En ny HBO original serie från Frank Herberts episka innovation och romanen Sisterhood of June. True power begins with control. Sisterhood above all. Streama nu på Max. Slös en massa timmar på mejlormar och sammanställningar. Det är inte Telia. Men att ha en pålitlig AI-assistent från Microsoft, det...
Det är Telia. Microsoft 365 Copilot är framtiden för små och medelstora företag. När du skaffar dig hos Telia får du inte bara verktyget utan även en trygg partner som hjälper dig att komma igång och verkligen få ut max av det. Så när du tänker på AI, tänk stort! Och när du vill att det ska funka från dag ett, tänk Telia. Welcome to StarTalk. Your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide. StarTalk begins right now.
I'm your host, Neil deGrasse Tyson. I'm an astrophysicist at the American Museum of Natural History's Hayden Planetarium. And I've got with me my co-host, Eugene Merman. Eugene, thanks for being here. It's great to be here. Give me some love for Eugene.
I'm your host, Neil deGrasse Tyson. I'm an astrophysicist. It's the American Museum of Natural History's Hayden Planetarium. And I've got with me my co-host, Eugene Merman. Eugene, thanks for being here. It's great to be here. Give me some love for Eugene. Yeah. You're a professional comedian? And you're a voice on Bob's Burgers. Yeah. Yeah, you get around. I do. I do. I do at least two things. Maybe more.
So, thanks for doing this. We're on TV now. I know. It's good. Very exciting. Normally we do this on the radio and he's unshaven, he's a little sloppy. I've never seen the guy this neat. You have a claw for a hand, but look. Science. Today, you know what our topic is? Science fiction. Science fiction movies. You got any favorite movies? I do. I love... Well, one, I love science fiction. But...
I'd say a lot of superhero movies. Star Trek. Superhero. You want to be a superhero. I don't know that I want... I don't want the responsibility. Oh, okay. It is a big responsibility to be a superhero. If you believe even half, even if they have to do basically like a quarter of the stuff they have to do in the movies, it's exhausting. Exactly. Is it Star Trek? Star Trek.
Yeah, I love time travel. Because there are ways to do time travel that are astrophysically legitimate. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Those are my favorite. Sometimes I'll watch a time travel thing and be like, pretty realistic. Tonight we're featuring... My interview with Christopher Nolan. Christopher Nolan. He came through town.
Ja. Och jag snarade honom och putt honom i min office. Och jag milked honom för 40 minuter. Du inte kan se alla 40 minuter. Du har han ta en top och spinn det? Ja, du har sett alla de his movies. Jag har sett många av his movies. Inception, right? To know whether you're... Whether you're dreaming or in the fifth world, I don't know. So, of course, we talked about how he thinks about time and space. And that would have been enough just to talk about Inception. But...
His most recent movie is Interstellar. Where it's more not only time and space it's especially relativity. Now I know some relativity. Yeah. Okay. But I don't know it. How much in comparison? You know, I do some relativity. I can do that. However, I don't count myself as an expert in relativity. I have to reach out into the ether. och vi gjorde just det med min special guest, Janna Levin. Janna, välkommen till StarTalk. Thank you. So glad to be here. Janna Levin is...
Professor of Physics and Astronomy at Barnard College. And Janet, you're like all grown up. Because when I first met you, you were an undergraduate at Columbia. I was just telling somebody I didn't think you remembered that. Oh yeah, she was like, she was just a little girl. She was so cute. It's true. What you majoring in? I was so little. You're a professor.
Jag är en expert på Relativt och Cosmology. Ja, det är rätt. Jag har lagt upp till dig, Neil. Du var lagt upp till dig. Du var lagt upp till dig, Neil. Du var lagt upp till dig. Det var i past tense. Jag lagt upp till dig. Jag lagt upp till dig.
So you're a full-fledged cosmologist, and people pay you to do this. Yeah, yeah. I get paid to do relativity. To do relativity. You think about black holes and the birth of the universe. And so you're like the right person to think about and talk about. Well, we'll see how it goes.
We'll see. Okay. Janet, you have stars on your... I do. You know, I knew you were going to wear a thematic tie. I just knew you were, so I thought I would match the sort of... This is a black hole. I know no one... That's... And it is... Spherical. With a horizon. I didn't know where our conversation would go tonight, but I have every possible cosmic object on this tie, including a wormhole and black holes and galaxies.
And this is the best way to wear if you're eating lasagna, because if something just falls on you, it's just another nebula. You know, you would never know from it. What we want to really talk about is the science of the film Interstellar. You've seen Interstellar. I did. Absolutely. And it's quite an orgy of relativity. Yeah, would you say when...
When Matthew McConaughey cries, would you be like, is that physically, that's realistic? Is that physically plausible? Within the realm of physics is that. Yeah, that was the part that I was not examining scientifically. So what I did was when I started talking to Christopher Nolan, he's not himself a scientist. He's a movie director and producer. But I always like knowing if there's some influence, some teacher. somebody who sensitized you to this whole world of science. Let's find out.
I think a lot of my interest in physics is from when I was about 10. And I was really watching the original Cosmos. Oh. That was huge impact on me. Oh, you're so young. Oh my gosh. I'm so young. Exactly. Well, it was post-Star Wars, you know, that late 70s when the shuttle was about to go up for the first time. So it was in the air. It was absolutely everywhere. The original Cosmos was 1980 with Carl Sagan. And I remember watching that avidly. So you were feeling it.
Oh yeah, feeling it in a big way. And I think, I mean, it's a testament to the kinds of things that you're doing and so many people are doing educationally. But I think really that 10, 11-year-old, you know, you get really fascinated by it. What I found in school was... I reached a point where the mathematics became a burden. And I wasn't as interested in mathematics as I was in English and writing and that kind of thing. And so it's where physics starts to depend more on the math. I sort of...
Det är en fair point. I mean, there's a lot of good physics that you can follow just because it's really cool to think about. Exactly. Right, and after that, you're kind of done, right, and go on with the rest of your life. But at least it was in there, percolating.
Yeah, very much. I remember all those great experiments on Newton's laws you do with rolling little lead balls down the slides and things. Back when they made things out of lead. Exactly. Before we knew they would make us stupid and kill us all. Christopher Nolan. So he studied English literature in college. And so one of my big things is to get more artists interested in science.
So that they can fold the science into their art and take us to new places. Yeah, absolutely. And you, like, wrote a novel. Oh, yeah. I did see that. You're a professor, a cosmologist. Not to be confused with cosmetologist. Just to be clear. All right. But you wrote a novel. But that's some artistic expression. I mean I think that this idea that we have to choose at some stage in our lives is kind of silly. You know we go through this process where suddenly we have. Du har att...
We're going to be one thing or the other. When actually most of us are really a combination of those things. Christopher Nolan is right. It's the equations that really make science so dreary. Oh no. The math is so beautiful. I do understand. It's not saying it's not beautiful. It just is.
It's such a way in and it's such an exciting part of it. I love doing the mathematics and I think that is exactly the fork in the road. You get to that fork in the road where you're mesmerized by the universe. You discover the math. You either hate it or you love it. You get to the fork in the road and you pick it up. You pick up the fork? Pick up the fork. Yogi Berra. Sounds very meta. Yeah. So the mathematics for you, apparently not for Eugene, is... Let's just say not for...
Ett tack till mina supporters via Patreon! Bask in the majesty of the cosmos. I mean, I love logarithms. I'm not an idiot. You love logarithms to the base E. I love them to base 4, base 7, and 12. Boom! I might be safe. Textning Stina Hedin www.btistudios.com
You part the curtains, this veil of the beauty of the universe, and there is the machinery operating. There is the language. Yeah, no, I get we wouldn't have like stoves and electricity and fridges and stuff and cars. I'm very happy with science. I'm not at all against it. Textning Stina Hedin www.btistudios.com
You know, you're at the chalkboard and you follow the chalk. Oh, what's a chalkboard? I still have one. You still have a chalkboard. Actually, I have one too. I saved one from a demolition. Yeah, yeah, they're historical relics. You know, with Christopher Nolan, he opened a new portal to... ...movie-making and storytelling. That scientists are people too. Scientists are people too. I think about any sci-fi movie from the 50s. Who is the scientist? Is the crazy person behind in the lab coat?
Wiery hair. You don't care if they're in love. You don't care if they have kids. It's only in the 70s when scientists started to have feelings. And almost always the scientist is like co-opted by a bad person or the scientist themselves. och vill ta över den världen och styrka den världen. Och inintrascientist savet det dag.
Not politicians, it's not leaders, it's just people who get the job done and who know their math and physics. And so that was... And of course you know in the plot line they visit an exoplanet. And we recently had the announcement of a whole boatload of exoplanets discovered by the Kepler telescope. By the way, that was not an accidental discovery of the telescope. It was conceived, designed, and built.
...to discover Earth-like planets around sun-like stars. So the fact that this catalog exists with such richness of what could be twins to Earth is not itself a surprise. But the fact that so many planets do exist, I'm ready. Give me the list. And the day we can travel through space, we know the order of planets that we might. Do we have an order now of planets we'd go to? Well, there are planets. That's a great question. So there are planets.
att du kan säga att det är om Earth-sizeden, så vi kan få en tillbaka i den här boxen. Är det en atmosfera? Vi inte riktigt vet det ännu, men om det är en bra idé. Kan du breatha den atmosfera? Är det planeten rätt distanser från sitt host star? Så Janet, do you have a way to get to one? No, we really don't have a very good theoretical way. I mean, we know that...
Even if you travel at the speed of light, the nearest exoplanets are a certain number of light-years away. So even traveling at the speed of light-years, you're going pretty slowly. But light-years, like 10,000 or like 7? Well, I think, no, actually, I think really... ...quite close to us. Maybe within a few hundred light years we should be having a healthy number of exoplanets. Yeah, so if you draw a couple hundred year...
Ja. Sphere. Sphere. Så det kan bli 100 år. Only if you're going actually at the speed of light. And by comparison, Voyager, which has gone the furthest of any human-made object, is just breaking out of the Earth's solar influence. It'll be 10,000 years before it... att det kommer tillbaka tillbaka tillbaka tillbaka tillbaka tillbaka tillbaka.
We're more interesting than the planets themselves. The moon Io and Europa and all of these moons, they have volcanoes and some of them have atmospheres and lakes of methane. And so you're right, we're no longer restricted to planets. Excellent, so the net that we cast in the search for life as we know it. Textning Stina Hedin www.btistudios.com
...kook your gonads. It's otherwise a really good place to start civilization. Jupiter has a very strong magnetic field and it traps dangerous particles. That's why the movie We Didn't Go to Jupiter. Well, actually, I don't know if you remember from your chemistry class. In your chemistry class, remember that mysterious chart of boxes in the front of the room?
The periodic table of elements. So in there, did you remember that hydrogen appeared on the left and on the right? Did anybody remember that? It's in two places. And the left-hand side are like... ...or metals, and the right-hand side are nonmetals. Hydrogen, depending on the conditions under which you find it, can behave as though it's a metal. As well as a gas. And...
Hydrogen behaves as a metal in the core of the planet Jupiter, where it's under so much pressure that the configuration of the atoms is such that it can move electrons around just the way a metal does, and it can conduct electricity. And if you can conduct electricity, you can create a dynamo. If you can create a dynamo, you can create an awesome magnetic field. What's a dynamo?
Dynamo, do you want to take this? No, no, please. I'm digging your explanation. So if you can, if you, in a rotating system, you can send up... You can create electrical currents inside wherever you conduct electricity. And wherever you have moving charges, you can create an electric field. And with the electric field, you have an attendant magnetic field. And so you can drive magnetic forces with this.
But if they didn't have anything magnetic inside, you wouldn't have poles, you wouldn't have a magnetic... The Earth has a dynamo. Bits of strong evidence we had something metallic in the center was that Earth has a magnetic field. We have an iron core. Yeah, exactly. But it's a weak one. So there are things like... It's weak.
There are things like neutron stars, which have magnetic fields a trillion times the magnetic field of the Earth. A trillion times. A trillion or more, or a thousand trillion times the magnetic field of the Earth. So it would be yanking nails out of your shoes and things. Yeah, you don't want to go near them. But they can make these electric fields. Det är en magnet, det är en neutron star, det är en dead star, en cloud star.
That would be the main risk. And then it would be burning right away. Yeah. And yeah, you'd basically be liquefied on the surface because the gravity is so strong. Yeah, yeah. So ignoring the fact that the gravity is so strong, it would liquefy you. Right. Det är en väldigt bad magnetic field. Och det är väldigt hot.
Ja, det betyder på hur olden är. De är inte hot som stars. Men de är hotter än en mikrowav. Ja, det är en vart komparisoner. Jag tror att det är en vart. Wait, wait, Eugene. Mikrowavavans inte get hot. Det är bara det. Det är bara det. Okej, du är right. Vad kind of microwave ovens do you have? I picked the worst example. Convection oven? No, but what they do beautifully is they act like a lighthouse because of that big magnetic field so that you can see these neutron stars.
Textning Stina Hedin www.btistudios.com ...from where those spinning neutron stars are. We call them pulsars. When StarTalk returns, we'll learn about matter and energy, which Relativity says distorts the fabric of space and time. It's a fundamental element in the film. Interstellar. Not only in where they go in the universe, but where he goes with his plotlines. When we come back to StarTalk! Och romanen Sisterhood of June. True power begins with control.
Sisterhood above all. Streama nu på Max. Slös en massa timmar på mejlormar och sammanställningar. Det är inte Telia. Men att ha en pålitlig AI-assistent från Microsoft, det... Med Telia. Microsoft 365 Copilot är framtiden för små och medelstora företag. När du skaffar dig hos Telia får du inte bara verktyget utan även en trygg partner som hjälper dig att komma igång och verkligen få ut max av det. Så när du tänker på AI, tänk stort! Och när du vill att det ska funka från dag ett, tänk Telia.
Less can never be more på Sveriges största jackpotcasino. Fler spel, mer spänning. More is more på hyper.com. 18 plus regler och villkor på hyper.com. We're back. Right here in the Rose Center for Earth and Space. The Hall of the Universe. So many names for one giant room. Well, if it's the center of the universe, you need, you got to reference it somehow. I'm just saying.
I've got Eugene Merman, my co-host, Professor Jana Levin. Welcome to StarTalk. You are a cosmologist. This is your expertise. For today's show we're talking about relativity, the universe. Everything that you are an expert in. On a daily basis. I just dabble in relativity. It is what you do. It is. It is. Well. We're featuring my interview with Chris Nolan. And of course we talked about.
Just his, how he thinks about time and space. Mm-hmm. And I just wanted to know from him what's going on in his head that leads him to creating such twisted realities. Let's find out. I'm interested in, I call it sort of geometry or topology. You know, it's those kind of things. Not the mathematics of it. That's lost on me. But just the idea of, well filmmaking itself. It's this weird combination of.
Two-dimensional images representing three dimensions and then you add time and editing and camera blocking and structure, the way all those things work. They just get you thinking about... Det är bara, jag tror att det är författningarna. Och det är där det är författningarna av filmen och filmen kraften är intressant.
So as I started to make films, I got more interested in addressing that in the narrative itself. And it just pushes you to think. If you put it in narrative, it means it's a deeper part of the story. Yeah. Rather than just some flashy. Ja, och du började att tänka på vad det betyder för dig. Och vad du vill ha att displace en chronologi, vad du vill ha att ta en story med en beginning, en middle och en end, men inte i den ordet. Och det gott mig att tänka på hur vi tar stories i...
We don't get it beginning, middle and end. We were in a newspaper. It gives us the headline version. Man bites dog. Then it starts to fill in all the details. And then you get another version of the story the next day. And you get more details and everything. And I thought.
Why make films that just give you the beginning, middle and end in a linear form when that's not really the way we experience life in a funny sort of way. And it's way more intriguing that way. I think so. Now I have to think more deeply. I have to pay closer attention. Yeah, so he's messing with time. Jana, what is time? Simple. One sentence or less. Yeah, it is actually one of the most elusive aspects of physics.
Or life. Or of life, psychologically. But even physically, we know that there is this sort of clock. The clock never stops. We never turn around and go back. We can never accidentally go the wrong direction in time. It's always pushing us forward.
And yet we sort of imagine it almost spatially. We almost imagine it like a dimension. But I can't look forward in that dimension the way I can look left. And I can't turn around and look back in that dimension the way I can look right. And so that aspect of why time is different from a dimension. ...remains persistently confusing. Okay, so then now we start twisting time. And no one thought to do that until Einstein, I guess. Is that a fair...?
I mean, people may have imagined it culturally, but it wasn't actually on the table as a viable possibility until Einstein. And it is a viable possibility. We know that my clock can run differently from your clock. And that there can be a difference between... Not only our psychological perception of time, but our biological perception of time.
Our clocks are not going to run differently if we're in the same place at the same time. No, they're not. But if you're in two different places? Then you have to ask, what's different about those two places? If I'm higher up in a building. If I'm in the space station.
If I'm near a black hole, my clock will run differently than yours. The further away I am from the earth, the faster my clock will appear to run relative to yours. So if I go to a black hole and have a sandwich and then come right back, how long will... Civilization has come and gone. So if you fold relativity into a storytelling narrative, now time can be legitimately altered and warped.
Sure. For the purposes of your plotlines. So is Interstellar realistic, but Star Trek IV The Voyage Home a little unrealistic? Well, I honestly don't remember The Voyage Home, but I can tell you. How could you not remember The Voyage Home?
And they saved the whales, right? And humanity. It might be the one I never saw. I think I didn't like that they came back to the present. It wasn't the most exciting one in the canon. Yeah, they did come back to the present. They traveled backwards in time. I wanted them to be in the future.
The thing about going near a black hole, yes, you can absolutely go incredibly close to a black hole. I think I once asked how close they had to be in interstellar. It was something like a millionth the size of the event horizon of the shadow. Like you had to be just really on top of it. What I'm saying is in the film Yeah They go near a black hole Yeah Close enough to a black hole that the strength of gravity is so high Yes That
Time goes so slowly. Yes. What is it? One hour at this black hole planet. I thought it was like 23 years. It's like 20 years. Something like that. Yeah. It would be. That is the actual math of it. Yeah, you can calculate how close you'd have to get for that to happen. No, the thing is, is that their experience of time is completely normal. Just to be clear, any time difference you want to write a story around, you can calculate.
What's the strength of gravity that would give you that time difference? So there you go. Right, so their experience of time is completely normal. They have this very rushed... ...hours to try to get back away from the black hole. And many years have passed relative to the Earth. In the film, Anne Hathaway's character... ...sad the most perceptive thing about it. That when there's this difference in your rate of your clocks ticking, time itself...
It becomes a commodity. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And it's like a natural resource. A natural resource. You go down to the black hole. Your time is ticking so slowly. You're at risk of when you come back.
That your kids are now dying in their deathbed. The things you care about that are motivating you to go near the black hole in the first place. Because I don't know why you would really want to do that. All your favorite bands are gone. Right, all of that is gone. And that is actually a really powerful moment in the film. be as realistic as...
The question of whether or not they would have enough fuel to execute these things. This becomes very expensive. What about living for a long time in a bookcase? Is that realistic? Ask Neil. Neil, can you live behind a bookcase? If you're an astronaut, never mind. So, but it's one thing to have time tick at different rates. It's another thing. Textning Stina Hedin www.btistudios.com
The physical laws will protect us from that, that there will be some barrier to being able to do that. In other words, you're saying some people think there's a yet-to-be-discovered physical law that will declare. In our revelation of this law. Thou shalt not go back in time.
And prevent your parents from meeting. If your parents don't meet. Then you're not born. Then you can't have gone back in time. To have prevented them from meeting. So it's actually technically possible. In the context of relativity to do this. Like there are mathematical proofs. That if Einstein's there.
Relativity is the whole story. Then there are certain situations in which you can absolutely go back in time. And this is really problematic. But you're presuming that you have the will to go and stop your parents from meeting. And maybe you can't do things like have will and volition that's inconsistent with the laws of physics. Maybe you can't do that. It may be that you don't...
...purposedly stop them from meeting, you do something else that changes all the history of the future of the world. You're literally describing Back to the Future right now. But I understand we can pretend you're not. But given that, you can get very interesting plotlines, such as what was in The Terminator, Terminator 1, 2, and 3, and all of these time travel movies. Well, coming up, we'll learn about one of the most twisted... Plotlines imaginable. Travelling through a wormhole. On StarTalk.
We're back. StarTalk. In the heart of New York City, the American Museum of Natural History, I'm your host, Neil deGrasse Tyson, of course. Jana. Professor Jana. I'm so glad to be here. Yeah, thanks. We're talking about... Interstellar. Ja. The film. And one of the most important plot elements, scientific elements, storytelling elements, is the existence of and their journey through a wormhole.
And in fact, we've got an image of a wormhole. Let's check it out. Oh yeah. The wormhole is a portal through space and time. In this particular case, we're actually seeing what's on the other side of the wormhole come through us. through the hole, through the channel optically. And that hole leads to another place. So we both know one of the advisors, one of the science advisors, the lead science advisor of the film Interstellar, Kip Thorne. Kip Thorne, the wonderful...
amazing, fascinating Kip Thornton. He's brilliant. I'll take your word for it. I like this Kip person already. No, you should have said, wait, I found an error in one of his papers. That was your cue for that. I'll find it. That's where they hide the money. So Kip Thorne, he's an expert on relativity. I have a book in my office. ...co-authored by him. The title of the book is Gravitation. And it's like a zillion pages thick. And we always joked, it's the only...
...subject you ever learned about just by carrying the textbook around. So let's find out what Christopher Nolan had to say about working with Kip Thorne on Interstellar. We were talking about the wormhole because it was always in the script.
Because he's a wormhole guy. He's a wormhole guy. And I was sitting there talking to him about it. He put the wormhole in contact. Yeah. Yeah. No, he is Mr. Wormhole. Yeah, yeah. Kip Wormhole Thorne. Yeah, it's on his business card. Exactly. Wormhole, talk to me. I said to him, we were talking about the... Det är inte ett håll, det är en sphere.
Och det är förstås det är det här. Det är en hel del i tre dimensioner. Nej, det är inte förstås om det för den resten. Oh, hans, du explikated det. Hans, no, för att jag var, om vi kan göra det som vi kan göra det som vi kan göra det som vi kan göra det som vi kan göra det som jag gjorde i det momenten. You can have a hole in three dimensions? Yes.
That's a terrifying concept and really cool. The fact that you can approach it from any direction and disappear inside of it. Yeah, really cool. Because a hole in the pavement, you know, a manhole cover, that's a hole you fall through, but that's a hole in a surface, which is a circle. A hole in three dimensions is a sphere. And so that was brilliantly done and gave you a feeling that it's a hole that you can enter from any direction. A lot of what I dealt with Kip, when you get into the...
...fine detaljer, att man ska försöka dig ner till det här. Det är en point där Kip får gå... ...så att det är hur vi let you guys think of it. Och han är den lasten... Han är inte exclusionärer på sin science... There's just a point where he's sort of like, look, you have to trust me on this. It's like we give you a sort of simple model of it and try and make it accessible in that way. And then if you dig too deep in that, you have to go to the next level. And the next level is...
Exponentially. Right, right. Yeah, you don't want to have to go there. No, you don't want to have to go there. Right. Because algebra will be involved. So Jan, a madam cosmologist. Yes. I love what they did here was to make the portal three-dimensional. But because we're in a three-dimensional space-time, you need a three-dimensional portal to move from all these three dimensions to a different...
We like to imagine from three dimensions things that are lesser dimensions. It's a lot easier to visualize. We all love imagining six dimensions. It's really hard. Let's give it a try. Let's all try it right now. This is going to take a while. Not bad.
I'm not sure if I'm remembering this correctly but I think in the movie they make reference to actually higher dimensional spaces that in the movie it's not just a whole three dimensional universe that there is something that they're calling a bulk which is a higher dimensional universe in which these three dimensions So the notion that you can fall into something from any direction, that alone boggles the mind.
It's a three-dimensional hole. And that hole leads to another place. It can be a lot bigger on the inside than it is on the outside. We've heard that before. She's showing her Doctor Who street cred. The TARDIS is bigger on the inside than on the outside. Is the TARDIS realistic when you're describing it as realistic? Oh, very realistic. Excellent. Well, for being a fourth dimensional...
story, it's really realistic. Once you add that context, everything becomes quite reasonable. So, what are wormholes good for? You have one? You know, wormholes, although they're probably theoretically possible, är physically, as far as we know, still impossible. Meaning to keep the throat open of the wormhole, you need forms of matter and energy that we've never seen before. We don't know anything that could actually keep the throat open of the wormhole. So it'll kind of keep closing up.
So it's unstable. It's very unstable. Meaning if we made a wormhole, we couldn't keep it open, but we also can't make wormholes? Yeah, well, so if a wormhole was formed by some unstable process, it would quickly close. When you say it would close quickly, how long, meaning how long would it stay open? Seconds? Like microseconds. So I think the question isn't can we make them, but the question is, is there any form of...
...in the universe that's capable of keeping a wormhole sort of afloat. And we don't know the answer to that question. We didn't predict dark energy. There are forms of energy that are surprising to us. So we have to be of a civilization that has power over... Spacetime and energy and matter that we are not quite yet.
And perhaps in that future civilization, we can manipulate the fabric of space and time and make wormholes. So what came first? The thing you said first or wormholes? The sci-fi. I think we'd be better off manipulating space and time by, for instance, doing something like... Textning Stina Hedin www.btistudios.com
Det är inte en stor del. Nej, det är inte en stor del. Nej, jag vill kämpa med det. Okej. Nej, nej. Du kan gå från en del av space till den andra. Och då kan du gå från en del av space till den andra. Och då kan du gå från en del av.
All right. With a space fogo stick. Well, you could just step right across if you can pull them closer together. Okay, you have to step out of your dimension and back in. Well, you could do all of this even in three dimensions. Just pull two spacetime points closer. Now, again, it has the same problem.
which is that I don't know forms of matter energy that would do it. But that's warp drive in principle. We got to talk. Then you just push it back out again where it was before. So you would just need to, it would just be like a mirror. You just walk through something like a mirror.
I'm just making names. You're totally making that up. No, I'm making that up. I just mean, you'd walk through and just what seems like... When StarTalk comes back... I want to go through a wormhole! ...we'll find out more about how Einstein's relativity can stretch the imagination. Svensktextning.nu True power begins with control. Sisterhood above all. Stream on nu på Max. Slös en massa timmar på mejlormar och sammanställningar. Det är inte Telia.
Men att ha en pålitlig AI-assistent från Microsoft, det är Telia. Microsoft 365 Copilot är framtiden för små och medelstora företag. När du skaffar det hos Telia får du inte bara verktyget utan även en trygg partner som hjälper dig att komma igång och verkligen få ut max av det. Så när du tänker på AI, tänk stort. Och när du vill att det ska funka från dag ett, tänk Telia.
Svensktextning.nu Textning Stina Hedin www.btistudios.com Jana, before the break you said you can warp space and hop from one part of it to another. With a pogo stick. Or on a bicycle. He added the pogo stick. I don't know how you do that without a wormhole. Well, there is a sense in which we can get space to expand in particular ways. Or contract. Or contract. Yes. And so if you imagine that there's something called dark energy, which you know very well. Ja. Ja. Ja. Ja. Ja.
Much like dark energy does, right? But in the opposite direction, causing the collapse of space. You're going to be like, Neil, what you're saying is true. Trust me on the science, Neil. So the reason why this is imperative is that you can travel across a very short distance. Det är viktigt att det är viktigt att det är viktigt att det är viktigt att det är viktigt att det är viktigt att det är viktigt att det är viktigt att det är viktigt
And you had power to do so. To just manipulate accordion. Contract? I bring California. Det är inte det. Det är inte det. Det är inte det. ... ... ... ... ... Spanning fast in the speed of light. So it's all consistent with the limits of relativity. Okay, when you got this, call me up. We'll figure that one out. So there's relative space, but there's also relativity of time.
Of course. Let's zoom in on my conversation with Christopher Nolan about the relativity of time. You look at relativity itself insofar as I can understand it and insofar as I try and explain it to the audience. Det är all mindblåing. Det är mindblåing. Det är mindblåing. Det är att det är att det är att det är att det är att det är att det är att det är att det är att det är att det är att det är
That's incredible. Yeah, and I think you took it to an extreme point, which no one had done before. I don't think I'm giving too much of the film away when I say where you visit a planet.
That's in a very deep gravitational well, we say. And the closer you are to a strong source of gravity, the slower your time ticks relative to people you left at home. And so if you're going to commit to a visit of a planet where... att det är att det är att det är att det är att det är att det är att det är att det är att det är att det är att det är att det är att det är att det är att det är att det är att det är att det är att det är att det är att det är
Well, before I go down there, Brand, Anne Hathaway's character has a line, you know, she says, we've got to view time as a resource, like oxygen. As a commodity. Food, exactly. And I just, I thought it was just a cool idea. That was a great line. That was a great line. So here we have time moving at different rates for different people. And Jenna, could you just give the lowdown on...
When your time moves more slowly? So the simplest circumstance that Einstein first thought of was when you're in relative motion. So you're two astronauts flying past each other in a totally empty space and you're in relative motion. One astronaut says, I'm not moving, you're the one that's moving and you're...
...moving near the speed of light, they will see that person's clock run very slowly. That person will appear to move slow and talk slow. Everything slows. But that astronaut will accuse the other of the same thing.
All right, so there's the relativity of the passage of time. That's right. Their experience of their own time is normal. And then there's also gravity that does this as well. So gravity does this as well. And you can think of it as a rotation in space-time. You know, you can rotate... ...left into right. And it turns out you can rotate space into time and time into space. And one way to do that is to... Tack så mycket.
What she just said is that you have enough gravity. Yeah, yeah. That's all I want, is to walk around New York City slowing down everyone's time by just walking right behind them. Like a normal person. So whether or not you can measure it, you can calculate what effect... Eugen's gravitational field is having on the passage of time on your clocks. Yes, and we do notice this with clocks near the Earth versus clocks in the space station. What's the biggest thing that's near the Earth that...
would have this effect in a way that you'd really notice like is it Jupiter or would it have to be the sun or is there that's an interesting question I mean I've never thought about whether they could do it for the moon I mean maybe it depends on how precise your clock is really that's really what they do it for Ja. Ja. Ja. Ja. Ja.
But they're sending time signals to your smartphones. And that time signal they send you is correct. How do you get the correct time if they have the wrong time? Because we knew in advance what the effects of relativity would be. ...on the GPS satellite system. And we pre-correct the time that they send down to us. So that when it gets to here on Earth, you have the correct time. And that is general relativity manifest in our...
In our civilization today. When we come back, everything you ever wanted to know about Black Hole. On StarTalk. We're back. StarTalk, the Rose Center for Earth and Space. We do the universe here, in case you didn't know. We're talking today about relativity, about... Black holes, wormholes. We have a cosmologist, Jana Levin. Jana, we want to learn more about black holes. Everybody loves some black holes. Oh, yeah.
We have an image. We have an image, an artist representation of a black hole. Let's check it out. Right here. So, I particularly like this because it has sort of... What we say in astrophysics is an accretion disk. There's a disk of material that might be feeding the appetite of the black hole as it descends. Also, the black hole is a three-dimensional hole. Just the way a wormhole is three-dimensional. And there's clearly sort of a radiation field just on the outskirts.
Det är så bra. Det är så bra. It is. Not beautiful to go through. It would be unpleasant. So the black hole creates a region around it where the gravitational field is so strong that... Svensktextning.nu That's what the Event Horizon says. It says no information can ever come out. So we gather from the mathematics.
It suggests that there's something called a singularity at the center. A place where space-time curvature is so strong that you would just be crushed to death just by gravitational forces. And then... I don't know, blotted out of existence. We don't really know what happens there. A lot of people think that's not the whole story. What if you put a black hole in a black hole?
What would happen? There are two that are in a death spiral right now, discovered in the center of a galaxy. They just make a bigger black hole. Really? You can't think of a black hole as a thing. It's really... It's like a dude? It's like a place. A place. It's like Miami. Ja, så en black hole kan äta den andra. Ja, det är bara en black hole twice as big. Ja, och då blir det bara en black hole. Ja, så in order to tell this extraordinary story about this planet near...
Orbitning very close to a black hole. They had to sort of loosen up some science shackles in the storytelling. And let's return to my office where I talked with Christopher Nolan. One of my favorite lines from Mark Twain is... First, get your facts straight, then distort them at your leisure. You know what? Exactly. I mean, that was exactly the process. It's like, let's figure out what the reality is, and then I would explain to Kip, okay, but for the narrative, I've got to...
...jump over this bit or ignore this bit or whatever. And we would have a back and forth about what was allowable and what wasn't. But generally I found working with Kip... He wasn't sitting there sort of going, well, here are the rules of the thing. He was sitting there going, well, these are the possibilities. This is what real-world physicists are offering. Which any good science advice should be to a...
Just here's a context, see what you can do with it. And what the real world comes up with is so much more mind-blowing. ...discovered mathematically, nobody thought they were real. Nobody thought there would be any way nature could make such a thing, right? Why hasn't everything been destroyed by a black hole? Eaten by a black hole. Yeah, why isn't everything... Or are we in one now? Textning Stina Hedin www.btistudios.com
I mean, aside from having no sunlight. It would be cold and dark. Yeah, yeah. But we wouldn't be sucked in and destroyed. We would not be sucked in any. Oh, that is such a relief. We would be on exactly the same. We are falling into the sun. The sun is sucking us up just incredibly slowly. Oh, well, Bella, thank you.
Like, the sun will blow up long before that happens. Oh, okay. We'll collide with Andromeda long before that happens. Oh, that's nice. So this is a lot of good stuff. We'll actually kill ourselves long before that happens. Put your priorities in order. Our civilization, but maybe, you know. Cats might survive. My favorite thing about black holes is what it does to your body when you fall in. As you get drawn into a black hole, feet first, it begins to stretch you apart because your feet...
...are drawn to the black hole faster than the top of your head is. And then you get taller and taller until you snap into two pieces... ...when the forces of gravity become greater than the molecular forces that hold your flesh. And then those two pieces themselves experience this. It's called the tidal force of gravity. And they snap. And they become 1, 2, 4, 8, 16. Then you're a stream of particles descending down to the abyss. And meanwhile, you're the fat...
Textning Stina Hedin www.btistudios.com May I share it with you? I shouldn't call, it's not, it's a rhyme. Poets compose poems. Regular people rhyme stuff, okay? So, so here it is. Here it is. In a feet-first dive to this cosmic abyss, you will not survive because you will not miss. The tidal forces of gravity will create quite a calamity when you're stretched head to toe.
Are you sure you want to go? Your body's atoms, you'll see them, will enter one by one. The singularity will eat them, and you won't be having fun. Så det är en sätt att dö av att falla i en black hole. När StarTalk returns, vi kommer att se på varför Bill Nye, den science guy, är ganska säkert att Saving-the-world interstellar-style... ...is not in our future. On StarTalk. This is StarTalk. StarTalk is back.
We're talking about the movie Interstellar, featuring my interview with Christopher Nolan in my office at the Hayden Planetarium. And in that film, there's a blight on Earth. We're all going to die. We need to find another planet. We find another planet, travel through a wormhole to get there. My good friend Bill Nye assesses this scenario in his Bill Nye rant.
Space exploration brings out the best in us. You don't believe me? How often have you heard somebody say, if they can put a man on the moon, why can't they blank? And that blank can be filled with anything, like cell phone calls that don't get dropped, or better instant mashed potatoes. Det all comes från den teknologi av space. Så en film som är om space har en stor potential. Men den här ideaen att du kan röra den platsen du vill och gå att leva på något annat är unikt till vårt tid.
I don't think you're going to really be able to do that when it comes to the Earth. This is where we make our stand. The Earth's only this big. We're all stuck here. What about Mars? No, it hasn't rained on Mars in 3 billion years. And as soon as that spacecraft door opens, you'll notice you can't breathe. See you down the track. Bill Nye, a man on the move. Yeah, he brings up a very important point. No matter how bad Earth was, is there another place that's better?
Even after we mess it up as badly as we did? And in Interstellar, they go to a planet that didn't look like the next planet I wanted to go to after Earth. And I also think, do people want to terraform planets? After we mess up Earth, let's terraform Mars. What is terraforming? You turn it into Earth-like. Why don't we just terraform Earth? Exactly! Exactly! If you have the power to turn another planet into an Earth...
You have the power to turn Earth back into Earth. Yeah. That's how I see it. I agree. It's got to be easier than terraforming a planet and shipping a billion people there. But in any case... The movie Interstellar, as well as some other films of recent years, Gravity among them, it got people talking about the universe, about space travel again, about science, about the value of science literacy.
...in leading characters that maybe you want to be when you grow up. So I chatted with Chris Nolan in my office. I asked him, what effect does he think his movie has? ...on the dreams of a nation and the world. I would love for kids today, you know, to see Interstellar and get inspired about... I mean, it's what you guys have been doing with Cosmos and whatever. I mean, it's like, if you can...
...show people visually. That's why you need such a lavish visual treatment. It's about how exciting it is. It's not about numbers on the page. It's about flight of imagination. It's about Einstein sitting there and imagining. Sets of twins, one on a train going the speed of light. The famous twin paradox. All that stuff. It's so visual and enormous. So anything you can do, either on television or in a movie or whatever, to try and get that.
...skale and excitement across. Another thing I... In fact I've been telling this to... Because people come to me now to comment on... Newly released science fiction film. I think it's because I had some tweets for the movie Gravity. I heard. That went a little viral. Which was not my intent. I was just putting it out there.
Bump into them on the morning news and on the evening news. And everyone said astrophysicist Neil Tyson says. And it's like my gosh. But that meant that there was an appetite. Yeah. Why would anyone care unless the science. ...in a film is now part of the dialogue. Oh my gosh! Science in the dialogue. In your defense, gravity got the gravity wrong. Listen, Jana...
Professor Levin, thanks for coming. Anytime. And Eugene, it's always great having you on StarTalk. Thank you. You've been watching StarTalk from the Hall of the Universe of the American Museum of Natural History. In New York City, I'm Neil deGrasse Tyson, your personal astrophysicist. And as always, I bid you to keep looking up! från Frank Herberts episka universum och romanen Sisterhood of June. True power begins with control. Sisterhood above all. Stream on nu på Max.
Slösa en massa timmar på mejlormar och sammanställningar. Det är inte Telia. Men att ha en pålitlig AI-assistent från Microsoft, det är Telia. Microsoft 365 Copilot är framtiden för små och medelstora företag. När du skaffar det hos Telia får du inte bara verktyget utan även en trygg partner som hjälper dig att komma igång och verkligen få ut max av det. Så när du tänker på AI, tänk stort. Och när du vill att det ska funka från dag ett, tänk Telia.