Still the Place with Laura Layton, Courtney Thorn Smith.
And Daphne's Aniga and iHeartRadio podcast.
Hi guys, Hi, it's very exciting. We're very excited here today.
We're gathering the three of us with a special guest.
Very special guest because it is here. I'm so excited about this. During this morning, I've been giddy.
I have been waiting for this moment.
I pointed out when you walked and I go, this is the room in which you called in twice. That's probably trying to get on our show.
I've been pestering everyone.
You think you have an end because you're married to Laura, and yet you've been off working.
And he's been busy.
Yeah, it's so unpretening to you walked in. Like when I watch the show and I'm in scenes with you, you can see how happy I am to be in scenes with you, and I feel that way today. I'm so excited.
Oh that's also. I do remember laughing like uncontrollably in what is your Apartment? I mean, and we were supposed to be like it was part of the scene, but then it just went to the next level, like just giggling.
Like you know what I remember Doug about you, but that I.
Came on, you know, as we know, episode fifteen, like two episodes away, and Doug Savant came up to me and gave me a huge hug and was like welcome, welcome, and that you just wanted to just make me feel so welcome, and it really worked.
I really that was my memory of you.
I was so tired of all the other women, so I gretful, like you just showed up and I was, you know, I was transparent and you have.
Been that like so great to all of us and just to have on the I just remember that vibe on the set, like you were just always so warming.
You have a real heart energy.
Oh thank you so much. And I will say that, and then Courtney doesn't know I'm going to say this. I, in my very big important career, later did an episode of According to Jim Oh Yes, and I came on and if anyone who knows me, who knows me well, knows four cameras probably not my thing. I'm not really good with the joke. I was nervous, and Courtney was as gracious and lovely and open and welcoming and made me immediately part of that family, and which was a big deal.
Because you're surprised because I was such a bitch on.
Did you even act? Did you act like you knew?
Yeah?
I did, but.
There was no eye contact. But beyond eye contact, no, it was.
Just the ones. I mean, she didn't talk to me the rest of the.
Week, just the one hello. That's very friendly.
What did you play on?
According to Jim Oh, we did a very You have to go back to the Stone Age. Just when The Bachelor was a new show on ABC. So they were doing their Bachelor episode and I was the Bachelor and Kimberly Williams was going on this show. My god, you have any recollection of that?
I remember being in a limousine scene with you.
Yeah, I think was that a dream? I had no.
Wed a prom together? What's happening?
I don't give you a rose.
That's amazing, but yeah, that was.
I don't know if you were in I thought Kimberly was in the limo with me.
I must have been there too for some unexplained Maybe I was there for more.
You were just sitting a ride.
I can't You're gonna be okay, Doug?
Do you my help? Feeling comfortable?
I'll be in the limo with you. That's so funny.
But that tends to happen when you're in this business long enough, you will work with other people like you did and Desperate Housewives with another Melrose with Marcia.
Yes, of course, yes, so that was just you were on that shocking and amazing yeah eight eight.
And I didn't really watched the show. Did you guys have a lot together? You both your character?
There was no, well, we weren't a married couple. I was married to FeliCa Huffman on the show. But and Marcia went through a few husbands on that show.
She just want to do apparently went for a long time in her defense.
Yeah, and but we were with each other all the time, and mean we would be at dinner parties and what have you seens like that.
But I remember seeing you on the upfronts because I was doing then and we were on the same network. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and they cared a lot more about you guys than us. And I remember being there for Moros and Alley and I was like, we're the queen of the ball. Then I was there you were Desperate Housewives. I was a growing year.
I was like.
Oh, this is what it's like to be the other show.
But it happens very fast and went back when the year that I we started on Desperate Housewives, Gray's Anatomy was then a mid season replacement. They were mid season, so we were at the same upfront and then oh, I don't know, twenty two years later, they're still on the air. It's like what, yeah, So it turns very quickly.
It does. It does as it does. It's not really about me. It's this show I happen to be on at any given time.
It's weird. It's never been about me, so it's.
Just before we go on.
I think that's a real lesson for our listeners who may not be in the business.
That is a truth and a.
Hard pill that's hard to swallow because it often isn't about you, and yet they make you feel like it is.
When you're on top, they make you feel like it is. You get this and.
That, and you know limos in real life and dinner parties in real life. There and then you know, if the ratings drop or if you're like oh or whatever, another show comes up, like Here's Anatomy like that, it changes there. You have to hang in there and you realize like you were a big deal in the context of this.
You know, it's hard for.
Human being to really really it's not really about you on your own.
I took my son to New York. So I did the upfront for years and years and years, and I took my son to New York and I was like, Oh, this is expensive. We will not be staying where we used to say, we know two bedroom sweets in our future.
In New York. They stopped inviting us to upfronts after, like there were other shows that they were just to sell.
Yeah, they'll invite limited cast, like just a couple of people or something.
I remember one year, and I'm not going to name names, but one of your Desperate Housewives castmates, we were talking after the party and he was really drunk and looked very upset and he had already knew that was getting killed off. And I was like, Wow, he really seems upset. And then I saw the show and I was like, Oh, made him go to upfronts even now he knew he.
Was going to get killed He knew knew that, Yeah, he knew that he was they choose him, but he had to show up to the upfronts because so that it appeared that we were all still.
A yes, drunk and crying there.
Found a way to find the bar.
Yeah right, you remember, this is just a quick one about the upfronts when the cast of the practice, so the show had gotten picked up but with a much reduced cast, and they didn't know. So they flew the whole cast out to the upfronts and then there was just a blood bath and they didn't know, like, yeah, we got picked up, Yeah, we got picked up. They come home from the upfront and like, hey, listen, one more thing, and like half of the cast.
That is so and by the way, so that means again for our listeners, they used these cast members.
These you know, public figures.
They're actors that are bringing in all the numbers to sell the show. You know, it's like a couple of nights at a very fancy hotel and then they can them.
Yeah, like it's so.
We used to point.
Yeah, no, no, I never recommended it.
We used to think you were safe, Like I'm at the upfronts, I'm safe. I enjoyed the party.
Do I take home the ship?
This was my last time getting free shampoo?
Or did you bring all the shampoo home.
One hundred percent of people who go to upfronts with with their pilot and then uh, there's editing and recasting afterwards.
I mean, I think there's a show where the cast was flown out and then they were told get back on the plane. In the meantime the show's not happening. But they did get the mileage, get back on the plane. They did get there once.
You're not knowing they flew us out. We were on the bubble, all right, at the top of the world. You may know this, Laura, but we ask everybody your audition story from Melro's place. Do you remember?
I thought you might ask me, Yes, I do, I actually remember, and h here's what I remember. The next day, I at that time in my life, I would work out in the morning with my what was my the person who was my stunt double Denny Pierce, fantastic guy just made an appearance in that episode that you guys did the rundown before. When I, yeah, it's my stunt double Denny. Yes, I had we met he was I mean, I.
Was one star that I didn't know. I did not know this.
I what do you mean.
I've had the same stunt double for my career when I've been, when I've been in a position to be able to say yes, use my stunt double. That's and it's this fantastic stunt man named Denny Pearce. And so I went to the gym the next morning after the audition from Melroe's place, and he said, how was it? And I said to him, and he recalls this, I said, it was everything that I hate about Hollywood. It was, well, we auditioned at mister Spelling's office and there it was
like out of a bad B movie. There were girls and skirts up to here and heels up to there and you know, crossing, and it was every sort of superfish thing about the business that I was fighting against. And so that's really I thought, this is awful. You know, I was in a position in my life where I really I needed I needed to work. So but as you as we all know, it did work out.
It did work out.
Yeah, But that was what my initial take was. I don't, I don't, I don't care for this.
Was that your only audition, did you go straight to spelling?
I went. I went straight to spelling with obviously Darren in the room, and then but then I had a network test. Yes, I did have a network test after that where we went to Fox and and Doug.
Were you on shows?
Obviously you were because you had a stunt double. Were you on shows beforehand? Were you kind of going from did you have a show or job?
Thank you? Yeah? Yeah? No, No, I had done I had done about six or eight movies. I had had been through a three picture deal at MGM with Yeah No, I started a movie called Stumped three talking about here. I had started a movie called Masquerade with Rob Low, Meg Tilly, Dana Delaney John and they had that's where the deal was. I had done The Hanoi Hilton, a film about the American powis in Vietnam. I had done
this movie where I met Danny Was. I'd done Sir Teen Wolf, blah blah, A bunch of a bunch of movies. Not as big as Space Boss, but these were.
But you know, I had primarily say I had a stunt double.
There you he a lovely guy with a cigar.
He's a perfect Matt.
Mustache. Hilarious anyway, But no, but my recollection is just that.
And I didn't think I when I went to network, I did not think I was getting the job, but I actually got the job.
And did you want when you read the script? Did you resonate most with Matt?
No, everybody, every guy on that I know from our show. Everybody wanted to play Billy. Did you read for Milly or never read for Billy? I read from Matt, and I loved the character because he was exceptional, right, He's exceptional. He was the gay character, and I knew that that would be exceptional. So I was interested in being a character actor, and this is what I wanted to do with my life, and so I went and I did that well.
And it's hard to imagine now, like people aren't our generation, how rare that was because we most of our listeners grew up with Will and Grace, Like they thought, well, the gay people are the stars of the show, but that wasn't true at that time. Yeah, and we're reading in that did people tell you not to take it? Like? Was your agent worried about you taking it? We're friends and family worried about you taking the job.
I think the most shocking revelation was it came from when the when the calls coming from inside the house we were doing the show, and I wonder if you guys remember we had a publicist on our show by the name of Sam. We were represented by P m K, which was Pat Kingsley. Was I did get right right? She was an icon for our listeners and icon in the business. She was a very powerful woman who had
this huge publicity agent and she represented mister Spelling. And when we were doing those promos on Meloe's on Melroe's Avenue, when we were shooting all those things and the trailers for our shows, I had said to Sam, our publicist, do you care to talk about how to handle how we're going to handle this going forward? That with this character, that there was a gay character. I knew it was exceptional and I thought people would be interested. She goes, well, no,
it's not a big deal. You know, you're an actor. You're just playing. And I said, oh, clearly she doesn't get it, because I then went out and the point was that in publicity I never would acknowledge whether I was straight or gay or in real life with publicity
and they asked and that was my choice. Well, when that became apparent to Spelling in the network, that was not okay with them, and so they called a meeting and I was being called in to Pat Kingsley's office with Darren and these people to sit with me and say, well, we don't see why, it's just not a big deal. Why you just want to say, well, yeah, it shouldn't matter, but I'm heterosexual, And I said no, I was not
going to make my living playing a gay man. But then say, oh, but I'm but I would never be associated with that. This isn't me. And you have to remember at this time in life. Well, first of all, he was the only gay character at that time in television. We had had Billy Crystall and so, we had had the movie Loving, We were about to have Mitchell Anderson on Party of Five and Billy Brocktrump and a friend of mine from on NYPD Blewe but at the time that was the only one. So there was an enormous
amount of interest. And they asked me to come out as straight, and I said no, including Darren, including because he was Darren because.
He gay, as everybody knows, but he was a in the producer role and there with Aaron Spelling, and so they're thinking protect the show somehow.
They are thinking protect the show, and they thought that that would be somehow more palatable to the American public if they could avail themselves of the reality that I was actually a straight man. And I thought that was morally reprehensible. And I said, you may not prostitute my personal life for the benefit of our show because you think it's somehow more politically correct. And so I went out and I was asked in every conceivable way whether
I was straight or gay. And I would then say, well, it's interesting just that that's the assumption, because are we to assume does that mean no? One asked Andrew, well, you're playing Billy, does that mean you're straight? You know? And there were many of these things, and so I would literally say they would ask, well, what do you have in common with the character? Said, well, we're the same height, and we both have a sense of humor,
you know. So it was an unusual time, and it's really hard for most of our listeners, I imagine today to imagine what it was. But I like to say that we were in the Lucy and Ricky times of Lucy Oball and.
Yeahs bring up a more current reference.
Well, well, because I love Lucy show. They had they were married a couple who had separate bats. Yes, but that's where we were in terms of Uh, this was a nineteen ninety two of gay culture, so we were entering in time of don't ask, don't tell, of that era in politics. You couldn't see me hold a man's hand on our show. And of course we ultimately had a kiss, and that was shot on the show, and
that too was prostituted. I mean, because they knew very well when we shot that episode that they were not going to air the kiss.
Do you think they knew?
Oh, I know full well, Darren knew, but they had told them. The network had told them we're not doing don't shoot it, and he shot it anyway, and they shot it for the very fodder of publicity to be able to put in the Elks hand the La Times. Oh, they wouldn't show the kiss, and they shot the kiss and they wouldn't show it, and it ended up getting played.
Yeah. But but.
Yeah, so they cut the actual kiss out of the show. You don't see it, but they imply it.
Doug.
I am blown away by what you're saying and.
Who you stood up for.
But who you stood up to at that young age and in a time when you were an actor who needed a job.
I can't see myself doing that. I can't I can see I mean, were you where did that come from?
First of all, well, I just felt I don't know, I felt the responsibility to it at the time. Also, Will Smith was about to appear come out in the John quere six Degrees of Separation. The character's gay, and he came out the time and said, well, I would never I would never kiss a guy on screen, and
I would never do this, you know. And it's like he distanced himself every actor that had done this, and I just thought it was I just couldn't morally bring myself to say, oh, I'm gonna every week, I'm going to come to work and I'm going to play this character, but that you know, I should distance myself from it. My intention with Matt was to say, he is your son, he is your brother, he is your friend, he is every man, he's your neighbor. He's a regular guy who
happens to be gay. And I will say this was one of the other really compelling, eye opening things about playing the role. Here's Matt. And I would get mainly positive feedback from the community about playing the role, but there were many gay men who were like, oh, Matt's not gay enough, and blah blah blah, people who would snipe at me as well. And what became painfully evident was not any one character is going to represent an
entire the diversity of an entire community. So to think that Matt Fielding, as a lone gay character, could you know, shoulder the entire community's representation. It was an impossible, you know task. And so and we've now we see a much greater diversity of gay characters, and aren't we all glad that we're here?
Yeah?
I was thinking of happy endings? Have you seen happy endings?
I haven't.
This very very funny show. It's very it was it got canceled, which is such a bummer, but the gay characters like the schlubby sports loving guy, and it allowed it, like we had Will and Grace first and these very sort of some somewhat stereotypical with these amazing guys who also get to be you know, as you said, brothers and sons and friends and lovers and all this great stuff.
And then you were in the beginning when but that's an important step, right, You need the character out there that's sort of almost closeted on screen like you the character wasn't, but the network wanted you to sort of keep it quiet and like, I will not like this person gets to be fully this character right and by.
The way, I'd like to say, just to play the other side as well. I was on board. I understand logically at that time in our history of presenting a character that let the public fall in love with the guy. Let it. You know, I understood not wanting to do storylines that were too divisive in gay forward at that time, you know, let's make him so yeah. I understood when I was everyone's best friend and that it was okay just knowing, but just seeing that the character was accepted.
And the greatest privilege of ever playing this role has been the nearly forty years since where to this day, when Laura was just at the con. It's happened to me in the theater in Connecticut. It happens to me on baseball fields in Oregon at our son's game, where I have men come up to me or send letters who say thank you that at that time you're all I had is your most ye or just got a letter.
It was handed a letter in at the cont I got letters at the theater and at the time when I was in the nineties, I got letters from kids who were coming out to me, and only me. I would write them. It was a really emotional and touchy thing because I would write these kids back and say, you're okay, hang in there, but you know, coming out is a very very personal thing and they needed their privacy in their space.
Isn't it amazing? Like they didn't know what they were choosing when they chose you. In fact, they wanted someone who would play the company game, yeah, the company. Isn't that amazing? How you snut through with your strong sense of morals and ethics and values and you get to be that person. Isn't that amazing?
Thank you? I will say I will say this. One of the other elements was so I mentioned Mitchell Anderson, who was on Party of five, Billy brockchup on NYPD Blue there later.
In our show he was this, he was a guest this, he was the guy who was naked. Mitchell Anderson Mitchell show I forgot.
Yeah and I used to see each other all the time when we were young guys going out, as was Billy Moses.
Who you just you and I were great friends before Merrow's place enduring.
Yeah, awesome, Yes, And I was going to say you Billy Moses as someone I would see all the time too, who you just made out with all the time, And.
That was just like we barely talk. You don't want to learn our lines.
What was happening, but we there was. They were doing a piece in Out magazine on these these gay characters in network television after we had been on the air for a while, and they interviewed me first, and I said, you know, I'm not. I don't, I have never and I will not tell you whether I am straight or gay or not. And I won't. But what that did was allow and I got calls from Billy and I heard from Mitchell later that these were two guys who are who happened to be gay who have since come out.
I I'm not outing there, they're out there. They're out there, out in real life. They're out in real life and who at the time, but they weren't yet comfortable coming out. They're playing gay characters and they and so they didn't have to answer the question. And I'm I'm proud of that, and that's great.
I get it.
So they don't have to if you don't, because I read Rupert Everett's book and when basically he was like on top of the world, his career was going uphill, and he came out or he was outed, I'm not sure, and that was that.
You had a hard time ever since he wasn't cast for years and you're not questioned about it, and you're not in that space. You don't think about it.
No, no, no, no, you don't. But ironically, now more than thirty years later, the tide has turned one hundred and eighty degrees because we've got fantastic, wonderful actors like Matt Boehmer who can do magic, Mike and does you know, huge gay roles, the boys in the band, the guys recently redid.
You know?
So there's all these but I cannot, I cannot and play a gay character anymore because we're in a new world and casting where if you are not the thing that it is, you're not allowed to do it.
Well that there's a balance out. I think it's it's, you know, the pendulum swings. But I was thinking about Matt Boehmer because when he sort of he was already out in his life when he came out to the world. He just thanked his husband at an acceptance speech, and I had this wave of isn't it amazing that we're in a world where that's what he does? And everyone went, oh, interesting, okay, and it's just like went on with our day because
so different from just different. Ninety one feels like yesterday, right, Like you feel like that was a couple of years ago, right, No, it was over thirty years ago. Things were so different, right, and you kill, Wow, we really have come a long way in this area. And I loved what you said too.
You said you wanted to play a character. And what was good about it was it showed that nobody in the apartment building had an opinion, like we just all loved you, which was very and we didn't think about it, and that was very California and Los Angeles. But I think it was a great example to put out for the world, which is we are all friends who happened to have different things about it.
Your character before? Did the other characters know? Were you.
Well?
And I know you just I think you've recently recapped the episode where Matt gets Gabe Ashton, and there's that and it's it's it's the Jake character who takes me to the hospital and we're there and someone says to him, you know, you take your boyfriend home? And I thought, oh, what did that have been? Great?
I wish I think though, I was curious because when when Jake says at the moment, say take your boyfriendame Jaco's he's not my boyfriend. And I was like, oh, that's an interesting line. What did you think of that line, like at the time, and what did you think of when you watched it again.
Well, I don't recall what I thought of at the at the moment, but I just loved that the assumption, the assumption from the interrogation. If two guys are here and he's saying he's gay, you're good. You're gay by association, it is.
You didn't feel like because I wondered if the character was distancing himself. Oh, Jake, yeah, watching it this time, I thought, is that what that line? I like?
How grand it though?
Like he didn't move away, he just said, that's an assumption. You're wrong and I'm not so how my friend and I.
Didn't judge it, And I think I think Matt was is and that we all should be like not easily offended, like he wasn't looking for Jake. Jake had done them the solid the fact he goes, we're not that's I'm not his boyfriend. That was like, you, no, he's not. That's the truth, And I'm not going to be offended.
That's what you're going to say. I thought we all should be have a crush.
On Jake's That's what I said.
We all did, that's what we.
Did.
Just finish this recap for episode thirteen, and we started to talk about it. And when we were doing the recap, and in my defense, I was like suffering from the flu. I was completely twitterious last week. But we mentioned an article. There was an LA Times article that was written about this moment because episode thirteen was very important episode for our show Sweeps week, and an LA Times writer named Daniel Sarone wrote this article and here's what you don't know.
And I failed to mention my delirium last week. He's a good friend of ours. We weren't friends back then, but like it's this weird full circle.
Oh you weren't friends back then?
No, it goes back back and we were having this conversation a few months back. I think I even mentioned it to you guys, like, oh my god, I have this great article from the nineties that I need to bring up when we get to that episode. And then here it was, and then I've forgotten that episode.
But Laura's defense literally as she was going farther and farther down by the end of it, lying on the couch.
You may not have seen it or heard it on the podcast.
I was I realized what a fainting couch was, as go on, you're such a pro, I will do this from ning up.
And yeah, but this he was talking about like they had not been writing for the character of Matt yet. And then when it was time for this episode that the that the most comfortable storyline the network could find that everybody could sign off on was this gay bashing. There were very limited storylines that that the network would be comfortable with because the advertisers were only comfortable sort
of touching on certain things. And one of them was the gay bashing, and the other was, you know, a kid coming out to his parents and that awkward conversation whatever. And and Daniel at the time it was just, you know, he noticed it that this was, you know, something that wasn't being addressed and then here Melrose was doing it
in this episode. Yeah, and were you Were you conscious of that, like when you started into that storyline where you're like, oh, this is like where you get interviews after?
Did you get a questions?
Yeah? We were. I was called doing press around around the around the episode, and and I kind of I knew. I just felt that that was going to be a storyline that was coming at some point. It was sort of an inevitability because it was a very real thing as well, and I think Daniel mentions that in the article as well. It's not that it wasn't real, it's just that that is what the networks felt safe dealing with that and coming out and parents and that. But we did some great things we did. You know, I
ended up on the show. I think it's ironic that my my boyfriend on the show is Jason Bigey. But now it was like he's on Chicago, Jason like this the whole time. But so that's my shout out to Jason.
Didn't show any affection on the show.
No, no, no, no, never with him?
Could you know?
We we I think we surreptitiously we surreptitiously held hands underneath the table. I think there might have been a shot of us actually holding hands, but that had to be away from public consumption because by the way, he was in the military, and that was our storyline, right, it was don't ask, don't tell clever. Actually there were yeah, there, yeah,
it was. It was always tricky. I will say there was an actor I was working with who wasn't as comfortable that he was playing someone who is uh gay, and I wanted in an effort to show that Matt was behaving with this with this character in a way that he wasn't like, against his better judgment. I wanted him to steal a kiss at work, like look around, make sure no one was looking, but kiss this guy in the cheek, just just a peck on the cheek.
And this other actor was so uncomfortable with like that's not in the script, that we're not doing that, and he was so uncomfortable with it. I sort of found that that that that shocking. So it was a different It was a different time, and not everyone was as comfortable.
With I mean famously, actors, especially like kind of macho actors, uh had to stay in the public syde macho and straight and even like womanizers, do you know what I mean? Like, there's no way they could be absolutely because is it because Aaron thought that the audience wouldn't buy it? Like I'm well now I remember it was it was different.
It was no, it was to make It was about palatability. They wanted the character to be palatable, and so if they could say that, well, the actor is really straight, he's just acting, then it became less real to them. But in the defense of like the actor that I just said, and anyone that had any objection to me playing the role to begin with, it was a very
real thing. The business didn't cut into it, and it was an issue for me going forward, and so much so that I had an executive who who told me, yeah, we need to let the gay thing go, you know, but we need a more time to let that gay thing, you know.
Oh, like they wouldn't see you for a part, they wouldn't.
Hire you to He was the FX Network and that was his His advice to me was that I should go get one of those Sun Dance movies, like I could snap my fingers and do that.
Ironically to pick up Jack till three.
One of those independent movies. But ironically after the show, and it still took time because I immediately upon leaving the show, I went and did the movie Godzilla with Matthew Broderick and those and so it was a big feature film and I was a straight character, but coming into houses for five years every day saying Hi, I'm mad and I'm gay. Hi. I mean, that's what the
you know, That's what I was left with. But as I said earlier and I will say again still thirty years later, it's a huge blessing in my life that I people still come up to me and reference it.
Yeah, and because of how you did it, Because you did it integrity of your heart. That's why that's amazing, And it's crazy to think about now, Like that's one of the things we keep as we look at issues that we dealt with and how we dealt with them, like, wow, that feels like yesterday, but things are so different. And that's an area where progress has been in the right directions, the two steps forward, one step back. But really we've come a long way, and we have.
But I think you ladies dealt with it much more frequently than guys ever did because you know you were always either being victimized. You know, I'm sure as you go through the the episode, you remember how many people you know what you are.
Thinkingting, Well, I say it because I've looked at all of them and over the last four years or whatever, I say it as this and maybe you guys have another take on it. The go to the default drama storyline is to hurt the woman, like threaten the woman, hurt the woman, overpower her and somehow or other, because all of our female characters were victimized somehow, right, So, whether it was physical, emotional.
Threatened all of us women in jeopardy and women in Jeopardy. So I think that's changed.
But like, aren't there any other storylines that can be dramatic and interesting?
It was so common back then.
Yeah, you know, I think that was emblematic at the time.
I think you were absolutely Yeah, And it was also I mean you sort of touched on it, but like it was, it was also a matter of the advertisers being comfortable with it because they had withdrawn from other shows.
Oh, you make Law makes that one of the most
salient points. What were what our audience, what the listening audience needs to remember is this was a time when there was something called the Christian Coalition and the Moral Majority, and they if you don't remember those two things, they would watch something on television and if they didn't like it, if it didn't meet what their moral agenda and standards were for the country, they would do letter writing campaigns to the advertisers, and all of a sudden, advertisers would
pull their their ads from those shows. And that was the threat of Maloe's place. And that was and thank you for referencing this, because Darren mister Spelling. Fox Network should be applauded that they, in the face of that still went forward with this character in the in those times and took it head on.
You know, we didn't call that cancel culture, but that's what that was.
It really absolutely and wow, it was absolutely so that was very real. So all of these dynamics were at play and it was, uh, it made it treacherous for the network and they really did me in some way. But you know, really what happened with me, and you remember this is that really they you know, the fallout was they just don't use him. I just wasn't around much.
Do you remember I told this to tell it again. One time Doug came to work and you had a paper sign around his neck and it said, Hi, I'm Doug. I play Matt.
This was after Christia our Dolly Grip and everyone. They had taken tumbleweeds and put them in front of MAT's door. I did. I had Mara Wilson who played my Yeah, she was the nineties. Really was she. I adored her. I adored her mom who passed and uh, but she's uh. She's a lovely woman. Was an author, I believe, a successful author.
And she was.
She was a great kid.
She's the child in Misdoubt Fires and many other and she's a child in an episode coming up in your storyline.
I love that you counted her as a roommate. Well, I think you were her like guardian.
She was her roommate.
Yeah, I mean I became her.
If I thought of my son as a roommate, I've have much higher expectations for him doing dishes, boundaries, very uneaven, I do waigh too much of the cooking and by the way, all the laundry. How did that happen?
You also sort of touched on it for a second that that the idea that it hasn't you haven't been able to shake it, like in your career and you personally like still to this day, people just make assumptions like, oh, Matt and Sydney or how does that what like Laura and Dougara May what I thought Matt was like that some is just still this many years later people, Well, people.
Made that assumption about Laura too. Let me. I like, well, yeah, the story, well, yes, and.
So I was having to do married the gay guy.
Yeah, so I was having an ankle surgery. It's having an ankle fusion, and we weren't yet married, and I don't, I don't, we might we were probably engaged. And uh so Laura was at the hospital waiting for me after surgery and in the room afterwards, and when I came to there was a nurse at my bench. I said, well, I wasn't going to leave you because I was going to leave you with her because she's going to do something evil.
And I'm I'm right here, I'm in.
That I'm doing in my pink with the matching pill box.
Yeah, you think that's weird? What is weird about that?
You were very convincing.
I have to say, that's amazing that's like something from the movie Misery, Like that's brilliant.
Yeah, she was really concerned I was going to do something bad boy. Yeah, but even more harmless assumptions like that, they're like, what like just seeing us at dinner, They're like, wow, you know, it's just something that for this many years, people are still associating assault with these characters.
I mean people when they see you, if they don't know you, they think of the character that they think of you used to have. So that's kind of like you have done a lot of different things that I know, well, they still think of you as Melo's Place.
You said.
It's like if anybody says I know you from somewhere, I just say Melrose Place to cut. I used to like go the other way and list everything, but it was always it was always Melrose Place anyway, So I just go Melro's place, Oh all right, and then oh.
I had a crew member. This has happened more than once where people go, oh, yeah, you were on that. Yeah you know, I really like that Sydney. I thought she was hot me too, that's my wife. And then uh, backstroke.
I told the story like when I would have boyfriends on Zet and Andrew and I were dating in secret. They would say to him, I think Courtney has the hots for me, and he'd be like, really, say.
Such a thing.
You'd be surprised. Probably every guest are they brought on for me? Maybe I just sort of put Doug saying to Laura, I think Courtney has the hots for me.
It's so funny, like watching the shows now and the episodes and hearing how what was going on behind the screen with these two with Andrew and Courtney versus what was going on with Billy and Alison, you know, with their dating and when they broke up, and.
Right because she's really she's giving us a timeline. She's like, right about now.
It's really fun.
I just enjoyed remembering Andrew Shoe, who you know, it's always been just the most humble, gentle soul and uh coming to work and showing up in a Porsche at nine forty four, was it right? He got he got a Porsche, a used one, he was used, yeah, but yeah yeah.
And by the way, when he's driving his Porsche, he still had he still had four roommates, so he was like to Glamour's life and I would go to his house with him and his four roommates, and it was just I was like, good, I never got to go to college.
This is fun in his college door kind.
Of like with like furniture they found and they were just bringing bad smells.
They never have to be a car and they have beers in the fridge.
It was fascinating.
That's amazing. So we had fans ask about Desperate. So Desperate Housewives also ran for eight seasons, which is nuts because we think of Melrose as like, wow, we were so lucky to have a long running series for five seasons, and then the show went on for seven, and then Desperate went on for eight, and then you've had another. The Courtneys had an show for five seasons.
Courtney's had.
Too went Melrose went seven years. We just left it four right, five? Right, I'm sorry we left.
And yeah, so Desperate Housewives came on. When did that come on?
What were those years?
Was it two thousands?
It was two thousand and four to twenty and twelve, Yeah, two thousand and four to twenty twelve, And yeah, I loved.
Was that as happy as set.
Come on? I wanted to use I wanted to use it. Still the place so you expose all of the dirty laundry on Desperate.
House consider the answer. I can't play.
You know, I said it before we started. I'm a guy. I don't care. No, it wasn't always sometimes a very dysfunctional place, but never when I was there with Felicity Huffman, she and I we always had a brilliant time. I still adore her to this day. I hope she says the same about me. But Noah, I loved it. I have said I had difficult days. I had challenging days, but I never had a bad day on time.
That's great on Desperate housewise, But we were trying to think because people always assume, because of our storylines on Maulow's Place, that we had a lot of back stage, behind the scenes drama, you know, like in our interviews in mine anyway, that's what they would ask, Well, what was behind and you know, I mean, we're I can't think of it, really, we can't think of it. We talk about how and why we wanted to do this podcast.
Was like we realized, like we all really got long and there wasn't a lot of right.
Maybe we like each other, we like going down that memory lane.
I remember in the makeup uh trailer there, I was like, oh, I need to be in the makeup trailer.
You know, Heather would come in and do hers and I'm like, can you use that color? What color is she using?
But you know it's like a little bit like, oh, I want to be you know, because there's like five of us or six of us or seven of us women, and so I wanted to make sure I was getting enough of Like I come out in my hair is this high?
I'm like, maybe it's too hot. But there wasn't real you know, Yeah, I don't.
I don't recall John on our set until Jack Wagner, right, My favorite.
Guys about the makeup trailer because a lot of shows, when the shows get successful, people get makeup done in the room where they separate or like Heather came in. She was a very big star, like she could have separated herself. She walked right and waited her turn like we all hung out and talked.
She was her favorite place to be for that.
Yeah, like we had favored nations in our trailers, like she didn't coming to the big Winnebago, although we all got better trailers than she came. Do you remember that she didn't say anything, but all of a sudden we all got this huge upgrade into these really nice trailers.
One of my favorite backstage stories was that it's Jack Wagner's story. I'm probably gonna but I thought it was just so funny. Jack would tease Priscilla Pressley mercilessly about you know, wanting to date, about you know, and he would, you know, he was always and I don't know how much of it was real or how much of it was, you know, just an act, but he put it on.
But Priscilla came to the set and said, listen, you came to work one day in the morning the trailer with Lona and said, listen, tell, listen, we have to tell everybody set up to Jack that I showed up at the bar and he never came. So she laid the groundwork for that and then Jack and everyone's like, God, Jack, you're such a I love.
Her now, Yeah, that's amazing.
I love you know. I read.
In Elvis and Priscilla book. I read her book. This came out last year the year.
Before, and I just read her granddaughters and daughter's book, Riley Keyo's Masa Murray's book. Anyway, I learned from there that Elvis was a big prankster, like all he did was pull you know. So you just reminded me like that sounds very much like something like Elvis would have done with his posse, you know what I mean, like, oh, tell someone, So he missed the rehearsal.
Maybe maybe Jack knew that, and that's why he was using that card too with Priscilla.
But he was a big jokes she got back, which he loved to teach.
I just had a memory of one time when you know, Heather and Jack tease each other mercilessly, and they're both so incredibly funny, and she would always tease him about being vain. And one time when he asked for a touch up, like to look at the mirrorfore, do you remember, they brought out a full length mirror look at himself? You remember?
I don't remember that.
Jeffers, who was a makeup arty, brought out literally a full life.
Remember, and he was grateful for it.
He's like thank you, because he was like that's about right. A little bigger next, but that's about right.
And he would always call her for yet her name, you know, Wendy Helen Where's Helen?
Where Helen? He's a funny He's a very funny man. Yeah, yeah, yeah, all those those good looks. You know. Didn't let him get his two.
Projects with him after that. Oh yeah, we were.
Josie's still doing those homework movies with him, Lucky here. Yeah, he's funny.
It's always nice when you work with somebody you've already worked with. It just kind of like cuts the just like you know, I don't know, it just makes it so much more comfortable and just kind of pick up where you left off, makes the chemistry better.
So I don't know if we've I think we forgot to mention this. Back when Thomas was on, he had mentioned that he'd done an episode of Colombo, a remake no way back the original Columba before doing Melrose.
Because he's older than all of us.
I did a two hour Colombo together with Doug.
They were in the same Columbo episode too, before Melroe.
Seven, so it wasn't the original original. It was when he came back and.
Two hour movies he would do four year Peter. Yes, wow, one of my great the highlights of my careers really with Peter Falk because I adored my favorite movie, one of my favorite movies. I've tortured my kids with this, The in Laws, and he's like Serpentine shall Yeah, he and Alan Arkin are incredible.
Did he do one hundred takes? I heard he used one hundred takes on Yeah.
I don't remember him being anything less than a prince, A professional, well not.
I'm professional, but he was trying to perfect it, so he would do it against he was always looking for more.
Probably he was here's what I collect. So Thomas and I, Thomas and I played cops. Thomas Thomas was marrying Peter Fowx like niece. Okay, that that's and I was in the wedding and a crime that the bride gets abducted in the mur and so all the cops now have to go to work. So our photographs of the wedding we're going to be playing as evidence. So we took
tons of photographs of the groomsman, stuff with Peter and stuff. Well, back in those days, we were having a wedding reception scene and this no longer happens in television, but like Peter's a star. They were giving him white wine, they were giving he was drinking. He was drinking. So we're having we're having a photo shoot and I'm I'm with this guy who I just adore, and so I finally we're done with the photos. We've been having shots where we're arm in arm and we're walking away from the
photos and I say, I got it, mister fuck. I just got to tell you that The End Laws is one of my favorite movies of all time. And he goes, oh was it? And I said, oh God, are you kidding me? Serpentine shell, serpentine show. And he goes, do you think that was funny? Did you think that was funny? He said? He said, I didn't think that was funny at all. But Arkan he'd have come back tomorrow to do that scene again. He thought it was so funny.
So yeah, there were so many, just so many great Peter Falk moments.
So how many are how many episodes?
Did you? I just did one two hour movie? But but Thomas Colabra was that was the groom he was, you know, he had this big park and so we had worked together before we both ended up on Melrose Place.
Yeah.
See, you're you're around long enough.
And someone literally a friend of mine just saw, like, whose mother watches nothing but these old Columbus and sent me like a screenshot of us. Oh you do, I do, Okay, I'll post it. We'll put this isn't.
Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. I read it. You are at UCLA and left early.
I well, I left more than early. Like it is. It's it's when did you leave?
Because I.
Went to UCLA in the fall of nineteen eighty two and I stayed for one ten week semester, long enough to become a college dropout.
That's so, are you two Ucla F I'm a very proud la drop You're close. You are not close.
My father still wants me to go back and get an honorary degree or a degree.
Oh, but you've come from educators is a professor?
Your dad was literally I was working with Lucie Ball and he's like, can't you go back and get an honorary degree?
I go, excuse me, I have to get on set because.
Loci a bom waiting for me.
Dad, is that not enough?
And he's like, and then I was working on with also with Melbrooks on baseballs, and like, I had to leave because I started working Dad, and he was like, do you think you maybe could go back and get, you know, finish that last semester and get your degree.
And I'm like, no for me. So lately I've been thinking, I wonder if there's online you know.
I would need just like.
I just walk you through it, because I've gone back to online school several times.
You did, I have.
I still don't have a degree, but I have gone. I can walk you through it. I can't walk you through the finish links. I haven't gotten there yet, but I can show you where to go. I can get you to the middle and can get you to degree.
Okay, totally.
If you have a college degree, all of us and they tell our kids wives a college, my kids a junior kids, the kids.
Kids are neither of you.
Anywhere. I did not finish.
No, I did not.
Did you start somewhere?
I started at a couple of places, yes, And I went to the University of Iowa, and I also went to cal State Long Beach before you a semester, uh huh? Before I dropped out.
To do you know?
I signed up twice and didn't go one day at two different places at Allegheny and Pepperdine. All right, does that count if I didn't even signing up.
That's the first stay I did.
It's got on Campus on Pepperdine just because it's just in it's gorgeous. But then I got a movie and then yeah, yeah, it's really important to oh a movie. Yeah bye.
Yeah, oh wow.
Oh well so you so you started working that in eighty two if you left the nineteen.
Eighty three is when I got my sad card. And yes, I started working in nineteen eighty three and I've been an actor for forty one years. Yeah.
Are are we ready for Sea fan questions?
Yes?
We asked for fans to send in some questions, and a lot of them you've already touched on. And it's just naturally the things that people are interested in which we love.
I like this one. Would you play Matt differently in twenty twenty four and then Parenthesy if he wasn't dead and prienthe.
Because he is. Matt is back and he's pissed. Uh No, I thought I thought in watching I have watched a number of the episodes, as you guys have gone through this, and I've gone back, and you know what, I was relieved that I'm not ashamed of anything that I've seen myself do yet. But I will say this. We were talking about Kathleen earlier, Princess who is our wardrobe She was our female wardrobe on set wardrobe person. Because, as you also referenced earlier, I kind of didn't care about
I never watched the show. That's a different story, but I never watched the show. So there's an episode coming I don't know what season is where Matt is in jail and his parents have to come and bail the man. There's a scene at a when you know, one of those where there's plexiglass and you've got the phone on the other end, and and Matt's enraged at his parents about something or what the inference is about why he's
in jail. And so because I didn't really care, and because it would make Kathleen laugh, I'd go, oh wait until you see what I do on this take. I'm just like they they'll never write anger for me again, because I am going to just go I'm going to explode. So I would you know, I would have this scene I take the phone and smacking on the plexiglass and like do my best Al Pacino impersonation, and just to make Kathleen laugh and Oh my god, I can't believe you.
I don't care. I'll do it. I want to see what should I do this one?
Like we're gonna take that again.
The funny thing was, Oh god, it's really into it today.
Oh that's great.
Did you lie? I know.
One of the fan questions was your camaraderie and working with Vanessa, who we just had on as a guest.
I adore. Yeah. We got along so well and she is such it's just a funny human being that that. It was always a pleasure to be around her and I had it was great because I had to be around her a lot, so but we got along very well. Obviously to this day, still get along.
So was it obvious to you too?
And how did you feel about to me watching it was just like the Black Girl and the game you had that you guys were working off each other all the time.
Well, yeah, and you knew and we were aware that like, okay, uh, you know, we'll be over here in the yeah, we'll be here in the minority section. But they didn't stop us for having a good time. And then and then, you know, the only thing I'm ashamed of is that I had to dance anywhere near that.
Size class.
Yeah. The one clue that I wasn't really gay is that I was a terrible dancer.
When she was on and you called in, were you guys facetiming? Yeah, how amazing shahs insane?
Yeah, wow, amazing.
Yeah, and she was so happy to see you.
Yeah, she's getting better, it's getting better. It's really mad. She looks amazing. Yeah, yeah, that was your killing fun to see her, Yeah, for sure, it was really fun to see her.
All right. So a couple more questions. There are actually some questions about Fever Dreams. There were the play that you just did in Connecticut. We had some fans right in that they saw it and they loved it. So there's that well touring.
They asked, Fever.
Dreams a great play play, right, Jeffrey Leeber, who's a fantastic television writer, that I did with Lanna Young and my dearest friend Tim Decay.
Uh.
It was a huge success at Theater Works Hartford. I'd like to thank everyone there. But I had this amazing experience where on one during one of our performances, someone who worked at the theater. These two people had come to see the show and they said, could we please meet him afterwards. And the theater person thought, okay, these aren't they're not crazy, so I'll hold them out see if Doug will deign to speak to them, and yees.
I was like, yeah, of course. They had been fans of melrose Place, these two, this young couple, they had watched melrose Place and then had just binge watched all of Desperate Housewives and said we just had to come. My wife called and said I got tickets and were going. So they came to see me in the theater. And I was just thinking, oh, that's so sweet, that's so good to you, and and they but the guy went on to say, this is the first time we've ever
been to live theater. And I was like, what this like? Not dinner theater? You never saw a production of Fiddler on the Roof, You never went to your like high school musical or something. No, this was the first piece of theater. And I said, well, my goodness, do you think you'll be taking news is something you'll now do? And he said I don't think so, I don't. I don't think I will ever see anything as good as this.
So there were some sweet, sweet people, and I just loved I loved my time at Theater Works Hartford, and yeah, it was. It's it's a really really compelling play.
How long did it take to get your sea legs on stage again?
Yeah?
Oh boy, it's I'll tell you this that it's a lot of work that theater. They literally they literally they gave me the schedule on the first day and I was like, oh, well, rehearsal and they had like rehearsal blocked out on the weekend. I go, I don't. I don't work on Sunday. I mean, I knew that when we're up and running that we would have to do show. No, no, no no. But when you're in rehearsal, you still keep those You work Tuesday through Sunday, you go to work
every day, you get Monday off. Yeah. Yeah, So that was that was a little eye opening, but all in all a really really deeply rewarding experience.
Did you do matinee and night on Saturday and Sunday?
Yes, So we had Laura and I would call double headers. Yeah, uh on Sataturday, and then our final weekend they out of performance. So we did to Saturday and to Sunday. Yeah, And it's a it's a it's a really compelling and difficult, challenging.
And will you do another one?
Or you're like, yeah, no, I'll take it. I'll take a day to day because you have to be in love with it. If you're going to be doing that much rehearsal and then performing every day, you've got it. Takes a level of commitment that in television and film we're not used to. I'll tell you this, I'm ready for a trailer. I'm ready for a trailer and.
A bagel break.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
About the play was really like it was so far out of your comfort zone in the moment, but when it was with your friend Tim, with Tim de Kay, then that was like such an easier consideration to do something that felt really brave and.
I would be remiss if I didn't Tim Dkay, who is a star of White Collar. We mentioned his co star Matt Bomer earlier White Collar Carnival. He's in Oppenheimer. He's done a million, such great work. He was utterly brilliant and he stole the show. I am. I was just honored to be on the stage with him. He's three characters, three three characters, yeah, three characters for.
Well I'm so that's amazing.
I'm in awe of you for hung off to do that for three characters, just one thing to go see a play at this age and.
Already, yeah, there you go. That was at our age.
Can we do that again?
Please?
Like yeah, I was.
I was.
I was really terrified of the life of the live stuff, and as it turns, I lived through it. I never had an enormous gaff or something. I think the most unprofessional thing I did was, you know, audiences, although they were warned forget to turn their cell phones, and one just rang the first time, and you just keep going, rang a second time, and rang the time, at which time I slammed my hand counter.
It was sort of in character, sort of character, but clearly.
Not apologizing to everyone, including stage managers.
You didn't do a what do they do? Patty Lapone and what's his name? Hugh, what's his name? They just turned to the audience and they turn you yeah.
Patty Lapone is yeah, I mean for having told they have been warned the audience.
You know, it's not the first no, they've been worn by that voice of God. Please turn your phones off and unwrap your candies.
Now, there was also a moment in the play where several times that the audience would talk back to us, which.
Really yeah, very involved audience ary.
Tim character asked me at some you know, two thirds of the way through the because who else would understand? And I look at them and I say yeah, And before I could get my line out, someone in the yeah.
What he said, we all say, I do love, didn't you?
How did you like that audience reaction, that immediate reaction in that play that you don't get in film or TV.
I have to tell you and Courdi well, if you remember from my time on acording gym, I'm terrified of the audience. I don't ever need them. My my goal, I don't need them. My goal in doing this was like could it was? It was a personal test. Could I do it? Could I answer this? Could I answer it? Could I answer the emotional requirements of it? Every single
night twice on Saturday and Sunday. And we reached a point in rehearsals where the director where my friend Tim Kay turned to the director and said, you know, I understand the note, but I need an audience now, I need an audience. And I thought, oh, I would be okay. Thing never, that's not.
Why we keep this private.
Yeah, what is so?
No?
And I had much to learn, And I had to learn. I had to learn to hold for last.
Stuff like that, or to not react when the audience is interjecting that's my line.
Was there a point where you got so comfortable with the lines that you just felt yourself in the moment, like you weren't thinking about your next line. You got to just completely let go of the reins.
Well, that's obviously the goal every single day is to really be in the moment that that audience is the first should be the first time that's ever come out of your mouth, because the first time they're ever going to hear it. But and I did, And the more comfortable I didn't get was was not worrying about that so much. I'm really being able to be present, to to play uh freely with the other actors. Yeah.
Wow, Well I do have one more I think by time for one more question. Fan questions from as much as this theater tag, but it's also good and yes, this seems this is a very important question. It's from a user whose user name begins with Lucy, and she says, who's your favorite child? Oh, yes, in case you need time to think about it. She sent a second question, also from a user whose user name begins with Lucy. Who is your favorite child? And why is it Lucy?
Lucy my favorite child? Person? Ever, I will show you is that Lucy. Now, Lucy may have entered that, may have entered her own contact information on my phone, and she may also be in charge of my screensaver because there she is also my favorite child. It changes every day, just who's going to be the nicer?
Who does question?
We've noticed that Matt wore a lot of T shirts, Oh my God, with.
Graphics on them, political.
Statements, political statements, different things. Did you have say in that? Did you like that? Did you pick out fun ones?
The only one I did wear was for the the California Age Ride, which was the celebrity spokesman for I remember that being there. There was God, there was a university back east that had.
Wanted me to wear their stuff that I wren't would stuffin.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But then the rest of that was just all, you know, wardrobe, wardrobe. They just decided that that, yeah, that that's the way. Yeah. I did a little look in the beginning of the backward hats like like that that was I don't know, I've watched something where I had enormous clothes, like like I had a sure that was just like, you know, I could just take another person.
Yeah yeah, well Andrew too, I mean except for you know, Jake had the shirt, but outside of him, all the guys had these huge, voluminous teas.
Yeah, but yours had graphics on them and.
Character, so we found unbelievable.
That one's not that's not so bad. Of course, that's.
Brilliant the very nineties. I like that. She did say do you want to word them for the episode? And you're like a second, yeah, okay, Hey, why don't I ask you another question? What did you think about the death of Matt in season seven? And why did they have to kill Matt off screen? Apparently this person wanted to see you die.
In real.
Person's not alone. Yeah, no, yeah, they wanted a story point, and I would to that person, I would Probably the most honest answer is that writers have a difficult time coming up with storylines, and you know, after seven years on a show like this, you know they're they're tapped out. So using Matt's death to as a device for something else in a character that was happening on screen. I think that's probably why they did that. I you know I would, I don't. I don't care.
So you did seven seasons?
No, I did five? I mean I did the five. I did episode one of you. I did episode the first episode of Year six, and they had written me off the story. Here's interestingly enough, as we all know, mister Spelling was incredible, you know, but also very controlling, and he was also very generous with us about like, as long as we've been in the hiatus, I can't tell you how many other Spelling shows that I did, because Uncle Aaron would would say, hey, come on, can't
do this show. But he was not so keen on us going to do movies or things on our hiatus that were outside of our show. So after year five, I was coming back for just six episodes of Year six, That's what I was coming back to do. And I got Godzilla in the meantime, and there was going to be a three week overlap, and I needed to work that out with with Meloe's place, and I thought, there's no way this is happening. It's impossible. They are not
going to do it. Mister Spelling doesn't do this. At that same time, Heather became pregnant and they lost their hiatus all together, and they weren't getting even have a height as they were just going to shoot right on through. So what they said was, oh god, we've got bigger fish to problems. Let well, we'll pay Doug for the six episodes, but he's got to come back, and he's got to do the first one. We'll write him out in one. They paid me, mister Spelling. Did that solid
for me at a time in my life? Yeah, yeah, And so I really really appreciated that.
So they killed you, you weren't a part of the show. They do because I'm so curious. We tried to ask Thomas, but I'm so curious about that cast because we don't know any of them sing a cast picture and like, I don't know anybody in that well.
We all had our exits because there was a turn there was a turning point at the end of season five. So we all had our various exits and some are remarkable than us, some were notable and memorable, but like, your character was killed as well. But so the literal answer, as far as a fan was asking, is also that was the turning point where that contract was up and you had the plan, and so that was just the that was what they wrote as your exit.
No, so I didn't I don't even know. I know, I know. No, No, I didn't die.
I didn't die.
I didn't until you're seven.
I just wouldn't.
No, I went off to go.
I went off to San Francisco to go.
Yeah.
Okay, So when Matt met his demise, I was not I was no longer on the show. But I really just assumed that the writers needed storyline to to fill out and so that they used that. But I was indeed disappointed that that's the way he went out. But but I understood it, and he Matt had gone off to San Francisco to pursue either fully becoming a doctor or his continued social work. I forgot, or maybe it's.
Going to work in.
Does anyone ever really die on Melroe's place? So I don't think, well, we're gonna come.
I say now, I'm just going to say now, I don't know. And on that note, we are so glad you were finding her, and we're going to ask you the last question that we ask everybody else. Will you come back again. If we ask you to come back, will you come back? So thank you all for your questions, all our listeners, and we'll see you next week on Still the Place.
You guys are amazing. Guys are amazing.
Bye bye