Still the Place with Laura Layton, Courtney thorn Smith.
And Daphne's Aniga an iHeartRadio podcast.
So before you came in, Daphny, I was telling Laura.
So my friend Shalen who called me to say, have you ever thought of doing a rewatch podcast? Which led me to call you guys, which led to us being here, is visiting me right now with his wife and four kids. And I was telling Laura that his wife used to be my son's nanny. And at the time, she was my son's nanny from two and a half to four and a half and we adored her.
My son adored her. We loved her so much.
She met this nice boy at church and he proposed that was great, but then he got a job out of town.
Then he was dead to me, and I was so mad.
I was so much and my son was heartbroke and I was so devastated.
And I'm having this moment.
It's a lot like actually what we talked about with Vanessa Cheers on the podcast about how difficult times can turn around so beautifully. And I feel like God took her away and it was so awful, but then brought it back a thousand fold because now I've got her and Shalen and her sister and their four kids in my house, and it's literally like they took her away and then multiplied the love and then brought her back, and.
It's been so sweet and moving, right.
I think I wish I'd known we were going to do a different episode. I wish I could have brought him in to meet you guys today because it would have been so much fun because he's a big Melros Place fan.
I would like to have money, so.
Well, you're still dreaming about you.
He's you know what it was.
I was mad at them for a minute because I missed Bethany, but very quickly, like I just absolutely fall in love with them. And now they come and stay, and every time their stay gets longer and longer and longer and keeps threat and he keeps going, yeah, i'd be careful, we'll move in. I'm like, you think that's a threat, but I would love it, so.
I have to want to move in, please do There's plenty of episodes that we have to do, so we should be here for a while. There's a plenty of opportunity. He could end up in here at some point.
Absolutely, Yeah, different people, and I think he should definitely be one.
You can, like, you know, ask him about the dream and if we're.
Meeting the dream, that he has his version. But we do appreciate people.
And also the fact that we responded to it, and you know that Laura and I had already been thinking about it but had been let that go for a while because of other sort of logistical things and then when you just out of the blue called with this inspiration. See, I think that's exciting when we when things happened for better.
Or for worse, it's how we react to it. And it's helped me make out of it.
And Courtney, you know that did happen where he was taken away, Your nanny was taken away and you were just and I know things have happened to you and things have happened to me, and things seem to be like and you know, kudos to you, just like kudos to Vanessa and to all of us. How we see the positive when it finally in whatever time it takes, it comes around.
Yeah, Well it's a great lesson, right And I can look at my life, how many times that this is objectively bad and it turns out for my good countless time. I think I would just sort of relax into it and go, I know this is going to turn out for my good, but fear comes in. But that's the spiritual work, right The spiritual work is to try to get to the place where you go, I'm not going to have an opinion about this, this is happening. I trust that it will turn out for the best. That's
the work and that's the challenge. But this was such a huge example of that in your life because I love them so much, and it would have been so different. Had she stayed, probably she would have Jack would have gotten older, she would have left them like that was lovely, thank you. But instead it's this beautiful relationship. My house is still little kids.
The sweetest thing.
That's great.
That's great, that's awesome.
All right.
My giant just really quickly. So my son now is sixteen and six feet tall. So to watch him play with her little kids, she and I can't stop crying.
YEA, so sweet, No, we both keeping.
Are you seeing this are It's so sweet how these things come back around.
We never would have known. It's the sweetest thing. Anyway, that's great.
On the show, all right, So speaking of trust, you guys are gonna trust me today because I said I wanted to do the rundown. It's usually for a job and you know, but I really wanted to try it, try it, mix things up, and so I watched it twice this morning.
Look at you doing your homework.
I can press.
Well, I'm just digging this show now because all of these years later, I get to relax and see things just as an audience, like we've talked about. And one thing I noticed about this episode, which is called I Promise Broken, is that, you know how we talked about before, Like usually there's a storyline like A stories maybe more serious and B stories less serious, like they've been.
Doing that balance.
I don't know about you, guys, but I felt in this one there was no light story. I felt like that was they were all adulting in this episode, like I've never lots happened.
Yep, you know they were dealing with really make.
Yeah, well, you know there's the banter with Alison and Billy constantly, but there was serious issues.
Oh thank god.
I was like, because I'm.
Thinking of the storyline, I'm thinking, well, I did think I played it a little angry, but I was like, oh, I didn't really gill that.
Do well, let me say everyone was adult thing. And then Billy was doing his best a lot.
Billy was acknowledging his immaturity.
I just kept thinking how adorable he was. We did, we went back. We haven't had a shirtless scene for a while, and he came out for no apparent reason without a shirt.
And I was like, oh that, thank you for that.
That was lovely. Yeah, that was nice.
He will never not be Billy. And then our guest stars. So this was written by Darren Starr and Chuck Pratt.
Charles Pratt.
Charles I realized, I remembered wrote my first movie ever, a horror movie for Paramount Initiation. So he was a writer on that. But then you know, of course he went on to do Desperate House with so Doug and Marsha Doug and Marsha and yeah, so anyway, those are the two men who wrote it, and the director was Nancy Malone and our favorite child.
It's funny because before so we have little cameras on as well, we're doing the podcast. We were all adjusting our cameras up and she was the one who taught me that. I remember her sitting me down and saying okay, showing me the camera and going okay, this is if you're looking down at the camera. This is if you're looking up at the camera. And she was showing me the difference, and that's where I learned it. That's so funny, right,
So it's things that we just yes. And then there are some guest stars in.
Here is Marcia Cross. So Marcia Cross, here we are in episode eleven and she made an appearance. I thought she wasn't coming until later.
In coming she Remember when we talked to Tom and he said that they purposely played it with a little bit of a flirtation to sort of plant the seed and I will get to it. But I thought she came in with so much confidence. I thought, Wow, she really took the scene she was on like that. That's impressive.
Jane and Michael are. We're in the apartment at night. It's the whole group. Remember those group scenes we were talking about. So they're all watching home movies and Jane and Michael's apartment and they're watching childhood videos and it's Jane as a baby.
So of course the whole group knows.
That she's pregnant and they are all these baby coming vibes. There's a crib setup. We saw that happening before. Everyone in the building has now gathered to watch these childhood videos, which I thought it was.
I literally love the group now.
I like when we're all together of it.
And it's interesting too because we've had so many of our castmates come in and sit down with us, so I feel extra super yummy warm, like when I saw Vanessa's like, oh Vanessa's we just reconnected with her.
It's so sweet.
That's a been Laura and I were talking about before we started, how much fun this has turned out to be, right, Like how much I genuinely look forward to getting to sit and hang out with you guys. And with the castmates coming into that's been such a lovely surprise all of us. We stayed sort of connected, but really I feel so current with everybody now.
That's been such a great little benefit.
And that's particular scene just so cute because it was like a full people pile gathered to watch her childhood videos, and like the ancient film camera that was really and stuff and and like Matt's character going, how much longer is this? But it was still like they all showed up for it, and corn I feel like, yeah, it was like because Alison had the popcorn maker that she was carrying back to apartment. Did you notice that it didn't.
The air popper air oh whatever, not quite the airpo I think.
It was like my eighties. I loved it.
I didn't bring popcorn. I brought the pop.
Right because well, everybody is like a poplug to watch, you know, James hilarious.
So it stops right in the middle of it, and they're like, they don't know what happened, but the movie just stopped, and he sends everyone home.
Michael sends everyone home.
For you younger viewers, that's because film used to be actual film and it would be spliced and if it fell apart, you had to be able to tape it back together.
The kids are like, what.
Movie over? And when it comes to an end, we've heard of something in and cut off. It's digital.
It's on YouTube or your next video. No, that's not how it worked.
And they don't know the sex of the baby.
So we're at Alison and Billy's apartment and we walk they go into the apartment after the little movie thing, and Alice is like God, it smells in here that guys smell and socks and T shirts. And you know, if anyone listening has ever had a room maader housemaid or an apartment made of a guy, they can totally relate. They know their stuff everywhere. They're just not as neat as most people.
Especially one time when Jack was playing basketball and we brought a whole bunch of his friends over after practice and they were all playing video games in his room and I walked in and now we're later like, whoa going to practice? Didn't shower, all sat together in a room. I was like that at thirteen year old boys together after practice, you've had god.
I have a jacket and you're referring to your Jack, but let's have giant and but it was.
It's very intense. So I was like, oh, I know what she's talking about. I know, how do they not smell it?
Or when you like have to pick somebody up from practice and you you end up picking three or four of.
Absolutely, like you just casually roll down the windows by something.
Because you don't want to shame them, but boy do they stink.
They also teenage boys don't care, right, Like they laugh at their socks.
Right.
But this is, by the way, when Alison is carrying the popcorn popper when they entered the apartment, did you not notice it? Because they returned from the film watching and she's carrying the popcorn popper and she goes, WHOA, I was.
Looking at my dress.
I wasn't a fan of the dress.
That I love. Courtney notices we're like often on like we're watching.
Oh just wait, I'm going to go off on an outfit later in the show. Like part of it is I know now what looks good on me. I would never wear that neckline, that cut on me. I would never wear that now.
So I'm like, it's all right.
I wish you young Courtney, Alison, I know, and Courtney have come a long way. Allison somewhere is not wearing that dress.
I promise you.
But let's get real, guys.
They're not real people, their characters and Alison had no choice because the costumers were always throwing freaking jewelry on us. No matter, you're wearing T shirt and shorts, and it's like, let's throw on some jewelry.
Ever, you just have to have a choker or some kind of Sidney wore plenty of things that Laura would not have worn it, So.
I know, I mean that's that was a character, But I do think that I wasn't the only one that was when we got a new costumer. When after thirteen, somebody in an office was saying, that dress on Courtney, that's not good.
Sorry. So you know what I did think about this episode.
I thought, all the wardrobe you didn't like yours because you had to wear it, But just as an audience member, I thought it alloked so great, true to nineties, like quirky and weird at times, but I just thought everyone looked you know, you start to see the suits.
And well, look, it may be self consciousness because I too thought everyone else looked great.
I think there might be a little bit of that. You're watching yourself differently than you're watching the thing. And we are blessed with objectivity right now.
For all my spiritual talk, apparently the ego is still alive and running.
But here's in this scene also, like besides her commenting on the place being like dirty and smelly, it sort of turns into an argument about So that was sort of interesting. I thought that was perfect how the scene goes.
I always get an argument when how many times, I mean, I live with a husband and there that it doesn't change.
Really, I gotta.
Say, but the argument was not so like flum mixing. It was more like that it turned into a bet. Like how they were going to resolve it was to make it.
Yeah. I was waiting for them to kiss because it felt very Sam and Diane. It's like, I'm so mad at you, I'm gonna make you take me to dinner. I think, Wow, Alison's subtle way to play it cool.
There were a lot of those in this, so I thought that was an interesting way to get to the idea that like, are they trying to show the audience that there's a little bit of flirty underneath under Totally right? I mean that was totally You're going to have to take me to dinner.
Well, if he can't clean up, he says, I'm going to clean up, and he shortly after that does the laundry.
Which what an intimate thing to do, right, like something laundryad Washington thing to do.
The next morning, quickly we hear the shower running. You're you're in the bathroom and Billy comes out and says, has Hey, that's what I'm going to do the laundry because.
Because apparently we share a laundry basket.
And by the way, don't I don't know about you guys, but guys always need cookies and affirmation when they do, like anything.
I'm doing the laundry.
Here, look it, I'm putting the dish in the dish washing.
That's what. That's what definitely takes Wait a minute, So he's trying, he's trying really hard to prove that he does laundry or whatever.
He's like, so let me also do yours.
It's just let me clearly here you're taking a shower to tell you what I'm doing the laundry.
She never really said, okay, he gets.
No cookies until they're actually washed and then dried.
And then you know, in the writer's room, somebody made that point and they said, don't pull that thread because you need this for the next story point.
And it does say.
Here, I just circled and parentheses on the shower as a pink shower curtain with cats, and I circled that because that theme matches those teddy bears and toys I saw stuffed.
Animals on your thing.
And yet what we're going to see next in the laundry room is so different from Allison's toower curtain and the stuffed animals, which is we're in the laundry room and Billy and Jake, who I guess also is doing laundry that day in.
His jorts is like raw ham rough.
I'm wearing the same one.
I thank god I'm not wearing him the same scene. I think exact same shorts on in the next seat.
I think you borrowed his because you were still in the dryer.
You're like, you're sharing a laundry room with an apartment. Things get mixed up all the time, and you're just a'll wear these. I think they were the same ones, the same length, like halfway down. Okay, But there we are in the laundry room and Billy findes your lacy black bra that Alison a guest wears under all those.
Jorts and T shirts.
Yeah, and you know it was so hard to me, like that was my actual size then. My breasts are a lot smaller now, but there was I was a thirty four dy.
Don't you love middle adies?
Hormones knockers.
No, I had a reduction, but yes, but I always say hormones are good too. But they were so big, and I was so surprised that I let them say my actual size, Like that's a really intimate thing to have them say.
Well, I wonder if that was I wonder if it was even a consultation with you. It's just probably the script at the time, right, I mean, it was just scripted they did it. They probably didn't say, hey, what's your real size so we can make sure to get it accurately in the script. I bet they didn't ask.
Oh, I'm not sure they looked right.
I'm sure it was without permission. It was just didn't.
Feel intimate to me then, but watching I was like, oh, that feels so intimate to know that, right.
And then the boys just turn it into they're just like being like eleven year olds, Yeah, goofing around and like but.
It's really led by Billy, the most mature guy in the building, Like he's like, oh, this is still good, but yeah, getting to that point, I think what usually happens is they're like, just go to wardrobe, get one of Courtney's bras, and then they.
Just use that in the scene.
That's what happened, you know, they usually do that so and then they yeah, read it up.
I think it felt intimate because I was so self conscious about how big my breasts were, So I think that's why it felt so intimate to me.
I was like, well, that's a pretty intense thing to share.
Yeah, and this whole scene, your whole storyline was about that, about the memory glands, and it was.
I actually, I will get to the end. But I was wondering why Allison was getting so upset cause I don't remember the episode.
And at the end, I was like, Oh.
That's why, because I kept thinking about me, calm down yourself. I sort of I think, like, again, I keep correcting myself, but I would have found more layers now, Like I just sort of like started yelling and then just kept it after the whole thing.
In Allison's defense, I'm gonna say she walks in and finds them put Billy's put the bra on over his T shirt, and he's like, like just being first of all, it's your personal undergarments, and that he just sort of assumed that he could launder that. You didn't really give him permission for you walk in and you're in your robes. You're clearly like maybe like realizing that he's taking your laundry. And then he's being an eleven year old and acting like a dork with his with your bra on his body,
So of course you're mad. I'm sorry, Like I'm I'm going to defend Allison here. Yeah, Alison should be pissed that. Yeah, more sure mortified.
Yeah maybe because she's so young. I mean today I wouldn't care, but maybe because but.
I think you're trying about it.
Keep going.
It's not just that instea. Then he's staring at them. Then there's the magazine. You know, we'll get to that, and it's like it's a whole thing just out every scene.
Yeah, just the breach of like that's my personal stuff and you're like being such a dork, you know, like making fun and whatever and you caught him doing it. I'm going to defend Alison here.
Thank you.
You're welcome.
Anything to say about that dress in the first scene, I have to.
Go back and look at it. Yeah, so I'm probably going to defend it. I love that Allison lazy. If I saw anyone was cut her.
Some slot alf.
And now our next scene is in the hospital hallway and we have Michael and Kimberly are walking down and this is I think her first scene in this and this is where you're saying, like, there's this confidence, there's this pacing. She's very kind of like, you know, I'm here and really interested in him.
That's what I And I was blown away by her confidence, like as an actor, like she just came.
I'm like, no, wonder they had her back. She must belong here.
Because yeah, and it was real. It was the introduction to the character. But it was like she was assuming the familiarity that that character would already have, Like she she just she fit in at the hospital. She's an intern who's already been working with them, and she demonstrated that relationship with her level of comfortability and confidence. Yes that all of a sudden we're like, oh, this is a strong, beautiful co worker with Michael and they already
had this relationship. Like she established that immediately with you. I really did establish I think it comes from her.
Marshall is a theater background, and that's like you know all that backstory and stuff. It wasn't there was no tendency like you might have as a guest star.
Yeah, No, she really came in.
And also Thomas said, they talked about it, so they made that decision. I think they both really like to talk about scenes and how they work, so maybe they found that comfortability. But I thought it was a really impressive entrance.
Yeah, so coming in hot, here comes.
Comingly hot, and they're you know, and they're have this banter and this playfulness, and she's already teasing him a lot and saying that, you know, he can't talk about his feelings and all that, and tiding him already. It really annoyed me, like how she was. And then of course my annoyance is warranted by the end where we get to that part too. But it's like, but anyway, I agree with she made herself right a home, that's
for sure, and with Michael. So they're walking down the hallway and then Michael asked to go see the ultrasound. Jane has this ultrasound and doctor Levin who says, no, you can't. You got to do we have this other thing that we have to do.
And sure you can't got an operation.
So it was a conflict.
At the same time, Jane and Matt are coming down the hallway the next scene because they're going to the ultrasound.
Of course Matt's there.
He's like the best friend and very reliable, where Michael isn't.
But he's coming down.
Takes her there, and I think they're expecting Michael to still be in the Alto Sound with his wife.
Until that was just giving her a ride, yeah, which he'd offered in that film scene. I said, if you need to ride tomorrow. Yeah, So they guess they only have one car.
That's when Michael surprises him.
You know, I can't go, So but don't go anywhere, Matt, because you can go and be in there, and you brought the video so we can see the recording and we'll watch it together. I'm really sorry. And you just see Jane's face and she's so disappointed again. And of course now that we've had them on, you know, as guests, she played that part a lot like oh, understanding and kind of put up with stuff and just things, you know, I remember her saying that.
And kind of just I don't know if she said that.
She wasn't crazy about it, but that's how they wrote her, and she just had to play it.
You know, disappointed by accepting him to do it. He was good.
She's probably honestly what every wife of an intern feels, right, because what are you going to do?
You can't do it's not like you can change it. You have to go through this.
Right, right. So we're still in the hospital and this is the ultra sound happening, and Matt is in there. She's coming in and they're getting ready and they mistake him,
of course for the dad, but he's not. But then the doctor comes in, so this ultrasound is set up, the nurses in there, the doctor starts doing the ultrasound and they're all happy, and then something happens in the scene, which is they're doing the ultrasound and she's like yeah, yeah, and then it's like there's a quiet in the room. And then he says, freeze it there, and you know, he says to Matt, can we just have a second?
Can you step out? So Matt steps.
Out and give he gives the harble news that there's no heartbeat. So that's like just devastating.
They handle it beautifully in the script, and again I'm really I'm impressed with how they handle these things. Somebody in the room had been through it, all the expectations, everything was set up, they're all excited, and then there's that moment where there's no heartbeat and it's just you know, because it used to be and I think we're much better about this now. It used to be this idea of oh well, it was only so many weeks, but
it's not. It's the planning, it's the expectation, it's the story you've told yourself.
You have this idea of what's going to happen, and then it's gone, Yeah, so devastating. She played it beautifully.
Yeah, I thought there was some interesting and we haven't gotten to them yet. Some interesting moments too, where as much as you know, Josie was twenty one years old at the time and having to play this moment of loss that right that it was just a lot too shoulder that story. And then there was a part of the character that throughout the episode she's apologizing and trying
to make things better for other people. I thought was sort of an interesting color because, yeah, it comes like that she's as devastated as she is, she's also having to care about how other people are going to receive this news and whatever, and I just thought that was an interesting color.
I complain about social media, but I think that's the thing where we've gotten better, where women are really talking about this is a devastating loss. Like, don't say it's only anything right, right, this is a devastating loss. And I think that women now can claim it more and mourn it and really allow themselves to be sad and yeah, get back on the horse. It's like, well, you're mourning something real.
And usually the show, being thirty years ago, is things that are archaic and old fashioned, and look where we are today.
So that's what I mean.
They're all adulting. These are big issues of these writers were.
Like, you know what, enough of figuring out if I should get rid of my car that's your.
Bird or whatever.
Anyway, so we're going to move on.
We are now back with Alison and Billy in the apartment and they have an argument about the.
Bra and he's like, this has got to be a joke.
You're taking this too seriously, and she just says, you're like a pervert, and he's, well, you're a prude.
I was just playing with the bra. I was just a joke.
And then she said maybe this is a good reminder, like why.
We're just we're just roommates, you know, we're just because basically you're a kid and you're annoying, and also.
I'm trying to trick you into dinner.
All yeah, I don't want to go to dinner. But Alison's now put a lock on her door. The key news here is that she decided to lock the door a big dead bold in fact, not just like a little a big dead bowl.
Yep. So Alison really thought what you thought that was a violation and now there's a lock.
Yep.
No, I didn't think that. Laura's on Alison's side. I'm completely anti. You're pro Allison. I'm completely anti Alison. My personality is just going to split apart apart today.
It remains a fact that she put a lock on the door and said stay out.
Which apparently you think is a great idea. I think it's an over it.
I'm just saying it's a fact.
So we're back in the hospital and this is during the day and Matt and Michael are sitting there waiting for Jane, and the doctor comes out to say that the procedure is done and tells him that, you know, a miscarriage is nature's way of taking care of something that's not right.
No, it didn't it look to you?
I was watching this thinking I felt like Thomas was playing it like he hadn't heard this news. I felt like he was playing this was the first time he'd heard it. Did you feel that?
I think I was wondering.
I can see why.
Yeah, I think he was like having his stunned sort of reaction in this scene, like he was staring off into spae whatever. Isn't this the one where he was Wasn't he just kind of looking.
At the doctor's telling him But someone would have said, your wife is going into surgery because there was no hard someone would have told him.
Because they're waiting. Yeah, I think he was playing more stunned.
But I'd see why you'd say that, because it kind of was a little could have been.
They were clearly waiting for her to come out of the procedure, but he was acting sort of like just stunned and numb about it. Yeah, And I think that rolls into him not feeling his feelings or not saying his feelings.
Right, yes, right, And she's wheeled by and she says, I I'm sorry heartbreaking.
So heart breaking, which really he's like, why isn't he saying I'm so sorry.
Like, I'm sure that was hard for him to you would want to say, O sweetheart, of course.
There's nothing like you wanted to say something.
But I think this is him, like you said, not being to he's not connected to his feelings, because yeah, he.
Did kind of just go I don't say that.
Yeah, that's all he could do, you know what I mean, because.
There were no written lines and as we know, you can't say so he.
Just so.
Then we're in the courtyard and they're coming home. The group is all gathered again.
I like our group.
They're there for support.
When Jane and Michael come home, they they're walking.
Really important support. Blah blah blah. But can we talk about Alison's outfit for a second.
Now, let's.
Sport I don't remember, so I have on.
Jake Schortz for some reason, shorts all right, and another horizontal stripe talk. Why would anyone ever wear horizontal striped anything?
And it seems to be my theme.
Remember the carnival jacket, And then I've got the horizontal striped and I've got the I.
Actually like the carnival jacket.
It might look good on you, it's not a good look on me.
Oh, my word, but you, I thought, God, she must be I didn't notice any and you were always taking care of yourself because not a lot of people can get away with including me.
It didn't thought I didn't notice it. So I'm defending Alison and the same thing. I guess I'm defending because like fictional care yourself a break, Laura's gonna be like, you know, I prefer Alison to Courtney. I didn't be kind. I'm sure. I'm sure Alison looked adorable.
Okay, Courney, I have a question, though, why do I hate myself?
Do you remember?
No? Do you remember saying were we offered choices?
Because I know some costumers always give you choices.
I remember Denise, give where whichever you're more comfortable, Like maybe there was another T shirt? Or or if there wasn't, could you have said I don't want to wear this.
I well, we were frustrated. That's why they replaced the costumer. Right, So I was not the only one who was frustrated. I look around other people like they did a better jump speaking up for themselves. Like Vanessa said she brought stuff from home. I was like, you can do that.
I think I.
Felt I didn't feel comfortable in what I was given to wear for the most part, and I sort of went, okay, I'll take that. But it was the lesser of two evils.
It wasn't. I wasn't like I can't wait to wear this right, you know, No.
I could see that for sure.
I always wanted to wear something like cool or even if you're just hanging around. That was like the customer that has to tell a story is like, you're just hanging around so here. This is in my mind, a striped T shirt and jeans cut off jeans halfway down the thigh are the hanging around outfit. But I always wanted to be like, why can't you be Joe you later hanging around something cooler and prettier, like I.
Don't care about the story he always does.
Why can't I hang on in an evening gown like I always sweat?
For David? Are you always in sweats at home?
I always? I call it loungewear I do like I do like lounge wear.
I love lounge sweats.
I know that's what I means, sweats loungewear.
Then I put it on a dress to go out.
Then immediately when I get home I put on you know that. I obviously the pandemic was awful for everything in every way except companies really up their loungewear did right, And.
I'm still wearing I'm still looking for their loungewear lounge weear.
Yes.
Here we are with Jane and Michael in the apartment, and the group kind of follows in and everyone comes.
Jane invites everybody in, come on in.
It's kind of out of her body at this time, come on out.
Every Maybe she intuitively doesn't trust him like I want, you know, like when you don't want to be our own one person, you just bring everyone. Well.
I think it connects to what we were talking about it she's taking care of everybody else instead I need to.
Go face instead of saying that come on in. Everybody went in.
Let me make you something to eat, let me make you all comfortable.
But also she needs that comfort. She needed it too, I think, I mean, I mean, jeez, we're loving the group. They must have loved each other in the show the character yeah maybe you know so. Rhonda is telling Jane that she knows it's happened to lots of people, including her mom, and then Alison agrees, and she says again, someone else says, this is the way the body's way of taking care of something that isn't right, and then Jane says, why is everyone always saying that because the
doctor said something like that too. But and then we have Jake follows Michael into the kitchen and says, you need to talk another thing of trying to get him to express himself, and he's like, no, I just need to take care of Jane.
I liked that it was Jake too. Yeah, right, I thought that was an interesting choice.
And it's also like all the things that the girls are trying to say to comfort Jane, those are all true. It's just there's nothing right to say. There is nothing that can ever feel like the right thing to say, both for the person who's you know, searching for something to say, and then for the person who's mourning. There's just not a perfect thing to say, and it just isn't going to feel right no matter what. And I just I felt like that was happening in that scene.
You know, she's like, why does everybody say that? And it's like, well, it's not not true, but it's also like not comforting, you know, like there's just not a right thing to say. And so I thought that was depicted very well.
Maybe it's kind of like if when somebody's parent dies, you know, and people say, well, that's life.
You know, she lived alone.
It's like that's just life, Like that's just.
Science, and like that's.
Just and it's kind of like that may be true, but it's not very comfortings.
Just the only thing in that situation really helped, just saying I'm so sorry, yeah, and just that I'm here. Letting that be it, right, I'm sorry, and the thing but you know, as we get older, most of us have lost a parent, and it's very different when you're not younger trying when you go, i'm so sorry, I know what that is. I'm here if you need me, right,
that's all we really can offer. And just to say, same with if you've been through a miscarriage, you just say, oh, sweetie, I'm so sorry, I know that pain.
I'm here. Yeah.
That I think is helpful, but to discount it. We're trying to make it okay, but like you said, you can't. Only time comes close to making it okay. Yeah, makes it more okay.
Yeah.
And I think also just to finish on that one thought. It's enough that people around you, like you just don't want to be there alone. It's enough that people are just there, like they don't have to be perfect when there's a grief or something horrible happens to someone. The rest of us don't have to be perfect and how to know how to do it, but we're there, And I think, like that is the power of that apartment building. Oh, that's so sweet to this point, up to you know, a.
Few episodes, we're gonna that's all gonna change. We're gonna wish they.
All lived alone. Somebody's gonna try to blow the place up.
But all right, So then when everyone leaves, it is Jane in bed, and Jane and Michael are alone in their apartment building, and he's in the bathroom staring at himself and the water's running. Jane's in bed and calls for him to come in, and she comes in and share.
Deesn't he say to Jake and that other scene, it's not about me, right, like gaving time for my feelings sort of, Yeah, I got to take.
Care of her, got to take care of exactly.
So he kind of is, I think in Survival mode, you know what I mean, Like, he comes in, he's we see him for a brief moment in the bathroom shower what's really going on, which is things are not okay, he is not okay. But then he goes into take care mode and he comes in and he scoops her up and takes her into his arms, lying down the bed, and she lays down on his chest and says how she feels, and he's kind of just there doing his role.
So you the writing's really good.
You know, there's real depth to this motim He used to know that, you know, which is really cool because it's just on the surface he's doing that, and it's important. It's not the whole of what's going on with him, which we will find out. And again, this is a very vulnerable, mature adulting thing that they're doing. I've never seen these two. This is profound what they're dealing with
in that moment. It's just another vulnerable moment that I was like, Wow, these people are being forced to grow up, which I think is what the twenties are about, which is what Darren wanted the show to be about, not just what's my next job? But you do have to go from when you're in college, you have other problems. When you're in your thirties, you have other problems. First happened in the twenties and stuff. You know. Billy comes in shirtless. Alison's looking out the window. She's also having
a thoughtful moment of what's going on. And this is very like a soft moment we start out. Remember I was saying about like scenes, they start out one energy and then it ends in another. This is kind of soft. She's melancholi. She's being thoughtful, and she confesses that she was thinking about Jane and that it's a death loss. And Billy says that it makes their fight seem like no big deal and that they both overreacted, and Allison said, no,
I didn't overreact. You you overreacted. And you're also staring at my chest.
So he's like, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not.
I don't do that, and Allison says, you know, I don't think this roommate experiment is working. And then he says a lot of people live plutonically, men and women all over the world, and she's like, yeah, but they're mature. She's basically still clocking him on his immaturity. Yeah, yes at the end and just saying is which is not a bad choice.
As the show goes on, we find out why I was like, man, Allison, chill pill, Yeah.
What do you say about Alison? I think she was she had a little sensitivity and she's like, wait, you're you're looking at my chest, you know, And and in a way that maybe came more from her security than I'm talking about Allison's insecurity, then from Billy actually, and then it just caused this thing like now he can't not look at her chest and she's like what you know? So it did come from a place of insecurity.
But we are at the point in the episode where these people are just starting to feel what they're really feeling. So you haven't said what it's all about yet, Michael hasn't said what it's all about yet. His vulnerability your cause of your testiness. You're just being in the feelings right now.
So but also I think it's the intensity to you because in the beginning, obviously Allison's opening up some flirtation, like we're buying each other dinner.
She's setting this up.
So then when he disappoints her, he disappoints her double because she's starting to think of him as a romantic partner, whether she's willing to admit it to herself or not. So when this falls apart, she's really mad, like maybe it's not working. It's the disappointment of maybe you're not my guy. Yeah, so I think that was happening too.
Yeah, for sure, I agree.
But meanwhile, in real life.
We were like, rabbits, you're really annoying me.
Acting there to get to lay hands off.
Very funny.
And then while that's happening across the courtyard and Jane and Michael's apartment, Uh, it's in the morning and she's having a horrible nightmare that they have this new baby, and it's kind of shown as a dream and that kind of handheld camera thing. Yeah, they're holding this baby, and then of course she takes the blanket off the baby and there's nothing there.
That was devastating.
That was a scene where you really see the planning, Like you have fantasies when you when you want to have a baby and you find out you're pregnant, you're already planning and fantasizing.
You have all these ideas. So when you know if you lose the baby.
You lose all of that everything.
And the very next scene is when Michael is putting away the crib and the stuffed animals downstairs and the storage room, like the lock he puts on the fence, and it's just like all of that in his mind and his heart is looking forward to being a dad. It's just folded in the underneath the stairs, really abrupt and comes back up into the apartment and she's like, where'd you put it? He says, down in the storage room.
She says, I made some toast and there's coffee, and he's like, oh, yeah, I can't really stay.
I have to get to the hospital.
Once again. She's like, no, I'll be fine. He goes, I'll stay if you want. You know, I'm gonna be the good dad, the good husband. She's like, no, I'm fine. He called his mom. Are you going to call your mom? She says, I will tonight and tell her, and then he leaves. And then we're at the hospital and our
favorite little new guest star Kimberly and Michael. She says she's sorry about the baby, but she's also being kind of jokey, which I thought was inappropriate, calling him doctor Rushmore because you're not feeling your feelings.
And then he's like, I'm what do you mean.
You don't know what you're talking about, and he's but she's rushing, he's rushing through things. So she calls him doctor Rushmore, you know you're in denial, and he goes, I'm not in and you're supposed to be a surgeon. You're an in turn to be a surgeon, not a headshrink.
So basically, leave me alone.
A little foreshadowing there.
Yeah, she apologizes for being too joky as he leaves. So Billy and Allison are in their apartment again and Alison is getting out of the shower but she's in the shower and he yells through the door, I'm going to shoot hers. She says nothing, and he goes, look, I just want to tell you I'm sorry.
For being joking.
I was a class clown in high school and college, and it's just easier laughing getting a laughing than being yourself.
I thought he was so sweet in the scene. Yeah, I was like, Alison, go to shooters and he's adorable. He was so vulnerable and sweet. I really thought he did a great job.
With So you were having a moment Alison looking at herself after the shower in the mirror, which was now we're going to she's really starting to face what's really going on underneath, Yeah, underneath the testiness, which means also the sensitivity, but she expresses it in testiness, right, So she's having that totally exposed moment and really realizing what she went through. And Jane and Michael apartment night, so she's on the phone telling her mom what happened, and
he's eavesdropping. There's knock in the front door, opens it. There's a rope which ends up being a leash. They follow it and there's Sandy and Jake with a little puppy and Jingg with that huge, like fifty pound bag of dog food and they're all fitted.
And weren't you just like, no, never get someone an animal as a gift unless you've really discussed it.
But Jenny's get someone.
I know, I'm very happy. She was like yay puppy, and she seemed to be very happy.
Why weren't you just cringing?
Like completely reasonable for Michael to go, uh, we you know, no, no dogs allowed. And wait a minute.
But just as we go into the holiday season, just a reminder because the shelters are so full after the holidays unless you've all agreed no animals as gifts, they're not toys.
Good point. So after the holidays, people they returned on you made.
Yes, people get animals as gifts as will be fun, and then they're not prepared whatever they take them the shelters.
It's very sad before I get a dog, and I haven't gotten one five years now because I'm still thinking about it, because I kind of like the freedom. Dogs are a lot, as we find out, coming a lot of yummy, but at any rate, there they are those friends and everyone's just trying to make people feel better instead of dealing with what is really going on. Next scene is I'm waking up and there's a mess everywhere and the dog's torn and made a mess.
Turn like a crazy mess, like like one hundred teenagers came.
In total destruction. Yeah, everything everywhere. I just love again.
Moments like that make me think of what really went on on set and like the props person or like around you always love.
Fancy Malone is like no more. It was always more and more and then later later and fully and like sounded like crunch make it crunch you walk, make it just crunch underneath their feet, and then the dog lifts its leg at the very punctuating the scene Michael's medical bag. Okay, I was going to say I missed something that was his medical bag was his medical bag. And literally the dog like sort of looks at them.
Like if you yeah, But that's a train to act, right, that to train the dog to lift you.
Like, although is thinking about getting a dog.
Every rescue dog I've ever had, and I've had several, they peep for a little bit.
When they get home. You can train them out of it.
But just so you don't think, oh, no, they peede, they have to go back to the shelter.
They don't. It's trainable.
But also maybe don't leave them to run rampant in your living quarters even.
So, like you know, they'll look at you a couple of mp. They don't know.
They're not trying to be bad, they just don't know what they're doing. Yeah, but they're training.
I was a little shocked that they came out and they're like, I'm like, you left that dog out there or whatever create or no, like.
Doggy door or something. You were shocked.
Yeah, I know, you take your new dog to bed with you. What is wrong with these people? My my pug I first, when I first rescued her, she slept literally with her head in the crook of my neck. Of course pugs nurses A yeah, but I was like, worth it, worth it.
Yes, coming out in the morning, Jane takes the dog out on a leash and tries to get the dog to listen to a command. She tells it, sit it. The dog will not listen. Sandy comes up and says, well, you know, training takes time, and counterintuitively removes the leash, like, look at this, training takes time. Let me just take this leash off, And to no one's surprise except for and Sandy's, the dog runs off, so they chase the
dog out of the court. Then we go back to Billy's and Billy and Allison's apartment, where Jake is with Billy trying to pick the lock on Allison's room door at Billy's request, which seems like not a that idea. Now, okay, now we're on Alison's side here. Jake is telling Billy, you know, once, once we get it unlocked, there is no way to lock it again. Alison is gonna know you're in trouble, dude. This is this is going to turn into war. And yeah, he justifies it though this
already is war. And let me take back my tapes.
There's no way to lock it except to lock out and go out the window.
You could do that. Take your tape, lock the door, climb out the window. But he takes the tapes and he throws some trash, misses the trash and doesn't even leave it, like, leave it, Jake, don't pick it up. I'm trying to stick it to Alison.
Dress you war.
Yeah, real, sure, billy. She won't let me wear her freaking black bra.
Yeah.
So then we're back in the hospital where doctor Levin is rating Michael in front of all the other medical interns during rounds because he didn't follow routine procedure. He sort of mismedicated, and Michael is sort of defending himself, and doctor Levin sends Michael Holmes says, get your act together. So we're supposed to assume that Michael is still sort of not himself and he's not able to think clearly. It's affecting his job. So he storms into the hospital
staff room. Kimberly follows, Michael says, you know, I messed up. Doctor Levin was right. Kimberly encourages him, however, saying, you know everyone messes up. I do think you're really not letting yourself feel anything and using work not to deal with what has happened. Not a great idea. So he doesn't want to hear her psycho analyzation right rushing it she is, she's.
Yeah, they well, I get it now because I know who Krimbly turned out to be. She's not like the most empathetics, that'sitive normal person.
But his wife just had a.
Miscarriage, and she keeps pushing like, you're not doing this, You're not you know, feeling your feelings. It is your feelings is as trying the relationship. She's trying to force intimacy between those two. That's what she's trying.
But at that time she was just she may have been recurring in that character. So a lot of what they created here, what Thomas talked about, they worked on, is probably led to her character later, like the strength she comes in.
With this character. I think she brought that.
I think she brought that, and then they were like, hey, that works, let's bring that back.
But this relationship with them establishes it in front of the audience as something that's been going on for a while. They already this level of comfortability where she can say these things to him, and so she's like, you know, you need to feel your feelings and and then she goes on to say, you know, I care about you, and he snaps at her saying, yeah, you know some you're just some intern that doesn't have a life of your own, and you know, sort of go to hell man scene they have a little.
Fight like very million really, which is very intense that you wouldn't have with a normal coworker, right, which they already intense their relationship.
Yeah, but it's an interesting timing that, like, while his wife is losing a baby and they're having this really big thing happened in their marriage, he's also showing us that he's got this relationship at work.
Well, but I to his characters favor, I think he's not fanning the flames. He's not flirting back. He keeps pushing back and she keeps just keeps going at it. He's like, you know, you're not a shrink leving alone first time then a second time, Like I didn't see Michael. I've seen him before, and I'll see him again flirting and betraying his wife. I didn't think he was doing the betrayal, right, they worked together twenty hours a day, so that wasn't a problem.
But yeah, it's just interesting the timing awareness relations seeds. And then we see, yeah, it's just established right now that.
She's great boundaries with him.
Yes, yeah, no, she wants what she wants.
So then we cut back to the beach where Jane and Matt are taking a walk on the beach with the dog, who is now named Jimmy.
It went from Mutt, which is what Jake mean, right, dog, but Jimmy and then they'll end with another name.
And Jane reveals that it's really the first terrible thing that's happened to her, and she realizes that's exceptional, you know, And and Matt is really sympathetic in saying that nothing can really prepare you for loss, and it's good that she's expressing her feelings, and that's when Jane says she wishes Michael could express his feelings in the same way. At that point, Jane realizes, where's the dog? Yeah, And Jane and Matt run up the beach and I thought
I caught Matt going dog. Yeah yeah, dog dog. Well that should do it. That's a trained dog. Dog.
Yeah.
Funny, Yeah, it's funny.
I think that it was a dog thing. Yeah.
Yeah.
So then back at the courtyard, Billy has set up deck chairs outside the apartment and he is drinking and playing loud music with Jake from a boombox. When Alison comes.
Home time and a like so obnoxious, trying to prove up maturious by drinking and playing a boom box on the battery, and they're.
Sort of like, yeah, this is how I'm gonna show you. I'm sure, yeah, this is how what a child. And Alison is already like I'm over you, guys. Both She goes into.
Her play vest and I are very mad at you.
I'm sure was a very cute best I final notice may be the episode that that where they decided to switch consume.
There are a lot of vests in this Did you realize there's a ton of yes seasonal, Yes, I wanted best Yeah.
Yeah. So but Alison goes inside the apartment wearing her vest and comes immediately back out because she's realized that is broken into her room. You went into my room and he he says, yeah, well I needed the tapes that you borrowed and never returned, and Alison connects the dots realizes that Jake was the one to let her in, and then Jake says to Alison, Alison, you're blowing the out of proportion, which I thought nod. You've broken into her room. Wait a minute, now, can we defind Alison here?
She is not blowing out they broke into her room.
In this because usually Jake's aid like the forefront of everything, all this drama, you know, and he's like his big his big faux pas here is like, I think you're overreacting and you say, shut up, but he's probably Jake.
So then Allison goes to Billy's room and says, how would you like it if I went through your stuff? And she's going through his stuff. She's like, I wouldn't really mind, and then Allison says, oh yeah. And then there's Playboy magazines.
Which it's called I think Playmate because they couldn't Yeah.
Okay, Playmate, play Playboy like magazines, and Alison's oh, yeah, well look at you you're just you're so sexist and you're preoccupied with women's memories. Uh huh, because we can't say boobs.
I think I was trying to say more mature.
Yeah, all right, both of you, I guess, so titties.
And then I was the one in charge.
All of this is true. They can't say boobs or women's bazoomblans.
All the women. What did you say?
We can't say that, but we shouldn't anyway. Okay, moving on, So Alison upset and accuses Billy basically, let's get to the gist, is that you're sexist and you're preoccupied with this stuff. She's pissed.
She's pissed.
So back at Jane and Michael's apartment, Jane is hanging up the phone when Michael walks in. Jane is worried since he left the hospital hours ago, but he tells her that he's just been driving around thinking about stuff, and that's when Jane reveals to him that she lost the dog. Yeah, so Michael gets angry and Meane gets angry back, saying, wait a minute, you're you're you're angry about this dog and you're blaming me for losing this is like you're blaming me for losing the baby, and
you're more angry about me losing the dog. But I can feel that this is you think I'm yeah, I'm at fault.
Which actually that was a really clever way.
And I thought, what do you mean the writers with the writing with with.
The lose it and have that be the thing that triggers you, because he can get mad about that obviously, as we say, if it's hysterical, it's historical.
Obviously it's not.
About the thing he's talking about. And she picks up, Yeah, that was a smart to do it.
Yeah, she calls him out and he admits it. I blame you.
And then I thought he did that so well that they did that seem so well again doing all this grown up intense stuff, not kind of in a Melrose just dramatic situation. This is like real deep stuff. And I just thought Thomas did that really well. As Michael like he's like, yeah, yeah, that's a that's a huge honest vulnerability to admit I did I did that is what I'm thinking of me things because you had you wanted to get rid of our baby.
So then and we immediately go back to the hospital then where Michael is helping Kimberly uh with the vending machine and apologizes to her mm hmm interestingly, and Kimberly said she thought about what Michael had said and realizes that she doesn't have a life outside the hospital. He's not wrong, and but she says, I was hoping that we were developing a relationship and Jane is a lucky woman.
Can you imagine very forward?
Now, you guys all were talking about this turn started to happen when Heather, but I'm thinking, like, this is more than Melrose two point out Melrose around the corner.
So you think this was interesting, very telling, This is very so far.
They're like going, yeah, I only do I know you have a wife, but she just wants a baby, and I know you both are devastated, but I want a.
Thing with you and she just looks at him.
He's a very That seems to me like the yeah version of And regardless of the way they chose to play it, like leaning into that or not, like it was there in the writing, like with the words your wife is a lucky woman and if she doesn't know that, she's a fool, Like that's for and that's no one said she yea so or doing anything wrong. Yeah, Kimberly is putting that in his brain. So then back to
Billy's Billy and Allison in the apartment. They're trying to avoid each other, but they run into each other in the kitchen. Alison explains it. She feels violated and talking about it only makes it worse. Billy avoids eye contact, so he's he's like, She's like, you're not looking at me, and he's like, well, I'm afraid to.
I can't.
Even if I turn I might And so I'm trying. I'm trying to I'm trying to be sensitive and I'm trying not to look at you. But I don't want to be accused of this, and and Alison says, he you know, yeah, you know, there's no way you could have known that what was what was going on with me?
And then she ends up sharing that her mother had had a double misectomy after being treated for breast cancer when Alison was a child, and that it was it was really hard for the family, and she is very sensitive about any and all things that tie a woman's self esteem to her breasts and her body. And Alison realizes that she needs to talk about things more and oh, by the way, I knew, I always knew that you
were the class clown. But she reveals the reason for her sensitivity and her reactions in it, So.
She wion always be so testy, and I didn't notice until her just now talking about it, the parallels between Michael's storyline and Alison's storyline.
Obviously things go right over.
My head because you're focused on the dresses and the what I asked.
I may not have been looking at what was important. I will admit that.
Now it's nice we get this recaps so we can talk about it all together. Here's what really happened in the episode, not just your wardrobe, but.
It's I mean it does. Then you can look back and go, oh, that's why she was so upset. I still wish I'd found more layers in the scenes. However, you can understand why she had such reaction, especially when she's clearly developing feelings for this guy, and then she feels scared, like what if this were to happen to me? Like what if I were to lose my breasts? Would you still? It's so vulnerable for women. Yes, another big issue, like they were really still left and right?
Yeah, big stuff.
I do. Like how what you said these parallels again, that somebody is acting out, looking into what is a real issue. You in the mirror, him in the mirror, you know, triggered by the dog. But once you express it, there's such freedom and lightness and more love in the room. You know.
Yes, the acting out is so much more of a problem than the telling the truth.
Yeah, and it really opens the relationship, Jane.
Yeah, covering the secret takes so much more energy and effort and anger misplaced and anger.
So on that note, we cut to the beach where Michael comes up to Jane, who's, oh, well, after they've put up flyers. All the gang is sort of putting up flyers to try to find the lost dog. Maunt and Ronda and they're talking about poor Jane and what she's been through, and Sandy and Jane are also putting up flyers. Michael shows up to help actually, and Jane says, wait, why aren't you at the hospital. He says, well, actually, you know it's because of doctor Shaw, who encouraged me
to come. And Jane says, you know, I don't know him, Yeah, tell me about him. I don't know that dog.
I don't know him.
He says, well, actually it's her. Oh, Jane says, should I be jealous? And Michael says probably.
So I thought the way that he Thomas chose to play this was interesting, Yeah, because he said it in a way you know, you're writing this and you think we're gonna put down a you know, a little nugget there to be worried about that in the future. But he played it like, well, I'm a babe. Probably he made jealous. He didn't make it like I'm gonna say I don't know. He just said in a way that didn't seem ominous or something like yeah, you.
Don't know, but it wasn't It wasn't comforting. It wasn't like, of course not honey, like like right, But like, you know, that is just interesting that this is the way we're depicting the character at this point. Yeah, and the very same episode that they lose their baby, he's also dropping this moment of like something something could happen the episode.
But so my point to that insensitive writing is I think Thomas as being I don't know, he's a skilled actor, is to make the choice of being not aggressive and not insensitive, but like like benign.
Probably it was. It was a little provocative, but.
In my opinion, I really do think it was because if you write this down, probably on Meloe's place, would be like yeah, probably like Jake would have done, like, yeah, you know.
I don't know.
Maybe we were starting to make the turn earlier than we realized, Like maybe they're starting to turn to make it a little more salacious earlier than we thought.
So.
But he does come up to Jane later, hitting on the camaran, and he tries to sort of explain his feelings, and he tells Jane how sorry he is and that he really wanted the baby too. So they're back together with their feelings and their sadness together. Then, also on the beach run the mountain Sandy are directed by a surfer. Hey,
we think we saw a dog over there. They run down the beach, they meet a woman who's found the dog, who the dog had come up to her and her beach house, and the lady tells Jane and Michael what a great dog he is and I named him Barney, and Michael and Jane thank her, and before they walk away, taking Barney with them, they think, wait, well.
And she also met her clips and casually that she just lost her husband.
To keep the do I live alone and I didn't want to name the dog after my husband, but I still I live alone.
I'm so sad.
So Michael and Jane decide together, I think you're thinking what I'm thinking. We should leave this Barney dog with this lady, this nice lady. So they do, and she's thrilled, and Jane and Michael walk away on the beach together saying I love you, and they walk away into the beachy sunset. End of episode.
Yeah, that was sweet. I was just I thought the whole time was what about the dog? What about the dog? So the dog is everybody at home?
The dog is okay for you other dog lunatics with they're crazy dog ladies.
The dog is okay.
Is going to be good for a beach dog, like a dog as a good home. I can see you see the mountain Alibi like, all up and down the coast. These kinds of dogs you know.
That have yeah speech, the dog in real life, I'm sure it was very well trained. So on that note, I think we had an extra long chat session today and this was super fun. Always fun. We look forward to answering more fan questions next time, I still so excited.
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