Ep240 'Evidence Informed Pilates' - Reflection with Chareeya Kaewsawang, The Wee Physio

Music. People. How are you doing? Welcome to episode 240 of the Sports Therapy Association podcast.

My name is Matt Phillips, creator of runchatlive.com. And as always, this episode is being recorded live at eight o'clock on a Tuesday on the Sports Therapy Association YouTube channel. So we've reached the sixth episode now of our new reflection series on the Sports Therapy Association podcast, in which I invite a listener of the podcast onto the show to chat with me about a past episode of the STA podcast that particularly affected their daily practice as a soft tissue therapist.

Last week, my guests, massage and movement therapist Stevie Barr of Fit Through Life and Tristan Attenborough of Move Massage Pro, reflected on episode 74 of the Sports Therapy Association podcast, which was entitled Massage 2021, The Year of Change, recorded back in October 2021 with guests Anna-Marie Matsieri and Matt Skarsberg of the Massage Collective. So I must give great thanks to Stevie Barr and Trish Attenborough for providing some really great, fantastic reflection on the industry.

And they really did highlight in great ways how we have evolved as an industry in some ways, but also kind of suggested there's still a lot of change that needs to happen in order for massage and soft tissue therapy to sit well within modern healthcare. So that episode is available as always on all popular podcast apps and also YouTube if you want to watch the video. Right, speaking of change, have you seen the recent announcement across social media?

The STA, in collaboration with the ST School and Hands-On Hub, are bringing a brand new style of CPD conference designed to kickstart the future of healthcare education. Really excited to be involved in this. And the inaugural event is going to be happening in Exmouth this September, given that it's the STA Southwest Conference this time, on September the 20th and 21st, which I'm thrilled to say is a Saturday and a Sunday, which I'm sure you'll be pleased to hear.

And there's also going to be a social on the Saturday night. So it's going to be amazing. And I will be the master of ceremonies across the two days. So I'm really looking forward to seeing many of you there. It is, the idea is a regional event. So don't worry if you're not in the southwest of the UK, plans are to hold this new type of conference all around the country so that you no longer need to travel miles to get that all-important CPD in.

The STA is still going to have a stand at Therapy Expo in November this year. So if you're going to Therapy Expo in November, then do come and say hi. But we will no longer be putting on the STA theatre, just as the ST school will no longer be running their hands on Hub, because instead, we're collaborating to bring the CPD to your part of the country during the year. And it starts this September the 20th and 21st in Exmouth.

Details of speakers presentations workshops and the unique focus on networking which we're very proud of will be released over the next few days so do be sure to follow at uk underscore sta and at the st school on social media for details and as always if you've got any questions at all feel free to email me matt at the sta.co.uk right then back to tonight's show episode 240 what are we were reflecting about?

Well, in a nutshell, Pilates. Back in October 2021, in episode 73 of the Sports Therapy Association podcast, I was joined by special guest, Raphael Bender of Breathe Education and the Pilates Elephants podcast for an episode entitled Evidence-Informed Pilates. It was a hugely popular episode, still available on YouTube and all popular podcast apps.

So here tonight, three years later, to reflect on that episode is Sharia Keusawang, we'll check out my pronunciations in a second, also known as the wee physio.

So without any further ado, let's bring up Sharia. Music.

Good how are you i'm okay you can give my pronunciation now mark out of 10 totally up to you i don't want to sway you 10 out of 10 definitely check that out thank you well done well done we do like making an effort here so really nice to see you again and an extra doubly nice because you're setting a new record tonight because you are actually joining us i didn't realize until a few moments ago at what time is it is actually 2 a.m in the morning in thailand,

i love it we could now say we've had a guest join us at two in the morning you're setting a new record that's brilliant thank you so much don't don't worry everybody i already have siesta so why are we now that's a good power nap that's so kind of you i really didn't realize when you offered to to be on the show reflecting on that episode i thought you were still in glasgow i didn't realize that you were you were up for joining me at two o'clock in the morning So yeah, double thank you.

And also thank you for having me as well. I'm really excited to be on this show as well. Thank you. No, I'm really thrilled to see you again because you were with us back in December last year. And for people who are listeners aren't aware, in episode 221, you were here as part of a panel of clinicians reflecting on Therapy Expo 2024 at the NEC Birmingham. And it was a great episode. I mean, everything you and the other panel gave.

And in fact, that episode was one of the few episodes which made me take on this kind of reflecting series of podcast we're doing now because people just love hearing from clinicians themselves so you are responsible for like everything we're doing now so thank you for that yeah you're very welcome thank you so much as well it's kind of like i'm so sorry i might haven't speak english like for a while and listen to english as well because obviously i'm in thailand and yeah i'm

just a little bit panicked here i'm just a little a bit panic here don't worry there's no problem do you're doing absolutely great right so people have joined us live just a quick shout out for you we love people who join us live guy benson founder the stas in the house who was actually here back in episode 71 that we're talking about i had a look at the people who are joining us which was like over yeah three years ago in episode 73 sorry so so in three

his flop has joined us as well hey cecily thank you very much nikki mansfield is here as well who says here we go here we go here we go wonderful sort of crowd we've got in here uh sir glenn murphy is here saying hello to fellow sports therapist sarah jones who is also back with us for the original episode with rath has joined us again so we've got some long-standing people coming here louise asher is here that's probably the first time i've said her surname correctly stevie bar is stepped

in as well thank you very much coming in from last week stevie is here as well. Yeah, thanks, Stevie. Charlie Patrick, thanks for joining us, Charlie. And Nikki Mansfield, who says, oof, you wouldn't get that kind of commitment from me, Matt. What, two in the morning? Two in the morning. I don't think many people would do two in the morning. Right, so thanks, people, joining us live.

Really appreciate it. And do feel free, as always, to ask us questions, because it's a great topic tonight, Pilates. So maybe we should start then, if it's okay, with you, Sharia.

Yeah, tell us a little bit about your background, particularly about your And also why out of all 235 episodes, you decided to choose this particular episode? So, right. Obviously, I'm a physio, physiotherapist and also a Pilates instructor. I got qualified as a Pilates last year. So Pilates also are new things for me as well. Besides being a physio, I've been a physio for like six, seven years after I graduate.

So um so my question is like why i'm in thailand in uk so basically i graduated as a bachelor physiotherapy in thailand okay and then i got i got a chance to do a master degree in glasgow universities in sports and exercise medicines and then once i graduate and also i have a chance or opportunity to work in in the uk as a cazil and pilates an area that i'll start to want to explore most whereas i work a lot with elderly peoples and i want what what i thought at times is i

want to have more um weapons as exercises in my library and i think pilates also you know a good start points for help people start to move as well in different way and yeah that's where my pilates journey starts and probably just right now until right now is probably a year so my experience or you know area about Pilates is maybe not that long but the reason I started to pick I mean I'm.

I decided to pick this episode, which is 73, is when I listen to it, I feel like it sparked the idea that I have or the questions I have in the past. And I started to digging in more into like, okay, what are things, what are questions? And it actually a really amazing episode from Raphael's as well.

So the reason that why I picked this up, I'm going to go over like each point why this is, help me to share my thoughts about what I'm going to do and what I can help people's, how could I help my clients in the future as well.

Fantastic. Great to hear. And it's really interesting because, I mean, Rafa spent a lot of the episode kind of bringing up a lot of the misinformation and myths which exist around Pilates. And he kind of said that 10 years ago, if he'd started saying the things he was saying, then he would have been crucified. But he kind of feels that now therapists are a little bit more open to hearing the kind of ways which we need to tweak some of the mechanisms of action, that sort of stuff.

But I'm interested, when you listened to that episode, so you hadn't done Pilates for that long? Yes, my experience was a year. Did you find that what you'd been taught on what was, in theory, a fairly modern course. Had a lot of those kind of misconceptions in there? Are you surprised by some of the things you said? So I would say my course that I did is definitely say, like, drawing your belly button toward the spines, tuck your tummy in.

It's more focused definitely on core activation and also more. You know, most of the physio have to read Paul Hodges' paper definitely about the, you know, activation of TRAs and everything. And also, once I graduate, when I've done the courses and I listen to his episode, it actually, okay, right, do we need this? Because actually, there are loads of core exercises and core activation is different. So, of course, strengthening exercises from my point of view,

it can be anything. It doesn't have to be muscle, one muscle isolator's contractions. So, it's actually give me more of an idea and I also have the questions why I'm learning it, but I never ask. But when I started to bring it, and then I have an idea, and it was just like, right, okay, kind of like start to have questions when I put it to practice. So that's an interesting thing. So I'm just going to check then. So did you say that as a physio, you'd studied the Paul Hodges paper.

With that, we're talking about the 1996 paper. Yes, that one. Which is basically talking about inefficient muscular stabilization of the lumbar spine associated with lower back pain. where him and Carolyn Richardson, whose name we should also mention. I like saying Carolyn Richardson because I just think it's an example of kind of the patriarchy. We all know it's the Hodges paper, but in fact, the second author is a woman, but she doesn't get a mention.

I'm going to say it's the Paul Hodges and Carolyn Richardson paper. No, it's not. I wasn't having a go at you. I just think it just happens in society. It just gets dropped. But yeah, so people who aren't aware, I just want to... Details of that study was and what they suggested? To be honest, I didn't go deep down that much. So what I normally want to say is this is the idea that I've been taught when I was a student in a bachelor in physio on my third and fourth years.

So actually, we actually have in Thailand, I learned as a physio in Thailand.

So that is already a tale about core activations because that idea is very big and also I'm not sure what happened in the UK but it's quite big and also in Thailand so there's I'm the person who also treat people by when they come to see come to see me with back pains I was just like okay let's try some like core stability exercises okay and also that's persons as well in the past so I use that too and I start to see no it doesn't work that much we don't see any progress regarding to

like working on these exercises so how how we should do and then once the research came out more is that actually it doesn't you know do the core stabilities exercises doesn't you know provide significance comparing to general exercises so what you mean i was like okay we just need to go by the research still let the lizard guide.

Us in the future and you know open for the change because i'm also the person who spent 15 minutes in sessions when once I graduate or undergrads teaching people core activation feel your tummies like that as well and I feel like I also I mean what I will say is I Raphael episodes he tried to talk about the era of Pilates since like Joseph and I think Romana and then Frank and then when the turning point has come to where um podges published the papers so same

with me i as also you can see what gonna you know the the journeys of pilates as well.

Same as my journey i also you know learned along with them i think this is also right to my clients to my patient and i think okay this is good i'm gonna help them and then once the time passed by okay the lizard guy has a different way so that why i'm quite interested when it the topic is like evidence-informed pilates, because it actually kind of like hooked me at the first like hit me home because it's like i mean i've strived

to bait my pilates teachings on both science and experience and i want to you know like try to help my clients as much as i could so yeah that's pretty much an idea that kind of like why did why i shoot this topics sorry for the long answer no no it's interesting to hear your experience and it's really interesting to hear that. I wonder how worldwide this is, but the Pilates course you were taught was still talking about co-activation, even though we, science has kind of moved on.

I was just going to say before people, I mean, if anyone's listening here who's still doing co-activation exercises, first of all, don't go away. Don't get too scared. We're not going to throw everything out at all.

All we're talking about is giving you an idea that all of that co-activation stuff, and i used to do it in 2000 i'd have people doing kind of core activation exercises before they did the strength exercises even rugby players and american football football players everyone was doing it people doing squats and footballs and bench press on footballs it was all about based on this research um where basically he was with a bunch of students and they

noticed with kind of looking at muscle activation that people with lower back pain his students just a bunch of students. When they moved their shoulder, the ones without lower back pain, they had a contraction of the transverse abdominus and the multifudus before the deltoid. But then those who didn't have back pain, I'm sorry, those who did have back pain, it didn't happen. They didn't see this pre-contraction. So they kind of suggested that maybe that this could be linked with back pain.

Later on in about 2006 or something they realized that this was all not correct that it's nothing to do with it but by then of course pilates had grabbed onto that called themselves contemporary pilates which was a bit strange as well and it stayed that way so it just amazes me that you were still taught that a year ago yeah so as i it's also on our workbook a little bit But the thing is, they also mentioned about transversal abdominis as well, but they're not going

to highlight to say that, okay, to do this, tuck your tummy in. Some words they still use as a cue as well, but they're not going to, you know, point out that, okay, right, you need to do this first. Preactivation TRAs always, they're not saying that, okay? But the conception is still there, okay? Because there is a page that explains about this. So I could say that's the core stability concept is a thing that I get taught when I study.

And did you say you were taught that during physio study as well? No. Oh, yes. Right. So back in when I was a physio student on my third and fourth year, this also bring it to be, there are some one lectures as well to talk about the core stability exercises. So we actually like, okay, lies on your back, bend your knees, bend your hip, place your hands on the hip bones, and then draw your belly button into other spine, working on the breathings.

I was told that when I was a physio student, that's a fact. I was just asking the audience how many of them have or maybe still do that with clients as in getting defined neutral pelvis, which is supposed to be the ideal place halfway in the middle, because that kind of links in very much with it. The idea of a perfect symmetry and posture is very much linked to that paper.

And since then, that's been proved. So I just want to know whether people in the audience used to do it, because this must be quite scary. If there's a Pilates instructor listening to this and they're doing, I don't know, three classes a day, five days a week, if they're teaching this stuff, their first reaction is going to be, what are you saying? And they're either going to be angry or sad and they're just going to, either one we do on one.

So what advice would you have to a Pilates instructor who's tuned in and they're going, what do you mean that we don't need to do core activation exercises?

What do you mean we shouldn't be spending so much time finding symmetrical or kind of neutral pelvis what advice would you have for them so okay so before we before i answer those questions i'm gonna bring it back a little bit okay so as i say this topic is actually sparked me and i'm i'm i will say i'm a humble physio that i want to just keep learnings and keep you know going every like growth every day so the thing is that why i start to questions and when i listen to to

this topic as it's like okay this gonna lead this help to actually this actually help people who have misconceptions or you know because evidence informed pilates what rafael says actually okay first the best evidence so the client the person preference of perspective and also our expertise combined so there's a definition of like notation difference like definition of notation of evidence-based. Practice and evidence-informed Pilates. I might not am a native speaker.

So I went back, I went to the Cambridge Dictionary to see, okay, evidence-informed means. So I would say evidence-informed as mean is like, it's not restricts, it's just stricts from the rule book, but it's actually more like, okay, we can get adapted, we can combine things.

This and those combined with our expertise to actually guide our clients to to the beds to the bed result or tailor the exercise to that person to keep the result so to answer those questions i already that person who still who who already like okay what the concept that has been taught is that wrong so i should i what should i do about the you know free activations and all the stuff that's our that's that why i already answered and the first that less we we

already have married era we already have the turning point right so it's okay to have some chain less the research guides us because that actually have something supports to what we do so sometimes there's an idea i used to be the person who used pre-activation because the thing that i was taught when i was like third year fourth year physical students as well we already say that okay upper cross syndrome lower cross syndrome antidepressant tail tight hip flexor and everything weak glutes

all of those things like antidepressant tail is no not normal things when i was taught and also ones right now is we just embrace the difference is all is also a normal distributions we don't we don't work just ideal things right now that was i thought like i try to embrace the difference as well. Yeah, so it doesn't have to be like same as flat feet would be tall in terms of physio. People who have flat feet doesn't always show the problem. So we also consider that normal as well.

So same as pelvic two, neutral, possession, point your pelvic forward, point it back. But if we think about the scoliosis and we want to improve the range of motion or the amplitude, pelvic two is also a good exercise to use.

But not just say or blame the pelvic teal that you have anterior pelvic teal you need to bring it back not like that it's from my point of view if it's not bringing you the issues pain or just like something that it actually we need to look at as a bigger picture that's great that's great advice so yeah so basically what i'm hearing is you don't have to stop getting your clients or patients to do the same exercises as you've been doing with them but you mustn't or

it you should not kind of blame a lack of position or certain position on their pain because it's a bit more complicated than that you're not striving for the perfect symmetry or the norm great no really cool so i'm interested then what is if we take those things out of the equation so we're not chasing symmetry we're not looking for a perfect neutral purpose what would you say are the main advantages of Pilates as a form of exercise for people who are, well, for anybody who.

Okay. So as for my point of view is, as I say, I would say, there's one people say that library, that light instead of toolbox. I prefer to use right library because sometimes when we actually like know more things and try to learn more things, same. Pilates is also another kind of like library for me that I could, you know.

Pick up and, you know, tailored exercise suit to that people as well so i consider pilates also another strengthening exercises and you know breathing is like a whole body approach like because it's my like more like a breathing exercises mental exercises so as from my point of view it's also another library like the things in my library that i could pick and tailor that things to mind clients so i'm not trying to say that this is okay this one is amazing older than that one or this one is

less than that one i think it just like depends on that person needs like that is that answer your questions yeah no no i think so no it's great it's kind of it gives you more i like the way you do change from toolbox to library i think that's going to catch on now um.

Yeah it gives you more kind of whole body experiences for the person to go through which could help and also the breathing as well a nice whole body approach maybe what would be quite cool is could you without giving away any names or anything can you think of any case histories or any conditions where you have used your knowledge of pilates to help a client outcome so i would say one interesting one is probably scoliosis so um i'm i might

to be disclaimer i might not offer i'm expert in scoliosis here but i have one scoliosis case which is functionals and I feel like I had this experience and I feel like Pilates has specific exercises for scoliosis like I mentioned already like pelvic tail to kind of let's and then like. So the thing is, I try to combine the idea that I had from Pilates that I learned from the course, plus the recent scoliosis rehab research.

So I try to search, okay, what one I could do, what should I update, because I'm not an expert in scoliosis. So I combine what I learned from classical Pilates networks with target the breathing drill.

So you can say like you can see the the scoliosis breathing exercise also really important as well and yeah like that so i try to combine this and use this with my clients yeah like that pretty much like that so i have a definition of because we're kind of familiar as well as a slight kink in the spine once upon a time which was out of symmetry we would say isn't necessarily going to cause pain or problems.

And we've seen plenty of examples of athletes with a little bit of scoliosis or a little bit of a change. What's your definition of, you said like functional scoliosis. What's your definition of scoliosis that needs actual intervention? So as I say, so right now I'm trying, because when I see scoliosis as people, first we know some people come with the x-ray, some people doesn't. So functionals, I think, is more like from the muscle imbalance from both sides.

So we start to more like, let's try to move this side and then let's see the concave and the convent curve and then let's use the exercises to help them to you know do more like breathing exercise combined with together but as I say I'm not an expert in coliosis but I'm also the person who try as much as I could to help people so I went back home working on the studies I take a little bit of short courts for like four hours of CPD in the UK to work on Pilates for scoliosis people and.

Okay sorry i was just distracted oh don't worry about them they've got loads of conversations going and they're talking about bird dogs or something that's fine yeah i think the bird dogs okay i haven't used it for ages so um so so pretty much like that and also the people um for i that i use pilates with beside the scoliosis is more like um and just general people who are more like a computer base and we start to like let them move more most of the people that regarding

to my experience most of the people who like pilates is going to be more like they choose this because they prefer to do this and they think is they can say consistency so what i normally advise to my client is if if you find something that you could do consistency and you enjoy doing it just keep doing it even though it's different form of exercises like there is most most of my clients and they don't want to go to the gym and i said like okay strengthening weight

training exercise is amazing but if you if you don't want to go to the gym but if you want to keep doing the pilates that's also mean the consistency and discipline is more like accountability as well so i was just like okay just do what you think you can stick on for long times like that's good that's true yeah it's definitely the evidence like you started saying evidence informed you have to give a little bit of the clients what they like what they

enjoy because otherwise the exercise adherence is not going to be there. I'm interested, again, so Rafa talked about a lot of the misconceptions out there with regards to looking for symmetry and looking for kind of that pre-activation of the core muscles.

What about somebody who's listening, who is running a class of, I don't know, 20 mat pilates or something, and they've been using a lot of these cues and doing pre-activation exercises, and imagine that they've listened to some of Rafa's episodes and they've realized that I shouldn't really be using these internal cues. I should be using more external cues, for example, or because I'm not really helping these people as much as I potentially could.

Maybe they need to change the language they're using. That's probably going to have an effect on the class. In your experience, how do people who are receiving Pilates react when you start tweaking the messages you're giving?

Are they kind of surprised or they just go with it so mine says i okay i have this transitions i passed i mean my experience might not that long but i have this transitions happen with me as well so first is when i start using one terms or describe some wasn't some people they don't understand and they might not get it or maybe some people they just stick to this cue already and then when we start to see in the way we say the words there are two ways so they respond

differently so they don't understand at all or they just okay they get it more, And then they just calm down. So basically, I think it's okay that you start to change a little bit and, you know, get and also, you know, collect the data and response from your clients. That's why I learned from Raphael that is, that's why it's called Evident Inform. You need to, you know, gathering the information from a client's perspective as well. So I'm not just like, right, okay, I'm going to change today.

His episodes is actually kind of like, less giving me a question mark throw the questions and then okay what is it what i do is it the right one and i feel like okay let's try to see how it go let's start to adapt and change a little bit but not rapid change it's okay that you can start to implement things a little bit but not just rapid change one night like that from my point of view so you might get different response regarding regarding the clients or the people who

are working on but it's okay to you know change it doesn't have to be like as i say let the research guide us i'm also up to.

People who follow the research and also you know we we i'm not a researcher but the thing is we also kind of like see the trends how fast the world is the changing even though it's in a normal day on academic day so it's just like it's not that it's not that a big scary thing to make change or a little job for us before you do a big jump like that if you feel like it's really hard to just swap everything rapidly so just make sure that you kind of like do it smoothly in your way i will say

that's nice that sounds that's hopefully not as scary as listeners might be thinking about having to suddenly do totally different classes and i like the idea you said about you know keeping communication going with your class and your clients and seeing how they feel and how they react to slightly different cues and stuff that's really cool as well so that's great and don't forget people who join us live if you've got any questions or if you do is anybody

in the live audience actually take pilates or use pilates inspired movements and stuff like that and do do feel free to put the question in there. I just wanted to say to make sure that Raphael's podcast, Pilates Elephants, is still very much alive and kicking, can be found on all popular podcast apps. I didn't actually realize how many he does.

I mean, when I first spoke to him in 2021, yeah, he was on episode 52 back then in 2021, and now he's on 307, which means he's doing an average of more than one a week, which has actually made me feel a little bit jealous because I thought I was doing well with one a week and he's actually beaten that he's incredible but yeah there is just for people who are listening there is a whole well there's like 307 episodes where

he takes you through and i think i like to think he is pretty gentle in looking after people especially back in the beginning where he's with chloe chloe bunter he's a co-host they're really good they're just looking after you they're not going to jump on a pedestal and say you're doing it all wrong you're an idiot, And I think that's really important because it is scary to have to change what you're doing, but it's natural, isn't it? We shouldn't really fear it.

Does it make you want to go back to the school who taught you the Pilates and get your money back? Or do you understand that that's kind of what they were teaching? Yeah, I mean, I... Is it an option to get money? Yeah. Yeah, I was like, I never think about it until you say it. But I mean, it's also the journey that who I am today. So probably just invest what I'm seeing right now.

So yeah, but I, the big thing that I haven't talked about it, and I want to say it right now is the thing is, I want to, you know. I love his, I mean, Bender, I love Bender picks big pictures and views and his energetic styles that actually inspiring to hear.

You know the instructor who actually digging into science and then i feel like okay and he doing thing he continue doing podcasts and the the the instagram as well too you know more like a mini micro cpd for people who actually you know working on the phones every day and then scrollings and that's also what the thing that you're doing right now and i was just like i'm really thankful that he's brought this up and actually you know inspires the people who actually use this exercise or this

form of exercise like me to actually okay what's the question this is the question mark and how could we do it in a better way and what the research say what the clients experience like this and that i feel like he not like this is not good like that as you say so he actually gives support things an idea to just okay lead us to do like so i'll say is this a research to practice gap like that so is i'll say bender alludes to pilates cause often includes older belief

and new teachers just f-stop and just like a strategy on start to integrating research into teacher trainings that's what the big question that i could get so my question is is it okay For instance. Should certification program require an evidence-informed or best practice module in the Pilates training course?

Probably like if you're training in pilates core should we have the certificates or the module that is actually talk about even better practice or choose studios can subscribe to more like a journal that actually have updated cpd or regular meetings like that so it's going to be you know more in terms of practice and bridge the gaps between research to the practice gap like that because to be honest sometimes if i learn one topics i might not because there are

area that we use as a physio we might not stay updated on this one area that thing that already go go really fast for example if you use an acl we listened to the therapy expo last year about the quads the quad tendon surgery that actually started to expanding in the uk and and in thailand we still do hamstring grafts as well so it's like if i'm not the people who have a lot of acl experience like clients and experience i'm not gonna go and you know update that

much area same as the physio same as the pilates as well so it's gonna be nice if we actually put this into training course as well to for pilates instructor and have kind of like the the places that we could actually see updated like like what vendor do so i'm i just want to say thank you.

To him that actually you know doing this as well right that's very nice so when i yeah when i think about pilates and science like okay let's see his intergrams so it's going to be a really quick read comparing to if you need to spend time for probably an hour probably two hours like me if the english is not my first language so i need to like okay so that's kind of a very quick quick knowledge update dali's i would say.

Yeah, definitely. He's very good on Instagram and is a very nice way of learning and taking on the information bit by bit. Breathe Education is the tag if you're looking for Raphael Bender, the website, Breathe Education, and then also on Instagram. And also he has a personal account as well. Yeah, it's a good information. So did you say you're not angry with the people who charged you for that Pilates course?

You just think, it's who I am today, it's fine. Or do you think they've a little bit a little bit to be honest because of also i mean think about i have no ideas first i still believe that is right for my bachelor degrees okay i'm taught as a physio so bachelor also taught me so i want to teach when i learn it okay that's right okay let's try lecture studies studies and then when we would we actually when i actually listen to his podcast is actually okay okay that's

a good question and when i read the paper that it came out right that's aligned so that's what we do all the way in the past wrong and how.

Could we do i'm i'm getting angry a little bit but the thing is yeah we need to move forward right so just like keep updating that is the more important thing that i learned from this actions and you know what happened to me that even once we learn things we cannot just stay and think is it's going to be right forever it could be but the thing is everything you.

Change every day so keep update is the thing that is going to be another i will say skill that most of the healthcare provider not just the lattice instructor or physio have to do that's very cool so you're taking it as a positive experience yeah i'm trying to update it yeah yeah i don't try to be optimistic but yeah a little bit of money back would be nice yeah because they're not cheap some of these and unfortunately again it's like because this very much and i think raf as well mentioned

this in the podcast it's there's lots of similarities between pilates and soft tissue therapy and manual therapy because it's all very much the problems are basing it on a kind of path of anatomical model a structural model where we're blaming structure the biomechanics and we're looking for perfect symmetry and so there's a very much a similar situation going on but if we're working with people in pain and people are paying us money and coming

to us for professional opinions we've kind of got a duty to make sure we're giving them something which is up to date otherwise we're taking money for someone in pain and that's an ethical nightmare we really shouldn't be doing it so it's interesting Thank you.

But yeah right well look it's 8 43 that was fast oh okay that's a very fast i feel like i'm still wide awake even though it's almost 3 a.m morning no it's really nice to hear your perspective and i love the way you're paying homage to raf who's a great educator and i will contact him and give him a link to this obviously he's in melbourne in australia so he's fast asleep now because when he joined us it was seven in the morning so

he might actually he might be up now he could be up It could be about half or seven, eight o'clock. I think it's probably six hours for me. So I'm not sure. Yeah, I think it's about eight o'clock there. But I'll make sure I throw this to him. It's very cool. If people are interested in staying in contact with you, then Instagram, did we say, is the best place? Yeah, you can just DM me. Because right now I'm back to Thailand already because of my personal reason.

So I'm not in the UK anymore. um so if you have any things or any suggestions or feedbacks i'm really open to everything so you can just direct me or inbox to my instagram so i think that's at we physio yeah yes that one.

W-e-e physio right so which is good because that's a segue into why you called the we physio yeah i'm just like i'm just thinking about the the names and then i that day there are one football at that he taught me glass region and he taught me the word we like that doesn't mean a little and I was just like oh I love that word and I'm only you know a small not a small but I'm just like the people who run around with the football players and then just

like okay right I'm here everybody I was just like oh we feel so gonna be a nice name and I and I also I to be honest I love Glasgow so much it's or it's already my second home and I feel like when I create something it's also shaved me to this person it's gonna be it's gonna be nice to have the words, that's kind of like a scottish word on my instagram. Very nice. And when you were there, you were with NK Physio, with Natalie Carle there?

Yes, I was. My old workplace is NK Physio. I am in Glasgow, East Brite. And with Natalie, she's an amazing person as well. It's amazing how you say the word Glasgow. Suddenly you go into such a perfect Scottish accent. Yeah, most people listening would go Glasgow, but you're like, when I am in Glasgow, or it's perfect. Glasgow. I, that's a yes, I. No, that's great. Yeah, so shout out to Natalie Kyle from mkphysio.com in Glasgow.

We'll make sure that that link goes in there because I know you're very proud of the work that she does over there in Glasgow. And hopefully one day we'll bring the STA conference up to Glasgow. We've got a few contacts up there. I'm taking my Gait course to Calendar, which is, well, not that close to Glasgow. It's more Stirling, but it's, yeah, up there. Oh, Stirling? Yeah, it's just down the road from Stirling.

So it's not too far away from Glasgow. I think it's probably 20 minutes train from Glasgow. It's not too bad. Not too fast at all. It's not too bad. We have actually got in the audience tonight Stevie Barr from the Scottish Therapist Facebook group. He's in Glasgow. So we got, yeah, Scottish representatives in tonight. Do you know the Scottish Facebook group? Scottish Therapists on Facebook? I'm not sure, but I'm not in any group.

If you miss Scotland, then they'll send you the link. That's a nice place in case you are missing Scotland.

It's a good place to hang out with therapists. you know what when i'm in scotland's what what why what i normally do so i watch the glass videos videos on youtube and then i realized that i barely understand it and i was just like oh my god i used to understand that not 100 but probably more than 50s but yeah right now i just like what did you say yeah like that oh there's one people say that um you have glass video and thai accents thank you kofun kha.

Nikki said that I have a Glaswegian tie isn't I yeah yeah definitely that's a compliment and Stevie from Glasgow has said understandable yeah yeah he understands everything you're saying it is tricky to understand yeah Glasgow it's a pretty unless you're from Glasgow anyway right so thank you so much for giving up your time really appreciate it really interesting reflections and if you are listening to this podcast and you have got any questions on

Pilates or you want more information then yeah follow sharia at we physio w-e-e physio on instagram and also we'll put links in there to the pilates elephants podcast so much and and to rafael bend and all of that wonderful right then.

Next week, we continue with our Reflection Series on May the 13th. Yeah, got the date right at eight o'clock. My guest is going to be sports massage therapist Hannah Tabram, who's also been on the show before, who's going to be reflecting on episode 87, Menopause Transition, Soft Tissue Implications. That was recorded as part two of a women's health series we did back in February 2022 with special guest Jenny Browell, very big in the women's health industry.

So that's going to be a really good reflection with sports massage therapist, Hannah Tabram. Looking forward to that. And remember people, if you would like to be a guest on the show, then to chat about a particular episode, then all you got to do is just hit me up on social media. So either at RunChatLive or at UK underscore STA, and we'll have a discuss. Sharia, you were pretty nervous. I think we can admit before you started,

but then English is just like a language. But do you feel more relaxed now? Do you feel like... I'll say yes, because the thing is I speak tight.

Whole day today and I was just like okay and I feel like I lost some confidence in my watching the video of Glaswegian people speaking English and I barely understand so I was just like okay am I gonna fully understand I was just like okay this is 2 p.m and how I'm gonna work so I drink coffee not sure when I'm gonna go to bed yeah yeah yeah good luck with that but no I really appreciate you joining us um at such yeah like 2 30 whatever it's three o'clock

in the morning in Thailand. So thank you very much. Really appreciate it. Okay, people, that brings us to the end. Oh, sorry. That's fine. Absolute pleasure. Thank you very much. Right, people, that brings us to the end of the episode. 8.50, not bad. It was a great topic.

And I'm hoping some of you will be able to join us live. If you listen to the podcast, then do please, please, please leave a rating or a review just so we can get the word out there to more people because that's part of changing education is just making Google work for you. But it's only going to happen if you leave ratings and reviews for the podcast that appears higher up. So please do that if you listen to the podcast. Everyone who joined us live, thank you so much again, gang. Nikki says,

lovely wee episode. Thanks, guys. Lovely. Stevie Barr says, nice chat, folks. Thank you very much. Yeah, really appreciate you joining us live. Thank you so much. Kau phun ha. Kau phun ha, Stephen. As I mean, thank you in Thai. There you go. We'll make a soundbite out of that. We'll test you next week. Let's see what you can see. Right. Thanks a lot. Thank you very much, Sharia. really appreciate it yes thank you for having me and thank you enjoy your night as well everybody. Music.