Still the Place with Laura Layton, Courtney Thorn Smith.
And Daphne's Aniga and iHeartRadio podcast.
Okay, we are super excited today. Welcome to Still the Place with a very special guest star, Lisa Rana. My god, I said guest star. I should have said guest, but I got all excited and I got all flustered. It is so good to see we chatted way too. I'm always saying save it for the save it for the show, save it for the show. But I saw you in the lobby, and then we've already chatted so much.
So fun.
We go way back. I mean we go not only on the show, but in our personal lives.
Yeah, you know, we were neighbors in the fancy Malibu colony.
Hello.
I listened to Lisa and Harry's podcast, which is adorable, And the reason I had to cost you in the lobby is because so we were neighbors when you were pregnant with and had given birth to Delilah. Yes, it was a very special time. Yes, And when I was listening to the podcast, I had this sense memory of being with you and Harry in that time and remembering how sweet you guys are together. And how loving you are to each other, how what good friends you are
and romantic and the podcast really shows that. Just to sit there and get to hang out with such a loving, connected, supportive couple, it brought me right back.
I love that.
It was sweet to go back to that time.
I love that that makes me feel good.
No, it's true.
Yeah, even when you.
Guys are talking about how opposite you are, yeah, like you did recently, you always talk about how the differences are. Yes, And the one I heard recently was, well, how does that work?
What are the things that are similar? You know about each other?
But I think it's just when you meet someone, it just feels like you've met a soulmate.
I think it is. I mean people ask us all the time, you know, as you know, when you've been married for twenty seven twenty eight years, They're like, what's the secret, And you know, I've thought about it a lot. I don't think there's a secret. I think it's luck. I really do. I just think it's luck. I think we came together, it works for whatever reason, and we're just lucky.
Like, well, you guys enjoy each other, Like that's what comes through in the podcast, like and you were talking and you said you haven't had any guests yet because you guys like chatting with you.
It's true, we have not had one yest so.
Much fun like hello, I know, I keep saying we're gonna have a guest on and then we go and I learn more about him than I mean, you think at this point, thirty two years together, you'd know everything about the person that you're married to.
I don't, And all of a sudden, it's just I stay so curious, and I think that's what makes it interesting because stories come out of him. I mean, he is a storyteller through and through, and he's lived, you know, many different lives, so I find it so interesting when we start to talk about different topics. It's just really been fun.
So what have you recently learned about him that surprised you.
I did not know that he got a prescription subscription to Playboy at eleven?
Yeah, his poor a prescription for Playboy.
He was prescribed Playboy by the parents at age eleven, and not for him under the Christmas tree a subscription to Playboy. Yes, well, the brother who's two years older did not get that. And I said, what they thought you were gay? Right, they were afraid you were going to be gay, and he says that probably he didn't know for sure because at the time you're just like wow.
He was like, wow, I got a Playboy.
So he thought it was the coolest thing the early seventies, probably sixties.
Okay, So because Harry Hamlin got a subscription to Playboy from his parents from his parents at eleven, Yes, is that what inspired you to do Playboy?
No, because I didn't really know about it, which is I think it's interesting that I ended up doing it when he has this subscription it.
Yeah, for those of you who don't remember, Lisa for Playboy, pregnant insanely gorgeous and really we're an icon for people saying, oh my god, I get to be beautiful, yeah and sexy when I'm pregnant.
And I did that while I was on Melrose. Yes, and the story goes I had said I want to do this, and we reached out and they said, well, hef needs to see he needs to see polaroids. Remember at the time, there's my cell phones, said hef needs to see polaroids of me pregnant, and I thought, okay, So I had the makeup girl one of the makeup artists,
I can't remember her name. Come to my trailer. I remember we had the paneling, Yeah, round paneling, a trailers, all trailers round paneling, round paneling, which, by the way, is good lighting and it's kind of nice. So she
came in and I said. It was right before Valentine's Day, and I said, I'm want to take these pictures for Harry for Valentine's Day of me naked, and she was like okay, and she just took them and we literally put them in an envelope and sent them off, and I guess he thought they were good enough for me to host me.
That's the funny. Only in Hollywood did you say to someone you come take naked pictures of me.
They're like sure, yeah, during lunch hour, you know I was working.
That's hilarious.
Sure, that feels right. Yeah, it felt really right. She had no problem with it. She shot off like four or five polaroids and that was That's.
What I think Calvin Klein stole that for his member, Calvin Klein's campaign for for Calvin Klein when the jeans and they were against all of this wood paneling and they're like nothing naked jeans, and I'm like, that's right, yours got they leaked them the original.
There's still somewhere in that house you set the bar.
Lease.
Oh you do you still still have them somewhere.
Oh that's fantastic.
Yeah.
So did you get a lot of positive feedback from women for doing that?
You know, at the time, there was no social media, There was no feedback you could really tangibly get, so, you know, I probably had everything, but that was the bliss of not knowing back in the day.
That's so true. Think about it.
I had no idea. Yeah, it didn't matter.
Yeah.
If I did it today, I'm sure there would be many people with a lot to say.
Yeah, that was the all ends of the spectrum, you'd hear.
Yeah, yeah, we're naive. We had no idea.
That was the beauty back then, wasn't it.
You can just do you learn as you went, you know, redo something if you didn't like how it felt doing it. But it wasn't like you do something and the world has an opinion instantly instantly. So that leads to my question list. I've wanted to know this for a while. You know, when we knew you, I had never worked with you. On Melrose because I left before you came on, but I knew you through other ways somehow. Yeah, but you were an actress and before that you did the
soap and you had been acting. So then you choose to do the housewives, and you choose to there's nothing to hide behind. It's not only you, but it's exposing all of you. Yeah, what was that like for you to go and let everyone in and be you without a script?
It's very It's challenging, but also not because again you're still on camera. You're still interacting with other women, so you know, again it's reality. But yet you guys are still we're filming, you know, we're doing a television show.
So the part about it that I think was difficult is, you know, once it aired, the fan reaction to you being yourself in that environment, and of course you can't be your full self because you're still like in an environment where they want conflict with women, which I'm not used to. I mean, we do it on camera as an actor, no problem. That was the hard part is having conflict with other women because I'm a girls girl. Yeah, and so again though I'm an actor who takes really
good direction, right, we take really good direction. Somebody tells us to do something, you go, Okay, I know it needs to be done. So I was very good at doing that, and I was very good at bringing you know, good television to television. But it's it's real to you and you can't just drop it at the end of the day. You take it home. You take it personally. And I found that very difficult, and.
You can't do a take two, like maybe I should have said that that sounded too snarky, or it's.
There, it's done, and it lives forever, as you know.
One of the interesting things that you and Harry talked about on the podcast was, well, there were two things I thought were super interesting. Number one, you said that each each cast member has to pay for her own parties.
And your own hair and makeup and wardrobe. WHOA, so imagine that that's the part that's the hardest because.
They did it.
Guys.
Imagine, oh my god, all your own parties, hair and makeup because they want your real life, they want it to be I still don't buy it. I think that they're just cheap and hair and makeup should be covered, obviously, I really do. That was the hardest thing.
For me, because you're in a world that they want you to be in. Like at home, you don't do your hair and makeup every single day, but you're in their world, so they should pay for how they want you to look in their world, how they demand you look.
And then well that's the thing. Their take on it is you should look how you look because this is your life, and so they want that. But I didn't love that part of it because I spend all my money on hair and makeup and wardrobe, you know what I mean, It just you spend it all.
So this is giving me such insight. Some point was offered. Of course you were, I'm sure, and I wasn't interested in doing it, but like, this is such a revelation because I was always like, yeah, no, I'm you know, I'm not glamorous and I'm not a Beverly Hills housewife. I don't self identify like I feel like I would fit that would not fit me. And now I see, oh my god, it definitely I can't imagine if I was like my own clothes and imagine I mean.
It's a lot of work. Yeah, address yourself, even just every time you have a dinner, a lunch, travel. I mean it's a lot I.
Don't think people know. And you look so fabulous all the time and you did that.
Thank you. It just you know. On our show, what happened was Erica Jane came on season whatever it was, and she came on at the level that was this high, right, So at that point we weren't really like dressing crazy and doing a lot of you know, fashion. She came on and we were like, oh, we got to step our game up and we all felt it. So everybody like rose up to that. So it's interesting how it ebbs and flows with who's on the show and.
What season was that.
I came on season five for that show too, so I come on shows season and she probably came on seven I think, or she came on right after me.
Yeah.
So one of the things that came up in the podcast that was again such a sweet moment between you and Harry is someone had asked if you were going to go back, and he said, I don't think I would let you because it was so hard on you.
Yeah, oh sweet, such a sweet yeah him.
Yeah, really seeing how hard it was for you and really caring and caring about you, which he so obviously does. And so my question is did it feel worth it? Like obviously it was hard emotionally, and as you were talking about those events, it would feel like, you know, once a year I have to go to a lunch or a dinner that I dread where I don't feel comfortable. It feels like you had to do that every.
Day, every day, Wow, every day.
I can even imagine.
At the time that it came around, I needed a change in my life. I needed to shake it up, and I knew it. And when I I had gone into the very first auditions they had so five years earlier, I had gone in and didn't end up getting it because at the point at that point, Andy didn't want any actresses. He didn't want anybody who had a name, and so you know, move along, you know, just keep doing my thing. And then five years later when they came, I thought, you know what, Bravo is such good real
estate right now. And that's the way I looked at it. Like business wise, I had just started on QVC and I saw, you know what Beth Andy Frankel had done with her businesses on the show, and I thought, you know, this might be a good thing. Eight years later. I don't think I would have I would change it because I think everything that I've done, as you know, it always leads to our next moment and it's meant to be. But I also think I left at the right time.
Yeah, I mean you got some good things.
You got great I mean you have a great personality, you know, like someone well, thank you you do when you don't have the script. You have this like natural personality to be out there and engaging and engage with people.
And I think it's a great thing for you. And I'm glad you left then.
Yeah, and you did it did get you a chance to do other things as well. I don't know if that you said the QVC came first.
QVC came first. I had businesses while I did the show. I mean it was a super good thing while I did it.
Well, it's also good like you're so honest and so willing to be able. And one of the things you talked about on the podcast was.
To my detriment on that kind of.
Show though you know, I understand in the moment it feels like to your detriment, But I think it's really important to have authentic, honest, open hearted people out there, I think even though, yes, their consequences being open and honest, but it's still worth it to live your authentic life.
Yeah.
And you talked about experiencing postpartum in this really open, honest way, and at the time you didn't have any references, so you are that reference for people like this can happen FYI. And you said in the podcast, you know, call your doctrines, say I don't know what it is, but I feel crazy because the time you went through it, you had no frame of reference, none, and it lasted fifteen months.
Wow.
And imagine you know, just silently suffering, really and thinking that I really was just crazy and you know, didn't know how to be a mother, and you know, on and on and on and on, failure and horrible, I mean really devastating.
The doctor not diagnosed or well not.
At the time, because I didn't really share it with him.
Because he felt so shameful.
It's all about the shame of it, you know. I felt so shameful in front of Harry and my mom, and my mom had come and really helped out. And you know, Harry thought I was crazy. He thought I had literally lost my mind. And so there was so much shame around it. It took fifteen months for me to finally say, you know what, I have to call my doctor because I am there, I am not right. And so once I did, and Harry even saw me at one point and said, you need to call Howie my doctor right away.
Our doctor, our doctor, right he's seen my lady.
Different house. Also not Howie Mandel.
I'm feeling crazy, Howie. I called Howie and Howie was like, we were in Canada. We were at our place in Canada, and he said, Okay, I'm going to put you on an antidepressant. It's going to take three weeks to really kick in. I have to fedexit to you. So I was just like holding on by a thread until I got it in my body. And I will say that it reset my clock, my whatever was going on within the three weeks. And then I only ended up being on it for like four months and then I was
able to ty trate off of it. It saved my life. Wow, saved my life.
So it was just was it more? Was it every day depression? You couldn't get out of bed? Was it swinging?
Hopelessness?
Hopelessness?
It was hopelessness. And I even said on the podcast with Harry. I was having these visions, and a lot of people that have postpartum can relate to this. I didn't necessarily have visions of like killing Harry, but I had visions of knives. We had to get all the
knives out of the house. I had visions of myself and I've heard Brookshields speak of this, taking my car, driving my car just with me in it and hitting a brick wall, like smashing into a brick wall, Like why why are we having Why was I having those visiones? Crazy hormones They dropped from like how we said three thousand to zero. Yeah, like once I stopped breastfeeding because I had some trouble.
Maybe your body experiences out as a death and manifested in that other way, because it's what a drop, right. It was brutal. It was really brutal.
But I remember having this.
I've never been pregnant or I've never had and I've never but I during perimenopause, yeah, or the first moment you just your hormones drop and change. I had visions, did you? Yes? And I was just starting to date my husband and this poor guy was like yeah, and I what if I not if I run him over.
But I.
Just kept going and pretend I didn't know him and I never have to see him again.
Oh my god. Something about hormones and women and husbands. Yeah, that's the weirdest thing.
Yeah, my I didn't have I had a different postpartum, which is it manifested. As I was super attached. I was afraid to leave my baby. I was afraid to leave him, and I would have like I was protecting him and me from the world. So I put in like a security door and I put in an alarm, and at night I would just go over emergency like disaster plans, disaster plans, disaster plans. I was thinking like there would be a tidal wave, so I kind of
projected it out against us. But as I'm talking to him, going, oh that's very similar, it's slightly different. But I thought it was coming from the outside, like I would have visions that I literally just think about this of like Ninja's coming in, like I have to protect myself from the ninjas. Yeah, so it's probably the same thing, just protect project differently. It's just do you have that every scenario scenario terrifying scenario.
I wonder if that's our fight or flight, Like it goes back to you know, caveman age. I don't know, but it feels like something that we don't necessarily need right now, but maybe they needed it back in the day. I don't know. It's insane.
Yeah, you have this incredibly vulnerable, helpless thing, like we're the only animal where babies come out and they can't do anything. It just it's not like a you know, a horse who gets up and runs away. It's like they're just this completely vulnerable blob for a solid couple of years. I think that is terrifying because it was like, how do I get to him there's an earthquake? How
do I get to him and cover him? And it was like I ended up like at a certain point sleeping in his crib because I was so like, so that's how yours manifested, That's how I manifested. Yeah, so it can be that's part of it too. I think that's confusing for people. It can be so many different things.
So important to get to the other side of the shame and just share whatever it is, say, just to share it with friends, your doctor, just say I'm having these this is whatever this thought is keeping me up at night. Yeah, help me, right, you only have a few hours to sleep. You need that sleep, like try.
And that doesn't help, you know, the lack of sleep. I mean, I was out of my mind. I can literally say I was out of my mind.
Did it happen with your second?
It did, but we got on it right away. I mean the minute it started happening. Harry looked at me and said, call how we right? This second was in like three weeks, four weeks, whatever it was, and I got right back on the ante.
Amazing. Yeah, So hopefully you've help some women who will then reach out sooner and not have to suffer.
Yes, yeah, it's nobody talks about it enough. You know, nobody talks about number one, how to be a mother, how to have a baby, And there's no way.
To do with it, prepare us anyway, like we you know, everybody says, Hi, I feel so unprepared, of course, because there's absolutely no way to prepare you for the most until.
You do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean I think there's more now. I think, like I have a lot of issues with social media, but I think a positive thing is you have a place to go. Like when I had Jack and I was in baby group. We had email at least, so four in the morning when you were up with your baby, you could send out an email and like five women would respond because we
all had these tiny now like you could. There's a whole world of people who are there with their experience strengthen help like we didn't have.
That though we didn't. We just I suffered in silence. Yeah, so no more suffering in silence.
Yeah, talk about it, but.
You feel, but you feel again, We're going to just dwell on your wonderful partnership. Did you feel even even though must have been really scary for Harry, it was that there was a support, you were still a team or as much as you tried.
To break it up.
Yeah, your hormones.
You know, he was such a patient man, really is. He has patients of a saint, and I think he just was like he just got in there and helped, you know, he just helped out.
That's I just think that's so important that you know, we really that women can really try to cultivate and see their partner as a team player. Because I think our hormones, whether it's postpartum or perimenopause or menopause or that time of the month when you're still having your period.
I feel like.
When men get scared, they don't understand. It's really minimized in our culture.
It's like, oh.
Crazy, But you know, there needs to be a support system there because he needs to have some compassion around all that. And I just hope that there's more. There seems to be a movement right now, a moment about perimenopause and menopause.
I know.
I'm so happy to see that too. I mean, women are really talking about I think Halle Berry's really been so in the forefront of that, Naomi Watts writing a book about it, like finally finally talking about it, and women for all of that age, like, let's face it, we're all in it. I mean, I'm way out of it at this point, but I mean, nobody talks about taking hormones. Nobody talks about any of it. Yeah, so I'm glad to be starting to talk about it.
What are some of the things that you do do in this time of life in this I'm reading this wonderful book.
It's Cheryl Richardson. It's called Self Care in the Wisdom Years.
Ooh oh, I'm going to read that term.
The wisdom years, you know, because that's a new way to Yeah, I like it talk about this as opposed to like, oh, you know you're older. It's a beautiful time in so many ways. So I'm just wondering if you have noticed like ways that you take care of yourself now that you didn't when you were younger.
Well, you know, I think when you get to be this age and this wisdom in this era, I think back to myself in my twenties, and I was so hard on myself. I don't know if you guys were too.
You probably were.
We're so hard on ourselves that I'm to a point now where I'm talking to other people saying, you know, if I were to go back and talk to my twenty year old self, I would just say, everything's gonna be okay, you know, don't worry so much. Have more fun. And I think this is such a great point in life because you've been through it, you've survived, you've kind of come out the other end of it, really, and life is wonderful. You know. We've been very blessed. I
feel very blessed. I'm very grateful, and I love this time. I was a mess in my twenties.
Yeah, that's We talk about that all the time because of course we're watching rewatching Maro's Place and we're in our twenties, and just the intensity it all felt so serious now that it's been fun about re meeting all our friends now, which is we all are much better wearing life like a loose shirt. Like we're just like, it doesn't we know, it doesn't matter. Almost almost everything I worried about then doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter. Oh my god, it doesn't matter. And you just you know, I try to talk to my girls about that because you know, they're living in this age of social media and.
It matters even more. Oh it feels it must feel so much.
I can't even imagine what it actually feels like, but I can see how it affects them. And I always say, guys, your twenties just it's a blur. Don't worry about it. You're still you know, your frontal lobes are not even developed. You're pretty stupid at this point, and it's going to get better.
But I think the twenties are brutal, brutal, real, So we haven't even because we've been having so much fun talking to you about everything else.
The gift a gap.
No, it's great.
So well you have for gift of getting to what's really authentic and true. But now let's get back to shallow. I'll take a step back to show I can.
Quickly go shallow going on in season and five, And did you.
Audition at that time?
I did not. Okay, see this is interesting. You'll remember. But they had cast another actress to play Taylor McBride. Yes, an actress, Hunter Tylo and she happened to be pregnant. Oh yes, And so if you remember, they felt that this character of Taylor McBride would not it would not be wouldn't remove them to cast a pregnant woman. Cut to of course, the lawsuit that she filed and the five million dollar lawsuit I believe, and she went, she did, and I'll never forget Heather and I had to go
testify and we were both pregnant. We were both pregnant on that witness stand.
Okay, what wait, you were testifying testimony.
We had to go and testify on the side of spelling. We know we were subpoenaed, and I'll just never forget that. I was just I don't even know if they knew I was pregnant, Heather was much more. I mean she was like very pregnant and I had just gotten pregnant.
So was that part of your testimony or was that just knowledge that you had that.
I can't remember. I bet it was. I'm sure they knew at the time. I just the irony of it was I was pregnant. And you know, whenever you get a role that somebody else lost, it never really feels one hundred good. Even though this was a big break for me to get this role, I got it under circumstances that didn't feel clean. And I didn't audition for it. I just said, well, I was with Joan Green at the time. She's the manager of Heather, and so.
Joan wasn't two years too, yes, and.
Josie, so she just worked your magic, do you know what I mean? And next thing I know, I'm playing this role. And but you know, it just never felt completely clean because of the circumstance.
I mean, nobody can imagine it any other way.
That's true, you got it, you brought a cuckoo.
But also there was a sense of.
Comedy and like self awareness in some of your stuff. Maybe when Taylor, when your character got more crazy, she was so crazy it seemed like we were talking about with Laura's character, you know. And when Jack was here, you guys had later years there was like this tongue in cheeks, yeah, thing about fun about it.
Well, I think you know you all set that tone, so to come in season five, you guys were a well oiled machine at that point. Well, we were all sort of scattering. So did you come into the beginning of five?
So we worked together for a season, but they were sort of because they knew I was leaving, So I was doing less and less and less. Yea, And they were building you guys.
Up and up and oh that's right, that's right.
And then six and seven. Did it feel different or did it feel the same to you because you just sort of had this three year run.
Well, I think it felt the same to me because I didn't know any different. I think it would be different if I'd come on season one.
Yeah, so this was your cast, like the new cast was your cast?
Yeah, yeah, and there I was there for five and then I left after five as well.
Oh you did, that's right, that's right.
It didn't get to work.
Yeah, I was I was yeah that season five finale.
Right, But because they were sort of because I remember an episode at the end where I had one scene in in an episode because they were trying to make the audience forget about us, right, is that what.
The doing our character?
They were writing us out bit by bit by bit hoping the audience wouldn't notice that. But some of their old friends left.
But I think more during your years, Lisa, there was more of that kind of like physical comedy, thinking about you like knocking on the door with Jack and then he like shuts says go away, and then you run around and you're like and like in a slip or something, and you're just so good at that physical comedy that it.
Was really fun. And the time where I took the door and I smashed my face with the door.
What what is that?
It was so much fun? It did? It got crazier and crazier after you guys left.
How'd you on the podcast talk about did you have a stunt double at times where there's.
A stunted Yeah, Because I remember we went to Oxnard and there was like a train accident and I don't know who was on the train track. Don't look at us, you know, and I remember I was with Jack. Yeah, God, I don't even know who else was there, but there was crazy, crazy crazy.
And your your general story arc was like that you came in as the sister of Peter, who's Jack Wagner's Peter's ex wife, and you were the sister, but then you had you had a thing for him, for Peter, and you were kind of like the little sister or married him, but you were married to Kyle.
I remember, you know, you have memories of some things, and memory not memories of others. I remember one day where I had to film make out with Jack and Michael in the same day.
I mean one day, no, yeah, one day, yeah, not them specifically.
Yeah, never had to do that again, but yeah, I went for both of.
Was it double ups or all in one episode?
You know, that's a good question, because those double ups were intense where we would film two episodes at the same time. It was probably double ups, and that's I think it was. I happened to kiss them both on the same day, like literally one hour, Jack, next hour. Yeah, so for.
The audience sake at least it was an episode apart.
But yeah, so weird.
I remember thinking like on Melrow's Place. Just every day they bring in someone for you to make out with. That's never happened again. I thought, I wish I enjoyed it more. I know, right, say that is no one cared, no one lets me kiss anybody anymore.
Now, it was that that in the soap opera. We were always making out a wars.
Of and you had done Days of Our Lives for three years prior to Melos Place. But how many episodes? I think six hundred episodes of Days of Our Lives? I did, I believe so? And for context for Melrose it was sixty episodes probably right, Yeah, so six hundred and something.
I can't imagine that, but I mean three years that's.
How they go.
Yeah, well didn't you go back later though?
I did a couple of times.
And how did that? How was it? How did it feel?
I would go aback? I think I went back ten years later and then ten years later, so you hits. It was a different casts even ah, pretty much the same stay they stay there the whole time. I mean they they have been there for forty fifty Wow. Imagine that you have a job for that amount of time. Now, some of the cast would change, but half of it would be the same, so you would go back, i' mean playing the same character that would play off of you know, Marlena or Hope or bow Wild.
So with you've done things for a long time that are really like momentous shows. What do you feel like you're associated with which, Well, I.
Have days playing Billy Reid and Melrose playing Taylor for sure are my two biggest things I think I'm known for. And then of course Housewives with all the stuff in between. You know, I did the talk show for a while, Soap Talk for four years. I was a guest on that Were You.
Yeah, I think Doug was too.
Doug was for sure.
Yeah.
So we did that for four years, and then I did Dancing with the Stars and The Apprentice, and I mean I went down the reality rabbit hole.
So Dancing with the Stars, everybody talks about how hard it is, how many hours it's hard? Is it?
Like?
How many hours a day are you dancing?
Well, we were season two, Okay, at that point, we weren't dancing as much as they ended up dancing eight hours a day because we just didn't even know better, you know, we were like we did it as long as we could, but then it got more and more competitive, and they were dancing eight hours a day and it was very difficult because it's so physical, and the people do the best of the Olympians and the athletes because it's crazy physical energy that you.
I mean, dancing, ballm dancing is supposed to be that physical and athletic.
Is it should be an Olympic sport.
It's absolutely athletics.
I know it's athletic. I just never thought and you.
Would injure yourself. I mean you would like your feet would hurt or there was one point we were doing some dance where Louis would grab me around my ribs and I'm sure I bruised a rib. I was in so much pain. I mean, it's very very difficult, but also the time of my life. I loved it so much.
Yeah, and you're super athletic, so.
I think I am, you know, and I'm competitive, and I love that experience. One of my favorite things to do.
How far did you make it? Did you win semi final?
I got number four. I didn't win. But it was the year that Drew Lache won. Oh and he a boy bander dancer like just you know, some people go in there and they just get it. And he was a performer and he knew how to do it.
And did it feel like as it weeks went by, like you wanted it more and more and more.
You get so competitive. But it was also live and it was terrifying. It was terrifying because you know, what if you black out, what if you mess up slip? Yeah, it was terrifying. It was one of the probably the hardest things I've ever done.
So when you were in your thirty forty two. I mean, the thing that shocks me is when I see women who go back like I'm sixty and I'm going to be dude dancing with this.
I don't. I don't think I could do it. Yeah no, I no, it's just to mean some of the women that did it in their seventies, I don't know how yew that. I really don't.
Good for them for signing up.
Yeah, well you see.
They're dancing partners, dancing around.
Yes, but no, actually I've done that. And then out of that what great? What was great about that is I was able. I'd always wanted to do Broadway, and so I was able to audition for Chicago and I literally called them myself and said, I am ready to come audition for you, thinking, you know, I can dance now, so I can do it. So I just believed I could do it. Wow, And I did it. I got it. But they didn't come to me and say, oh, we really want you. I went to them and said, please
let me fly myself to New York. I want to come audition. And I did. That's amazing for you. That's what came out of dancing with me.
So did you already know how to sing?
I had been singing my whole life. I was like choirs, and I mean I wasn't a singer, but I'd studied singing enough to where I could carry.
It to Wow. So what was that?
Like? What was believable? Eight shows a week? You could only eat, sleep, and do the show. And I had the kids with me. I think they were like five and eight at the time. Not their favorite experience. They don't love. They didn't love coming to New York and had you know, we were working constantly and you had to like really focus and it was not their favorite time.
Well, plus mommy leaves it what three in the afternoon.
No six, but then you don't see her because she sleeps in till ten. You're off that schedule. That was very challenging, right.
Did you do the show three months?
Wow?
Three months?
And I did it with Harry? So Harry ended up playing Billy Flynn? No way, Yes, and get this, so I have to fly myself to New York and audition and go through the whole process. So after I finally get it, they said what about Harry? And I said what about Harry? And they said, what do you think about Harry playing Billy Flynn? And I was like, that's a great idea.
Maybe he could audition.
Hi, Harry, do you want to play Billy Flynn? You don't have to audition or anything. You can just show up apart.
Yes please?
Yeah.
So he didn't have to audition anything. He just got the part. And I was like, he's been that lucky his entire career. You know, it's just the way that it has such as.
I feel like clearing the way and giving make opportunity including a tomato sauce.
I might add, truly, yes, listen, I'd hustle for everybody.
I know.
You're just like I hustle for those kids. I mean, you name it.
But it's a natural thing about it.
It isn't natural.
It feels like you. It feels like natural to you.
I don't know where it comes from because both of my parents, you know, I was an only child, a group an only child, and both of my parents were not super you know, hustle like, they just weren't. My dad was an artist, my mom stay at home mom. Where did the drive come from?
Where did the money come from? You had an artist father and a stay at home mom.
Yeah, but he had a he had a job at Harry and David. Oh, so he at least had like, yeah, okay, you know salary that came in. Yes, but you know, just very middle class. I just don't know where the drive came from. I think it came from wanting to get out of Medford and you know, ye live a life, a different life.
But you also seem to have this why not, which I super like. I think that's such a great trait to go through life with. I had a therapist say once, the most damaging feeling you can have his fear of disappointing people, because it's so limiting, and I feel like your attitude is I'll try it. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work, which is such a great attitude.
I've never heard anybody state it like that, but I think you're absolutely right. I do say why not. Yeah, I'm a game, Harry.
I've heard you say those exact words so many times.
I have, and Harry always says, you're game, You're just game, and I am. I like new, challenging experiences. I think it keeps you alive.
Well, I would say too. Like talking about we're saying how do you have a long term marriage? Like you know you said Harry is incredibly patient.
He is.
He's patient and calm, And I'm sure that energy like if you guys aren't opposites because you're really grounded and spiritual and thoughtful and loving, generous people, You're the same in the important ways. That's true. But that energy of why not, I'm sure he's like great, Like it gets him out and moving. He'd probably be home reading a book all the time. If not for you, you take him out in the world.
I mean maybe, I don't know. I think we do the same for each other. You know, his interests are so different from mine that you know he pulls me into his, I pull him into mine, or he watches from Afar and is like, wow, crazy. You look at what she's doing. And I watch from Afar and go how cool. He's like helping the world. He's doing amazing things and it's kind of a brain act. And you know, he has a he has a fusion energy company. He's really really smart. He's a great actor. He's just interested
in things that I'm curious about. Like I didn't have the best education. He did. He graduated from Yale. So I've learned more from Harry than I ever did from school.
You know what I mean.
I love is the respect, that mutuality and that like you let him go do his world and he lets you do yours.
I don't think you get.
More polar opposite than a fusion company and you like dan.
And crazy outfits.
I know, right, it's beautiful, isn't it that there that a marriage can hold all of that?
And it can, you know, it's so can. I mean, our marriage has held a lot, you know, And I think it's really why we're still together.
Well, because you enjoy it about each other. I think that sometimes people are opposite, they resent each other being different. Yes, and you guys, what you just said when I heard you appreciate the differences like they're positives. And that's such a great attitude I do.
And you know, again, we have to work at it. You know, you have to work at it.
You know.
There are times when you know, we've gone to therapy and whatever we need to do because we're not connecting or you know, we're just living separately. We need to come together. I mean we're very cognizant. I think of the work that needs to be done.
Yeah, and they do get back to enjoying each other, but you do most of the time.
I think that's all we can really ask for. That is the most valuable thing. I think it's is that caught when you can be caught, when you can go, oh there's a separation, Oh yeah I need more.
Oh I need to connect and you have someone there to meet you. Yeah, you know what I mean. It's just being aware of it.
Yes, we all get off on our thing and yeah, things seem so important and you're in your little tunnel vision and then it's like I need that connection.
I need that Yes, And I think that's what we do for each other.
That's great.
Sure, And when we notice that we're not we're like, I need this, and we're able to say to the other person, listen, I need this. I want to be more of a team.
You heard you on your last podcast saying you all are going to take a trip.
You need to take a trip. So when's that happening?
God?
Oh wait, maybe that was Maybe you did that months ago. I don't know when you recorded, but.
You did take a little trip for anniversary. Oh we did go to two Bunch of Poms, which we've been going to for Like nice, I.
Hear it's quite different now, quite different. What do we think of it?
Like, well, you know, I don't love change, but I change.
Welcome to Courtney Thorn.
So Courtney.
Yeah, it's changed a lot. There's some basic still there, like the hot pool that you sit in, the natural hot pool, yes, the lithium pool, which I love, But everything else has changed. I prefer it the way.
It used to be because it's so funky.
Maybe Turtle, is it more bogie? Is it like it's not?
Yes, it's more it's more bougie. But it was very it was very rustic. It's still rustic, but it's more like kind of milk toast. As much as I love it, it's not like super fancy. It's kind of in the in the.
You still go down to that dark basement for your massages.
No oh no, So to many people this sounds like a good thing.
Is like that, they don't have gulous place. You loved the little simple things and we'd sit in that like sauna. Yes, it's like they put it over your body. It's like a plastic thing and your head stuck out and they like put tea inside of it and it would steam you. Like weird things like that. Speak the mud baths that are gone. Imagine during co there in other people's like other people's mud mud.
Yeah, you're just getting your name what we're talking about.
Can you imagine what they're thinking of culture mud bat?
And if they do, they're probably put.
A hotel in the desert.
It was very weird. I did it one time and I think that was it. You're just like, you know something right about this.
My girlfriend did it. She's like I've been getting mud out of my ass for four hours.
Yes, and you would try to like put hot water in it to clean it. What it's mud?
Still mud?
Oh my god.
All right, let's speaking.
We were speaking a bit ago about new things that you're so open to doing new things and trying new things. And one of the new things you're doing, you I heard you are you've optioned a book and you're you have a production cut in you're, Yes, amazing.
Yes, we've optioned this book called a Shoe Story. And you know, my publicist brought it to me. Actually, he had taken a couple of years off during COVID and worked for an actor's production company, so he came out of publicity and his job was to option books. So he came to me with this. He goes, I love this book. I think it'd be so fun for you. Why don't we do it? And I was like, okay again, why not?
Yeah, yeah, Yes, Shoes is a really darling story.
I really connected to it, and I thought, let's see where it goes. Like I don't know what's going to happen. You know, we have to write it, we have to do everything and sell it. But I think it's an interesting new thing and I love for you.
I think it's a natural for you, Lisa, and I just encourage you and support you to go.
Into that development.
We've been dabbling in that for a few years, have you It never ends but it's a long process.
But you're made for that, you're made for producing, and well we're seeing I don't know.
Hang in there.
No, I think it's true. You have all the elements. You'd be great at it. But here's what I think. So, if it's your movie and you're the star and you're the producer, i'd like you to make Harry audition.
Yeah, and I will be the star star. I would take a different role. The star is much younger. We have to go with a young a young one for that. But I do think Harry will audition.
It's time he worked for his you know his good.
He's just handed it all.
I'll just throw my head. And if you need a director, I have directed a lifetime movie and I shadowed a show for as and I love it.
Do you love directing?
Yeah? I love it.
It's a ton of work, but it's it's kind of like you can show up looking like whatever, and then it's more about your head and your creativity and your logic and decision making that you have to show up with every day, not like just how you look and go learn your lines.
Well, I don't want that pressure.
Yeah, No, you should have someone it's a lot, especially if you're doing everything. But at any rate, I just feel like you should definitely go give that a shot, good.
To see where it goes. Do you have any.
Crazy everyone wants to know, any behind the scenes stories any?
I have one, okay, one that always pops up. So while I was working with Heather, we were Nemesis Nemesis. Yeah, so you're a nemeside and I'll never forget. I don't know why. And you know, we we had a great time working together. She was so I learned so much from Heather because she really set the tone, Yes, really set the tone, and I'd never done a nighttime series like that. She was just so lovely and so personable and so giving and always prepared, and she just ran
that set really beautifully. She didn't she I really learned from her. It was a great, great deal, funny and funny and humble, all of it. Like, she was amazing. So at one point I'll never forget, the tabloids came out with this story that I was so jealous of Heather and so like freaked out by her that one day she was getting out of her car and she somehow maneuvered to the back of the car and her door was open, and I took my car and I rammed her door off of her car, and I was
like what and they printed it. I was like, where do they come up like that story? So that's the one there.
So that wasn't true.
It was not true. It was not true. And then another time, I'll never forget when she was pregnant and you know it was physical by this point. You know, she's always hitting me. I'm like slapping. I saw that so funny so many times. I'll never forget this. They cut a hole in the floor because she had to do some scene where she needed to be hit and lie down, and I believe they were hiding her pregnancy on the show, so she had to lie on the floor.
With her big belly in the cutout.
Oh my god, what do we do for a living.
Problem solver? I'll never forget that. And we just laughed about it, like you just did what you were told.
To do on that show. You really lucked out because you got to work with Heather and Jack, right, they were both so incredibly funny and funny.
I mean Jack at first, Okay, first Jack, I was like, I'm not so sure about you really yes, because I'll never forget. It was probably double ups, doing two different shows for two different you know, whatevers. And he was directing me.
Oh, and he wasn't directing the episode, and no, he's directing me, yeah.
With him, And okay, did you have that too?
No, I just I could see that that's what you were.
Okay, So he's directing me in my scenes, and I'm like, I'm not used to that, and I'm like, i don't like this. I'm not sure about this. I don't like it. So I'll never forget. We were in the trailer one day. I remember, I was always himself in the mirror, and he used to give him such.
A hard turn.
He was so narcissistic.
I mean, we all are.
He was just on a level that, you know, was boldly, boldly.
It's palpable.
I need to him he.
Was doing that too. But I'll never forget. We were in the trailer, the makeup trailer, and he had said something to me that just really rubbed me the wrong way. And I just turned around and I just barked at him. I said, don't you ever I don't ever want to see you direct me again. Don't you ever tell me what to do, and from that day on he loved me so much because I literally stood up to him. He was just testing me, you know, he was just poking me and testing my my will and how far
he could go with me. And the minute I snacked him down, he was so cool and so lovely.
Oh So it's hard for people out there who aren't actors, which is most of you. Probably it's the what we don't direct each other as actors. We together and the director tells us what to do, because you don't want to think that. You want to think your co star is in the scene with you, not watching you from outside judging what you're doing. It makes you feel very unsafe as an actor.
So I felt very unsife because he was outside judging what I was doing and then telling me what you do.
Nobody should be doing that, no thing, and I never had not a good thing.
Have your director tell you that. So when I basically stood up for myself and made a boundary, he so appreciated it and he was my best friend from then on.
As he likes to be teased, he likes it when you call him. Then I think he can relax when he knows he can play, trust you to take care of yourself, then he can relax and be fully and.
Then we had great scenes great after that.
Because you got to really play and you got to feel confident. Yes, it was a really interesting dynamic. Oh that's interesting, that's.
The chemistry changed. Yes, for the camera, for the audience.
Yes.
And then how did your character end? Did you often the sunset? Did you die?
Do you remember you stay pregnant?
No?
Because I was pregnant, and again, pregnant women on Melrose was not.
There's allowed to be pregnant as well.
Yeah, so it was like, okay, time to go, and I just I remember driving off into the sunset.
Was your character pregnant?
Yes? Oh oh yeah, they wrote that.
Do you remember whose baby it was?
No?
Well, the whole storyline was it was it Jack's or or Kyle's or Kyle's, Kyle or Michael.
Don't know.
You kept telling all of it.
Maybe that one day when you made out with everybody, So maybe we don't know, we don't. I don't remember. Someone would tell there you know.
It could be three guys and Lisa's baby.
I mean it really could.
I feel like it was Michael's like as a twist, I feel like.
It was too. But Michael, after thirty years, I can't remember. I need to go back and look it up. But I do believe I left pregnant. I don't think they hid it. I don't think we hit it.
You think you left showing pregnant showing okay, I think so.
Well.
You were in such skimpy, like you're always in a teeny little dress tight.
I never saw anything, So I don't know.
I know I have to, I have to go back and look. I don't know.
So then, when was the last time you actually watched an episode of Melos?
It was my help show.
It's been thirty years.
Yeah, I mean I expected to remember these crazy turns.
Of men, and there were so many crazy things that Taylor did that I can't remember. I just did it, you know.
Yeah, And it changes week to week. It's not like a long jen out storyline. You're going to go through lots of storylines in just a few weeks, and.
It's very hard to remember, especially when you're doing two episodes.
Because Aaron wanted syndication, and the more we would shoot every year, the more money they'd get we all get. As Chip pointed out to us when we had Chip, right, Chip, and Chip was like, well we all got more of that week, right.
We don't we get like thirty three episodes or something. It was a huge number. That is benheard of.
It's insane.
I'd like that about now. I mean now that you how we really were lucky, really were lucky.
Yeah, so what did you do when you drove off into the sunset? Then you went and had you were pregnant, so you were having had Delilah your first yes at that point.
And then then I had postpardon for fifteen months, for fifteen months, and then I went back to work. I got I think I got a Lifetime movie. I think that's the first thing I did. I think it was Another Woman's Husband with Gaelo Grady. I went back and did that.
That was a great one. I remember that.
I believe it was that it was like a swimming one. Yeah, that was not a swim or something.
That's when Lifetime movie, I mean life they're still good, but remember they were like events. They were event they'd have. There would be billboards on sunset for Lifetime movie. Remember, everybody would watch them.
And the title was another a Woman's Husband, Another Woman's Husband. Because I did one titled The Other Woman. Oh I'm sure, I mean was it the same story?
Similar?
Probably similar?
We're all similar title, guys, it's like the same.
Yeah, A fair writers for lifetime, all these things so crazy.
And then I did one with Harry about a sex addict.
I remember that sex Lies and Obsession.
Oh yeah, And I was five months pregnant with Amelia while I shot that. When we shot that in Toronto in the winter.
And that was before anybody who was talking about sex addiction. I remember when what a big risk.
That was the deal, you know one I talked about it and of course it was a true story. And Harry played the sex addict beautiful, very.
Well.
He played the one of the first gay characters in love. So he has that as DNA. He likes to break the glass ceiling when it comes to that, he'll take a risk.
Absolutely, did it feel scary at the time.
It It was weird because we'd never really heard about it, you know, sex addiction was not something that anybody really talked about, so it was really and it was so interesting that I was actually pregnant while we were shooting it. It was again always a weird, yeah, setup.
So documentary, but also you're so vulnerable and you're pregnant.
Yeah, that was hard to film.
It was hard, and we hid the pregnancy.
Wow.
Yeah, so I had big coats and again, I think it's really when I see pregnant women working now, it's just like you are so vulnerable in that time.
Yeah.
So do you remember we crossed paths when I was pregnant. We were both doing I think it was a benefit theater thing. Penny Marshall was directing the vagina monologue.
Yes, I actually do.
Remember, and we were both doing that and.
Did you guys do it together?
I was we were all like assigned different monologues, we were doing different pieces.
Yes, I vaguely remember sitting there on stools reading it.
And I was pregnant in rehearsals in the theater and Penny, God bless her, she was smoking like a chimney.
And I was not.
I actually didn't stay and finish it because I was.
That's why I don't remember.
In the middle. It was a tough pregnancy and it was just smook and all that stuff.
I didn't say, but that was a trip that she Penny Marshall, Yeah, she was a trip. Yeah, it's crazy and here we are. We're still here, and yes, isn't.
That so sweet? I know, it's really such a joy to see you. I was so excited in the lot and it's been so much fun to talk to you.
You're a delightly Si Well, gosh, so are you and Smith and all of you. You guys are so I like you back then too. You know, it's not like it's not like, oh, I don't really want to go do this because I didn't really get along with them. Those were so great.
I mean, we had a great time out here so much.
When you want a guest on your podcast, you can get all three of the but I will.
Well, you know, sooner or later, we've got to have some guests. I think everyone's going to get tired of us.
You know.
I did La Law with Harry.
Well MILLI did. He said to talk about that. He brought that up today, he said, yeah, she played.
He and I have a lot of stories for off camera, away from the.
Where is the fun in that? Yes, this isn't a camera, it's the podcast, that's right.
You will come on and now this idea.
We'll talk a lot before and.
Then we'll go and you can figure out what you want to say, yes, yes, yes yes, Well thanks girls, thank you, likewise all of you. Thank you, you too, Kay