Welcome to StartupRed.io, your podcast and YouTube blog covering the German startup scene with news, interviews, and live events. Hello and welcome everybody. This is Joe from StartupRed.io, your startup podcast, YouTube blog, and internet radio station from Germany, Austria, and Switzerland, bringing you today, ta-da, another entrepreneur here who has a very, very interesting story to tell from the big city of Wildau. Am I right, Alex?
You're completely right, Joe. You guys have been located in Berlin. I've seen registered there 2019. How did you move out to Wildau? So whenever you do big hardware, you need a lot of space. And Berlin is a crowded, packed city, and you wouldn't find that kind of location, a workshop in the city center. Hence, we had to move outside the city, and Brandenburg just has a lot of good places, conveniently located, and also cheaper rent, which is not something you should give as easily as a
low-liquidity startup. I see. Given the picture, most people will only listen to this as an audio podcast or listen to the radio station. But the people who are not seeing this, we may tell that you have a very big warehouse in the background. Yes. So I'm sitting in one of our warehouses. We have two. This one is 1,300 square meters. And this is where we have portly storage, but also the R&D facility. So we are developing our chargers here.
And this is also the space we need. We have forklift. We have a crane. We have doors that are eligible for trucks to come in and offload. So this is really something that you wouldn't expect from a regular startup, but rather from a big hardware producing company. A lot of toys for the good boys. 1,200 square meter for our American audience, that's almost 13,000 square feet. Now we got the conversion out of the way. Maybe I had a little help from the internet.
Alex, we may tell our audience that this is the first interview we are doing with the startup that at the time of the recording has been officially insolvent. But you guys have been rescued. It's already, as we say in Germany, in trocken and tusha. And so it's already a sealed deal. But we have to wait a little bit for the publication of this interview, around two weeks until it becomes official.
That will be an interesting part of the story. But let us first talk a little bit about you, because you are a pretty interesting person. Because, as always, we link your LinkedIn profile here. I've seen a lot of Shanghai in your CV pretty early on. How did this happen? So I was lucky enough to be born to a family that moved a lot internationally and also brought to China. So I spent my high school years in Shanghai.
And this is a time or let's say at that age between 14 and 18 is something where you make a lot of memories and also where your personality gets shaped. And this is growing up internationally and seeing this dynamics of the Chinese market back in the day. This was something that shaped me and also had a left a pretty deep impression on what can be done if you have the will, if you have the means also to start something big and you can dream big and your dreams may also come true.
So this is something that Shanghai and China, that dynamic of the market really left in me. I'm wondering, because we talked before about different experiences from being in China, did you bring like any habits from China with you? For example, preferring tea over coffee or something? For me personally, it was that I really love hot pot. Fortunately, there's a restaurant here in Frankfurt. Yeah, hot pot, I mean, the cuisine, definitely. I cook Chinese at home.
This is something I still love. And I think something in business, a habit is I always take business cards with two hands. This is something I still do because that is a polite way in Asia to do so, hand over and accepting business cards. This is what I still do. I see. I see. Uh-huh. So there is a lot of interesting stuff about you. We have been admitting to each other that we have the usual suspects in our CV. For example, I see...
Working for Munich Re, working for Big Four Consultancy, working at Bosch, and then getting into an association as project manager, and then getting more into renewable energy and to the founding of Me Energy here in January 2018. Can you take us through this journey, through this ride? Yeah, sure. So during my studies, I was always eager to start something.
And there's also a connection to China because one of the first ventures I did on my own was Fuyu Baobei, which translates to honey or, let's say, my small precious baby, sort of. This is something that I started on, which was an export for milk, powder and baby products. So I levered my connection already even early in my study days because I always wanted to be independent. I wanted to make my own money, not rely on my parents. This was a main driver also in my studies.
And this was fairly successful. It was sort of from just a scandal that was back in the day that China had problems having with milk powder. And there was a scandal that pesticides were found. and hence there was a market all of a sudden for European and American milk powder that was now demanded in China. So this seized the opportunity and started this business together with friends I still had in China. And this was the first, let's say, foot I set into the entrepreneurial space.
It was only me in the beginning, then later on I hired two students, so it was nothing big, but still I could make a living And it felt good to have to earn your own money and be independent in that sense. At the same time, I mean, I'm a German, and Germans, especially your family, tend to be rather conservative. So they push you towards getting a real job. And real job in German, translated from German, means, okay, go into a big company, have a secure job.
And this is what, especially my dad, was always, let's say, setting or having the path laid out for me. This is what you should do, son. So that's what I also tried. I mean, I was always, okay, I thought, okay, I don't know everything by now. Why not try? I'm still young. So I tried working at KPMG, one of the big fours, and I worked in M&A, which was an interesting time, also intense, learned a lot, so really steep learning curve.
But I figured out, okay, this is not something I could see myself doing for a long time. And so I stepped foot into another space. So tried out, okay, something completely different. And that was going into the automotive industry, working at Bosch. So this was, for me, something that was not motivated monetarily, but something that was also motivated in the sense that let's try out the big enterprise. Let's try out a secure job.
Let's try out shaping something bigger, shaping something that is the transition to sustainable mobility, because that was a time when e-mobility was really in the cradle. Where Tesla had his first Roadster just released, BMW had his i3. So this was something that was also pushing me and said, okay, there is something new on the horizon coming. That's something where I see, okay, I could also, I can be part of this transition.
And one of the major players in this transition is Bosch. It's a large automotive supplier, so I had good access to this, the company, and hence said, okay, let's work in R&D at the forefront of development of this new technology. And so I did battery and fuel cell research. Bosch. Um, this was, um, established, I mean, the work was, was satisfying and also, uh, learning so much about this technology.
However, being such a small wheel in such a large organization, such a large machinery, that was something that was frustrating to me. But having that access or having access to that technology can also, this sparks a lot of creative thinking because you're surrounded by a lot of brilliant minds. You're surrounded with a lot of opportunities that just lie around on the floor in such a big organization and a lot of free time to do so, to think about this.
And this is also, let's say, the starting point where me energy or the thinking about me energy also originated is at the time at Bosch, where I also had my various experiences with e-mobility and the technology behind. You've been saying great ideas lying around on the floor in big companies. I would be personally, if I would be an executive, very interested how to harvest those ideas, but that'll be a completely different recording here.
Let's go a little bit to the company, the energy with a very unique concept. Was there like a specific moment or challenge in your career that made you think, you know what, the world really needs that? Bioethanol-powered fast chargers. Can you tell, first, we may tell the audience what your product is and then how you got this spark. Okay, so what we developed at Mee Energy or what we developed and now we are having in the market is off-grid fast charging stations.
So a charging station that produces its own electricity from bioethanol. So a renewable, sustainable energy carrier that is liquid, that can be sourced literally anywhere in the globe, and that is always refilled into the stations. We always have the means, independent of where you are, independent of any infrastructure to fast charge any kind of vehicle.
And this is especially used in areas where the power grid is not strong enough to support fast charging, because fast charging is a real constraint on the grid. Just to give the audience a bit of an idea. So you can charge one Tesla or you can power a 20 story building. It's about the same amount of energy you use for this process.
So if you then think about charging stations as 20-story buildings, you have the sort of a picture of how much the power grid has to handle in the future and what a charging park actually means. So this is why or this is really why off-grid charging is a puzzle piece for the transition to e-mobility. But I think we'll tap into that space later on.
But having this picture in mind, there was really one eureka moment or one moment where I had this problem, where I experienced the constraints of the power grid. And that was when I was working at Bosch. So this is also why great ideas lie around in large organizations, because people like me make experiences. You are out on a test drive with an electric car with little to no range. And you approach a charging station and that charging station is currently turned off.
Why? Because it was winter. The power grid was at its limit. And the first thing at peak power you turn off is charging stations. So I couldn't charge at this charging station when I needed to. It was winter. It was cold. And I had no other. I couldn't reach another charger. So it was 2016, which also says a lot about the development of e-mobility back in the day. So there was little to no charges anywhere.
And I had to go around in this small village in the Swabian Alps and ask for someone to give me his household plug so I can recharge my BMWs. And this was, I rang on random doors. I talked to a lot of strangers that looked at me like an alien. So what are you and why are you ringing on my door, first of all? Second of all, why are you driving an electric car? I mean, Swabia is the heart of the automotive industry in Germany.
And it's all combustion. So this is why, this was an experience I had where that made me think about a lot why and how we can make this transition happen. And as I said before, I was really passionate about this new development, the sustainable mobility. And this gave me another spin on this transition. So where are the bottlenecks? This is everything in the service. Always find this pain point.
And this pain point was definitely the brand infrastructure because that cannot sustain our charging needs in the future because we want to have convenient mobility. We don't want to, like me at that time, stay for six, seven, eight hours at a household plug to continue the journey. You want to have a sort of splash and dash with 10 minutes, 30 minutes. That's what we want to have in recharging as well.
And the problem will not be the cars, will not be the hardware, but the problem will be the infrastructure behind, which is the power grid. And this is what I realized in this moment. And then as an engineer, well, you're prone to or programmed to find solutions to problems and not just see them as a pretty picture somewhere lying around. And if you have eight hours in a car to think about, then, well,
that's the first starting point to find solutions. And that led me eventually to bioethanol-powered off-grid fast chargers. You are an engineer by trade. how did your technical expertise shape your approach to building a startup? Did it give you an edge or did you feel like a student again navigating the world of business?
So, I mean, I think the most important skill you learn as an engineer is that you have a large problem and you can break down this large problem into small problems, solve these small problems and then set the puzzle back together to have the big problem solved, independent of your trade.
However, I mean, knowing I'm a chemical engineer by training and knowing about energy flows, about physics in general, also about chemistry, battery chemistry and all those chemical reactions that happen when you use bioethanols. That also gave us an edge in the beginning because the concept was built on these basic calculations. Later on, I focused more on business topics. So, yes, as a startup founder, you tend to be a bit too naive.
You tend to be a bit overconscious and then take on things, tackle things where you easily feel overwhelmed, where you easily feel like a student that has to navigate the business world. Definitely. But this is also the beauty of it. And this is also because you grow out of these challenges that you have to navigate. And I was lucky enough to navigate all of those challenges, including dooming insolvency over the past years and came out just fine.
So I think on this, it is worth trying definitely. And this is the steepest learning curve you can ever take is trying to be an entrepreneur. You already talked about the insolvency you had to file in summer of 2024 for insolvency. This must have been one of the most challenging days. Of your life um can you take us back to the days and the weeks and month leading up to it what was it like what was the hardest part and what have you learned as a founder as leader.
So in general i mean this is the moment where your dreams are shattered i guess is what everybody things of instantly. However, when you, I mean, you come also from a lot of, I mean, a lot of hope that you had, a lot of work you put in, because we were in a financing round back then. We, and the financing round due to, let's say, market climate plus a few shareholder commitments that weren't honored in the end fell apart.
And this is something that's also on a personal level, had a lot of frustration coming with this event. But let's say the quality one has as a good entrepreneur, I think, is to never give up. And if you're lying in the dust, you stand up again and you fight again. And this is, and this is what I want to say to all of those founders out there, I mean, especially in Germany, this is considered as a failure in insolvency, but it's not.
And it's also a chance because this gives you a chance to restructure the company. It gives you a chance to get access to new fundings, to new funds you wouldn't even consider that are out there just thinking about your regular startup investments. And this is what then happened. So I was lucky enough that one of our shareholders was well connected in this space and had the right consultants to help us with the process. And in the very first meeting I remember today, it is like they said,
OK, this is not the end. This is the beginning. It's a great chance to save the company and save everything with it. You just have to work as hard as you did in the past, but now on a different path. And so this is what we did. And there are a lot of companies and funds that are specialized on complex slash distress situations. That's what it's called, the terms. And those are the companies we then approached. We approached MLA funds.
We approached also, let's say, regular operating businesses, our customers and partners. And then also really rapidly had a feeling okay this is not the end this is a new beginning because we saw a light of the end of the tunnel because there was a lot of interest flowing in, from something that i mean from something that even in dire market conditions. There is a need for this technology that everybody immediately understood.
So then instead of having this new financing round with a lot of multiples and a lot of startup investments, we found something that is now, let's say, good for the long term and found a new shareholder that bought the company. And with this, we are set for the future. We are on a long term growing path. It will not be triple or quadruple your revenues every year, but rather double. And this is fine.
So this is, it's not a start. I mean, it's still a startup approach sort of, but not full throttle, but rather look for more long-term solution. And this is also something that this situation, let's say, sparked or triggered.
So your your recharging solution viewed by bioethanol is basically it looks from the outside like an overseas container um i assume you choose that dimension on purpose so it can be easily shipped where basically inside the bioethanol is processed into energy and outside you have a plug and you can fast charge your car. Would that be an adequate description? Yes. I mean, from the front, it looks like a charging station, and then there is a big container around.
And this is really – so it makes space for the interior, which is the tank, then the generator, and then the hardware for fast charging. And, yes, we designed it on purpose so it fits with parking space. At the same time, it's easily shippable. So, yes, well described. You already said me, so it's a team effort, me, energy. Phonic stories like that are usually packed with stuff like drama, breakthrough, and coffee overdoses.
Could you share a little bit, a few behind-the-scenes anecdotes from the very early days? Yes. I mean, in the early days, it's all about, I mean, trying to fill that idea with actual content. So because when you start, you usually have a small prototype. You don't have, you have a presentation. And then there was this big moment coming for us. We had our first funds raised. And then we had a big display and an opening ceremony for one of our chargers
here, which were all the local politicians were invited. and we had also the head of a local state here coming to the inauguration. And the problem is we worked all night. For the past week. I mean, it was 24-7 shift, so to say. But we weren't finished because that day we expected cars and vehicles to charge. For example, a Mercedes truck, we did not ever charge before. And we knew, okay, whenever we have an unknown vehicle, there can be problems.
So we tried everything, but we were not ready at the time of the presentation. So what we did was then we rented those vehicles or let's say one vehicle the day before, which was an e-truck, and then placed two software engineers inside this e-truck for the presentation. Had just a small data cable coming out into charger to make sure an overview, if anything goes wrong, you can then, let's say, override it and do a manual mode for charging instead of having this automated one.
This was then, funnily enough, was also spotted by the local press, which thought it was hilarious that there are two people in the truck with a small desk, two monitors, and a laptop, which was then the picture of the day. Some even didn't display the head of state. Some only displayed the two software engineers inside the truck with our charger in the back. You already said, what was the other picture besides the two engineers? The other one was? The head of state inaugurating our charger.
That was at the time and still is at the time of recording Olaf Scholz. So he was also visiting. I think that that is pretty cool. I mean, this was two different events, though. I mean, it was a local head of state of Brandenburg. When Olaf Scholz visited, everything was working well. I mean, back then we were operational. Everything was in the market. And I mean, the E-Arc trusses, so the Mercedes trucks, those are the ones we charge on a regular basis.
So this was nothing to worry about when he visited. It was more of the security aspect surrounding his visit that were more challenging. I see, I see. I attended a few events, he was also present and then it's a completely different game. You started in the e-mobility space and there's of course no easy task. Did you ever have doubts about the feasibility of your ID? In general, one always has doubts, I think.
The question is whether you have the better arguments that those are only doubts and the solution is too good to fail. And this was for me always the case because I guess, especially in the beginning or whenever you do fundraising, also throughout the years, is you get a lot of rejections. You get a lot of no's. And this can spark doubt. But at the same time, well, I was always convinced. And I mean, the customer feedback then later came and said, OK, this is a solution that is really needed.
And if you have this customer feedback, if you have the also the success in the market, this is something that makes it easier to overcome these doubts. Because, yes, we are the we're the only ones that ran in this direction.
This is completely opposite to what everybody else was doing. everybody else was doing great charging then maybe battery buffered okay we're saying okay this is still not enough we will face those problems because the power demand is so high and hence we said okay this solution is needed and in the end well this success proves us right at least markets wise we have so many large companies as customers we would never have imagined in the beginning but companies like Mercedes or
MAN and many many more they are relying on our charging solution every day. You already said you ran in a very different direction. Your offering was distinct fast charging without a grid connection could you explain how this model worked and who was your ideal customers because my understanding is you basically rented out those containers is that right partly yes so what comes with off-grid. Is also a new means of financing. But let's take away a step back.
So first of all, I mean, nobody's really buying a charging station. What they're buying is a fully charged car or a fully charged truck or bus. So this is basically what they want to achieve. So they want to have a service that is as convenient as possible to recharge their vehicle. And the classical way is, OK, you build your own charger that is then recharging this. And this has a lot of multi-stakeholder processes, long permits you need, and so forth.
So what we did is say, okay, we need a shortcut for this. We need a shortcut that lowers your investment, that gives you a guaranteed business case, and you have reliable costs. And ideally, you don't even have to invest, but you have recurring costs, a monthly cost, nothing to down pay or any upfront payment. And this is what we do with off-grid charging. So we have a charger here that doesn't need any construction work at the site.
So you can simply place a container and start charging three hours later. Plus, you can finance it through leasing options or just simply rent it. And this is the game changer here because for the first time, this is charging as a service where you have a lot of usually a lot of upfront investment. And this is not needed with our solution. So, we provide here this one-stop-shop solution for charging as a service. With the takeover of your investor, will this model change in the future?
No, this will definitely not change. The investor is looking forward to also grow this model and expand more internationally. So, so far, we were really focused on Germany and we had the first chargers installed in Poland. But we are looking forward to also an international expansion, especially with this new shareholder to the US and also some Southeast Asian markets, which are desperately looking forward to more sustainable and reliable power production and fast charging.
That is awesome. You always give me the cues. Sustainability and innovation were at the core of me energy. How did you balance the environmental aspect and the profitability? So we are in a market where not being sustainable is not an option because in general, what people look for when buying electric vehicles is a more sustainable solutions.
Also, a lot of companies are driven by ESG reporting, by lowering their own carbon emissions, either by legislation or if one of their major customers demands, for example, carbon neutral transport. This is the case with a lot of OEMs in the automotive sector. They demand their logistics partners to go for carbon neutral transport so that the OEMs lower their emissions themselves. And so sustainability is really at the core of our business offering.
And also to maybe give the audience one or two facts about sustainability here is that our chargers, they actually are less or they have less emissions per kilometer or kilowatt hour than their solar panel. So we produce energy in Germany, in Northern Europe, and even in Poland, France, and so forth. We produce it more sustainably than a solar panel. We are almost at a level of onshore wind, and offshore wind is by far the best.
But we are there. And this is what was also driving me and is still driving the team, that with every charger we deliver, we contribute to a cleaner and greener and more sustainable future that where you can still drive your car, where you can still get your food delivered and all the goods delivered by truck. Because I mean, otherwise, continuing this fossil way is not an option for a lot of people, at least in my generation. We may add that ESG means environmental, social, and governments.
It's a shorthand for investment principles that prioritize those aspects. Governments meaning corporate governance. That was something I just had to throw in. Joe. As we already discussed, your chargers were visited by Chancellor Olaf Scholz. That is quite an endorsement. Did this kind of recognition create a momentum for your business or was it just a symbolic boost? Let's say it sparked a lot of talks with existing and prospect customers.
So in that sense, it was always so we were in the news. We had a lot of coverage. And this always sparks a lot of interest, either to warm up the conversation about follow up orders Or if someone was at the brink of ordering, maybe then tilted towards the way that they're actually ordering instead of refusing the offer. And this is what was there. But I would say the biggest boost it gave here and confidence for the team.
So having this, having such a visit and also him, I mean, let's say I always said to the team, It doesn't really matter what you think of this person, but think of him as the most influential or the influencer in Germany with the most reach you have. And he is visiting this company. I like his characterization. I love it. And everybody in the end was, I mean, and also this whole event coming with a lot of security.
I mean, there were docs checking this. They were, let's say, they came to this facility for random checks twice before. A lot of police, we had to clean out everything which is sharp, everything which is metal, everything that can fall from the sky, from the ceiling. Everything had to be cleaned. So it was a huge event, but in the end, it was worth it because everybody, after all, felt, okay, we are on a good mission.
What we do is valuable, and this is the small spark or this small additional push the team needs to continue on, and I think this was the most valuable that came out of this visit. All the customer endorsement, all the conversations he had, the nice pictures, yes, I mean, that's nice. I mean, my mom was really proud, yes, with the pictures, but this is not what you do it for. What you do it for is really, or what we did it in the end for was the team and the spirit that came out of it.
It's an awesome bonus if your mom is proud of you. Yes. Yeah, I mean, I mean, having having, let's say, a satisfied or a proud parent is better than having those parents that were, let's say, that question always your career, because, I mean, this is this is also maybe what in the end have also my dad make peace with me being an entrepreneur and having this, let's say, rather rollercoaster lifestyle than a regular nine to five job at Bosch.
Let's have a little break for our advertisers, partners, and we'll back in just 60 seconds. Okay, now we've talked a lot about you, your current company, your origins. Let's go a little bit into the future outlook. For me personally, the insolvency came as a surprise. As you said, some commitments from shareholders were not met. So you didn't have an option to do anything else than to file for insolvency.
But if you could rewind time, what would you do differently to steer the company onto a different course? So rewinding time, I mean, being a lot wiser now is sooner setting structures for scaling that don't require increasing costs that much. Translating into our terms is, so we in the beginning delivered a lot of products, for pilot projects, for example, where they were in the end rather costly to keep up. So if I would be wise, I was like, okay, do less, do that more focused.
And not increase your costs as fast. Coming from a time, and also when we did our last financing round, was still the time of little to no interest rates, a lot of money in the market, and the only thing that mattered was growth.
And so that growth at all costs and this mantra was also something that we had to listen to here because i mean those were our shareholders after all so it was growth at all costs and then we had growth at all costs but those costs were not sustainable and then especially in heavy regulated markets like germany um cutting those costs is something that at a certain point you cannot do anymore unless you do go for a full restructuring and so
this is one lesson I'll take and the second one is choose your shareholders wisely I mean and even one day on the board they will not support you at all costs but rather you have to manage those relations and this is something that can be really time intense but this is also your role as a founder or as a CEO and this is something what I can only recommend is keep your shareholders happy.
Don't keep them happy with any fancy presentations, but rather keep them happy with honest conversations and regular conversations, even if things don't look good. And then just ask them for advice. Maybe it's good advice. Maybe it's bad advice. But if they have the feeling they can help, they are more on board and more happy to help. Yes, always reminds me of two aspects. One of them is an article in TechCrunch that more investors have made startups fail than any market ever did.
And the second one is that you should also, what we discussed with different interview guests in different dimensions, different aspects here, is you should always listen to your shareholders. Yes, you should manage the conversation because if you just go there, guys, everything is shit. I don't know what to do. You can be very sure your shareholders will walk out and look for a party to buy your company because they are interested in keeping and increasing their investment.
So as you said, they will not support you at any costs. Going a little bit further, what advice would you offer to entrepreneurs looking to innovate in industries with heavy regulatory or infrastructure challenges like energy? So in general, I mean, for me, or what's still this or what also fuels this is, I mean, real change also comes from hardware. I mean, yes, software does a lot of good, and it's needed in a lot of areas.
It will increase efficiency a lot, yes, but if you want to change big time, you have to go big, big meaning hardware. And so this is a hard issue to tackle because it's so capital intense, time to markets are long, and hence you need a long breath to withhold, and actually get to the market and then also be successful in the market. So what kind of advice I would give those is, well, don't forget why you're doing it or what are you doing it for?
Because, I mean, you always have to have this vision because that will keep you going even if you get a lot of no's. Hardware infrastructure is not really something, a sexy topic for most investors, Even if they say there are technology agnostic or whatever euphemism they use, hardware is not usually the case they find sexy. So I would say try institutional investors. This is something that usually helps, especially in the early days. State supported loans, state supported subsidies.
This is something that you go for. I mean, it's also heavily regulated, but it helps you not diluting too much in the early days and keep it as an attractive investment vehicle. And when it comes to, say, regulation, regulation in the beginning is a pain. Once you solved it, it's an advantage. So this is also something a lot of business models can come out from solving this legislation issue. For example, for us, we have a mobile unit.
That is still a charging station. So we don't need any building permits, for example. We don't need to file for authorization at the local government to set up charging infrastructure as long as we are on private ground. We can just place it there, which is a perfect use case, for example, for rentals. You have an event, you have trade fair. We're there for one week and we're gone afterwards without leaving a trace.
So this is really an advantage because we designed this product to adhere to all this legislational hurdles that we can now use. So it's always a barrier, legislation, but it can be also a market entry barrier for others. So you can take that as an advantage. That was already good advice. Finally, we get to the last official question. If a young startup founder asks you what's more important, have a groundbreaking idea, or building the right team? What would you say and why?
I think most entrepreneurs would say the right team, and also me, because groundbreaking ideas exist a lot. 90% is execution, and execution comes with the right people and the right team. So choose those that are willing to go or to fight and to go into battle with you.
At the same time always are honest with you and they speak their mind because the last thing you can use in a startup is politics you don't want to have anyone not speaking their mind or acting a certain way not working towards the same goals because of some food a few that few they have with another party member or some form of deep down conflict so this is something i would always advice is choose the right
team and usually a right team also finds the right idea that is a match for their skill set. That is good. And now the only inofficial question. You already said the team is very important. You're doing a restart with a bigger investor in the background. You are looking to expand globally, talking about the US and Asia. Are you actually looking for talent? Yes, we're always looking for talent in a lot of areas.
Since we're a hardware startup, I mean, And also those engineers out there, which are not only software related, feel free to join here. Electrical engineering, mechanical engineering is needed, but also obviously software engineering. And also we always look for business talents when it comes to sales and marketing. Feel free to apply. We have a lot of challenges ahead of us and there's a growth
path laid out. I mean, as I said, it's a more sustainable growth path, but this also needs a lot of new talent. So I'm looking forward to your applications or just reach out for original coffee. Happy to talk to you guys. As always, down here in the show notes, we will link your career website. Alex? Yes. Thank you very much. It was a pleasure having you. What people from the outside cannot tell, we're talking now for almost an hour with 45 minutes of recording. Thank you very much.
You have been a great guest in a very difficult situation. Thank you for having me, Joe. It was a pleasure to be here. And hopefully one or two things or one or two experiences I shared leave a memory for your audience. Thank you. Thank you. Music. That's all folks. Find more news, streams, events, and interviews at www.startuprad.io Remember, sharing is caring. Music.