing get a few girls. We get a few girls, and that day is pretty good if we get a lot of kids down there. But like generally speaking, not not like it used to be. Like I think.
Boxing is great, you know, and you know you're right, you know, there's not.
A lot getting more girls though.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Women's sport is picking up, you know, like it's and women are naturally more aggressive than guys, as you probably know they are. And they're tough too, yeah, tough airs.
Yeah, it's pretty And by the way, I think it's pretty amazing that I got to sit in front of Micout Sieges. Thank you, I really appreciate, mate. And from one boxing fan to another boxing fan now and from one Greek to another Greek, well done.
Mate, Thank you mate.
Good You're welcome.