Bill Vogel - Metabolic Health & Cancer
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, eating, clients, cancer, phil, jack, bill, health, lose, metabolically, hear, life, pounds, healthy, chemo, weight, low carb, years, results, big
SPEAKERS
Jack Heald, Bill Vogel, Dr. Philip Ovadia
Jack Heald
Well, welcome back, everybody. It's the Stay Off My Operating Table podcast with Dr. Philip Ovadia, cardiac surgeon, ex fat guy who figured it out six years ago. He isn't fat anymore kept it off. I'm Jack Heald, your host. And we are joined today by Bill Vogel who has a story of overcoming, not just one, but two really significant health issues. So I'm gonna say, hey, Phil, it's beautifully warm where I'm at, how are you?
Dr. Philip Ovadia
I am doing great Jack, and really excited for our conversation today. I was fortunate to stumble across Bill or I think Bill stumbled across me in cyberspace. And it turned out that we actually live about two miles from each other. And so we've been able to connect in real life. And Bill has really an amazing story around health. And I'm excited to share that with the world. So Bill is now helping others along the health journey as well. And we'll certainly get into that. So welcome, Bill. And please introduce yourself to the audience.
Bill Vogel
Sure. Thanks, Bill. Appreciate it. Again, Bill Vogel as my name I live and Phil and I both live in St. Petersburg, Florida. Lovely St. Pete, which is a great place to live. But please don't come we have enough people here got housing prices up right now. So all the people from the Northeast are coming down and buy in. So but anyway, I actually grew up on Long Island, in New York, when school in Connecticut, and played some baseball up there. And also lived in Atlanta, and then moved down to Tampa area in about 2007 2008 timeframe. So I've been in St. Pete for about four years. And it's my final resting spot, not good not going anywhere else. So just a little bit about myself also, I had been in the software business, I sold high ticket computer software.
So any of the techie gurus out there will know SAP and Oracle and those types of companies I work for selling very expensive million dollar and over software did that for 30 plus years, got my kids through school, nice life, homes, vacations, and all that and but the thing about software was it paid the bills and did all those nice things. But I was never really passionate about it. And what I found was I got to the point where I'm kind of done with software. And I've always had an interest in health and wellness. And I'll tell a little bit more about that as we go along here. But I've been following this area for at least 11 years in terms of readings, podcasts, and so forth. And I'm just really interested every day I get up and I'm passionate about what I do. I currently I'm a health longevity coach and I work with men and women over 50 years old. So people in the second half of their lives who really worked very hard to get to where they are building wealth, usually at the detriment of their own health. So that's where I come in to try to get them back to optimal health to where they were and make their remaining years really energetic. And being able to do things they work so hard for their whole lives to get to that point where they can travel, spend time with grandchildren, and so forth. So that's my goal. Again, I love doing this, I love seeing the great results that have happened with my clients and just a terrific way to instead of just retiring I think it's doing something positive for really for man and woman kind out there and really give them incentive to keep moving along and that energy which is really critical going forward.
Jack Heald
So that begs the question, why are you like this?
Bill Vogel
Why am I like this? Well, are you like this? Why everybody has a story and kind of my story from a health and wellness point of view is about 11 years ago, I had put on some weight, but just a little background. I'm tall guy I'm six, and I had gotten to the point where there was a lot of extra weight going on and there was a particular event it was a family session and we had about 25 people and a group photo and they and the photographer kept telling me he said Sir, please button your suit coat.
And unfortunately I could not but my suit coat and he proceeded to say it about five times in front of the entire group family and including my wife's ex-husband was in the group too. So, yeah, yeah. So that was my as I called my come to Jesus moment. And I went home that night, and I told my wife, I said, I'm never going to be weighed this much again. And I got on the scale, and it was 297 numbers imprinted on my tattooed on my forehead, more or less. And so from that point on, I did a lot of research. And I found that the Hey,
Jack Heald
Hold on, I want to stop you right there. Gesture. When did you go from being an athlete, college athlete to a seriously overweight guy? How long did it take? Were you in great shape for a long time? And all of a sudden a balloon? Or was it just a slow, steady accumulation of fat? What's the how'd you get there?
Bill Vogel
Yeah, well, I'll tell you, Jack, it was kind of a yo-yo situation, I'd go gain some weight, get up to 250. Then I dropped I did Nutrisystem Weight Watchers, Jenny Craig, the whole I was a vegetarian for a year and actually put on weight on how you do that. But I did. But anyway, it was a yo-yo back and forth, back and forth. And I know those didn't work for me in terms of a sustainable program for the rest of my life. I didn't, I didn't want to do a short term, they get back on and do the things that are unsuccessful for me.
Jack Heald
So have you had this experience of having tried and ultimately failed at many different things?
Bill Vogel
Yeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, they really weren't sustainable for me. I mean, it wasn't something I was looked at as a short-term fix. And then I go back right on doing what I was doing before and put it lose 20 gains? 30 I'm sure you've heard that story a lot from various folks. But
Jack Heald
well, I mean, yeah, we hear it, but it's really easy. To justify in your mind, you look at somebody like you who's clearly a picture of robust health. And, and be and say, Yeah, well, I'm not like that, though. I'm not like that guy. He probably has supernatural willpower and access to, to the best of this. And the, the most of that, and, and we make excuses for ourselves. So being able to hear, yeah, Bill Vogel tried all the things that everybody tries and failed. Just like everybody failed, right? That's yeah, that's what I'm asking. Okay, so you have this, come to Jesus moment, you're 297 pounds. And, and now you decide to do something different? I'm guessing.
Bill Vogel
That's correct. Yeah. So I walk us through that. Yeah. So I researched the internet. And I found something that was a little bit different, that when you look at initially doesn't make a lot of sense. But at the end, it was successful. And it's successful for my clients also. And that it basically, Jack it's built around minimizing sugar, grains and starch, and really focusing on protein and fat, really Whole Foods, anything that doesn't have an ingredient label on it. So just pure Mother Nature stuff. So vegetables, fruits, beef, chicken, fish, eggs, that those types of things. And what I found was after one year, I dropped 75 pounds, pretty quickly, it just kind of peeled off for me. And, and that's the same as a as a health and longevity coach, that's the same results I'm getting for my clients. It's it just cutting those things out, eating real, real Whole Foods, has made the difference for me.
So the important piece of that too, Jack, is that I've kept it off for 11 years now. So I've not yo-yoed; it just stayed off completely. And, and movement and exercise is important, but I'm not a three-hour muscle head go to the gym every day. And I do I walk I do, I do some a little bit of lifting weights and so forth. But, but those are a couple of key ingredients in losing the weight plus, of the things that are important, like sleep management and hydration. I do some meditation also. So those are the important and key components and really being metabolically healthy, which is really the important thing, and I know, Phil brings us up quite a bit that 88% of our country is metabolically unhealthy.
And all you got to do is look around and you can see that everywhere. It's interesting point. My wife told me she was at a clothing store. And she said even the mannequins now have a little punch on them mannequins, and the in the men's section. They actually have dad bods, so they have like a belly and the mannequins. So, I mean, it's become the new normal, which is very sad for our country. And it's before it used to be the very skinny and spelt female and male models and mannequins and, and now it's just ridiculous but anyway,
Dr. Philip Ovadia
yeah, yeah and it's really never ceases to amaze me, you know how often we hear the same story and it's your story, and it's my story. And we both have patients and clients who tell the same story, and what always interests me, and what I'd like to hear from you is what, finally got you to that point that you were able to accept this alternative information. I know for you it, it was really kind of Vinnie torches, ideas has no sugar, no grains. And Vinnie was one of the early ones that I came across as well for me, it really started with Gary Taubes. But there's, there's that point where you're finally, for some reason, open to seeing that information and open to receiving that information. So, I'd really like to hear what, what made you open to that, rather than just going back, because you very easily could have gone back to the weightwatchers, in the Jenny Craig and all of the stuff that had failed before, and many people do. But you and I, and so many others, at this point, have now had our eyes open and found something that actually worked. So what, what allowed you to actually try that something different.
Bill Vogel
I read, and maybe you did to Phil Atkins book, and focusing on it was kind of revolutionary at the time, it's the exact opposite of what everybody thought. And I said what, let me give this a try it on the surface at that time, it didn't make sense. But it I was seeing results in the first month, it stuff just peeled off. And I'm like, wow, there's something to this, I think, and I kept it up, and the weight kept dropping, and I was satiated. So eating my meals, I wasn't starving between meals typically I I'd have eggs for breakfast, if I eat breakfast, sometimes I don't. But eating protein and veggies for dinner, not eating after dinner.
So I incorporated these little components into it. And, and these are the same components I preach to my clients who I work with, and it just works you're full, you're not starving. When I was on the vegetarian diet there, I was starving all day, and it just never filled you up. And the foods I eat now are just taste good. And we're not eating cabbage soup every day or anything like that you're eating real foods, and they taste good. And, and it works. So, but Atkins really started me off on the whole thing. And it frankly, works, so you can’t get around. And that's kind of the core of a lot of on the low carb, kind of low carb scene is the Atkins diet. He was the Moses of, of low carb, I think. And he again, a lot of people thought he was crazy, but geez, I mean, it's been so successful.
Dr. Philip Ovadia
Yeah. And as amazing as that whole story is, I know that there's a second part to the story because you got healthy, and then you get sick again. And to make sure we get that part of the story out as well.
Bill Vogel
Yeah. So I mean, everybody has their bumps in the road. My first bump was the being basically obese and effect. And then five years after I went through, I went through chemo and I actually wanted to throw out something else about in a moment about chemo, which was pretty interesting. But I found out through a routine blood test annual physical, that my white blood cell count was kind of through the roof. And the doc my primary physician said, hey, there's something's got to be wrong here. Let's retest because you're healthy. You're not sick. Something's wrong.
Well, they retested in my white blood cell count was way, way up. And so they watched it for a little bit, and they ended up doing a biopsy, I had a little lump in my throat, cut it open and said, wow, you have leukemia, non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma. So kind of kind of devastating when you when you hear that, but So I went through six months of chemo. And at one point I had before I started chemo, I had 15 tumors in my neck. So it was I looked like Lou Ferrigno with the big neck going on there, and but not in a good way. And but anyway, I went through my first treatment of chemo went back a week later, just to check in with the doctor and the doctor oncologist said, wow, all your visible tumors are gone. And what I had done is I
Jack Heald
was how long was that? How long was when was it? When did when did he say that? What had happened?
Bill Vogel
Yeah, it was a week after my first my first treatment of, so I went back and you said, yeah, oh, yeah. And he's like, wow, this is we've never seen this before. And I said, you know what? I was listening to a podcast and Walter Longo was on. And he said, there's a lot of promise, we're hearing of fasting the day before the full day before going into your chemo treatments. So I'm like, you know what, I got nothing to lose here. So I went in, and I fasted 24 hours before, and miraculous results. And, and what really upsets me is that I told the doctor this and he, you would think he would say, hey, this is interesting. Where did you hear this? This might be something I want to use my page, my other patients. He just said, oh, that's interesting, and went on and didn't even dig into it.
I'm like, after saying, I've never seen results like this before, after one treatment, you think you'd be digging in and like, wow, this sounds great. Who'd you hear nothing. And I'm like, and this is also the same oncologist that had Coca Cola products and sugar cookies in their room where they do the chemo, and I'm like, sugar is like, the smorgasbord for cancer. I mean, they just sugar is the worst thing.
So I saw Jack, I went through six, six months of chemo, I'm in remission. There's no cure for leukemia, non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma. So I'm kind of keeping my eyes open blood tests, making sure my white blood cell count and just physical exams. And but my doctor had said to me, Bill, if you had come in here at 297, instead of 222 it might have been a different result for you. So I thank God that photographer I was telling you about, I wanted to soak them that day. And an hour could kiss him. Because he changed if he didn't say that I might still be way overweight, and the results could have been far worse. And who knows. But I'm very fortunate and lucky that, that it worked out for me. So there's always a reason for things and I'm glad I lost that weight.
Jack Heald
Yeah, I guess so. So how long ago was the cancer? Was the diagnosis? Five years ago? Okay, so years, four and a half years out from your last chemo?
Bill Vogel
Yes. Correct. Yeah. And I mean, it, there's, there's no cure, so it could come back. They told me it could be five years, you could get it again. And that would not be a good situation to get to have it come back. But so what I'm doing, Jack and Phil is I'm doing everything I can from a nutrition point of view, exercise, supplements, etc. So if it does come back, I know I gave it my best shot, and then no regrets. So that that's why I'm, like, for example, I stopped five years ago, stop drinking alcohol completely. Just everything lined up. So you know what, if it comes back, it comes back and there's nothing I can do about it. So I can't say well, I didn't really give it a shot, and I'm giving it a shot. I'm doing the best I can right now. So don't want it to come back. Yeah,
Dr. Philip Ovadia
you know, somewhat coincidentally last week's guest had a very similar story. And I know Chris Cornell, but here we are with two people who share the same story of doing much better than they were expected to do through cancer and both of you what we're doing low carb and fasting and those nutritional strategies, and it really just again saddens me and Jack and I have discussed this on the episode on the podcast many times how the doctors your doctors aren't curious about this and you would hope that your doctor would say, wow how would you do this? And really be curious about it? And can this work for others, and unfortunately too often, they are just so kind of entrained so entrapped, as I say, within the medical system that they just can't see these amazing results for what they are.
Bill Vogel
Yeah there's, there's a lot of obviously, new studies, Phil, that you and I see all the time out there. Things with great promise, and I don't know, if doctors, other doctors just don't have the time, or just go back to what they learned in medical school and kind of stick with that. But there's just new things coming out. They're fabulous, they really could change people's lives, but they just unfortunately, the doctors are not going to give them that kind of advice. They'd rather as I say, prescribe and procedures that's kind of their gig, and the sick care system versus the healthcare system. big difference here. So,
Jack Heald
so Bill, I'm interested in when people make significant changes, significant permanent changes in their life, whether they're aware of it or not, at the time, there's almost always some sort of pivotal internal shift that occurs and hear in the last 11 years, you've had two of those. I'm interested in what was your I'm interested in your mindset in your, your, your mental and emotional and psychological and even spiritual state? When you found out you had cancer after having beaten the obesity problem, right, what Where were you? What, what would walk us through that those first few hours and days? And how you processed it? And what enabled you to, to not be beaten by something that by a diagnosis that, that, undoubtedly, really cut your legs out from under you?
Bill Vogel
Yeah. Well, yeah, in the beginning, I thought it was kind of surreal when they came up with a diagnosis and like it's almost like it wasn't me. And it would they were saying it to somebody else. And then it kind of hit home with me quite a bit. And but I never thought about, I was going to die from this, I just kept the I could have given up nothing on anything fabulous. But with the weight gain and loss, and then the cancer, I just, I just know, I'm going to beat it. And it's funny Jack, when I went into the, the room there where everyone was getting their IVs with chemo, I mean, I was like, the only healthy-looking person in there. And, again, thank you, God for getting me to lose that weight. But, I mean, I went in there once to the oncologist office, and the nurse said, oh, are you visiting somebody here? Who's getting chemo? I'm like, No, I'm, I'm the patient. But I just think we all have to be prepared and look for to be in good health. If the big see cancer happens, or heart disease, or it could be autoimmune, it could be Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, or whatever, but you, you're we're dealt the cards in life, and it's up to you to play out the hand. And if you play out the hand correctly, and keep yourself in optimal health, you can beat a lot of things. So I always felt I was going to beat it. I never, I never was a what was me, um, given up kind of thing. I just, that's not the right. Not the right way to go. No we have one life on this planet anyway. And I didn't want to go out in assisted living or anything like that I wanted to, I'm gonna go out of my terms. And that's, so I just I can try to get the positive attitude. And luckily, I had a, I have a great wife who was incredibly supportive of me the whole time. So she was there. And, and also want to mention, too, I was never sick during chemo, I didn't lose my hair, nothing. I was, again, I was blessed, and things, things worked out for me. So, but it's all about decisions and I made the decision when I needed to lose that weight and that I didn't know that I was gonna get cancer. Sure, but and it just it that helped me on my way, and it made a significant difference in the in the outcome for sure.
Jack Heald
Phil, is there any? Is there any literature on survival rates with cancer? As it relates to what we what we've been talking about the markers of metabolic health? And well, is that a cellular connection?
Dr. Philip Ovadia
Yeah, there are certainly data that people who are metabolically unhealthy are at higher risk for many types of cancer, it's not all types of cancer, but many types of cancer, we are starting to see some data that ketogenic diets may be a useful adjunct to chemotherapy for certain types of cancer. And again no one is suggesting that diet should replace chemo or replace traditional cancer treatments, but there's a good reason to think that they might be an adjunct to them and help increase how effective the treatments that we have can be. So, those are really the data that we have right now around metabolic health and cancer, but it's an area that's actively being explored. what discourages me a little bit is I see more progress in the sort of scientific literature around cancer and metabolic health than I see in the day-to-day practice around cancer.
And I don't see that oncologist, cancer doctors, as a whole are really embracing the role that metabolic health plays in the in the development of cancer and in the potential treatment of cancer. But I think that will time that will come with time. One of the aspects of this, I think, that really resonates with me, Bill is that hope, and you talked about, you had hope, basically and that was helped you through this difficult time. And another sort of unintentional theme that we've had going on the last few weeks on the podcast has been aging, well, and Aging Gracefully. And we've had a number of guests on who have improved their health dramatically late into life. And I know you work with men and women now later in life over 50 to help them improve their health. And it's oftentimes viewed that you can't do that. You can't get healthy once you're past a certain age, or it's not worth getting healthy once you're past a certain age. So what is your experience been around working with older clients? And what do you find helps them to get that hope back, that they can regain their health and they can be healthy as they age?
Bill Vogel
Right, right. I think what I mean, first of all, I start with myself as an example. do as I say kind of kind of deal and, but I have examples from one example, my favorite mother-in-law. 76 years old. She was 241 pounds, really depressed, walks around with a walker. I mean, she was one fall away, breaking her hip, and it was down, it would be downhill from there. And what I told my wife, I said, look, let's have your mother moving in with us for a month, and I'll get her on the right path. So my wife said, I won the son in law of the Year Award on that one, but her mother's a delightful person. And she did whatever I said, and to do.
So we got her on the no sugar, carbs, starch, got her got her moving around, when she first was in a high rise here in St. Louis. And my mother-in-law couldn't walk from our unit at the end of the hall to the elevator and back without being winded. After a month, she was going around the block two to three times with a with a walker. But since four months ago, she's dropped. She's actually under 200 pounds now, first time in probably 25 or 30 years.
And the best part about it for her is she went shopping for clothes recently with my wife, and she can now shop in a different section of the department store before it was the big and extra-large lady. Now she's actually shopping in the normal women's section, which is like to us, it's like yeah, but to a woman that's a huge deal. And she just so anyway, now she's optimistic about life. She's happy people never seen her so excited.
And this is years and years of being depressed. So this is I mean, she just one example of staying with the formula, doing the right things and the pounds come off, and she's actually off of three meds that she originally was on to. So, I mean, things are looking bright for her at 76. And that's, that's, that's pretty impressive.
And it was no magical formula. I'm not the great the Grand Wizard of anything here. But we it's a proven it's a proven method, and it worked for her and she's happy as a lark. She's, I'm so ecstatic about that, that she just did the things she was supposed to do. And she stayed on it. And it's, it's been terrific for she definitely added years onto her life and happy years, which is more important. there's, there's health, your health life, and here's your life expectancy, and you just don't want to live out the final years of your life, you want to live them to be healthy in a healthy manner.
And she's going to have that now, which I again, it's a lot of people look at it as a miracle, but I just think she just needed someone to guide her hold her accountable, which is really the bulk of what I do is I hold my clients accountable to a plan, stay on the plan, you'll get great results out of it. So anyway, that's a that's an example there, Phil, have, you know how it can work for people out there?
Jack Heald
Talk about this holding people accountable? How does that really work?
Bill Vogel
Okay, yep. So when I, when I bring on a new client, we, I look at their health history see where they are, look at their parents’ history, in terms of their, how long they lived, and so forth, what they're eating every day, are they exercising, are they moving around. And what I do is I put a personal plan together for each of these people. So people are starting from different point points of view, depending where they are. But I what I do is every single week, we have a meeting, typically it's on Zoom. So I coach virtually. So I have people in California, everywhere. And we get to so just so I don't I don't sell meal plans, I don't sell supplements, it just you pay me for accountability. So they know every Tuesday morning at 830 They're talking to Bill, and I better not be telling him I had couple pizzas and pasta and cereal for breakfast and all that. So they buy just me being kind of their Jiminy Cricket on their shoulder, and over overlooking them, they're always they're always thinking about that. So what I'm trying to do jack is, is work with them to develop new habits, and really change their lifestyle. Not just for three months or six months, but for the rest of their life. And so this accountability is, is really what keeps it keeps it going.
It's hard for people to do it by themselves. I was fortunate enough, I could do it by myself. But people can slip and there's nobody watching them, but themselves. And all of a sudden, all the great results they've had go south. And but if you got Bill watching you, you know you're going to be you know their way in and checking out what's going on. And I constantly talk to them about, hey let's go over every aspect of metabolic health with you and see where you are on a week-to-week basis. So it's really worked every I have.
Jack Heald
So you actually just have a whole list of things that the two of you together have agreed that the client is going to do? Yes. Or just saying okay. How do you eat? What did you weigh? How much water did you drink? What kind of exercise to get? What kind of date? It's, it's literally just kind of almost a management type of relationship? Yes, you've got a set of metrics that you're measuring against, and people just report back to the boss.
Bill Vogel
Yep, exactly. And, and people will I mean, we're human beings, people are going to slip up. I had a couple meetings this morning. And one of them said, I we had family thing. We had pizza and ice cream. And I'm like, you know what, don't go down the path of That's horrible. tomorrow's a new day, pick it up right from there. And occasionally slip ups are going to happen. And sometimes you're in a situation where you're going to someone's house for dinner and that's all they may have lasagna and that's it and you're and you got to be cordial and eat it and, but you don't let it get you down. You get back on it the next day. And that's kind of how I work.
We're not looking for 100% perfection but as close to excellence as possible is a great thing. One of the things I wanted to say to Jack was when we start with new clients, one of the things I encourage them to do is go in their house with a big Lawn and leaf bag and get rid of a lot of stuff like Doritos, potato chips, ice cream all the things that are, that are not good for you there's that temptation there, it's so easy to go in and say I'll just have a bite of ice cream and then ends up before you know what the pint is gone, or their half gallon is gone. But you gotta clean house. And it's more challenging to if you have a family and there's kids, and they're eating whatever they're eating. But it takes a lot of self-discipline is what it what it does. So,
Jack Heald
so I was going to ask you that what's what is the most common challenge or problem that your clients face? And I guess it would make sense to talk about how together you overcome that particular challenge?
Bill Vogel
Yeah. It's just, it's totally a mindset of just developing a new habit, for example, if they're eating cereal for breakfast discouraged that that's on the no-good list. But replacing that with something that's filling, like maybe it's eggs and bacon things like that, or the yogurt. So,
Jack Heald
problem is, is, is more mental than anything?
Bill Vogel
Yeah, yeah. And we're going from a society where we are right now jack to where people eat from the moment they get up to the moment they go to bed, it just be the meals plus snacks, and one of the things I tried to do is get them down to three meals, some of my clients have two meals a day. So what we try to do also, as we push that, if they're eating breakfast, we push the breakfast time back, an hour, an hour and a half, two hours in the morning. So part of the program is an intermittent fasting, or I call it eating windows. So people are eating between maybe 10 in the morning and six at night. So they get 16 hours of times that they're not eating so their, their whole body can adjust and start going after that stored fat.
And that that's, I don't like to call it fasting, just people that as a bad name sometimes. So I call it eating windows. So you're eating windows are between this time and this time. And one of the things we do too is since you're getting satiating food, is the need to snack really goes down quite a bit. So you're not eating it mid-morning, midafternoon, and so forth. So that's one of the things my favorite mother-in-law told me, she says, Bill, I'm not hungry. In midafternoon, I'm not hungry after dinner. So my clients do not eat after dinner. Period, that's one of the key times we stay away from food after dinner.
So if you're eating proteins and fat and veggies for dinner, you're going to be full, and you're not going to you're not going to be starving at 930 at night, make popcorn up or grab the Doritos bag or something like that. So yeah, so it's really changing lifestyle, and it takes time changing your habits. But if you just keep doing it and doing it, you get used to it. And at the end of the day, you're you've lost weight, you have more energy you sleep better at night. I mean, there's a whole bunch of things that come out with when there's a substantial weight loss, and my clients have anywhere from 30 pounds to 100 pounds to lose. So every everywhere in between. So everybody's at a different starting point, basically.
Dr. Philip Ovadia
And Bill, how much do you think that your background in sales comes into play? As a coach? Because it's one thing to do it for yourself. It's another thing to be able to convince others to do it to sort of sell others on the purpose and the practicality of doing it.
Bill Vogel
Yeah I'm not a doctor like you are Phil or anything like that. But what I do is in addition to our weekly meetings, I'm sending them articles. Actually, I sent them out an article on yours on heart disease today to each of my clients and actually just another plug for your book. Every one of my clients gets a copy of stay off my operating table right from the beginning. So what that means to them is that okay, it's not just this health and longevity coach saying preaching this. It's a heart surgeon, a cardiologist who's backing me up on it. So That's, that's how I get them to believe. And, and at the end of the day, it's the results, right? They, if they're not getting results, it's not working for them then that's the way it goes. But they're all-seeing results, every one of them and, but reinforcing it with articles and videos by yourself or Ken Berry and people like that, really, really makes a difference. they, it just, it backs up everything I say. So, which is real important. Yeah. And
Dr. Philip Ovadia
I think ultimately what I find, when I'm first talking to people about this, they're really not that interested in the particulars in the logistics, they're interested in the results that they're going to get, and the problems that you can help them solve. And the, the actual implementation is sort of a secondary issue for most people, you first have to convince them of the, they have to know the why for themselves, and you have to be able to relate to them that you're going to be able to help them solve these problems and reinforce their why. And then the particulars, the implementation, I think becomes an easier and a secondary issue.
Bill Vogel
And what I what I do feel to is these people took many years to get to their point where they are metabolically unhealthy, and you can't, I can't throw the kitchen sink at them and say, here's all the things you need to do. So I emphasize who getting let's do small, reasonable changes. So we develop new habits over time, and we build upon those habits, we get the successes, and we just add more, for example, a lot of my clients will start off with week one, don't eat after dinner, and walk around the block after you eat. I mean, as simple as that, for some of my clients, they don't lock at all, or they eat they gorge at night. So it may sound simple to a three here on the podcast, but for them, that's a major step but they have to develop these new habits. And once they get those down, then we start building on that by adding new things on to it slowly but surely. And it's it seems to have worked with my clients and all the reading. I do too. That's the way to do it. From what I've seen.
Jack Heald
Well, all right, a lot of stuff. I'm, I'm, I'm always fascinated with the psychological side of these kinds of changes. I'd love to hear pick, pick a client, let's keep it anonymous. Okay, worst, worst incoming, best outgoing story you've run into with, with clients. You've helped with clients.
Bill Vogel
Yeah, yep. Well in besides my mother-in-law, which is which is
Jack Heald
Pretty remarkable. How much did she lose?
Bill Vogel
She's lost. She's under 200 pounds for the first time in like 30 years. So she was 241. She's five foot nine. And she used to be taller until she got hunched over a little bit here, but she's spectacular. I mean, it's been like 10 pounds 11 pounds a month and just walking and eating better. Another example of a gentleman in my building who I'm working with, dropped about three months now 38 pounds. So he's, he's right on plan and go to the gym three times a week, but he's really religious about the cutting out the carbs. Basically eating, eating well, and just spectacular. I mean, people compliment him and like and you when you lose weight, the first place you see it is in their face. And whether it's my mother-in-law, this gentleman my building, or some of my other clients, you see it in their face initially. Wow, what happened? You look great. And but you know
Jack Heald
I want to I want to drill down a little deeper because the numbers you're describing to me are pretty significant. A calorie is roughly 35 I mean, 3500 calories is roughly a seventh of a pound. Is that right? Or is a pound? If we if that's right, if they say
Dr. Philip Ovadia
around 3500 calories,
Jack Heald
right? So if you if you if you eat it a 3500 Calorie a week deficit, you should lose a pound a week, all things being equal. And you're reporting people losing 10 and 11 and 12 pounds in a month, right? Which is several times that's 10 pounds is 35,000 calorie deficit in a month. That's 1000 calories a day deficit. Right? Are people really overeating that much? Or am I doing the math wrong?
Bill Vogel
No, I think they are. When you look at the average American is consuming 100 was 152 pounds still roughly of sugar a year. And it's not just eating Domino's with a spoon. It's mixed into the processed foods into your breads and muffins and bagels and desserts and everything. But one of the things I do on this particular program Jack is there's no calorie counting at all. Zero, we just, if you eat the right foods, and you're satiated, you're full, you're actually going to be eating less food automatically. So you're not eating all the really the garbage out there. So there's no calorie counting at all. Yeah, it's that's too tedious. And I agree,
Jack Heald
I'm just numbers are astonishing, just knowing how the math works. But I just brief story. This past month of February, Phil inspired me to go full carnivore. So I've been it's been more like 95%. But I've been tracking my macros. And I was I was eating low carb anyway. But I noticed as, as I cut out literally everything but animal products, my caloric intake was down. Not intentionally, I just, I ate what I wanted. And I felt fine. And I was I guess I was really surprised at I'm finding out that maintenance for me is about 400 calories a day less than I thought it was. Which is kind of terrifying to think about the fact that I was eating 2800 calories a week, more than I needed just to, to maintain. I guess what you're describing is that kind of experience that I've had, where you just feel better eating less. Yep,
Dr. Philip Ovadia
yeah. And as we've discussed while calories in calories out it is works in a theoretical and sort of mathematical model, we see over and over that it's not useful as a framework for people losing weight. And as a goal, it really doesn't work for people to lose weight. And the types of food that we're eating definitely affects the amount of food that we end up eating, as well as the way that our body processes that food. So it really kind of discredits the calorie and calorie out model.
Bill Vogel
Yeah one thing I wanted to mention to Jack we haven't talked about, but in the last two years with COVID, and so forth. when you look at the people, unfortunately, who have died with COVID. Basically, people don't from what I mean, I do tons of research on it, they don't die from COVID, they die with COVID. And over, I think the last number I saw was 95% of the people who died with COVID had typically three comorbidities, so they were obese, type two diabetic heart disease with a type the top three, so that the virus went at the low hanging fruit. And so it should have been a wakeup call to our country to say, hey, look who's dying from this we need to change the way we're doing things today.
And that to me, that was the real pandemic is 75% of Americans are overweight or obese. And it's, it's gotten out of control. And this, of course, happen after Ancel Keys back in the 50s, and 60s, and George McGovern and all this stuff about low fat, no fat, and in the end, we're all getting fatter as a country. And but you look at it at COVID. And it's like, just to be a wakeup call, folks. Look at the people who are suffering. And if COVID had happened 50 years ago, when people were more slender, we wouldn't have had as many people dying because more people were metabolically healthy compared to now. So that's one of the key things and money quote right there.
In my practice here with my clients is that's if this something like this comes back again, you want to be prepared. Kind of like I was prepared unknowingly for my cancer. I lost that way. Not knowing that a cancer would come but luckily, I had it off. And that made the whole difference in the world. I mean, if I was still to 97, I could have been a casualty from COVID. Very easily. I mean, that could have happened. So if you're keeping yourself in optimal health, I think you got a real great shot at beating most everything out there. And that again, that should be the big wake up call. But the media doesn't want to talk about that. So well, that's why we're here.
Jack Heald
Yeah, exactly.
Dr. Philip Ovadia
And as hard as I search, I am yet to find something that you were less well prepared for or worse off, facing, if you are metabolically healthy than if you are not metabolically healthy. So I think that's very well said that we none of us really know what's in store for us. But I'm pretty confident telling the patients that I work with, and the people that I interact with that whatever is going to come, you're going to come through it better if you are metabolically healthy than if you. Yep.
Jack Heald
Well, it's a good place to put a bow on the whole thing that kind of ties it up and makes it work. Yep. Yeah, Bill, folks want to work with you. How do they do so how do we get ahold of you talk to you find out if you're the right fit for them as a as a coach?
Bill Vogel
Sure. My I have a website. It's www.my50plushealth.com. And I live in St. Petersburg, Florida. And typically what I do Jack is if people are interested, I do a 20-minute consultation free call, just to kind of outline how the program works and see if it's something for them. potentially, and I work typically on a six-month program.
It's taken these people typically years to get to where they are. So there's no magical pill or formula that's gonna convert you in two weeks. So it is again, it takes time to change the habits and the lifestyle and but once you get on that really almost miracles can happen for you. So it's but that's basically the way I work. And again, I work virtually so people all over the country I can be talking to. And I basically work almost, I don't work crazy hours, seven days a week, but I have client calls seven days a week. So whatever, whatever works for them after work, before work, lunchtime, it, it seems to work.
The other thing I'm also going to be starting soon is a working more with on a corporate level. So going on corporate wellness programs. So I'm going to be adding that into my individual one on ones of going into companies from an informational point of view. And then maybe small groups or one on ones from those but there's a big emphasis now on more corporate wellness adding more people are it's a hard-to-get people now.
And they want their clients, their employees to stay stick around. And you're and by the fact that as a corporate wellness program, looking out for them, what's best for them not just doing their jobs, but keeping them healthy, keeping their families healthy, too. So that's gonna be a part two that I'm going to be starting pretty shortly.
Jack Heald
All right, good deal. Well, this has been the stay off my operating table podcast with Bill Vogel, thanks for being with us. And you can reach Gil, we talked about that. And that will be in the show notes as well. And of course, Dr. Phillip Ovadia. Phil, I'm the one who always does this. But I want you to tell people how to get a hold of you this time.
Dr. Philip Ovadia
Everything's at WWW dot Ovadia Heart Health.com. And you can follow me on Twitter at I fix hearts.
Jack Heald
I've been following Dr. Phil - our Dr. Phil - I've been following Dr. O on Twitter for well over a year. And it's just it's inspiring. It's good stuff, so I highly recommend it. Alright, well for Bill Vogel and Phil Ovadia. I'm Jack Heald. We'll talk to you next time.