1. The Selfie

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BBC Sounds. Music, radio, podcasts. A quick warning before we begin. This episode contains very strong language.

It's a cold, grey, drizzly morning in March 2018. Walking down a street in central London is Hannah. She's 25 years old. And she hesitates outside a nondescript building. Once inside, she's led into an office stuffed with filing cabinets and banks of ageing computers. She opens her bag. and pulls out a huge stack of papers that she's printed the night before. A police officer sits down opposite Hannah and takes out his notepad. Right, he says.

Start at the beginning It's taken me months to get the courage to get to this point I no longer know who I can trust I'm scared to leave the house. Scared to open my phone. The victim received the following email. Listed her accurate name. Afraid of what I'll see. Contact numbers. I grew up with Facebook and then Instagram, Gmail, WhatsApp. That's how we communicate.

The hacking was really intense. Stated that these would be used to manage her online identity. Someone has also been contacting three and pretending to be her. My phone pretty much became my enemy. Hannah talks to the officer for more than an hour, but it still feels rushed. There's so much to cover, and she worries that she won't be taken seriously. At first, the officer jokes...

He thought she was crazy. I force a smile, but actually I'm nearly in tears. Hannah leaves the police station. She's hopeful that this will be the first step. towards getting her life back to normal. That's not how it went. After dozens more visits to the police, calls... Statements. My boss received a very strange call yesterday. Questions. I've started to receive parcels. Promises of action. Two years after I stepped into that police station I got the news I was dreading.

They say there's not enough evidence to prove who's behind it. And they're closing the case.

I was back on my own. Except... I wasn't alone. You look like shit. You just want to know the truth. Many of our clients have got all kinds of STDs just by seeing you. There is so much to learn when one just follows you around. After the police gave up. I didn't know who I could trust. But there was someone. She has been working, it seems, nonstop to expose Facebook.

I'm an investigative journalist, and when all this was happening to Hannah, I was busy working on the most all-consuming story I've ever done. Cambridge Analytica Facebook story. It's been four years since Hannah first opened up to me and told me the whole story. Yet we're still trying to make sense of what's been happening to her.

What's so dangerous is that you don't know. This intruder in Hannah's life knows about technology. It's how they stay in the shadows. The longevity and the scope of this, how it ran, is unusual. You can't just pay for a ticket for London Fashion Week. You've got to be the right person to get access. What starts as a quest to unmask Hannah's intruder? What it's called in the literature is identity leakage.

leads us on a trail of deception that spans London, Miami and Hong Kong. You're either on the inside or you're on the outside. Where are we? Whoever's behind this campaign knows a lot about Hannah. Finally saw you. You look good in blonde hair. They might even be listening to this podcast. Are you doing okay? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was just really horrible to read that. And now she wants answers from them. Do you really want to work? Yeah.

Sounds like a Bandora's box. From BBC Sounds, this is Stalked. I'm Hannah Mossman-Moore. And I'm Carol Cadwalader. Episode 1. The Selfie. I'm an investigative journalist with The Guardian and Observer. And Hannah is... Well, Hannah is... Here's the tricky bit, because there's not actually a name for our relationship in the English language. Officially, Hannah is my ex-stepdaughter. That sounds like I've been removed from your life. My dad's the ex. He's the one who fucked up. I like that.

I went out with her dad, Dave, a million years ago. So I've known her since she was seven. And Carol was a really important part of my life. But it's kind of funny because I was your age then. Is that scary? Yeah, it's scary. That is a bit scary. Your dad really facilitated us maintaining a relationship after we split up, which was, you know, I always thought was such a sort of gift. Although we've remained close...

When Hannah was at her lowest points, I was pretty oblivious to what was really going on in her life. Not least because in 2016, I fell down a bizarre rabbit hole. that led me to reporting on Trump and Brexit and what would go on to become a very well-known firm called Cambridge Analytica. Now it's being linked to an alleged... We discovered how it harvested a ton of Facebook data. 87 million Facebook users who unwittingly... And then used it to target people politically. Via Facebook.

Carol Cadwallader broke the Cambridge Analytica Facebook story. We are now living in different realities. After a whistleblower claims the company misled Facebook users in order to collect their personal data. If you start to warp the perception of voters... without their consent or knowledge, they are voting on things that they think are real but aren't necessarily true. It was a huge story, but it became totally all-consuming.

What we have seen in Cambridge Analytica, the allegations are clearly very concerning. Some of those answers may be held by Cambridge Analytica. Tonight, Mark Zuckerberg once again facing skeptical lawmakers. Was your data included in the data sold to the malicious third party? your personal data? Yes. Mark, what went wrong? So this was a major breach of trust, and I'm really sorry.

The thing is, I've just really had no idea of how bad things had got for Hannah. And I really wish I had been there for her more. And I wasn't. doing this podcast is perhaps my way of trying to make up for that trying to help her make sense of everything that's happened and actually it turned out there are more

parallels, perhaps, with my own experience than I first realised too. But first, we need to go back to the beginning of Hannah's story. So you brought this bag and it's pretty heavy. Yeah. The first time Hannah came into the BBC, she's brought in a bag containing... printouts of some of the emails she was sent over this period. It's kind of a phone book. Yeah. By the way, the two other voices you can hear in the background here, that's producers Georgia Cat and Rob Byrne.

And we formed a pretty tight little team making this podcast. And you'll be hearing a lot more of them throughout the series. Definitely 500 sheets plus. I went to bed last night. And I printed everything. When I woke up this morning, the printer was still going and the paper had run out. It's a lot. Hannah opens up her computer and goes to her emails.

clicks back through about 250 pages to a single message. Its subject reads, establishing email contact. The place I'd love to start from. So, yeah, this is where it starts. It's 2015, the year before I began my Cambridge Analytica investigation. It was the year of the Paris Charlie Hebdo attacks and when the internet melted down over whether a dress was black and blue or gold and white.

And in Britain, the Conservatives win a general election and pledge to hold a referendum on whether the UK should remain in the European Union or not. Hannah is 23. just out of university, obsessed with fashion and especially jewellery, and had landed her dream job. She was an intern for this brand new jewellery start-up called Allegary, and she lived and breathed it. It's now a pretty successful company.

And it was while working for Alighieri at London Fashion Week that she met Kin. And it was because of a connection to Kin that a strange ensemble of characters or hackers... would start contacting her. Though we're getting ahead of ourselves here. London Fashion Week is, it's like another world. On the street, outside. There's a mob of sort of fashion groupies dressed in really extravagant outfits. Purple hair and platforms and massive makeup hoping to be packed.

It's just like in New York, Paris and Milan. Everyone's there for a week. The world's best designers, models and fashion's most influential people are all in town. There's something in the atmosphere that's like going into a casino where the oxygen levels are pumped up so you feel, hey, I could hang out here. Can I just say that it sounds like a complete freaking nightmare?

That literally sounds like my idea of hell. Hannah was working in what's called the designer showrooms, a place brands make connections with potential buyers. My job was literally to... network around the room and make contact with international buyers. And as she's doing this, she sees a friend of hers walk in. I would probably describe him as the male equivalent of an it girl. He was an attractive 30-something, always seen in all the right places, often in magazines, on social media.

And he was there with someone Hannah didn't recognise. When I saw this friend walk in the room, I called him over. And this guy... Kin came over with him. He told me that he was connected with all the buyers in Asia and he was big in the fashion world. He was dressed quite well and knew everyone. and had a real confidence about him.

Kin was in his late 40s, early 50s, hard to tell. He was from Hong Kong and he described himself as a big deal in the Asian fashion market. And in the hustle of London Fashion Week, he stood out. He was really well dressed, smelt like expensive perfume. He had a very sort of glossy, polished face. He was very manicured. And he had a presence. He was really busy and he kind of knew everyone. He was, you know, let's catch up later and I can really help you out. So that was the first time we met.

I didn't question who he was. That first day they met, Kin invited Hannah to an exclusive hair salon for London Fashion Week VIPs. He waltzed in and they sat down and both had their hair done. As Hannah tells us this story in an echoey meeting room in the bowels of the BBC... He asked me to take a selfie. She pulls up a selfie on her laptop.

And that was when this selfie was taken. It's Hannah, a baby Hannah, fresh-faced, 23 years old, next to a guy, smart, well-dressed, and they're both smiling. He emailed me first. Hey, this is just to email contact. And our sleepless in London Fashion Week photo didn't come through on message you sent me. This email you're hearing, like all the emails you'll hear in this series, is real. They're taken from that time and, unless stated otherwise, are read by an actor.

And then I sent it. SS16, who needs sleep when you look this beautiful? It's kind of amazing, that's like where it all... But you've got a photo of basically where the whole thing began. I know. I wish at this moment someone had said to me, OK, turn around. Over the course of London Fashion Week, Hannah saw Kin a few more times, always working the floor. He would just kind of waltz around the place and he looked important. Doors open for him.

And when they did, he invited Hannah through. He said, would you like to come to the Giles Deacon show with me? Is that a big deal? It's one of the really hyper-exclusive shows. They're really... particular about who they invite. And we were seated on the front row. Front row catwalks at London Fashion Week are super exclusive. Think top models, top fashion editors.

We've seen photos of Kin there next to British celebrities and pop stars. In one, he's right behind Vogue editor Anna Wintour. Did Kin react to like sitting next to these celebrities? Not at all. And that's something I really liked. He wasn't at all impressed and sort of bitched about them. That made me laugh. And it wasn't just the fashion shows. Kin knew his way around London's most exclusive clubs and restaurants. Then we go to this rooftop spot called Radio Bar. And when we get there...

There was a queue of people because it's Fashion Week. Places are full. And Kin knew the guy on the door. And so we skipped the queue, went straight in. We were treated like royalty. It was really nice to have a sort of Fashion Week buddy.

London Fashion Week ends. Hi Hannah, this is Kin's EA Claire. I am rescheduling Kin's launch. And when it does, Hannah receives an email from Kin's executive assistant. A woman called Claire. Very best, Claire. Claire Perrin, EA to Kin Hung. Hi Claire, thank you for the kind invitation. Hannah couldn't make it and she told Claire. Best Hannah. And then Kin replied.

He was at Milan Fashion Week. Just going to the Dolce & Gabbana catwalk and after party. There's nothing stopping you to come to Milano. You're following up leads with buyers. Just pack and get on a plane. You might get here in time for the D&G party. My company very generous this season and booked me a suite. There's a sofa bed in the... Would love to come to Milano, but I have some commitments in London. Hannah told Kin she couldn't come to Milan, but they started emailing.

Kin telling Hannah what he was up to. Partying harder is Milano. I love Milano at Fashion Week that celebrates Italy in all its wonders. Just been to the Dolce & Gabbana after party. Just seen Giorgio Armani catwalk this morning, which is my last show in Milan. What are your plans tomorrow? We were super busy in the run-up to Christmas. I think we met once for a coffee in London.

And it was nice to catch up. We were keeping in touch via email. He would ask me how I am, give me a bit of advice. I found it quite comforting to have someone older who knew the industry. So, Han, I've got a question to ask you. At this point, did you think that he was trying to make you into his girlfriend? I think... I knew he was attracted to me. We really got on. We had a really good connection. We had fun together. We made each other laugh. And I thought that I could...

steer that into a friendship. You are already a great friend of mine. We're pretty open about it. And therefore... I don't want to hurt you. I said, for me, this is a friendship. I'm not looking for anything else. He would say, OK, and he would say, like, silly things. Am I correct to say that we both want to hang out together and enjoy each other's company? Why are you making things so complicated?

I wasn't the only person of my age hanging out with him. His friend, who I met the other day, said he had this very fashion-y, international persona. Like, he was just attractive and flamboyant and people wanted to be around him.

and spend time with him. So the thing you have to know about Hannah is she's both very pretty and she's also extremely nice to people. So... She's endlessly being hit on. She's also, and this is an important factor in this story, loves a bit of glamour and excitement. Basically, Hannah. Hannah.

He had access to a world of glamour and luxury, and that was quite attractive, right? Yeah, but also being an intern for a jewellery brand, you would be sent out to get the coffee. You wouldn't... be in on the exciting meetings but all of a sudden kin really believed in me he wanted to mentor me that felt really good

Hannah was grafting like crazy for almost zero money in an entry-level job, running pop-up stalls at design fairs. How was the first day working with a pop-up? The pop-up is awful. Barely surviving on the minimum wage. Living with her dad. Doing it again today and all of next week. Sad face. Help. Kin's life in contrast seemed so glamorous.

I decided to fly to Puglia tomorrow, southern Italy, for a few days. Top up my tan. Antigua is great and I love it here. Less humid in the other islands like St. Lucia. I was watching Sunset on the beach sipping cocktails. A pair of dolphins were following our boat yesterday. Great shows and after parties and fun people. So the thing about Hannah is that she can come across as this quite...

rich, privileged, posh girl. And she is privileged. As a teenager, she went to this very fancy private school. But she went to that school because her mum, who was a single parent, got a teaching job there. And her dad is a really talented freelance photographer, which is how I got to know him. It's not a particularly well-paid profession, however. So he's always odd-jobbed as a van driver or decorator or handyman.

to make ends meet. So although neither of them ever had much money, Hannah was surrounded by people who were posh or moneyed or both. And that made her a bit of an outsider. Do you know the film when Lindsay Lohan... arrives back from Africa and goes to this mean girls go to this school where there's these girls who are like really mean to her that sort of very fancy grand school and you said that when you arrived there that actually

They were, it was literally mean girls. Yeah. I was 14, 13, 14, and I arrived wearing combat trousers. Birkenstocks, which are now cool. No, not for a 13-year-old. And everyone was wearing the same. Ralph Lauren cashmere v-necks, strings of pearls. Pearls? Yeah, strings of pearls and pearl earrings, mini skirts. Yeah, it was...

Lindsay Lohan. They were really mean to you. They were really mean to me for a year. And then I discovered that there was a demand for alcohol and cigarettes. And I got a fake ID. And I was like, hey guys, I'm going to the supermarket. Do you want to put in your orders? And then I got into a lot of trouble. but that sort of added to my street cred. I became cool. After school, Hannah went to Edinburgh University to study philosophy.

Again, she found herself surrounded by people with money. But Hannah needed to work, so she started running club nights. She's the tough girl with the clipboard. No, no, no, yes, no. As her friend Casper remembers, that's not his real name, by the way. He asked us to change it. I like Casper for him.

I mean, she was like doing events left, right and center. She was always so enterprising at university. She always had something on the go. And that's how she, one of the reasons why she knew so many people. She was like a bit of a B-knock, you know. We had to Google this. Beanoch, by the way, is big name on campus. Hannah was the first person I came out to. Encouraging, kind. She has the best talent in going up to absolutely anyone.

Skipping the small talk, everyone liked her. She can charm the pants off anyone. We'll hear more from Casper later in this series. For Hannah, that sense of having to work doubly hard continued after university, and pretty soon she knew she wanted to be a jewellery designer in her own right. And this definitely exists in fashion. And I really have seen this play out. Some of your peers just take 10 steps ahead really quickly. Just because of connections and money.

I had that experience when I went from a Welsh comprehensive school to Oxford and was sort of plunged into this sort of light cup. completely different milieu for my experience being at university was that for wherever you came from you're kind of on a level you're all just students and then it's when you leave university and some people fly off to new york to go to film school sorry that was a really bad example because it's quite

My sort of take upon it was that these things maybe are still possible, but it's just going to take you longer. And I feel like for myself, it just took me a long time. Definitely. Things can happen for them in one year and for you in ten years. Hannah didn't want it to take a long time to get to where she wanted to be. I think I just was so determined. I just couldn't get there quickly. It was like in the real kind of rat race world. And into this rat race came Kin.

I saw him as an immediate fast track. He was a mentor. He was always like, OK, I'm going to help you get there. From the start, Hannah didn't even need to ask for things Kin just offered. Hi, Claire. Please action the following. She told him she'd be going to Paris Fashion Week and he and Claire, his executive assistant, would be emailing to help her find somewhere to stay. Check if there's any...

He would make things way easier for me. Hannah was looking to do something on her own, maybe to go to art school, maybe set up her own jewellery business. Whatever it was, Kin was there to help. Didn't he email Jimmy Choo for you? Hi, Jimmy. Yes. Kung Hai Fa Choi. It's been a while. He knew him. He knew lots of really famous business people. School of Creative Arts with a BA jewellery design course at Central St. Martins. Hope to catch up with you soon. Very best, Kin.

And it wasn't just mentoring. Kin was there for Hannah as a friend too. When Hannah moved into a new flat, Kin gave her some furniture. He was like, I've got some furniture, I'm going to send it over. Did actually try to help him where I could in return. He was a Hong Kong national, but he was really interested in the UK property market.

Hey, I viewed Hillfield Castle near Sherbourne. And he would always ask me for my advice. Did you know this house near your old school? So he would ask for my advice on different areas and I would help him out where I could. I can definitely see why your parents sent you to Sherbourne, but you should count your lucky stars that they didn't put you in Liverpool like mine. Sad face. At this mention of a school in Liverpool, it's time to take stock.

So what did you know about him at this point? I didn't know a lot at all. So I'm pretty sure he had a British passport, was a Hong Kong national. Did he talk about his family? He... Had siblings in the UK, I think, and his parents. I think he said they were in Switzerland. So did you have a sense that he was from a sort of family money? Either that he had...

done really well himself or was from family money. He was very mysterious, but I think I had met a lot of high-flying business people who just didn't want to peacock. Because it was uncool. Just being like, oh no, let's not talk about my business and my let's just enjoy the moment. Kaden was definitely enjoying the moment. I'm going to Miami next from 8th January 2016.

Glorious London this morning with lovely sunshine. And when he emailed, he'd asked for tips for places. Like when he was visiting Miami, he asked, Did you manage to get any Miami recommendations from your friend? Have one contact in Miami Soho House. I can email them now. You should stay there for a night. It had good pancakes and nice to hang out by the pool. Yeah. Did you have a contact in Miami Soho House?

No, I don't think so. I think I was always trying to sound sophisticated. He was getting me into a lot of places, so I do slightly... alter things about my life. This picture of Hannah hanging out in Soho House, poolside in Miami, contacts with the management, all very, very sophisticated. It's just a front. When I went to Miami, so her house, it was because I was on a nannying job in the break at university for my friends.

distant families. But basically you had this like insane exposure to this like glamorous lifestyle of the rich and famous at a young age, didn't you? Yeah, I did. Private jets, helicopters. So I went with them. We went to Costa Rica via Miami for one night and stayed in Miami Beach House. I didn't tell him that I was there nannying. I was making it sound like I was there on holiday. So how did the relationship develop?

He was always there in the background, would send me interesting articles and often check in, how are you, how's it going? And he was really supportive. Once in a while when he was in London, maybe once or twice a month, we would meet up. We'd go to exclusive parties and he was really into new restaurant openings. It's always the same.

We walk straight in, get the best service, the best table. If we don't get that, Kin walks out. We would discuss things that were really interesting to me, like... business of fashion um the current climate of the fashion industry and he'd helped me with the kind of things that i needed to know in order to start my own business i guess

If you have this level of contact with anyone for a few months, it becomes like a habit. But then, out of the blue in April 2016, about... Eight months after we'd first met, an email arrived from Kin's address. But it wasn't Kin. This is Kin's girlfriend. Yeah, this was the first I'd heard about a girlfriend.

He never spoke about a girlfriend. He was never with a girlfriend. He was always free. So I just didn't think it made sense for him to have a girlfriend. It could have been possible, but I think... Also, when somebody's wanting to spend time with you and go out with you, you just automatically think this person doesn't have a girlfriend. So I replied. Hi, it's great to meet you, albeit virtually. Smiley face.

But then it got weirder. I am Kin's boyfriend. Nice to meet you too. This is Kin's ladyboy. Great to meet you. Sadly, I have been his boyfriend for over 20 years. Kin has ruined my life with his cheating and lies. I punish myself with adding a tattoo to my body every time Kin cheats on me. He said he was being hacked and just to ignore it.

What did you make of that? I just thought, wow, that really sucks. I hadn't really heard of someone actually getting into your emails and sending it from your account. So I thought... gosh, that is quite a severe hack. And I felt sorry for him. The strange emails stopped.

as quickly as they'd started. In 2016, when she was 24, Hannah got an internship at a gemstone company in Sri Lanka and moved out there. I was really busy, I was abroad, working, I was very distant. And then I got dengue fever in 2017 and I got really, really sick. I was hospitalised. I came back to the UK, had to give up my job. And so when I got back to London, I was in and out of hospital. And Kin...

stepped back into my life. Hey, just arrived and waiting for my ride in Arrival's Lounge. Call me when you can later and catch up. When Hannah was sick, Kin would come and see her. He brought her the chicken soup he said his mum always made him when he was ill. And then as she got better, he was still there. My peers were, you know, that stage in your early 20s where it's like...

hardcore working and drinking. And I just couldn't do that. Kin was offering something different. Below is my schedule tonight and you are on both guest lists. London Fashion Week catwalks 15th and 19th. BTW, I've been invited to the Emporio Armani party this Sunday. Hopefully see you at some point tonight and hang out before the Fashion Week. Smiley face.

That was the dream. That was the dream. But then, in November 2017... This is Kin's girlfriend. Kin was hacked. What relationship do you have with Kin? BTW, why does Kin want you when he has me? Look at my fab body. My booty is only for Kin. Keep away from him. And a week later... Another hack. This time written in all caps. He has tons of money and won't make a dent. You have no idea who he is and how much money he has got. Do you, lady?

Why he spent so much money to erase himself from the internet and add fake personal info to throw us off the trail. He thinks he is a ghost on the internet and so clever he can throw us off the trail with fake IFO. He underestimated us. We tracked down his digital past. And I remember I was at my dad's house and this popped up. And we were all like, whoa.

Destruction starts. Oh, my God. What were you thinking when those happened? To be honest, I just thought that, OK, he's a wealthy guy. Obviously, he's going to get hacked. I was just thinking that it's hackers and it was weird. Yeah. I thought it was hackers. Wealthy guy. Yeah. Sadly, the hackers stepped up in the early hours.

Kin was clearly stressed out by the hack. I feel so sad. There's no way I'm going to pay these people help. So my only option is to report these hackers to the police. They're trying to destroy me. Please do not delete messages that were sent to you as the police might want to see them. Hannah forwarded Kin the emails. Which email address did you send them to? And they sort of...

Just moved on. She put it down to a weird hack. Please be assured that I'm not hiding anything from you. Night. Yeah, I thought, oh, that sucks. I was like, I guess this is what happens. Yeah. And now? Now it just confuses me still. So it was that same week he invited you to Florida and this very prestigious art event. I was wondering if you could come to Naples from the 5th. I had always wanted to go to Art Basel. Hey, could 7th to the 11th work? Not just tickets to Art Basel, but...

Entry to the opening party, incredibly prestigious and exclusive at the Miami Soho Beach House. You should come along. I've got tickets to the opening party. 7th and 11th December sounds good. OK, confirm later in the week. And how long are you known him for at this point? We met in 2015. This is now 2017. So two years. I feel I know him. Hey, let's confirm Naples-Miami trip now.

I remember her telling me about the trip and feeling uncomfortable about it. He was an older guy, Hannah was very young, and you're probably wondering, why didn't I try and stop her? Well... Chance would have been a fine thing. But I also did loads of quite reckless things when I was in my early 20s. And she was an adult and really excited about going on this glamorous trip.

I think she mentioned it to me that she was coming out to Florida. That's my half-brother. And it seemed completely innocent. It seems charming, wealthy, mental. So she's in her 20s still at this point. You know, she's quite young, just wanting to explore the world. Yeah, I remember telling my dad as well. It rang a few alarm bells at the same time I was thinking.

I'm not entirely happy about this, but then I thought... You said that to me. The other bits of me didn't want to interfere too much, just to, you know, give you your wings. Yeah, so I felt bad about that later on. I hadn't done more.

Name, Hannah Mossman-Moore. Booking reference, KBH. Now, what do you want to say to yourself? Don't go. Really don't go. Next time, that trip to Florida turns into a nightmare. He got a weird message. For Kin. He started to get hacked. And... for hannah pay for your flight over to florida is your relationship with kin i just want to know the truth

Stalked is hosted by me, Carol Cadwalader. And me, Hannah Mossman-Moore. The producers are Georgia Cat and Rob Byrne. Theme music and vocals are by Rebecca Lucy Taylor, a.k.a. Self Esteem. Original music is by Phil Channel. Sound design by Phil Channel, Rob Byrne and Georgia Cat. Kin's emails are voiced by actor Zach. The series editor is Philip Sellers. The Commissioner at BBC Sounds is Dylan Haskins. Stalked is a BBC Studios audio production for BBC Sounds and Radio 5 Live.

It's not funny. It's true. Lily Allen and Makita Oliver. Keats, I've got some questions for you. BBC Sounds. Tell me what you've enjoyed about our podcast so far. that you've got more and more comfortable in this space and I've watched you show all parts of yourself. We've both cried. Miss Me with Lily Allen and Makita Oliver. We're just us having a chat. Feels like we've been doing it forever. We kind of have. Listen on BBC Sounds.

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