#151: Nathan & Ivan Cleary reflect on the Penrith Panthers' Legendary 4-Peat

Hi, my Boris, and this is straight talk. Wow, I have under Nathan theory. We welcome straight to a Boys. Thanks for having us. Thanks Mark good Seed mate. Now you see each other aftergrad one two years ago. I think miss three.

That was after the first one. You said you couldn't believe it actually one one, so might take back?

Is there a secret?

Not that you get secret.

I wouldn't tell you that.

I'm a big gliver in just preparation giving me confidence. Always got doubts coming in. But if I prepared the way I wanted to, then I get to gamed down. I've got no excuses. I just got to a point where if we hadn't have succeeded in the twenty twenty season, I would have left the game.

So actually, what's interesting met Lebron Janes and his son they played together. I mean it wasn't there wasn't much in it a couple of years. Wow, I haven't er Nathan theory. You were went straight to a boys. Thanks for having us, Thanks Mark good Seed mate. Again you see each other after Grand Final two years ago. I think I missed last year three. That was after the first one. But the first one was it? Yeah?

It was you said you couldn't believe it actually won one.

So well, I have to say thanks for coming to likes this only a couple of days after the Grand Final and one of my major Both still stand up, or at least Nathan will still stand up.

Yeah, it's been a tough couple of days. She sore heads, but feeling pretty good now and you're happy to be here and sort of reminiscent.

Yeah, it's well, I guess congratulations mostant. There's pretty obvious, but I think that's I just be great if you could talk us through, Nathan, if you could just talk through what what does it mean? Not mean to win the Grand Final, but what does it mean to celebrate post Grand final? Many people we've ever experienced even go to the fan day that not many people ever get to do that. Some clubs in the young person's lifetime River actually win a Grand Final. You guys have won four.

It's well yesterday, so usually we do the fan day the day after the Grand Final, and like everyone's just in the worst state. So this year we changed it. We did it yesterday instead had a little went on stage and saw all that and then we just signed jerseys for about six hours. So it's that part of it is like, yeah, it's tough when everyone's hung over and all that, but the few days following the game is like it's just euphoric, like surreal feeling.

Like a blur too, I guess, honestly, Yeah, it is.

One of the coolest things we did this year was went straight back to the Leagues Club and it's the busiest I've ever seen the Leagues Club. But you couldn't see any part of the ground, just just people everywhere going crazy. So that part of it was, yeah, it was amazing to sort of share that and feel what it's like for people at pen to experience another Grand Final win. And yeah, it's it's an amazing feeling.

It's sort of like just some extent, you guys are sort of keep the community together a little bit, like there's something everybody hangs out for him in not just Pendrith, but the whole area that that your club encompasses. There's a little bit of a responsibility for you to some extent, like extra pressure, not just with your teammates family in case of you Tube, But I mean who carries that responsibility do you?

Yeah, definitely it is a responsibility than one that we take really seriously and drives us. Like I keep hearing stories about people that you know, they've got kids, are six seven years old, and they only know of us winning Grand Viinals. So it's just yeah, it's just it's just amazing, you know, and it's just so good to see to be able to have that ability to make so many people so happy, you know, it's just yeah, it's crazy. But that one that certainly drives us.

But that the flip side of it is merely obligation to some extent. I mean, like you might feel just as disappointed for the fans, like in a real sense of disappointment for them.

Yeah, But the thing is that we don't. It's not all about winning for them. We just want to you know, we want to just make them proud of us or make them proud of themselves. So that's that's the main thing that drives us, and that's more than winning. So I think as long as you know, we're playing and acting in a certain way that they makes them proud, then that'll be enough.

I can't believe both of you. By the way, I just I'm just sitting here. What the fuck too clear, It's it's pretty mad like there's all these levels of responsibility, and but I'm mean by that, and I'm not trying to turn this into away from being a great celebration, but but I think it's important to talk about this sort of stuff. There's all these levels of responsibility. There's you as a son, you as the father, you as

Yeah, I think I've honestly never really thought about it the way you just described it. I think if I was thinking of it like that, it's probably adds a lot more pressure. But in the moment, it's honestly just playing for my teammates. You want you want them to be happy and playing for just the club as a whole, and you just want to be successful. You want that feeling of winning, and what comes with that is the repercussions of keeping everyone happy. It keeps the community happy.

I haven't win it with the players because you know, you're the sort of you're the leader in the group in terms of coaching. He's leader on the field, but you're a leader every other moment of it. And you've got to make sure that young fellas don't think too much about these things. They're going to distract them, especially on the day. But at the same time, you'd be probably fully aware of all those layers that I just went through with you.

Yeah, I think that's part of leadership, is absorbing pressure and you know, I mean things like that, like I actually thought about it. This year, we had a we had a new major sponsor in my place, and because of the success you have, as you know, and all of a sudden, the commercial reality of that is that whoever wants to sponsor you have to pay more. And I'm thinking, is you know, a new sponsor had the old one had been there for ten years and he was doing these ads and I spent all this money.

I mean, someone who'd be listening to just watching this now, and anybody who looks at Nathan's just around page. Anybody watches him play in kick field goals and you know, we set up try to score tries under pressure like last year's year fourth Grand Final, and and then they look at you sitting here now and you're as cool as a Cooper mother. But your has always been the cool. He's always been cool. I've always been cool. He has like who tells me that nobody has just been cool?

It well, I reckon that you can talk to you about just being being happy with how he's prepared. I reckon you tell a story about that. Personally, Like, I've always hid my emotions mainly, so you mentioned a bit about doing that, which there's a balance between being vulnerable as well, and I've learned that over these too, to be able to actually show, particularly your players and the staff that yeah, you aren't perfect and you do get nervous and fail and all that kind of stuff. So

Yeah, that's all got something to learn about that, by the way, And what do you do.

Yeah, I'm a big believer in just preparation giving me confidence. I've definitely always got doubts coming in, but I'll consiumind myself that if I prepared the way I've wanted to, then I get to game down, I've got no excuses.

Sort of like maybe this is a good maybe a good point to talk about this. You remember Freddie is Freddy was always in a nature natural things like you know, like well, not always, but he became that way, you know, like get your shoes off, go on the grass. You've had him in origin if you so you know what he's like. And but Freddie was always happy to be vulnerable. I actually don't know if he has any emotions, but like, but like you know, I mean like he And do

Yeah. Yes, and now I sort of was a fair bit deliberate about it as well. It was probably about five years ago when I first came back to Panthers. I was struggling mentally, and I'd learned over time to actually share things with my wife too, because I wasn't always doing that. So that was a journey that we took together where I started at least, you know, I would I would be vulnerable with her about things that I was, you know, where I was doubtful or of

Interesting because you're not a bit similar to Robbo and some re scs don't You're not a big gaff, you know, getting on. They're talking a whole lot of stuff in front of the media, and you know, you're pretty reserved. You're economical with your words probably the way of saying it. But at the same time, that doesn't mean that you're not prepared to show how you feel in relation to other people and you particularly the people around you, your

It's definitely different. I was fortunate enough to spend a few years playing in New Zealand, yeah, and then coaching over this so I lived there for ten years. So I learned a lot about the Polynesian culture over there from like the late nineties, you know, when I left to go there, you know, playing in Sydney Rugby League in those days, it was just there was nowhere near the Polynesian elements. So I learned a lot about culture.

And yeah, a little bit shyly.

Yeah, there's real there's actually quite a big, big difference where when they're all together in family, they all kind of acts look like they all look the same, but when they're in different settings they can inadapt, they can be a bit different. But I'll tell you one of they are a lot of fun generally speaking. They they love the fun part. So if you try and make it too serious all the time, just won't wet work. So you've got to you got to let them do themselves, I think. Anyway, Yeah, we.

Might just talk about a couple of the boys in the club and the team. I mean, you're going to miss some of your your great your mates fisharers Jerome Law Obviously I've seen I've been watching a posts, look at reading those and you know that you're putting up some special photographs of those two in particular. How much of their culture, No, I'm not just talking about Pacific Islander culture, but I'm just talking about their culture from Pacific Island families, but also growing up in the West.

Yeah, a lot of it. Some of my best mates finders or fishing Moldy as well, and just the energy they bring is saying that is unrivaled, really, and I think they've had a big influence on our culture and building that and that sort of touches on the fun side of it, but also when it's time to work, we're working, and Fishes as the main leader of that.

I read something that I think it was Jerome Lewis said it that he actually think about his little kid and ty Hoose little boy, like actually being the next generation of to be to beat the four four wins. They're saying they're going to They're going to beat it. I mean that's pretty cool, Like yeah, yeah, but and they're actually sort of passing that legacy onto their families. Like I'd never heard of that sort of stuff before, Like in the clubs that I've ever been involved with.

I hadn't really thought about it until you just said that. But that's the fact that Rami and Vizra talking about that, that doesn't surprise me. That's pretty cool.

Yeah, there he was. I'm pretty sure. Yeah, it was Jerune one thing.

I know, like life goes pretty fast, yeah, I mean, yeah, we've been in the Penwrith area as a family for twelve years now. Wow, Nathan was fourteen when we came and just to be sitting in now having true what we have is just mind blowing. You know. It's just twelve years gone like that. So yeah, I guess it won't be too long before it became Ramy's little Lizzie. Yeah, he just graves before it's our eyes. But he's a very talented little kid too, so already there's every chance he will be.

So I need to know from you, like, how do you do it? Like, I mean, it's it's a big question to get it, but you know, you lost a couple of players last year, you lost a couple players before you just keep I don't know whether is it because you've got a good nursery of people out there? What's is there a secret?

Not that I wouldn't tell you that we have. Yeah, well, I think we we have a great club for starters. It's very well aligned from the very top, you know, through management on the board and all our coaching staff, all the way through the players. You know. And that's easy to say, but it's harder to do, you know, And that's probably our greatest strength of the club. So assistance we have in place respected by everyone and then they followed. We do have a great nursery of players

Like for like you know, I've got to be a kid going and yeah quite like yah, and there's burden before that is yeah, like it's just been unbelievable, so anymore like but you know what we do have is we have an incredible leaders in our team led by nat and as a l and still have a lot of talent on our team. But we you know, each year these boys grow together, the chemistry the ones that

We don't. We never live in the past, and to this point it's it's where for us. But we also know that you know it could you know, if you don't keep behind on the ball, it can change quickly.

So but a bit of you but you always and you know, you know the roster obviously, you know the roster. You know the salary cap, you know which you can and can't fit, you know who's kind of for renewal, et cetera. Are you do you do you actually sit back and plan with a team or is it ivan clear? He does it like a kid who's in seventeen. He's looking pretty good. He's in the news Origin team or with Queensland Origins, wherever it is. He's coming through the process.

Yeah, there's definitely that sort of stuff going on. It just sometimes it depends because it comes a bit quicker than you think. You know, we never really wanted, you know, anticipated guys like you know, Stephen Crin and Spencelania to leave. But once a yeah, we've been fortunate enough to you know, we've basically had a year to at least try and plan for those guys and they've all stayed that extra year and played really well. We're always, you know, in

He had one young fellow something like Almhi for example, do you when he comes across do you sort of look at him? When he looked at his videos of his past previous games and sort of say, Okay, I can improve you by doing these these things, or is it just improved by Birch or being in a side like this?

Just it depends. I mean, for Paul ELMONTI Paul was he's only twenty now, so he's nineteen years old to start as a junior. I was actually wondering what there must be something wrong with him, the fact that he's that we can actually sign him while the Dogs are let him go. But I guess they were just on a bit of a different track looking for quicker success. Maybe i'd I don't know, but so I met him. You know, it's just one He's got to fit, you know,

What does that mean?

I just want to get We want to get good characters of people who are going to fit our values, and not just good players, but good people who are going to train hard. They're going to be able to be able to play the way we'd like to. They've got to be fit enough and all that kind of stuff.

But do you actually set a set of values for the club for.

The well said I originally set the culture, but the players have set the values.

Yeah, but they actually write them down some respect, you know, is it virtue?

Yeah, that it was important. The players came up and we do it each and every year. We'll revisit them so if we have to adjust them or whatever.

And then when someone comes in, like a new player comes into the club, would you sort of sit them down and say, meet the senior senior members of the team, the team and or and who takes us through these values? Dude, this is what we expect. How do you play the game?

Leak? Yeah, that's it's not as formal as that, but it's definitely. Yeah. They find out pretty quick what what's required. That's again, we have an amazing staff, but the players themselves, we have an incredible leadership group. And now in our team, you know, I've never seen anything like I've been lucky enough to be involved in anything like it. A lot of them have come through together, so that helps. And

When I when I I'm obviously watching the game and the energy in the momentum that comes with energy. Especially in the second part of the second half on the weekend, it just looked like Benrith was ten years younger. And I don't mean that in a bad way. I just mean that you guys look like younger, keener, more enthusiastic. I guess when Melbourne's try was just deflated him a bit, but you just you knew how to take advantage of that. You knew how to sort of keep the momentum that's

Yeah.

Usually I think it's more like your eyes just like a feel thing. It's probably not saying that we speak about too often on the field, but particularly people with the spy and the ladder sort of accelerate and go towards that. I think that's saying that we've been quite lucky to have over these last few years. It sort of feels like we've got gears and us that.

Look like to me, you can go on the gear and probably had one or two in Yeah.

And that's the thing. It's probably been a bit frustrated this year that like we've always sort of been like hanging in games and then once we get pushed, then we were retaliated. We're like, all right, now we'll go up a gear. We haven't really blown away teams this year.

She did in the in the first preliminary semi against the r That was the best game, you guys I had for a long time.

We knew we need to get.

The last game of the Blue Belt. I was out there and god, I just wish enjoy it. No, I didn't enjoy it all. I wasn't sure what to wear, so but someone said, don't wear your suit. But it was actually great. It was a great atmosphere. It was rugby league what it used to be when I was a kid growing up. That's what it feels like to me. It was just everyone's into it. I mean there's a pretty hostile crowd to be in front of.

Yeah, they love playing the east Man.

You know, Well, it's just like going down to Melbourne. I guess it's the same feeling. But you guys actually did kick into a big That was a big gear change, and then I think every game you played after that was a new gear. It looked like that. And then even in the Grand Final, you look like you just kept increasing the gear, kept saying, Okay, well you're going to match me. I'll go this way. You're gonna match me, I'm gonna go this way. That's what it felt like

Yeah, and again like that, I think you fall back to your training and also experience, and I think all of those as you're sort of talking about that all comes from our training. It's something we talk about our training constantly. The hard work we're put in. We know that it's going to pay us back when we need it.

I'm going to give you. I'm a big rap here, but I and tell me if I'm wrong. The rap you deserve, but obviously you deserve it, But tell me if what I was thinking is wrong. So someone said to me the other day, ah, you know, just before the game, Bellamy is a genius blah blah blah, and he is. He's a great coach. Billy is a great coach. And I said, well, you know what's interesting, I think Cray Greg Bellamy looks for weaknesses and teams and exploits weakness.

I don't know it was that deliverate, But what I will say is if you look at the Melbourne style, not a lot of weakness, so I couldn't sort of find find weakness in them. So yeah, you're probably right. You end up spending more time, you know, on your own team, which I think we do it most of the time. There'll be some games throughout the year there might be a team that's littered with injuries or down on form or or whatever, where it's a bit easier

But do you sort of say to yourself, having Hourison's quick, we don't give him space, do.

You go through those processes that were yeah, well, well we'll generally talk about, you know, the opposition, where they what their strengths are, how they like to play, you know, if they got a certain style or whatever, and a lot of spend a lot of time on that. Each and every guy knows the players they're up against them

Of getting you to peak at the right time too.

Yeah you did mention this is this is not really it wasn't really a plan. But we hit the finals in fairly average form. I'd say, we're actually just trying to give you the roosters a false sense of hopeful did but like, yeah, I just I think the boys knew that, they just knew we had nothing come back, which is obviously ye fair help, but they just kind

It wasn't u to different preparation. It's just that they were ready.

No, it wasn't. It wasn't really different, but they just went up a notch and just in terms of intensity it was different. Yeah, And that's where that's where it all comes from. The intensity of which you train, I think is probably the biggest indicator of how you're going to play.

Especially like Grand Final, that that Grand Final build and getting the intensity for the Grand vol because they've had experienced at it, so much experience at it. Now, how much the effective do you think that plays it? Because it looks like you guys got so much patience, Like like you got you're not panicking at any stage, You're not starting to do crazy shit like oh shit, we better start throwing the board, you know, you know, I mean like it looks like you've got patience.

Yeah, well, I think that sort of what you touched on, like it's knowing that sort of our best is going to beat anyone else and having that little bit of confidence in that. And I think we actually had a discussion earlier in the week we were training and went up to Dad after and we sort of spoke and just felt like we'll maybe focusing a bit too much on Melbourne rather than just focusing on ourselves and getting

I'm sitting here and thinking himself, they're both good looking dudes. One four Grand Finals. They're like, the father's got the perfect son and brother and your other children too as well, and perfect wife because he's got a great relationship with his wife. The son's singing, I got the perfect dad, Like what the hell? Like, what there must be? Is there a chink anywhere? It's plenty funny, you never you don't, you know, but everything it's like, do you ever think yourself?

Yeah, well it was funny. Last time we spoke as any of that was with one our first verse on then twenty twenty one, and I remember thinking on that night, I was just thinking, how can you be so lucky where so many things go so well for you in

Well, you're only fifty two three three fifty three. I was going to give you a year theres but like, you know, you've got one way to go, like Bennett's late seventies or something, I'm.

Not going to be coaching. I'll be lucky that I'm alive of that.

And I heard Bellamy said the other day that day he probably retired before he's seventy, and he's sixty seven, I think at the moment, so he said, I'm not I mon't be there at seventy. That's there were his words. Do you see yourself coaching these blakes for a long time that.

I don't know. I'm contracted for another three years and at the moment, that's that's good enough.

It's unlikely they're not going to renew the contract. Can I tell?

Yeah, I know, but I just don't know if I can. You know, like, I just can't see myself playing one of those guys. It's I'm in my sixties or late seventies, still still going through this rollcaster. You know, I want to sitting back on a beer in the stand, mate, But.

It is a rollercaster, it is. I mean, I often say I recommend the hardest jobs is coaching, Like well, it's a lifestyle heavy like this can be traumatic and terrible.

It's a lifestyle. It's more than a job. It's you live it, you know, and from week to week, depending on how the game goes, you know, can dictate how your life. It's not just you, it's your family, it's your wife, your kids. So it's that's where you put your handle for and that's that's the addictive part of it as well. Every time you have a loss or you're not going well or you know, it's I think as a coach, you always feel like there's something good around the next corner, you know.

So yeah, but does that mean mean that you're by a definition and have a positive mindset? Though, like generally speaking, you have a good positive outlook and stuff.

I think so I'm a bit of a realist. But I also I just feel like, I guess I have enough confidence in myself and and the team and the people you know that work for you and whatever that will. If we're not going to get right now, we will eventually get it right, you know. And I guess if yeah, that's I suppose it's just yeah, there's something good around the next corner. But there's been plenty of dark times, mane, that's for sure.

I can't just talk from her about there's not just two people in your family. There's quite a few of this four kids and your wife as well. Maybe you just introduce who maybe you could do it, introduce the rest of your family to us.

So what have you got?

The NOFE is not here today, but like who's there and what's the order of kids and what's everybody doing?

It's got mum back. She's the rock of the family. She keeps everyone together real for sure. Yeah she Yeah, how.

Long you'll be married? Now? We're how long you've been hanging out to you? Going together? The type of thing.

I was out twenty ninth, twenty anniversary last week, so we we got engaged after one year and then got married, so it's for thirty one years.

Well, congratulations coming from someone and he's had three marriages.

So thanks. We're beating the others.

You definitely are. You definitely are and going.

And then I'm the oldest. Some'm twenty six. I got my sister Indiana, she's twenty five or fourteen months apart.

And what's Indiana doing? She she made a footy Evan.

She's yeah, she's actually she she's probably the I would say the least sporty out of the kids. But she loves her footage. She loves telling dad who she who should be picking and who's playing well and all that, and she's her mam are very similar like that. There's social types. They'll go to the footy and have a drink and just love chatting and watching the game and yeah, she's she's a good time.

I'm still yeah, she's yeah, and you've got after that.

And then I've got a brother who's nineteen as he just signed up with some of the Warriors. Yeah, so that's that'll be interesting change for him.

But what positions he played?

He plays half back really yeah, the same structure as you are, a bit skinnier, but he was going to be taller than me. Yeah. Yeah, when he feels out, he feels he's going to be bigger, So it'd be a good opportunity for him. I'm actually I couldn't help but feel bad for him at times. When he first started playing with parents in the juniors, like everyone knew who was it was right up to him in the paper and he was just trying to work out his path and journey. And he's definitely been on a different

She's still scool. I guess she left.

She was doing a hair dress apprenticeship. So me, Malaya and Dad are all very similar, quite introverted, not as outgoing. And then Chad Indian Mama are the extroverted party type, a good time. So it's a good mix in the family.

Yin and yang sort of thing, you know, like you've gotta have someone who cuts and someone who sows. Yeah, you know, like otherwise you can have a good tailing, good suit. But that that's that's interesting that the I mean, you've gone downe perfectly, like two boys do girls, Like, how the hell did you do that? I don't have four sons, Like.

You don't know what you know?

I kept that's probably right if it was something that I and I guess I had different mums. So like that's what. It didn't help me. I just kept trying it. I just kept trying to have a girl, that's and I never I just never succeed. Now I've got three grandsons as well. And and when you were when you're having kids, did you actually wish that your kids play

Yeah. Also, as Nat said, he was firstborn, and he was honestly by the time he could walk, he was kicking footies and hitting him golf balls and just playing with any sort of ball, he could say. I didn't even have time to even think about whether I wanted him to play footy. I didn't really, I didn't necessarily want him to play footy. I just wanted him to follow what he liked doing, and he just loved playing sport, so he you know, I encouraged him to play. You know,

But was it was was he always built. He's a big he's a big kid for a half back, like like very big.

Yeah, he wasn't. He wasn't like that. No, he wasn't overly big as a kid. Even when he was started a teenager when he first played Howld Matthews, he was I'm a fourteen coming off the bench playing hooker and it wasn't much of it. Fifteen and sixteen, yeah, it was sixteen, was fourteen or something or yeah, and so that by the time, you know, the other kids obviously came around, I had the same thing. If they wanted to play sport, awesome, same with jet if if Jenny

How much your way out of interest. There's a half back about ninety at the moment. That's a big half back.

Yeah. I got to ninety four in the pre sasion and I sort of realized this is a bit too big. I think, yeah, more muscles lost, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah muscle. So then at that point were quick the tape, you'll tell me the tapes. And then yeah, obviously had the hamstring injury as well, So I was like, I sort of refined my diet a bit and I'm pretty happy at ninety at the moment.

So do you feel as though any of the injuries that were as a result of having, you know, being a bigger set.

I don't think so. But at this point when after my second hamstring injury. I was just I wanted to look at everything, like I was just putting everything on the table and yeah, I just really took like a bird's eye view of what was happening what because I just felt I felt confident at the time, like I felt good in my body, and then these things were happening and it's obviously something's going wrong. So yeah, sort

He's a perfectionist. Yeah, easy to get it from your mum.

Nah, No, neither, I think we've mum and I are quite happy to be not perfect. Yeah.

He has to get it right though.

Yeah, but you know what, it's just, you know what does think That's something he has realized as well, that you're never perfect, but he he tries to be, and he prepares like no one I've ever seen, you know, Like I he said earlier, that he's learned that he never wanted to give himself an excuse come game day. And that's actually there's a lot of it's almost human nature that you want to give yourself that a little

I mean, I mean, I couldn't kick a goal ever then or now, and I look at guys, I give me your kicking a goal, especially under pressure. And I watch the process you take yourself through, and you're sort of talking to yourself. You say something to yourself, I mean, is that something you could share with us, Like is there? It seems like there's a series of steps that you take that sort of dull. All the noise and all

Is that?

Like close?

Yeah, yeah, I've said this to a few people. But when I first get to the top of where I'm about to kick the ball, and i'm setting it up. I can hear everything in the crowd. I can hear people say and stuff. But once I've set it up and I get to the top of my runner, it's like there's no noise. It all just becomes one and then it's just me in my own head pretty much like and I especially feel this with the high pressure kicks that I won to tie the game or win

I reckon And is that partly because you do actually practice at the park all the time. Maybe one of those guys after training you're still kicking, You're still training, you're still kicking goals and yeah, up and under whatever you do extras.

Yeah, yeah, a lot. And that was probably saying that I need to refine as well with the hamstring issues, which has been it's been a difficult process, but it's probably helped me a bit more to see things in my own head rather than actually just doing physical reps and it's more mental focus and stuff like that, and I think that helps me in those sort of high pressure moments. It feels like I've been there before and I've envisioned it almost. And yeah, I think the thing

And well, les's like fighters, like boxes and are there can be the nicest people outside of the ring. They get in the ring, they just switch on and they become that person and everybody thinks of they're like that all the time, but they're not. But you know, all comes down to how they prepare, all the training that they get ready to do what they're going to do, you know, Like I but I guess I've been talking

Go, Like, well, there's a few I reckon just we're talking in the car on the way here, Puel and Modi and Isaac Tummer. Just what they were able to do. They're probably unsung heroes in some regard of you know, they don't get all the wraps and they're not till

What would you what would you about? What would you say, is what's his skill? Like he seems about it. He's very light on his feet for a big, tall, big guy. Yeah, he just keeps, he keeps. I remember once he was driving his legs on him and he just lea going, going, going, and he would have gone, he'd probably got an extra

Well, it gives the rest of us energy as well when you see that happen. He just takes a carry and he's just carrying three guys from other twenty meters. I think we so I spoken about. He's got great balance, He's got a great understanding of the game. It's almost like having another half back out there. He just understands the game so well. And that comes back to your fitness as well. You have to be fit to keep your head on and know what's happening. And yeah, he's

Week's field coach. Yeah pretty much. Yeah sure, and that that on field coach are pretty important. Like if you can get that sort of individual.

We've got a couple. Actually it's pretty handy, you sure, Liam mart Like, no, he's not one, but how good? Yeah, under Lee. And he's just a big game player and every sense of the word. Like sometimes I watch him or like because I play right next to him sometimes in the club games during the season, it's like, where's this guy that's this case that's playing origin in the finals, Like he's just a bit you know, not there, But as soon as he's needed, he always turns up. And

It's funny you should say, because you mentioned some let's call it unsung heroes. Earlier on you did, Nathan and I'm your hooker whose name is just avoids me for some reason, but I wanted to give him a great game.

He's just got like concrete weapon. He's unbelievable. Yeah, yeah, he's he leads the party afterwards as well. He's amazing. Yeah yeah, he's just that's half and that that much of a team man. You know he will do Yeah, he fight his grandmother.

For a scrap on the ground. You know, take it up no matter what. You wouldn't need me to do it. And do you, Nathan, do you draw on any sporting heroes to for inspiration apart.

From yeah, a lot, a lot I got. I love sort of the American sports. So Tom Brady has always won that I've sort of looked up so and just listening to him and the way he went about his work was saying that I was really drawn towards like surgery is he just disects everything and just get it all back together. Just unbelievable. So he's probably other tople list for me, my could join with the last dance

Lebron James. Actually, what's interest about Lebron James and his son? They play together. I mean it wasn't there wasn't much in it a couple of years, but you could do it like hard back yard. Come on. So the celebrations that you guys have been going through, they're pretty much over. I guess you're going to have your wards. It must be coming up soon. You've had yours? Yeah, okay? And who won? And what's your top award at the Penrith car and what? And what's the murf cut right? Who won?

Two in a row? I think that's his third?

And what do you say to someone like him when he when you see that he's now the captain's train side, doesn't he?

Yeah?

I mean, what do you what do you what do you say to what do you say to mine? What do you reach out to him and say?

Well? I could say I said this to him like he broke the all time games record for Panthers this year, but took Steve Carter's record two hundred and forty four games, which has stood for twenty three years. So I mean I said on that occasion, and I feel like I don't talk enough about Yo. He like what he does for us. He's the best way I could probably sum it up is like I'm always looking to give him a rest, but I'll just never take him off because I just can't. I can't. I can't face us playing

Can I just go to like a little topic on the side, Mary foul I saw a post from her with the Penrith jersey on and and then I saw one from you with her. It might have been in your stories, but I can't remember it was her, Like you know, like anything, I'm.

Just I'm looking forward to seeing her. I got to see her soon. And where is she now? She's in England. The season had just started so she couldn't come back for the game, but she she wore the Panthers jersey to her game actually and was watching it.

So how did you meet her at this event?

And I'd none of her for a little bit, and then I sort of knew that she was going to be there that night, and I was a bit like, I hope that our path cross and we're no, it was not. Story was pretty shy though, so yeah, I can imagine. Yeah, so it was it was nothing crazy at this stun and then we just she was here for the World Cup, so yeah, to know each other a little bit.

And she she's added US ambassador as well. So like, if if the two of you, like you know, get together and do something, get married or whatever, and you move in the house together, you're going to have to get a big house because the number of boxes of it, you're gonna have to.

Have three rooms for it.

Because I saw a post it was on your page at about being one of your sponsors and poor a lady help redesign your bedroom or something, and she didn't know how to deal with it. They showed a picture of all the like there was a wall full of added our shoes.

That's the start of it. Yeah, I'm pretty into my shoes and lucky enough to be responsible out of us.

So it's a pretty good one to be sponsored by.

Yeah, definitely, definitely, So they definitely helped that need.

I was looking at my wheels before I came in because I was looking at it in my office and much ship. He's probably one of those guys knows everything about shoes, you know, and he's going to say something to me like I had my crappy I don't even say what I got. I got my crappy shoes and training shoes.

I know the feeling.

Mate. Yeah, you've got to get a shoe game, right mate.

You've got to help him. I get him shoes pretty much every time for his birthday, Christmas, So he's stepping it up a little bit.

If you don't pay from that, do you? Because there's smart. He's come on, he's smart. He works ou out pretty quick.

He used to bag me for it, but now he actually appreciates the shoes.

Well you know how important. Well I've only more recently learned how important having a shoe game, right. That's a really important thing, especially out where you're living now, because that's a big deal. Like, you know, you got to have the right shoes, dude, Like and you've got to listen to your son. He knows what you should be wearing with you right colors. I'm not sure about those ones.

I'm already married. I don't need to impress anyone.

Pressure the kids. Can I ask you?

Like it?

It's an elephant room question, but like I'm gonna ask it anyway. Gus cool. Gus is a controversial figure, especially he has been in relation to Penrith and in some respects self. He was at the roosters for a long time. As you know, he's now Cantery. One thing no one can deny. Gus a smart guy and committed. Do you attribute any any of this success, not the success of you as a coach, but success of Pendrith generally to what Gus might have done earlier on?

Absolutely? Yeah, And I would attribute a lot of success as a coach I've had too because I played four years under Gus. He also got me to come to Penrith originally also sacked me. But a lot of a lot of how I look at the game and what I learned about the game and how I still coach today is from is from Gus, and he would he would know that by the way we by the way we play, I managed people differently the way he does.

So it's mad yeah, specifically for that those two positions.

Yeah, Trent Barr Okay, wow, Yeah, so Gus had a huge influence on it, but I actually think that he probably had to leave in order for us to actually reach our potential as well.

Yeah, well he can be like that though. I mean he's he's good in the beginning and structure will set up a structure. It's un I mean he did it Origin too. If you remember, like during the Puber when he was an Origin coach, you did the roosters as you remember stick And now he's doing a good job with the dogs and he's sort of picked a few, picked the eyes out of a few of your ex players. He probably knew them before though, I guess, and he knew that their potential. Yeah do you does he textures?

Mate?

Well done on talking terms.

I haven't spent it for a long time, but I'm sure it would be fine.

Yeah, it means he didn't texture like that. The great thing about footy, right, and because we all accept the tribalism of it and it's still his tribal I mean, like it's particularly where you guys are like, it's very tribal and like and if I could, certainly you know there is and to some extent it's even probably often I've talked to the coppers about this, and you know, like guys in the administration police and they talk about they could get concerned sometimes about the tribalism of footing

I think, yeah, well, I know there's definitely the clubs had some fears in and around that. It sort of spills over a little bit of local games, particularly around spectators and supporters of games and stuff. So and the boys themselves, it's quite a big responsibility for them because they have such a connection. Yeah, if they're from the area of the Mountain drew It boys and they and they will have incredible loyalty to where they come from,

I think he's maybe and others maybe others see that too, Maybe others can learn from that, because it could be you know, you don't because lastly you want is a split in there, like between groups of guys and they got wives and you know, their partners and families and brothers and sisters and stuff like that. It can get a bit messy. And I guess is that for the captainal for the coach to manage or we've.

We've been really clear at Panthers that we have our own culture, right. So you know, a lot of boys do come from the area, a lot of boys come from other places as well. And no matter who you are, where you've come from, you know your cultural backgrounds, color of your skin, what, how do you want to heat where you have tatoos and no tatoos whatever. As long as you fit in the values of the Panthers and you know, respect our culture, then you can be. You

Can we just drink West? So you're in with sorry, the two partners is tie and who's and how's it going?

Drink West? Yeah, it's good. It's it's a hard gig with the brewery is hard, Yeah, but it's it's been enjoyable. It's been something that just learning about probably my first dip into business, so just learning along the way. And yeah, it's been fun. Obviously those two ways the polarizing characters, so they always keep it fire.

I love him, I particularly Ty. Yeah, he's a great guy. He's told his story to a million times, like he's I just love his effort, like outside of the UFC, Yeah, his effort as a person to try to be better.

Well, he's similar to the sort of Romium business I would have give him back to the area and trying to build everyone up that that comes from there and showing them that there's hope, you know, to make it out. And I think that's saying that those boys in particularly have done really well and it's now become cool to be from Mandre, where in the past probably wasn't totally.

Will you guys that keep keep that coolners going there, like winning grand finals like that on the pins it straight up, yeah, you know, like and God help you if you lose next year, you get brushed for life. But I love the idea that they've built a beer around people who live in the West, because this makes that's smart to me. Yeah, because you've got to you've got a brewer. Now, he's got a brewer. Nowt there, and you've actually got as a bar pick going to have a drink there.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think I went out there. I got invited him. I went out there, and I thought that's pretty smart. And you know, like if if you guys ever needed any help, and I've extended to tie if you want, like you always coming to talk to me. You know, I've got a mate who's he's made of his too. He's actually in the moment who owned a brewing business and sold him and Mickfending, aren't it and a couple others and they sold a large amount of money.

If you ever wanted to talk to it, that'd be great actually because he's here, he hasn't seeing it for the next couple of days and anyway he comes back and forth. But it'd be good because I'm thinking to myself, what does does Nathan think about post footy?

I'll be about it more like, particularly this year with injuries, I had a lot of time to myself to think and what ifs. Yeah, exactly, Like you just think it's going to go forever, but then you have a few injuries, you're out of the game and you sort of realize, like, this isn't going to last forever. So dragging this year is probably the first year I've really thought about post footy and what that looks like for me. And yeah, it's been an interesting journey. It's one that I am

What does a club do that sort of thing I would do. It's just penrith sort of extend to their players' assistance or you know, like encourage them to do courses or is there something going on And as a coach, do you do anything in that regard for the team and the team members?

Yeah, not so specifically, We definitely encourage them to to do stuff outside of just footy, you know, so whether that's plenty of players are actually doing courses and trying to look into other things just to help them for life after. As that mentioned, it can be a pretty sure career and you never quite know when it's over. On business stuff, there's yeah, we have sort of help available, but it's probably nothing. It's so formal. Maybe you need to come out.

Happy to I'm happy that not because we do that. That's the sort of stuff I'd like to do it because, as I like to tell it, young blokes and young women improve their lives and do better. Because it's kind of put me when you say the sporting career, the footy career can be short. Well, I mon't be put another way. You're going to live to your generation. You live to ninety or one hundred, and not many players go past thirty five for arguments sake, you know, Jerry

At yeah, I think probably more so than I'm much very settled off the field at the moment, just my headspace and the people in my life, and I'm really content with that. So that definitely helps on the field, but it also does make you think about the future and what's going to happen, and yeah, put a little bit more thought into that.

So do you just dad and become the dad and not the coach anymore? At that point?

Do you?

I mean, do you let my kids don't talk to.

Me about it?

Just do it? My dad? He's a she's pregnant. You know that's a bit extreme, but like, my kids will kill me for saying, but I haven't helped you, but you know what I mean. But like, does do you have to cross that bridge? Like Dad's gone from being a coach to being dad.

Well, I've always been lucky with that. Dad's always still felt like dad to me. Obviously a train and it feels like he's the coach, coach a training or dad, I'll call him Dad. But I've realized that I'd never say it, like out loud that much because I don't really want to be yelling across like Dad, And sometimes I'm talking to other people, I will describe it as ivan. Yeah, yeah, we're on the same on the same path. But yeah, I have always been lucky that he's still remained dad

Well, you've I have to tell you.

It's like.

You your currency outside of the panthers is huge, so when we walk outside, your currency is huge. So you've got a great future, like for as long as you can play footy. Yeah yeah, but and yeah, you've got you come from a fantastic family. You've got pretty much everything ahead of you. Like it's at some stages sort of turns around to you. You've got to take ownership

Yeah, yeah, I will. I'm super lucky if my family is the everything to me and it's yeah, like I obviously coach for a living, but that's not who I am. And yeah, my family's first and foremost. And interesting you say that about about that, because I was thinking about that this week where it's like he's like he's now a man and it's like, wow, you think you know you're firstborn, he's now a man. And just every time you just hear him talk, he just amazes me like

Congratulations not only winning the coaching Grand Fato, congratulations to you and your wife for raising what you've raised all of them. And they often say the opp doesn't drop far from the dream, mate, so like, thank you. It's going to be it's got to have something a lot to do with the way you conduct yourself.

Oh, thank you would be the greatest achievement of my life. And my kids, you know, continue to be upstanding citizens and at varied of the community.

So yeah, that's that's pretty cool. Added that brings me into this. Yes, by the way, anyone think he played didn't get away with that?

I actually said it was pretty cool. It was pretty cool because he's quite as some moment every now and you're sitting out.

Of the top of you guys like you've written a book. Not everything counts, but everything matters. It's how connection and courage teach us to win an enor And this is about it. This is an anoral leadership story. This book's going to be on the shelves soon, if not now, but it's going to be in the book shelves very soon. What's this book about?

Tell us about? Yeah, so it's not. It's certainly not my life story. It's something that's really got me out of my comfort zone. I just couldn't even imagine ever having a book written about me. I thought that was reserved for bokes like you, so.

Mate, much more than me.

So I consider myself a pretty normal dude who's just persevered. You know, I used the talents that I have and learn as much as I can over the years, and i'd like to think that I can be obviously, you know, parallel with coaching and sport, but it's a bit more than that, I think. You know, hopefully people in business can. Yeah, it can be helped by some of the stuff that I've been through.

You're in the business of Woody.

And I'm not telling by the way, this is be really clear on this. I'm not telling people how to do anything. I just sort of more like my story and some stuff that I've learned along the way, and hasn't all been easy, and hasn't all been as I said earlier, you're and skittles, certainly not. So's some lessons in and around that. Obviously, the father son thing where you know, just about every junior sports team in Australia,

But you're killing, You're killing, and I just want to read what you wrote in the front of it says, this is from you to mom and dad. Think if you're showing me the way into the game of rugby league the greatest going of all, I owe you everything. Can you tell me about your mom and dad?

Yeah, so I was I'm the youngest of three boys. So we grew up in the Northern Beaches in an era where, yeah, we were sort of allowed to get out and about, you know that the old days, and I was the youngest of three brothers, so I was just dragged along and to everything and anything. I was very sporty family. Mum and dad split when I was pretty young, about ten. So yeah, I don't know, they didn't They're always there, but they didn't tell tell us everything,

That's actually adds a little extra to the whole thing, by the way, Yeah, winning it for him, Yeah, But I think, yeah.

You realize as you get older how much you sort of learned from your parents from your early years. You know just how things should be done and how they're done, and you know ways of looking at things. And as I said, they never yeah, they weren't pushing any stretch, but they Yeah, they kind of taught your stuff in their own way, I reckon, And yeah, I think that's You're definitely grateful for that.

It sounds like they gave you sort of a good footing but good wings at the same time.

I think, so, yeah, to do both. Yeah, I think it's important that you kind of let your kids stumble and make their own mistakes and yeah, and sort of they have to be able to pick them up, but they've got to kind of work it out as well.

I just won't just cover a couple of the chapters. He will part their parts. So the first one is about culture, the second one is about leadership, which I think is a has an application anywhere, not just in footy the game itself. That's I guess you'd be talking about strategies and tactics and yeah, just seeing the stories from the actual and winning. You've got a whole part of winning. How important is it for your team in terms of like the last weekend, winning that Grand Final?

Yeah, well, I guess that's there's a section in the book around I probably made a change in strategy sort of five years ago where I was always obviously interested in winning and always was competitive and wanted to win, but I don't think I was actually being true to it where I was completely risking all to win, you know. So it might be a bit like you prepare you know, nine, but you're not quite the last five for whatever reason, just to give you that a little bit of a

But I think people would be fascinated too. It's sort of a bit of it. I guess what is he will be fascinated to read this because I think it doesn't matter with you're a footy fan. If a footy fan, yes, but if you're not a footy fan, these areas about winning.

Yeah, I hope. So that's that's the idea. Mark, you know, I'm not just I definitely would never want to have a book of just where it's all about me or anything like that. I just, yeah, I'm hopeful that people in all different walks of life can can get something out of it.

And I got to say, it's an old photo. There's not US twenty there, but they're just great here. But that's an old photo.

There was no I'm pretty sure the make up there.

I'm not sure we've got four G cameras. Hey, guys, I look, I'm privileged to heavy in here. I want to congratulate again for everything you've done for footy, everything you've done for Penrith, every thing you've done in the field, everything you've done in the field for your team, but you've done for the area and raising a wonderful family.

Good on.

Thanks having a prettiate.

Thanks so much, right, appreciate it. Yeah m hm