What would you do if you were told to do whatever was necessary to get a prisoner to talk? This is the situation that career CIA officer Glenn Carle found himself in when he was made the lead interrogator for a detainee who was said to be a member of Al Qaeda’s top echelon. Carle, the author of the recently published book, The Interrogator: An Education, tells Peter what it was like to be in this position. And, he describes how he got on the wrong side of CIA Headquarters (HQ) when he objected t...
Sep 23, 2011•35 min•Ep. 77
The war with Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda did not begin on September 11th. CIA analyst Cindy Storer was there from the beginning in the early 1990s, a member of a small band of mostly female analysts who worked on Al Qaeda long before September 11. They faced a frustrating uphill battle convincing others about this new threat and were subjected to ridicule for their supposedly excessive passion right up until September 11th. Hear Cindy discuss with SPY Historian Mark Stout what it was like to be...
Sep 09, 2011•30 min•Ep. 76
In 2009, the CIA’s partners in the Jordanian General Intelligence Directorate had a source named Humam Khalil al-Balawi working inside Al Qaeda and he knew where Ayman al-Zawahiri, the number two man in al Qaeda was…or so they thought. In fact, Al Qaeda was running a deception. In December 2009 al-Balawi came to a CIA base in Khost, Afghanistan and detonated bomb strapped to his chest, killing seven CIA officers and one Jordanian intelligence officer. It was the CIA’s greatest loss of life in de...
Aug 16, 2011•37 min•Ep. 75
The 13-year search for Osama Bin Laden may have seemed unprecedented, but actually such events have not been uncommon in American history. Since the days of Geronimo, the United States has embarked on at least eleven such “strategic manhunts.” Benjamin Runkle, the author of the new book Wanted Dead or Alive: Manhunts from Geronimo to Bin Laden, sits down with SPY Historian Mark Stout to discuss what we can learn from the history of these manhunts. Find out what kind of intelligence it takes to t...
Aug 02, 2011•29 min•Ep. 74
Khalid Shaikh Mohammed was behind many of the most heinous terrorist plots of the past twenty years, including the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, the Millenium Plots, and 9/11 itself. He even claims to have personally beheaded Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl. Investigative journalist Richard Miniter brings to life the remarkable story of “KSM,” including his time living in the United States. Based on interviews with government officials, generals, diplomats and spies from around the ...
Aug 01, 2011•1 hr 6 min•Ep. 73
“Wild Bill” Donovan was a World War I hero with a Medal of Honor to prove it, a millionaire Wall Street lawyer, and a prominent Republican. Democratic President Franklin Roosevelt chose this brilliant yet disorganized visionary to be his spymaster, head of the World War II Office of Strategic Services (OSS). Veteran journalist Douglas Waller has written a compelling biography of William Donovan. He describes Donovan’s reckless nature: how he needlessly risked his life on foreign battlefields and...
Jul 13, 2011•1 hr 6 min•Ep. 72
A great deal of public attention goes to the CIA’s case officers who recruit and run agents and steal secrets. However, few people pay attention to the fact that those secrets are stolen so that they can be put on desks of intelligence analysts. Analysts, then, must put together information from both secret sources and open sources to produce insightful assessments to inform the nation’s leaders. Randy Pherson, a former senior official at the CIA and the President of Pherson Associates, teaches ...
Jul 01, 2011•28 min•Ep. 71
After killing Osama bin Laden, the SEALs reportedly took hundreds of drives, disks, and computers from the house in Abbottabad, Pakistan. What challenges will American intelligence agencies face in exploiting bin Laden’s computers and what can be learned from the computer of a terrorist mastermind? SPY Historian Mark Stout discusses the complexities of digital dumpster diving with Wall Street Journal reporter Alan Cullison, who in 2001 purchased and exploited a computer used by Ayman al-Zawahiri...
Jun 16, 2011•30 min•Ep. 70
What are the implications of Osama bin Laden’s death for the al Qaeda movement? What role did waterboarding and “enhanced interrogation techniques” play in tracking down Bin Laden and should we reassess our views of torture? Peter explores these provocative questions with naval intelligence veteran and counterterrorism expert Malcolm Nance, the author of An End to al Qaeda: Destroying bin Laden’s Jihad and Restoring America’s Honor. As a SERE instructor, Nance has been waterboarded and has condu...
May 20, 2011•33 min•Ep. 69
The East German security service, the Stasi, was infamous for surveilling and oppressing the East German population. However, it also hunted Western spies and there were many to be found; the CIA, the West German BND, and Britain’s MI-6 were all very active. In fact, from 1955 to 1989 the Stasi uncovered more than 1300 foreign spies operating in East Germany. Join SPY Historian Mark Stout as he discusses Stasi counterespionage with Professor Paul Maddrell who has been working in the Stasi archiv...
May 09, 2011•34 min•Ep. 68
Montana resident Shannen Rossmiller is proof that things are not as they seem online. Before September 11, she was a judge, a wife, and a mother but not an expert on terrorism or an Arabic speaker. After September 11, she taught herself Arabic and started to explore the world of online jihadism, pretending to be a male terrorist. She soon found that real jihadists were willing to share their secrets with her. She turned these secrets over to the FBI and as a result some of her online acquaintanc...
Apr 21, 2011•32 min•Ep. 67
During the Korean War, US military intelligence worked with anti-communist Korean agents and partisans to collect information from behind North Korean lines. SPY Historian Mark Stout interviews Colonel Douglas Dillard, USA (Ret.) who led AVIARY operations, the airborne insertion of the agents and partisans, and Mr. James M. H. Lee, a native of North Korea, who worked at his side as an interpreter. Learn what it was like flying at night over North Korea in a blacked out plane and hear about the c...
Mar 16, 2011•31 min•Ep. 66
Social media—Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, and others—are held up as powerful tools for peoples trying to overthrow police states. Iran’s “Twitter Revolution” electrified the world and the Egyptian government shut off Internet access as demonstrations swept that country. However, Evgeny Morozov of Stanford University, one of the leading thinkers about the political impact of new media, explains to SPY Historian, Mark Stout that they are less powerful than we normally think; worse, “the KGB wants y...
Feb 01, 2011•30 min•Ep. 65
In 2007, the New England Patriots were caught videotaping the New York Jet’s sideline defensive signals. That was illegal, but it’s remarkable what is allowed, even routine. From surveillance films, to secure communications, to briefing books, and deception operations, the intelligence activity conducted for the gridiron warriors is as intense as that conducted for the US military. T. J. Waters joins Peter Earnest and Dan Treado of the International Spy Museum to discuss his new ebook, Prior to ...
Jan 26, 2011•24 min•Ep. 64
During the Cold War, the United States, the United Kingdom, and France each had a “military liaison mission” authorized to roam East Germany. While the fiction was that they existed to coordinate military affairs with the Soviets in Germany, the reality was that they collected intelligence on the Soviet military. Join Spy Museum Historian Mark Stout as he talks with Brigadier General Roland Lajoie, a former chief of the US Military Liaison Mission, about the accomplishments, adventures, and trag...
Jan 05, 2011•37 min•Ep. 63
Shirley Perry was recruited to join the CIA in 1951, a time when applications were handed out “under the counter” at the university job office, and when the CIA lived in rodent-infested temporary buildings on the National Mall. What was it like to be a young woman in the Agency at that time, and to be sent to Vienna—the front line of the Cold War—to support intelligence operations? Shirley Perry, former CIA case officer, reminisces with Peter about those early days and talks about her new memoir...
Dec 17, 2010•25 min•Ep. 62
David Kahn is the author of the classic book The Codebreakers. When it was first published in 1967, the National Security Agency was concerned that the book might reveal sensitive secrets. Over the years, however, NSA changed from perceiving Kahn as “an enemy of the people” to depending on him as a popularizer of codebreaking. Join Peter and David Kahn as they discuss Kahn’s career, some of the greatest triumphs of American signals intelligence history, and the challenges facing today’s codebrea...
Dec 06, 2010•22 min•Ep. 61
Britain’s Secret Intelligence Service, better known as MI6, is James Bond’s home agency and one of the world’s most secretive organizations. The British government did not even admit that it existed until the 1990s. Yet, in connection with its centennial year, the service has commissioned an outside scholar to write an official history of its first forty years. Peter chats with Professor Keith Jeffery, the only outsider who has ever seen the MI6 archives and given their penchant for secrecy perh...
Nov 01, 2010•32 min•Ep. 60
American diplomats Mark and Cora Lijek were hiding at the home of a Canadian diplomat as the Iranian Revolution swirled around them. Peter continues his discussion with the Lijeks and also welcomes Tony Mendez, the CIA officer who led the daring operation to bring them home. Hear how they escaped the country posing as Hollywood filmmakers and the joy they felt as they finally left Iranian airspace.
Oct 14, 2010•26 min•Ep. 59
When Iranian militants stormed the US Embassy in Tehran, Mark and Cora Lijek and four other American diplomats slipped out a side exit and found themselves on the run in a hostile country. Before long, Canadian diplomats gave them shelter but now they had to avoid discovery while Washington hatched an audacious plan to rescue them. The Lijeks discuss with Peter their ordeal and how they prepared to escape.
Sep 28, 2010•28 min•Ep. 58
Today Peter converses with Dino Brugioni, a pioneer of the art of photo interpretation and a living legend of the US Intelligence Community. Dino shares his personal experiences briefing Presidents and describes the role that he and overhead photography played in such seminal Cold War events as the “missile gap” and the Cuban Missile Crisis. Dino Brugioni has looked inside the most secret places on earth…from above..
Aug 16, 2010•38 min•Ep. 57
A young student in the US when the Iranian Revolution happened in 1979, Reza Kahlili rejoiced and hurried back to his native country, but he soon found that "every promise that Khomeini had made was vividly a lie." In the early 1980s, he made contact with the CIA, agreeing to risk his life and his family's wellbeing as a spy within Iran. He discusses with Peter how he burrowed inside the regime's elite Revolutionary Guard to report what he found, balancing his constant fear against his Persian p...
Jul 21, 2010•31 min•Ep. 56
Two weeks ago on 27 June, the FBI arrested a network of 10 Russian "deep cover" spies. Peter sits down with former KGB Major General Oleg Kalugin to discuss this remarkable case and the historic spy swap which took place last Friday. Kalugin, who once ran agents in the United States, is forthright in expressing his views about what this case says about the state of Russian intelligence today.
Jul 12, 2010•30 min•Ep. 55
Mosab Hassan Yousef was the nearest thing to royalty in the terrorist group Hamas: the son of one of its founding members. He was also a spy for Shin Bet, Israel's internal security agency, which dubbed him the "Green Prince." Today Mosab and his Shin Bet handler sit down with Peter to discuss their dangerous game and his book Son of Hamas.
Jul 02, 2010•50 min•Ep. 54
Martha Peterson, a 32 year CIA veteran, was the first female case officer assigned to Moscow. Today she talks with Peter about her sudden capture by the Soviet KGB while executing a covert operation in Moscow.
Jun 04, 2010•33 min•Ep. 53
In 1973 Captain Gail Harris became the first woman to hold a combat intelligence job in the U.S. Navy. Her 28 year career included hands-on leadership in the intelligence community during every major conflict from the Cold War to Desert Storm to Kosovo. Today, she discusses with Peter her unique experience providing intelligence support to military operations and the challenges of developing policies for defense against cyber warfare.
May 07, 2010•24 min•Ep. 52
Shane Harris is a staff correspondent for National Journal and the former technology editor of Government Executive magazine. In his new book, The Watchers, he chronicles the government’s efforts to create a computer system capable of analyzing data and identifying terrorist activity. Harris contends that while pinpointing threats remains difficult, the governments can now spy on U.S. citizens with ease. He joins Peter today to discuss the evolution of surveillance, America’s changing views on p...
Apr 19, 2010•27 min•Ep. 51
Elizabeth Macintosh continues to offer her insights into OSS. This time, she talks about the many fascinating and colorful people she met at OSS, including Director William “Wild Bill” Donovan and Virginia Hall.
Mar 01, 2010•25 min•Ep. 50
Dr. Herbert Lin is chief scientist at the Computer Science and Telecommunications Board, National Research Council of the National Academies. An expert on cyber security, Herb discusses various aspects of cyber attacks, including ways in which cyber weapons can be used for covert action. To view his co-edited report on this subject, visit: http://www.anagram.com/berson/nrcoiw.pdf
Feb 17, 2010•26 min•Ep. 49
Melissa Mahle served from 1988-2002 at the CIA, much of the time as a case officer dealing with terrorist issues in the Middle East, running agents and gathering intelligence. Today, she discusses with Peter her perspective on the recent suicide bombing of a CIA base in Afghanistan, the perils of collecting intelligence in a war zone, as well as the terrorist challenge.
Jan 20, 2010•30 min•Ep. 48
