EAGE Special
[00:00:00] Hey there. Welcome back to stories for the future. I have taken the whole summer completely off, but now it's so great to be back and get back into the rhythm with. Work and this podcast and all the different projects. And today we're kicking off this new season with a special episode featuring no less than six different voices.
So that's the first for me. But before that, hold on just a second. So we can play the intro and tell new listeners what this podcast is all about. . This is stories for the future. A podcast on a mission to get you excited and optimistic about a future full of fantastic opportunities. My name is
[00:01:00] and I'm trying to figure out how we can all live good lives, have exciting jobs. And at the same time, take good care of the planet and everyone living here. I want to unlock the superpower. So everyday people so that together we can, co-create a future. We're all excited about. So come join me on this journey. The future is up to us, and I know that we can make it a good one
So I briefly told you about the content of this next season, just before summer. I called that episode, popping the echo chambers. It has to do with exploring how we can foster a better understanding and build bridges between professionals in the oil and gas sector and those on the outside. How can we create spaces where we can actually listen and learn from each other? Without all the [00:02:00] finger-pointing shaming and blaming. I decided to dive back into some of the networks and circles.
I used to be a part of what back when I was working in this industry. Myself and. Kind of to, to put myself back in my old shoes in a way. And one of the networks I used to be a part of, uh, was the European association for geo scientists and engineers. E a G E for short. They have this annual conference, which I used to attend. Quite quite a lot of times actually. And to my great surprise. A while back, I discovered that the next. One, the next annual event would be in Oslo. This June. So I got in contact with some people who were leading that so-called. Energy transition [00:03:00] theater. Which was, I'm a part of the exhibition area of the conference. Quite a small part, I have to say, but still it was there. So I got in contact with these people and they helped me, , Set up a panel. , to lead a panel discussion. On exactly this topic of how to foster better dialogue between the people on the inside, on. And the people on the outside. Oh, the oil and gas industry. So. I got to be there one day and it was really, really
interesting. It was a throwback to the old. The old days. Uh, some things had changed a lot, had not changed.
In addition to the panel conversation. Which I think was a great way to raise this topic. And I believe we got some really interesting. Perspectives. Outwit. [00:04:00] In addition to that, I got to meet some, some more people who gave me some soundbites for this episode. I went into the conference with the aim to bring some voices out to the outside world. Next time. All right.
I hope there's a nice, I will find even more people and even more diversity. But I think this is a good start. So sit back and open your ears and your minds and pretend you were in this huge exhibition hall bursting with people full of Stans from all the companies, lots of technology, lots of free chocolate and creative ways to serve a cup of coffee. I never got to try that. Equinox coffee, where I think you could. 3d print your face in the form or something. But okay, here we go.
So this first soundbite is from IMR. Caslin. EMA is the person that I can find for getting [00:05:00] access to the conference. She was one of the people in charge of setting up the energy transition theater. She works for I Craig, which is a research center for applied geosciences in Arland. And as a geoscientist herself. She has a long history from the oil and gas sector. Here's Imer.
Emer: Hi, my name is Eimear Castlin. I am a geoscientist and I work in sustainable geoscience research. Um, we work with researchers. Looking at climate and environmental change, , adaptation and mitigation for that. We also look at earth resources, the resources that we need, , for economically sustainable society, um, which is energy transition and raw materials.
And we also focus a lot on perception. Um, so that is, whereas we have a, Lot of geoscientists and we also have some social scientists working alongside them to improve perception of all of these [00:06:00] hugely important areas sustainability areas We are now within the big conference focused on oil and gas still, but there's a part here also, uh, about the energy transition and renewables and geothermal and, uh, we had this conversation today with a panel talking about, the perception or the misunderstandings.
From people outside the oil and gas industry about what is happening and what do you think What could lower the fences and remove some barriers between the outside world and an inside oil and gas industry? And also, what should people know about what is happening?
Emer: Okay, tough question. Um, yeah, I think there's a profound lack of understanding of what happens inside these walls. Um, but there's also an overarching kind of [00:07:00] perception that things are not moving. Um, I think to a degree with regards to what's happening in the energy sector and how much effort has been put into energy transition and low carbon technologies.
Um, the reality inside the walls is that there's a huge amount being done. Geoscientists, I'm a geoscientist myself and I'm seeing, um, huge improvements in terms of the repurposing. of the knowledge that petroleum geoscientists have into energy transition, looking at geothermal, carbon capture and storage, looking at really, really, really complex solutions and having the capacity and capabilities to actually repurpose what their skills are into these solutions, these complex solutions that are taking a little while to get off the ground but are certainly improving and developing.
So things like geothermal, things like wind energy, geotechnical, um, [00:08:00] assessments in order to decide where you put your turbines. Um, and also hydrogen, hydrogen storage. So there's a real huge kind of, um, portfolio, I suppose, of, um, energy solutions up and coming. Um, and I think really huge strides as well, but it again probably needs to go faster.
I think the pace of change, even from the inside of these world's fields. a little bit too slow, a lot too slow. Um, but there's certainly efforts and, you know, a question that we were asked about how complicated or simple this is. I really feel certainly when you're in the thick of it and understanding what the barriers are, it is complex.
Um, and we, we need to think more holistically, uh, about those complexities. We need to think geographically and from a geopolitical point of view as well. Um, that we are in the West and it's different for us than it is for, , [00:09:00] those in the, developing South. , and I think that's what equity is. Um, it's been mentioned a few times before as well around the energy trilemma.
Um, this is where we're talking about, , energy for, , environmental sustainability, looking at equity and security. So these are three things. , that are constantly being kind of observed and watched. , sometimes it feels like, from my point of view anyway, that we jump from one corner of that triangle to another, but it is a triangle which requires that balance.
So we always need to be, you know, we can't forget about when we have a situation like we've had in the last two years. And we focus on energy security. That means we cannot stop looking at the environmental sustainability. All these things are hugely important. So, yeah, I think a pace of change certainly needs to be elevated.
. Yeah. So it's, I think what's being done in here and at other, you know, what you can see in other conferences, which reflects [00:10:00] what's happening in the energy sector. It would be really beneficial in both ways for our doors to be more open and for us to collaborate more.
First of all. For for other industries, public and public and meet other industries that can be policy makers can be civil society at large to see actually what's what's happening and the complexities of of of getting advancing the energy transition. But I think potentially even more importantly, opening the doors.
to collaborate more. We are moving into, you know, in terms of the oil and gas sector moving towards the energy transition. It's a very different, um, landscape. Um, it's not, we're not all familiar with what's needed for us and we really need to rely on other, um, sectors and as, as I mentioned before. These sectors aren't as lucrative as, as oil and gas, so we really need to, to, to allow, um, wind energy companies, geothermal energy companies, et cetera, [00:11:00] to, to come in these doors and, and help us in terms of that collaboration as well, because there's huge insights that can be beneficial for us, I think, as well, um, other learnings where the oil and gas industry might be a bit further behind us around this idea of public perception.
You know, the sector is, as you, as we move towards the energy transition, we're coming closer to communities, to society, and potentially to even more opposition in terms of getting low carbon projects off the ground. So that's where we need to be better at engaging, be better at translating what geothermal energy is, what the benefits are of it to society.
The same for for, for wind, for carbon capture and storage as well. These are all things that are, are not understood by society. And um, yeah, we have the, the capacity, I think to be better able to, to explain that.
[00:12:00] So that was Amer highlighting the complexities of the energy sector, the need for foster progress and the importance of collaboration with other industries and sectors. To achieve a balanced and equitable energy transition.
I'm happy to share that EMA is coming back in a later episode where she will. Share more about her work and her personal journey. And also about a super interesting project she has been involved with. Which is mapping geoscience to the sustainability goals. Do you scientists do, you know, can be used for so many things.
Just a wait and see.
The next voice is also from the I crack team. And I will let her introduce herself.
Hannah Binner: So my name is Hanna Binner and I'm a geoscientist, but I'm also the educational engagement officer in ICRAG, which is a research center in Ireland, um, all to do with applied geoscience.
How do you think, That [00:13:00] education and public engagement, can be improved to better tell stories of advancements and new technology efforts towards sustainability within the oil and gas industry. Yeah, so we at ICRAG, we actually do three things with our public engagement, which specifically is for young people to learn about the latest applied geoscience research and maybe get a chance to voice their ideas.
Their concerns and get a chance to think about it a little bit differently. So one thing we do is we go into schools and engage with, uh, teenagers and they get to develop their own project in an overarching theme. And a lot of them would pick like, um, local pollution or they might pick, um, yeah, energy transition, geothermal energy.
And they get to explore the pros and cons of this. And we help them along the way if they have questions, but we don't prescribe necessarily an opinion. But that's something that they wouldn't necessarily have. [00:14:00] in their normal curriculum. And another one. Another way that we engage with schools is teacher training.
So a lot of teachers as part of the continuing professional development training, they have to constantly upskill. And I guess it's limited in a sense of what is on offer for them, because it has to be a certified course. But we were able to do this. So we pair up teachers and geoscientists, and they can just have a conversation and develop a lesson plan from that.
So again, we're reaching teachers and schools. In a way that they wouldn't normally because some teachers may have left their own education years and years ago, and we can't really ask them to do this in their free time, so we get our experts in and again, they can explore as much or as little of a topic as they want, but it is again bringing that conversation in into the classroom, and then we do that also at public festivals and science shows.
So this might be open days at the university or last week we were in a park. And we bring a bit of [00:15:00] our rock samples and we bring a model where we show the public all about mining and we just tell them like, do you realize that what we're mining up here, you mightn't like the idea of mining, but all of this is in your smartphone, all of this is in your car, in your electric vehicle, in your house, like you wouldn't have most things on you right now if you weren't mining.
And if we weren't doing oil and gas exploration, we wouldn't have plastic products. So you're wet. So that you need to swim in Ireland comfortably in the sea and all of that kind of stuff. Like we might not like the idea, but it's become such a part of our daily life that we just want to connect people back to that.
And that's what we're trying to do with all of our outreach or engagement activities. That is really, really interesting. So how do you see this being perceived by, by the audience or by the public? It's actually been really positive because we make such an effort. not to tell them and not to go [00:16:00] into a room and say, we know the answers.
It's an open conversation. So we call this co design co creation and we come in and we might breach a subject, but then they get to ask questions. They get to explore it. And like I said, if they don't. They don't have to necessarily agree with everything and they can do their presentation on that or they can voice their opinions.
And some people do leave our stand at a festival and just go. I'm still not convinced, but at least we've put the thought in there and we've We've opened the discussion because it's actually biggest one if they come up to you and talk to you That's already the first barrier broken It's when they don't even talk to you and as soon as you mention what you're working on they walk the other way that's the problem so in that way we we engage with them just where they're at and Just listen to their concerns in the first place and then try and explain it with Science and facts in a way that actually doesn't bore them out of their minds either So that's pretty much.
[00:17:00] Yeah, do you see? Interests or like excitement from from kids when you visit schools, for instance I do, I do an awful lot. Yeah, they actually, it's amazing, but you wouldn't think it, because you think they've seen rocks all their life and then you bring a few rock samples and you're like, did you know there's lead in this one?
And did you know we actually dug this up in Ireland? This is from the coast. They're like, wow, that's amazing. So there is a big disconnect between like what's actually out there and what they're actually exposed to. And the same thing with like, you showed a periodic table on a table, maybe to a bunch of 10 year olds, and then you.
This is all the, these are all the elements that everything on earth is made up of. Which ones of these do you think are in your smartphone? And they're like, I don't know, maybe a few. They're like, I don't know. Pretty much all of them and their mind is just blown. So it's along those lines like we're just trying to Humanize the science again because it's become this abstract concept and when we do [00:18:00] explain it, I see the excitement I see the click and people just love it and they love that.
It's so close to home This isn't something that's happening in another part of the world. This It's Irish rocks sometimes, Irish research, and they're just amazed that this is something people can work on, because they don't think exciting or fun for geoscience, they think rocks are boring and old fashioned, but it's come so far, and when we actually do tell them what we do, they're like, wow, that's amazing, I never knew you could do that for your job.
You actually get to study geothermal energy, wind energy, you get to look at these rocks and find out how Ireland What Ireland looked like thousands of years ago or millions of years ago, and it's that kind of bringing that back into Yeah into the conversation. It's not just yeah, not just boring or Unrelevant irrelevant.
Thank you, so much, Hannah. I really think that I crag is doing a lot of interesting work. Is the role of geoscience in [00:19:00] everyday life, something you think a lot about? I would think not unless you're a geoscientist yourself and maybe not even then. I don't think a lot about it, to be honest.
So, as you understand by now, I really like, I crack. You should look it up. It's great stuff. I will put the link in the show notes. And, , I have one more voice from there and to just make it easy, I found another HANA as well. This time, we talk about how data once used for mining is now being repurposed. For renewable energy, more specifically. Geothermal energy.
Hannah Othen: Hi, so my name is Hannah Rothen and I'm a PhD researcher at UCD in Dublin as part of ICRAG. My project's about taking all the data available and piecing it together to create some like, um, models for [00:20:00] geothermal. Around the big basin bounding faults in Ireland, so focusing on the carbonates there.
So actually my, most of my data, like the boreholes and the seismic, the petrophysics, has all been done, uh, for the mining, uh, industry in Ireland, which is all zinc. Zinc and lead mines, um, is like the predominant mines there.
Um, but there's a lot of like, it's really dense boreholes and there's a lot of good seismics, um, in specific areas. And all of these have been done with the mining, uh, for the materials in, in mind, but they are super useful for our new projects. based on geothermal. Yeah. Interesting. So, so the conversation we had here today was very much about the, um, mistrust and misconceptions, um, from the outside of the oil and gas industry.
And now we're being here [00:21:00] in this. conference, which is kind of a bubble, uh, that the outside is not very much aware of what is happening inside. So what do you think are the biggest barrier or the biggest misconceptions perhaps, uh, from the outside towards those working in the energy sector and, and oil and gas?
So to start with the mines, I suppose there's still a negative opinion towards mining and a lot of the people outside. Um, the geosciences won't understand that even for phones and stuff, where they won't have a phone without mining for these, uh, elements and different materials and hospitals and all of that stuff.
So, this negative opinion towards mining is because of a lack of knowledge, I suppose, of what we need the mining, the mines for, is for the stuff we use every day, like, we wouldn't be able to live our lives so comfortably without this [00:22:00] stuff. And then I suppose with the oil and gas is that we can't expect it to happen overnight and I think that's what a lot of people are maybe not trusting the new greener energies because they just haven't worked overnight, you know, so we need to kind of spread that it's a process, a transition.
Um, so we can't just stop oil and gas straight away. And so we can just like, I suppose. Yeah, the word transition. Yes. Go from the oil and gas, slowly move away from it as we create new technologies and new sustainable energies.
I think I keyword hair is transition. Meaning that is, it is a change that goes over a period of time. And then people will, of course not agree about how long that period is, but I think we often forget the meaning of the word transition. And also what she said about [00:23:00] knowledge, how can the industry share more knowledge openly so that people understand, and also without people questioning their motive, That is a tough one. And I guess. This is where research centers like I crag and other independent organizations play an important role.
One of the aspects of the energy transition that I'm most excited about. And that I feel we need to talk a lot more about is how. Technology skills, data, people, et cetera, from the oil and gas sector can be used or repurposed. To speed up the transition. Not only to speed that up, but actually to make it more enjoyable, to talk about and work with for everyone. My next soundbite is from a professor at the Delft university of technology.
And he addresses exactly this topic. [00:24:00] Here is the best in Geiger.
Sebastian Geiger: My name is Sebastian Geiger. I am the professor for sustainable geoenergy at the Delft University of Technology and I conduct research and teach on how we can characterize the geology in the subsurface more effectively and faster to accelerate the energy transition by scaling geothermal energy, CO2 storage projects, hydrogen storage projects.
What are some innovative technologies or practices in the oil and gas industry that you think deserve more public recognition? So I think what we can learn from the oil and gas industry and as we are trying to accelerate the energy transition by delivering new targets for example for geothermal energy or CO2 storage or hydrogen storage It's the way we tease out new ideas.
Information about the subsurface, what geological structures in the ground beat using geophysical techniques [00:25:00] and sound waves to the subsurface. How we drill wells, how we model the flow of fluids, not oil and gas, but this time, for example, hot water or CO2 and brine in the subsurface. Really well established techniques that we can adapt very quickly.
And the emphasis here is on quickly, because if you want to be net zero by 2050, you want to have geothermal energy. CO2 storage, hydrogen storage at the scale we need it to be net zero by 2050. We don't have the time to reinvent the wheels. We really need to think about adapting, repurposing tools like seismic data.
Geophysical techniques to find the spots where we have hot water in the subsurface. We can locate the co2 storage space You can model the geology in the subsurface or simulate the flow of hot water of co2 of hydrogen in the subsurface So for for parts of the audience who are not experts in geosciences, these are Technologies that we have been using within geoscience for [00:26:00] decades, right?
So it would be quite easy to adapt them. Exactly. So these, these have been developed and been used and successfully used very successfully used for many decades sometimes for 50 years and they are Yeah, the idea is how do we make them, how do we make them more cost effective, how we can make them, um, use them in, in situations with less data available, because a geothermal project is not going to be economically as lucrative as an oil and gas project.
So we need to think about how we make them more cost effective, how, simply how we adapt and repurpose, refit existing tools. That is very exciting, I think. Another question for you. What do you think is the most significant barrier to better understanding between energy professionals and environmental advocates?
I think the most significant barrier here is, and it's perhaps a very [00:27:00] strong word, but it's lack of trust and our lack of listening to the other point's view, the other side's view. I think. I've been in meetings with people from Extinction Scientist, from Stop Oil, and if you're in a safe environment where we're listening, where we're coached, and the coach facilitates, that we listen to the other people's viewpoints, and we realize that people, that persons, who have the very best at heart for our society, and we, um, Are less dogmatic in our views and we try to learn from each other and we can start, really start to rebuild this trust.
And actually all what we all want to do is achieve the same goal, which is sustainable future, where children can prosper, where the goal south is going to prosper. We may have slightly different ideas of the not slightly different ideas, how we can get there, and we need to adapt our ideas. But [00:28:00] it all starts from basis of trust.
And I think that trust at the moment is often lacking. Yes, biggest barrier. So, so the, the, we, I think everyone agrees on the goal and where we disagree or, um, is the, the best ways to reach this goal.
I don't think there's, there is a server. bullets and they're going to be huge, ethical, more delamorous. Um, and where we need to make some form of compromise at the end of the day, be it in the way we produce energy, the way we consume energy, the way we change our own way of living, that we become more energy efficient.
Um, we consume less resources in general. Um, so that multiple ways. And I think we only, Um, reach that goal if we listen very carefully to each other, put personal opinions, personal viewpoints behind and focus on learning, [00:29:00] um, rather than educating.
Oh, yes. I liked that. Focus on learning rather than educating. And figure out how to find some common ground instead of always coming back to the disagreements.
So, where are the people actually working in the oil and gas companies you might ask? Well, here is one of them. This is Sigrid. from Ecuador.
Sigrid: My name is Sigrid Borten Toven. I work in Equinor. I've been working there for twenty seven years and now I'm heading up a unit within the low carbon solutions part of the company. So in your view, what are the most effective ways to foster better understanding and dialogue between professionals in the oil and gas sector and the general public?
I think there are several aspects to this, but one important thing is for people within the industry [00:30:00] and also professionals like geoscientists that they can translate quite complex topics into more understandable language so we can have a debate and conversations together that we are not sitting in each other's bubble and just pointing at each other because that will not foster anything.
What would you really like people outside the industry to know about the work that you are doing? What do you think get lost in translation, maybe through media or other outlets? I think one of the reasons is that people do not listen as soon as somebody from the industry coming.
It's like the tobacco industry talking about their issues. We are perceived in the same way. So I would love to have that kind of really deep listening without biases to what we are doing because we have so many really excellent [00:31:00] people working within the industry. trying to solve this energy trilemma about having sustainable energy at the same time affordable energy and have enough energy for everybody.
And these are complex topics. It's not a simple yes or no answer or it's not simple. You can just stop doing oil and gas. Yeah, you can reduce it, but you cannot stop it to have this kind of conversations with More than just headlines. That would be really good. Can you see any arenas where we can have more of these conversations?
That's a good question. It's, where do we go? I think if every geoscientist Uh, some kind of understanding of this, that they have this debate in when they are meeting their friends, the families go to schools, the kids schools and talk about what is, what is it that we are [00:32:00] doing at the same time being on social media talking about it.
And then of course the media itself needs to be thought about what's going on. But then we are back to the dilemma that I meet that, but you are working in the industry. How can we trust what you are saying because you are brainwashed. So it's, that is kind of the dilemmas that I see.
Do you notice something interesting? All these people coming to the issues from different angles are actually more or less saying the same. We need better dialogues, more knowledge, better understanding. And last but not least more trust. If the industry keeps being met with this trust, no matter what they do or say. It must be really hard to take part in the conversation.
Um, no last, but absolutely not least. In my final soundbite for today, we have vicki O'Connor working on spreading the word on how important [00:33:00] geo science really is for our future.
Vicy: so my name is Vicki O'Connor and, uh, I have a voluntary role as co CEO of a nonprofit organization called Geology for Global Development. So, geology for Global Development was founded back in 2015, uh, by a, a geoscience researcher who.
just realized that, um, often geoscientists just sit in a bubble and don't kind of get out there and explain the role of geoscience to, you know, advancing sustainable development. And he was particularly interested in the role of geoscience in, um, helping society achieve the UN Sustainable Development Goals.
So, um, As a, a non profit, our kind of purpose is to advocate, do research, engage in forums like the UN. Um, so we send people to CARP and, and different forums like that to, to talk about how geoscience can play a role in actually achieving not just, you know, SDG 7, which we heard about on the panel, but actually the other SDGs as well, [00:34:00] so.
I think this is such important work, because it's, at least in Norway, it's often. Geology and geophysics is very much related to oil and gas, but there's so much more. So can you mention a few things, like just some examples? Because the audience is mostly not involved in oil and gas, so just to give them a few ideas.
Yeah, sure. So I think when people think about geoscience, they think about geophysics. Oil and gas and think about mining, but if you actually look at the the the breadth of the UN sustainable development goals Then actually geoscience plays a role in almost all of them. So whether it's groundwater research or groundwater resource management for Sustainable city development, for example, you know, people don't necessarily associate geoscience with that kind of, you know development activity But of course geoscientists are the ones who have to be involved in assessing, you know Accessibility of that water resource Um, you know, adjacent to the infrastructure that you're [00:35:00] developing for that city that you might be expanding.
So, I think, yeah, it's interesting the work we do takes us into lots of forums where often we're the only geoscientists in the room. And we're often asked, you know, why are you here? But then we say, well actually, you know, if you look at, you know, the plan for, um, you know, the nationally determined contributions for a country, for example.
Often they haven't been critiqued by geoscientists, so people are proposing things around, you know, say it's the development of wind resources, but no one's thought about the critical mineral, mineral aspect of it. So it's understanding the complexity of air science and how it actually comes to bear on these different, you know, development plans that individual countries or regions are developing that, , is, you know, George has kind of forgotten from that conversation.
So that's what we do. We try and give a voice to the geoscientists and the geoscience community. in those international forums to explain why, , we are critical for, the future of humanity, essentially.
I mean, what a great way to end this [00:36:00] episode. Geoscientists are critical for the future of humanity. I like that. And I promise this is something we will talk more about in a later episode. Very interesting topic. I have to say.
And with this, we say goodbye. And thank you to that. E a G E annual conference in Oslo. Thank you for letting me come back to my old sandbox. It was fun. Really interesting. Generated many new thoughts and some of the old feelings. But most of all, I'm so grateful to the wonderful people. Taking part in the panel conversation and the people giving me their thoughts and ideas for this episode. Full episodes and conversations with panel participants will follow later among them.
Emaar Caslin who you already met. And who is one of the people who decided to leave the industry a few years back. [00:37:00] And there are many more, very exciting conversations coming up all in some way related to the energy transition and with an effort. To burst some bubbles and pop some echo chambers. Until next time have good days.
And I will talk to you soon.