¶ Exes Reflect on Relationship and Intimacy
Welcome to the Straight from the . Source's Mouth podcast Frank talk about sex and dating . Hello everyone , tamara here , welcome to the show . As promised , I'm going to talk to another ex , and today's guest is my ex David , and we'll be talking about our past dating and sex lives .
If you like this episode , be sure to tell your friends about it and rate it as well . Thanks for joining me , david .
Great to be here .
Yes , hopefully . And just for the record , for the last one , my ex-husband did ask if he could redo it because he felt bad , that he was a little mean . So I told him it's fine , whatever , it's already up . So we'll see how this second one goes . So my first question to get started like , what do you remember most about our time together ?
And it was a long time ago . But like , do you have ?
Well , I'm sorry , can I ask ? First , I'm just curious how long this series goes . I mean , am I I'm number two of of how many ? Can I ask that I'm number two of how many ?
Can I ask that ? Sure , well , I've talked to one other at least . Well , two others who mentioned wanting to be on my podcast previously , like for whatever reason , they just like the idea .
One was a guy I dated when I was doing stand-up comedy regularly and he went to my shows so he always thought it would be cool to be on and he kind of liked the idea of being talked about . Even I haven't asked him yet . I haven't asked the other one yet either . You are number two of potentially four and we'll see .
All right , I'm just curious . I'm ready , I want to win it .
Yeah , all right Back to the question then . You asked me my memory , my main memory yeah , like I mean , what do you remember most ? Like what do you like about us ? Or that time I mean it was also like a long time ago .
So , um , like they can either reflect on where you were at that time or where , how we were , or we can start from the beginning , like here to refresh the memory . I will just set the tone of where we were , we , we , you were .
Either I was giving a briefing or we were both at a briefing , um on base , because we were air force , or I don't mention being in the military on this podcast , but whatever um , and then , like , we saw each other and then we . It took a while to actually talk again .
I forget how we , when you had gone on a date with my friend and I always thought you were cute , and I forget how it even started .
Louise , yes , I remember seeing you at the gym and I do remember we had we had mutual acquaintances , mutual friends and I remember going out once or twice , but I remember it as a great relationship . I don't recall even how long it lasted , but it was more than you know , it was more than quickly and I thought it was fantastic .
You know , if you recall , we fell into a rhythm of staying at your place primarily and dating , but also , you know , spending many nights together and I remember it was much of . It was over a winter , a stretch of winter and what was a pretty cold location , and it was just they're great times . I mean , I thought it was a great relationship .
I hadn't had , like you know , some sort of extensive dating history by that time . I guess I was in my mid-20s , early 20s , mid-20s . I'd had a few serious girlfriends before that and you know I thought it was a good relationship and a lot of fun and very positive and a lot of fun and very positive .
Yeah , yeah , I mostly remember that too . There were , I think our communication style was maybe a little different , sometimes Like I wanted more communication and you had your times where you like needed your space and like less time together .
And that goes back to I know I've talked about wanting to like share things for the listeners too , like attachment styles , because mine was an anxious attachment style . I wanted know I probably would have liked more time and my love languages are quality time and touch . We definitely handled the touch part and quality time when we were together .
It was definitely quality , but , um , I think there were times where , like I wanted more communication , but that's .
But I definitely remember the good times too that's funny , you know , your , your whole I was . I heard your other , uh , I heard your episode with your ex-husband and you know the one of the main premises being change over time and I don't know .
I mean , I feel like we , I feel like even talking about this now , 25 years later , or whatever it is it's , it's still . You're still prone to talk past each other a little bit . I mean I , you , you have different memories , I have different memories . I mean your , your complaints or or your observations are fair , that's for sure .
But yeah , what I didn't see then , I'm not sure I even see it now , you know . So I mean I , you know you tell me , I mean you , you , you , your observations seem very fair .
Yeah , I mean it was , but I always thought of you as the one that got away . So I mean , obviously there was more positive than negative , for sure .
Well , just to just to go back and catch , catch up , catch the audience up on , on kind of the , the build to it , if I'm sure you you probably recall this that you know we had one or two dates and then it wasn't really going anywhere and um , and then , for whatever reason you know , one one night it got comfortable all of a sudden and we kind of fell
into it and it was really great from then on or for for however long it lasted , which I don't know , it was something in what three , four , five months .
you know that kind of range yeah , actually I think it was longer than that . No , I was gonna say our first date . I remember our first day . Like you said , it didn't go really well .
Like we went to a bar near your place and we went back to your place and you fell asleep and we were listening to a lot of music and I was just sitting on the couch while you fell asleep and I was like okay , and then I can't remember what we did the second time . But yeah , like you said , it was then we like .
Well , some of that's by design , I mean I've , I've always , you know . I mean most women , they like it if you hold back a little bit at first and you don't jump their bones immediately .
Yeah , yeah , I mean , and also it's the right thing , it's ultimately the right thing to do also at least know to an extent I mean , they don't want someone that's too careful or too too cautious .
But yeah , yeah , I mean , you're left wanting more . But then , because of what , you fell asleep . I was like I wasn't sure , like I can't even remember how we got the second one man , you are coming at me with some detail .
Yeah , I mean I should have .
I should have really prepped for this some more well , and I don't really have like that creative memory either .
It's just there's like certain ones that stand out because remember , if you remember this , we were sitting on my couch looking at my pictures and there was a picture of the two of us yeah , um , randomly , from four years ago you had , we were hanging at , my classmates and I were hanging out , and you could come by and like , saw a party , and you're like ,
hey , let me sit down . And you ended up like we literally had a picture . We were like what , here's the picture of the four or the two of us . And we didn't like you know , just random , you're a random guy that came over . So I just thought that was cool at the time watching that .
But yeah , so back to how great it was you were a little older than I was right yeah , yeah , it's like six years older I , I like that , I still like , I mean I I've always liked that uh , women who are a little bit more , uh , mature have some , you know , more life experience .
I thought that was very , very sexy and I thought that was uh one that you know made the relationship go the , you know , as you and we went on several trips too . We did Although you're going to say yeah , I would say that the , the , the physical part was amazing . You know , those are some real highlights .
I don't know if that's a good or a bad thing , but but the physical part was awesome . But the physical part was awesome . There was tremendous chemistry . We did go on a couple of trips and that that was actually one thing I don't think worked great . You know , I'm a little more . I don't know what it is I .
You know , when we went on trips , I mean we slept at like two in the afternoon , if you recall .
Yeah , true , you did prefer to get out and do stuff . I remember the one hotel that had those blackout curtains so we had no idea how long we were sleeping .
At the time I'm thinking if I stick it out with this person , I'm not sure what my lifestyle is like . I'm not sure I can remain a functioning member of society .
Because we wanted to stay in bed all the time .
Yeah , I mean we tried to do some trips and it was like I'm not sure , I'm not sure how much of those locations we actually saw . But I mean I'm saying that somewhat tongue in cheek , but at the time , at the time it was kind of a head scratcher yeah , yeah , I mean , yeah , good point .
Yeah , I do remember , like I remember the . You were like what it's two o'clock because of the blackout curtains , but I remember well , for me I liked it because it was my quality time thing . So we're sitting next to each other on the plane while we get there , we're like staying in a hotel together .
So of course , I just remember all that part of it , like just being close to you and being having quality time . So that was enough for me , like I've always been someone like I don't care what I'm doing , I don't have to be doing anything as long as I'm with the person I'm with .
Yeah .
So yeah , I can lend to not getting out as much . Well , good .
Yeah , yeah , I know , and I think that's some . Maybe that's something that guys struggle with and I I struggle with with it . You know , you you want to be in a relationship that's intimate , that's close , that's comfortable .
But I know that from my perspective , I also want to be in a relationship where the other person has other diversions , other hobbies maybe is one way to put it other interests , so that there isn't this intense , so that the I carry for that person's happiness is not so great .
So you know , at this point in my life I'm starting to think about , you know that , that codependency or dependency within a relationship . And how healthy is it really to put so much focus on the other person and all the qualities , or lack thereof , of the relationship ?
No , yeah , you definitely make good points on that and that's something I used to struggle Well , like , yeah , I guess probably why I haven't been in relationships too much lately . I definitely have that habit , or had that habit , of putting all my emphasis on the guy and talking about the relationship nonstop , especially to friends who get really annoyed by that .
But now that I have a podcast and I used to do stand-up comedy and I have many other things in the gym and friends , but , yeah , when I really like someone , I want to which is not advised put all my focus and shut everyone else out and only focus on the person and I definitely don't do that more . But , yeah , that's a good point .
It's not necessarily the healthiest . And I do remember one other reason you weren't sure about us long term because you were like you weren't sure if I would get along with your friends or if I would fit in with your world of friends or friend world .
Yeah , it's probably dysfunctional , but I end up attracted to women and getting involved with women . Usually that are a break from they're different and they're a break from this other life I have with my old friends and I don't know why that is . It's probably not for the best .
It's probably largely my own problem on some on some level , but that's not just you specifically , I think . I think I do that habitually .
Yeah . Yeah , I mean , people have their patterns , like you know . It's not necessarily like their type or their pattern . And it goes back to I know we talked about this the Imago three , which I mentioned on the ex-husband podcast , where you're drawn to people for certain reasons and then it could be , you know , it's not going to work .
So that's why you're drawn to the person , because you're afraid of commitment . So , pick ones that probably wouldn't work , but yet I never met them , so we wouldn't know .
Yeah , I could have been like , but yeah , I mean , and I was always , because you were always , like you're saying before , you didn't want me to be the focus , and yet I was trying to have you be my focus . So your responsibility , you felt kind of had you pull away and then that brought my anxiousness and my neediness out more .
Um , because you were soon after my ex-husband like um , well , like a year or two later . So I was still in that mode , pre-landmark , where I was extra needy .
¶ Reflections on Relationships and Attraction
So , yeah , and I can never like the physical stuff was definitely good , but I could never like feel it close , close like my first boyfriend where I had , um , like the kind of orgasms where I , where I was like like adding her piece to talk about this .
Once you have that of like the amazing chemistry orgasm where you can't let the guy go , and it took me two years to get over him . So I've never let myself get like , unless I'm sure that the other person is into me , I can't like let us let go as much .
Physically , granted , it was still amazing , like you said , but like , emotionally , orgasmically , I couldn't quite be as close yeah , well , you , you , you , you said it .
I mean , there's people can sometimes , sometimes that's the appealing thing , at least initially , is that there is a little bit of a distance . It seems safer somehow and maybe this is more of a guy thing . I thought what was initially very attractive , I still . I still feel this to an extent .
You know , I think you're somewhat of an opaque person , in that there's more than there's more to , there's more than meets the eye . You know there's there's so many interesting things going on sort of behind the first impression .
I think , that's very attractive for both positive and negative reasons yeah , I have people tell me all the time like , especially having done stand-up , like they're like when they meet me in person , they could never in a million years guess that I would have done that , because I speak quietly . I was telling someone just yesterday .
He said hi , and I said it back , but he's like hello , and I'm like I said it .
He's like I didn't even hear you and I'm like , yeah , I used to do stand-up where I had a microphone in front of my mouth and to say that I was like the low talker from seinfeld and all the stuff about trailing off at the end , like so actually I need to add him to the list . I haven't asked him yet , but he's another good one to have on .
That's starting to happen to me now . I think at this point in my life I I'm so right , I'm so , I'm living in my head so much that if people approach me to talk without any warning , I can hardly get words out . But hey look , for my part , I had orgasms , no problem whatsoever . They were full up orgasms 100% .
Yes , I do remember that yes , I do remember that .
Uh , cold nights at your apartment , night after night , were , quite frankly , one of the highlights of my entire relationship history yeah , I do , I remember because , um and I , I did .
I like sleeping by the side , away from the room in England where we were . The heaters are right next to one side , so I slept on the opposite side , but then my alarm clock was over there , so I always had to reach over you to get the alarm set .
Every time you adjusted your alarm clock , we made love .
Yes , because I had to hover over you to reach it .
Yeah , it was fantastic .
We can keep going on along this vein , or I was going to bring up something else .
No , no , let's not keep going along that vein , cause it'll get completely out of hand all right , well , and it's like it's totally unrelated , but I know like I was like you used to think you preferred short women and I was taller than you normally dated and I used to always tout the the loveliness of a tall woman yes , with the long legs and all the things
or whatever so and I was always like happy that I took you away from your normal type . But then of course you ended up marrying a short girl .
So I guess Ed was short-lived , my normal type is a petite brunette , you know , maybe some kind of Mediterranean features , dark features , and you are not that . But yeah , you should be proud of your ability to represent that demographic . You know , I mean , it's all good you did break me out of that habit and I went willingly .
Yeah , I mean , obviously it's still your type of the shorter thing . But for a short while you were all about taller girls . Yeah , Agreed , I mean , and that's the thing in society . Like like there was a guy I went out with a few times and I was like , yeah , it's so weird that like super tall guys end up with short girls .
He's like , well , it's like the two ideals get together . Women want tall men and men want short women . So of course they're going to get together . But it's just like so baffling to me their parts don't match . Like why would you want to stoop down and like get up and like break your back to kiss each other and touch each other ?
And , grandma , you're laying down . Maybe it's better , not that you're like overly tall , but I mean you're fairly tall , we have no issues . Um , exactly because we were the right height uh , yeah , I mean it's uh I .
I can't say that you cured me um , but you , you certainly opened my eyes all right , I'll take that .
I will take that all right . So , like what , what ? Well , I guess we kind of talked about this . I was gonna ask , like what worked and what didn't . But I mean , I you kind of if you feel like you already answered that you don't have to unless there's more to say .
Um , I don't know it's complicated , I mean it's it was . It was , uh , you know good chemistry um the right time for both of us , uh , to have a , have a relationship .
It was great I do remember my parents were coming out to visit me and I was , like , wanted you to meet them and at first you said no , and then you showed up because I I used to play crud .
For those that would not understand what this is , it's like football around a pool , a pool table , kind of like a very physical sport Mostly guys play and I really love it and I played it and I was at my mom my parents come watch me in action playing the game . And then you were .
Then you were , you showed up to the club where we were playing the game and I think you ended up talking to him before I officially introduced you , like he said hi or something .
Oh , I'm great with parents . Yeah , I'm better with parents than I am the the woman .
Yeah .
Always have been .
Yeah , so yeah , I don't know what else . I feel like there's something more we should talk about , or is that kind of like ?
I mean we can talk about it's terrible , but we can talk about the end .
Yeah , I mean . Well , all right , so I remember how you remember it . Who wants to go first ?
Well , I mean , I think it goes along with some of the things we're talking about in your last X-Files episode .
¶ Complexities of Past Relationships
You know , like a lot of young guys who are not officially committed . You know , I went missing in action for a weekend to , you know , meet up with another girl . It wasn't like a very intense thing , it was more of like a curiosity thing , Like here's this other girl , Let me , let me meet this other girl real quick .
I don't know , I don't recall how committed we were . You can probably tell me better than I could then and now . But you know , I did the idiot thing and disappeared one weekend and and you were rightfully suspicious of it , and you know , I think , I think things kind of went downhill from there .
There wasn't like an explosion , but whatever it ended yeah , well , it was kind of more .
It was like more off and on than that . But so , for context , christmas morning was when you had a date and left like um , this , there's a couple of these yeah , I mean , you said , come over for Christmas Eve , my friend was dating your friend and roommate , so it worked out .
The four of us met up Christmas Eve and then Christmas morning you're like okay , time to go , and I was like huh , and so that was very traumatic for me . And the first time I ever saw a therapist was Christmas , when I called Um , and then I saw her a few days later but um , yeah , so and I'm starting to tear up about that , so apparently affected me .
Um , but yeah , she was a great therapist , so worked out . Um , but , yeah , so I was . And you , you didn't tell me until years later that you had a date . Like I thought it was like something with your mom or something , you know , some kind of memory , some kind of issue where you had to like duck out . So that was .
And then , um , a friend of mine was like oh , you should break up with them . Was , give me all this advice . And then turns out , as soon as I broke up with you . He like hit on me . So I was like what the so then ? So then I came back to you . I was like I don't know if we should break up , because this guy tried to say we should break up .
And then he , he hit on me . So , yeah , the very , very end , the very very end was me leaving town , like I was moving to a new base and I was staying with you for the last few weeks while I was moved my stuff out of my apartment , and then another girl was interested in you and you were going to see her after I left .
But I was like , just wait till I leave . So it was very off and on and interesting , yeah . So I mean , I don't know if that , the one you recall , was the christmas thing or a different weekend no , I'm talking about that christmas thing .
Yeah , I'm talking about that christmas thing . It was just cavalier . You know it's a typical thing , um , being cavalier with , uh , something that is probably much more serious to the other party . You know it's irresponsible , but there you go .
Yeah , yeah , and it definitely took you a while to admit that it was just a date . And then I ran into your friend from back then . It was like the craziest thing In the Pentagon . We were taking this class together and I was like , yeah , david just told me he's like , yeah , he's like I knew .
I went to your house asking him and he's like I don't know , but he knew and just wouldn't tell me . So , bro , code , have not telling the chick . But yeah , so yeah . And then , um , yeah , so that was really , I mean , we still communicated over the years and obviously we are still in touch now .
So it's not like all bad and we have and , like I said , we both have positive memories , more good than bad memories , I would say .
Yeah , I don't , you know . I certainly you know you didn't do I'd be . I don't think you did anything wrong . I think I listened to the episode , the last episode with your ex-husband . I mean I don't , I don't think you have much to apologize for there either . Uh , you know , you're a very , you're a very decent person .
I mean maybe maybe a little too hard on yourself . You know , uh , the way of the world is . You know , guys are a little bit uh cavalier and then maybe just the matchup is just doesn't have legs .
Yeah , I know we um , oh and then like men are not not always , like they're avoidant and anxious attachment styles and it seems like and as an anxious person I generally attack like attract avoidant types . Like that's just how it works .
You kind of go push and pull back and forth and my , my neediness was making , maybe it was making you more avoidant than you were normally .
Yeah , I don't know , tamara , I don't think you give yourself enough credit . I wonder if you give yourself enough credit . You're a cool person . Relationships are complicated . I don't envy your job here on this podcast . It's very complicated and elusive .
Yeah , I mean , I read all the things and try to share the wisdom that I learned .
So , um , and you know , I've learned a lot over the years and like , like we talked about , this was a while ago , so pre-landmark , like I always say , because that definitely was life-changing for me and just learning that , you know , and that's maybe that's where I started , um , taking more responsibility , like almost too much responsibility for the past issues .
But , um , yeah , any parting words , no it was great to talk .
I've been wanting to do this uh show um since I learned about it , since I learned you were doing it . It's a great show , um . It's great to be here , it's great to talk to you and I'll look forward to the results of this x files competition . You know , if there's a runoff , let me know .
And I'm not sure about this guy getting a redo , by the way , that seems .
That seems a little sketchy yeah , he's not , like he had his chance and he said just to clarify he said that like all the stuff was bubbling up , kind of like when I was crying earlier , is starting to cry earlier about the christ .
Said that like all the stuff was bubbling up , kind of like when I was crying earlier , is starting to cry earlier about the Christmas thing , like all these feelings were welling up for him of those times and I was definitely hard on him . So that's um , yeah , I mean he always said I made up for it too . Oh , and I did .
I really remember one thing I used to like write you cards and like drop off , like you like this , I forget , forget if it's thin mints , one of the cookies , and I would like just drop it at your doorstep . And I do all this like sweet stuff that I hardly ever do or have done since then . Like I don't even remember .
I'm like there was one other ex that I did that with . I was engaged the first before and never got married . I would send him cards too . I don't know when that stopped for me . It's been , it's been a minute . I forgot I used to do it .
So I mean I guess no one does cards anymore anyways , but it's all electronic but um it's a very nice thing to do , I don't know why . Yes , I know you seem to appreciate it at the time . All right , well , it's probably not probably not .
That's my bad , that's my loss .
You probably faked it well enough to make it seem like you liked it at the time . I don't know , all right . Well , I don't know , I don't know what , how to end this Like . What do you ? I mean ? I guess you kind of said your parting words of you want to , you like the show and thank you for that .
Yeah , it's interesting . It's interesting to explore something decades later like this , and I look forward to hearing the next episode .
All righty . Yes , I have a few good ones lined up More talk from sexology person and some other coaches and stuff Sounds good Coming up in between my ex-files , all right . Well , thank you for being on . If you like this episode , be sure to tell your friends about it and rate it as well , and like and subscribe and follow and all the words .
All right , thanks again everyone . Thanks David .