¶ Entrepreneurship, Trauma, and Resilience
Welcome to Stories of Change and Creativity . I'm Judy Oskam and I love interviewing people who inspire , educate and motivate . On this episode , I'm sharing my conversation with Glen Lubbert .
Sleep isn't everything , but it impacts everything .
Glen is the founder of Stamina Lab . He is a data-driven sleep and health coach and you'll hear why he followed that path . He's a technology entrepreneur , a certified sleep and behavior design expert , and he's trained in mindfulness nervous system management , and he uses tiny habits and thrive global methodologies .
I think when you hear our conversation , you'll understand that innovation is part of his DNA .
You know what's interesting ? I was just here in South by Southwest is happening right now to record this , and one of the speakers mentioned something that really resonated with me , which is entrepreneurship is a trauma response and I thought and I found that really fascinating and I went back and I started reading more about that .
You know , it's some type of some point in your childhood that this childhood is traumatic . But in general , but you know some key things , what happened that I think helped ? You know key things . What happened that I think helped ? You know it builds resilience , it builds creativity , um , it brings self-reliance . It is , uh lawful risk tolerance .
Um , because of this response and I was like , oh , that's a unique way of uh of doing , thinking about it , um , that is a way to productively , um work through that .
Uh , trauma and being an entrepreneur , I really believe is the ultimate self-improvement program because you're out there all the time on the edge on your own , because you're out there all the time , on the edge , on your own , on your own , hopefully , you can be collaborating with some fantastic people and , yes , you're on your own and that it is something that
forces constant reflection , adjustment , growth , and so I think that's probably why I have been attracted to being an entrepreneur and continue to be .
Well , if you use that sort of descriptor , what was the trauma that led you to that ?
And I ask that because I grew up with a father who was an entrepreneur and my brother is an entrepreneur and I went the other way because I wanted a little more security and I wanted I saw what , what they were going through and I wanted a career and I started in television .
So I was in media at first and then I thought I want to get at the university where I can be what I call an entrepreneur and I could be entrepreneurial , but inside a structure . So that was sort of my deal . But I grew up seeing my dad do a lot of risk , a lot of reward , sometimes not so rewarding . But what was it with you ? What was it ?
A family ?
There was definitely um . There's as a point where I , my family , moved from way before I started high school , moved from a really amazing urban uh or not . So I mean like um , mid-urban , like uh , that just a great beautiful place . That was uh fantastic for growing up , lots of kids around , and we just had a really great uh time up until that point .
And then we we , for family um reasons meaning someone had a past , like my grandparents , and we had had to go help support them we moved from that place to a much more rural area , and so I was just starting high school in an area I didn't know anybody , and so I think that I always go back to that as like oh , this is the point where I'm like , oh ,
I , I have to , I want to be in control of , um , the direction of life . I have to uh you have to be the driver .
You have to drive that because rather than things happening to you .
no , it's , it's that , that's a narrative that , uh , you know that that propelled me and I've , you know , come to recognize that that actually was one as a great gift because of all the things that I've done with so , it with .
So it's not a point where I look back as a negative point of view , but you process it , you process it , and I think that is one of the key areas .
Oh sure , and I have a good friend who's an entrepreneur and she's a designer and a chair designer , and she would much rather work those 80 plus hours for herself than for somebody else . So I think there's something . It's not that you have your own business and it's easy and you can do whatever you want . You're you're solely responsible for everything .
So , I think that's fantastic . And then what ? What led you up to creating Stamina Lab ?
Yeah . So I had a really great success early on in this , so I was able to start several companies and what happened was through that process , you know , and I came to a point where I was getting burned out . And one of the things I advise a lot of young entrepreneurs on is the fact that you aren't your company .
You have multitudes , you're much larger than your company , but when you're 25 years old and you're putting everything you can into this , you are the company , but you have to play that jujitsu act of being , give it your everything and being at everything and , at the same time , be able to uh have identity beyond that or above that .
¶ Importance of Healthy Sleep Habits
And so I got to that point where I was burned out .
I was traveling a lot back and forth across the coast we have offices on both coasts and constantly changing my uh time , so then changing my sleep , and then it got to a point where I couldn't sleep , for I mean , I was able to rest but not really get the deep REM sleep I needed , deep end REM sleep I needed .
So there was a month where I was like that and I could feel it just like dragging on my brain , and I went to my management team and said listen , I haven't been sleeping and it's affecting my ability to make decisions . I need some help , not in them helping me with my challenge , but for them to be more on top of the things for the company .
And that's when I put sleep at the center of my life and said , ok , now we have to build everything around being able to maintain good , positive circadian health . So therefore , like I said , it's not it's not everything , but it impacts everything . So it's in a habit .
From a way it's a keystone habit , and so it's one habit that , if you do that , it has a ripple effect to every part of your life . And so we're always looking for those keystone habits where we can put those in a place while everything else becomes easier .
And then that was my journey to get to to get to that place where I put sleep at the center of my life , but then also to know if I'm going to start another company . I really want to be really good at being able to put these big positive behaviors into my world , and so that also got . Where I got to . Tiny Habits is we're both Tiny Habits coaches .
Right and kind of explain kind of how Tiny Habits helps you with this and and how you use that within stamina lab .
Yeah , so we have , so I use it all the time . I mean it's it's , it's built , baked into some of the things I do and , and you know , make doing that small tiny habit , no matter what uh , that you'll do it , no matter how tired you are or how , um , how much other things are going on .
You know you can have do more than what you want you're going to do . And so , for example , my morning I have a morning movement routine and that , so that is starts with um , some , some uh squats , and just do two squats is the tiny habit . Um , after I , after I get out of the shower , and so then it goes on to a whole bunch of movement activities .
But when I'm pressed for time or I'm tired , I said south by south is going , south by southwest is going on this week here in austin , so there's so many things happening all day into the evening and so the the this morning I was like , okay , I , I don't have time and I'm just going to be able to just do the two squats instead of the whole four minute
more minute routine , and that's uh satisfying um , and that still gets my day started off on the right foot to be able to execute and prepare . So that's just one example of how I use tiny habits and how we use it in Stamina . Lab is all over the place . So we have a two-week bootcamp program that people go through to work on their sleep .
You know we're not fixing everything , but they're moving in the right direction and we can see , through the wearable data , noticeable improvements in lowering their heart rate , which is a sign of recovery , and increasing their heart rate variability , which is a direct sign of the health of their vagus nerve and their nervous system , which is a direct sign of the
health of their vagus nerve and their nervous system , which is also a sign of recovery . And nearly everyone who goes through the program that participates . It's just an easy two weeks and when we teach tiny habits and they pick one or two tiny habits to work on for their sleep and sort of see , oh wow , this has a fantastic impact .
Well , what's the biggest challenge that people come to you with ? They just say I'm burned out or I just can't sleep , and then how do you take that and drill down into really giving them some actionable steps or habits , if you will ?
Yeah , the biggest thing is I'm having trouble falling asleep at night , or I wake up in the middle of the night and I can't go back to sleep . So those are the two main challenges that people have , and really what they're looking for is to have more energy , to be able to have more focus , just to be able to enjoy the day .
Sleep impacts everything you know , from your long-term health to your mental health today , your mood , your enjoyment of life , and so really what we drill down to is asking what difference will having that improving your sleep make ? What difference will those you know ?
Obviously they will have more energy and focus , but what difference will that energy and focus have for you ? And I'll be able to , you know , get all the things at work I want to have done , be able to have the energy to be with my family , my loved ones , my friends , um , be able to be present for them and and be a model for the people around me .
So I think that's really really drilling down to what difference is going to make , and just to continue to ask what else , what else , what else ? or what difference is going to make , just to really get , make it just a full picture with all their , all their senses and and from there then saying all right , well then , let's pick .
Let's pick a workout , tiny habit that can improve your sleep and , as we know , you know it's starting with something that they're going to enjoy . Let's pick something that you enjoy doing and that gets you moving into the belief that you can improve your sleep .
Give us an example of a sleep-related enjoyable habit .
Well , one of the ones I really like to suggest a lot of times is to put your phone to bed before you go to sleep , ideally an hour or two hours . So we set an alarm to wake up in the morning .
So setting an alarm in the evening that says , hey , this is time for my phone to go to bed , and put the phone to bed , you can tuck it in the bed and leave the whole thing . Good night phone .
And this has a really big impact because it reduces the amount of blue light you're going to see and blue light is telling your circadian clock hey , it's still daylight , don't start producing melatonin . That helps me fall asleep . And it also takes away any alerts that are coming in which could release cortisol again to keep you alert and awake .
And and it's signals to your body to start the wind down process . And ideally , if you can take away any of the electronics at this at this point , whatever it is for you in the evening . And I also hear often here like , oh well , once I put my phone away and turn off my TV , what is there to do ?
And so then it's like oh well , maybe then I'll do some light reading or stretching because there's not much else to do . And that guy says , well , I guess I'll go to bed .
Yeah , yeah , yeah .
¶ Understanding Sleep and Building Habits
And then waking up also is an issue too right For some people if they don't sleep all night .
I know it has been for me , so yeah , so our coaches I have a team of coaches that do the deep coaching and the key part of it is using cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia and that's managing , including managing your nervous system , and working on behavioral change , as we just talked about , including tiny habits , and so one of the things that happens we
have a three month program to help improve your sleep , and one of the things that happens about two to three weeks into the program is it gets worse and then it gets better , because one of the things you want to really work on is waking you up at the same time every day .
And so getting up , and even if you're tired , even if you didn't go to bed until 3 am and you need to get up at 7 o'clock 3 am , and you , you need to get up um at seven o'clock yeah you're , you're going to be tired , that , but you're going to then you're going to start to feel tired and go to sleep earlier because you don't want to get into bed
until you do feel sleepy . So at the beginning , when we're adjusting your circadian clock , you're not going to feel , you're still not going to feel sleepy in the evening because you haven't had that uhness , the sleep pressure happening yet .
And so you're like , okay , I'm still staying up , still staying up later , and then slowly you can see how , by waking up at the same time , you start building that sleep pressure earlier and earlier .
It doesn't matter um , what matters is , when you wake up in the morning is getting sunlight as early as you can , and outdoor sunlight , uh , specifically because it is magnitudes more um impactful for setting that circadian clock , and when that master clock , when it sees that sunlight , it says okay , in 14 to 16 hours we're going to start producing melatonin to
allow the body to start falling asleep , and that 14 to 16 hours can start any time when you finally get outside . So if you don't get outside till 11 am , it's 14 to 16 hours later . So that's where we start . With what time do you want to wake up in the morning ? Okay , I want to get up this time . Okay . So then this starts the whole thing up .
When you wake up , when you go outside , when you eat , when you exercise all these , every cell in our body it has its own little clock , but they're all based on that master clock , and so by by working on sleep , you're really working on a person's whole day .
I love that and and I've read , it's 10 minutes of sunlight in the morning . Is that correct or do you know I ?
With Tiny Habits , I would say get outside for a minute , you know , just to get out , yeah , just to get out .
And , and you know , when you get outside for a minute , just like any other tiny habit , you're like oh well , it's nice out here , well , maybe I can pair it with drinking my tea , or , depending on your weather , you might only be able to get out for a minute , but you're getting that minute and it's something that sets that clock to start .
Or if you have a pet , that's another great reason to get outside in the morning . Actually , go out with the pet when it goes outside .
Sure , I love that . Well , how has it worked for you now that you've started a company around a real need , which was one of your needs and challenges ? How are you doing with with sleep , I have to ask .
So I think that's a great point to make . Is that , uh and this includes all the coaches on our team say the same thing ?
Is that even sleep coaches or sleep experts have trouble sleeping occasionally because life happens , stress happens and you know , our nervous systems get , uh , get challenged and and put into that sympathetic fight or flight state and sometimes it's really a in a state that takes a lot to bring it down .
If you know , if you are still managing it and you're still doing the same things , it's , it's , it's a . It's a . I don't want to say wellbeing is a process , it's not a state you get to and so you have to get a practice .
You have to do the practice constantly and and even even when you know all the tools and you have great tools in your toolkit , you still have to do the practice .
Now I would say that I'm much better at getting back to sleep or falling asleep when I wake up and um , and recognizing , when I'm not falling asleep right away , to get back out of bed and wait until I'm sleepy , um , to get into bed .
So if it takes an hour or two or longer and I'm not not getting to bed when I normally want to , and I'll know that , hey , I'm going to be sleepy the next day , but not feeling anxious about it .
And I think that's really where it comes in is that people start to get in this program where they feel anxious about hey , I'm in bed , but if I'm not falling asleep , I'm not going to be able to perform my best in the morning , and therefore it perpetuates and you can't fall asleep .
And meanwhile now your body's associating with being anxious with being in bed and therefore then , as it leads up to it , you start thinking oh , I'm going to go to bed , will I be able to fall asleep ? And this is how people get into the challenge that we help , as Samuel and I we help to solve .
Well , yeah , and you guys are using science to do that . It's all science-backed information that helps them understand why , and they're not beating themselves up all the time about that .
so yeah , and I think , and I think that it's why it's like to say that , hey , even sleep experts have trouble sleeping sometimes they don't beat yourself up . be kind to yourself . It's a key part of behavior .
Design is to be kind to yourself and know that , even if you're not , even if you're not going to get a full night's sleep , that you want to have and maybe have something important to do the next day . I always like to equate it with athletes or musicians or somebody who has a performance the next day .
And I'm a former Division One athlete and I still participate in races now and the night before a race , I don't sleep well . None of my running friends sleep well the night before the race . But yeah , we perform really well and get our PRs , and so what's with that ? Well , that's what I think to remember .
That lesson is that , yeah , it's okay , you'll still be able to perform really well . Don't get anxious about it . You'll be part of the top performer , just like top performing athletes , and the next day you'll feel tired and you'll go to sleep earlier .
Exactly , exactly . And I think it helps to give people permission to just relax about it or let them make a change here or there . And that's what I love about Tiny Habits is , if one way isn't working , you just iterate and go the other , and that's sort of right along the same path that you've done as an entrepreneur .
Yeah , I think having an experimenter's mindset and that's where which were stamina , lab uh , comes from . We obviously having this energy and longevity for the stamina , but knowing it's a lab , you're a lab and you are you . You are the lab and you are your own experiment . Um , and we also like to say you are your own best coach .
Yeah .
And so that that that's kind of sums up the philosophy of how to approach uh both , uh sleep challenges , but also uh life in general , entrepreneurship , all exactly , exactly well , you know I I'm a gallup strengths coach and I always like to ask people what they think their , their top strength is .
And as an entrepreneur , I know you have . I can think of a couple right now . But what ? What do you think is the ?
is your top strength that helps you keep going yeah , I say , I would say lots of times I say creativity , innovation and creativity is a key in there and that's being curious and being open-minded , having that growth mindset , having a stress is enhancing mindset . So that way , when stress comes , it comes to you , it actually can help you grow .
And looking at it from that perspective , I know whenever I'm stuck and I feel like I'm constricted because I'm like , oh , this is the path that I have planned to take , but as soon as I do a protocol , go for a walk , take some breaths to open up physically , open up your brain and your body , and to open up to possibilities and creativity .
I love that and look ahead to the future of Stamina Lab . Where do you see Stamina Lab in a couple of years ? Where do you see you in a couple of years ? Are you going to be doing a spinoff company from this one , or what's next for you ?
Well , we're just getting really just getting started here with Stamina Lab , and my hope is to be able to have many , many sleep coaches and health coaches within our organization helping and health coaches within our organization helping thousands of people improve their behavior to have , like I said , to be able to do , have more energy , have more focus , have more
resilience , to be able to do more things that they care about for as long as they can .
I love that . I love that . Glen , thanks so much for joining me today . I've loved learning more about Stamina Lab and we'll put some things in the show notes for everybody .
Thank you . Thank you , Judy , thank you for having me .
Of course . Well , thank you for listening to Stories of Change and Creativity . I'll put some information about Glen and Stamina Lab and Tiny Habits in the show notes . Remember if you've got a story to share or know someone who does reach out to me at judyoskam . com and please leave a review if you can . I appreciate it . Thanks for listening .