Still the Place with Laura Layton, Courtney Thorn Smith.
And Daphne's Aniga an iHeartRadio podcast.
Hello ladies, Hi, so good to say. Very excited today. We're so excited. It's a very special guest, Chuck.
Have you heard that from the girls of Melrose before? We're so excited we have Pratt on the show today. I's a writer on Melroe's Place.
Also, what were you saying, daph And you had a beautiful introduction.
How hot I am for him?
We've got Chuck's been around in this industry for so long, and there should be like a game three degrees of separation from Chuck because you've written for so many shows and produced since you were probably a child.
Yeah, and if he doesn't know somebody from work, he went to school with them, or his kids went to school with them.
You know everybody.
No I don't, but he don't.
Beautiful woman, you've written General Hospital, Young and the Restless, All My Children. Oh yeah, Melrose Place nine O two one, Oh, keep going.
Then we did that little spinoff, Models Inc. Model But anyway, you've done so many soaps.
So that's the pilot of Desperate Housewives.
Desperate Housewives can I just ask a question before they get into all the juicy questions, because I was, as I told you, looking up some info on you. You you grew up in the business because your dad worked in the business. Correct, Okay, did your dad produce The Great Santini?
Yes, it's so great that you guys actually know where the next generation has come along. And you say, yeah, my father is a producer. His last film was The Great Santini. And they go, oh, is it about a circus?
I go, wow, yeah, I know, Michael.
Blake, Danner, Oscars all nominated.
It was an amazing movie.
As a young actor coming up, I just was like that, wait what, I know, you've done a ton of stuff, but I'm like, dad produced a great thing.
Yeah, but your dad, Yeah, Well I got I got to go to the premiere of it. I was just out of college or about to be out of college film school, and you know, met Robert Duval, Luke Carlino, who wrote and directed the film. And but I got to meet Pat Conray, you know, who wrote the book it was based on. And I got to sit and talk with him because I said, you know, you wrote this book. My father is kind of the great sant I know the minute, you know, he had to make it.
I was one of the first people who read it. My dad used to you know, I was working in the mailroom at Paramount and he would throw me books and go read this. Tell me what you think you know? And I read. I remember reading Sounder and thinking, oh my god, this would be such a great film. I said, this would be a great film. He goes, yeah, for somebody else to make it. Go OK, So I read the great Santini and I and I went. I went into his office and I said, Dad, this is uh,
this is sort of your story. And he goes, I never hit your mother, no, no, But I said, you know, we grew up with horses and they had names like Trooper and sergeant, you know, and he was a veteran and he got a good laugh on it. I said, you have, I mean, you have to make this movie. And he goes, We're going to make this movie. It took a lot of it took it basically ended his career because it took so long, really yeah, to get the money Ryan and then united artists and uh, then
he couldn't find a director. That's that's a whole story. I mean, Ulu gros Bar started it, but because of the basketball scene where he bounces the basketball off his kid's head, he backed u. Ulu gross Bar said he wouldn't do it, and my father said, we won't cut the scene. It's Past's favorite scene the book and that's the way it goes. So they had, uh, okay, this
is a good start. My father was on a first class flight to New York to go and talk to U A about money for the picture, and Paul Newman is on the same flight reading the script because they've got it. He was the first person they went out to and he was probably a little too old for the part, but you know, they could. They figured they could make it work. And uh, my father just saw him, watched him read the script. I mean, what an opportunity. I thought, never in my life if I had that opportunity.
And yeah, and so he went up to UH as the flight was coming in. He looked over and Paul new was going, you know, wiping a tiro and he goes, Okay, the script did get to you. You know, it was one of those and my father went up and he said, you got to do this movie. You know, I just saw you reading the script. I'm the guy, you know, I'm the producer and uh and he said, you know, it would be probably one of the greatest roles of my life. He said, but I have a I have
a kid, and we have problems. Get had drug problems and died actually I think of an overdose. And he said, you know, he's made claims that I'm an abusive father and stuff. He said, I can't, I can't do this. My father said, so it's the basketball scene. He goes, it's the whole thing. It's not just about so so
they lost him. And then they went to Gene Hackman, Burt Reynolds and you know, and my father goes, you know, and this went on and on and on, and I thought other movies on the Orion schedule got moved up in front of it, and it looked like it might not, you know, get made. And I think it was Pat Conroy h lived in the South, and so did Robert Devall. So pat Conroy said it was his suggestion. How about Robert Devall's perfect? Deval was perfect? And you know.
The next logical step, which is Melrose Place. Yes, you know, there's so much, there's so much in common.
It was only a few years later.
The same genre.
Yeah, so we're so we've been watching it. We're only in episode twenty three. I feels when doing it a long time. And first it's like eight kids trying to make it eight kids. And now it's starting to get exciting and sexy and stuff is happening. Do you remember that transition? Do you remember that? Do you was there in the writer's room, people going, it's not working. Nobody cares about these kids. We need to spice it up. Were you brought in there? Were you there from the beginning?
This part? I remember so well, you know, I mean, I'll say, God, yes, do I remember this? I mean, it was it was a it was a number of things. You know, ratings are always a big deal. And uh, we had we'd been doing we were on like shooting episode six or seven, and Darren pulls me into his office. I was co producer, I think then I was supervising. Yet Eddie goes and he goes, Juck, I have something to tell you what Let's walk to the elevator together.
So we walked the elevator. I thought, oh, I'm getting fired, you know, and I think i'd written, you know, a number of episodes. When people liked my episode, I thought, wow, this has never happened. This is scary. And Darren goes, when we come back it was a Friday goes when we come back on Monday, goes, none of the people out there are going to be here. I go, what do you mean the assistance? I thought, what the assistants were getting rid of?
This?
Says they're great, Eddie goes. He goes, No, we're firing three writers, you know, including the supervising. Uh, pretty sure, and we have another guy's coming in. It was Frank South.
Did Frank have a history of soaps and dramas?
He was an episodic guy. I was, you know, I was the soap guy riding up episodes in the beginning. You know a lot of people have given, you know, given me credits saying I was the reason it turned to a soap. No, it was. It was as a combination of people. But I sure as hell knew how to do it.
You know, but in the beginning, you were writing your soap style, but without the melrose esqueness of it.
Yeah, yeah, no, it was uh, you know, I'd come off shows like Santa Barbara where where you know, if you know the history of the show, anything went. We were insane. We just our ratings were so low and the network was stopped caring about us. So we had alien episodes we did. We turned daytime on it. You know, we didn't care. And we won every you know, we'd win twenty three Emmys, you know, each season, and you know I would win Emmys, and it was it was
a great freedom. But then I moved to primetime. It did Gabriel's Fire and Life Goes On, which were more traditional shows, and learned the one camera you know world, which I already knew.
But you know, so when when Darren said we have to change it up, did you go, oh great, I know how to do this and excited.
Actually it wasn't Darren that that said it the way the way it happened, As I recall Wash, we were called in uh by UH and I think I think uh the former writers sumed and fired. Right before they were fired. We were called in for big meeting. Aaron was there. I remember writing a note to I think to Darren, I said, I know why Fox likes I know, I know why Fox likes Aaron Spelling so much. And
I said he looks like Bart Simpson. And I remember thinking if Darren shows up to Aaron beyond that elevator.
And this is around episode six.
Yeah, I was around six, and and it was all the network executives, all who became at some point or another president of the network. There was Bob green Blatt, you know, who went on to run NBC and Showtime. Uh. There was Sandy Grushaw who ended up being president of Fox. There was Jonathan litt Men who went on and did all the Bruckheimer shows and hired Carol mendelsoid not me not better to this day does he ever? Litman He
owns O HI, I think, and Carol does too. They were all there and Peter Chernan, who is the head he was Fox, you know, and we were all called in and they said, we love these episodes. Uh, you guys are doing a great job, Darren. You know, you've created great characters. Production Wise, I don't think ship was there, but production wise it's looking really good. Uh, you know,
but we're a little concerned about the ratings. I thought you should be, because I think we just had you know, episode five, you know, five or six, and you know, the scripts for seven, eight, nine and ten were in. I know that we're sitting there and you could, you could sense it. And afterwards, I said, what was that meeting about? And Darren goes, I don't know, but they're they're worried, you know, they were. They were telling Aaron the only way they could because he was so powerful,
that we're a little worried about the show. So, you know, everybody got fired and and we kind of reassembled and then and I remember at the end of that meeting, Sandy Grushaw was head of marketing, who I just had an email from and he recalled this moment. I had written the where Jane loses a baby, where Michael and Jane had a miscarriage and my wife had just had a miscarriage. And so it was really an episode, you know, a very special episode that I got to write about
something I experienced. You know. Of course, I had a Golden Retriever puppy in it, which I always had a Golden Retriever puppy and everything I still do. And I remember the puppy story about you very well. I told you to everybody. Oh my god, you know, he said, Hi, Robert Chavez, Ah.
Guys golf together I'm guessing, yeah, yes, so sweet.
He's so funny. He just he just had nothing but wonderful things. Anyway, that I am really digressing now, Robert.
In my very early twenty gosh, it sounded like it was the turn.
You know, you guys were all panicking about these numbers. But we were only like a few episodes in. We've noticed because we're on twenty three.
You know, it was it was, you know. Then we had the famous meeting on a Saturday when the ratings like for ten came out and I think they were that was the miscarriage episode. They were the lowest of the season. I thought, well, I liked it, and and they called us on a Saturday into Into Fox. Chip was not there for that either.
I know, because Chip was saying, oh no, they were worried. We were fine with the ratings.
Missed, almost failed. It was exactly she says, we were losing. We almost. Chip said, well, I think we had a twenty two shor order. Oh no, we didn't, do.
You remember Andrew with the ratings, like waiting for the ratings to come in and following Lisa.
Andrew, Oh my god, you could do an hour on Andrew Andrew who what he got the part. We all went out to the set to see him and meet him, and we'd seen his pilot golf stream or Golf something or other golf where he had a gun and you go, oh, no, he's really handsome. But in one scene he goes down and he fixes a woman's pipe in the pipes in the cellar, you know, and he has I know, you
could tell the writers that's what they were thinking. And the woman looks at him and she's extremely attracted to him, and h and we all looked and we said he could be billy, just don't open your mouth, and we're okay. But we met him and he comes up and he goes, you, well, it's nice to meet you guys. You know, you know this Saturday me I wasn't in the Saturday meeting at Spelling's house, but Darren called me right after. But he goes, he goes, he said, look, you know I'm doing this show,
but you know what about Golf Springs. I mean, you know I did that first, and I got I'm just study liquing. But I go, I don't think that show's going forward. He goes, really, oh, I just thought, oh my god. I have had times in my career where the show I was working on, or that I had been one case created, was canceled and they called and gave me the bad news. And then the next day they called and said, we want to hire you on another show that we're doing. And you go, okay, can
I take all the writers? I go yeah, I go, all right, well we're all still working. That's great, different show.
But so when you fired some of those initial writers that were hired to write a certain kind of TV show that wasn't working, and you got other ones in, like Franky.
They brought Frank in. He was not comfortable with the whole show. He was you know, he was working and had written a pilot for Brand Follisy. I mean, he was kind of you know, in a tier where we worked and you know of you know not, you know not. I never I never used the word camp and we never used the word soap opera. But we were.
Doing you never did the wig thing happen?
No, No, we had certain we had rules. We had rules, rules that have followed me to other shows that I've done.
So when Marsha takes off the wig, the scar that was Shakespeare the words May Shakespeare.
You're really looking for a word, and you're a writer and you want to save face. You can see there's two Actually, you say melodrama. It was mellow. Melrose was great melodrama or Melrose was great.
And noir and that so melodrama is better than camp or so.
Oh yeah, okay, oh okay, did we descend in the last years.
I mean, luckily you didn't have to be there.
And you're thinking guys were doing soap opera. I know we're not saying it, but I know what we're doing because you knew.
But I knew, but we had certain thing ways and I mean this was okay, I'll go back to we have the meeting with the Fox meeting, and they were all wearing really short tennis shorts and they looked ridiculous. I mean they look I mean, if you can imagine these guys without tennis shorts, they're kind of let's not let's not imagine that the shorts because they had been playing tennis at the Beverly Hills Tennis Club or whatever.
But so they they called us in and they said, and before the meeting, Darren looks at me, he goes, you know what, this is about I bet you figured it out. And I go, no, these people don't talk to me, you know. I mean, Aaron barely you know, knows Aaron knew I was. But he goes taking to
tell us to turn it into a soap. I know they are, and I looked at I said, well, you know, it'd be really easy to do, and we are kind of tiptoeing into it a little bit, and and certainly with the introduction of Marsha's character, but and.
You're like, I'm here, and I look at him on my sad.
I said, well, let's just go listen to what they say. And he goes, I don't want to do a soap, and I go, oh, it's such a soap and I went okay, I said. I said, okay, well, you know there's no way we're going to make it one hundred percent of soap, you know. And I said, so let's not worry about it. So we went in and they said, like right out of Bob Greenlet's mouth, we wanted to
turn it into a soap. What would you do? And Aaron wasn't there, you know, And I said, they've talked to Aaron for sure, because they used words like Dynas, Steve Dallas and you know and everything, and we said okay, and they sort of said it as an ultimatum, you know. As we left, I said that was an ultimatum. And Frank was was on at that point, and uh, and.
So who said, don't worry Darren, it'll be a melodrama.
That came later, but no. And then we went out and I said, uh, let's give it a try, Darren. You know, I think it'll be fun, you know, and he goes, well, you know all the you know Chip used. I listened to him and he used the you know, tropes. It's not a word I love, but uh, you know, there are certain conventions and soap operas and we introduced them, which is why, you know, when you guys think about it, why did Keith come in? You know, you had the
ex husband. Did he ever show up? I don't even yes, Oh my god, I love Linda. He would show up to he would show up to work with his surf board and b m W convertible audience, you know, and oh, there's there's Heather in her Porsche. A good story about Heather's Porsche. I'm jumping around, I was.
I was.
I had written and directed an episode. It was really late late in the in the run of the show, and we were out at the beach House and we were on and we were shooting a scene where she's at a door and she says something and then she goes out the you know whatever that front door was and Lee's and uh, I have noise in my head, sat under what that is? And Forrest calls over and he goes, it's her car. I go, it's her car and they go. He goes, somebody turned off Heather's car
and they turned it off. And so she set her line, went out the door, closed the door, and then she's standing out there and I say print and I hear in the headseto. They backed it up right almost to the door. So she got in the car and boom, she was gone. I thought, it's really come to this. It's like, I'm only going to work to the very last second.
They were a long hours.
Oh I know, I know. Look when I started to direct, I realized really how awful it was for you guys. The doing scenes on the on the beach and during El Nino with Heather, and she wore she wore ugs, you know, and they showed up in like a key shot and we go, oh, she's supposed to be barefoot in the Dominican Republic.
Speaking, because that's all the last part of Melrose. Do you feel like it was really different two different shows. I mean a lot of people on the writer stuff had gone, a lot of actors.
You know, we did so many episodes, as you guys know, I know you've talked about double ups, and for us, we had to write them that fast. Yeah, a lot of inexperienced writers and very little rewriting more rewrite on every show I've ever worked on, you know, just just notes and you know, inner workings with the writers. But you know, we would have to rewrite and hold the hands of young writers just to get the scripts, you know,
get enough scripts ready to go. Uh. And we plotted them one after the other, and we got to the point where we could plot a show, you know, for an outline, in a day, day and a half. We we would then take a few days off to write and take a breath, but then we would jump in, you know, and my everyone said I was really good
in the room. But you know, and I've always kind of had that reputation and I, and I thought, what do I tell young writers now, because you know, I've mentored a number of them now, And I said, well, when the day ends at you know, seven or whatever the writer's room, we're all exhausted, we're going home. There's going to be some question about like, well, what's Sydney going to do tomorrow? And you know, you know she's trapped in this tunnel and how are we going to
get her out? What does this mean? You know? And all the writers would come back, think, get their coffee and say, okay, now what were you going to do? I would go home and sit, you know, blank stare you know, my wife always going he's writing again, you know, and and sit and think and then I would have the solution. So we start the meeting. I go how about this? And I would go, oh my god, where
did you get that? I go, well, you know, it took a little while when I was alone, and I did it, but yeah, it might have been so priting.
But how far ahead were you plotting?
Because we talked about, you know, when Marcia came in and she's got the early scenes with Thomas, or when Laura came on, would you see someone who was like a shorter arc and you'd see something and go oh and get a storia.
And then we would and then we would change. Yeah, it's when did.
You know that you were going to bring Laura back? Because she was so adorable on the show, But did you know right then?
It was you know, I can't think specific episodes, but I remember that you had been in in Michael's It was you were hired on a short run, as I recall, I don't know how many episodes.
Two episodes as a guest in the first season, and that was it, and.
That was it? Was it the first season or the second season where you were walking away from the house, you know, you walk away from the beach house and Michael was looking out the window and you were kind of dancing. Yeah, okay, so its being in the second season, and you know, we used to play tricks in the mixing booth, which is something Chipped and talked about because he wasn't there, but we would, you know, we put farts in you know, I mean the sound guys would
put farts into the most the first one. The first one came really early because they knew that I loved it, you know, and Frank two that we would laugh and Darren, I mean we all just.
You think that Sydney was dancing down the beach and she was making sarting.
But the first one we did was was Andrew and he bent over and he opened refrigerator. I think it ended up in the putting credits to get some orange juice or something and he bends over and to get the orgins and they just put a little you know literally, you know, farts make people laugh. So we would just sit there and laugh and laugh and laugh.
You can't leave it.
We take it out.
You have the they.
Have it on a stema and they pull it out.
But you know, I will say this, having worked on two and a half men, they do put them in and they keep them in.
They just they just add them.
It's like, oh, could you not please not? Yeah, like they that's what they do and keep it in.
That's just But they did one with you. It was the first one that we called it a talking you know, goof and it's that as you were walking off the beat, walking down the beach, you were going you would recorded during you know, during when you were looping, you'd recorded this whole thing about I'm going down the beach. Here, I go down the beach. Darren Starr is going to really put me in a lot of episodes. Now, you know, boy, I mean you just.
Talked and you did that.
Somebody asked me to do that, and looping and I did it.
Yeah you don't remember.
I mean it sounds possible, it sounds good for you, and somebody asked me to do it and Granted.
Now did you because we noticed in watching it that all of a sudden, it's like eight nice kids trying to make it and all of a sudden, there's an episode where it's just I think it was me and Andrew and you and Grant, Right, all of a sudden, it's just these romances against each other.
Yeah, because like carrying through they were.
Yeah, like they were like there were just two sexy.
It's just everybody. It was me and Keith, So it's just it's just make out to make up everything. Did we do anything but make out these No?
Well, you know what what happened at the end once we turned into a sob the triangles start to Crisco. We'll give Jane sister. We need this marriage is so boring. We need to do something. They've had a miscarriage. We're out of story, so I just want to read the paper everywhere. So so so we were, you know, we started experimenting with it, and Marcia was one and you were the other. Marcia came in two show arc and it was just supposed to be a slight flirtation and
it was I think it was Nancy Malone. And I did the casting, so she had a co producer and the director of the casting. You know, there weren't the line of executive producers. No one was there. And she walked in and I went, oh my god, she's Nicole Kidman, only I think she's actually more beautiful and I and then she gave this really good performance and we go great, you know. So she did her scenes and I'm telling everybody,
look at dailies, look at this person. So right away, you know a few of us went, oh my god, lightning in a bottle. This is great. And we thought, and this is what we used to mess with originally to yeah to the the couple.
Yeah, because we've seen her on and it's so small. I mean we saw her two different episodes.
She's in an elevator, there's a scene where she's literally in an elevator and she just looks at him and he looks at her. I mean, and I remember thinking, oh my god, it was all subtext.
It was possibility, was there.
Yeah, she's disappeared, so yeah, it's interesting.
And she disappeared, and it took a while for us to get her to come back, I mean, or to get people to say, yeah, there's really something here, and then you know the rest, and then we killed her off and.
Then you need the whole started the whole Melrose, and then why not Sydney and Kimberly?
Why not both crazy? Still waiting who did you have an affair with? First? I don't remember, you know, that's I think Michael didn't.
I don't think it was I think it was you.
And then after you, I don't remember.
Yeah, I feel like I feel.
Like somebody in this room is not on top of.
Things, watching in real time, and we're just not there yet.
Yeah.
So getting back to what you said, because it's really interesting. So we have the meaning tonative. So so we said, okay, uh, you know, and the first thing you do is you create triangles, quadrangles, you bring in the bedroom so to speak. I'm trying to be when do we even get rid of the bedroom. It's I know, well, once we started,
we never did. And you know, the the initial concept was, you know, a platonic relationship between you know, and Darren always told me it was the platonic relationship he had with you when you were roommates, that that was the influence of the show.
Remember, well, do you remember I remember him saying he based Allison on me.
We did.
We lived in a tiny little apartment. He had a guy roommate. I have a girl roommate.
We shared one bathroom, I believe, in this tiny little right off UCLA because we're uc together.
And uh, I mean, but I don't see how it was me because it wasn't He wasn't. I not his type, Billy. Those two kind of moon for each other. But that's not it obviously.
But was that always the plan or was it just that Andrew and I fell into bed so quickly.
They so interesting I thought it took forever to get you to a bit I remember.
I mean, and you're talking about on camera the show in real life, it was like we wanted to bring the show to.
For a long time. And I'm a professional, I'm like, oh my god, it was episode two.
Well it was. It was like two, I go, we can't keep these guys platonic for long, I mean on the show as characters, I mean, and so we thought, okay, and you know, well, well we'll build to it. So we put every kind of a you know, soap impediment between the two of you, and it really it really worked. I mean it really worked.
Heather.
Heather was you know, no different than Marsha Cross. I mean, yes, she was the great Heather Locklayer. And there was you know, I mean the casting of Heather. The writers were really had nothing to do with it, including Darren for a while. He might you know, correct me, and I just don't know. But it was like we created the character first. We didn't. Wow, somebody didn't come to us and say create a character for Heather Locklayer. No, because you we said okay, well
and then I guarantee this was me. But you were working you know, in an ad agency and with Lucy.
Every year.
Yeah, Deborah, and you know that was good. But it was good on an episodic basis. It was she's a small part. You two, you don't get along. She's an evil boss, a Devilwar's product. Uh, you know, and that
that's a you know, episodic kind of a relationship. And so when we turned it into a soap, we said, we should get rid of Lucy and we should bring somebody in who wants you know, who tortures you, but wants your guy, you know, and that will slow down Billy and Allison is if we bring somebody between him who's beautiful, who he falls in love with and makes all that stupid mistake and then it sends you to the keys of the world and all of that. So
it kind of it happened that way. And then we started casting and we actually did read some actresses I remember, and then you know, with just you know, the lowly producers and uh and then Aaron calls up and says, how about Heather Lockleyar, I mean, he really, I'm doing my errand imitation have we've done it years respect for the you know, the dearly departed. But he said, guys, you know Heather, she's she's great, she's magic, you know, those eyes, and you know she's been real good for me.
She's my lucky penny, you know. And we had this like conference call where we're all listening to this and going oh okay, all right, uh, you know, and then hung up the phone. We go, you know, she's going to take over the show, you know, thank god, you know, yea over things. Yeah, no, and uh and then we all calmed down and then uh, Aaron had sent down, you know, a VHS of a movie. She'd just done something up in you know, movie of the week up
in Canada, and she she had done it. And we looked at her and she looked fabulous.
Yeah, she didn't look any older.
I thought, oh my god, yeah, she looks amazing, amazing. So so you know, we hired her. And then she didn't want to be a bitch, and you know, so we did some last minute rewriting which we weren't used to make her not a bitch. And then you know, we're looking at the cuts, going, it doesn't matter what we wrote, it's coming out out. You know. The subtext she she just she knew how to put. She was the rival, you know, she was going to be a little troublemaker, and you know it was I.
Thought it was her natural sweetness that sort of shone through because you wanted to hate her, but you couldn't fight because she was saying to Alison, is it okay? There something going on? And Allison kept stumbling over herself. Yeah, yeah, that's interesting that you wrote it that way. But then has there such a good bitch later?
So yeah, but yeah, I mean she developed that way once the you know, once the blinders are off. I mean, when she slept with Billy, you know, it was like, okay, you can't.
Keep playing it, and she kept throwing it in your face and yeah.
And you'll have the proverbial wish that she'd never been born. I wrote that line, that's right, it's a it's a line that I taught writing at Chapman College for two years a while back, while I was doing the Secrets of Self Springs. But I would show them clips of Melrose. You know, uh, you know these are young, you know, they all are all gonna be great screenwriters in their minds, you know, and uh, and I show them the line.
But I would show I'd show clips from YouTube because there's no way that they would you know, read, or that I could be able to find the script. And the one I would do is is Heather backs you into a corner at D and D. There were like five of them after I wrote mine. Everybody started to write it, and it's the thing. She goes, I'm gonna make I'm gonna make your life so miserable, and then you'll have that proverbial wish you'd never been born? Do you remember? Was great?
I don't like And we said.
It was the you know, there were certain you know moments we call them. You know, Uh, that's Melrose, we would say, and we go that scene, we go, that's Melrose. We're just sitting in the editing room. We go, that's me and what's his name on Channel five? Who just passed away? Yeah, yeah, he did his quote of the week. Uh, you know, so we would all, you know, the competition, you know, like that line.
Didn't Sydney say to her own mother, get back on your broomstick and fly back.
That famous life life? I think Darren wrote that, I don't remember. Yeah, it wasn't Frank. Frank. Frank was so in the beginning uncomfortable with all of it. There was a great, a great moment. Frank, he's not gonna be listening, but if he is, he'll go, I'm gonna call Chuck. But we were. It was his first episode. I think that he wrote that's like episode eight, I want to say, uh, and he had jake probably your door or it might
have been your door. I don't know whose doory was that, but he was saying and he recited poetry.
Yeah, we were all like, oh Cashmire lyrics, cashmre.
Sweater and he does the thing.
But anyhow, it was so not what we've been doing up until then. It was. It was well written. Frank. That was his first script. And so we're in we're in the editing room looking at it and going cut it, Frank, cut it, cut it, cut it. Just having walk up, We'll just you know, cut all the dialogue and just a look and then we'll be out. You know, I mean it was, it was. It was fine, but Frank's going, no, no, no, no, it's the whole crux. It's the whole thing. It's the
whole theme that poem. I love that poem. I've read read that poem to my wife and she said yes when we got married. Anyway, he was passionate about.
It so well, the girls loved it, and.
I had bike liked it. You know, I think, you know, I think it was it was you know, I don't remember other people's reaction to it, except Darren was a little like there was always a little like this with Frank.
And uh, how long did it take for Frank to come around?
Well, no, this is this is a story. So you know, we would all we would march up, you know, got in the gutter, you guys. It was almost every week, but we would be taking a producer's cut up to Aaron for him to do his cut. Uh, you know, and and I mean I have a lot of stories about those. We'd all sit on the long couch and uh, the editors would be there and all of us chip for a while. But then I think year two he stopped coming. But we'd all be sitting on the couch
and Duke would be there. I mean, it was it was the brain trust and we would turn down the lights and then Kenny his his his post guy would run the thing, you know, and you go and stop, don't go for me there, you know, and you go and then you'd watch it and then you know, you kind of watch it by act and he'd sometimes stop twice in the whole episode and go a great episode guy. Sometimes he'd you know, twenty times he was having a
bad day. We were screening Frank's episode, you know, and it was going along fine, and it came to that scene and the big log speech at Grant given it us all and doing the poem, and in the in Aaron's office, you had a different feeling for the show. It wasn't necessarily you know, it's like, what is he
going to think of it? Because he didn't you know, he loved the show, but he saw it in context of nine to two, one zero and other shows that were really very different, and we wanted to be very different. And so Frank he just I could demonstrate, but it's radio, but he just lowered his head and put his head in his hands. Because Aaron stopped afterwards.
Oh and you just feel it.
He goes, guys, guys, and Frank just goes down like this. Aaron looks looks at Frank, and you know, he hadn't known him for very long, you know, none of us, and we're all looking at Frank, and I thought, oh my god, he's having like a nervous breakdown, or he's he's going to start crying. I don't know what he's gonna do. And and Aaron goes looks at me, and I go, I don't know, I don't know what's wrong, you know, and everybody, and I remember Darren. Darren would
just get so amused by these things. Nothing really bothered him, and he would just sit there certain things. Bother memore when he took out a phone one day about something or other. I don't remember what early on, but we're sitting there and then Frank just gets I go I was the one who said, Frank like a father to a kid. Frank, and he put his head up and he goes, cut it, just cut it, and goes, well, we agree on that. But it stayed. It stayed. I think that Aaron had a change of mind. It stayed.
It did seem I mean, it worked for us.
It wasn't the show. I mean, it wasn't what we'd been doing up until then. No, it was very.
They're also looking at it thirty years later, going oh that's so sweet and that works. But maybe at the time, yeah, we know, I think everybody may have been watching it differently.
So it was like, what was.
That screaming guitars? I mean we were we were more screaming guitars now seen over two pages. That was my rule. I said, you know, this audience they're going to lose interest.
And it was the whole poem. It wasn't just like, oh yeah, a couple of a lot of it.
You know, he was this like literate writer, this you know, fancy writer that comes in and.
Deals with you guys.
I know, I'm just trying to get some freaking poetry in the show.
And you're like, no, he got down in the mud with us pretty quick.
But we're coming to the end of our time, so we want to get some really important questions, like what was you remember the craziest storyline that you liked the most or hated the most, Like what do you remember as.
A thing that you couldn't get in?
Maybe, Oh, that's a great question. So that's like nine questions in one.
Yeah, we'll start with I couldn't get in And it's the very last episode of Melrose and we wanted Courtney to come back. Yeah, did they offer you money? Did it ever?
Get to the know they wanted me to come back.
I was working on Alan mcbill at the time, and that schedule was crazy and we just couldn't make it work. And I remember trying to like, if I could get there by the end, I could do something and we were we were like eighteen hour days on the show.
So I'm so bummed.
I have the scene and we were going to bring Billy back to We were going to bring them both and Marcia uh and and sorry, well you could have brought she was dead one three.
Yeah, I was so we couldn't get I couldn't get off.
Set literally, So so I wrote and directed the episode. And there was a scene in a bar, yes, and and and I had something. No, there was just an empty stool, and I had the camera moves by and stops and there's a bar with it just one stool, you know, there are no other stools or there were two stools, and it was going to be a Billy and Alison moment. And I just had it. And I thought, I'll always know that you know what that means. But
you know, so favorite favorite storyline was memorable. There were so.
Many that you like, people like that were that you were that were the most fun.
Like I think of the building blowing up.
Yeah yeah, I mean the building. Everybody's made a big deal of it, and it was you know it was during the Oklahoma bombing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he did except the uh certainly on the production side, but uh that we were going to do it at the end of the season, but because of the Oklahoma bombing, we just had her go it gets worse, which is my favorite line on the show ever. I don't even know.
That's great.
You know, it goes this is ah, this is very bad. She goes, No, it gets worse. That's great.
Yeah, who did Joe's baby? Let's give her a baby?
Oh yeah, that was get Let's have her.
That's when I went on Models Inc. But I was part of I was part of that. Yeah. Yeah, that was a lot of Carol Mendelssohn. I think she came on, you know, she had no experience and so but I'd worked on Gabriel's Fire with her and I had suggested her. I said, you're going to need someone to replace me. I go. She has taped every episode of General Hospital. She is a total soap fan, even though she writes crime shows. And so they brought her in and you know she was.
So you left as a writer producer for a while to go do Models Inc.
Off the season. Then I came back season later.
Yeah, and did you stay till the end the last of the seven seasons?
Yeah?
And how did it feel for you when it shifted, because we talk a lot about you know, we left, you left after four, we left after five, Like what did that?
It was? Yeah, it did?
Which your real question to ask questions? My question was where the three of us are very favorite.
Yeah, you know, we get down to like why did you leave? And stuff? I know Chip talked to you about that, and you know, sometimes it's money. Sometimes it's some creative decision. And I honestly, with you, I don't remember, and with you I kind of remember. I remember being completely against it, but there were powers that be that were I don't know if it was money or what it was, but they were, you know, and and you know Grant leaving, Uh, you know it. You know as writers,
you're just for writers. It's an opportunity to bring in new characters that you know, you guys, we ran you through a soap mill like unbelievable. You know, marriages and you know deaths and crime and you know, god knows what, going crazy and stuff. And you get to a point where, wow, what did we do with the next You know, we can't rehabilitate them or make this past go away and
ignore it like they do in daytime. So but so it was a it was a case of, you know, in some cases like we don't have any more story, you know, we got to go in a different direction of people. We got to give these put the new people through new scenary people. But I remember I was the one who said I took it like personally every time somebody left, because I said, oh my god, you know,
I was here. I wrote to episode two and you know, and and I just remember the whole journey and it's like those for initial people walking down the street, you know, walking down Melrose room was and it became and it evolved. And believe me, I loved every person we brought on, and I liked all of their their stories. You know, we jumped the shark so many times that you know, like when do we first jump the shark? And uh, you.
Know, I.
Like and you know, I wrote and directed that last episode and uh it was so sad, you know, and and uh it was so sad. I made sure the last shot was of Heather, you know. And I think the feeling was at Fox as long as Heather's on the show, it doesn't matter who else is on the show. They had they had moved on in their mind, but you know, the ratings were starting to go down, you know, and then the last year, I know why it was canceled, why we didn't get an eighth season, which we really wanted.
Uh it was the show between the lawsuits and the stuff, it was really tainted, and you know, and quite frankly, they said, we can't afford to pay Heather.
Yeah.
Yeah, a lawsuit, the pregnancy lawsuit.
Yeah, the pregnancy lawsuit. And then uh the Jerry, remember the assistant director Jerry. Yes, yeah, I was. I was all a part of that. But luckily, you know, that's what sent Frank and Chip and Harry, Oh god, Harry, very greatest guy.
We have to have you back because clearly you have like a treasure trope more.
We could do this.
I didn't even pick up my questions. I don't know, we just do.
I have one more question, just based on something you were describing as just the process of the writer's room, the task of writing the episode would rotate amongst the writers.
Is that correct?
But like, did you find that you had like a character or a voice that were the writers that were particularly good at writing this particular voice?
And you know, did you have to be a writer in the show. You had to. You had to be able to write everybody. You know. I loved I like writing, Courtney. I loved writing uh you know, Amanda, I you know, I would say, uh in latter years, I loved Jack Wagner because he was just so disgusting, you know. I mean I thought, I thought I can just let out my ikey icky, you know. But but and and there
were writers who loved to write certain things, you know. Uh, I know, Carol loved writing Daphanie and all the women, and uh, Darren, I think the original core group was always his favorite. But uh, you know, but you know, writing it, well, you had to write every character, you know, And and we were going so fast. We'd break these things, you know, up on a big board and then send
the writer off. And I was always writing. I mean I was writing an episode, or I was something with shooting that I wrote, or you know, and that was true of all of us, you know.
And because you were writing at such a pace, did you did you have to adjust and pivot when you go, oh my gosh, the storyline that we thought was going in this one way, and look at how it's turning.
Out, did you have to go a pivot?
And like completely, I mean a lot. And I think that was one of the keys to the show's success is that we were very fluid. We we didn't get locked into stuff, you know, something better came along or something didn't work, we would just you know, change gears. The Marsha thing, we kill her, you know, in this accident. And actually the way that happened was was a little like Chip told it, but it was. It was actually Darren and I and I think somebody else I don't
know who had dinner. This was a yeah, it was during Frank, but Frank wasn't there. He was home. We had we had a really nice you know, you always eat well when you're around there. So we went to
in the valley somewhere, you know. We went to a great French French meal and a bottle wine, and then we drove out to watch Marsha get killed in this in the spectacular car crash that did go beyond it, and we just sat and talked to Marsha for the longest time, and I never really had talked to her much, and you know, and she went back and we shot the scene and I looked at Darren. I go, let's not kill her, and he goes, Chuck, we just killed
her on the film. And I said yeah, I said, but you know, we we can keep her alive and have her come back from the dead. You know, have you the favorite it's a favorite story. I don't even think they can do it anymore. They've done it so often. Nobody really dies, you know. Yeah, and uh, and we said our first thought was we were sitting there and we go, Okay, we got to sell Aaron on this,
you know, got to sell the network on this. And then I said we got to sell Frank because he wrote the next episode where there's an open casket and there's a scene in the hospital. Yeah, and and all this, all this stuff, and so that we were all scratching our ads, going, uh, you know, I mean, Darren and I were going, how are we going to sell this?
How are we going to get this done? And so we uh, what we did was we went back and talked to Frank and he was very upset, and I said, close the casket, put her in a coma, so she's in a hospital bed, and then and then she's when she's in the hospital bed, you did the scene where he comes back and I think, this is the way we did it. And we come back and Michael comes back and the bed is empty, and they say she passed away, and and Frank's going, yeah, and I said, well,
she didn't pass away. Her mother came and got her. And her mother we've never even mentioned her mother. She's in the Midwest somewhere, and she hated Michael, and Michael did this to her. So so her daughter wasn't going to die in front of him, so she took her back to die, and then she wakes up in the coma, you know, and then the you know, the the you know, we wrote the scar but everybody went the set chip and all them they were way over the top. We go, oh my god, who's going to buy this? And is
this too much? Yes?
And the place that's why, that's a perfect place to end it.
That's Chuck, Thank you so much.
Would love We know there's many more stories, Okay, yeah, so many season two.
I mean, we could do a specials.
We could do a special one on models.
They really do our listeners really and fans that write in or comment really ask about the behind the scenes everything that you talked about. So many people are curious about, you know, they're like, oh, these guys are cute to look at.
But you know, you're like, we're in the room when it happened, so we have more and.
We make it. We can't have that old
I was in the room where it a thank you Jack, Thanks, thank you