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Come on to another episode of start if They'll Say. And today I am co hosting again with Anthony and we're welcoming under pallicuper Money today to our podcast. And why don't you cut us into what your journeys be? Then a bit about yourself.
Thank you so much for having me today.
Well, okay, so in brief, I come from a math and computer science background. So I did my undergrad at Indian instru Science, Banglore, which is a four year like Pure Sciences program. Typically the journey of somebody who goes to a university like that at Pure Sciences University is to.
Do a PhD.
Nineteen nine percent of the class that I graduated with is actively doing a PhD right now. So yeah, so I come from a very research oriented background.
And primarily math.
In fact, when I joined university, wanted to be a theoretical physicist and a year and a half entered it. You realize the field is so saturated. The number of like seismic breakthroughs happening in recent times. I think the last size with breakthrough maybe was like forty years ago. The field is very saturated, and so I quickly shifted focus over to math because my professor told me, if you join math, you can do anything later in life.
It can be like the latest Nobel Prize in chemistry went into like computational analysis of proteins or something like that.
So like math takes you, makes you do anything.
So yeah, So when I realized theoretical physics may maybe not right for me, I quickly pivoted over to math and computer science, and that's where my journey kind of starts. So I graduated in the year twenty twenty. That's the same year that COVID hit. So I was getting ready to start applying for different PhD programs follow the same
part as my classmates. But that's the year you realize, or even if I do join a good PhD program, the first year year and a half is going to be all online and you're not going to be getting the full experience out of it. So I spoke to my professor and asked him, Hey, I'm a little unsure
about this thing. You know, I'm going to be spending the next five six years of my life pursuing a PhD. And if the first year is going to be all online, and if that's how it starts, I'm not sure I'm going to be too enthusiastic about following up on this. And so he tells me, why do you even want to do a PhD in the first place?
As somebody who's done a PhD.
Let me ask you this, do you want to spend five years of your crime, which is the twenties of your life, marginally increasing the body of knowledge out there?
And that kind of hit me, like, damn, that is what a PhD is.
You're spending five years of your prime marginal the body of knowledge out there.
And yeah, maybe one out of like like.
Ten thousand PhDs might be something substantial and spectacle, but you know, it's it's you never know what where you're going to end up. So that made me pause and thin for a bed, and I decided, Hey, let me just take a year and decide what I want to do, and in this year, after this year, if my interests will lie in research, then maybe I'm going to go ahead with my pH d program. But let me just go into it with all kuns of blazing. Make sure I'm properly motivated to get.
Into this thing.
So I took a year, and in that year, we were all stuck indoors, and it did kind of open up a little bit. But every establishment that you went to, like you go to a movie theater, the first thing
they're going to ask you is your phone number. For the sake of I don't know if you remember this, but there was this idea of contact tracing back then, wherein wherever anybody went to, their phone number had to be collected because if COVID kind of started spreading, use those owe numbers to kind of create a map and figure out how to a bit.
Like.
I don't think it worked at all, because you know what happened happened, But every establishment started collecting your phone number, and the excuse was contact sharing. Hey, we have to do contact sharding. You come to you've come to a restaurant, let's get your number. You've come to a grocery shop, let's get your number. So I was like, hey, look now they're collecting my number because of the sake of contact racing. But I bet you a year from now
when COVID's gone. This practice isn't going to stop. And that's exactly what happened. Once these businesses realize the tremendous benefit of having that piece of identify for you, they're never going to stop. So I don't know what the state is in the US, but in India, every single establishment that you go to kind of asks for from buying groceries to getting a cup of coffee. Now there's this new trend of them making you download and app
every time you go to a different establishment. And it turns out, even for like a like a five percent discount, Indians are super happy giving out the number. And so I just in that period of time, I just felt like, hey, look, this is not healthy at all. It is not healthy that everything we do online and offline gets aggregated around one single identifier. Plus that's also the main identifier that they can use to target stuff at you, call you, bother view spam you.
So we just figured out, we just asked ourselves, can we figure out a way that.
People can connect and communicate, maybe connect with businesses, connect with other people without having to share any sort of personal identifiers for themselves like a phone number or an email idea or anything like that. And so the first idea that you approached is maybe we'll create something like a virtual identifier, something that's not so sensitive that people can share, in which case they don't have to worry
about their primary identify, their phone number, being exposed. But the problem there is the problem with any sort of contact info. Once you have a unique personal identifier for a person, even if that's a virtual identifier or something more concrete like a phone number, they can be linked with each For example, if WhatsApp comes out with WhatsApp user names, your WhatsApp user name can be linked back to your phone number.
So it's only as good as.
The first exposure event where it gets linked back to your original identity. And all contact info has this issue. If I give you my contact info, you now have it. There's no way for me to take it back. Plus I don't get to control who you then share it with, Like I can't stop you from sharing it with Anthony, I can't stop you from selling it to three thousand other people. So the fundamental nature of contact info, any contact info.
Is that.
You have no control over it. You can't take it back, you can't control who it spreads to you can't control the data that gets aggregated aroound it. So any true solution here for this problem would mean that we would have to create something that does not use any sort of contact info. And that kind of ignited that the math brain in me kind of trying to figure out a.
Good cryptographic solution to this huge privacy problem. And that's the birth of our company numberless.
What we do is we build in NERDS speak, we build authenticated identified less communication protocols. What that means is I can connect with you, you can connect with me, but there's no contact in for identify it ever exchanged. So like we're creating a world where you are in complete control of who we are connected to, how much access they have to you, and whether or not they can connect you with other people, and none of your personal infoy is ever exposed.
And yeah, that's our journey so far.
It's incredible.
You've definitely scared me off of PhDs.
Yea, that is very true.
Right, Like most places, we are adding our phone numbers for any sort of accounts, discounts, whatever it is.
It's a very easy transaction to do.
And you're right, we forget and or are these sensitized about it's just a phone number, right, but there's a whole lot of information that's connected to us.
So that's a brilliant, brilliant idea of that. Sorry, Anthony, I know you.
Were asking question all good, so so a rather brilliant story, right. I mean, every every founder goes through that pain point before you say okay, I mean this is a pain point worth solving for, So thanks for sharing that. I mean, having spoken to you for an hour or so, I mean that that part didn't come out, so it's it's
it's a good learning. So based off of that, what what made you decide saying okay, I mean you have number less, right, I mean, this is the way you want to solve Did you look for any existing technology that might have existed for you to take and piece it together to solve it? Because I mean the reason I ask is you've also created a brand new protocol called the port protocol as part of number less.
Right.
I mean what so in a way, you're kind of starting from scratch from the ground floor, if you will, right, I mean, why why did you decide that you needed a brand new protocol despite being so many other protocols available.
Well, I think in this space, I don't think there's a lot of protocols available. I think most of the communication and authentication protocols out there rely on every individual having a career public Even if we go web direction, your public identifier is your public key, in your public in your key are it's a publicKey, that's your identifier, So you still have a unique public identifier that's exposed
to everybody else. So if the problem that we're trying to solve for is data aggregation and stopping people from aggregating data around the central identifier, I don't think there's been a lot of protocols developed to kind of solve that. So I think in that way, we were new and I couldn't find too many examples of good protocols. There are a couple of them out there, but just the fact that they haven't been, you know, used enough, is kind of an indicator that maybe the protocols not sound.
So that's what made us like reluctant to piggyback on somebody else's protocol and maybe build our own protocol with our own set of proofs that it is secure and reliable.
Okay, Okay, that makes sense, and I mean just fresh out of college in your case, right, I mean obviously you said, I mean a lot of this happened during the COVID time, but I mean, given that you were math and science major, I mean, this is a huge undertaking, right, especially for someone I mean who spent the year thinking about what you did. You're also thinking about, Okay, how are you going to you know, make ends meet? And you jump into something so challenging, but at the same time,
I mean, the world needs this. What are some of those things that spurred you on and pull together or write people to kind of bring numberless together?
Well, you're right, absolutely I had to make ends meet. But thankfully, because it was COVID, one of the advantages is you could just crash with your parents, and in fact, they wanted you to live with them because they knew you were saved and secure and all that. So I didn't have to worry about rent, I don't have to worry about food.
I had no expenses at all, so there was no financial pressures per se, so I could pursue things that did not make sense in the movement.
Plus, plenty of my friends were stuck at home to all itching to do something can't get out, can't do something out there, so they were all stuck at home.
So I was really.
Lucky that I found my co founder, who's who I've known my entire life. So he was a University of frount, a computer science guy, and he was also he was close to his final year of university, again similar to me, and he was also stuck at home.
And it made a good team. I came with my.
Math background so I could back up the theoretical foundations of it, and he, with his computer science background, could help me with the implementation of these protocols. So a team was born and we spent about six to eight months developing these protocols. And at that point COVID had kind of lifted, but we had this MVP kind of not you. I wouldn't even call it an MVP. It's just proof of technology, proof that it can be done.
The first what we realized happened the first thing. West time we suggested something like this, people thought, hey, can this even be done? And so our first step was to just show people that, yes, it can be done. And so once we had something to show that it can be done, such a technology is viable, then we Hey, look, we have to raise more resources. We have to raise more funding. So that's when we started shopping around and
we met a lot of people. We showed this too, and the people who found it who were extremely supportive and could see kind of the vision behind it where folks at Catamounsers and so we raised our seed round of financing with them, and then we had a lot more resources to kind of get an office higher, more people, put the product together in a more professional way, improve the user experience. All of that improved some marketing efforts,
et cetera. But yeah, now that's where we are. We were in the middle of it are product port launched a couple of weeks ago and we're getting good users growth so far.
That's great. Congratulations with that.
I really appreciate, right because right now with privacy, you're right, most of the effort or attention goes to how can we protect that unique identifier? But you're actually looking at like how can I refuse a situation where you need to aggregate it? So now like you know you have all of this done in future, this is online, how does that experience look like going back into the movie theater saying I'm not going to give you the number.
What does that look like?
Well, yeah, so, because the protocol hasn't spread enough yet, I still can't go to a business and say, hey, I'm not going to give you my so right now.
The practice is I just.
Tell them I don't so they'd excuse.
Now, the brilliant excuse of getting my number is them.
Saying, we're going green and so we don't want to print out an actual movie ticket or a receipt. We'd like, just send it to your raft phone, and that's why we need your number. I'm like, that's okay. I don't mind a little bit of global warming if you can print a ticket for me. So I just asked them to print a physical ticket. Now, same thing with grocery stores.
I don't mind a physical receipt. But yeah, But the plan is we think a lot of businesses are actually losing out on quality customers by taking their phone number. Imagine the last time you encountered a website and you wanted to know a little bit more about the service they provided, the product they sell, and you know, you opened up their chat pot or you opened up their contact page. The first thing you saw was they're asking
for your number of personal information. How many of those times where you turned off by that and you said, hey, it's not worth me putting in so much of my personal information just to know a little bit of information about that. So I think businesses are actually losing out on their best customers because they're asking for this information. Because they're best customers people who are affluent and reasonably intellectual. These people are people who would be super turned off
by giving away the personal information. So what we're trying to do going forward is set up small pilot programs where we can actually make the case improve the case that hey, you will actually increase your net lead creation, and you can you will actually increase the number of customers onward just by not asking for their personal info. And we were in the process of setting those experiments up. It's still going to be a couple of weeks since
until we set it up. But yeah, if those experiments go well in a couple of years from now, I would love to go to a movie theater and not give my number.
More power more power to that, right, because especially right coming up, like you said, right, intellectual afflent doesn't matter. We also have protective population, right, Senior citizens' kids that are coming into the space, I would love to have a mechanism in place that protects them from giving out that information, which.
Is going to be a huge thing. Right Yeah, that's the.
Point eventually for a lot of scams too. So that's a really impa.
Think about AI. Think about the other side of AI. Look, AI is only so powerful because of the data you feet into it. And right now there's a lot of data available because all of this data has been aggregated around our personal identifiers. And right now, even though AI is proceeding at a super good pace, the worst it can do is still not that bad. The worst it can do is like sell us on some stuff, not
just to do this or that. But it's going to get even more sophisticated and complex, and I don't think it's safe for us to be so vulnerable too. AI is going bad. Think about it right now. The worst thing you get is a spam or scam call. You can most of the time you can tell something as a scam that some of these calls and spam you can easily identify spam, but only because most of these spam calls are other humans on the other end trying to orchestrate it.
But as AI gets more and more sophisticated, these cams are going to be harder and harder to recognize, and it's going to be very hard to continue a communication system where everybody.
Is so accessible to everybody else. It's not hard for people to get my phone number. My phone number is published online. They just have to do a little bit of googleg or the first business I have to give my phone number two, they can just scrape my phone number of that business.
So it's going to be very easy for AIR to reach me.
Plus, all this data aggregated around the phone numbers is going to make it very easy for AA to use that channel of communication into me to make me do anything. So I think going into this AI era, we have to recognize the flip side of data aggregation and try to make sure we're not just numbered sheep in the face of AI. And there's some level of individual human protection.
That makes sense on RUTH So especially in the in the world of AI. Right, I mean, we we just can't be feeding into that big machine.
Yeah.
Right, So let's let's talk a little bit more about the technology itself, or maybe let's just speak to the poor tap itself. Right, So if I understand right, Let's say you and I want to connect on it. Let's say we meet at an event and we want to stay in touch. You show me both of us download the poor tap, You show me a QR code of starts, I scan it, and you and I get connected. And let's say tomorrow you don't want to keep in touch
with me, or you just want to lose me. I mean you can just say, you know, lose Anthony or whatnot, and you know I can never ever get in touch with you, right, I mean, that's certainly, at least in the face of it, that's what I've seen happening.
Right.
First of all, I mean you can validate me if that's right. But I mean, and secondly, maybe just for the audience, I mean, just just tell a little bit about how port works, what are some of the use cases that people can use port for? And then maybe once you're done with this, let's say phase zero or phase one. I mean, what's your vision with quote if you can talk about that a little bit lbs so.
Sure sounds good support.
The way we designed port is we want a port to work in any situation that a phone number would work. So the central idea behind the port app are these instruments called ports.
So typically when we.
Want to connect with somebody, the connection instrument that we use would be a phone number or an email ID or a username. So the connection instrument in the port product port app is something called a port. Now, the difference between a port and a phone number is a port is not a unique identifier ToView. A port is a piece of single use cryptographic information. It can be
used to form a secure, intern encrypted connection. So and that port so that information can be put into a QR code, It can be put into a link, It can be moved through NFC, so you can have to phones touch each other and that information can get exchanged. But basically a port is the information, not the modality itself, like a QR code or a link. So so typically if somebody were to meet face to face conventionally, they
would share exchange phone numbers. Here, you would put the port into a QR code, show that QR code, the other person's can sit and you're connected, as simple as that. And once the connection forms, the port itself and the information in it becomes unusable even to attackers, even to anybody else. So now basically on the port app, you've basically created this connection and turn encrypted secure connection.
I know it is you on the other end.
You know it's me on the other end, but there's no phone number, there's no identify involved. So if I want to stop talking to you, or if you start bothering me and I don't want to talk to you anymore, I can just disconnect, kill the connection and walk away. And because there's no identify it for me, for you to like spam back or target back, I don't have to worry about unnecessary follow ons or unncessary spam, unncessary unwanted things.
All of that stuff.
Similarly, if I met you online or LinkedIn something like that, and typically I would exchange my phone number with you, and unlets say LinkedIn chat or something like that, you can send a port. I can send a port to you as a as a simple link, you click on it, we're connected. The third way people connect with the phone number is maybe I want to connect you with somebody else and I share your phone umber with somebody else.
In such a situation, you can I can basically share a port that connects to you to somebody else only if you allow it, so you are in control, so only you can control who I can connect you with, and as usual, you can take back. It's reversible, unlike
giving away a phone number, which is not reversible. A port is completely reversible, so you can disconnect whenever and walk away, and you have complete understanding of where every connection came from, whether it's face to face where you'll know if somebody connects you with somebody else, you know exactly how that connection came to be because you know, hey, this connection is via Anthony Prakash, So there is I trust this connection because I trust the person who connected
me with this person. Yeah, so basically any situation you would use a phone number, you can use a port. Port's work offline as well. So if you're on a train you have no internet access, you can still create a port and show it to the other person and connect.
So yeah, that's basically how ports work. Their piece of cryptographic information that need to be exchanged to form a connection, and you can do it in any situation that you would be exchanging a phone.
So under the whole, is there some sort of decentralization or I mean, what is there a It.
Is highly decentralized in the sense that if you download the Portact, the first thing you'll notice is there's no account creation process, so there's no submitting an email or submitting a phone number, waiting for an otp adding a password.
None of that exists.
You just download the app, enter your name, and you're in, and this name never gets sent to us our servers, so in fact, our servers basically don't see any identifying information about you. So even if let's say our services are preached in any way, the worst that can be done is maybe the service is down for a couple of hours until we get it back up again, but
they can't get to know any information about you. Plenty of other platforms, even let's say something like WhatsApp, which claims to be into and encrypted, if their servers are compromised, they might not be able to get the message data, but they'll still be attackers with which phone numbers spoke to, which other phone number at what frequency, what your social graph is, so they can figure out who your wife is, who your girlfriend is, who your son is.
All of that stuff can be figured out very easily just by understanding.
Yeah, yeah, so the metadata is almost no metadata is available on the Port servers that does not make sense to any attacker and cannot be traced back to the original person.
So in that sense, we're.
Highly decentralized in that only the people and the people that they're speaking to know what needs to be known to speak with each other, and our serversion don't even know your name. So we've made sure we've taken every effort to ensure that people's individual privacy is respected and preserved.
I wanted to dig into that, right, So you're right, privacy, right, re issue.
But then on on.
The alongside, that is also the integrity or the authenticity of the human behind it.
So how's that guarded?
Like you mentioned right, there's no account creation, there's not personal information.
So are you all already thinking about those protective mechanisms to be in place but tomorrow or like, these are not accounts people create, So.
Even if a couple of fake accounts are created, what's the damage they can do? In the sense that because because of how Port works, there's no spam that's even possible. So I can never reach you if you don't want to be reached, because there's no identifyer that I can reach you at So even if somebody were to create a bunch of fake accounts, who would they connect to is the question? Who would they bother? Who would they spam, which itself is impossible. So the safeguard in port is
every connection involves implicit consent. When I'm meeting you face to face and connecting with you, I'm consciously showing a port, You're consciously scanning it, and that's.
How the connection forms.
So you know me on the other side is authentic and you on the other side is an authentic person. If I were meeting you on LinkedIn and there I would like I send you a link, then you're determined by.
The authenticity of LinkedIn, Like you have to.
Be sure that the person on the other side of your LinkedIn chat is real. So that's something that the user has to be a little aware of. And contact sharing, you know that the person, like I know I've connected with Anthony and I know he's real, and if he connects me with somebody else, I know that it's him who connected me with somebody else. So I know you have to be real as well, because I trust Anthony.
So every connection involves some level of implicit consent, and because of that the risk of connecting with the fake profile or somebody bad is very low compared to conventional platforms, where the risk is huge. Tons of scamps happen today, where some random number reaches out to you claiming to
be your long lost friend, blah blah blah. And yeah, so all of that stuff can never happen because spamming essentially becomes impossible on port, So you're never reached out to by somebody you don't want to talk to.
That's actually great, it's getting some of those human connections.
Back, right, Yeah, yeah, In simple terms, I was going to say, there's a handshake, firm handshake that needs to happen before the you know, you start talking from A to B R B two A right, without which it doesn't get initiated. So enough of technical stuff. Let's talk a little bit about the CEO, right. I mean, so here, you're a math guy. You're a science guy, and somebody who wanted to do PhD but in a way COVID forced you to start a company, and obviously you love
your science and our math. I mean, so between abin of who is your CTO and yourself and you guys came together, how did you guys choose and pick saying oh you've got to be CEO versus CTO.
I mean, how did that come? Aback? I think it was kind of.
Because I was the one who approached Ubina and said, hey, here's what I'm doing, here's the product I have in mind, here's the protocol I have in mind. Kind of like because I came up with the proposition, I think that's kind of I would trust me. I would love for the equation we flipp. I would love to just be the CEO all day. It's not fun being apart from the like the two seconds of prior do you get from calling yourself CEO? Other than that, just not a
fun journey. Eighty percent of the jobs fun. But most of the fun I get is out of working on the tech. So yes, we just became because he was better at me than on the tech stuff, and I came to him with the idea.
So I think that's how I fill in place.
You're not alone, because I mean I've come across so many startups where it's it's deeply technical, right, I mean, and both the founders are all the three founders are all technical. I mean, they just want to move away from the CEO of stuff and give it to somebody else. They'd rather be coding twenty four to seven or work on infrastructure twenty four to seven than do with the day to day stuff. So, but having been the CEO, how is the journey of benefit? I mean, orould you
do this again? I mean, what are the learnings that you've told yourself saying okay, these are things? Is that because? I mean, right now people are dependent on you. You know, you've raised around of funding. I saw, you have a wonderful team around you. You've got to build a culture. There's so much more than you just thinking about Porte and what Porte can do. I mean, you've got to drive a company and build something right, I mean, how
does how has that evolved for you? And how's that journey been for you?
I think it's it's been kind of difficult in the sense that I think I was kind of pushed into the defend in terms of building a team and all of that, so I had to learn how to swim. So that's that's, in a nutshell, that's how it's been. We've made plenty of mistakes in hiring people, plenty of mistakes in not delegating work properly. We've made a lot of mistakes in terms of not prioritizing your work properly and kind of getting delayed. So it's been like like
learning the hard ware kind of thing. So it took us. It took us six months to kind of be comfortable in issues and make those mistakes and correct ourselves based on those mistakes. So now I have a good team, but it took us like ten months to build that team properly. Plenty of people went, came and went, and you know, you never understand how good somebody is until you work with them for a couple of months. But in case of an early stage startup, you only have a.
Couple of months to work on something otherwise your runway is going to run out.
So there's a lot of challenges. But I think the best learning for me is to try and figure out how to trust your people. And maybe they don't get it in a day, but if you keep spoon feeding them, they wonn't expect that you will do it eventually, So you just have to like delegate something and trust them to see through.
If they don't see through, then you know.
Hey, if you're not able to delegate something of this level of complex deed to your primary engineer. You know, maybe they might not be best suited for that, but if you cannot delegate properly, you cannot basically start building.
And that's where I've struggled the most.
And now I think over the last month two months, I think I've become better at delegating stuff. Hopefully a month from now, I would like to be completely out of tech and just focusing on growth and technology adoption. Even though I would miss tech like crazy, I think that's where I should be given my role in the company.
Right now, you can secretly code in the night and do the would SEEO job.
That was the maturity of now getting into the CEO, right you already acknowledge where you need to focus and let others pick up some of that burdens.
So that's me great.
Yeah, and given that this is your first rodeo so to speak on it right after college, I mean, how did how did your family take it? How did your parents react saying, hey, you're not going to go work in in a Google or a Microsoft instead of going to work on a protocol. How did your family react?
Being an only child, I think.
It's uh, it's it's I think they've been incredibly supportive.
Obviously, they get stressed out quite a bit. They're like they see me working myself and they're like, how are you working? Like how are your life?
Sometimes literally ask me how for the first time in my life, I'm getting scolded for working too much. All through college is like study study, you're not working hard enough. You have to go back and study and do that stuff.
This stuff. Now I'm getting big lectures for working myself with death and like take a break, do this, do that. So I think.
They kind of see that this is kind of like I'm in the zone right now. I'm kind of working on something that I believe in. I think that makes them happy, and so they've been incredibly supportive, been blessed that way. But yeah, they're they're not comfortable watching me work very long hours and getting down healthy habits like not eating, skipping meals.
That stuff is something that bothers them more than anything else. Yeah. Good, Really, No.
I was gonna say, I'm like they might.
That would have been an incredible conversation explaining them this concept because I'm sure right like like finally we've mastered all these data clients and information and our communications work just fine, and you're going to come in and do the disruption. I don't know how that conversation would have gone, but I'm glad that they're supportive because they see the passion.
That's yeah. So what's happened now is so they're all poor users. Now, my parents, my family, we have poor groups and poor chats. So what's happened is they know if I get a message on board, I'm kind of obligated to reply to improve adoption. And so now the frequent see at which I get messages from them has just skyrocketed, like hey, what time did you sleep last night?
Did you eat that stuff?
And and I kind of have to reply because they do this annoying thing where if I don't reply to them quick enough, they kind of text me on WhatsApp or signal or something like that.
They know which buttons to push, ess, you know exactly, Yeah, after all your parents, all right, so let's before before we before we go. Uh, this is a great start for you guys, And you know, it's a it's a universal problem, right, not just in India where you know, to your point, people are collecting their your phone numbers for at every possible junction. But privacy is just obviously much more than phone numbers, right, Uh, you you're I
think you would admit that. I mean, you're barely scratching the surface with what trying to do with just sport. But whether nonetheless as a company number lesson or the port protocol, what's your like your long term vision that you have in here?
So the long term vision is I like to think of the roadside vendor in in India. So somebody selling you, let's say fruit on a roadside cart. All they care about is you paying them something, and all you care about is getting fruit from them. So the transaction is really simple now the way the world is each transaction. Let's say I want to buy fruit online. The transaction is I give them all this information about me, including where I lived, to my phone number, to all this
information attached to my phone number. I give them my biodata just to get buy something from them.
So same thing with communication, just to connect with somebody.
In the olden days, it was like you mentioned a firm handshake, Anthony, in the olden days, it literally was a firm handshake. I introduced myself as a neither. You introduce yourself as Anthony firm handscheck, and we're connected. Now, I give you so much information about myself in the sense of giving you my phone numit just to connect with you. So the vision is to kind of regress human nature a little bit, to make our digital transactions simpler,
almost as simple as our physical transactions. So with numberless, I think that is something that's achievable. We can make connecting some things seem very similar to a firm handshake, in that I know your name, you know my name. We're connected, We have a communication channel and that's about it. You don't know anything else. And I want to expand that into other digital places where things become simpler, the transactions become simpler, as simple as these roadside when transactions.
So that's where the broader vision is.
But I know that's far away, and I know that's a hard problem to solve. Sometimes market forces are in your direction, sometimes they're not. But like you said, I think it's like my professor said in your twenty is just do something crazy, work on a crazy problem or scarce scenario, don't solve it, and then you can do something safer.
So I just want to try it, try my hand at it.
Okay, that's great.
So for people who are listening to the podcast, investors or anyone, what can they do for you?
If you have an ask out there, check.
Out Pard, try out Poard. Become a user who is not actively sharing their personal information everywhere. Just start with a good personal digital hygiene.
That's the most you can do for us at this point, a couple of months from now, if you believe in this movement, if you believe in the technology that we're building, and we're a couple of months from now, we're planning on raising more resources to kind of put this vision at play. That's when I think we would be raising more resource in terms of not just money, but connection and send doors to be open for us, and there they can help us a little bit as well.
But first, just download port see if this makes sense to you, to you as a user.
That's all right, Anthony anything or.
Thanks so much, honey for jumping on on a holiday in India. So happy sort as they say. So, we'll speak to you soon in good luck with everything you do, and to you and your team for number less in Port and we'll be sure to publish all these details on the podcast as well. Thanks any good luck to you guys as well. I've been listening to some of your content.
I've been doing a great job, so I'm looking forward more content coming up. I just subspect to you guys, so I'm just going to keep seeing your content now.
Yes, weekly, okay, perfect, See you guys.
Bye Ba