Francis Ngannou: From the Cameroon Sand Mines to Heavyweight Champ

if you're not a fight fan. I mean to be honest, I betterly know the first thing about MMA, but continue to be riveted by and Ghanu's determination and spirit. And I'm excited to see what he does next. This is started from the bottom, hard earned success stories from people like us. Growing up, my favorite things was like action movie, combat, sport. What were the movies like? What did you love? Every kind of like action movie like Ramble dam the blood

spoil sports, Oh man, that was fantastic. Hell I remember like watching um I think it was a blood spoil one A Vandam and tempo the movie that he kicked the tree with his kick. So after that, I went to the farm and then was kicking, just kicking banana until the third down and then yes, I kicking banana and then my hands. When she came back, she woke my ass because like there was a banana that we're supposed to eat, you could eat it. Yeah, yeah, you're

ruining the bananas. Man. I was so much into like action, I need some action. So I went there kicked the hell out of those bananas, the banana trees. But had you not break? Was it the read like the trunk you were kicking. Yeah, but it's pretty soft though he has nothing to do with a tree, now, benana trunk is very is very soft. It can't hurt, but it can't break your food. Did you feel a sense of opportunity growing up, like did you feel like you could

become something? I always felt like that. I always knew. I mean, even though there was an opportunity at all around me. But I do have a dream. I had a dream, and I think that was the biggest thing that I could have have in that position, you know, like see it like this. I grew up in the place that when we wake up, our biggest dream of the day is to eat something before go to sleep in the night, that was our biggest dream of the day,

the mission of the day. So like I couldn't even go to school sometime because we were kicked out in the class due of maybe a pen or a notebook that we didn't have, or a scholar fee something like that. And that's even the reason why I started to work in the sand quarry, like when I was nine years old. So when you're in that type of situation and then you have this dream to become a work class boxer,

what the hell is that? Like you should just focus be a farmer as your dad or your grandpa, or be a builder, a mechanic or stuff like that, or capender. And now I'm like, yeah, as much as it sounds cool, that's not what I want, you know, Like I just want to do this. And in my entire life, I've been fighting my family with my dream. People want to kill my dream and tell me how impossible is it? How I cannot make it? Couldn't just give up on it?

When did your dream of becoming a boxer star? Honestly, like when I was kid, I love everything related to combat action. He could be a movie, a combat sport, a boxing matchic karate, as long as he say action. I loved it. But he was a one day. I was thirteen years old. I still remember that day like he was yesterday, even though he's been twenty three years. I get kicked out of the classroom someday, and that was like the time that you kind of like enough

is enough. I was having enough to be embarrassed in the front of the class of other kids that would look at me like the guy that the guy that doesn't deserve to be there, to be among them because he has nothing. And that day they kicked me out of the classroom, and I was so upset about it, Like, men, what do I do to deserve this situation? What do I have less than other kids? Like, what is the

difference between us? The difference is just that they are lucky enough to have the parents that can provide for them, unlike me. So that doesn't mean they deserve it better than I do. Matter of fact, I work hard to get all those stuff. I walk under the sun, the rain, in the weekend, in the holy days to have the minimum that I have, even though it's not enough, so at least I have a value of that, you know.

So that was the turning point of my life. Then combined with the fact that my dad was fighting in the strait and kind of like have a reputation of the guy that fight everywhere, and I always like being a shame of not of him, but of what he was doing, and then promising myself not to become like him. Your dad, Yeah, but you didn't want to fight. Yeah, I didn't want to fight. But I don't want to

fight in the street. I don't want to fight at school anymore because when I fight somewhere, they're just gonna say, like, they're gonna relate me to my dad, like yes, just like his dad, And I feel so bad about it. So I was contain my desire to fight until like when I was thirteen, the day that I was telling you earlier, that was the day that I figured out that boxing could be the thing that would combine everything.

He will not only put me in the stage in front of other kids and prove them that I'm nothing less to them, I'm even better and I could be the number one. Are gonna be practicing doing what I love and in the good way, you know, I'm gonna get appreciated of fighting, unlike my dad would get blamed from fighting and also get paid. That was like a bonus, a serious on the cake, you know, everything together. I'm like, this is cool, you know. From there on, like that

was my goal to become a boxer. But problem, I'm thirteen years old. I'm in this little village that has nothing around. I never see a gym with my eyes, and there's not a gym in fifteen miles radios. So how do I find a boxing gym? I don't know how do a boxing gym? Looks like the only thing that I know about it was what I was watching in the movie on TV. But I've never been until

like I think I was twenty two. Then I'm like, okay, it's been so long, Like at some point I have to stop dreaming and really take action in order to accomplish the dream. So nine years, nine years, that dream does not go away. Oh he kept growing, he kept growing. Like before I left the village at twenty two years or I wasn't doing anything, Like I felt like everything that I was doing was worthless. You know, what were you doing? How are you? How are you surviving, sustaining yourself.

I was still working in the sand quarry. I was a professional at that time. So what did that entail? What are you working at the sand quarry? Like, what did that entail? Dick, dig the sun from the mountain. Dig the mountain and then the water will carry the sun down, and then we're going to shovel from the water to put it outside and then shovel in the truck and they will use it for construction, you know.

So that's what I was doing. I was also doing like a like a taxi with a motorcycle, as I don't know if you you have seen it in Africa. We get this those small motorcycle and we will do taxi with it. We can carry two or three people on it, yes, sometimes sitting on the gas tank in the front and you have like three people behind or two people with the with the back. And I was doing those stuff. Working at sand quarry does not sound fun.

Sounds like tough, really hard work, you know, And a lot of people's dreams would die under conditions like that. Don't work like that that they just that they don't like that, they don't want to be doing. It's so far from what your dream was. A lot of people wouldn't the dream, wouldn't survive that, but you you also have to be you also have to be grateful about it because like at least it was something. It was something that we had to survive. It wasn't easy obviously,

basically like starting from nine years old, but grown man's work. Though, it's a grown man's work. And that's why like my brother and I we were the only kids in that sand quarry at first, but lucky I was a little bigger than nine years old kids and they're stronger, so and we didn't have any opportunity, any choice. So and

the reason why my dream didn't die. Even though I was grateful about that job, Like I was looking at people there, maybe some people that have been in that environment, those type of job for twenty years, and I couldn't see myself there for twenty years. I'm like, Okay, what's gonna happen when I turned fifty when I won't be strong enough to keep shoveling sand or to dig the mountain? Like I can't do this my entire life, And what would be the heritage that I will live to my family?

For your kids? Yeah, yeah, to my kids, like this can be it, you know, I can just take it and sit here. I have to do something. Not sure what I was going to do was going to work, but one thing that I was always sure is that I'm going to do it. I'm going to try and that was my drive. So tell me about the moves you make then to get out of Cameroon and fulfill your dream of becoming a fighter professional boxer. Oh Man.

At twenty two, I went to the city and then I started boxing, and he became very clear that in order to pursue that dream, I have to leave Cameron because once again there wasn't enough opportunity there to be on the big stage. I want to leave Cameron. By the way, that's not like young. I mean, that's kind of old to be starting a boxing career, right yeah, yeah, And that's what everybody says, like he's old. You're old. You can't do it. It's not possible. This I mean

I left Cameron. I was twenty twenty six. Yeah, after being in the city for four years. I left Cameroon. I was twenty six. And not only I was twenty six, I didn't even know where I was going. I have to migrate, move country to country, city after city like a baby step go over all the against all the immigration law and at different borders, take me to that journey. Man,

that's it's a wild story. Yeah. So, like I left Cameroon, next country in Nigeria, and then Niger, then Algeria, then Morocco and then from Morocco, we're trying to get to Spain like by a inflatable boat or whatever we can do. And it took me like one years. From Morocco. I spent like one years in Morocco. The entire June to get in France was like fourteen months. But I'm happy I finally made it because a lot of people don't

make it, so I made. People don't make it. People get sent back, people people get back, people die, people die, people get killed. A lot of things happen, man, Like it's unbelievable. Like when you're in that world, it's insane what you can see, what's possible. Like your life was zero, Like not only nobody cares about your life, even you.

You don't care about your life anymore at some point because like you kind of like in the position that you feel like you have nothing to lose, Yeah, and then you do some stupid shit like insane, like what man, those the reass that we took, like we would take the inflatable boat those board that you use for the swimming pool to put in in the ocean to patron to go to Europe. I mean it's like five the minimum. The closest will be like five miles. But you can't

imagine the wave. The wave in the on the beach is insane. And we have to like hide from police, from the security, from the from the how they say, the immigration patrol and yeah, the immigration patrol, all those stuff, and then he always have to be at night and blind you can see every anything. We would like try and to get there inflate our boat. And how many people on one of those little pool raps I depend

It could be up to twelve people, it depends. It's crazy, Like would a float even I mean he's floated, but yeah, I mean sometimes he could. He gets stopped in the middle of the ocean. And that's it. When you can start what happens. Guess when you stop in the middle of the ocean, then what happened? It's done. You're done. It's over, man, it's just over. Yeah, what do you

what do you like? I guess when that kind of thing happens, do you have the thought that maybe I just go back to Cameroon or do you immediately have I got to try again? You always think about like going back, but for what. What you don't know when you leave your country is that it's get harder and harder. And then when you get to some when you start, you I'm like, oh, this is hard, and then you feel like you're some sort of like badass and I'm like, oh,

I'm doing it, you know. And then it's keep getting harder and harder day after days, week after week, months, and then you kind of like get exhausted, like physically, mentally, financially, like you're exhausted, you know, and also like you kind of like bet everything on yourself to get there. So at that point, by the time that you really get exhausted, you have lost everything, so nothing left behind to go

back for whatever was your safe that you had. You have to spend it all in order to make another step another step, and then you get blocked in the middle. You can go back, there's nothing behind, so the only option is like keep going after the break Francis gets to a place where he's finally free to chase his dream of becoming a boxer. Once you find the god, explain what did you do? Oh, I get in the chair because we get caught. We get caught in the ocean.

I mean not like cod We get rescued by the Red Cross. But the thing, the Red Cross has an obligation to call the Homeland Security and tell them that, okay, we rescue some some people in the ocean, and we have no idea of the illegal situation. So when they bring us back on the court, they hang us to the Homeland Security, to the border police that would now take us to a police station, do all the questioning and then bring us to chair. And did you figure

us over at that point back to back home? No, at that point we know we knew everything about immigration. You become an expert. Oh it's crazy how you what you can learn from being in the position. Like you can go to school for years and don't learn much, but when you're living in it, it's crazy how much you learn. We know all the immigration, all the countries that are allowed to deport every step along the way. We know what African country has a good relationship with

whush country. And then when we get there we are just like, oh, we are from Malie. When when we are in Algeria, everybody is from Malie because Malie and Algeria has a good relationship. So everybody in Algeria is from Mali. And you you better find yourself a Malian a Malian passport, yea, even if from our leader from Ali. Just look at some passport, looks at somebody who looks like you, gives it to you, and then you give

the money. And then when you get to Morocco, you're better off being a Senegalian than anything else because otherwise they're gonna send you in the desert every time. And then when they send you to the desert two three times, you realize that you have to find your way to be that Senegalles otherwise otherwise you're gonna keep going down to the desert and that trip. That trip is not fun. So you do what you have to do. You learn what you have to learn. It's not by choice, you're

forced to. So yeah, when we get in a Spain, we knew all those stuff and that was the first place that we were like, I mean, as a Cameroonian. You're very happy at that moment because like, we don't have it a deportation law, so when you say you're from Cameroon, they can't expect to depart you to Cameroon. So Spain more, Spain can do it. No, they cannot

do it. Yeah, if you're detained for a couple of months. Yeah, after we will be detained for two months days association than that, come and bear for us kind of and then the free us. You can stay there or you can leave. But at that time they don't want to stay in Spin. Some people stay in Spin. But I didn't want to stay in Spin because I have I was going somewhere. My best option would be like England.

But the problem with England, even though you're in Europe, you still need another authorization to get there, so it's pretty hard and then you have to go through the same process. I'm like, man, I'm tired. I'm not doing this anymore. I don't know how long it's gonna take, maybe a week or a month or a year. And I'm getting old. I was twenty seven, twenty seven months takeaway. Yeah, So then I decided to go to Germany because at

the time. Heavyweight boxing was very big in Germany with the clich Goo brother brothers and others, and I'm like, I'm going to Germany. For some reason, I stopped getting the bus that we stopped in Paris. Then I'm like, oh, let's spend some few days in Paris. And that was it. I was day in Paris. But I mean I felt very comfortable just then in Paris that I just wanted someplace with the opportunity to get where I wanted and to do what I want, you know, and this is

not bad. Let's just settle here, focused on the goal, on the dream. So once you once you're in Paris, how do you get how do you get into the UFC because your dreams to be a boxer? Yeah, Oh, a lot of things happened in Paris. When I went in Paris. The next day, I go out and look for a gym. I found this gym named the Kajin Kjein and I met a guy there named DJ Carmel and he was giving the class that day because the coach wasn't there. I explained everything to him and I'm like,

I just needed a place to train. I can't pay and he said he's going to speak to the coach on my behalf and see what he can do. So after three days he gave me a call and say, yes, it's good, you can come train. And that's where I started training. What did he call you? Right? Where are you staying? In the parking lot? We found a parking lot. I was sleeping in the parking lot. It was pretty cool. Listen. He wasn't about where I was staying. It wasn't about

the condition that I was living in. You know, by that time, I have seen so worse, so like from what I was doing, from what I've been through in Morocco, Like being in the parking lot was like being in the five style hotel though, like parking lot in Paris and you can't. Yeah, And the most important thing like the freedom, like the first time for so long that I feel free, like relax, you know, and I'm like, finally,

this is what I ever wanted. Like you might look at that like he's horrible, but I mean, so far is one of the best moments of my life. The moment that you come with hope. I'm like, this is the opportunity that I've been wanted. Now I get it. You know, so the ball is ont of it. Yeah, and that's the first day. Yeah, I'm like, this is it. I always seek for this opportunity. I have it. I mean, it's not about where I'm sleeping now, but it's where

I'm going to be sleeping. So you that coach who wasn't even the coach at the gym, he talks to the guy that owner on your behalf and yeah, he talked to the coach and then he called me. And then when I come there, he was always around trying to like help me, support me, give me close. I mean by the way, Like he was the the one that gave me my first apartment. Yeah, from the street. I went to his apartment. He has some apartment that he was putting in the rent and he gave me

these two months and then I found my way. And he was the one that like gave me my He brought me to the sneaker shop and like choose one pair of sneaker, my first, my first sneaker in Paris. Like he was around a lot, you know, he was around a lot, helped me, being very supportive. What did they think of your boxing scale? He was the one telling me about MMA because like. He was also a big guy. So in the gym, I was sparring with him and he would tell me like how good my

boxing is and how much potential I have. But if I transit into MMA, I'll be having the fastest income regarding my situation, you know. And that was the first time that I'm like that I've heard from MM. And then I'm like, what is MMA? He hadn't explained me. Yeah, I didn't know what was M me And this was like what sometime by the end of the end of June or early twenty twenty thirteen. Yeah, then keep pushing. I'm like, no, bro, I don't want any of that.

I just want like, yeah, I like boxing, like sweet boxing, those wrestling staff ground I place. Yeah, what convinced your family? What convinced you? So the gym was close during the holiday or during August, the entire amount of August, so I was looking for some place to keep training. And then I asked the manager of the association that I want to go next door see if they have a boxing class day because I want to keep training. We have a good relationship. I can't talk on your behalf,

you know. Then I'm like yes, So he went there, met a guy named the guy that was in the fronds, I think it was a part or no named Frank, very nice guy. He just came. I'm like, yes, we like, we would like to have him and this and that, and that's how he started because that was an MMA gym. So I went there and keep doing boxing and come to MMA class a lot of MMA because he was entertaining. I was having fun training practice, but I didn't want

anything to do with MMA career and people. I'm like, yes, USC these or if you do this, you're gonna be in the vis or you're gonna become a weird UFCA champion one day. I'm like, what do I care about USA or being a UFC champion? At that moment, I didn't care at all. Like I was so focused on boxing that I don't want like anybody or anything to deviate me from my dream. Yea, and dream was specific.

It was dream was very specific. But you know, things kind of like putting meself alone, like one by one, step by step, and like two years after even without really like focusing on MMA, and then I have a UFCA contract. That was the moment that I'm like, okay, well, how you get the contract? When we come back from our final break, Francis talks about how we got iss UFC contract and going on to become the heavyweight champion of the world. Hold on, well, how you get the contract?

Two years after after a shoot MMA fight, that's when I have it. I was like six after six fights in MMA, six fights? He didn't did you do those thinking wanting the contract? Did you do those more just for fun? No? First he was to stay active. Then at some point I started getting paid a little bit. I mean it was more than welcome those little check what we're getting paid? What was like? What were the checks at that time? Oh? My first check was a tournament.

I fought twice in the same night and get paid two thousand year twice in the same night. Though, that's why get paid two thousand year O. That was my first check. Then after that I get fight for three hundred eight hundred until like I fought in Bahrain for six thousand. That was my biggest CHECKO. And that was my second fight in the octagon in Bahrain, Barrain. Yeah.

Then right after that UFC. It was until then that I realized that okay, this might be the opportunity, Like what was my goal at first to become a world champion in the combat spot? This is it. This might not be a bosing. This is a combat spot, and I can also become a world champion. You sound accountable. I'm a big moment. That's a big moment. Yeah, I

mean I realized that this is the opportunity. But the thing that I was more scaled, you know, it was it was the two years that I wasn't really committed to the spot then then I wasn't really like I didn't really feel it, you know, no experience in the combat sport. Like I remember even being in Orlando for my first fight, I was asking myself, like, what is the rules? What are the rules of this sport? I

really don't know. I'm like, man, I'm going to fight in the world stage in the spot and I don't even know the rules, you know, Like in my mind, I was just like, WHOA, I hope this was a boxing fight because I was so comfortable in boxing that I wouldn't care if it was a boxing I wouldn't have to think about stuff, but I wouldn't have to think about the rules that allowed that I have to think on a lot of things, and he was I didn't have those massy memory yet, you know, like now

I would do stuff instantly even without thinking about it. Back then, I had to think about everything that I am doing, you know, like okay, what about this? What about this? If this happened, how do I do this? You know, like just when you start something, you think too much about it. That was what happened? Was your strategy maybe then to just try on that first fight, to try to keep it just boxing, like we were like,

maybe I'll trug when it's only on box. I knew that I was I was the guy wasn't going to box me. Basically he was a wrestler. Oh, he was a wrestler and jiujitsu guy. Like, so, how did that fight go? How did that first fight go? Well? First round we struggled some wrestling, I got took down once and then defend like fourth takedown. I think he he was clear that he didn't want anything to do with me, like, uh,

striking like he was just punching. No, he was just shooting in my leg, shooting my leg, trying to trip you take it down, yes, and then when he's there he will stay there like forever. And then after like four or five times, he get exhausted, you know, like when you're trying to take somebody down over and over, you get exhausted. So in the middle of the second round get knocked out. You knocked him out, Yeah, and

knocked him out like badly. At that point, you're kind of squarely, you're firmly in the world of UFC, and you're kind of unstoppable, right. Well, that was the beginning. That was just the beginning, because like I was staying in Paris at that time. After that, then I keep fighting and everything was going good, Like I won my first six fight in the UFA, then get to the to the title fight, then lost in the title that would have my first loss in the title trying to

become the world champion essentially, how tell me about that fight? Well, um, because now you get into the real dream to be world champion in a combat sport, and this is the fight that's going to determine it. Yeah, you know, there's

a difference between the dream and the reality. I have all those dreams and then I was getting in the octagon, getting all those easy fight knock people out in the first first minute, get performance of the night every time, So it was quite easy, and I didn't really understand like the sport didn't have an experience. They didn't even know how they train or how they get prepared for that level of fight. So kind of like get everything wrong on that tirefight, that first one, and so far

I think it's the best. Is the best experience that I have in my career. Is the best fight in my career the one I lost because like even though I didn't the outcome wasn't what I wanted. But what I have learned from that fight led me to become the champion today. As I always I always say, like if I didn't lost to stip It the first time, I could have easily lost to step It a second time. But I learned. I learned a lot from that fight

than any or the fight. Can you walk with you the fight then and what you're learning as best to remember it is, I remember everything, but it's very hard to explain. First of all, like I was, I was under this pressure, and the worst thing is that I didn't even know that I was under the pressure until I get in the fight and the way that I was acting. Then I watched the tape after and then I'm like, what the hell is this guy? It looks like me, but it's not me, Like that's not how

I do. But yes, you're pretty calm in the ring, right, like you're a calming In that fight, I wasn't calm at all. I was going all over throwing, like I went there to basically like with the intention to knock him out, which is something that I've never done, even though I have a lot of knockout he just I just let it come on his own. But I never like worked there to knock somebody out. And that was the first time I think, like I thought I just gonna walk walk him through and knock him out, and

it didn't work. And it was nerves, not confidence or both. He was nerves, he was pressure, he was everything. And to be honest, when I look at how I get prepared into that fight, he wasn't a right way. I have never fought three round five, so that was a five round five. You know, I have to go through five rounds. I literally, like really never get punched into five before then then I have to get hit a

lot in that fight. And I was so exhausted that at some point I'm like, Wow, I think this guy is just not strong enough to finish me because I have nothing less. Wow. So it's just like the first time that I've heard you kind of admit to yourself in your head that like maybe I don't have I can't get it done. Maybe I can't get it done. Oh no, I mean you can't fool everybody, but you can't fool yourself. Yeah. I know exactly what happened in that fight. I know that I couldn't move my body anymore.

At some point, I was just so exhausted. I couldn't just like give up, but I was done. In the aftermath of that, What was the feedback you were getting from like just the UFC, the fighting community. Oh, you know, it was like my downfall. I think people was expecting too much from me that they get disappointed and a lot of people get pissed off. And he was very hot.

Like I remember at some point I couldn't open even my social media for like weeks because when I when I opened it, I would just see some main command or some main article or something, and I'm like, damn, you know, get out of it. You know, I get to the point that I'm like, I don't care what these people said. Yeah, they don't do anything with their life. They don't have a dream, then they have never done anything. Their only day is like to hit on people. I

like them. I mean, I'm not doing bad. I fight so hard to get here, and it doesn't matter what happened. At least I have tried and I have done something, and I have tried so hard. You know, I have to make that immense with myself to be able to move on. And therefore, I think I was stronger than before because I understand that or the element that I didn't know was like the opinion, the people opinion or the media or whatever is it. You know, I just learned how to focus on me and what I have

to do. If he works, good, if he doesn't, it's okay. As long as I know that I give my best. I'm good with that. Therefore, I don't give a shite of what anybody think. If you're with me, good, If you're not good luck yeah yeah yeah. So after that little bit of not be able to open your social media looking your wounds a little bit, at that point, I'm sure, how do you bounce back where he gave me mentally like I went to my next fight. Then that where I realized that I haven't dealed with my

previous fight because I was in my next fight. I mean, honest, I never show up in my next fight, you know, because I was there to fighting, trying to correct the mistake from the past fight. Like, oh, I should have been more patient than I was too patient, over patient because I blame myself too much from Russian I was just like, okay, hold back like yourself become you have all the time. And then like I didn't even believe when the fight was over, like because I didn't really fight,

I was mentally not there. That's a beautiful way of putting it, that you didn't even show up to that I didn't show up. I was in the middle of the last one. Yeah, I was in the middle of the cage, was thinking of my last fight with my opening in front of me, was thinking of my last fight. I kind of like understand now why Because I was so concerned about what people think. I didn't have any confidence on me anymore, and I wasn't even doing it

for me. There was so much pressure on my shoulder at the time that the spot that I started for fun get to the point that he wasn't fun anymore. Then after my second loss, that was the moment that I'm like, okay, why am I year all? They started because it was fun. I went to the gym the first time and keep going in the MMA gym because I was having fun. Am I having fun anymore? No? I'm just thinking about what people are thinking of me, what this guy's thinking of me? Why do I care?

And I tell myself, like, okay, if this is it, let it end on my way, you know, have fun. And that's how I walked to my next fight. I'm like, Okay, if I lost, it's okay. As long as I have phone, I go out there, don't care about losing, because like, you care so much about losing that you don't fight anymore. When you start care about losing, you don't fight. That's what happened in my second loss, Like I was so concerned about losing that I didn't fight because I didn't

want to lose. This is a difference between going and anything with the idea of I don't want to fail, and going into something the idea that I want to succeed, Like you were going into there saying I don't want to fail. The problem is that when you don't want to fail, you're not taking a chance to succeed, right, You're timid. Yeah, you have to take a chance to

fail in order to succeed. You know, we talked about your your loss to steep A. You eventually got a chance to challenge them and beat them and become a world champion, and to defend that and win that defense. Your contract in the UFC's up next month, December twenty twenty two. And it's an interesting position. I'd say you find yourself in from my advantage point, and you may disagree. You're in a sport that you sort of fell into

a lucky way. Luckily you fell into MMA, but your dream was in a way, to always be a boxer. You're you're lucky to become a world champion. You put in the work, you sort of fulfilled what you can do in UFC. The pay disparity between what UFC fighters make and what boxers stand to make is very different. Do you feel yourself in a position where it's like you're almost overqualified for the UFC. It's like you you've done a lot. No, No, not overqualified. I think if

you say overqualified is misspoken. But there's more you can do in a way, there's more you can earn, you're earning potentials. Yeah, but no, the problem is not how UFC fighter get paid over over boxers, you know, Like, it's not about how much you're making, and it's not mostly about the amount of the money. It's about what is on the table, the part that you're getting, what you're getting of the whole pie. Right, Yes, so what

you're getting of the whole pie. I mean, I don't expect anybody to take money out of his pocket to pay me, right, I'm just saying what we do together, if he provide something, treat me fairly. I'm not here to compare my salary into boxing or to world. Back in the days on Fighter, the fighters was fighting for less than what we're fighting today. Some of them was paying fairly, And today I can be paying most and think I'm not getting paid fairly because I just think

we're generating more than the sport. The job that we're doing is generating more than he was. That's it. That's it. So it's not like overqualified. You can be overqualified for a sport. Do you feel like you have a decision to make to reap with the UFC or try something else. Yeah, I know what what I want to do. For sure. I always see myself in the UFCA, you know, like maybe thinking of at some point be the bridge between the UFC and Africa. Take those opportunity back. Maybe the

ambassador kind of like represent the brand in Africa. So this as a proof of my commitment to the company, you know. Yeah. So now I still wish, I still hope for that, but I think something are broken and need to be fixed. I have a short time in the combat spot and I want to maximize it and then until the day that I don't feel like doing it anymore, then I step away, I walk away and do something else, whatever it's possible to do. I'm sure we're going to do it down the road. Yeah yeah, yeah, man,

Francis and Down, thank you for taking the time. Man, I you it's it's an incredible life story. You have incredible insights, and yeah, it's just honored man, Thank you, thank you for having me. Since my conversation with Francis and Gon who he's let his UFC contract laps and is eyeing a match with one of boxing's biggest names, Tyson, Fury, and Ghan was ready to bet on himself again, this time to achieve his childhood dream of becoming a world

class boxer. Betting on yourself, of course, isn't the easiest thing to do. There's a lot of room for failure, but as Francis is noting, there's also room for exponential growth. Started from the Bottom is produced by David Jaw, edited by Keishaw Williams, Engineered by Benaliday, Booked by Laura Morgan with production help from Lea Rose. The show's executive produced by Jacob Boldstein, who's not all up in the videos for Pushkin Industries. Our theme music's by Benaliday and David

Jaw featuring Anthony Aggs and Stvannah Joe Lack. Listen to Start It from the Bottom. Wherever you get your podcasts and if you want ad free episodes available one week early sign up for Pushkin Plus. Check out Pushkin dot fm or the Apple show page for more information. If you like your show, please remember to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app. I'm justin Richmond,