Larry Miller: From Prison to the Nike Boardroom

super conventional. A bachelor's an accounting, an NBA, working his way up at an iconic American brand like Campbell's Soup. Then there's his time helping to build Jordan brand with Michael Jordan himself. But what underlies his tire story the degrees his early career, His work with MJ is an extraordinary story of redemption and second chances. Miller was born in Philadelphia, PA. Westphilly, you know, made famous by The Fresh Prince. That show may have been a comedy, but Westphilly,

like other hoods, is deadly serious. Miller himself had an attentive, loving family, but that didn't make growing up at his neighborhood any easier, and ultimately he wound up succumbing to

the pressure of the streets in heartbreaking fashion. In this episode of Started from the Bottom, I talked to Miller about his career, how he navigated moving up the ladder at Campbell's Soup, his switched to sports apparel, moving from being an accountant to a businessman to building a brand out of one of the most famous faces and names

in the entire world. But no matter how impressed will be by his career moves, when Miller tells me about his secret who's harboring for all his career, You'll be all the more astonished. This is started from the bottom, hard earned success stories from people like us. To start a conversation, Larry tells me about a formative moment in his life when he was trying to find his first

job out of college. The way it was set up back then is there was what was called the Big eight accounting firms, right and everybody with an accounting degree, your goal was to get hired by one of the Big eight. And I felt the same way. And the one that I was really interested in was Arthur Anderson. At the time, they were one of the Big Eight. I went to the office and spent the whole day.

They're interviewing with a bunch of different people, and all day I'm thinking in the back of my mind, should I share my story with these folks? Should I say something? And I kept, you know, kind of thinking, and finally I get to the last person at the end of the day was a hiring manager. So I decided, you know what, I'm going to share my story with this guy.

So I sit down with him and I said, hey, you know, there's something I want to talk to you about that didn't come through and the other interviews that didn't come through on the application. And then I went in and started to tell him about my past, that I had started my education while I was incarcerated, blah blah blah. And I could see as I'm talking to him, I could see his face changing. And finally, when I

got done, he said, wow, that's an amazing story. And he reached in his pocket and he pulled out an envelope and he said, uh. He said, I have an offer letter here that I was all ready to give you, but I can't give it to you now. He said, I can't take the chance on hiring you and something happened down the line, So I wish you the best, but I can't hire you. And at that point I

decided I wasn't going to share my background anymore. If it came up, I wasn't going to deny it, or if somebody asked directly, I wasn't gonna be dishonest, but I wasn't going to volunteer the information, and I never did it to that point. Was that a pretty immediate instinct after that or was it did that come out of maybe even just a period of after that feeling like well, I think it was pretty immediate, because as I'm he's telling me this, I was like, man, I

should have never said anything. But the reality is I'm glad I did because I think in an environment like that, with public accounting and all the regulations and all, something would have probably come up at some point. And once the Campbell's opportunity came up, I figured it was probably better not to go public accounting. The chances of my background getting exposed or coming up in public accounting were a lot greater than if I was working for a

company like Campbell. So I decided to take the job at Campbell. Super when you got there and your degrees in accounting, what did you learn even some of the soft skills, maybe even beyond just accounting, Like, what did you learn with that being your first you know? One of the things that I realized early on was that I was going to have to take some control of my career. And so I remember one point, this guy who's started in the training program with me. He had

gone to work for a company called Missus Paul's. They were a division of Campbell's Soup at the time. They make fish sticks, fish products. But he had gone to work for Missus Paul's and he and I were pretty close, and so he called me up one day. He said, man, I was surprised that you weren't interested in the job we had for you over here. I said, what are you talking about? He said, well, we you know, we reached out about a job for you over here and

we were told that you weren't interested. I was like, no one said anything to me about that, So that kind of got my you know, got my standard up a little bit, and I was like, you know, this is not right. At least someone should have said something to me and given me the opportunity to say yes. Or no. So I actually set up a meeting with the guys who ran the department, and I stepped to

him about it. I was like, listen, you know, I understand that Missus Paul's reached out about a job that they were interested in me for and they were told that I wasn't interested without me even knowing about it. And we're like, well, we thought this was what's best for your career. I said, you know what, I appreciate that, but I think I should be involved in deciding what's

best for my career. And okay. So I ended up going over and interviewing for that job at Missus Pauls and moving over and taking that job at Missus Paul's. But if my friend hadn't called me and told me about it, I would have never known. I would have never gotten to at least give it a shot to see if it was something I wanted to do. So my last role at Campbell's was actually working in the

soup plant, which was an amazing experience for me. One of the differences in a situation like that is that every day you have a new goal, and you know whether you hit your goal or not. Every day. It's like Hey, we need to produce X number of Kansas tomato soup. Did we hit that number? If we did? Cool, then if we did it, then we got to talk about what went wrong, why we didn't hit it, and

what we're going to do to make it up. Every day, the plant manager would, you know, every morning, all the managers would get together and talk about what had happened the day before. And one of the things that I learned from these guys is that they would go at each other. I mean like going at each other hard because hey, you messed up. I'm gonna let you know you messed up. They'd argue and curse, and then at the end of the meeting like, yo, man, let's go

get a couple of coffee. Yeah, you're coming over this weekend. Yeah. It was like nobody took it personal. It's like, I'm gonna tell you that you screwed up, and you know, I'm gonna call you out and tell you exactly what was wrong. But it's not personal. I'm not you know, we're still good whatever. But I and that was that

was something that I learned in that experience. It's like, try not to take it personal when somebody's giving you feedback on something that you you know you should have done a better job at you know what I mean. And that's something that's not always easy to do because it's easier to take it personal when somebody's telling you that you screwed up. And these guys taught me that you got to figure out how to take that feedback.

Take it in, but then you gotta let it go. No, you can't take it personal, right, Take it in, make the tweak, ye, and then let it. But by the time you leave Campbells, you were there five years, five years, five years. You got a little late start for college, so you're thirty five. Somewhere in that about thirty five. Where are you at in terms of thinking about your career.

Are you thinking I'm okay to stay here as long as I can keep moving up, or you realizing maybe this isn't the exact right fit, or well, you know, Um, It's funny because I never thought about like, Okay, I'm gonna do this and then this is the next job. My focus was always if I always felt like, if I kill this job that I'm in, what's next will

materialize for me. I'll be able to you know, because one of the things I realized is that if you have a good reputation in terms of your work ethic and doing things that the way you're supposed to, people want you on their team. Yeah, you know what I mean. And so I never was like focused on, well, I'm gonna do this, and then the next move is this one and next. I was always focused on I'm gonna I'm gonna do my very best at the job that

I'm in, and then we'll see what materialized. And unfortunately for me, you know, things kind of worked out with that process, But but that that was the way I always approached it. This like I'm gonna kill the job I'm in and focus on that, and then what's next to materialized for me? And I think we'll see as we kind of progressed through here, is that that tactically worked for you? It did, The thing seemed to just

follow in your lap at that point. It did. But I think I know, beyond shadow of doubt that I'm blessed, way beyond my wildest streams. But I think it was also putting in the work and being willing to step up and speak up when I felt like the need was there for me to protect my own career, right right, So, just moving ahead a little bit, you eventually make your way to a company called Jansen, which is a company

I guess what would you call it an apparel sports company? Swimwear. Yeah, so Jansen basically start out as a swimwear company, making, you know, swimwear, cruise ships, beach in swimwear, and then branched out into other sportswear categories, but mainly is known for a swimwear But moving over from more the food industry to apparel, did that feel like a challenge to you or did it for like a whole new sort of world to learn or did it feel I think

the fundamentals of business you can apply regardless of what the industry is. I think when you change industries, you still are going to apply your same leadership style, your same basic business principles. It's just then learning the new industry. Then people were willing to teach me the industry to

share with me. I remember in swimwear they have what they call market weeks, and as the finance guy there was that's not something that I would typically have been involved in, but I requested to go to those market meetings and sitting on the meetings when the sales guys are pitching the customers, sitting on the meetings where there were discussions between sales and customers and feedback on product.

Because I wanted to learn as much as I possibly could about not just the finance part of the business, but the rest of the business as well. You were asking to do that as a controller. Yeah, wow, Yeah. And then eventually the guy who was running the women's swimwear division, he approached me one day and he's like, man, you should come and work with me, you and I together kind of running the swimwear it. He had more of the creative side of like what the products should

look like. He was more focused on, you know, this is the product we should have, this is where we should sell it. And when we tied the conversation about it, he said, you know, man, you know I want you to come over and help me out with all the numbers and the business stuff. And I said, fine, I'm willing to do that as long as you teach me the other side of the business that you're good at. And so we had a great working relationship and we

had the business on fire. This really starts a new chapter in your career, right, because it kind of moved me out of finance. That was the first time I actually moved out of the finance department and my job there. My title there was director of business Development for the swimwear division, and that, like I said, was the first like outside of actually finance. At this point, you're out of finance, You're running your first company. Were you Were

you terrified? No? Actually, the thing that I was most concerned about throughout all of this was my story coming out, like somebody finding out about my past, and that coming out and that hindering what I was trying to do and hindering the progress that I had been making. That was the thing that worried me the most. Im everything else just felt kind of easy, maybe not necessarily easy, but I looked at it like, hey, if somebody else

can do it, then I could probably do it. Now that I can't do brain surgery right just because somebody else could do it. But in the business world, in the corporate world, the way I looked at it's like, Okay, you know, I'm gonna figure out. I'm gonna figure this out. After the break, Larry gets a little more revealing about what he really went through to get to the top. We're back with my conversation with Larry Miller. We're about to get into his upbringing in West Philly, a neighborhood

that shaped him, but not before it broke him. Maybe you want to talk a little bit about the neighborhood. So, you know, growing up, I had a strong family. You know, there were eight kids in the family, my mom and dad. My dad worked every day in the factory and made sure that we, you know, had what we needed. My mom took care and raised eight kids. So you know, I had a good childhood. It's not like I can't

blame anybody else for what I did. These were choices that I made, and I think at a certain age, just the allure of the street really started to pull me, and I started to want to be one of the cool guys in the street because you know, to me, you were seeing it exactly. That's how you get noticed, that's how you you know, build, that's how you be to your point be seen. And so I first time I was ever arrested, I was twelve years old. Friend of mine and I stole a bike and we got caught.

I ended up with probation and then a little bit around the time I decided to join the gang, joined the gang. And you know, I'm the kind of person. Once I kind of decided to do something, then I'm all in. And when I joined the gang, I was. I was all in. And what what game I was from? My gang was called the Cedar in the game fifty six and Seedar Avenue. And when I was sixteen years old, I uh, I shot another kid and killed him. And

he wasn't someone that was in a gang. He just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. And it was a senseless act on my part. It definitely made no sense and it was something that if I could go back and undo it, I absolutely would. Every day I think about uh and hope that I could and wish that I could go back and undo that, but but I can't. And you know, fortunately for me, I've been able to connect with his family and they

they have forgiven me. It was it was amazing. We met my daughter and I met with them, and um, they you know, expressed their feelings and you know the pain that this had caused them. But at the end they all said, hey, but but but we forgive you. And so that that's been If nothing else comes out of this whole process, the fact that of having that forgiveness from them has been has been amazing for me. But I was sent and says I was sixteen. I

was charged as an adult. I pleaded guilty to second degree murder and was sentenced to four and a half to twenty years. Did the four and a half, got out, knocked around in and out of jail doing crazy stuff again, ended up going back to jail for a number of armed robberies, and this time I ended up with a sentence of four to ten and I had to do nine months of the backtime, so I ended up with

four years and nine months. And this time when I was incarcerated, they had a program where you could take college classes inside the jail, and there were a number of colleges that were offering classes. Temple University, Cheney State, Villanova, Montgomery County Community College, Philadelphia Community all were offering classes

inside the jail. And there was a program where you could qualify to move into these trailers that were outside side of the wall, so that the jail had a jail wall and the trailers were on the other side of the wall, and in this program, you could live in those trailers and then leave every day and go to school and just had to be back by eight o'clock in the evening. When I heard about that program, I was like, man, that's how I want to do my time. If if I gotta be here, I want

to do it like that. So I started doing what I needed to do to qualify for that program, which was take classes inside, not getting into any trouble. You had to have half of your minimum sentences. So got to that point, I moved out to those trailers and started at Montgomery County Community College, got my associate's degree while I was in that program, transferred down to a halfway house in North Philly, started going to Temple. Yeah, you transferred over into Temple right transferred and I was

able to transfer all of my credits. So I started that Temple as a junior. So I with my associalist degree and finished my bastelors in two years and started at Campbell suit But when I was graduating from from Temple and companies would come on campus, like I said, to interview. One of the things I did early on, I took interviews with companies that I knew I didn't want to work for for whatever reason, but I didn't know anything about interviewing and all that because I'm coming

from the street. So I was like, you know what, I need some practice at this. So I took interviews with companies I knew I didn't want to work for to get the practice, so that by the time the companies came that I wasn't trusted in, I was killing it because I had figured out the right questions to ask the answers to that they wanted to hear. I mean I because I had taken all these interviews and gotten the feedback on it. By the time the companies came on campus that I wanted, I was interested and

I was killing them. Wow. Like one of the questions, you know, it was always like her, so, so where do you see yourself in five years? Right? And I thought a lot about that question, you know, as a controller or CFO whatever, And I thought about it and I was like, it's a little bit deeper than that, I think to me, And the way I would answer that question is I would always tell them, you know, my goal is I want to be a decision maker.

I want to be in a position where I'm helping, helping to make decisions that determine the direction of company is going to go in, and I'm willing to take the responsibility for those decisions. Like, if they work out, then great, If they don't, I'll take the responsibility. But my goal is I want to be a decision maker. Oh that's a very good answer. But but but but that was the reality for me, and I think that's

the way I always looked at it. I didn't I didn't box myself into I want to be in finance. I want to be a controller. I want to be It was like, I want to be sitting at the table helping to make decisions. We really took that questions that face value. You really looked inside yourself and thought, well, what is it that I really want my career exactly? I want to be a decision I want to be somebody that's that's college shots right, right. We got to take a quick break, but when we come back, Larry

Miller makes his mark at Nike. In January of twenty twenty two, Larry came out with his secret. The story of his murder conviction was in his book Jump, My Secret, Journey from the Streets to the Boardroom, which he co wrote with his daughter. But for four decades after getting out of prison, Larry kept his past his secret, fearful

it would jeopardize his career. He told no one, even as he made impressive moves from prison to Campbell's to Jansen to Nike, where he was finally out of the finance game and ready to start building a legendary brand. Our first job at Nike was the head of apparel in the US, which was about a billion dollar business at the time. So jes see US apparel at that point. And what I didn't know when I started at Niki until after I got here. But at the time I was hired at Nike, I was the first black vice

president in the history of the company. I did not know that until I got here. But that put a little bit. I added pressure on the fact that, you know what, I got to make sure that I did. I deliver on this. It must have put pressure both ways in terms of the feeling of like being one of one here at Nike, the pressure to deliver. But I'm also wondering if if you felt pressure as as a black man who's an executive at Nike, that sort of built off of the greatness of black athletes? Did

that feel Could that have felt fun? That's why I was I think that's why I was a little surprised or a lot surprised when I found out that I was the first, because you assume based on you know, Nike's involvement with the athletes and that that the company a certain way. But but you know, fortunately now that number has has gone way up. I think we've got forty to fifty black vice presidents here now. So were you?

I mean, you're coming from West Philadelphia, born and raced race, had born a race, shout out the fresh Prince, and you're moving up through the corporate ranks, not a lot of black faces, not just a Nike yeah, anywhere you go. Right, How did you put that feeling of discomfort that might cause to the side or didn't or did not feel that with you? No? It did, and I never put

it to the side. I just kind of dealt with it and kind of figured out the best way that I was going to deal with it to still keep moving forward and accomplish what I was trying to accomplish. But I never forgot about it because it's so obvious. I mean, you know, you go into a room and you know, you look around and it's just you sitting there, you know what I mean, And so you can't not you know, you can't forget it because it's in your

face all the time. But I think what you have to do is make sure that you represent yourself in the way that you should represent yourself as a person of color, as a black person in that room. You speak up on the things that you need to speak up on, but do it in a way that is non threatening to folks, but making your point, you know what I mean, making your point and making sure that people understand that if something's not right, it ain't right, and you need to make sure that you voiced that.

And in a way that goes back to that first example of that. You know, when you're at Campbell super Nape. They didn't even tell you about that job opportunity and you went in and you dressed it. It's like, on one hand, if if you make yourself above approach, if you do your job well and you show up and are professional, then you can demand certain things. You know, the reason I went back went to school and got my NBA wasn't because I like school or just wanted

to go to school. I figured at some point I was gonna get to a situation where I'm in the runnings for a job or a position and somebody else's as well, and they have an NBA and I don't. Then that's to me, that's the roadblock that that would be put up in front of me to keep me from from getting to where I think I should be. So I'm going to remove that as a barrier exactly. So you know, you got to tell me something else

as to why you didn't give me the job. I knew that that was a roadblock that I had to move out of the way. Yeah. Can you tell the story of the Jordan brand launch in ninety nine. So at the time, actually Nike decided that there were three businesses that they were going to put dedicated teams on with the president and a team of people that were

solely focused on that business. And it was golf, Nike Golf, which was had a different distribution and was kind of different than the rest of the Nike business, ACG which is the outdoor business, and then Jordan. Those were the three and so so I was asked to put a team together and strategies on how we were gonna take that logo and evolve it into a brand. And the first launch that we had was the Air Jordan fifteen.

And this was the first shoe that Michael wasn't going to be playing in and wearing, right because he retired. At that point, he was retired. And the formula had been that we tinker designs a really cool shoe and we do some marketing with Spike Lee or Bugs Bunny or somebody, and then Michael wears the shoe eighty two games and into the playoffs. That was the formula of how we were gonna have what was driving this business, and now you're taking him playing out, so a big

piece of the formula is not there anymore. And there were a lot of people, both internal and external, who thought that it would never work, that that's the formula, formulas done. It was a nice run, but it's over at this point. There were a lot of people who felt that way, and you know, fortunately there were folks internally who thought differently, as guy named Howard White, who was basically the one who suggested and recommended me to

run the Jordan business. And Howard was always a proponent of the fact that he believed the brand could be bigger, that we could really evolve that into a brand, even what the shoes the air Jordan's shoes had banned while he was playing. Absolutely, And I mean, you know, if you look at the business back then when he retired, the business was around one hundred and forty one hundred and fifty million dollars. In this year, it's over five

billion dollars. So so we would been able to not only sustain it after he retired, but to continue to grow it, kind of grow it exponentially. Yeah, running a company's one thing, but running a company that's really built a round a Living Legends brand, did you having to work alongside Was that a different kind of pressure or?

I mean, I think the biggest pressure was, you know, making sure that we represented mj the way he wanted to be represented and the way he felt that we should be representing him and that the brand should be representing him. That was that was the biggest challenge, Just making sure that everything we did aligned with who he was and what he was about and what he brought to not just on the court, but off the court as well. Just making sure that we stayed aligned with

with who MJ is. We were blessed to have a living legend that we could actually you know, talk to and make sure that we're doing things the way he wanted them done, and that we're doing things and representing him the way he wanted to be represented. I think we were add an advantage to me. He was kind of like our secret sauce. Being able to go and talk to MJ and run things by him and make sure that he was on board with the things we

wanted to do. That kept us aligned with who he is, and I think that's what made us be able to you know, represent him in a way that resonates with consumers. It's probably what makes the brand feel authentic. Authentic. Yeah, yeah, just curious. How's the relationship with Phil Knight, who's another very larger than life character here at Nike. Phil phil Knight is someone that I have the utmost respect for.

Not only do I consider Phil a colleague and something that I work with, but I consider him a friend. And over the years we've developed a friendship relationship and I always felt like Phil had my back. So if I needed to push something through or something wasn't going I felt like I could go to Phil explain it to him, and he would help me figure out how to get past it. So he's an incredible individual, and like I said, I feel fortunate to consider him a friend.

When I decided that I think I'm going to move forward with doing this book, right, So the two people there were no. I had a list of people that I wanted to have an opportunity to talk to before they heard about it somewhere else, you know what I mean. I didn't want to like read about the fact that you know, I have all this history and not have And so at the top of the list where Michael Jordan and Phil Night they were you knew before this book comes out and it's written, but you know, before

this comes out. I got to go to Phil them where a bunch of other folks were on the list, but they were to two at the top. So my desire was to sit down in person and have the conversation, but it was during the pandemic, so I had to do it digitally. So I reached out to both of them and basically said, hey, something personal I like to talk with you about whenever you get an opportunity. So Phil hits me right back I have a video conference

with him. So I share that with Phil and he said, you know, when when I got the message that, uh, that you wanted to talk about something personal, he said, I didn't know what to expect, but it absolutely wasn't this so so but he but then he said, look, you know, he said, I think you have to tell this story. He said, uh, it's it's inspirational. It's aspirational. I think it will motivate some people, and I'll support you.

However I can, well, what did you tell Phil? Basically that, uh, you know, my daughter had convinced me to tell my story and that the part that people don't know about is that from you know, the age of twelve, thirteen to thirty, I was in and out of jail. I was convicted of murder. I mean said, I laid the whole whole deal out for him and and like I said, he was like, you know, you have to tell the story. And then it was the same with them Jack. We

finally ended up. It took a little bit longer to connect with him, but when we did connect, same thing I kind of went through, like, hey, my daughter convinced me that I need to tell this story. Kind of shared it with him, and his first comment was, I agree with your daughter. You need to tell this story. People need to know the things you've been through. And

he said, this can be a motivational story. So so both of them, I think if either one of them had been well, maybe you shouldn't do this, but I might have been much more reluctant. But they were both not only supportive but encouraging, like, you know, you need you need to tell this story. The fact that you came from where you came from, doing what you did, and found it in yourself to forgive yourself, found it

in yourself to let yourself be better, be different. It's not something a lot of people offer themselves, you know, and it's really important that you did that. I think, well, you know, it's like I said it was. It was. It was challenging. I mean for years I was so afraid that this would come out. I mean I had nightmares on a regular basis. I had recurring nightmares of like getting locked up again and going back to jail and I'm trying to get back to my life and

trying to figure out what's going on. And this was something that happened like at least once or twice a month, I would have, you know, these nightmares, migraines. I actually had to end up going to the er a couple of times because I had these migraines so bad. And I know it was all because I was of the stress and anxiety I was feeling, because I was holding all of this in and afraid that at some point

it was going to come out. You know. The other the other positive thing about this to me is that it allowed me to tell the story of my own terms, and I think that has been a real benefit for me just and you know, once I started talking to my daughter and kind of getting some of this stuff out to her, the nightmares stopped, the migraines stopped. And I think it's all because I've let go of all this pressure and tension and anxiety that I was holding

in because I was afraid that this story might come out. Wow. You know, I'm I'm just um humbled and and you know, grace grateful that I've been able to get through the things that I've been able to get through, and um, you know, you have a story that could maybe inspire

some some other other people. You know, I was thinking about you know, so, so reality is, you know, I didn't have to do this, right, I could have, Like a friend of mine said, man, you were planning to take this story to the grave, which I was like, yeah, you're right about that. But you know, I know it was the right thing to do. I already know it

has helped some people, It's inspired some people. And I feel like I've been so blessed in my life with the things that I've been able to have access to and be exposed to, that if I didn't share this story that I wouldn't be showing my gratitude for how how blessed I've been. And it's allowing me to give something back. It's allowing me to give something back that

can maybe help some other people. Absolutely. I mean it's like again, people talk about the cycle, the cycle of violence and that occurs in the street, and it really is that. And some of that is down to you feeling worthless because you did something where you feel, well, now I have no worth you know. Um, the whole recidivism cycle, it's I mean, you get in trouble for something, you go to jail, you don't learn anything or acquirity knowledge or training or anything. That's going to allow you

to change your life. You go back out, you did the same thing, and you end up right back in, and then it's it's it's a it's a vicious cycle, you know. I am so One of the things I'm really happy and proud about coming out of this book is that Harvard Business School has decided that they're gonna make a case study for their NBA program their first year NBA students out of this book. It's going to

be a part of the curriculum for NBA students. I'm excited about that because to me, these are like entrepreneurs and CEOs of the future, and for them to have a different perspective on giving people another chance and on redemption and you know, all those things, I think is great. So I'm really excited about the fact that they're doing that.

But one of the statistics that I saw in the case that they did it said that, so the resident of the rate is like seventy six seventy seven percent somewhere, and that's on the people who end up going back. If someone learns a skill or a trade while they're incarcerated, that seventy seven percent number goes to thirty percent. If they get a bachelor's degree, that seventy seven percent go to six percent, and a master's degree is at zero.

So to me, that just really confirms the fact that education, learning and skill learning things that are going to allow you to have a positive impact when you get out. That's what really makes a difference, and that's those opportunities and things that allow you to feel pride in yourself too, exactly feel good about yourself, like I look what I did, and look what I can do. And when you learn all these things, you know, you start reading, you're like,

it's the whole world. So something like I think the number I saw it was like ninety two percent of people who are incarcerated are eventually going to get out. The goals should be they come out better people than they were when they went in. And that's only going to happen if we're doing things while people are incarcerated to help them become better people. And the program that like you had when you were in jail, that it is gone. The program that I was in then it

doesn't exist anymore. So if I was there today, I couldn't come out and do what I've been able to do because the program that I was able to take advantage of to change my life doesn't exist anymore, and to me, that's part of the problem. That's part of the issue. We need to figure out, you know, how we can start to give people that opportunity to feel good about themselves that you were talking about and believe

that they can. At the end of the day, it starts with somebody believing that they can change their life. That's where it starts. And I think once someone has that desire and that belief that they can change their life, then it's like, Okay, here are the steps that you need to take to do that. Here are the things that but it's hard to find that now. I think to going back to your point about Harvard now including your book Jump as required reading for first year NBA students.

Not only will hopefully these kids see that you should get people second chances. We all need second, third, or four and sometimes in life for various things. But even if you just look at from a pure business perspective, what someone who's been through the things that you've been through can bring to the table, you're really up against a rock and a hard place that you're going to

fight for success for yourself success for company. If you look at an archetype of a person you kind of want to fill a role, it might be this person who's had to fight tooth and nail to just get an eighth of what these you know, other applicants. Some of the most intelligent, creative people I've ever met are people that I've met when I was incarcerated. There's a whole workforce there that we're not tapping into because we

need to develop those folks. And hey, when you're when you're in jail, you got time, you know what I mean, You got time on your hand. So why not give people a positive way to utilize that time by training them and give them them education or teaching them to You know, a friend of mine when when I was when I was sixteen and incarcerated, a friend of mine that was there was learning how to cut hair. I was one of the first people. I was like, yo, don't mess me up. I was one of the first

people that he cut. He got out and opened up a barbershop, has employed people. I mean, so, you know, it doesn't have to necessarily be a college degree. It just has to be some skill set that you can then utilize to kind of build your life with. And you know, for me it was college. For him it was Barbara. You know what I mean, absolutely absolutely, Larry Miller, real honor and real pleasure to sit here and in

your office, in your life story. So thank you so much, pleasure, pleasure to share, you know, some of these thoughts and insights. And maybe there's a sixteen year old Larry Miller out there somewhere about to do something stupid, and maybe the story can make them think twice and make it a

little easier on themselves, exactly. And then you know, hopefully there are people that have never had any kind of contact with the criminal justice system, but they're in positions where they can hire people or provide opportunities for people, and maybe this story would inspire them to give somebody a chance, or to help somebody to get a skill set or an education that can help them to improve

their life. Thanks so much to Larry Miller for opening up about his journey from Westville to the executive ranks of Nike and Jordan Brand. His achievements are absolutely unthinkable. It's almost a fairy tale, but in reality, it's the kind of achievement that we need to view as and make repeatable Larry Miller's proof that when someone really decides to make a change to their circumstances, that change can be lasting, at least when provided the same opportunities as

everyone else. Larry, finally opening up all these years later, hopefully brings us a little bit closer to that place. Started from the Bottom is produced by David Jaw, edited by Keishaw Williams, Engineered by Ben Holliday, Booked by Laura Morgan with production help from Lea Rose. The show's executive produced by Jacob Goldstein, who's not all up in the videos for Pushkin Industries. Our theme music's by Ben Holliday and David Jaw featuring Anthony Aggas and Vannah Joe Lack.

Listen to Start Up from the Bottom wherever you get your podcasts and if you want add three episodes available one week early sign up for Pushkin Plus. Check out Pushkin dot fm or the Apple show page for more information. If you like your show, please remember to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app. I'm justin Richmond