Wide Awake ("Dreams Come True" S1 EP 13)

Still the Place with Laura Layton, Courtney thorn Smith and Daphne's Aniga and iHeartRadio podcast. All right, guys, we're back for another. How is everyone? How are you good?

So good? Laura, your hair looks amazing.

Thank you. I got layers. It looks go like an onion. I think it's layers. Is that like a first for you or something?

Or no?

I just I think I just ignore my hair and I let it just grow. And it had been like just straight and all one thing for such a long time because I'm just sort of lazy and I don't usually schedule haircuts.

So I found amazing than yeah it.

I got my hair done yesterday, but it's the same haircut I've had since high school, so I don't expect a lot of it.

Well, it always looks good.

Then it's always you're just noticing, like, oh, look mine is a little bouncy.

And I try something different than I go never mind, and then I come exactly where what I know.

To somebody talk me out of bank the next time I want to do banks, Just somebody said, no, You've done that so many times, Laura, don't do it.

I brought her pictures this time, and I was showing them to her. And by the time I showed her all the pictures, I said, so, let's just do what I have, but just clean it up.

Let's start longer. We can always go shorter instead of all these pictures. Let's just take a quarter inch off the bottom. All yeah, just take off the dry ends. But this is a picture I want to look like. But no, don't really do it now.

I'm just noticing, like, all of a sudden, we all have the same length hair right now, and we're kind of having the same hair moment.

Huh.

I never noticed that before.

I think it's a kind of universally flattering length. And I think that whenever I try something else, I don't have the energy to maintain the haircut. And I brought her all, I kept bringing your pictures because here's the thing. These are curled and styled. These are red carp pictures. Are you going to do that every day? I am not. Okay, Then I picture.

I used to pull pictures from like, you know, Vogue, right, So they spent seven hours on this one shot with backlighting and phil and like and then color correction and everything. I'm like, I like this, and so then they would do it or something, and then it's like it never looked it because one wash and it just looks like.

Boom and the lighting crew isn't following you around.

Yeah right, and you're not rude of them, dang it.

Yeah, we should just bring in pictures of ourselves on better days, like this is when Friedman did my hair?

Can you can you do this for me?

Way I'm back in nineteen ninety four.

Never ends. Oh boy, our desire for that per perfection, you know, as if we weren't already there enough hair, Let's get to some serious stuff.

Yes, so close to Daphne appearing in this show, which I'm super excited about. But for now, we're on episode thirteen, so it's two episodes away from daff Episode thirteen. We're doing a recap today and the episode's title is Dreams Come True. Episode thirteen sort of landed during sweeps week at the time, which is a big like sort of ratings measurement.

Yeah back when ratings.

And that was the original order, like the show was ordered for thirteen episodes, and it was ostensibly maybe the last one that they decided to do, except that you'd gotten your back nine pickup well.

And this is when you know, like I've talked about how we weren't doing really well, but we just read an article that would touch on later in the show, but it says about this. It says in this article La Times, and in La Times thank you. Following an intensive promotional campaign a big July premiere, Melrose took a dive and currently ranked at the ty Says ranks for at the time, number two out of ninety eight network primetime series. I didn't know we were.

That, like, no, not number two, number ninety ninety two out of ninety that's a difference.

Yeah, I mean, I am. Did it sound like I said? Number two? Yeah, ninety two. I'm really. It's really kind of miraculous that we made it long enough for you guys to come on, and Heather to come on, and the show to turn around into a hit. This is like these days. Yeah, you would not be given that chance. We would not have been given a chance.

But this is all starting to fall into place for me because we read in that article how low the ratings were. The stories have been even before now, because this article appeared October twenty six, nineteen ninety two. This episode appeared October twenty eighth, My Birthday, Thank You, nineteen ninety two. So it was all and we'll see why in this episode, the big story that happens other than Alice and ignoring red flags but red banner alert. Things

Charging Yeah, stories, stories are getting a little bit more steamy. And that is a good segue into the opening scene.

Of this episode from Done Laura.

It opens at the beach house where Allison and Keith are waking up making out serious making out body.

Like opens on full on make it and what have my shoes on the bed?

And well it's like you're trying to get you already did dress for work? You were trying to get out of the door to work.

He's not bothered to I have to get dressed, and I'm like, what is this thing you're wearing with my heels on?

With those really ugly office pumps. They were so not sexy, but really they're like so unattractive and were.

Those shoes where it was all about the makeout?

You guys, It was a.

Long, involved makeout and of course, because I'm very mature, I have my hand over the screen. I'm going no, I can't wait till you guys have to watch yourself. It's super uncomfortable.

Dread totally. They're making out. She's trying to tear her quickly.

If my son ever misbehaves, which she hasn't, but if you ever, I'm going to make him watch this episode.

Can you imagine if it's hard on me?

Can you imagine? What did you make out?

Yeah, nobody's can't want to see their parents therapy for yourself, like did.

You get grounded? No, but she made me watch her make out with.

Some guy on TV. Super torture and even I can see run mom, run, get out of there.

But at the same time, when she's trying to tear herself away for work, Keith is saying come back tonight.

Alison tries to tell him you know, I really.

Need to check in at home, my apartment and my friends, and I just I've got stuff to do. I've been here so much. And he says, well, I'd love to meet your friends.

That's maybe not what she was trying to say, but she sort.

Of considers it and says, okay, all right, why don't you come to Shooters tonight then, so she FTEs him there, and then we cut to the apartment where she is at home in her space with Billy. She's in a turquoise dress. At her apartment, she's hustling around and Billy is telling her that love is blind and stupid, and Allison is.

Saying, you don't understand. I am happier than I've ever been in my entire life.

I loved when he said love is blind and stupid. And I'm yelling like then i've ever been. I'm like, I am so happy. I was like, da, you don't sound happy.

But she's stomp out a little dense, angry, and I love it that she's like it's these two young kids. Like she's like with her little scrunching matching turquoise, with her little dress and her little sweater, and she just came out of her little room with all the dolls, and she's like, you're so immature. You just don't understand.

And he's like, I think you're stupid.

His cereal to get it over with you too, you belong together.

Well, he's trying to, he's trying to point it out to her that she's not being very smart about this whole thing, but she's angrily refusing to listen, so out she stumps, and then we cut to shooters. Sandy is bringing drinks to a guy a.

Little creepy but I think a little nerdy too.

On top of that, well, they wanted to make him they wanted to make you think that he wasn't really he said he was right.

She's got that long, curly hair. I mean, I was just like, didn't you anyway? Go ahead, Laura? What does he saying to her? Who is he?

So he introduces himself as a casting director for a soap opera called Forever and Tomorrow. Sandy just isn't buying it, and she's like, yeah, right, you know, and he then says, no, really, I really think he got a great look and you could be as big as Kim.

Say no more. Yeah, they made up pretty sure that wasn't it. Yeah, but I heard it like Kim say no more. Yeah, And I think it was like Saint.

Elmore or something like that, probably, but the way he said it, I was like I wrote down, Kim say no more.

They did really cast him as some like sleeves ball, like who has nothing going on? Well that you're like, as the audience, going eh, gross, because you're not supposed to believe yeah, person, I've ever really we're not supposed to believe it either.

Yeah.

So she walks away like yeah, whatever you know, and then we pan over and the gang, the rest of the gang is playing pool, asking Alison some questions about Keith.

Did you see that adorable three shot of Sandy, Josie, and Ronda. I'm mixing all my character in real name.

They were all there that scene at the pool tables because.

Shot of them.

Yeah, really cute having everybody altogether.

And Matt is in that scene too, And they're.

Asking Allison about Keith boxers or briefs.

That's like a but I think this is before boxer briefs. I don't think we had boxer briefs yet. At this time, it was either boxers or a huge boxers right or the then they finally figured out we can combine them and make the perfect underpants for men.

Did you guys notice I made I made Doug watch this episode with me too, and he noticed, Wow.

Was that like for him? Was he? He?

Well, he's sort of you know, he's just sort of funny about stuff, and he's like, wow. I certainly had helium voice in that scene, because the minute he speaks is like, oh my god, my voice is like so high.

We laughed about that, and I think it's just being young and being nervous. So my voice was kind of up here, like I'm just so much more grounded at this point in my life that my voice is more grounded. I think we were all to the excitement and you don't quite breathe into your center. I don't notice it in anybody else, but I noticed the exact same thing.

And you go to your voice class. I remember going to voice class and acting class and dropping your down and so you're like, okay, I got it. Then you're going to set, you're like, oh my god, I can't believe that you're going to really go Well, what he he's married. I think everybody kind of and you run out of air because you're so excited, except.

For except for Grant, Jay is always going to have his booming, deep voice. Yes, but I think all the characters we're going to notice, Wow, that's like the little kid.

Voice, the little kid version. I know that my character's going to come off very kid.

I can't even wait all that stuff. And I feel like we thought that with all the nine o two. I know people too, like we noticed, Wow, their voices really haven't changed yet, Like everybody just seems like little kid versions of themselves.

Yes, so true.

So here Matt excuses himself from shooters. He says he has to attend at dinner date. Allison then admits to the girls that Keith is married.

She's really bad timing right, like he's about to commit either. Don't tell them because why would I be surprised that my married friend is not.

A fan disappointed?

And why would I think that Jane would be anything but annoyed with me?

I kept thinking that all the way through the episode. Why would she tell anyone? Why would she did she tell her boss? Why does she tell Billy? Like? Why, dummy? Do you know what I mean?

I guess she's acknowledging the red flag, but not really undling it correctly.

Yeah. I think that she gets to it in the last scene, kind of gets to why. But I was thinking the same thing, like, either don't tell everybody or do something about it.

Yeah.

So she's talking with the gang and Jane sort of says, well, I'm assuming that Keith and his wife are separated, and Allison says, well, no, but the marriage is dead.

Yeah, and they're not exactly.

She doesn't understand him.

Everyone's like, hmmm, they're not quite convinced on that.

You know. I love court that she says about it. She said it so declaratively, as like the marriage is dead.

Like, yeah, that's so defensive.

Yeah, that's a thing, you dummies. It's a repeating the word, you know, the marriage is dead. Not a not a great time for Keith to enter the scene, but he does, and it is super awkward and Alison is not really interested in staying for all that awkwardness, so she says, you know what, let's.

Just go and let's just go home.

And after they leave, Jeane says to RNDA that Keith is going to break Allison's heart and.

I thought that was so sweet. That she's not saying Allison shouldn't do that, She's just having compassion for Alison. That's a really good, generous friend.

That's sweet, And I love like Melose's Place is about friendship. It's about That's what the whole background is, you know, through all of the years is on and I just love that they explore in all these situations like what she does choose to tell her two girlfriends and what do they do? You know what I mean, like you watching it, going like what would I do in that situation? What when my friends what are they supposed to do? Like are they supposed to just back me and something

I wonder if the network, like even though our ratings were love, if the network noticed the show was getting better and better and better, Because I see the show getting better and better and better. So maybe they noticed it and thought, oh, because that was when they would actually talk about things, not just the ratings, like yeah, but the show's maybe we can find an audience. We're so lucky they did.

Yeah, But it's also like there's a delay, like the ratings. I think there's like a delay, like you have to have a couple of great episodes that people start talking about to go, oh, no, more people come to n in. Even though there were number ninety two of ninety eight.

It's like because of the episodes.

That led up to that, like you know, it was the cumulative lead up, and then I think when it turns around, it's just like a slow rise of like catching up. So yeah, I agree, the episodes are getting better, but the numbers.

When we were on for years, I remember, you know Chip, whenever Chip, our producer, would walk on set, you know, everyone ask him what were our numbers last night? What were they last night? You know what I mean.

But also Fox at the time had lower numbers, They had fewer markets, so they didn't have as high expectations. But even considering that ninety two of ninety eight is not great.

Not great.

No, this episode being our sweep sweek episode, trying to, you know, bump things up, and we're just getting to

Super violent, superer violent.

Yeah, they really they did not hold back. That was hard for me to watch. What was it like for you, Laura, I imagine.

Yeah, I mean it was it was It was like a it was the first time we'd seen anything like that on the show, like the super violent, like we're going to see it all and you know, and Matt was trying to defend himself, but he's you know, he's got three guys who clearly are after him and targeted him.

And this is what this We can bring up the article now that the article in the La Times because this was a big deal, was called Melrose to tackle gay bashing television. The homosexual character on Fox's Melrose Place takes center stage when he is publicly assaulted and fired from his job. So that comes later a little bit of a spoiler, but like, this is all at the top of in the zeigs. This was happening, and our show took it on.

Yeah, a huge, huge storyline for our gay character, Matt, and so yeah, so he's left on the sidewalk bleeding, and we cut to Jane and Michael and they're talking in bed about Allison and her affair with a married man, and Michael.

Then says, well, it's only human.

You know, I've read anough choir magazine that two thirds of married men have affairs that can't be right.

And Jane is like what.

And he then sort of tries to backpedal and saying, well, you know, I'm not talking about myself.

But you know, in this episode at least.

Yeah, and then the and then he sort of turns it around tried to say, well, Jane, you can't possibly say that you've never noticed another attractive guy. I mean, like, what about you and Jane considered present and she's like, okay.

Well may maybe once or twice. And then he's like, well what.

So they had this like sort of comedy back and forth of like wait what.

You have but.

You oh, you know, they were sleeping. They were sleeping and they're in bed, and when she brings it up and she flips on the light, she's like, what do you mean It's normal human behavior. And then he's like, come on, you can't say you haven't been attracted. He's trying to way to sleep, and then she goes, oh yeah, maybe yeah, once or twice, and then she goes to bed like okay, we're done. And then he's like it's silent, beat beat beat, What do you mean once or twice?

Do you think they're setting the stage for his future shenanigans?

Probably?

I mean it feels like a couple episodes they've been sort of alluding to it a little a little ways where she's sort of filting her head going wait, what would you just say? What do you mean? I should be jealous? In the other episode and like wait, what do you mean that many? It's like normal to you that that many married men consider or have affairs.

What. I don't think that number can possibly be right? Don't you think that sounds for.

The purposes of this two Well, you know, I don't know. They are pretty accurate. Yeah, I don't know.

I have no idea. Maybe two out of three Esquire readers.

Maybe that's where the that's where they asked macators. Yeah, should have said that. I just like that she got one in on him and then rolled over.

And then when they both turn off the lights, they both are going to sleep just.

A little bit uncomfortable, wondering. Not exactly what I had in mind with that conversation.

So we cut back to Keith and Allison back at the beach house, and Keith is trying to reassure Alison don't worry. When your friends get to know me, they'll like me. And Allison says, you know, I really do have a ton of work to do and I really should go back to my apartment.

My work is there.

And he says, all right, well you can, you can stay to moor night. I just want you to be happy. They they kiss, The kiss gets deeper.

I had a moment just interjecting before the kiss and thought could she's starting to like pay attention, She's starting to say, I need to go get back to my own life, and I go good for and then they start kissing.

Kiss goes on and she does not actually leave and they sort of like dribble back into the house.

Row.

Yeah, so she tried, but no, so lots of making out for.

Allison, so much making out.

He was a good kiss, right, Number one torture episode for yourself. Did you guys have nice banter and chemistry in between shots and stuff and made it easy to do all this stuff?

Or yeah he was nice. I mean I was super duper in love with Andrew at that time. Like we were like pretty hot and heavy at that point. So it was kind of like everyone's like, not Andrew. You know, I'm going to like, yeah, you're a nice guy. Not Andrew. I just wanted to get back and you just.

Had a job to do. But you learned in your acting classes that you're supposed to substituted, so you put Andrew's face on him whenever you had to like be totally in love with him, right, I'm sure that's what you did. Corney's just very professional. She was just doing her job.

Was just stupid, but that's you know, people have so much trouble believing that and it's true, right, like people go it must be super sexy, and it's like a little bit. Maybe the first kiss is kind of but then on take four you're like, oh, come on, can we move on to a talking scene. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think by the time Billy and Allison were dating, Andrew and I had broken up.

That's not convenient at all.

But what maybe I'm wrong, Maybe I'm wrong. We'll know more kids. We broke up the hiatus after season one, so I don't think we got together in the first season.

We'll see so rude of the writers. Okay, all right.

So at this point in the episode, Jake is returning home, walking through the courtyard and he sees Matt who's doubled over at his own apartment door.

Oh this is so sad, ach and goes.

Over to him and realizes that Matt needs help.

He's very bloodied and in lots of pain, and Jake says, I'm taking you to the hospital.

And playing it so well. Doug did such a great scene, such a great job in the scene. My heart went out to him, and I was so glad that Jake said, no, I'm taking you to the hospital because he was so like he couldn't even work his keys, he was so messed up.

Yeah, oh yeah. He was really working the sensory, the sensory of the pain. Couldn't you could you feel it?

Job?

He was really good with all that. It was so hard to watch.

So at the hospital, Matt is in a wheelchair and he's in the waiting area talking to some cops telling them what happened. Did you guys notice you know, the voice in the back of the hospital, and they do, like, doctor Mencini, please report to me.

I didn't notice that they do that.

They didn't do a doctor Mancene because he's not a doctor yet, but later they will all the time, like you'll hear doctor mancyin. I heard doctor Hannish. Do you remember who that was? Our production is our post production right? Yeah?

Post production? I heard her name.

They plopped it in there, and she's a doctor, not a real doctor. But anyway, so Matt is telling his story and he's they're saying, well, I think what you need to do is call the Hate Crimes Division, but I'm just warning you they might not be able to help. So they sort of recognized that it was probably a hate crime and not just you know, just a random beating.

Up or whatever.

And then the female cop says to Jake, take care of your boyfriend, and Jake says, very matter of factly, he's not my boyfriend, and the cop says whatever an exit.

Yeah, a little weird, and that's all very I mean, I that made me go, that's so common that they don't care. They're not looking at them as individuals. They're making all these assumptions and just because he's a guy that whatever. Was like, yeah, I don't believe you.

You just yeah, And they're not gonna come out and say, oh yeah, we're you know, like that. It's not a safe sort of statement at this point to say, yeah, this is my boyfriend and he just got beat up.

Whatever.

So when he says he's not my boyfriend, she's like, yeah, whatever, and she leaves. And then Jake says to Matt, Okay, so we just handle this thing ourselves, and you know, let's find the guys and let's go after him. And Matt says that finding him and beating him up just won't solve anything. It's not really the answer, and he's a little frustrated. And then he gets up out of

I a very old man here.

He is like, I'm limping like I'm when he say fester and gun smoke uncle fist.

But they kicked him. I thought it was good, Like I said before, I thought he did a really good job. We're at yep.

I think he's being hard on himself in the same way that court.

Guys just wait, like we're gonna yeah, you just wait.

We're gonna make fun of our so fun. Okay.

So then back at the apartment in the morning, Ronda and Billy are at Matt's apartment making him breakfast at his apartment, and he is very grateful, although he makes a joke about what I need to get beat up to get breakfast, you guys, And then Billy says, yeah, the streets are tough, they're rough, and you know the same thing happened.

To me, And Matt says, well, Billy, it really wasn't the same thing at all.

Yeah, you know, I was targeted because I'm gay. And Ronda and Billy then try to tell Matt that maybe they'll catch the guys, and Matt really doubts it and he leaves the kitchen saying he needs to get ready for work.

Yeah.

I just felt like, Billy, one more time, you stick your foot in the mouth. And he's always you know, this isn't again, he was targeted. He's gay, just like he was saying something about just general violence in general down in South sude with about Rhonda that whole episode, and here he is again he's not tuning in to people who you know, are different, are targeted and have different realities than his. And he can't just whitewashes everything.

The reality that Matt is living with and dealing with.

And he even at the drive, sorry, that would drive Andrew crazy because he's so politically conscious. It drove him crazy to have to be the guy who never understood to be that God.

They did have Billy go Yeah, you're right, you're right, it's not the same thing. But it's like the learning moment has to happen in the dialogue.

And like, but he didn't have a learning moment we want him to. But his very I had made a note here, his very Matt leaves in his very last scene, he's line is Matt's and denial. It's the same thing. He says, Matt's and denial, like it's part of his shock. So he didn't he's slow to learn.

Well what I think, But I think in that moment he's saying like it took him a while to understand the trauma he'd been through, and matth she all go to work now, and it's like, hold on, like can you process this for a minute. I know what you're saying, and I would say yes, And it's also a valid point, right that Billy's talking about his life. Then all of a sudden it hit him. Wait a minute, I've been through something. And I think he's saying that it's going to hit Matt, which it does.

But his line of all I'm saying is I think he didn't quite get it because he said I went through the same thing. Oh, I matched the denial. But I think it's both. I think you know this is a series, and clearly they the numbers were low, but they wanted to go a long time and so everything has to be gradual, you know, like he's growing as a character. He's coming to fruition.

We cut to Alison at D and D where Billy walks in and he's bringing her some files that she's clearly requested that he bring for her. She apologizes to Billy for not coming home last night, and then she realizes that she needed two files and Billy has only brought one, and Billy is super annoy when she sort of asks him to go back and get the other one, and he says, no, Keith should go back and get it for you. Go ask Keith, and rightfully so. Then

She doesn't have it, Lucy is pissed.

She says Alison needs to get her act together or she's gonna lose your job. And then she says, Wow, that Keith must be a really great guy.

Yeah, complicated, and then Lucy goes, oh my god, he's married Lucy. Of course. Deborah Dare our producer's wife.

She was wonderful, and she's so wonderful in this. She's so warm. She does a great thing of being the boss, but really warm to Alison. Allison is very lucky to have her because she is very forgiven, very paid center. Yes, and then this kind of stuff because Alison and I share very organized, very on top of things, and when Alison is dropping the ball, I am sick to my stomach and just like no, no, no, no, no no.

It's very hard for me to make crazy.

Like the married man. Yeah, but honestly, the not getting your work done on time is.

Because I'm just you know, I have to wear the same at home. Ew.

Yeah, Like when Andrew would come to work and he'd be going, what's the scene we're on, I'm like, you didn't learn it?

Like I couldn't.

May It was so hard for me because I'm so earnest about that stuff. So it's very hard for Allison and I to drop the ball in that way.

Well, hopefully she's going to learn her lesson here. Well yea.

So we then cut to Matt who's at the Halfway House where he works, and he's leading a group of teens and talk therapy and he's encouraging the kids to talk on today's subject of anger, and one of the kids doesn't really want to talk Matt wants to sort of encourage him to explore, and he pushes a kid to the point where the kid eventually has an outburst and he throws a chair, and after the kids breakthrough, Matt gives the kid a.

Hug, and it's it's a really nice moment where.

He's you know, he's trusted by these kids and he's doing his job. And we see then that all of this has been observed by Matt's supervisor, who's.

And you see how good Matt is at his job. Right, He's really good at connecting to the kids and listening and he meets them on their level. Like I thought, that was my entire takeaway from the scene as well. He's really good at this.

Yeah, he's great at it, and his boss witnesses him being great at it. Yeah, which is important for later that Matt is great at his job. So then we cut to Sandy telling Ronda that she has their at their apartment. She's telling Rounda that she has an audition for a new part on the soap Forever and Tomorrow. So gosh, apparently that nerdy guy was a casting director after all, And they're flying Sandy to New York for the audition, and she and Ronda are both super excited.

I guess clearly fans of the soap Okay, I need to stand they wrote down some lines because she's like, oh my god, you got an audition on Forever and Tomorrow. And she's like yeah, as a sexy new neurosurgeon. And then Ron is like, ah, hey, you think she's going to help Booth recover his memory of seeing Montana strangle Liz. And then Sandy shays no because you'd have to remember

Auditions are nerves. But when I did Two and a half Men, and it started off as like four episodes, and then I did it for five years, and it was every time I walked onto that set because I was a fan beforehand. So when you walk onto a show and you're already a fan and you've been in this set as a viewer so many times and you get to walk on the set and play with the people you've been watching for years, that was crazy. I

So when you first went in to meet like Chuck, Laurie or whoever, were you out of your mind or were you kind of got to play it cool and funny or do you remember?

Look, auditions are always terrifying, right, Like they're always terrifying. Then it took a little while to do the deal. But and it was because I was a recurring guest, like you get rehired every time. I never had a contract, like I got to get the job like a hundred times, like I hired for the job. It was always exciting.

Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, you don't have any memories, Laura for something. I know it's probably Melrose place, right, you were.

Like, oh my god, melros I mean I was excited for that show.

That's faily No.

I remember ninety two when you.

Guys got on.

Yeah, there was also there were some auditions that I was excited about, like the material that I didn't get the job, And one of them was actually for Desperate Housewives or the role of Brie that Marsha Crosse ended up playing, and I auditioned for that role as well. And I can't imagine it any other way, Like, I can't imagine it. It's not Marsha Cross, you know, she's so great in it.

Whatever time I remember ready he.

Was auditioning for his role I was auditioning for. We were both auditioning, and wow, a weird sort of small world story there is that the creative Desperate Housewives Mark Cherry I had actually known since my youth and childhood. We were we were in Young Americans sort of together, which was a song and dance company that I sort of one of the first things I did when I came out here.

I was with Wow Americans like Cherry people, you mean like you went around similar yeah, tours and stuff like that. And Mark when he when.

Doug walked in for his audition for Desperate Housewives, Mark got up and offered his hand and he said, Hi, I'm Mark Cherry and I wrote the first thing that your wife ever did.

He had written he had written a musical at the time, and it was in nineteen eighty six.

That it was amusable for the Young Americans and you had auditioned to get a part in that show that was going to be a national tour, and I got a part in the show.

Whatever I was on this.

I love that.

A million years later, he's creating Desperate Housewives and both Doug and I are auditioning for it. And yeah, Doug loves to tell that story about I wrote the first thing your wife ever did, and then he got the job. I did not, but I can't know what.

He got on. And Marsha and Marcia got on and it's kind of marsh little family over there. Yeah, yeah, I remember that.

Very cool.

Yeah. I just loved that whole scene with those two in her such excitement to be flown to New York for it for the soap.

And then, by the way, doesn't happen. People don't fly us.

They used to really used to before Zoom, people would fly you.

I just thought that was sort of funny, like she's a she's obviously not an established actress yet, and so we're taking a leap of faith that they would fly her out for the audience.

My first established.

Job, I auditioned it an open casting call. I auditioned in a basement in San Francisco after my theater company car wash, and they picked us up in a limo, flew us on a plane just to Fox and a limo full hair and makeup screen test with Charlie She. So that's the only time that's ever happened to me. But it was like something you'd see in this was for what for Lucas, for my first thing Lucas. Oh wow, okay, yeah,

But when she leaves the scene, she's like, no, I'm going to be calm, and then you hear it go.

So I thought that I'm I'm not going to get too excited, so cute, not.

Going to get excited. I got to be professional, you know.

And so again this is again they referenced. Isn't that the show that launched Kim say no More?

This time I heard it better.

I was like, wait, I think they're actually saying Saint no Moore, not say no more. I'm going to all our kids say no more. But yeah, So that we're back with Matt and he is watching his teen group of kids.

They're playing NERF football, sort of letting off some steam.

He's watching and a detective comes in from the hate crimes unit to interview Matt, and Matt's supervisor stands nearby listening while Matt talks to the detective, and Matt repeats the story to the detective that he was beat up and he says because I'm gay, and the detective says, well, you know what, we really want to catch the guys and was out okay with you, and Matt's thrilled, like, yeah, you want to fight for me.

That's wonderful. So he's happy that he's had this positive.

Conversation with a detective who says, we want to catch these guys. And after he leaves, Matt's supervisor tells him, you need to get this meeting room cleaned up, and we're left wondering about that. We got to Allison coming home to find Billy eating very weird food for dinner, kind of girl.

Over the trash can.

Billy's eating over the dinersh can, and he says he's.

Threatening to eat what was it? What was it? Was either a protein bar or because it was squishing out of red wrap, so I thought maybe it was in those little cheese wheels, remember those little.

Cow cheese, a baby bell cheese. It might have been said cheese and soup.

Something sitting cheese.

But he does say what he's planning is, you know, can of frosting for dessert.

Yeah. Yeah, he's making a real point that roommate isn't around and his life has gone to hell.

This is what I left left to my own devices. This is what I'm gonna do if you're a.

Soup to nuts. Yeah, under three minutes done.

And he says, Allison, do you want to you know, you to watch a movie with me tonight? And that's she says once again, she's not staying, She's just here to grab a change of clothes.

But were you thinking, yeah, watch the movie.

That's not what I know the movie, except he says, Rosemary's Baby.

Rosemary's Baby. It would be scary. And they could cut.

Off frosting with their popcorn.

Yeah, put sprinkles on the frosting. That rainbow sprinkles on frosting is a very good treat. And can we just.

Stop for a second of the nineties outfit? That purple t shirt tucked in with a brown belt to rust colored jeans. This is on cute, billy. Isn't this the scene with these I want to color jean.

And send it to Andrew and go. I can't believe you let them put you because it came off kind of pink. It was almost like pink pan I.

In his black converse and you're just going that was more times that was only season one that he would have like been like I guess because he was just they put it, he didn't care, and.

Then I think started to care a little bit more, and then don't.

Forget if the nineties, We're like, okay, don't forget. Our new costumer, Denise Wingate comes in when I come in and that's yes, that's the episode after next. So somebody noticed that that wasn't working for them either. I just thought it was nineties funny.

Maybe this was one of the episodes that one of the outfits that pushed it him around.

So they then.

Billy and Allison then have an argument and Billy says, you know, Keith is a jerk.

He's lying to his wife and he's just a jerk.

And Allison's saying, well, he isn't lying to me, and I love him. This is when she says I love him, and Billy says, I just don't want to see you get hurt, and she.

Says, you just don't want to see me get happy.

I thought this was such a great line because she says he's not lying to me, and Billy says, why not? He lies to his wife, And I was like, I'm going to remember that if any of my friends ever has an affair with him.

Yes, And they tell him Billy Campbell says.

Because that's such a good point, Like, what do you mean he's not a liar, Like you're the only one he's telling the truth to. I remember I dated a guy who was mean to his mother, and I thought, well, he's not mean to me. Cut to shock of all shocks, what do you mean to me? Now? I know, pay attention to how a man treats his mother. That's very important.

Noticed it it's my now husband that like, he was always going to visit his mother. But another thing I just thought because she was older and I just they're so close, and oh I love her so well. But that was much when I was in my fifties. So I went through the twenties and the thirties and the forties.

Yes, such a good point.

Yeah, and for you know, for an episode where Billy has said some things that are sort of out at touch, he's also being the voice of reason here with Allison. He's saying all the things that are throughe and smart for a guy who also has to say that things like oh yeah, Matt, you know, same thing happened to me whatever.

He's also being able to be like the guy who says the truth here.

And also, you know, the audience is thinking, go with Billy. It's like, it's great a person that the audience wants Alison with anyway to be the one saying what do you do it? Because the audience is like, are you blind? Are having to be right?

Yeah, you're just going, Oh, he's so cute and he's so caring, and this is a great episode for that for your building up it.

But Alison goes out through the courtyard, she passes Sandy and Ronda, who are saying goodbye. Ronda's wishing Sandy good luck as Sandy's cab is arriving to whisker to her New York audition. And I did notice Sandy's outfit in this. She's wearing a beret and a red top with a skirt, and I kind of think that it's very similar to an outfit that Sidney wore very early on. So we're gonna have to look for that when it comes up. Because I looked at the beret, I'm like, oh, Sidney wore berets?

Yeah? Was that like a nineties thing?

But it was a nineties thing?

Yeah?

Yeah, Okay, Well it just struck me.

It's like maybe they recycled that same wardrobe from Sandy leaving, Like, oh, then you know when Sydney comes in.

Oh yeah, I'm sure they didn't throw all of her stuff out, so we'll see, yeah, hand me down to different characters.

Yeah, there's like closets full of stock and they just thought, oh, this would be good.

Yeah, going to have it. You guys so coordinate. There was no awareness on set, and no one knew that she was not coming back. And do you think they're right?

We knew, Oh you knew? We knew.

How did you guys know?

Probably right before when you got the Scriptish, I think she told us, like they told us, she knew, yeah, that it was going to happen.

Yeah, And was there any reasoning for it?

Well, we all knew there was a chance at thirteen, right, So after thirteen you either got picked up or not. We all knew that there was a chance.

Brought all the characters. Yeah, any Yeah, we all knew. So yeah, she's she leaves and she says I'll call and that's her exit. And then we cut back to Keith and Allison at the beach house yet again, and Keith is trying to reassure Allison it's okay that none of her friends and no one likes them together, and he compares them.

To Romeo and Juliet, and Allison she's like, yeah, they both died of poison, and oh yeah, yeah yeah.

He goes, We're like, we're like Romeo and Juliet and Elison is not in a good way, which I love.

Maybe another example.

Yeah, and also, can we talk about the vat of red sauce for the Jew of the.

Simmering? Yeah?

Yeah. And Alison at this point says she needs to have a definition for dead.

What does it mean when you say your marriage is yes.

Allison is not able to answer this, but he does say, Allison, you're just parroting your friends.

Don't you trust me? He says, so this is direct gas lighting. Little good, everybody listening, little therapy and someone, Yeah, gas lighting?

So what's acting like she's crazy? Yeah, I'm crazy because he's having an affair.

But I'm the problem, and he persists here and she says, yes, I feel like maybe I'm just being an idiot for even being here and being with a guy who's married, and she's really expressing her doubts and he just keeps trying to.

Talk her out of those doubts.

And he says, but I love you, I love you, and then the phone rings, cute telephone, I love you enough, it's the wife Lily. He then tells Alison he needs to take this call in the from the bedroom because it's my dead marriage, basically like showing showing Allison who he picks in this moment. And Alison is no dummy and she gets her stuff when she goes out the door into the.

Night finally and everyone's like finally, yeah.

Yeah, yuh So.

Back in her apartment in the morning, Allison is up early and she tells Billy she needs to make up for lost time at work. She's you know, going in early, and she confides that she doesn't really know what to do about Keith and admits that her emotions feel like they're out of control, and Billy says, well, I wish there was something I could do to help.

Says it's so sweet. But I we're finally seeing that Alison has some awareness, and she's saying, if this were my friend, I know exactly what to tell them. So I love that little bit of awareness because she's been driving me crazy this episode, so I like this she has that moment of like, basically, I know this is wrong, I know this is stupid, but I'm so in love with this guy. So I had a little bit more compassion for her slash meeting.

And then he just as doorable as ever, just looks at you, like eight feet from you, eight inches from you, going I just wish I could do something to help. The audience is going nuts. He was so good, well directed.

And then we cut to Jake, who's knocking on Matt's door in the morning to see how he's doing. And Matt is wearing a giant checkered shirt, which I will say Doug referred to as a poncho. I don't think it was an actual poncho, but I like that.

Huge shirts in this episode.

They all it was a style the remember it was like nineties grunge. All the guys like big Yeah, Andrew's T shirts are huge and grunge.

That's what it was.

You're right, ye, Jake. They keep in the tight T shirts because they they're paint. They know, they know what the ladies want.

Yeah, and then well if he wears it, if he wears a big flannel, it's left open.

And yes, yeah here though, yes we know, yeah, but this one's particularly giant. And Matt tells Jake about his interview with the detective and he says he feels somewhat optimistic about it, and jake'says, wow, you know you're handling this better than I would, And you know I'd want to really just go find the guys myself and beat him up. And and Matt against this, well, I don't think that's the best answer, the best way to handle it. And they leave and then Matt is heading into work.

They run in to run it in the courtyard.

And that's when she tells Jake and Matt that Sandy got the job and that she's gone.

She's really gone.

Yeah, that was an interesting way to say it, right, Let's just make she's gone clear. What's happening.

She's gone, right, she's really gone.

Yes, how that's how it was written, and so you know, it sort of lands where Jake and Matt and Ronda just sit with that moment.

And well Jake specifically because that's his Sandy, and he goes, wow, you don't you know, you don't say whatever whatever that line was. It was like a close up on Jake and you're like, that's done, and it's bittersweet.

He's happy for but it's like, wow, I'm gonna miss her sort of vibe and yeah, yeah.

She's gone.

So then Billy in his cab is driving and he shows up wearing giants crunch socks.

I didn't notice at.

Keith's house and Paisley shorts in Malibu.

Maybe I think it was between the pink jeans and the Paisley shorts. It's like, we really need to rethink this.

Maybe he had his roller skates in the back of the cab like always at the beach. He was just gonna use the punch of os and his face shoring roller blades, yeah, and just like go for.

So this threw me off, and I don't know if it threw you guys, But the opening of the scene is like a stock footage of sort of like a mountain and ocean, and then they show him driving up and it looked like it could have been like in Silver Lake or Zrol Canyon or Los Felis, Like it looked like a Hollywood Hills kind of back alley part. And then they cut to Keith clearly on this ocean. Is this adorable you know, shingled cottage right on the water.

Felt it didn't fum me because it felt like how in Malibu the houses are so close together you can't see the ocean between them because they're all built for the ocean view. Really, but that you well, I just know the area.

There's just no it looked like this. The road that he was on was like cracked and just kind of like, you know, not like Malibu or Oxnard and look like more of a mountain. I would love to find out. I don't know, Maybe we'll.

Just it's possible that they shot them all the time totally different places as establishing the X tier and then the back part with the deck. Maybe so Billy finds Keith on the deck and he confronts him, and he says, you know, you shouldn't be cheating on your wife, and I don't like to hear Alison krang into a pillow over you, and dude, what are you doing? And kind of really really confronts him, and Keith's a little defensive, and then Billy asks what exactly are your intentions? Keith says,

How and her best friend? Did you audibly go? I went, oh, like, I'm her.

Best friend, super sweetheaded, adorable.

I care about her more than you do, pal, And then we cut back to the teen shelter where Matt is asked to go into his boss's office, where his boss sits him down and tells him that Matt encouraging the kid to get in touch with his anger was just too much and Matt himself just has too much self expression and the kids need role models with family values that they doesn't really lacking. And the boss says, you know, Matt, it's this is just not working out and.

Yes, all of these dog whistles write too much expression family values, Yeah, and it was so this was so well done because he walks in on a high because he feels like, you know, if people are finally have his back, He's going to work where he's so good at it and he loves it, and then he just got yelled. I was so shocked by this scene.

Yeah, where you guys aready happened well, and here's they kind of teased us about it, those looks and the other time in the other situations, you know, when the kid was really angry, and then the next scene when the detectives there, they kept referring to the like Laura was saying, the boss kind of going, oh, like close ups on him, you know, a little questionable. But then he really goes when he says I'm gay, because in that other scene Matt says very directly, they beat me

At the same time, he's witnessed Matt being very good at his job, and we've seen him witness that and but he's now in this conversation he's decided to turn it around and say, you know, that was actually just too much.

That way you handled that was too much.

You have too much self expression, and these kids need role models with family values. So this is this is a big deal. That spoiler alert part of that La Times article lets us know that this is a big deal storyline of not only was you know, this gay character a victim of targeted violence. Right now he's lost his job clearly because the boss doesn't want to have him be a gameplay.

So yeah, it's an interesting way too to bring this storyline front and center. Another thing they mentioned in the articles that another show had been boycotted for having a gay storyline front and center. So they really did a good job of creating compassion and having the issues and

And we're going to get to talk to Doug because he is as we promised, he is going to have his episode where he comes in and talks to.

Us, which finally did. Daphney was able to get a hold of Doug.

He has his numbers, so that was cool.

Al has his numbers, so she was able to get him in.

You like the girls, I see her. They're really nice, so nice. They all have the same hair.

You don't have to worry about learning different hairstyles.

It's all it's just different color. You can recognize them either. He said, all right, all right, stop harassing.

All right, but no, he's actually he's actually I'm so excited.

Back in town, and we can finally have him on it on the podcast.

Then, after this scene where Matt is fired, Allison is back at her desk at work and Keith walks in and he wants to take Alison out to lunch. She says, I don't think that's a good idea, and she says to him, I think my feelings are being ignored and he says, well, let's talk about it at lunch. She says, no, I've sacrificed my work and you're ignoring my needs and he says come over tonight. Yeah, and Allison again says no, we both need time to think, and he says, I'm

She gives him a Lucy her boss gives him a like exciting a look everything okay here, Keith? She says, please leave because I'm going to cry and then I'll never forge give you, and then he reaches over and grabs her wrist. Did you notice that? And kind of just grabs it. Did you guys not notice that?

I know?

And reaches down. She's down at the desk and he reaches over and he grabs it and he goes, I need you or whatever. It was like, I love you.

Red flag, lots of lots of red flags, and Allison is really trying to push back.

And Alison's like, let me move these flags out of the way to talk.

To hold on, let me just move that aside. Okay.

Then Ronda finds Matt sitting by the pool at the courtyard.

Tells her that.

The detectives were great and the kids at the shelter have been really great and really supportive, rallying around him, and then he reveals that he's been suddenly fired because his boss found out that he's gay. So he sort of tells that story where, yeah, everything I thought was going well, I felt like I had people on my side and watching my back, and then rug pulled out

And say it was because I'm gay.

But he made it all about family values, role models and scraping the walls, you know, like when the chair was thrown, like as if the damage to the wall was really what was it about. And Jake says, well, dude, it's up to you, and I think you should do something about it. And Matt has left to think about.

It, which is how it's so Jake, isn't it you guys, It's just how he deals with stuff, which is good in this case.

I think something also seems frustrated, like he keeps saying, let's go after him, he keeps giving him solutions, and Matt he feels like he's not standing up for himself.

Yeah, and he's just like, I'm done trying to stand up for you exactly.

So then we're back with Lucy and Alison over lunch. They're having lunch together and Lucy's telling Alison, I don't want to fire you.

You're a great receptionist.

And she then also reveals that she herself has wasted five years of her own life with the married man previously when she was younger, and she feels sick about it now and she just want Alison to make the same mistake.

Yeah, she didn't really advice, and yeah, she's the world's kindest boss, and she calls Alice and her protegee, and she really wants her. That's really good advice in a loving way to say it, right, I just's.

Really a mentor to her, in a really a mentor, which you know only a woman boss can be. You can't really have a male boss go in and be and then be very empathetic with your employee Alison and say, you know, I've been in your position. I've been the younger. You know, I bought all this fancy lingerie and it didn't work, and I don't think it's going to work. This is like as old as the hills, you know

So then we're back to the Shooters where the gang is all gathered around to watch Sandy's first appearance on the television show on the soap Opera, And so they all gather around the TV and they're so excited to see her. She got her head wrapped in the bandage and they her, you know, just a few lines of dialogue, and Jake is then the first to say that, hey, I'm gonna miss her, and then they all agree that they'll miss her too.

And this is what I loved, all those group shots in the pan across the whole shot. It was like a Christmas movie, you know what I mean. And they're all smiling at the Christmas tree. They're all watching the TV in the bar, and you just see that almost everyone except for Allison. Yeah.

And then also in the scene at Shooters, Matt goes up to Jake and he's at the table and he sees and buying your your you know, your drinks are on me tonight and I'm taking your advice. Thanks for pushing me to do that. I'm asuing my employer for

I know it takes a lot of guts to end it.

And by the way, you should know, I did go to Keith's house for a Manda man talk and Ilse's like really, and he says that Keith.

Was maybe weirded out by it about Billy's.

Showing up to call him out, but that he had stuck up for Allison. And Allison is very pleased that Billy cares about her so much, and so off she goes.

She heads out, asking Billy to wish her luck ending things with Keith.

Yay, Allison, yay, that's what we all.

Want to happen.

Yay.

I like that she really embraced and appreciated you really care about me, like and as opposed to because I think in the past he had done something and she was like stop, you know, don't try it or something. Yeah, so this she welcomed at this time him jumping right on in her business. And then we see her at the beach house now and it's sunset.

It's very beautiful lighting, and Keith has set up a romantic sunset dinner. And before Allison can even say what she came to say, he jumps up and he says, I'm leaving my wife. And I can't imagine life without you, Allison. You're the only woman I'll ever love. For God's sakes, Alison say something and she doesn't, and.

She's thinking, huh.

Yeah, dinner. Wait, now you're saying you're leaving her.

Okay, So the episode ends on this first cliffhanger.

Yeah, will she right?

I'm back with next week. We're gonna have to tune in next week. Will she able to end it? We're gonna have to tune in to find out. But it ends on a very beautiful sunset shot. But the two of them holding their champagne glasses, well yeah yeah, Like they're.

Like, yeah, I think you guys are totally right in your analysis that they started to spice things up before Heather, because my memory was we were the same and then Heather came on, it was like boom, But you're right, they started to do this and maybe like Heather was like the cherry on top.

There was a lot of spicy making out here, and a cliffhanger, so you're starting to see this formula sort of moving well.

And also just the whole Matt thus got them in the New The Matt story got them in the La Times. They got some press going. They're throwing the stuff out of it. But I think it's just the pieces. Because we're going back and watching this, we're seeing the different signs that we you know, our memory is that's thirty years ago.

So I wonder if there's a place we can see the ratings. Wouldn't that be interesting if somebody kept digging back written on a notepad somewhere in the library.

Variety, it was a variety every Yeah, well, I wonder if maybe Chip.

Saved, if that ship might have. But I wonder if it is somewhere, because it would be interesting to see when it started to pick up.

Yeah, oh, I remember that it was the second and thirdie.

I think you know who would know. Andrew would know. I'm going to ask because he paid very close attention. I'm going to ask him if your members when it's started to pick up.

Well, I'm very excited to tune in next week to the next episode of melrose Place. Here on still the Place, because I want to find out if Allison's going to be able to do it, if She's going to.

Be able to be screwed? Are you kidding me? And I have out my notes are this guy's relentless dinner prepared champagne, sunset Malibu. I left my wife here, the only woman I've ever loved, blah blah blah, cliche blah blah blah. What the f She doesn't have a chance because it's the nineties and this is melrose Place. Yeah all those things, Yes, yes, poor girl.

But I also want to find out what's going to happen for poor Matt and I want him. I want to see him get you know, justice for.

Losing his job. Yeah, yeah, tune in next week.

So next so we're gonna have Doug Savon so excited.

I was looking at the questions we kind of uh cover them in the show. Isn't that amazing?

Fan questions? You may we have some fan questions.

Yes, yeah, you know a couple. Yeah, did you know Sandy's last episode? What do you think about Ellison's work ethic in this episode which we sort of covered.

We did, Yeah, we did.

Yeah.

I love that our fans are thinking the same things we are.

Yeah.

I love that they're really watching this together.

They're really on it. It's very cool. So thanks for all those questions. Guys. You can coming and keep watching with us.

We love getting together every week to see another episode and knowing that you're all watching with us.

We love it. You all can watch again if you're not watching the actual shows on It's on Paramount Plus and Amazon. The original series. We're next week is we're going to be going over episode fourteen, season one. You guys.

Next episode after this is going to be Doug Savants episode.

That's right, Matt Fielding. Oh, he'll be here in person. Finally.

He's been out of town for a bit, but we're finally going to get him to sit down and have a great chat.

So looking forward to that. That'll be the next episode.

How did you get through to him, Laura?

I actually keep his calendar, so I just said, here's what's happening.

You said, we were finally to the episode where you made it to the La Times. Will that do it?

Doug? Are you guys going to drive together?

I said? I thought I told him we could carpool.

I thought it would be you know, responsible, and carpool save the game forward to it. Thanks so much guys for coming to steal the place. We'll see you next week.

Bye bye, everybody,