And welcome to Stamper Cinema, the film discussion podcast where you choose it, I watch it, and we discuss it. I'm your host. My name is Andrew. Thank you very much for joining us today. If you are new to the show, please do me a favor and subscribe. Tell your friends. Rate us. Review us. Subscribe even to my website, SamperCinema.com. And on that website, you can actually get a...
you know, look at our entire back catalog. I also have a couple blogs on there and there's even a form if you would like to be a guest on Stamper Cinema. Anyway. And bear with me, I'm like on the mend, but I've, you know, have that cold bronchitis thing, whatever it is that's been going around. And yeah, so I probably sound a little bit more nasally than I usually do, but that's okay. We're going to persevere because tonight we've got a great episode.
Because, you know, I say this a couple of times, but this time we really are doing something a little bit extra because not only are we going to be discussing like one of the great films like ever made. But more importantly, the guest we have today has curated a little specialty cocktail for the occasion. That's right. We are doing a Flicks and Sips kind of special episode here at Stamper Cinema. So shout out to my dear friend, Mr. Jason Lepla. He will be joining us here shortly.
And I'm super pumped because this cocktail I've had the pleasure of getting started on it and is fucking delicious. But more importantly, a little background on Jason. One, he's amazing. Two, he's Canadian. So, yeah, I mean, like Canadians have this tendency to like all be fucking awesome. Let's see. He's an EMT or maybe he calls it something something different. I don't know. We'll get into it. Four.
As you can probably recognize, he comes up with some specialty cocktails, but he's also a pretty damn like excellent cook. And we'll probably have a little discussion on this insane dinner that he made. When he came down and visited like Catherine and myself many, many, many years ago, he was, you know, he's up in Calgary or some shit. And we were living in Austin and he came down and we went to Whole Foods and.
Just went fucking full tilt in that grocery store. But I'm sure we'll probably talk about that. But anyway, and lastly, most importantly, he's got a great taste in films. But before we bring him out here, let's briefly. you know, kind of introduce the movie that we're going to be talking about, even though it requires absolutely no freaking like introduction, like at all. But we're going to give it a shot anyway, because there is a chance.
Which is kind of weird, but there is a chance you still haven't seen seven. And well, quite frankly, if you haven't seen it, the lesser you know about it, the better. as you can see it definitely like full medicated and like my words are going a little like back and forth that's okay we're gonna get through this promise and we have jason out here it's gonna be far more entertaining than this introduction that i'm already all over the map on but anyway
let's talk about seven um so seven came out in 1995 it is a crime thriller that essentially follows two police detectives and like they're Do I like spruce it up and say like they're desperate, you know, pursuit to stop a serial killer or their serial killer or their race around the clock? to stop a serial killer from committing a series of brutal murders based on the seven deadly sins. Regarding those seven deadly sins, as a reminder, those are gluttony, greed, sloth, pride.
pride, lust, wrath, and envy. And regarding our two like leads, our two detectives, one basically is on his way out. You know, he's been doing this forever. And now he's kind of like sending himself to like an early retirement. He's become really disenchanted with the world. And his partner recently transferred, but he's young, he's hungry, and be perfectly honest, a little bit of like a naive doofus.
But and it's their partnership in this week and the entire film takes place over the series of seven days. And yeah, I mean, it's it's incredible. It was written by Andrew Kevin Walker, directed by David Fincher. At this point, you know, they had done some work, but they really weren't household names at the time. But.
they definitely surrounded themselves with some like heavy hitters because the stars of this movie are Morgan Freeman, Brad Pitt, Gwyneth Paltrow, although she was pretty new in her own right at the time, and Kevin Spacey, who... had been around forever, but this was a movie that certainly put him on the map if the usual suspects hadn't already done that. But bottom line is, the movie was a massive success. It earned over $100 million.
in North America and grown, grown, man, y'all, I'm like struggle busing my way through this, but that's okay. But gross over $200 million more worldwide. And I think it had like about a $35 million budget. And critically, it has a 83% critics were on Rotten Tomatoes and a 95% score among. like the audiences who have seen it and while this movie like let's be real like while this movie may be 30 years old or approaching it at this point today it still continues to entertain dazzle shock and
Well, let's be real, like downright scare the ever loving shit out of audiences today. I mean, I know I still vividly remember the very first time I saw this in the theaters. I was with my sister and I. uh i love you chrissy but i'm very very sure that she still remembers uh when she saw this movie at least the ending and uh we we might even get into that but uh
yeah, this movie definitely packs a wallop and this movie does linger. But, you know, that's enough of my ranting. You don't want to really hear about me. Let's talk to Jason and his delicious cocktail. So yeah, let's officially start the show. Mr. Lepla, what is happening, man? Long time no see. How have you been? I've been doing fantastic. How have you been doing? I've been good. I've been good.
Yeah, yeah. I think for the listeners, you know, you and I, we go back. Well, shoot, at this point, a decade or so ago. Yeah, we met through the message board of the Sasquatch Music Festival. That's right. We've actually met a lot of our friends that we are still keeping contact with today. And yeah, I remember you and your lovely wife. And one of the things that you and I... did connect on outside of music was also our love of movies. It's true.
it's true i i think you know i'm pretty sure you probably have a good memory of this because it was just such a well i don't know maybe you don't have a memory of this but i have a memory of this because it was it was a big freaking deal to me because it was something that i couldn't quite like it was an itch that like you couldn't like quite scratch and it was all about this
movie that i thought i had seen but it wasn't a movie it was a tv show and it was this this young girl that had had kind of like a toxic shock syndrome like effect and i was explaining the scene that had happened and you replied like i don't think that's a movie i think that's an episode of niptock and yes yes that's right and i was like oh my god yes that's exactly what it was it was just like i said it was something that was eating me up for quite some time and you're like no
That was nip talk. And from that moment, that moment right there, I'm like, OK, this is a guy. This is a guy that you want to keep around. You want to you want to make sure that you don't lose contact with this because any somebody can help you remember something that is just.
driving you insane and they're able to solve that mystery. Yeah, because I'm definitely one of those people that annoys the heck out of my wife where you'll be watching a show or a movie and you'll see a character and you're like... What are they from? What are they in? And I just, I, my ADD, ADHD just goes wild. And I sometimes have to pause what we're watching. I'm like, no, I got, I got to know this now.
Otherwise it's going to bug me the whole show. I'm not gonna be able to pay attention. So that was probably like another one of those notes where you brought up that situation. I'm like, I know that, but that's not a movie. What do I know? And I was like, it's from a series. And like, um,
nip tuck was a a show that i kind of like got me through when i was working out of town it was just like a series that i found on dvd and i went through it i'm like and it was actually pretty the first pieces were actually really really good and then when you said the toxic shock syndrome i'm like I've seen that in at least one TV series, but it doesn't drop a doesn't ring a bell for a movie. Yeah. But thank you for that. Now, I think in this episode, we will we'll cover.
A multitude of things because there's a lot that I like to chat with you about because it's been, you know, a few years since, you know, you because once upon a time when I was living in Austin, you came down and visited Catherine and I. And that was such a good time. We. We spent way too much money for groceries one time. That was going to be my segue into the cocktail because you found out how I can be extra a little bit.
Just for a little bit of background for your listeners. So my name is Jason. I live up in Canada. I'm a paramedic. I also go by First Responder Jay on Instagram and TikTok. So I'm a paramedic. I love... uh whiskey good food and cocktails and that comes from my previous career in the restaurant industry and then yeah so when i went to get down go visit you and you let me stay at your place for austin city limits
I was like, I want to cook you guys dinner. And we went to Whole Foods. And I remember it was my first time ever going into Whole Foods. And I'm like, wow, this place is awesome. And then I think we spent like two or three hundred dollars for like two grocery bags for this stuff. And I was like, huh.
Okay, well, and so, and then for the cocktail that we'll talk a little bit later, I guess I put you on another Whole Foods excursion to go find some of the weird ingredients in the cocktail that we're having right now. It's true. It's true. If I sound a little nasally, I'm just battling a little. I'm like we're on the recovery phase of a little bronchitis. So I'm just a little still.
A little coffee, a little nasally, but I am I'm good to go. But I do. You know what? I don't think there's any reason to waste any time. I think the listeners do want to know about this cocktail. And I think we should kind of get into it. What what are we drinking and what is the origin story behind said drink? And why does it pair so tastefully to seven?
Right. Well, this is one of my favorite tea cocktails. So like I said, I used to be a bartender in my previous life. And I used to, at the end of my kind of restaurant bar career, I worked in a kind of like a mixology. cocktail focus bar which this was like back in the uh mid-2000s so it was before the whole cocktail renaissance um and so uh
The drink we're making is one of my favorite tiki cocktails called the Saturn. And the first time I ever had the Saturn was at Smuggler's Cove. It's this kind of dive bar in San Francisco, which is also... one of the best tiki cocktail bars in the world uh allegedly and so we just did a little bit of a spin to it just because i wanted to try and see if i can like kind of find like a seven ingredient cocktail to go with the movie seven that which you and i discussed
that we were going to discuss. And so we're calling this the seven Saturn. And so what I did is I kind of made the ingredients to kind of go along with the seven deadly sins, which is... a big integral part of the movie we're going to be discussing. So the first one is gluttony. And so what I did to kind of make this a gluttonous type cocktail is so one of the ingredients is one and a quarter ounces of gin. And to make it a little bit gluttonous, we did a coconut fat wash on the gin.
and for those of you who don't know what fat washing is it's basically adding some kind of fat lipid uh flavoring agent to a spirit and you let it kind of sit for a little bit and then you chill it and the the fat will solidify you strain it out and you'll have a little bit of that flavor imparted in the spirits and it also gives it kind of like a little bit of a silky mouth feel because there's still a little bit of that lipid in there and so yeah we did a coconut fat wash in but you can do
bacon fat wash bourbon uh coconut works well for like uh tequila or rum uh i actually made a nutella fat wash whiskey that turned out pretty interesting uh but yeah so that's our gluttony component of the cocktail and you're gonna have to forgive me because I did maybe do a little bit of reaching on the correlation to some of these the sins but just bear with me uh so then we'll go on to greed
And this was a hard one for me to find and probably for Andrew as well. So it calls for three quarters of an ounce of lemon juice, but to make agreed to give it a little bit more panache, a little bit more money to it. We went and upgraded the lemon juice to Meyer lemon. So just to give it a little bit of extra punch, a little bit of different flavor to it. And then sloth, a little bit of a reach here, but the next ingredient, it calls for a quarter ounce of orgeat.
And so Orjot is a... a syrup like a sweetener uh that is made primarily of almonds uh and like sugar and a little bit of orange flour and some of them have brandy if they're alcoholic versions or you can find non-alcoholic versions as well so It's usually, especially the non-alcoholic versions are usually pretty thick and syrupy. So that's kind of where I was going with sloth. And then lust calls for a half ounce of passion fruit syrup. So the easy low hanging fruit there.
passion, lust. And then we call for a quarter ounce of falernum. Uh, and so we put this one, I put this one with envy, uh, because I'm a little bit envious because there's two different types of learn. Um, like there's an alcohol and non-alcoholic version.
Up here in Canada where I live, I've never been able to find the alcoholic version and you apparently had some in your cabinet. So I'm envious of you of being able to get that. But Flurnum is, if this alcoholic version is kind of like a sweet... uh liquor that's made with rum usually high proof rum uh
uh and then some almond sweeteners much like the orgeat but it's also got like more spices to it so like it's also like lime zest and cloves uh some recipes call for like ginger you can make your own enough learning which i was going to do but i thought i still had some in my fridge didn't so i had to go for the non-alcoholic version uh and then we go to uh wrath so wrath uh is to
you can do it two ways you can shake it up in your your uh cocktail shaker there's you know give it a little bit of wrath or you can go to extra little mile which we did it here is where you can uh after you've shaken your cocktail in the shaker with the ice you're going to strain it onto pebbled ice, which you need to, unless you're fancy and have a fridge that can make pebbled ice, which I am not.
You have to throw some ice in a bag and smash the heck out of it. And like, you know, think about why your your mother doesn't love you. And and, you know, that bully in high school and let the wrath come out. And then.
The final one for the seven in the movie we're going to be watching is Pride, where we did a little garnish. So the typical garnish for... a saturn is just like a little uh lemon peel ring uh but we went a little bit extra and we went for like a well at least i did anyways uh i did like an extra long lemon spiral which is probably like a good foot long
Yeah, well, that was a little bit of reach. I'm like, how can I make this prideful? I'm like, I don't know. I'm taking pride in the work I'm doing. Again, a little bit of reach, but there we go. We have the seven Saturn. uh we were talking about it before we started the podcast but you said you were a little bit concerned it was being sweet and that's what i thought too when i saw the recipe uh and but yeah it's it's nice i love this cocktail So I, you know, I followed the.
the uh the ingredients uh pretty pretty well now you mentioned like uh you know falernum or falernum um in bermuda we that's part of like a base for like one of our like our like our national cocktail which is a rum swizzle so That is something that, yeah, I make sure that I keep that on hand. Always on hand. I like it. Yeah, yeah. But. So that was something. But yeah, went to went to Whole Foods and grabbed the Meyer lemons and.
My other element of pride, because I wanted to represent Whole Foods a little bit, I got a little frozen bag of passion fruit. And so I've got a couple little... you know like wedges uh passion fruit in there still went ahead and created a little like a swirl with my with my um with my lemon in there and then went over to Total Wine and grabbed the orgeat and the passion fruit kind of like puree stuff that they had over there as well. So for the listeners that are interested in doing that.
doing a kind of a, you know, like a fat washing of oil. It's a lot easier than I thought. Now, you had said it's a little time consuming, but it's pretty easy. And yeah, I can I can definitely concur with that. It's not it's not hard. Nope. You basically just take the spirit, put like, you know, the liquid fat of, you know, you use coconut oil.
I've heard some people use sesame oil, bacon fat. And yeah, just let it sit for a bit at room temperature. And then when you're ready to... get using it just throw it in the freezer in like the jar put your jar upside down because that way the fat will sit to the top and then uh when you pour it out you don't have to kind of punch through the the layer of fat that freezes at top and solidifies and you just kind of run it through the coffee filter to get any other
loose particulates out there and Bob's your uncle. It's all done. Now, you may have said this at the outset and I've forgotten, unfortunately, so I do apologize for that. But what is the purpose? Why do that? Other than for the sake of... What we're talking about for seven, but what I mean, because this is something that has become a bit of a trend in recent years. So why? What makes fatwashing a thing?
I think it's just something a little bit different, even though it's not a new concept, but it's kind of like, you know, with everything with cocktails is kind of coming back into style. Right. But it's something a little bit different. It adds like a... subtle flavor but like um i saw your gin because uh i saw the gin you did yours came out really really clear mine was just like a a little bit cloudy but i didn't run mine through the the coffee filter but like for those uh
booze forward cocktails where like you know you're not mixing with juice or whatnot so say you want to make a bacon old-fashioned like it gives it like a bacon flavor but it's still going to maintain that lucid translucent like
clear color so there's that and then like i was saying before is it gives it just like a little bit of a a silky mouth feel it's not as noticeable in the cocktail we're drinking right now because uh with the other ingredients in there but if you were to make it like a negroni
uh with like a fat washed negroni or like you know like i was saying a bacon fat washed uh old-fashioned or a sesame oil fat washed manhattan you're gonna notice it a lot more but it's still gonna be nice and clear so it's just a way of imparting some cool flavor nice silky mouth feel because uh that's kind of like a new trinity thing is like you know how things are feeling in your mouth um and then yeah it's just it's just a neat little way to do it and it's super easy to do
And what I do, because I'm a big whiskey collector, sometimes I'll get a bottle that I'm just not crazy about, and it's all fat washing, so it gives me something to do with the whiskey that I don't want to drink just straight on my own, and just kind of experiment and do whatever I want to do with it.
Now, admittedly, for the gin, I didn't do anything particularly fancy. I wasn't sure how this was going to come out, so I didn't go with any super artisanal gin. And I wouldn't either. I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't. What gin did you use? I did Beefeater, which I think is like dollar for dollar is just a good, easy gin that, you know, especially if you're mixing shit like. there's other solid solid london dry gin yep i have it always on my shelf
I used the one that's made here in Canada. It was just because I think that the flavor profile would be going good with the cocktail we're having. It's from Sheringham, which is out of Vancouver Island. And it's their kazuki gin. So it's kind of got some Asian influences to it. So they use yuzu and grapefruit and they actually do some green tea in it as well. And so again, in the cocktail, it's not going to pop too much in a mixed cocktail, but like it's really great for martinis.
But yeah, for fat washing, don't use expensive stuff. There's no point. All right. Well, Sláinte to you. You know, this has been definitely a I think it's a perfect pairing for this film. Although I think. i would like maybe a little bit more like red in it just for like the sake of blood but um but i mean that's that's you know neither here opportunity missed
Yeah, exactly. Mark that down in the notes now. OK, so a year ago, this conversation began really about a year ago where you said, hey, I think. I think I would love to be on the show and I'd love to talk about seven. So I think if it's cool with you and we can definitely talk more booze because you mentioned that you're big into, you know, like a whiskey collector. I'm not a big whiskey collector, but I do like to collect whiskey.
I like to drink whiskey even more. But for the sake of the fact that we're about 20 or so minutes in, let's talk a little bit about this movie. So why did you want to discuss Seven specifically? What was it about this movie that you thought? This would be a fun conversation, which, by the way, you're right. But I'm curious to know why, you know, what about this movie you wanted to talk about?
Well, I remember throwing a few movies at you and like some of my favorite movies had understandably already been taken because they're, you know, great films. But I threw seven in there just because it is one of like. probably my top thriller movies in my, in that I've seen. And I just thought, you know, there's a lot of.
things to talk about and it's the way the movie is kind of structured out with like the seven deadly stands like it's good for us to kind of parse it down and go through things and then again with the the like because you and i were talking about like you know making a cocktail and stuff that i'm like hey i was gonna like try and create like a
my own like cocktail with like seven components and stuff like that but i was getting way too into my head and so i was gonna find find a cocktail that i can do seven ingredients and like kind of make it my own little uh spin on it my own little flavor on it
uh but it also came out in 1995 which was i think you and i are pretty close in age but it was like my former year so uh 1995 i was in grade 11 going into 12 i think um and so my formative years and and you know it's not that it was a rooting uh angsty teenager but i did have some of those qualities in me and and just the when it came out like it was pretty graphic and like and and kind of pushing the envelope for how um
edgy movies could be at that time like you know there's our other kind of cult classics there are lesser no but like this was a pretty big movie i think it was like the number one movie for for quite a few months uh when it came out And then, you know, it's, you know, had Brad Pitt where he was just starting to come into his like superstardom because he had Legends of Fall and that interview with the vampire right before that. And so it was just like a really.
It really struck a chord for a very forwarded part of my life. a teenager and still kind of figure out who I am and whatnot. And I was into really into thrillers and the horrors and stuff like that. And this was like a mainstream thriller that was, I thought was done beautifully. And.
Yeah, it's just one of my favorites kind of suspenseful thriller movies. Did you see this movie in a theater when it first came out? Do you remember? I did. So it was rated. I can't remember what the rating system was.
back then when i was that age but i was not old enough to go by myself uh but if you a parent brought you like an actual an actual adult like not any of my 18 year old friends but i think i was i was 16 at the time when it came out um and uh my stepfather uh who was a massive influence on my me being a movie buff i was like can you take me to go see this and he's like yep as long as you don't tell your mother and i was like perfect
And so actually, no, that's my body was pretty cool. But yeah, I mean, he took it to it and he wasn't a fan of it because that's not really his kind of thing. But I loved it. I absolutely loved it. When you look at the early mid-90s, because this movie came out in 95, but there was this really interesting sweet spot between 92 and 97. There were some really... Uh, cause it wasn't just film, but it was also, you know, uh, music. There was like this five year gap and like the.
Even though like, yeah, I mean, basically the early mid to the straight mid 90s was just a really interesting time like in the art world. So I'm just kind of curious, what about this film? Was it that connected with you? Was it because it was dark? Was it because it was a little bit different? Was it the bleakness? What about this movie? When the credits rolled, you're like, yeah, this is a good movie.
I think at the time, just being a still slightly immature teenager, I think it was like just you heard the critics say that it was like very. It wasn't like it was it was a graphic movie somewhat like not like a classic kind of horror film, but that it was getting such rave reviews.
And but it was like people were saying it was kind of shocking and like they're kind of taken aback by it. And I was like, I want to know what that's all about. And and then like, you know, people were saying it was really dark. And then I had one friend say that the opening credits for it was actually a Nine Inch Nails song.
especially at that specific time in my life, I idolized that band. They're still one of my favorite bands. I've expanded my repertoire, if you will, but the Nine Inch Nails is probably still in one of my top.
bands and trends so it was just like that that that whole um genre mindset like dark suspenseful thriller graphic um the movie itself like isn't violent and we'll talk about a little bit more but like you actually don't even see anybody die like actually get killed until the very end of the movie but like it's it's still like
you know, your mind thinks about it on how these, you know, people are dying. Like your, your mind just kind of wanders and like, what was that like? And it's just like, it kind of gives you the goosebumps and I love that kind of stuff. Yeah, that's something that I think that's beautiful about this movie because 99% of the violence in this movie happens off screen. You know, there's the scene in the end and then, you know, obviously Brad Pitt takes a...
I can't remember what that was, like a tire iron, to the head or something like that. But that's really it, right? I mean, the violence itself happens off screen. You're left with your own brain to fill in the gaps on. what actually happened you see somebody obviously wasting away in a bed but there's no violence that actually happens in that scene and you know the the gluttony uh sloth all of that um
And so that's it's interesting. You know, it's I remember I, too, saw this movie in the movie theater. Now, again, we're about the same age. And I remember going to see this movie with my sister in the movie theater. She. She was six years older than me. She had a major infatuation with Brad Pitt then. She still does. She didn't.
You know, she she's still in love with him. You know, I think if he were just to roll up, you know, like, hey, hey, girl, she would basically just leave her entire family for him. But. I just remember watching the movie, and like you, also a big Nine Inch Nails fan, so the movie had me at the opening credits. I thought it was really interesting.
that's funny because it's actually not even credited in the soundtrack no no what i liked about this movie and you know i'll get into like the the nerdy things for the listeners uh those that listen to the show i i like to do a lot of backstory type stuff on this but i liked how how real this movie felt in the set. And let me be more specific.
It didn't feel like it was done on a studio. You know, it didn't feel like they were they were shooting this on a stage in any capacity. And quite frankly, they weren't. They weren't like in real rooms and things like that. And so like the everything was very cramped.
when they they shot that they didn't have like removable walls when they were like filming things so the scenes that felt very tight that that was actually that was real which i thought was really great uh they had to do some things but um in post but this movie which by and large was filmed in la just happened during a time where they
It was raining and which is great because of the fact that this film, this film doesn't take. It doesn't make it look. It doesn't make it look like it's in L.A. with how much rain it's raining throughout the whole film. And the only thing that made it the only thing that made it look like it was.
uh la was like the very end where they're kind of going to the desert where the the end stuff happens but after like you know looking at it it's like and they're very uh specific to not name a specific like a city um like you don't see anything on the police badges i was looking i watched the movie again last night just kind of to do a deep dive on it and i was like
and they don't show where the city is the only thing they say is that uh like you know brad pitt and gueth pastoral that they came from upstate which can mean anything but like it could be like it could be new york it could be boston um like it it doesn't make you think it's like it's la when it was shot in la yeah none of it makes it like feel like it's la and i mean that was purely by design from you know like on from the screenwriting perspective is to not
put a specific place on it but those were the things i that really that i latched on to when i was watching this movie i'm like this is not like a lot of the films i'm seeing right now this doesn't this there's an element of grit going on here And it reminded me a lot of like 70s films. And but it obviously wasn't a 70s film. And then. And then obviously thematically and then structurally, the story wise, it's its own film. But those are the things that I completely.
was lost in and then of course the the final act and this movie is more than about then the final act of the movie but I I thought this You know, I thought I was in love with this movie long before they went into the desert. I'm like, this is this is interesting. There's something really fascinating about this story. And then over the year, pardon me.
Over the years, you know, just learning more about this movie, I've gained a greater appreciation because there was a time where, I mean, this movie. It almost didn't get made. I've researched like. Like, you know, the director did.
yeah like he this was his second movie i think he directed and the first one was alien three and from what i read like after he was three he was ready to throw in the towel because he had he was had so many issues with like the studios and whatnot and then and then so it you know and it's it's funny to look into like who the writer was trying to pitch it to and and
A lot of people said no to this movie based on a script, which is understandable because if you look at the script and whatnot, it's dark. It's dark. And so it was kind of cool to see how it came up.
came apart and like, you know, reading through some of the names of people who turned the movie down, I was like, no, I don't think they would have done a good job. No, that person would have done a good job. Like it's, it worked out really, really well. And yeah, I mean, the movie almost didn't happen, but shit, even.
The only reason why this movie did happen was because they sent David Fincher the wrong fucking script. You know, like he they meant to send him the revised script because this movie. uh the screenplay went through several different rewrites yeah and they're like man this is too bleak this will never happen so andrew kevin walker who like he created a screenplay like he was a
He was like a Pennsylvania guy, moved to New York. And it's like, man, there's a lot of crazy shit happening. And so that gave him the inspiration. And he did kind of like this high concept story because that's what like the studios were looking for in like the late 80s, early 90s. And so he's like, all right, I'll create a story about like a serial killer in the seven deadly sins. This will be sellable. But.
The studios, they optioned it, but like, yeah, this is good, but we got to change the ending. This will never fly. This will never fly. And so he wrote draft after draft after draft. And they're like, OK, boom, we'll do this movie. And then.
the company that we're going to do the film, they kind of like went like tits up and and so like went back to the studio and then they like, all right, well, we'll give it to David Fincher. He had a little bit of a bust on this on his movie, but he wants to do something else. Let's send him this, see what happens. But what they sent him was not like draft number like 20. They sent him like the original draft with the ending that we that we now know. And he's like, oh, my God, this is.
This is amazing. I'm inspired. Let's do this. And they're like, whoa, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. That's our mistake. We sent you the wrong one. Here, let's do this one. And he's like, no, fuck that. He's like, I'm going to do this. I want to do the real ending. And from what I've read, Brad Pitt had a big hand in that as well as because like the studio was trying to change the ending again. And Brad Pitt's like, nope.
Like, I'm like, no, we're keeping it normal. I'm not doing this. And so, well, I mean, I think part of that goes into the fact that like, no, this is when Brad Pitt was, he was, he was flying, man. And. Legends of the Fall went through rewrite after rewrite after rewrite as well, trying to figure out how they were going to tackle this.
romance story of a woman that falls in love with three different brothers. And I was filmed just in my backyard, by the way. Oh, well, for the listeners, I tried to, I tried to be in her presence. Yes. I tried to be an extra in that movie.
didn't make the cut oh i'm sorry um but yeah i mean legends of the fall went through several rewrites because they were trying to find a way to please test audiences on again a woman that falls in love with three different brothers and it's hard to make you know um that character very empathetic and also to go with her on that journey but also care about these other brothers and so they rewrote that several times and
And, you know, they changed the the audience to appease the the test, you know, the test audience. Yeah. It didn't quite work out. And Brad Pitt kind of, like, held on to that. So he's like, no, no, no, no, no. We're not going to change this for, like, a test screener. Like, this is where we're going to go. And so... It's just like timing is everything, right? I mean, when you look at, you know, the the filmmaker that got it, he was coming off of a dud. Our star that he was on the rise, but.
he had a little like bad taste in his mouth on what was going on. Part of the reason why the movie also works is the fact that we've got a villain that isn't caught in any capacity. He... He like turns himself in like without like any sight unseen, you know, like just sight unseen. He just turns himself in three quarters or two thirds of the way into the movie. At least. And.
It's a guy that wasn't credited at all. And that was something that he won. He's like, well, no, because I've done three movies right now. And if any of them are going to be successful. Then if you see my name, you're going to know that like I'm the guy and you want this movie to be a little bit of a surprise. And, you know, although Outbreak was.
Pretty popular and swimming with sharks, although I love it. Nobody saw it. But the big movie was The Usual Suspects. And that movie made him, you know, like an icon and people to saw. Kevin Spacey in this movie they would have been waiting where the fuck is Kevin Spacey so again like just even the timing of not having his name in the in that credit
Which is something obviously the Actors Guild would not be happy about at that time. Like, no, no, no, no, no. We kind of have to be in there. But it was just a multitude of just of great like timing moments that. The movie that, you know, just just a time bomb of everything going right. And, you know, the original like test screeners for this were a little like, yeah, this is fucking pure evil.
This movie is this is mean and bleak, but yeah, which is what they were going for. And then the movie came out and oh, you know, lo and behold, it just fucking like completely blew up the box office and. had just a massive, massive cultural effect. Yeah, like I think it was just like the year it came out and like how it was done. It was just the right time for that kind of movie to kind of come out because there's been like other like dark, bleak movies that have come out.
prior to that like you know like a lot of like david cronenberg's kind of films and stuff like that where it's like you know like it's got that cult following but like this was done well and it was still so dark but it's still had appeal to most people like you're obviously gonna like everyone's gonna be like no this is too much for me you know people like my my stepdad who took me to the the movie but like for the journal masses to have like a thriller
I think it was kind of like a trendsetter for that kind of thriller where it's going to push the buttons. It's going to make you feel emotions. And we'll probably talk about it later. It doesn't have a happy ending. And like, that's kind of like, you know.
Outside the box of what like, you know, big Hollywood was all about, especially during the 80s and whatnot for like, you know, the big movies. What are some like standout moments in this movie, whether it's thematic, whether it's acting, whether it's, you know. You know, just even how the film is shot. Like what what about this movie is something that you really latch on to? Like having seen the movie several times at this point, what do you go back to? I think just like the.
like we were talking about earlier where like there's no actual murders that you see you just see the aftermath and then that allows your imagination to kind of run away with it so i like movies that kind of like as you're watching the movie like you're trying to stay focused on the movie but like you're also it got in the back of your head it was like oh what this like you know kind of all that happened um i think like cinematically and like the way the movie was shot really
I really like that we were talking about a little bit before where it's like kind of dark and grainy. And so. like you know just like how they they shot it so they uh they did like that that technique called bleaching where they um expose the film to a certain solution and it kind of like It makes it really saturated and dark and grainy at the same time. It changes the contrast a bit. I kind of like that.
david fincher kind of made his own moving forward into some of his other work um and then um i just kind of also liked how after the movie kind of made you think about like
the perspectives of each character. And for me specifically, Morgan Freeman characters, William Somerset and... uh kevin spacey's character john doe is that like you know it made you think it's like you know these are kind of like real world things like we're real world problems like like a problem with society where like you know um
society can be very bleak and and like you know everyone's a sinner and and stuff like that and like you know like you it made you think about like you know kevin spacey's motive and then also like uh made you think about morgan freeman's like you know he had it one foot out the door and he was like almost done and he got brought back into this and like throughout the movie he has like a very uh bleak view of the world uh and whatnot and um
it kind of made me think outside the box because like in, I think it's like evangelical Christianity, like there's another sin, which is despair. uh and that kind of like made me think of morgan freeman was like he might be like the ninth or sorry the eighth sin of despair because like he like he's just you know very disparaging of the world and like what's happening throughout the movie and then obviously at the at the end as well
You know, you raise that point and you bring up, you know, Somerset. Honestly, like Somerset and John Doe are kind of like, you know, two different sides of the same coin, right? Because... And I think that's one of the things that works so well in the screenplay is the fact that... I think it's safe to agree that John Doe is not a good person, right? He's obviously the villain and Somerset is obviously the more like structured person.
of of this film but when you really analyze it they both want the same thing it's you know in the end which you know um is quite frankly a better world you know they they you have that uh essentially somerset is in a position where he just wants fucking get out he's done be so apathetic like it is what like one of the most telling moments and i wish i had the the actual quote pulled up was when he was talking and just just how he looks at the world when he was talking about
help versus yelling help versus yelling fire in a crowded place. Yeah, like if you yell help or if I'm being raped, nobody will come. If you yell fire, they'll all be a coming or something. Paraphrasing a little bit, but I think it's around the same thing. Exactly. And his philosophy really is people are, you know, not interested in the we, but more so in the me. And, you know, like if I'm in danger, then I'm going to figure it out. If someone else is in danger, then fuck it.
I'm out of here. Right. But again, just that that form of apathy, the way that he looks at the world where John Doe. as as as fucked up as it is or you're a fucking t-shirt you're a movie of the week you know some of the things that mill says about him um he looks at the world like he does want change and he
wants to go to extreme lengths to to, you know, find that change. And he's trying to act like a mirror to like, you know, to show society like this is what you look like. I'm trying to show you. and and that was his i think his his conquest was to show the world how awful the world is like this is this is you this isn't me this is you Somerset mentions basically to kind of talk about Mills that like Mills, you got to be the hero. You want to be the champion.
but you know but people don't want a champion they just want to they just want to escape things so what was it they just want to eat a cheer uh eat a cheeseburger you know like they don't they don't give a shit like and that just shows just how I mean, well, I guess it's three sides of one coin of just different worldviews. And that's why the finale that we'll get to.
is so rich because of the fact and and that's why i'm so glad that they they didn't go with what the rewrites involved which was basically them going to jail And yes, like, yeah, like saving Tracy. And if they did a box thing, it was going to be one of the dogs or something like that, which, you know, listen, we all love dogs. We all love dogs. But that is not a good movie. uh if that is your your your your third act twist oh no um but it's it's a
interesting take when you just look at general human behavior. And sure, the movie obviously gets into philosophy and tackles a little religion and whatnot, but it's really just a study on... on personalities and you know like what what the what the danger like for me like i think like the real problem of this movie is apathy you know just not to say that we need to be fucking john doe but
Just just being complacent, apathetic to shitty things around us, I think is, you know, it's not a sin that's a reference in the movie, but it's kind of like the eighth sin, like just apathy. Apathy could be a sin, 100 percent. Yeah, like it's the same process, but like it's going through all the sins as well. So we kind of like jumped around and whatnot. But like if by chance there, you know, none of your audience has actually seen Seven.
Just to give the quick synopsis of the story. So Brad Pitt is David Mills. And so he's a young cop coming to take the place of... William Somerset played by Morgan Freeman. And Morgan Freeman's already got one foot out the door. Like, you know, he's, he's ramping up to retire and he's working in.
the metro center of some you know big city where all the bad things happen and brad pitt has come from some other place where he you know he's not like a rookie rookie but he's uh he's been a detective for a while He's coming into the shithole of the city where all the bad things happen.
And, you know, with Morgan Friedman being one foot out the door, and you can kind of get your first sense of the apathy, they start walking into, they find a murder, which was... you know this big fat guy face first in the bowl a bit spaghetti uh with his uh hands and feet bound and um you know morgan freeman's like you know just like okay this is this is a bad murder but you know it is what it is and you know uh you really kind of see where um
Brad Pitt's like, you know, Mills comes into this movie and he's like this young, fresh, like, I want to do work and like, I know what I'm doing and I'm very eager to get things and, you know, Somerset's kind of like trying to tell him to calm down like that.
like a dog and settle down and then that's where like you start seeing the theme that where this might be a serial killer because they find out that some secret notes and messages were left uh that showed the word gluttony and then asked your assignment okay this is the serial killer and morgan's like i don't want to do this i'm out like this i've seen enough
I'm out. And, you know, with me being a paramedic, I've kind of seen similarities to that where like you got your old rough veterans and they've seen some things.
you know i've been doing this for for 16 years and right now we've got a lot of young pups coming in and whatnot they're all eager be you know eager beavers to try and get get things done and it's just like you know so i can kind of relate to somerset wanting to to to get out and like and not want to be a part of this uh and then you know it just starts spiraling spiraling like he starts going through all the different um the different sins and uh somerset is not allowed to to let it go
And you just kind of see Somerset also really drag himself back into it because he doesn't know anything different. Yeah. Jamie, if I may ask, and if not, then we can completely, you know, delete this. Obviously, you have seen some shit. Like, is there something that you've seen that just have made you like question like, I don't know, maybe this is not. the job for me um
I don't think there's any one specific thing. So I've been doing this for a long time. I've seen like, you know, there's good days or there's just bad days. It's not all like gore, excitement, trauma, everything like that. Sometimes it's a lot of just picking old naked ladies up off the floor.
clock in the morning when they fall over when they go to the bathroom um but i have seen some things um i am so i don't have any kids uh but pediatric calls where where there's a child death or whatnot those still stick on me and like if you know my wife and i were trying to have a kid i know if i if we do end up having a child i know those kind of calls are going to be like they're going to hit a lot harder yeah um
But like, I don't like, there's nothing there's, I've seen some really gross, like, like deaths and whatnot. And those don't really. it's not the gore or anything that sticks with me. A lot of it, a lot of it's like the kind of like emotional trauma of it. Like I can, I can say, and I'm, I'm perfectly fine. I'm talking about this by the way, but thank you for asking. Um, the only time I've ever had a, what I would say like, uh,
post-traumatic stress incidents or like a mental health injury was just strictly mostly a timing thing. Bad car accidents.
a teenager died the father was there he was the driver um and like you know we we did all we could but there was just no saving and whatnot so i was helping the father clean up his child because i think the mom and the other family were on their way as well and normally i'm really good at stuff like that i'm good at dealing with families and talking to families and helping them uh process and helping them out through that but that was the week i was getting married
Um, and so I already had a lot of stress and stuff on my plate at that point. And then, uh, I just didn't have room for this to deal, to deal with it. And so like, I had this like really crazy head fog and like, luckily. The stigma around mental health has been improving still a lot of ways to go, especially within my profession. But I knew the signs to look out for it. I was like, huh, so this is what this is like. And so I just.
And I had to like take the rest of the week off and then get through the wedding, not get through it. My wedding was awesome. It was great. But like, you know, have all that stuff off my plate and then talk to somebody and talk to a psychologist and kind of process it. And like, you know.
take just like just a little bit of time off work some people need need more time than others and i was like process i'm like okay i'm good and so that's what it is and like that's kind of the way it is for a lot of first responders and like You know, like I couldn't imagine like a homicide officer and like a big metropolitan. You probably see some crazy things or like social workers with like child abuse and stuff like that. Like it's it's a lot of there's a saying we have.
uh that like you know you gotta be careful how many socks you're putting in your drawer because it'll start overflowing so you kind of kind of organize your your drawers a little bit and make sure that you have room for more socks and so yeah like i could kind of relate to Morgan Freeman there where he's probably seen a lot of gruesome things and he saw where this storyline and these murders were going to go. And it's just like, you know.
He knew he was going to, you knew what was coming, but like, there's still a lot of people, especially in my profession who, even though they know like they, that they need help, they don't always get help. And so I can kind of, kind of see that in Morgan Freeman a little bit where like, he's kind of.
broken down and weathered down and um but it's all he knows and he doesn't really have anybody else in his life and so he kind of sucks himself back into it justin thank you very much for you know for for sharing that um um not to go from personal bleakness to on-screen bleakness but let's let's get into it man let's get the into the final act um
There's so much about this movie to unpack, but more often than not, this is a sequence of the film that is usually talked about first. I mean, to the point where it's even kind of like a social... Not meme or whatnot, but people even like cultural like zeitgeist will be like, what's in the box? Right. Something that even if something even somebody says something about a box, my brain is always like, what's in the box? So.
Let's talk. What do you think about this film's, not necessarily the overall conclusion, but the film's final act? At this point, we have our villain that, again, turned himself in. There was no chase in this movie. I mean, there was a chase about halfway through it that our hero, like I said, gets, you know, swatted in the face. But, you know.
Again, they and what's great is there was no chase. It was that we were given information on like how the FBI profile and how they're able to locate people. So there's no chase. This movie is completely devoid of a chase. Our villain turns himself turns himself in and says, all right, I'm going to I'm going to help you. And then we are going to go on this journey into.
you know, the middle of nowhere desert, California. And then we get just a really interesting three-way performance between, you know, our three central leads. So what are your thoughts?
So the final scene or scenes is one of my favorite parts of the movie, but it also has one of my least favorite parts of the movie. So. Part of my favorite parts is the three of them riding up in the car and like you kind of have the back and forth and you start to see John Doe's plan, like, you know, where his mindset is and stuff like that.
you get like little glimmers went up and now you start to see his whole thought process and why he's doing what he's doing and just like the the triangular back and forth between the three characters it really starts to build up And then, you know, you get out into the field and then they start wondering why they're coming here, why they're here at a certain time. And then, you know, Morgan Freeman gets taken away from the delivery truck that starts coming by and you start to see.
where kevin spacey really starts to or john doe start really starts to dig his hooks into mills and really start to like to build it up um and then you know you get the box and you've got then you've got like you know schrodingers
paltrow's head right in the box where it's like hey what's in the box because they never really tell you what's in the box it's like you know it's like paul fish and what's in the briefcase you never really know what's in the box it the the easy answer it's probably your head um but you know uh
like she was also pregnant it could be something about that you know you're saying like some of the other things like oh they're gonna make it the dog's head and like there's a bunch of other like you know fan theories out there about what could be in the box and then it kind of builds up um But the thing that is one of my least favorite things about the movie is that like every sin is kind of very meticulous.
and well thought out and granted like you know Mills and Somerset did throw a wrench into John Doe's plans but I feel that the the sin of envy where it was very plain like just John Doe saying I was envious of you. I was envious of your life. For me, it felt a little bit weak and like, just not, not as like substantially built up. I was like, I was envious of your perfect life where like, you know, in the buildup in the backseat of the car, he, he never really alluded to.
wanting any kind of normal life like he he's like it doesn't matter who i am i'm john doe like you know my life doesn't matter and then to make him the sin of envy just felt a little bit um kind of rushed and like not really as well substantiated whereas like you could see like brad pitt is going to become wrath brad pitt killing him is wrath like solid ending like i don't know how
Any other ending would have done well without Brad Pitt being rap. I just felt like Kevin Spacey becoming Envy wasn't... It was just a little too short for me. It was very bang, bang, like Envy Wrath. And I just wanted a little bit more out of the Envy or like a little bit better explanation or behind like... john doe's being envious of of uh mill's life what about you what do you know no i i i hear that um it's something that that i thought about as well now admittedly the first time i saw it
i remember like leaving the theater like wait all right he's a rat explain and like i remember like envy being like not it wasn't super clear to me but again i was but he actually said i'm envious of your life it was like it was like that was just a little bit too Well, it was kind of also like when when it is mentioned, it is I don't say like. Like haphazardly thrown in there, but he's like, it seems that envy is my sin.
That's what he sets, right? Yeah. And I was just like, like, okay, sure. Yeah. Like, you know, and again, it works. The delivery, the punch could have been a little bit better. Sure. Yes, I agree. Envy would have been a whole lot better if we get the scene. But again, all the crimes, all the murders, except for... This one do happen off camera. So, yeah, he could have. So, no, I get I get completely your your perspective. And I don't I don't really have too much pushback other.
than the fact that i don't know how else you do it like because i thought about like how else would i make that work work but i think it was just like and it might have been like you know it might have been just been like a studio kind of like this is how are we going to make this work and it's like well how else is this going to work uh rather than make make it like you know drawn out uh to make the scene too long or make it not fit because like you know you got to keep that level of increased
emotion from mills to get to that point where he becomes wrath so like it's it's tough like i think about all the time where it's like i don't know how else i do it but that's just the one one where it that that felt like the weakest sin out of the whole movie for me no no i'm I mean, I agree. I think the way that I think there probably was, you know, some examination on how that how we can make that work. But to keep it kind of twisty.
without any hint or inclination or whatnot. Although you do get a foreshadow when he's like, I didn't do that. Or like when it's like, oh, it's like a dog. yeah the dog I was like that was me I remember when that happened like I remember being 16 in the theater when saw that I'm like oh wait a second like my my like the wheel like the gear started turning like like something's coming something's coming like oh because he has dogs and he wasn't him like oh my god we have not seen his wife in like
45 minutes i wonder i wonder he already has pictures he knows who he is he said his name i didn't know but i remember my brain starting to like process a little bit and And then we started going over. I was like, oh, fuck. Pardon me again. Bronchitis. Apologize. But I remember being with my sister and on the drive home.
her just being like uh not inconsolable or whatnot but just kind of like oh my god oh my god um because you know you put yourself in the position of of characters often you and so At that time, she would have been, you know, an early 20-something blonde, madly in love with Brad Pitt. So, like, instantly, like, oh, my God, that could be me. Am I in the box? I'm in the box. I'm in the box.
But it's great. And I think the original screenplay, it basically cuts to black after that or something like that. And I honestly think that would have been an all right ending to it. the very end i think they just have like you know the the police captain uh our favorite drill sergeant the police captain saying yeah we'll we'll take care of him and like yeah and then somerset
I guess like, you know, because Somerset's like, yeah, whatever he needs. But and then Somerset says, I'll be around. So once again, like Somerset's not out. He just went out. Just just when I think about they pull me back in. Yep.
Um, just because you mentioned the cast and at the outset, I didn't bring up the, the cast. I, I covered a little bit who, you know, what the movie is about and everything, but, um, obviously we've, we've discussed Brad Pitt and Morgan Freeman, Gwyneth Paltrow playing Tracy.
uh kevin spacey we've mentioned but this movie has a few really really interesting cameos and a few like little smidge easter eggs too yeah like i don't have any backstory as to like why richard roundfree is in this movie like that that's the odd one just the da yeah uh but there's some other like really like like so yeah so we have um our favorite drill shot uh early early early
uh as the police captain but there's also a bunch like just little little little ones so like the very first scene where there's a dead body has nothing to do with that uh the body on the floor that's that somerset's at where brad him and brad pitt first meet that's actually the writer of the film yeah yeah yeah um and then like there's like an even smaller smaller one so
There's a scene like right after Roundtree, the district attorney is giving a speech or whatnot. Brad Pitt's trying to get by and he's getting chased by a reporter trying to ask him questions. He sneaks in through the door and there's a police officer that stops. the reporter and you just barely see his face, but it's actually, and I forget his name, but.
the he had a big role in aliens 3 and he was like the groundskeeper of rudy the the black guy with the bald head that's actually him yeah i missed that and And then Aliens 3 being the director's first ever movie. And it was literally like, you see him for like 15 seconds.
And this is not something I noticed. I was looking for like notes and trivia and stuff to kind of like, you know, we might be able to talk, talk about. And then I saw that and I was like, who? And I looked it up. I was like, huh. That's crazy. Yeah, I completely missed that. I missed that. And then Morgan Freeman's son is actually in the movie as well. He's like the kind of like the fingerprint tech. Oh, really? Okay. For a very, very, very short, short period.
Let's see. There are a couple more. Richard Schiff. I don't know if you watched the West Wing, but he was like a big character actor in the West Wing. He plays. He plays. john doe's attorney where just a really really strong scene where he's explaining well like you know like he's prepared to do this uh yeah um so really strong but yeah richard schiff really great character actor and then of course
Mark Boone. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Billion things. John C. McGinley. John C. McGinley is in this. He's the SWAT guy. So John C. McGinley from Scrubs and. um what else is he in i saw my head uh platoon is in platoon yeah platoon yeah yeah uh I'm trying to think if there's anybody else. But those are the ones that I think of. And I can't remember the name of the guy that kind of manages the sex ring thing.
That actor has been like the guy who made like the leather. Yeah. Deadly dildo. Yeah. The deadly dildo. But again, just just a series of really, really interesting, small cameos in the movie. Just again, just just something that I that I didn't cover before. At the outset, I mentioned that the screenplay was originally written in the early 90s based on Andrew Kevin Walker, Kevin Walker's experience.
going from like pennsylvania moving into the big city new york city and like you know and seeing the sins all around him yep and whatnot yep Obviously, several rewrites to do what? Oh, Howard Shore did the score. Yes. And so he like, you know, he also did like a lot of work with David Cronenberg.
as well and then silence of the lambs as well silence of the lambs like like a lot of thrillers and like you know like lord of the rings and like the song with annie lennox that won him uh uh an academy award uh was that may it be The one with Annie Legs, that was done with Shore as well, I believe. I think. Anybody out there can fact check me, I think.
But pardon me, I don't know. I was like, was that the song? No, the May It Be song was by Enya. I don't know the one by Annie Lennox. It was one of the, it was in the Lord of the Rings, like, like Roland Christ. And it won a heavy award for it. Yeah. Cool. What else? What else? I'm trying to think of some other interesting production fact notes. So Trent Reznor being in the opening credits.
who I think Fincher must have been a fan of because then he went on to work with them with Girl with the Dragon Tattoo, Social Network, Gone Girl, and where Trent Reznor and Alex Finch, where they won their Academy Award.
so it's kind of like the you know seven degrees of separation and uh you know the uh seven degrees of kevin bacon or whatever that game that we still used to play a long time ago oh yeah i'm like the the web the web of like oh yeah i'm i'm well versed in that game i'm uh it's stupid don't don't don't pass me um but you know what else uh shoot there was one more thing i was going to mention um let me see let me go back here real quick just see if there's something that like flags oh oh
So this movie, one thing that I that I really go back to is I remember being really excited about this movie. And then. chatting with some friends about this movie and they're like, eh, whatever. It's an empty. Like I had a lot of like movie nerd friends. And like, oh, it's an MTV movie. I'm like, what are you talking about? It's like New Line Cinema. It's not MTV. It's like, well, the filmmaker, he does music videos. I'm like, well, who cares? Like, well, the cut is very MTV.
I've never, ever gotten that sense. But what's funny is fast forward a few months later, the movie goes to like the festival circuit. I think it got nominated for editing at the Academy Awards. And I think. it won a bafta uh for something but then it like cleaned house at the mtv like movie awards or whatever and david fincher went on stage and said you know uh something about like making an mtv movie and like here you go but i've never really gotten the idea that
This is a music video film. And I don't know if you've got any insight on that or if you've got a perspective. But to me, I don't know. I've always looked at this movie as something I've always found extremely artistic and actually done by somebody that really understands cinema. And I don't know, man, like I said, I mentioned it shit an hour ago.
But this movie felt very 70s to me. Obviously, it was a lot more gritty, but I thought... I think the intro, especially the intro where Nine Inch Nails, the remix to Closer by Nine Inch Nails is playing, and you kind of see... I actually really liked it, but you kind of see... what john doe is doing you see him shaving with a razor blade his fingernails off because you hear throughout the movie like there's no fingerprints there's no fingerprints and it turns out he's been like
cutting off and shaving his hand and like writing in his journal. And so that the intro.
kind of felt like a like a tv series opening like you know like like almost like how like the sopranos where you hear the song and then it's like you see what's kind of going on and then it's like and and and now begins the next scene like that that's the kind of like only like kind of mtv video that kind of reminded me of it um but that's really the only only aspect of it that kind of felt like it was like kind of like a
music video-esque. The intro was like, I liked the intro, it was really cool, but it almost seemed like it was something you'd see at the beginning of this series that you're watching. Yeah, yeah. But even like the opening credits happens after like two minutes of a very, very detailed open. you know, sequence with Morgan Freeman. And I don't know, maybe my idea of what, what a music video feels like is just like super, super cut, cut, cut, cut, cut, cut. Like all like just.
where that was just a really interesting way to get. And the truth is, I don't even really think the first time you watch it, you know what you're watching other than there's.
you know somebody doing some but you don't really know uh until you watch the movie like oh and you see the journals and you're like oh okay i get you get a little bit more insight on it but some some other little easter eggs so like those journals that were uh done so apparently those were all all actually all the journals were actually handwritten it cost like this this studio like fifteen thousand dollars because they're all
actually written by somebody. I mean, you know, if the studio is going to give you a couple extra million dollars, then I might as well put that money like to like really build up.
world of it they might have saved some money because like ours reading is they they shot this in 55 days apparently had to they had to um we mentioned beginning like brad pitt was blowing up i believe if memory serves this 12 monkeys was after it was his very next film that was coming out and that came out spring of 96 I want to say I'll have to look into it, but because Brad Pitt injured himself.
in seven he apparently put his hand through a windshield yeah and if you if you watch it through because i watched it again i watched when i was watching last night and i knew about this is that you'll see him in a lot of scenes where he's actually hiding his hand is in his pocket or why not because he apparently he needed surgery
fucked up his hand like putting it through a windshield or something like that so i wonder if there's anything in 12 monkeys where that might have carried over and like oh that's cool yeah i'm gonna need to watch 12 monkeys no i mean there you go that's the next episode i will create a cocktail with 12 ingredients
But that's a really good call. I remember that's something that's always kind of like, I don't want to say it hasn't set well with me, but that's something that I've always noticed about this movie is Brad Pitt does this thing. where he's keep his hand in there like during the chase scene and whatnot another thing that like i i've seen brad pitt this in other movies but like when he's talking about stuff he's very like and this and yes and he does this well
Well, we can see what we're actually talking about because we're actually looking at each other. But it's like this gesture forward with his hands. He's like pointing with like all four fingers. And I see he does that a lot. And in some of his other movies. Yeah. Yeah. He's very like handsy.
And 12 monkeys as a point, you know, man, this has been so much fun. You know, I try to keep these around an hour or so. So I don't have much more. If there's anything else, if there's something in your notes you want to cover, but. um i just like so the only i mean blow the threes real quick but i was like reading through some of like the the potential uh people who might have played other characters and like just some of the other other people so apparently like and like how like
Many of them probably wouldn't have done such a good job. So apparently like Sylvester Stallone was offered to play Mills and I'd be like, no. And like Denzel Washington was offered to be doing it. Al Pacino was offered to be Somerset. Maybe that might've been okay, but I think Morgan, like I think outside of obviously Shawshank Redemption, this is one of my favorite like performances by Morgan Freeman where like, he's just like very like.
There's a little bit of rage character. He's very deadpan and he feels like everything's bad. But then when he's having dinner over at the mill's house, he just bursts out laughing because of the train and whatnot. And then at the very end, when he's trying to keep... uh males in line and not not kill john doe so i think that was a really good uh role by him but like val kilmer was offered uh john doe uh another really cool one michael steif from rem was actually offered to be to be uh
john doe and i was like like i'm not i'm not like a big rem fantasy is he done much acting at all i don't know any acting he's ever done yeah so that was other than he looks like a serial killer. And hey, listen, this is one Georgia boy talking about another Georgia boy, but he looks like a serial killer.
Yeah. And then the other kind of like little Easter egg that I learned and it was kind of like a neat little segue because like the beginning of the movie where Brad Pitt's kind of coming in as this newer cop to this seasoned veteran. it reminded me a little bit of training day with Denzel Washington and, um, uh, Ethan Hawke. And.
It's actually funny because the cafe where Somerset and Tracy are talking about her being pregnant, it's the same cafe from training day. Shut up. Is it really? It's an actual cafe in LA. It's actually the same cafe.
So I thought I was like, because I was thinking about like the, you know, the comparison of like, you know, like that kind of trope where you got the young cop with the seasoned veteran. Like there's that trope's been used like a bunch of times and it reminded me of training day. And I was like.
looking for like Easter eggs and trivia or whatnot. And I found that I was like, well, what do you know? Yeah. Yeah. I think just because you brought that up, not that it's not remotely related, but I think that was one of the concerns that they had about Morgan Freeman.
initially once brad pitt was because they had brad pitt on like signed on first was just to avoid that trope of you know like the uh the young up-and-coming like white cop with the the worldy like black man with knowledge uh like older cop you know that we've added lethal weapon and you know um
Well, Training Day completely flipped it upside down. But just the wise old, what Vince Vaughn mentions it, and I can't remember what fucking movie. Like, I didn't have a wise old black man to teach me. Yeah. But. You know, that was something they were concerned about with this is they were that was something they like they thought, like, well, shit, this movie, that could be a problem. But Morgan Freeman obviously did a great job. One thing that I did read is.
And this is one of like a cool thing about Andrew Kevin Walker, because I haven't heard too many. And I know it happens, but I don't hear about it too often where this original screenwriter is on set, but also doing like. spec work for it, like actually while they're doing it, actually like changing, changing scenes on the film while they're doing it, they cut down. chunk of like Somerset's lines in it so therefore like for Morgan Freeman not because he couldn't memorize lines but for
the way that Morgan Freeman would play this character, he wasn't going to be super talky. He was going to what he said when, when he spoke, there was going to be a lot of meaning and impact with what he was saying. And it was all based on like his philosophy of. this yeah they did cut out like a scene of the like it was supposed to be at the beginning movie where uh where somerset was kind of like looking at his house that he was going to move into to retire and whatnot and he apparently like
took a piece of like the wallpaper, which was a rose, which you see for a little bit. And then it played a little bit later from when he went over for dinner at the Mills house, where it kind of falls out of his pocket. So they kind of edited that out. So I think they want to maybe just.
yeah like you're saying kind of like move the walls in on worgen freeman a little bit yep um and yeah but like yeah like i read that too there were the the writer was on set kind of like helping do edits and they kind of give them the guidance of where the where the movie was going so super cool concept yeah i mean i you know i'm i'm sure i know what happens but i i don't
I don't hear about that often, you know, and so just knowing like how many different versions that this guy wrote, you know, he'd go on to write, you know, several different films. I think most notably after this, I think was Sleepy Hollow. Yeah. The wolf band. He did a bunch of producing as well, I think. And he's done a lot of script doctoring, which I think is probably...
This movie, I think, has really shown that it's something that has a skill set as being able to work on the fly and be like, all right, I can I can shake this up and work on this, that and the other. But that's all I have. But Jason, oh my God, this has been so much fun. Thank you. That was fun. I really, really enjoyed it. I would love to come on again and hopefully not take six months of procrastinating and whatnot to figure it out.
Yeah, I'll have my people contact your people. We'll figure it out. Sounds good. All right, ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Jason Lepla. Thank you. My pleasure. Again, thank you very much to Mr. Jason Lepla. How great was he, right? I mean, come on. Such a great episode. And listener, thank you for making it all this way. Please do me a favor. And if you haven't already done so, please subscribe, rate, review, et cetera.
Do me a favor, take a look at the show notes because I will have the recipe for the cocktail that Jason mentioned, the one that we've been drinking tonight, the seven Saturn. You know, it's funny because there are like over like 100 rings of Saturn. But like there are seven main rings of Saturn. So it actually pairs really well like the seven rings of Saturn, even though, again, there's like over 100, but the seven main rings of Saturn.
Dude, this was so much fun. Hopefully you enjoyed this half as much as I did. And thank you for persevering as I, again, struggle bust my way through this conversation. Only a few minor... You know, snorts and coughs and sneezes. But hey, whatever. We did it. And I think we're better for it. So that is all I have for you. Again, detailed information in the show notes.
But as always, listener, this show would not exist without you. So please do me a favor. Continue to support us. Tell your friends. And that's it. Let's wrap this on up and get this podcast out to you. Do come back. And when you do, we'll see you next time on another episode of Stanford Cinema.