Ep.245 'Musculoskeletal Health at Menopause' - Reflection with Nichola Smith

Music. You doing? Welcome to episode 245 of the Sports Therapy Association podcast.

My name is Matt Phillips, creator of runchatlive.com. And as always, this episode is being recorded live at eight o'clock on a Tuesday on the Sports Therapy Association YouTube channel.

In this 11th episode of our Reflection Series, I will very shortly be chatting with Nicholas Smith of chamomilehealthholistic.uk, who has chosen to reflect on episode 210 of the Sports Therapy Association podcast, which was entitled Musculoskeletal Health and Menopause, recorded August 27th, 2024, with special guest Michelle Lyons.

Before we bring up Nicola, as you may be aware, apologies for last week, and there wasn't a live recording, so even the people coming through the room now, I know you're in line for apologies.

So sorry, Cecily, sorry, Nikki, sorry, Angela thomas it was unfortunately yes sophie's throat like a lot of people around at the moment was not in the mood for talking and rather putting her through that strain and through our audience through the strain of a creaky little whistly voice and we thought we'd postpone it but the good news is that sophie gover of run doctor.co.uk will be happening the episode will be happening on july the 15th and sophie's going to be reflecting on episode

146 of the podcast which was entitled Gait Analysis for Runners and Modern Approach, which anyone who knows me realizes that that's the name of my CBD course. And so, yeah, back in 2023, the tables were kind of turned and Gary Benson, who's the founder of the STA, sat in the host chair and he asked me about running gait analysis and my course and all that sort of stuff. So, yeah, Sophie Gover is going to be reflecting on that episode, which is going to be interesting.

So if you do work with runners, then put eight o'clock on Tuesday, July the 15th in your Diary and join us live on YouTube or Facebook if for some strange reason you prefer Facebook. Also, a little bit of housekeeping going tonight, people. Thanks for bearing with me. Also, on July the 1st, we're going to be recording a live panel episode called Facebook Groups for Massage Therapists. Helpful or Hateful?

Quite like that title. I was quite proud of that. And you can't see the artwork if you are listening to the podcast, but you will see there's like an emoticon with kind of a zip on its mouth. And basically what we're doing is some feedback from our listeners and STA members.

There's quite a large group of people now, younger therapists, less experienced therapists who feel that they're being bullied a little bit, not bullied, but maybe just felt like they feel like they're being bullied a little bit by comments and judgments on social media and they're not in a good place.

So what we're going to do is we're going to have a debate on Tuesday, July the 1st with six people who have felt, kind of pressure in Facebook groups when they were just kind of trying to ask for advice. And then on the week after, because there's always two sides to the story, there's always a pendulum. On the week after, I'm going to have a group of older therapists, more experienced therapists who will be stating why sometimes, you know, the truth's going to hurt.

And we do, as an industry, need to infiltrate, is the word they'll probably use, a lot of the forums where. Less, let's say, non-evidence-informed practice is being thrown around and people are maybe cheating or asking questions about topics which are totally out of their scope of practice. And sometimes, yeah, you've got to kind of say how it is. So yeah, we're going to have that.

And then maybe we'll have a third episode where the guys and girls will get together and it's all beautiful and we solve all world conflict. So that's the plan anyway. So if you're interested, if you have suffered, you feel like you've suffered in a Facebook group where all you wanted was a bit of advice and you feel like if you jumped on a little bit and you'd like to be on the podcast to talk about that with five other people, then hit me up.

You are listening to the Sports Therapy Association podcast putting evidence back into soft tissue therapy. I'm obviously a leader of quality internet connection and a webcam and a mic and all that and I will kind of check you out a little bit to make sure that you're suitable. But I'm sure as long as you've got that experience and you are a soft tissue therapist, then it'd be great to hear from you. That is going to be July the 1st. Right then, let's crack on with tonight's

episode. Let's just move that out of the way. So tonight, as I mentioned, episode 210 we're going back to, the Sports Therapy Association podcast, which was with the wonderful Michelle Lyons of Celebrate Mouli Ebrity.

And my therapist tonight who has chosen to reflect on that episode is Nicola Smith of Chamomile Health, who I shall now bring back. Music. Sorry to leave you down there for so long. I hope all your needs were taken care of. You had grapes and fanning and all that sort of stuff. I'm good to see you. Thank you for giving up your time. We spoke a little bit off air. It is a bit nervous. Nervous, isn't it? A little bit. I was like, where's the other people? Yeah, exactly.

I forgot to tell you that it would just be you. Sorry about that. I must have slipped my memory.

But hey, this is one of the... We get some great feedback for this series of reflections. And one of the things is it just gives other people confidence to do something like this. So I appreciate the fact that you are stepping out of your comfort zone. Although I must admit that I do find it slightly ironic, given that you've just got your second damn black belt in jiu-jitsu. Can you explain that kind of like juxtaposition of nerves and yet?

I don't know. I was very nervous for that, to be fair. But I think when you've got several people lying to throw you around, it kind of, it focuses the mind a little bit, doesn't it?

So oh it's just a question of focus that's fine yeah especially them most of them are at least half your age so how did you get into that i'm really interested how did you get into jiu-jitsu i see a lot of parallels with jiu-jitsu and healthcare that's why but we won't go down that road well the children were doing it my son was well son and daughter at that stage were both you know training doing that and their sensei was asking some of us moms if

we wanted to you know We considered if they set up a women's only group, would they be interested? So a couple of us sort of said, well, I will if you will. And here we are. And we're both coaching also. And that was... The kids have left. The kids have left. But we're still here. We're still there. And that was eight years, you say, to get your second down. Thank you, Cecily. I just got to thank you. Yeah, Cecily says, good on you, Nicola. Doing it for us girls.

Cecily, by the way, who will be on the show next week. So Cecily's sitting there biting her nails, hands and feet, I imagine. She's very flexible, Cecily. Yeah, she'll be on next week. So she will be, you're helping her as well. Yeah, no, great to hear. Fantastic. That's inspirational in itself.

Right, let's crack on the show. So for people who aren't aware of you, we've met a few times at Therapy Expo, and people may well have talked to you at Therapy Expo, but people who don't know who you are, Nicola, could you let us know a little bit about your history and what you do for a living and where you're based in the world? Well, I came in via a security route, really. I was, well, I still am a dental hygienist. I've done that sort of 30 odd years.

So sort of health, you know, in the still health sphere. And then when we moved, I'm in Lancashire currently, and I saw a prospectus for a complementary health course, therapies course at the local college. I thought that would be a good way to learn new things, broaden my horizons a little bit, meet people, et cetera.

So I got stuck into their degree course, which is where I met Gary Benson at that time because he was on the teaching stuff or you know he was you know in that role tutoring and so forth and and then for the final year we did soft tissue therapy more remedial work etc and so since then I've been doing you know soft tissue therapy sports massage also I do aromatherapy as well and reflexology so i do sort of in court we've kind of mix and match a

little bit and but you know depending what the need is i'm currently also working at a chiropractic clinic so quick shout out to bolton sorry i had to advertise oh yeah quick shout out to bolton spinal health in bolton for now so i'm one of the sports massage team there. And so I work closely with the chiropractors and we have a physio there as well. So quite multidisciplinary, which is nice. Work together in that sort of environment.

And then I see my own clients, probably more of the complementary side with my own clients, of which many of whom are menopausal women, hence my interest in this. Good segue.

Good segue. That was good. I'm interested to just briefly go. My own personal menopausal journey.

Yeah so obviously that's why you know so I think maybe that's why that's why I tracked that sort of demographic because I'm you know I can relate perhaps yeah which is important isn't it I'm interested just briefly before we go into that so you're in a multidisciplinary clinic which is something we've talked about quite a lot do you get the benefit of that do you have chats with your chiropractors your physios are they kind of willing to kind of talk about patients or A little,

although because it's quite a busy clinic and their chiropractic appointments, obviously because of the adjustments, it's much shorter appointments. So there's not often, unless we're, which is quite often, obviously we share clients. So unless there's a specific point that they want to discuss about a shared client, then not as often as, you know, perhaps I'd like.

There you go. I get to speak more to the physio, to be honest, since she started, because of the where the appointment schedules run. So that tends to work better. So sometimes I'll pick her brains and vice versa. That's cool. That's useful. Right. So yeah, 240 episodes of the Sports TV Association podcast, which you could have chosen from. You've kind of already alluded to why you chose this. But yeah, this was an episode recorded with Cheryl Lyons.

And yeah was it what made you particularly choose that episode is it because a lot of your clients are with that is it particularly michelle lyons or um well i i hadn't i don't think i'd come across her before then or maybe maybe just in passing perhaps i didn't know how it worked so well but obviously you know having listened to the podcast yeah she's very impressive therapist and educator, and I was how she managed to just rattle off all those you know.

Research perhaps it was quite beyond me but you know and others as well to be fair other speakers that we had so that's that, that's always very impressive to me but yes a lot of uh what she said sort of resonated with me as a you know menopausal woman and also a lot of the clients that I see are in that bracket or perimenopausal as well but just some of the the statistics that she you know drew them quite, dramatic I mean something like I've got my notes here just

I'm not I haven't got her power of recall no many people exactly sometimes i remember why i went in the kitchen just things like you know like 25 year nearly difference in when like the loss in lean muscle mass between men and women for example that's quite you know shocking really how you know we we start losing muscle mass from in our early 30s whereas with with men it's not until sort of mid 50s and things like that and And also,

I think, and just the nature of how our hormones change throughout our lives as women and how that has an impact. I think other speakers that you've had on have alluded to how you can adapt your training to sort of best fit where you are in your menstrual cycle, for example. And so, you know, there's times when you suffer fatigue and injury more.

So obviously then that's when you draw back a little bit and then maximize times when you you have got more power more energy and so on so from that aspect and then at this the end of the the other end of the it um perimenopause menopause just in terms of injury and well injury prevention I suppose which is where we should be looking at things from and she she picked up on.

Rotator cuff issues, which I've had a lot of issue with myself, obviously it doesn't help being tossed around in a dojo, but just in general, women who are struggling, I don't know, playing with their grandkids or doing the cooking that they want to do, because I had a lady the other day actually, and she said, I can't make chapatis because it just really hurts in my shoulder.

And you know that just the normal day-to-day things like that so and just realizing the impact that was changing hormone levels estrogen plummets and how that impacts on your general health and then and then from you know like yourselves running experts like yourselves uh to talk about um tibial tendon issues and then saying i think i'm not sure if this was her that said this actually, but something else I read where sometimes that is misconstrued as plantar fasciitis in this

group of women and so maybe there's sometimes there's a bit of perhaps mismanagement because the focus is on potential plantar fasciitis and she was saying that you should be like looking more at strengthening the soleus for example to help to you know to counter that.

So yeah loads loads there i mean you've you've given a perfect example of why michelle lyon's podcasts are so cool because there's so much that she gets out in there i wanted to the first thing you mentioned because that was really interesting about the the fact that yeah women may well start losing muscle the age of 31 before guys yeah it's interesting for two reasons one because i think guys start complaining about it earlier on they start making these noises getting up

from chairs and getting up from women as always kind of just crack on with it so it always seems that guys are kind of suffering earlier than women but it's really interesting isn't it because like michelle says in the episode it's tricky because even the advice given out and the kind of feeling is that if you're going to make this if you're going to make life better for yourself at perimenopause menopause and do your cardio get your cardio done get fit and a lot of women

don't either naturally or sometimes they're not led towards strength training really as michelle said.

That's where the magic bullet she kind of says is isn't it getting done have you found that with you with clients that they just don't want to do it or have never considered doing stress i think maybe more not considered it although i mean i'm quite fortunate insofar as where i see my own clients at the therapy room is at a fitness studio where quick shout out again aims of body science and big them up as well but uh liam who's um trained.

By paul check and if you've come across yeah so that's the general ethos of the place it's very sort of holistically minded but they're all about the strengths and. We have a lot of women women come through well men and women obviously but talk about women in this. Instance that come through and that you know. Positively encouraged to to get strong and.

You know it's because i think with with for us women the whole fitness thing as you say it's all about cardio it's all about losing the weight and you know and i try and educate clients and saying you know you're not going to turn into i don't know arnie or somebody overnight i can't think of a female but overnight and and even if you know if you do build that muscle that's that's good because that's what's going to stop you from you know breaking your hip later on in life from you know

not being able to get up off the floor in you know heaven forbid you should fall and all those kind of things and and and just managing your day-to-day life really because we've you know your osteopenia and even as early as perimenopause and osteocorosis much more prevalent amongst women because of that impact the estrogen and so you know but the strength the sooner you can guess on with a strength training and also that's something else I think that michelle highlighted you know this you throw

out your little tiddly pink ways and um and get something a bit more substantial because it's more about um heavier weights and lower reps and you know really and i think um oh gosh i've forgotten her name now claire um minshaw yes thank you yeah she's she's all about that message as well and and i know she's worked with older age groups as well isn't she so i think a lot of her research into that as well and and. Introducing power as well as strength.

Yeah. It's tough though, isn't it? It's a good example of a difficult conversation that I think, I think massage therapists, hand-on therapists, therapists, soft tissue therapists, anybody who has that kind of hands-on contact, it's a, I think it's such an advantage for them to be able to help kind of.

Somebody take on strength training and actually start it and get that behavior change, which is quite a change in your mind and dynamics. And if you go, who else is going to tell you, you're not going to do it because you pick up a bodybuilding magazine or you're not going to go to a gym. But when somebody who's already got that therapeutic alliance says, you know what, you need to get you some heavier weights.

The conversation can happen, can't it? Which is, I think, where so much power comes from you being in the clinic. You know, the physio might say it, the chiropractor might say it, and they might go, yeah, yeah, fine, just kick my back again.

Oh yeah do that but if you say it yeah they've got that relationship they go really can i do that yeah which is why we need those skills in communicating yeah how have you picked up those skills along the way is it something that you've maybe learned along with jiu-jitsu or other things in your life where you're sorry do you mean in terms of the like communicating no i mean just just just helping people make behavior changes i think well i just

suppose throughout life i mean in the you know from the dental side of it I mean you know obviously the whole educated people in oral health and and also how oral health relates to systemic health there's a lot more of that to do with say heart issues diabetes and things like that and you know that's why we're flossing not so we can have Simon Carroll teeth or what have you you know it's there is a there is a more, realistic and more serious issue surrounding that and think and similarly with

the you know from the exercise point of view for us as therapists is that it's the long-term health benefits as I was saying about you know.

Trying to slow that loss of muscle tissue and slow the you know the bone loss because obviously the you know muscles getting stronger that that helps to impact on your bones putting on the bones and encouraging bone growth you know obviously there's going to be a decline but you want to kind of slow things down I don't know and the other thing sorry I'm backtracking slightly the other thing that Michelle was saying and other people as well in

that around that area I've talked about HRT and because I think there's been a lot of fear, not fear-mongering perhaps, but maybe there's more research perhaps now and good research saying that about the benefits and not saying, oh, you know, HRT, I can't do that because of cancer. But then it's like, well, and I'm not, I don't want to detract from those who have, you know, been through cancer.

Maybe it's that as a cause, not at all. and obviously it's a personal choice and you've got to find the balance that's right for yourself but I think maybe people are a bit wary of well women are wary of having HRT using that to help balance the amount you know the estrogen depletion so again that's another something that in our in the context of as you say therapeutic alliance that it's a safe space and people they don't feel so rushed and they can talk,

you know, what do you think? Make a little bit of a discussion. I, again, I was talking about signposting earlier. I signposted this site called Menopause Checker, I think it is. Don't quote me on that. I'll see if I can find it. But that's quite a good resource. But, you know, it again gives even more resources and evidence-based research about HRT and about other ways of managing menopausal symptoms. And perimenopause as well.

No, that's great. Great resources. And if there's any resources like this, even if listeners have got some good resources, people in the live lounge, if you've got any resources, then put them in the comments. We'll make sure they go into the show notes.

Yeah michelle makes a point of saying that doesn't she that as therapists we need to we do need to stay up to date with the research because things do change a lot and and thankfully so with regards to female health things change pretty quickly because finally now we have got female researchers working excuse me with a female population so there's a lot more being discovered now the last five years and has been in the last 50 years which is good but it means we do have to stay down the ball.

I did write something down, which I, what did she mention? I think she mentioned osteoarthritis. Yeah. She mentioned that women are more prone to osteoarthritis in their hips and knees than men. But now she said, thanks to like newer research, there's evidence now that dietary strategies and strength training strategies can actually get some really good outcomes with that. So there's a lot we can do by education of our patients and clients.

And I think she, sorry to interrupt, she talked about the holistic approach and looking at nutrition and at least you mentioned strengths training.

And also, I mean, we talk about the psychosocial model, but that sort of psychosocial aspect of it as well, because the whole thing with brain fog and, and I'm not sure, I don't think this is, I think this is another speaker that I, or somebody else I've read or listened to in a podcast, saying about, women, I'm including myself in this, who was a.

It was late. I was pregnant in my 40s. So I probably went transition straight from pregnancy into perimenopause without even sort of really acknowledging that that sort of transitional period. I'm sure there's other women like me, yes, I think. And I think there's more women having children later on in life, I would say. So that was something else you touched on where, you know, you're still in that sort of postpartum phase and you're just coming up for air from that.

And then it's like, oh, no, you haven't finished for the year. There's this going on now. Now you're into this next stage. So that's something else to deal with or to manage. So, yeah, that was something else to consider. Lots of things to look out for. What are some of the things which either you discovered from Michelle or you've discovered by other means that questions you need to ask patients or things to look out for?

What sort of things have you noticed that maybe you'd be able to advise our listeners on? Oh, gosh. With regards to working, when you're working with, I mean, first of all, I guess they haven't got to be an older generation. They haven't got to be kind of 50 to 60. That's one thing. But let's imagine that they are 50 to 60. Right. Right. What are some of the things which, yeah, you've found that can help them that they do know about,

apart from the strength training we've mentioned? Is there anything else? Oh, magnesium supplements. That's something that comes to mind, I suppose, because I think that's particularly because sleep can be an issue during that time, even, you know, perimenopause, menopause, and, yeah, poor sleep quality. And magnesium, I think, I'm not sure, don't quote me on this, but I'm not sure if magnesium levels drop more then or maybe we don't absorb it as well. Maybe it's more the latter.

And obviously that has an impact on a lot of physiological processes. And so if they're not working as well, I think perhaps it is an absorption thing, yeah. So then that interferes with our sleep and people complain like restless legs or tingling feet, burning feet.

Obviously you know people the whole hot flushes thing that's quite well publicised isn't it although that's probably the bottom end of the scale I don't know depending on everyone's different and so on so I have recommended that, people take magnesium supplements obviously with guidance and you know looking at dietary, alternatives and so on and there's a we have a local nutritionist who sort of works alongside at the,

studio fitness studio where I work and so I quite often signpost people to her obviously people you know everyone people listening and someone will have their own local person I'm sure that they will know, Or sometimes I, the British Dietetic Association, they have some good fact sheets, patient fact sheets, which have information on how you can get magnesium from your food, which is obviously the ideal, but sometimes you need a bit of an

extra boost, certain things in your life, certain times in your life, sorry.

It's interesting isn't it because i think michelle mentioned this the problem is michelle mentioned this really well but there's a narrative isn't there that women when they reach this age they they're told by a lot of people even professionals you know what it's your age deal with it this is what it's going to be like now and that's where i think part of the problem is yeah i'm just listening to you now look at your nutrition look at your sleep hygiene there's so

much you can do to help with this chapter i'm having a sneaky look at my nose because i think i put that down somewhere as well and that's something we can do as therapists i mean it's not out of our scope of practice all we're doing is just helping these people realize that yeah no it's not just the case of accept it like it or lump it because there is a lot you can do isn't there when you're working in this population

yeah definitely oh another another thing that i scribbled down as well was which i did i think i might have mentioned earlier siobhan donovan the booby physio yes Because again, I'm thinking of women in sport and I think it was, I'm forgetting who said what now, but somebody quoted that an athlete is anyone who chooses to do sport. I think that might have been it. That's nice. Yeah.

So I think we tend to think athlete and like professionals, obviously they're in a league of their own, obviously, but some of the same advice applies to athletes.

Anyone who does sporting activities so so but yeah looking at the bigger picture oh sorry and why I've kind of I've gone off track a little bit there but so for women in sports like the younger population that they can be put off doing sport at the younger end of the the spectrum so for things like I don't know just like I think you mentioned about say women changing their color of their kit so they have darker shorts for example oh that was no that was michelle she was pointing out it was

the irish who was it was the irish oh the tomogi as a camogie yeah yeah yeah but they they having to wear uh skorts and instead of which impeded the movement instead of weighing shorts like the like the men and so on so forth so and they've sort of campaigned for that and i think it was a football team was it who was saying about wearing the darker colors yeah only like a year prior allowed to change from white to blue which is okay really but it gets um but also i think.

That's why i've come back to the point i was trying to make was in later life then things like pelvic health pelvic health where urinary urgency things like that and women having trouble with the pelvic floor and that can be off-putting in terms of doing sports because i think oh you know i don't have an accident i embarrass myself you know if i go for a run or do something that's explosive movements and things like that so from that side of things and sort of being compassionate to that

or highlighting I think she mentioned Gronja Donnelly who's pelvic health physio and and a lot more to pelvic floor exercises and just your kegels and it's not necessarily about.

Your pelvic floor muscles being weak is that they might be too like too hypotense and then it could be causing an issue and so doing more exercise and and just more awareness into that and and that side of things and into sporting because that might be a barrier for women you know if you're saying well you know if you do the exercises you need to get stronger and then women thinking well i don't want to do that because then i might you know have an accident i might embarrass themselves

etc so putting things into place that are that make women feel comfortable and so they they can do the exercises itifies that's amazing there's so much in that last eight minutes of things that you've mentioned ways that you can help somebody and again it's the perfect setting it might be during a massage when when you've got that alliance and and you're talking about things and they're peeling off the layers and this is where you can drip in these bits of information.

And again, you're not prescribing, you're not saying anything out, you're just saying have you considered this or referring people on. It's great, really good information and it's also simple as well.

It's not doing these complex weird exercises and these really kind of, and things which are going to take you know, three hours a day three times a week. It's just these little tiny adjustments. We've got some chat here from the Live Lounge. Let's have a little look.

Sally Martin, hi Sally, says menopause support.co.uk provide with help from a donation booklets to send now that you can give your clients i picked up the expo in 2024 and got a boxed and sent to me later on they're a good resource thank you sally cecily has come back with cecily his next week's guest said yes and it's totally pants i don't know whether that's connected to sally's comment or whether she's answering somebody else um ceci

you're gonna have to explain your your mention of pants yeah and then sally martin's come back also with the female Body Bible is an incredible book. We are fortunate. And you can just triple that down with some.

Yeah, there's some amazing, I mean, we live in our bubble, especially me, and I've met some incredible educators within female pelvic health, like you say, Gronny Donnelly and Emma Brockwell and Michelle Lyons, and we were talking about Jenny Bowell earlier on and Siobhan, and there's just amazing people.

But to us, it feels like they're everywhere, but for our patients who come in, they've never heard of these people and they probably you never will so it's up to the therapist like yourself to drop this information in oh yeah it's so important right like that makes sense now cecily thanks cecily's come back with when she was throwing to his pants that was to do with being too old there you go it always makes sense now what do you know about being old cecily you little

young chicken you it's like that fantastic. Brilliant. Yeah, so much about Michelle Lyons that we can learn from, and she's been on the show quite a few times. I just want to point out as well now, before I forget, Michelle Lyons is going to be speaking, Phil to say this for people who don't know, are going to be speaking at the STA Southwest Conference, which is happening in Exmouth this September the 20th and 21st in collaboration with the ST School and the Hands-On Hub.

And true to form, Michelle will be presenting the menstrual detective why the fifth vital sign might be the missing link in msk health for female athletes so very excited to have michelle along she's so supportive and with the sta and she really loves what we're doing in terms of getting this information out here so she's it's absolutely wonderful that she's taking time out to come over from ireland to eczemath literally she's on in the afternoon at 4 35 because

she won't get in from dublin until earlier on in the morning. So it's just amazing she's along. It's going to be a great weekend, people, in case you're not aware of it, as well as Michelle Lyons there. We're also going to have Claire Minchell, Serena Simmons, James Earles, Andy Hosgood. I'll be emceeing for a couple of days and also doing presentation. And there's other people who you will know presenting there. It's going to be wonderful.

And if you go to thestschool.co.uk, you'll find a link in the education tab with all of the details of speakers and who's coming up. There'll be a lot of familiar faces if you've been to Therapy Expo. And a wonderful quality of presentations and hands-on workshops there. Tickets are on sale, like I say, at the ST School at Dakota UK. There is a substantial early bird discount, of course, but it does run out at the end of June.

So watch out because we're already at the 17th of June and literally if you want to save yourself 50%, then make sure you do book a ticket before the end of June. And there's also a further STA member discount, which also runs out at the end of June, which will get you an extra £20 off. So it is pretty cheap now.

I don't want to say that because it's all relative, isn't it? But, compared to other forms of CBD and the quality of speakers and everything that's gone into this conference, then yeah, it's well worth it. So yeah, if you've got any questions, as always, ask them on social media or contact me, Matt, at the STA.co.uk. And you'll find loads of details of the discounts on the STA Facebook members only page. There we go. Right then. So, Nifla, thank you so much for reflecting.

You've managed to bring up so much information in there. I've I've already listened back to it and I want to listen back to it again now. I ramble on it. You have to sort of, you know. No, hey. It's because I know. That's amazing. It's really nice to see how it's affected you. Was there anything particular, again, I'm putting you on the spot again here, but do you remember if there was one bit of information which did surprise you, which were like, I didn't know that?

Or was it more a case of confirming stuff that you knew or kind of helping you explain stuff you knew?

Well i think some of the statistics like the one as i say about the when the lean muscle match i mentioned earlier i thought that that was quite shocking to me that was yeah that wasn't aware of or you know maybe hadn't thought of it in those sort of comparative terms so that in particular oh and sorry i'm just a little aside sorry i'm just having a quick look at my notes So you were mentioning about research and about more women in research, which is what Michelle was saying.

And because obviously we're looking at it more from that perspective. And also I think research comparing women against women, as opposed to, you know, women as small men and trying to compare two different physiological individuals, if you like.

I think that that's something else that's going to be useful going forward where, you know, there's that more personal take, more recognition on how we work as women. And then something else I was looking on, this FIFA have done some research, haven't they, to do with like the ACL injuries, et cetera, which are more women against hormones and different physique and so on.

But they were saying they used the preventative programs which they put in place as being able to reduce injury by 90%, which is amazing, just coming off the back of that extra research and tailoring, not tailoring, but, you know, changing the focus, shall we say.

Definitely yeah now michelle made a grand point of that she said she says if i can't do her action she says if i read another paper saying how women are more prone to acl injuries blah blah blah what about solutions she wants to know what about solutions we're looking in the wrong places, but now finally they are yeah you know and as.

She says it's probably more to do with the fact that a lot of women don't have access to gyms yeah or don't have access to the kit like you mentioned like the correct fitting bra which is make make feel uncomfortable or they're being forced to wear white shorts when you know it's yeah it's more about yeah inclusion as opposed to just the fact that physiologically they're shaped differently it's like yeah all stuff that can be changed as long as we kind of wise up and evolve a little bit

as a as a society and everything so yeah great stuff and also sorry and also in in gyms and cells we're going a little touching a little bit back on the booby physio stuff and if machines and so on are designed for a male form and then if you can't perform the exercise correctly because your bust is in the way for example then that's going to be off-putting or it means you're not going to do the exercise correctly and not get the correct benefits from it and and going

back from to our point of view for rehab exercises and so on adapting exercises to accommodate that with our female clients or certain female clients well i suppose for any adapting to any body shape etc really for that matter yeah that's true but yeah good point yeah great points we're getting better but my week has still got a long way to go i think it is getting better there's a lot of love in the house for you nicola i'm just looking at these comments here

uh got jessica janeman oh jessica thank you for joining us jessica um who uh was on the show earlier on um she says super useful thank you so much nicola. You've got deb's is here as well talking about women who support women we've got Big Deb's here. Yeah. Thanks for joining us, Debra. She says, thank you, Nicola, Cecily. Cracking episode. Thank you. There you go. The benchmark has been set, Cecily, for you next week. I was so nervous about coming on here. So thanks. Appreciate all the support.

Angela Thomason, thank you, Nicola. You were great. Thank you, Matt, as well, obviously, for just easing me. Oh, look, I'm so pleased that there's a guy in here listening as well. Thank you, Sir Glenn Murphy, MBE. Oh, thank you. Wow. An eye-opener. Thank you, Nicola. I'm glad. I always get a bit worried when there's these podcasts and it seems to be mainly women attending, which is not the idea, is it? That's good. Gary, of course. There's a few, Brian. Thanks for the male allies in the house.

The male allies in the house. That's great.

Okay, thank you so much, people. We have been reflecting, in case you're not aware, we've been reflecting on episode 210 of the Sports Therapy Association podcast, which is entitled Muscles, Lethal Health and Menopause, recorded August 27th, 2024, with special guest Michelle Lyons and my reflecting guest in this episode has been nicola smith of chamomile health holistic dot uk if people want to contact or follow you nicola there's got the website there you're also active on instagram is it,

Yeah. Well, she's done. There's some stuff on it. Some days there's some stuff on it. Sorry, I've just forgot to say I've given a shout out to everybody else. Just want to give a quick mention to my dojo, which is Masters of Martial Arts, Blackburn. So, and at Quington. So, just give them a quick mention. Sorry, I've got to go. I'm so loyal. You should have been wearing the t-shirts or something. Yeah, I should have had my logo in the background as well.

And to our ladies group as well. Hello to our ladies. We'll make sure that links for everyone you've mentioned goes into our show notes. Yes. Instagram, chamomile health. And then you're on Facebook as well. Sometimes chamomile health. So people can find you if they want to kind of contact you, which is great. We will be back as always next week. Who have we got on next week? Cecily? I'm not sure. Cecily's comment. Oh crap. There we go. Next Tuesday. It'd be great.

Next Tuesday at a clock on June the 24th, my reflecting guest will be none other than the one, the only Cecily Hislop of South Phoenix Massage Therapy, who's going to be reflecting on episode 118 of the podcast. And that was recorded September 2022. It was called Massage Manual Therapy, A Modern View. My guests back then were Paul Coker and Anna Maria Matsieri. So Cecily is going to be here and reflecting on that to share with us what she

picked up on from that episode. So we're looking forward to that.

And hopefully if you listen to the podcast, you want to join us live then that's all you have to do come along eight o'clock to youtube or facebook and you can join our wonderful live people who and thank you all as well for joining us making it i always say i probably wouldn't do this if it wasn't live so i really appreciate you people coming along it makes it very spontaneous and we get good feedback right that's it thanks once again nicola really appreciate your time you're

very welcome and all the best for next week cecily i'll i'll fine tune in that's normally my training night on a tuesday but i'll i'll i'll support you as you've supported to me. You just put even more pressure on her now. Now she's really going to be stressing out. Great. Thanks, people. Hopefully catch up with some of you next Tuesday on the Sports Therapy Association podcast. In the meantime, take care of each other. Music.