‘Social Media: Do Soft Tissue Therapists Really Need It?’ with guests Katie Bell & Daniel Lawrence

You're listening to the Sports Therapy Association podcast, putting evidence back into soft tissue therapy. Music.

And we're live. Hey people, how are you doing? Welcome to the Sports Therapy Association podcast. My name is Matt Phillips, creativeonechatlive.com. And as always, this episode is being recorded live at eight o'clock on a Tuesday evening on the Sports Therapy Association YouTube channel and Facebook page.

So tonight in episode 224, we bring you part two of our Focus on Business special, bringing you expert guests who are sharing hugely important advice on how to get the best out of you and your business, whether you work alone in a team or indeed have your own team of healthcare professionals.

So very shortly, I'll be joined by Katie Bell, founder and CEO of Thrive health and wellness business coaching and also Daniel Lawrence creator of the physio channel on YouTube and European director of education for rock tape and together they'll be discussing.

Social media how much do soft tissue therapists really need it first of all I'd like to welcome people who've joined us live because if you are listening to the podcast and you like the idea of coming live and asking questions directly to our guests and that's what you have to do just come along at it on Tuesday and if you do come in then I can bring your questions or your comments or just your sharing of experience up onto our screen for example cecily his slot with yo homies that's how

we kind of roll here on the sda podcast it's that chilled and relaxed hey cecily thanks coming and nicky mansfield says oi oi all the dialects here is very inclusive um here well here we go and then we go to the other end of the spectrum we've got sir glenn murphy so that's kind of how we are very inclusive i'm glad that works so well deborah i'm not going to try and pronounce your last name because i will embarrass myself

slujimus how are you nice to see you deborah thanks a lot for joining us. Tracy Marsh is here. Louise Aisha, I'm pretty sure I've got that right tonight, is in the house. So other people are pouring through the door as we talk. So thanks very much for joining us. Lovely to see people in the new year come to join us live. It's so cool. If you can join us live, then please do it. I know some of you are working and listening to podcasts and I appreciate you listening to it.

But if you can join us live, then come along. It's a great learning experience for everyone involved. Right then. So before I bring up my guests for tonight, I have to give a huge thank you to last week's guests who were in part one of our focus on business. I had the pleasure of spending a wonderful hour with Joe Turner of mehab.co.uk and Joanne Elphinstone, director of GEMS Movement, in an episode entitled Coaching Skills for Clinicians, Secret Source or Empty Bandwagon.

Obviously not my words. I'm not such an eloquent swordsman of the English language, but they certainly are. And they have teamed up to launch a Coaching Unpeeled series of workshops this May 2025, created specifically to translate coaching concepts into clinical practice. It's a great episode available, as always, on all popular podcast apps and YouTube and the STA.co.uk. And all details and tickets for that series of courses are available in the show notes.

Right then, I think that's everything done. Just welcoming other people who have come through. Joan Marshall. Hi from Scotland. Hey, Joan. Thanks for joining us from Scotland. And yeah, we're going to crack on then. So tonight's episode, feel free to ask questions. If you have joined us in the comments, especially if it's your first time, don't worry. All I'm going to do is share your question on the screen with the 2000 viewers later on. So you don't have to worry about that.

But yeah, let's bring them up for social media. How much does soft tissue therapists really need it?

With my special guests, Katie Bell and Daniel Lawrence. Katie ben and daniel lawrence how are you doing hello thank you there we go that's that that's how we got it and you'll be able to differentiate as well um who's who from that which would be great as well thanks so much for giving out your time people really appreciate you joining us i know that you've had busy days, Thanks for having us. No, I'm really looking forward to it. And I have since Therapy Expo.

And I love these episodes which are born out of something I didn't really plan. It just happened where I was there being impressed by a number of people who were listening to your presentation about social media at Therapy Expo. And then, Daniel, you've been at Therapy Expo since before Therapy Expo started, I think. So it was great to catch up with you as always there. In fact, I think you started it. But yeah. And then suddenly this conversation came about social media.

How much do we need it? And you've got, obviously, you're like champion of YouTube with the physio channel, Daniel. And Katie, you give such valuable advice as well about how much do we really kind of need social media. So bringing you together has made my year so far. It's one of them. I'm very much looking forward to it. So before we crack on with that, I can't get it out of my head. There's an elephant in the room. And that room is a book. And Katie, the book is yours.

And congratulations. Because today, well, let me hear it from your mouth. Yeah. My listeners ears. Today, I have become a best-selling author. So I know, I can't believe it. Yes, it's on the screen. I have published a book called Thriving, and it's the simple and honest guide to growing your clinic.

So it's specifically for soft tissue therapists, physios, orthopaths, those of you who are clinic owners, business owners, who maybe feel a little bit lost in the world of growing your clinic and running your clinic. And there's so many things to think about. And so if any of you listen to my podcast already, you know that I try and lead with a lot of value and give you real actionable tips.

So this book is that. It's here. It's just everything you can possibly imagine. I'm going to talk about the clinic success tree, Matt, aren't I, as we go along? But before we can focus on marketing... And doing all of Daniel's fabulous stuff that he's going to be able to teach us and help us understand. We've got to have a good structure and foundations.

Otherwise, we can be very, very busy fools. And I'm sure lots of you feel that sometimes, that we're on a hamster wheel and we don't quite know where we're going and why we're doing it. So, yeah, this book, I would love for you all to go and grab a copy of it. It's going to really help transform your clinic and also your life.

Oh, wow. Gosh. that was i was admiring your your your analogies of a hamster wheel and a tree i want to hear a little bit more about and then you finished on that just bombshell of it's gonna yeah transform your life amazing tell me about the tree because i love i love that analogy and and i've had a look at i haven't read the actual book yet obviously i'm waiting for my signed copy but tell me about tell me about the tree would have that represent things okay so

imagine a beautiful cherry blossom tree with lots of gorgeous flowers on obviously in the uk british summer that we've got every year you know the gorgeous weather that we're used to and I want you to imagine that for most clinic owners what we feel like we do because I am also a clinic owner I'm a physio by trade so I still run a big clinic is that we we try and fix all the branches so we think we need to do more marketing and Daniel's going to talk to us about YouTube okay maybe I need

to set up a YouTube channel because that might bring me some more bookings in or maybe I need to change my clinic software and move from one to the other or get some more team or all of these kind of top level things And so we end up just kind of fixing these branches almost temporarily and having to go back and re-fix them over and over and over again. And we feel like we're just on this wheel of carnage really in your business. But a lot of us do that without a real solid trunk.

Without that strategy and that plan and those values and that vision of where this business needs to go to serve your life, because you are here to run a business that serves your life, not a life that has to fit around your business, which I know a lot of us feel like that. And then there's also all of the roots, which is how we show up as a leader, as a clinic owner, our personal performance, our mindset, our beliefs, the things that are creating what our clinic looks like today.

And we've got to address those. We've got to look at our money mindset and our confidence and our self-belief and our value to establish a great strategy and a plan so that we can then fix the branches, but we can fix them in the order that they need to be fixed in.

And that will then give you if we do that in the order sort the routes put the strategy in place fix the branches do daniel's fabulous stuff on youtube then we will get the fruits and the fruits is time energy freedom and money and that's about transforming your life great great analogy i only want to read the book now that's great no lovely yeah yeah and it's available on amazon now isn't it it's out fantastic or other places i don't want to pick

up amazon if there's something shady It is on Amazon now. We are launching in Waterstones and various other places over the next few days. So the paperback version is launched today. Kindle goes live tomorrow. And then the audio version is in two weeks time. Very exciting. Right then, people. Yeah. And I'd love the idea of having you back on the show once that's been out for a little bit and getting some feedback.

Because I know you're very active and you'll be the person who's chasing feedback more than anybody just to hear how it's helping people and that. So we'll save that for another time. Now, just so, I mean, there's no way I could make Daniel Lawrence, the Daniel Lawrence feeling significant, but just so he's not sitting there feeling shadowed by today's launch of that book, then let's just remind people with Daniel's contributions to the literary world that we live in.

So Daniel, did it all start with that? I mean, I was trying to work out when the Physio Channel started. Was it before the book, the first book came out? Yes, of course. Well, firstly, I'm more than happy to be shadowed by Katie's release. Fantastic. And congratulations again to Katie. But Matt, you've put this on the screen now, which looks a bit like I've written a book too. No, it's not that. No, it is not. I mean, I've got it up.

On the screen, you've got your own author page. It's like Daniel Lawrence about the author. I mean, it is Lee Child. Come on. It's what's happening.

But yeah, a lot of our listeners, I'm sure, and right in the comments as well, you're probably familiar with the practitioner's guide to clinical cupping exercise for pain reels i've heard podcasts regarding about that i think you're on the massage collective podcast and marie and co and then you've got the lower limb tendinopathy, so how did you start off they go back a few years don't they when you first did them, Yes, I believe The Lower Limb was published in January 2018.

And then the other two were published quite close together around about 2020 to 2022. There were some delays and changes with the books that I was publishing around that time.

Like many of your listeners i'm hugely passionate about what we do working with the human body manual therapy exercise rehabilitation and pain relief and i've been around for a wee while now so as a result of that i've been writing and you know creating videos and the physio channel and things like that and continue to do so so my my interests are are very broad in in our profession, and most recently i've been looking at you know youtube how that works and and the world of

digital marketing as well from a physiotherapy perspective so look forward to talking a bit about that this evening and hopefully answering some questions from the listeners as well amazing i just want to add because i do get hate mail and not that often but the thing which really increases the hate mail is where is where i have like two physios on the sports therapy association podcast at the same time.

It's like, I'm waiting for it to happen now. But I should point out that, like all the physios and chiros and podiatrists and allied health professionals have on the show, they're a great example, and you two are no exception, of, yes, they've got a physiotherapy qualification, certification in that. But if you look at their websites, you'll see they're so inclusive and the stuff they're talking about. I'll give you examples. For example, I think I brought some up here.

For people in YouTube, you can see this. If you listen to the podcast, then pause, pop up to YouTube, have a look at the slide, and then come back again.

But on the front of katie's website here it makes it quite clear transforming business coaching for therapists there's stuff there for chiros podiatrists it's you're a health care professional you are a therapist there's there's none of that stuff which a lot i know a lot of sports massage therapists sports therapists worry about that elitist thing yeah there's some dodgy physios who put us down out there but there's dodgy in everybody there's dodgy massage therapists as well who slag off

other people so it's but the people i have on the show they may well be physios but don't worry they're the good ones yeah they're the nice ones i know and daniel as well you look at daniel's youtube page and you'll see straight away i mean look at that how can a how can a dinosaur physio write a book on cupping come on now i mean that's our territory if anything daniel is more sports therapist or massage therapist than you guys are so i mean yeah

so let's not hate mail please don't send it in please let's relax about that so there we go right Right. Angelica says, congratulations, Katie, becoming a number one bestselling author. There we go. And Sabrina is a little bit late, but don't worry, Sabrina. I understand. You have things to do. Right. Let's crack on with tonight's episode, then, shall we? Social media. How much do soft tissue therapists really need it?

I've changed that title a few times, depending how many characters I had available. But I think people will get the idea. Katie, you, like I said, back at Therapy Expo in November, your presentation was had become fully booked without social media, which kind of suggests just to get the ball rolling, that maybe therapists use social media too much. You're sitting on that side of the fence. I'm not necessarily sitting on that side of the fence that they use it too much.

I think often therapists sit in different categories. So they sit in the. I'm using it because it's a thing that I think I should be doing because that's what everybody says we should be doing to build a business, but I'm not using it consistently. I don't really have a strategy. I just post when I have a minute between clients. I don't really know what I'm posting, why I'm posting. And I'm also not tracking any of it. So I don't really know if it's working for me or not.

So it just becomes another thing on the to-do list for people. So I think you've got that camp of people that are like doing it, but they're not really in love with it because they don't really know if it's working for them or not. And it's a time pull.

And then you've got the category that there was a lot of people at Therapy Expo that raised the hand that when I asked this question was that, you know, when you think about posting on social media and selling your soul on social media, because that's what a lot of people still feel like that they're having to do.

Maybe slightly older people like me we sometimes think oh god really do i have to do this to have to sell my soul when the younger ones think it's wonderful and fabulous there was a lot of people that said i just don't want to do it i don't want to have to do social media to get to get people in my clinic like that's not what i don't want to put my face out there i don't want to be on video so i kind of think we've we've got to almost two camps of people hating it and

people deciding that they need to get on board with it, but don't really know if they're doing it. And then maybe the third camp, which is Dan's camp, loves it, working really well for his business. And he's got a strategy and he knows how to do it because he's skilled in that area. So I maybe think it sits in kind of those three different categories for camps. Okay, great. We'll come back to that. Daniel, are you skilled at it?

Have you mastered it? Can anyone do it? Is it just a question of skills or?

Yes anyone can do it there are various ways of creating a successful youtube channel and i can speak a bit about that but i think perhaps i'd like to start by saying i i'm not massively keen on social media and i was sort of forced into it through my work with rock take and with education and with its necessity for marketing but i'm not a big fan of social media and i have to pose the argument that youtube is potentially not social media or it is very unique amongst

the other social media platforms so there's a lot of social media platforms some recent training i did there was supposedly around 100 different platforms all around the world ones we've heard of and ones in china that we may not have heard of for example so there's a lot of platforms out there youtube is unique amongst those platforms in the way it works. So some of your listeners may not know these facts, so I'll share them.

YouTube is the second biggest search engine after Google, and YouTube is owned by Google, so they're kind of the same thing. People rarely go onto Instagram or TikTok to search for a solution to a problem.

Their algorithms tend to work differently they're more how should we put it they're more newsfeed algorithms so you put something on on instagram and it pops into the newsfeed maybe people see it a very small percentage of your actual uh you know followers will actually see your posts unless you pay money to push them out and then that will disappear and it'll be forgotten about very quickly with youtube it's different.

Is if there's a health creator, you create a helpful video that can help somebody with a problem. Let's say it's a solution to persistent ankle pain, for example. That video goes into YouTube and people aren't going to suddenly jump on it. There's no reason for everybody, oh, brilliant. Dan's released a video on the ankle. Let's all watch it. Even though we've got no ankle pain, that wouldn't make sense.

But people then go to YouTube and they start to look for a solution to the problem, how to deal with ankle pain, physio exercises for ankle pain, how to take to do this how and they search and then youtube serves them up the results now the trick is to get your video to come up in those results that's where you get a view on the screen or in an impression from the impression you then need to get somebody to click on your title your thumbnail which is like a an album

cover if you will and that's when you get a click through so that's your click through rate and then you need to get people to stay with you and watch your video. And they'll do that if they feel that you're going to give them the information they want quickly and succinctly, and that this is a video that's going to help them. So if you get that impression from the first 30 seconds, then you've got effectively a view.

And then once you've got a view, the next metric to be concerned with is your retention.

And that's, of course, how long people watch your video for.

If you get a good retention rate, which means people are finding your video clicking on your video watching your video and continuing to watch your video then that signals to youtube that hey this is a good video so next time people search for this ankle solution let's put this video forward let's put this video higher up the rankings and the beauty of youtube is in five years time somebody could go on and ask that question why wouldn't they people are going to have ankle pain well into the

into the future and and maybe forever ever i don't know what ai is going to bring that means in five years time your video could be performing just as well as it did a few months after you first posted it so therefore the content is is is evergreen and therefore the creation of it is very much an investment for you and an investment for your business but there's a potential for youtube to actually be your business or to have its own energy and its own sort of business

entity because it will generate income for you after you've created enough quality content, people can keep coming back to it like a library and finding solutions to their problems. And for that reason, I see it as very different from a Twitter or X, for example, where you just jump on there and argue with somebody for a while and then go off again and jump on again and argue with somebody else about something completely different.

That doesn't seem to be helping people and it doesn't seem to be much investment there. So YouTube often gets lost and left behind because people are more excited by the more immediate Instagrams and Xs and things popping up on Facebook. But YouTube, as a marathon, as a slow game, often gets overlooked. And I would really like to show people the potential that's there for it. Very good. He's good, isn't he, Katie? He's good. He's tough, isn't he?

Very nice stuff. yeah no it's great it's it's it's why for example we started off doing this podcast on facebook and then i remember researching a bit and seeing the same thing facebook's got no shelf life and everybody who's putting things on facebook have to realize it's like holding up a bit of paper and then just letting it flow away in the wind no one's going to see it again whereas youtube owned by google comes up in the search results and

it's going to have a higher shelf life so yeah makes total sense and hopefully people in the live lounge hopefully that stimulated some discussion So don't forget to ask questions if you're not sure about that. So, yeah, Katie, you are involved in YouTube. You've got a YouTube channel. And is that going to be – I mean, obviously, this is something we've got to get to in a second. What helps you guys in your business of reaching the masses?

I mean, you're both working physios as well, and you need to get people in clinic. Do you see YouTube as part of your clinic in helping people get through the door? So if I take it from a clinical perspective, we don't and Daniel can maybe might be able to persuade me otherwise tonight we don't use YouTube our YouTube channel, we have a YouTube channel we have lots of videos on there but we don't use it as a lead to generate leads.

Now rightly or wrongly Daniel's going to be able to tell me that there's a lot of scope there and a lot of potential but, It's okay to say that it works. You know, strategies work. You've got to work the strategy until it works, but you can't just pick it up, as Daniel said, throw some videos at it, and then hope that it's going to miraculously bring you leads and bookings, I'm not bothered about your leads, but your bookings into your clinic.

I think for us, it's not a strategy that we use, but it's not to say that it's not a strategy that we could use if we were wanting to diversify how we create, you know, people being aware of our clinic. So, Dan, you can get in the red corner, as we decided before we came on the blue corner, and we can have a discussion around this.

But I think it's really, really important for any clinic owners, business owners listening to this, is that as long as we have a plan and a marketing plan, and we are tracking what's working, then we can make the right decision as to where we put our energy and our time. Because every clinic owner I get on a call with, I have the pleasure of talking to, none of them have any time.

They have no time. They're usually the lead clinician in their business, or they've got, you know, they're in a position where they've got team and they're managing team now. And not often do they have a marketing team or a marketing consultant.

They're trying to do it all themselves so I think it's really important that they decide what they love what really lights them up and Dan I know you got into it you almost forced in into into doing it and and I guess in Thrive I'm forced to do a lot of stuff that I probably wouldn't have done given the choice but it's the nature of running an online business and being very visible but particularly in your clinic you you you have to come I think with you have to like it you have to.

Have some kind of passion behind it and want to do it. Otherwise, it will just become another thing that you think you should be doing. There's only to-do list that overwhelms you, confuses you, and you then don't see the results that Dan perhaps sees when he's doing it. You know, in the same way that you wouldn't cut your own hair because you can't see the back of your head, you, I really, really think you need to, if you're going to go down a route like this, you need to ask an expert.

You know, I wasn't trained on how to use YouTube in my physio degree. I wasn't even a second of business advice. So it's about thinking who is out there that could help me to even just get me started. Dan's got a fabulous new program releasing this year that he's going to tell us about.

But investing in that will allow you to decide or to get better results, I guess, from your efforts and your energy rather than just picking at this and that and the other and trying to do it all because you don't need to do it all. I run a very big, successful clinic and I don't have a YouTube channel. It's not to say it wouldn't work. It's just not one of our lead strategies right now. So hopefully that kind of answers that question, Matt.

Oh, definitely. No, there's loads in there which we can unpick. It's perfect. It's exactly how, as I mentioned, this conversation was going to go in my mind. Brilliant. So Daniel, what I'm interested in, and it's coming out of Katie's comments on that, is how.

For somebody who wants to get because yeah let's concentrate on somebody who wants more footfall more people ringing up the clinic and booking in appointments because there's also engagement and looking after people already know you and building a trustworthy brand and i can kind of see that with youtube because it's straight away if youtube you've got 5 000 followers people are going to see i think wow this guy knows his stuff even if you paid for them it's still

what people do in order for to big yourself up and even if you're faking it till you make it but how can youtube actually you get people through the door if to book appointments yes of course well i want to try and explain something that i don't know if i'm very good at explaining so i'll try it.

Katie and matt you might edit to help me here with some analogies for example so if you create some good content that helps people that will be a lead generator for you whether you put it on you know instagram facebook youtube or of course put the video on all three why not if you then pay to promote that and you put in the right metrics so that it the right targeting so that it targets you know your local area then you know that will that will work as a lead magnet and and i

helped somebody recently with some youtube strategy and they got a video they put it up in a local facebook group and they straight away had three clients and they made around 300 pounds off this video so they didn't get that many views but they did get that many clients and and they did get that income so that idea is is is somewhat straightforward there's different levels to it but it but it's quite um it's quite take up the thing that i struggle to understand is people think that you're

putting out youtube videos to you know show your value to show your skills in the hope that you're going to have something come back from that that you're going to have to, business come back to you that people are going to book in and come to your clinic. People think that you're creating YouTube videos as a lead magnet, as a way of marketing your services, and you will make more money if people come to see you because they saw one of your video. But that's not what I'm trying to explain.

I'm suggesting that you create videos that can help people. Those videos continue to be watched and you can then get paid directly by YouTube. And that income can become, in some form, a passive form of income that you can add to your business as a separate income stream. So a lot of my videos, they're watched all around the world. India is the biggest viewership of YouTube with about near 500 million viewers. Closely followed by America, which is about 50% less than that.

It's not close to the followed at all. and then the uk my channel is about seven percent and the uk obviously makes up a smaller viewership of overall youtube videos now a long time ago my channel was able to be monetized and by the way if you want to be monetized on youtube you need a thousand subscribers and four thousand watch hours over 12 months and like if you start making good videos and get them out there you'll reach that target it's fairly easy to

achieve with some consistency you can then join youtube's partner program people pay to market on youtube you'll see the adverts that pop up during youtube videos what a lot of people don't know is that youtube will pay you 55 of the advertising revenue for those adverts so when people pay to advertise on youtube they share it with the people who created the videos whether it's you know myself or mr beast or whoever else on on youtube when you say mr beast you're referring to john

gibbons or oh no the other one sorry i'm got confused yeah yeah sorry i was thinking of her no the other one is like sorry yeah he's he's on netflix now as well he's kind of taken over taken over america by it by youtube uh he talks a lot about youtube strategy and everything but obviously his his game is is considerably different and bigger than mine and any any other health health creators but yeah they said share 55 percent of advertising revenue

and you know it's not like you have to send them a complicated form you. Just join that partnership program you have a youtube partner you go about creating your content people watch it for free they benefit from it. Youtube shares the advertising revenue with you so it's it's a separate standalone business model you don't have to put out content there hoping that you know somebody's going to travel from america or from india to you know to come to your come to your clinic.

Of course, it's also a wonderful way to do that lead generation, but it's so much bigger than that, so much broader than that, and a very different. Approach, a very different strategy, a very different business plan. And as I've said, I think a lot of people don't realize the potential that's there. In fact, we talked about physios and elitism and so on.

I think if you're some form of an elite practitioner with a PhD. That's actually going to be less helpful for you on YouTube in many senses because I've made a few videos that were for academic videos for my students using a few long medical words and i didn't really get much hate on youtube until i start talking too too medical and too you know too academic people really don't like that because it alienates them it.

Doesn't help them with their with their problem so you know being able to help people in a down-to-earth way and communicate clearly is is really one of the key skills on youtube very interesting i didn't think that was yeah i didn't know that was think that was coming so yeah you're thinking it's a wasted because a lot of therapists are complaining they have this business model and we've talked about this on the show before

where you're only making money when you've got a client in front of you and that's that doesn't go on forever you can only see so many people during the day then suddenly you burn out because you're only making money when people are there and we've talked about this on the show before with the idea of looking after people via apps and things and making money whilst you're not seeing somebody which is great it's all very ethical and you help that person even more because that

person needs help when they're not with you as well as when they're on the couch sort of thing but you're saying that this is a undervalued and not nearly enough used form of income for the therapist who's got the knowledge they've just got to show people it and and and make a an income from it that way which kind of suggests that is that right yeah is that what you're saying yeah absolutely you get your income directly from youtube you don't

have to attract people to your business you don't have to sell anything.

Youtube does the selling for you it sells the marketing nothing connected to you and then the marketing around your videos they share that revenue with you that that revenue you know can be significant after after a few years of putting in the work but there's there's more to it than that i don't want people to think that like it is a way of generating passive income and it is a way of you know of making money when you're not working. Absolutely. It's definitely that.

But it's also another way of reaching more people and helping more people. I don't know how people felt during the lockdown times, but as a physio, I felt very frustrated because I was not able to help people. I knew they needed help. I even had, when I was doing NHS work, because they couldn't get the help. So it was a way of getting the information out there and helping people all around the world, because a lot of people don't have access to healthcare.

Even in this country, a lot of people don't have timely, decent access to healthcare. And that's, of course, why the private sector is booming. But of course, some people can't afford that.

And in some countries, it's not impossible to get decent healthcare advice you can create that advice and put it out there for whoever needs it and the more people that benefit from it the more you know you'll benefit from it financially but then that means you've got more time to invest in in creating more content as you move forward so there is a you know that there is a health care element to it there's a sort of altruistic helping people element to it and that that's one

of the really nice things about creating in that place.

Katie keen to hear your thoughts okay so my thoughts are I think that was a fabulous explanation Dan you did a great job of explaining it and I think what our clinical owners need to kind of I guess hear from this is that if you were thinking about my book this is a two separate clinic success trees almost it's like we could have them linked in some way but this is a you have your clinic, Matt, you just said, you know, you might be seeing patients,

treating them on the couch, doing the day-to-day, but you're feeling like there's going to be an end to this, or I can only earn when I've got somebody in front of me. Now, obviously you've got opportunity to grow your clinic. You've got opportunities to bring team in and different ways of diversifying your income. But for somebody who perhaps is thinking, actually, this for me could be.

Something that I would really love to do I'm really passionate about I've got a lot of advice to give and I maybe Dan I guess want to hear your comments here do they need to love being on video because a lot of people don't and that gets in people's way a lot that that will be the one of the biggest barriers that they don't you know imposter syndrome that they don't feel like they know enough and and they do you know we've got amazing clinicians out there so this sits

in almost its own business model and its own strategy that needs to supplement your own clinic. But I would always advise if I've got a clinic owner saying, I want to go into this, I'd like to make sure that their bread and butter and the thing that is providing them with their income right now is as solid as it possibly can be, because there's an element of you're going to have to put time into this other strategy.

And we might be in a position where you have to reduce your income if you're the main fee earner to allow yourself to go and run with this idea so it's it's again it's. Knowing that this is a way of diversifying your income, Dan, I think is really amazing because it's an overlooked way of doing it with clinicians who already have got the knowledge, they've got the skills. It's just about them being more visible and then being paid for being more visible.

But I think, again, I know I'm just sounding like I'm saying the same thing here, but they need to be strategic about it. If you're going to take this idea, you have to come up with a business plan. You have to decide what that's going to look like. You have to think about what your vision is going to be, who you want to serve. I would say that you can't just be everything to everybody. But Dan, please correct me if I'm wrong in terms of YouTube.

You know, I'm very much if you everything to everybody, nothing to nobody. Is that the same on YouTube when you're trying to present advice or, you know, knowledge or recommendations? Would you pick an ideal client? Would you focus on an area, you know, whether that's women's health or musculoskeletal? Can you do that? Or would you advise, Dan, that they could put anything out there because anybody could see it? Yes, yes. Okay, great, Katie.

So where do I start? Well, one of the things for my YouTube journey that I found really helpful and still is really helpful is the professional development and CPD. I hope that the Physio Society one day asks me for the CPD review because I will just simply send them the link to my channel because it's all there ready to go. That's what it was is all about in the long run. Whenever you create a video on a topic, you have to research that topic and.

I spent some time with some GPs at Health Creator Summit at YouTube HQ in London. There was other health creators there as well, working in dietetics and clinical psychology and so on. And they said to the GPs in particular that when they do a video on a topic for their patients, they research that before they actually present the video.

Even though they know what they're talking about, they just want to make sure that they are absolutely certain and that there's no extra bits of information that they could also present in the video. So when I'm presenting a video, before I'm presenting it, I am researching, I am learning, and I am preparing. So it's a wonderful way of continually working on your own CPD because you're constantly studying in order to then put that into a video.

And all of the time it takes to record it and edit it, that's a revision. And then it's there packaged up in a video so that You can refer back to it at any point in the future if you want to remember that test or that treatment technique that you looked at 12 months ago. It's there in a short video, and you can find that bit and look at the test that you want to remember. So I found that wonderfully helpful.

I've forgotten very little since I started because I've literally recorded it all into the YouTube channel videos. Then your question about specializing or niching. A lot of general YouTube experts or consultants would talk about having a niche and focusing on something. And I do agree with that to an extent. I remember watching during the lockdowns, and we were all watching too much YouTube, there was a guy who started a channel about, you'll like this one, Matt, about cars and running.

He started a channel about cars and running, and then he just started talking about, you know, COVID research. And his channel then became about him reading COVID research, which was he got quite a lot of views and picked up quite a lot of subscribers. But it was all rather random and obviously didn't really make sense. From a physical therapy or sports therapy point of view, I think you've probably, you know, people have already got their niche.

You wouldn't want to put on your your niece's birthday party video onto your onto your channel that's giving people advice on stretching i think that's what a lot of experts would say is you know not niching and rather rather random but also i think it's important to have one a bit of experimentation so you try different videos look at different topics see what you enjoy what you get on well with but then also see what gets picked up well by the algorithm like basically what

people are searching for and you may then find some pockets where people want more information or want to know more about certain things and it's also it's like it's your channel and it's creative so it's absolutely fine to to try new things and to experiment and you know to push yourself and to push your own professional development as well and i'm still doing that on my channel i i'm avoiding niching down too much because i'm interested in so much that it

would not be such a good experience for me if i was to just focus on tendons for example um i would soon run out of steam for that so i'm always looking at and exploring new areas to you know to create videos so i don't get too stayed or too focused on one particular thing um. Did that answer your question, Katie? Yeah, yeah.

And I think that's, I guess I'm coming at it from like this marketing head, which is, you know, you've got to specialise, you've got a niche, you've got to talk to somebody. But I hear what you're saying, Dan, about you've also got to not fall out of love with it. And you've got to, I guess you're going to be interested in the topics that you're talking about because you've got to do a lot of research,

which I totally didn't think about. I would have, typical me, I'd have just thought, oh, I'll just grab my camera and just start filming something about something that I think I know a little bit about. And I think it's great that you said it does take that preparation work and really making sure that I think one of the things that hold clinic owners or, you know, soft tissue therapists back is imposter syndrome.

It shouts really loudly for a lot of us and and we are the fear of being called out by somebody who we shall not name on on this platform that tells us we're we're saying the wrong thing or we you know promoted something that's that's not research-based or evidence-based i think that that stops people in the tracks dan would you agree yes people are concerned about imposter syndrome people are concerned about getting hate messages come through i've based on the views i've I've had literally

a handful of hate messages and I don't know where they come from. I do hope whenever I meet these people, perhaps it's my neighbour. So if you create a video that's saying you create one on how to manage shoulder pain and the videos stay five minutes long and you're going to talk about what could cause shoulder pain and some simple exercises and movements to help reduce shoulder pain.

If somebody is the sort of person that's going to be a troll and send you hate mail, they're not going to sit there and watch your video for five minutes. You know, they're not going to invest that much time in watching your video and then send you like hateful messages. is that those two things just don't correlate. So I think people need to worry less about that.

People will give you feedback, which could be helpful. I've had some videos that I put a lot of time into, and people will just write to me and go, stop talking and get on with it. And it's like, okay, perhaps next time I'll try and talk a bit less and get on with it.

So people do give you this feedback, which can be semi-constructive and can be can be helpful but these are the things that i've learned and that i go through you know when i help people when i do when i'll do my training with people is to let them know how to create a video because like you say katie you can't really just put a camera in front of yourself and start talking about something that you know you can and that could be good practice for you but

that's not the best way to go about creating a youtube video for one reason it can be a bit stressful as well because you're suddenly there thinking What were they going to say? Oh, I shouldn't have said that. So if you plan and have some form of script for your videos, then it makes it a lot less stressful for you to fill. And if it's less stressful to film, it's therefore easier to edit and just makes the whole experience much nicer for you as well.

Right. I've got a question. So I'm going to jump in there because somehow it's already 10 to 9. It's kind of it's all involved in this and it pulls in the other. I like the way you separate YouTube from the other kind of from social media because there are definitely differences.

But what about I think also we should mention in terms of engagement, in terms of looking after people who you've already made contact with, maybe even retention and for your followers spreading your good word and sharing stuff.

Is that where something like, I mean, I'm not a fan of Facebook, but I think for engagement and groups and looking after people who already you've got them through the door for looking after and keeping them, then that's where Facebook maybe could shine more than YouTube because it is more of a personal thing. You can make private groups and things.

Is that something where YouTube maybe doesn't quite serve as well and we have to kind of pick what our goal is to what type of social media we're going to use?

Yes yeah i think you can definitely transfer people across from youtube to to group settings such as facebook groups for example so on youtube you've got the the kind of main videos that everybody knows you've got youtube shorts which have come out now which are just obviously shorter videos or they have made them longer in a different format you've got the youtube community where you can post pictures and you know polls or questions and that sort of thing but that

still doesn't quite worked like a like a facebook community community group would yeah transferring people across from one platform to the other it's interesting because that i've got you know a good amount of subscribers out 85 or 86 000 getting to 100 000 soon but only like less than 10 of my viewers are actual subscribers so a lot of people aren't actually subscribing to the.

The community people comment on a video and there's a community that will build based on a video because people say well i had this and i took this and then this happened and someone else will say well i went to see the doctor and he said this and blah blah blah they have that they have their own independent conversation off the back of the video so that happens and that's that's definitely a form of community a lot of the videos get shared on whatsapp groups as well i don't

know where but i can just tell from my own metrics that they get shared on whatsapp groups so that's that's very interesting i can't imagine you know how many of these groups and people are sharing the videos, so yeah it's and the other thing i was going to say is when i create a new video it's not going to be immediately interesting to my subscribers because they may not have the problem that i'm doing the video about people tend to come to oh

i'll go to the physio channel i know lots of therapists hopefully viewers tonight use the channel i'll go and look up that test or i'll quickly look at some things i can share with my how to explain pain to patients for example that they can share with their with their clients so there's that form of community where it's where. But yeah, linking up with other platforms might absolutely make sense.

I just noticed in the questions that Nikki asked the question about, have you got control of the adverts that YouTube puts around your video? Quick answer to that is, as unfortunately, no, you don't. YouTube should have some form of quality control, but you don't have a control of which adverts work around your videos, unfortunately, which can sometimes be a problem for some people. I've never experienced it as a problem. Thank you.

Great. Good question, Nicky. Katie, we've talked quite extensively about how you can use YouTube, how you can use Facebook, and I'm sure there's arguments for using Instagram as well for the visual people. Is there an overarching kind of danger? I think you've already alluded to this, but as part of the trunk you discuss of the tree, things like going down to your local running club, handing out leaflets, getting to know the people in your community rather than digitally face-to-face stuff.

That can all there's a danger that being eclipsed isn't there by you whilst you're on your phone recording videos and speaking to people and that is that is that a big danger in your experience of speaking with therapists they're forgetting about this real life contact yeah it that really really great observation that and i guess question one of the biggest challenges that or when i talk about their marketing strategy on a discovery

call i'm trying to learn about their business and why they may be struggling to get people through the door or what's going on for them, I talk about their offline marketing strategy and it's usually nothing. You know, I have my clinic, I have a sign outside and kind of that's all I've done.

And because quite rightly, Google, Google ads, very effective in a lot of people's clinics, you know, perhaps using YouTube might be something people are going to move towards. Maybe posting on Facebook and Instagram. I don't honestly believe, I don't think I've ever met a clinic owner that is using that in a way that is bringing them very. Consistent lead generation and bookings into their clinic. So we've kind of gone mad in the digital world, which is great.

And a lot of it is working for people. But I had a situation, I was away last year, this is in my clinic, and my website went down for three days, which meant my Google Ads budget that was being spent, which is fairly significant in a month, there was nowhere for people to land and go to, and it was a complete disaster.

Now, had we not had an offline marketing strategy that could have been had a devastating effect on our clinic because we could have had all of our eggs in one basket so I think for clinic owners it's really important that they have a variety like a multi-layered visibility strategy really they've got different things working for them I call it like turning the taps on and off whenever you need things but you are you are a bricks and in the

main a bricks and mortar clinic that exists within a community and your job is to create community within that community that that needs you and would be devastated if they turned up at your clinic and there was a sign that said unfortunately they're no longer trading like I say to my team all the time we have to make sure that if if we close tomorrow we we would leave a massive hole in people's diaries.

And in people's lives, because we have a community, we've created a community that exists within a community. So I think there's so much value in collaborating with local businesses, with finding out where your people are. You know, we have a women's health team within my clinic, and we work very specifically with people who've had babies. So where are those people hanging out in Sheffield? Where are the new mums? What groups are they going to?

You know, what coffee shops are they at? where are the kids clubs and baby massage and all of those sorts of things, because we can create amazing connections with people there and help each other in business. And people buy from people that, you know, and they buy from a brand that they trust. And so recommendations and referrals are really important and shouldn't be forgotten in a clinic.

So I think never underestimate the power of offline marketing and and and use it as much as you're using your digital stuff as well because i think cutting one or choosing one or the other is is dangerous it doesn't create a really resilient business i think that's a really good pair of words for people to think about and reflect offline marketing because like you say people are so excited online and you're trying to attract local mums to come to your whatever it

is and you haven't even been down the local a coffee shop where they all hang out every day at 11 o'clock talking about where can we go to get advice on this and it's like yeah and and you don't have to it's not about like you know dan said this is about creating value this is about helping more people and when you're in your clinic room and you're having a one-on-one conversation you're helping one person if you go we went to a golf club years ago in my clinic

and i thought what is the one thing that golfers just want to do they just want to play golf all year round if there's any golf assistant to this You'll understand. They just want to be able to play golf. So we did a workshop, which was how to play golf until you were 100. And it was a free workshop. We had absolutely loads of the golf members sign up to it. It was a local golf club to our clinic.

And we delivered high in value. We led with value, but we gave very specific outcomes for the reason that they would want to come to this workshop. So we got people through the door.

We delivered in value, but then we gave a very clear call to action.

And that's really important that you can deliver value, but you still need to have a, this is what we need the workshop to do for us to make it worthwhile our time so giving people that call to action of what they do next how they can work with you moving forwards is really really important so it comes back to your strategy you plan what what we're doing this for why we're doing it what outcome do we need from it and then track it did it work did it not work am I going to do it again.

You know Dan said that you've got to like almost create and and try and experiment things some things will fly we did a wi talk which was phenomenal for bringing ladies into our classes, we've been to other places just didn't really land and yeah okay that's fine you know not everything is going to be able to successful but but put yourself out there that's so cool that do you want to play golf to your hundred because that's what it's all about isn't it

finding the language that your target audience use using that language i'm terrible at that because if i write something or do a webinar for runners i can't use their language because i'm too critical and it's like how can i never get achilles tendon pain again and i'm like well you can't guarantee that you can't prevent injury it's bound to happen and that's not what they want to hear they just want a webinar on how to never have achilles tendon pain again but i can't do that it

just destroys every single nerve kind of nuanced connection to my body and i just lie awake at night going i can't possibly put that as a title but i think that's such an important part of strategy and you need i'm gonna have to round this up it's such a shame we'll have to continue this somehow but hopefully strategy is the word whether you're looking at the ground roots and and the trunk and all that or whether you're looking at how to launch a youtube channel to find an extra way of

making monetary gains and stuff and it's it's all.

Strategy isn't it and getting help and not thinking you could do it yourself i think cecily here summed it up in a wonderful cecily way which she has a habit of doing having done a few facebook videos i've never prepared enough it's shown so cheers the insight winging it doesn't always work it's kind of true isn't it there's a certain attraction to that in the right place at the right time but yeah it's not a good strategy there's that word again so talking

of strategies then in fact angelica i think this is a good leading question here to start bringing things to a close how would i work out the best strategy for my clinic yeah so yeah they talk to someone like yourself and they get help is it going to cost them much is it like oh another expense or is it justified expense or Or what would you answer? Your strategy has to be based on where you want to be.

Like, Angelica, what do you want this business to do for you in the next one year, three years, five years, and maybe 10 years if you can stretch your vision that long? And ultimately, we work backwards from that and we reverse engineer it. So it doesn't have to cost you a load of money. You can reach out and you can listen to my podcast. You can read the book because there's loads of stuff about how you can figure out what am I doing this for? But it comes back to why.

Why are we running this business? Dan has a real reason why he's creating a YouTube channel and wants it to get to 100,000 followers.

It's not just because he fancies it. It's because it's going to enable him to be able to do other things in his life and in his business, that there is a plan for it. So it's figuring out, Angelica, why are you doing what you do and what you need this business to create for you? And we reverse engineer then what we need to do in your business to get to that. Definitely. I mean, we've said it time and time again on the course,

just reaching out and having a chat with a professional. It's not a skill. It's not something you're going to think of one day and go, I know what I need to do. this is going to be my strategy you need a specialist like katie and other people on the show to actually go to listen to you and then just feed you a few little what about this or what would you do here and then suddenly it's so overlooked i think mentorship and stuff like that.

So yeah you mentioned the podcast case that's great that people couldn't find a load of interesting some useful stuff there and also the book and then have you got courses and things don't worry daniel i've forgotten about you coming back to you don't worry yeah is there courses and things on the website or people can look at it involved in yeah so we have so the the best place first two places read the book and listen to the podcast there is absolutely loads and over 100 episodes of

great content on that it will really help get you started if you like what you're hearing if you want to know more we have a program launching in march called the evolve program and that's for clinic um soft tissue therapists that may be on their own don't have a big team or maybe just one other and they want to take their business to the next level but they just they don't know like Angelica said I don't know what to do how to do it where to start and so

we're going to guide them through a 12-week program where they're going to get to work with us intensively but over a short period of time to create basically more income more profit more time in their business and in their life so there's absolutely loads of places to start we have programs that we work with clinic owners on but we only advise those when you're ready for those so the first place to start is the podcast and the book.

And thank you for saying it's helpful. Nikki Mansford has said in her Coventry accent, I recommend Katie's podcast, Angelica, chock full of stuff to help you develop your strategies. And that's really nice hearing from professionals like yourselves. It really helps use and exhaust the free resources out there. Find someone you get on with because you're finding a mentor or someone who's going to give you advice.

You've got to, there's a certain chemistry there that needs to happen if you're going to kind of unpeel the layers together. So the podcast is Treat Your Business, by the way. And I've just put up the Spotify one in there, but obviously it's available in all different platforms. Fantastic. Right. So there we go. Daniel, over to you. Now, we could have you haven't done justice to either of you tonight. I'm so sorry. I'm never going to try and put two such gurus together on the same screen again.

I'm feeling very foolish. But Daniel, you are launching and helping people get the best out of what they find some inner talents and launch YouTube channels. When's that starting and happening and how can people find out about it? Yes. So thanks, Matt. In the next few months, I'll be launching a free training to show people how to create.

YouTube channel and get their first video online and then off the back of that I'll be taking a small group of people probably 10 or less through a more intensive training program with some close closely guided mentorship and a bit of hand holding to show people what you need to do to create high quality health creator videos and use those to create a YouTube channel based on the strategy that we talked about this evening to create a separate business entity so yeah if

people are interested please contact me through social media to let me know and i can add you to the list because as i say there'll be 10 or less in the first cohort it'll be a very intensive program so if people are interested please reach out and contact me at the physio channel on the various social media platforms and i'll add your details to the short list thanks man i think that That'll be a great opportunity.

And I know through some of the people in the room tonight, the people in the room tonight, by the way, I should have said before, and they don't reflect our audience, the 2000 downloads.

These are the creme de la creme. These are the people who give up every Tuesday evening to tune in. They've researched you thoroughly before coming up here, just so they don't get caught off their guard. But they're the sort of people who probably, and I'm speaking, because I can see the names in there, they've probably got a lot of their foundations and their trunk, and even the early saplings of branches sorted.

So this is where potentially, I bet they're knackered, and they're feeling like, how else can I make some money? So that's something definitely they might have the confidence they need to branch out of school, isn't it? To branch out to YouTube, which is where someone like Daniel with your experience can really help. So I'm excited to track that, people. If anybody here does get involved, then make sure we know and maybe we'll get

you back with Daniel to hear what you learned and have some feedback. That would be exciting. And I do need to have both of you back on the show at some point, just independently to talk about both of those projects and everything you do, because it would be so, so useful. there's so much more than what we've managed to do tonight but c'est la vie time once again,

Beats us. But anyway, if people want to keep in contact with you, we've already said the websites, make sure that you go to thrive-businesscoaching.com for Katie Bell. Loads of links there and blogs and links to the podcast and everything. And then on YouTube, make sure you go to the physio channel. And there's also Facebook. I think you're both active on as well for people to have a look. There's Thrive Biz Coaching with a B-I-Z.

That's on Facebook for Katie. And then there's the physio channel public page which is very mysterious makes me believe that there is a private page as well which is good i like what you've done there clever if you want to go to the public page then yeah the physio channel public page and find out details on that great right we've reached the end thank you everyone who joined us live very kind sir glenn murphy mb says thanks all very enjoyable.

Deborah apologies for not getting to your questions deborah raised a really important point which we should have got to but i don't want to keep you for now about disclaimers and things maybe we'll pick that up at a later date if you're going to put material on youtube and you're people listening to you how do you what disclaimers you have to put in place but we'll leave that as a hook when i persuade you daniel to come on by yourself sometimes daniel's just gone there i'm sorry daniel but

yeah we'll get you back for that good question deborah and do you need insurance if you're putting out these videos or something what happens if someone does take your advice, and then something happens and it was because of that so there's lots of considerations and great questions deborah thank you for that sabrina says thank you katie daniel tracy marsh Thank you very much. Nikki, fab episode. Brilliant. A lot of love in the house for you both. So thank you very much.

We will be back on Thursday, just to let you know, people, particularly if you'd like to come along, podcast listeners, then we'll be back on January the 21st, Tuesday, January 21st. We're going to be doing our Focus on Business Part 3, which is going to be called Business Strategy and Mindset, Collaboration Over Competition. Again, great words and a great alliteration as well. with Andy Hosgood of Unlock and Andy Thomas of Physique.

I always pronounce that one. So yeah, if you're listening to the podcast and you want to come along and join us live, then that's where we'll be next Tuesday at eight o'clock on either YouTube or Facebook. But if you just want to listen to this podcast, that's fine as well. It's your prerogative, but just do please pay us by leaving a rating and a review. So all it leaves for me to do tonight is say thank you once again to Katie Bell. Thank you so much, Katie, for giving up your time. Thank you.

Thanks for everybody for your comments and questions.

And Daniel Lawrence as well. thank you for giving yourself your time danny really nice to be able to get some time with you at last yeah thank you everyone for listening to to us and thank you matt for the invitation no i really appreciate it right thanks everybody look after each other and hopefully we will see some of you joining us live next tuesday for the third part of our focus on business on the sports therapy association podcast take care bye. Music.