Is Deshaun Watson's Suspension Enough?

with the Houston Texans. On Monday, a retired federal judge named Sue Robinson, who was appointed by the NFL and the Players Association to oversee player discipline, ruled that Watson would be suspended for six games this season as a result of more than two dozen women alleging sexual missconduct

by him during separate massage therapy sessions. The ruling also stated that Watson will not be fined and that moving forward, all future massage therapy sessions for him must be with club approved therapists in club direct sessions for the remainder of his career. It should be noted, as we mentioned in the upcoming piece, that no criminal charges were ever brought against Watson, which does not mean the accusations against

Watson are untrue or that he was exonerated. Watson settled with all but one of the twenty four women who filed civil suits against him. The league and players union have three business days to submit a written appeal, which could be handled by the NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell. In the interim, here's my conversation with Frentis about her extensive

reporting surrounding the allegations against Watson. Please be advised that we discussed some sensitive material in unvarnished detail that might be upsetting for some listeners from Sports Illustrated and I Heart Radio. This is a special bonus reairing of Sports

Illustrated Weekly. We've got breaking news out of the NFL where the Texans quarterback to Shaun Watson has waived his no trade clause for the Cleveland brownsmed last week, Deshaun Watson was traded from the Houston Texans to the Cleveland Browns. According to reports, he signed a five year contract for the most guaranteed money in NFL history, where he will reportedly receive a five year, two hundred and thirty million dollar contract that makes him one of the highest paid

players in the NFL. The Browns also protected Watson even if he faced his punishment by the NFL this season for his alleged behavior. Because his base salary for is just over one million dollars, any for game suspension can only be deducted from that amount, leaving at least two hundred and twenty nine million untouched. Before all that happened, a grand jury in Texas decided not to move forward with criminal charges against Watson in allegations of sexual misconduct

that were made against him by multiple women. But while Watson was not charged in criminal court, there are twenty two civil suits still pending against him, as well as an ongoing NFL investigation that could potentially lead the league to take disciplinary action against the quarter back. Jenny Brentis previously covered this story for Sports Illustrated and has continued to do so for The New York Times. Be advised that what follows contains some graphic descriptions of the accusations.

All right, Jenny, let's start from the beginning. Take us through the allegations against Deshaun Watson. Yeah. John, So, it was almost exactly a year ago that the first allegations surface publicly. A twenty year old licensed massage therapist named Ashley so Leice was the one who filed the first civil suit alleging that during a massage appointment, Deshaun Watson engaged in sexual misconduct order by placing his penis on

her hand during the appointment without her consent. The women who have come forward have said they believed that this was a professional setting. They were going there to do a job they had been trained to do, and he took the appointment in another direction. From that first lawsuit being filed, there was then an avalanche of others that followed. There were women saying this happened to me too. I want to support the first person who came forward to

say you should believe her account. There are twenty two active civil lawsuits right now. There were ten criminal complaints, and of the ten criminal complaints, eight had also filed civil complaints and two had not. So in total, there were twenty four allegations that were brought to either the civil or criminal court system, and they all were very similar accounts, from Watson exposing himself to touching the therapists, in some cases ejaculating on them, and in other cases

A handful of the allegations were sexual assault. All of them had a commonality and that he booked a massage appointment with the massage therapist and then turned the appointment sexual without their consent. Take us through what happened with a grand jury that was impaneled in Texas with regard to the allegations made against the Shawn. Yeah. So, a grand jury in Harris County, Texas, which is where Houston is located, on Friday, March eleven, heard nine criminal cases

against Deshaun Watson. The grand jury proceedings are secretive. They are behind closed doors. We couldn't even see anyone going in and out in these cases the grand jury. Here's testimony or evidence or whatever the prosecutor chooses to bring, and we don't know exactly how the prosecutor presented the case. We do know some elements. We know that some of the video testimony the women who filed criminal complaints had given to police, some of that was played in the hearings.

We know that several of the women were subpoena to potentially provide testimony. They all sat in a room together. Only one of those women was actually called in front of the grand jury. We don't actually even know which charges they considered. We know that the police investigation was zeroing in on indecent assault, which is a misdemeanor in Texas, but three of the ten criminal complaints alleged sexual assault.

But in all, the grand jury returned nine no bills after hearing testimony for about six hours, which meant that they did not believe there was enough evidence to establish probable cause for criminal charges. Jenny, there's this old saying that prosecutors can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich. In this case, the grand jury decided not to move forward. Why do you think they didn't indict

Deshaun Watson. Yeah. I think the corollary to that axiom is that they can indict a ham sandwich if they want to indict a ham sandwich. And I'm not saying that that's the case here, certainly, But I bring that up because the prosecutor does have a lot of influence on how the case is presented to the grand jury, and I think part of the problem with the proceedings being secretive is we don't know exactly how the case was presented to the grand jury. We don't even know

exactly what charges were considered. We don't know all of the information that was presented it. There were people, including prominent media members, who wrongly framed the grand jury's decision not to proceed as an exoneration of Watson, and you have written and spoken about this extensively. Explain why it is that just because no criminal charges were filed against Watson that it doesn't necessarily mean that he's innocent of

the allegations made against him. The grand jury proceedings were one part of the whole process, and for Watson, it was certainly an important moment to not face criminal charges in Harris County. Many teams took that as a green light to proceed with trade conversations. That was the outcome that he was hoping for. But there are still the twenty two civil complaints. My understanding is they are all

still going forward. Just because a grand jury decides that there shouldn't be an indictment here doesn't mean that there was not some form of wrongdoing. If you look at some of the facts of the case that have been put out there, and by facts I mean not just the accounts of the women, but some of the corrobor issa that we've reported on, that information does point to there being some form of wrongdoing. So you mentioned the

pending civil suits against Watson. I think it's important to draw the distinction, explain how those proceedings are different than the standards necessary to prosecute in criminal court. In criminal court, to get a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt is the standard. In civil court, it's the preponderance of the evidence, So the basic legal standard is different. Tony Buzzby, who represents the twenty two plaintiffs, has said one doesn't have any

bearing on the other. Just because the criminal proceedings are over in Harris County doesn't mean that the civil proceedings are over. And there certainly could be some resolution there in which a civil court would decide that the rights of the women were violated in that way. So Watson

had to sit for depositions in the civil suits. Explain your reporting on this, because he invoked his Fifth Amendment right in some of those depositions, but then you've been told that he won't do so moving forward, So why while the grand jury was still considering criminal charges, Deshaun Watson pled the Fifth but once the grand jury decided not to indict him in Harris County, Rusty Harden said he would then start answering questions in the civil suits

moving forward. I think civilly, if a defendant pleads the fifth that may not be helpful to their case. It may actually be hurtful to the resolution of the case if they plead the fifth. The legal strategy and civil court would be to answer questions and try to give some explanation for what's being alleged that you did. But they didn't want to do that until the grand jury

made a decision in Harris County. After the grand jury decided not to proceed, the conversation around Watson, especially in traditional sports media forums, turned really rapidly to who might trade for Watson. It became a football conversation. And there's obviously a lot more going on here than just football. And I'm curious why you think sports fans and media like pivoted so quickly to the football component. Is just that sports fandom and media and social media is sort

of ill equipped to have this nuanced conversation. Sexual violence overall is a topic that you need to have studied up on. You need to have spent time learning how to talk about, how to cover, how to ask people questions. I mean, I've gone to trainings to do that because it's important, right when you're interviewing people who say they've experienced sexual violence, you need to know how to ask questions,

how to get information without retraumatizing. I think from an NFL perspective, because Watson is a talented quarterback, I think they were looking for something that they could point to to say this was a decision that was made that indicates we can go forward with the trade talk. So I think the grand jury making that decision days before free agency opened for NFL teams going after him, they could say, hey, listen, the grand jury decided not to

indict on criminal charges. But also we hear the NFL to talk a lot about how they have a higher standard. Right. That's the whole crux of the Personal Conduct policy, right, is that it doesn't rely on there being criminal charges or civil charges to hold players accountable for behaviors that may have violated the policy. It's asking players who represent teams, who are prominent figures in their community to hold themselves

to a higher standard. And so just because there aren't criminal charges brought, if you're a team, you should be seeking to understand, well, what are your responses to the behaviors alleged and the civil complaints. How do you explain your actions? Are you willing to at least express some contrition for some of the things alleged, or maybe try

to rehabilitate some of the behaviors. Unfortunately, the way this has unfolded, because Watson had the no trade clause for a deal to be executed, the trade conversations became more of a bidding war, and so all the teams that were meeting with him were trying to convince him to waive the no trade clause for their team, and I think that made it a situation where it's probably a lot less likely that he was actually pushed on those questions.

The reality is that the NFL's personal conduct policy is largely a public relations mechanism, and it's used to indicate that we are taking allegations against players or coaches or members of organizations seriously. But I think in this case what we've gotten is a window into the flaws of that process. There are a lot of repercussions to speaking up. Actually,

so these had damage done to her massage studio. But when people speak up, they do so in the hopes that there will be accountability, and that can be difficult to achieve through the criminal system, through the civil court system, and these women are trying that they filed civil lawsuits, they filed criminal complaints, but the lead old system is not suited for survivors, and a lot of paths to getting some form of justice don't result in a clear

statement of guilt or non guilt. It can also be done through the employer, and I think that's where the NFL states that it will examine and handle seriously accounts of misconduct. But the inaction to this point has served to essentially shield Watson from any repercussions whether they have legitimate reasons for not using the commissioners exemple list, while none of those have been explained, and so that's the environment that they've played a role in creating. Yeah, so

much of this remains unresolved to Jenny. As you mentioned, the civil suits are pending. The League has yet to weigh in what happens next for Watson, what's he facing in terms of legal liability and also a possible league suspension. Yeah, so the twenty two lawsuits are still on going. I think that from the plaintift perspective, they have a desire

to start beginning trials for some of these. Of course, the settlement could happen at any time, but my most recent conversation with Tony Buzby, he said there were no renewed settlement conversations. Unlike last year around the trade deadline, when there did seem to be a push for some of these cases to be settled, that doesn't seem to be the case now, so that is going to continue

to go on. I mean, it's a little bit of a surreal circumstance where you have Watson meeting with teams, and in between those meetings with teams, he was also being deposed in those civil cases. And then in terms of the NFL, we don't know exactly the timetable for the league investigation. They have interviewed several of the women

who have come forward. They planned not to interview Watson until the criminal proceedings were completed, so they have not yet interviewed Watson, and so their investigation will not be complete until they do that. It's still expected that there

will be some kind of suspension by the League. Again, the personal conduct policy doesn't stipulate that there needs to be criminal charges for a player to be suspended, but teams seeking to acquire Watson, we're saying this is a long term decision, or we want him as a quarterback for many years, and so we'll withstand the suspension and

then we'll have him for the long term. Jenny, it can be a little too easy, I think for football fans to get lost in the legal ease and the trade talk and the football components, and in so doing overlook the women who made these claims. Can you tell us a little bit more about what they allegedly went through. We published a story entitled a massage Therapist on her session with Deshaun Watson, and what it was was an account from a woman who we called Mary, a pseudonym,

who was not one of the plaintiffs. She had not filed the civil lawsuit, she was not represented by the same lawyer representing all of the other plaintiffs, Tony Busby. We found her on her own and Mary told us an account of her session with Deshaun Watson in fall nineteen, earlier than any of the situations described in the civil lawsuits. Mary told Sports Illustrated that during her appointment with Watson, he engaged in behavior unlike any she had experienced with

the client before. She said that he purposely removed the towel that was covering his private areas. She said that he told her she could touch and move his then exposed penis. She ignored that suggestion. Mary also said that Watson began thrusting his pelvis into the air after he developed an erection, and at one point she noticed what

she believed to be pre ejaculate on Watson's stomach. When you actually talk to a person who has been in a massage room with Deshaun Watson, when she describes to you in detail the behavior she said she experienced, when you then have corroboration of that behavior in the form of other accounts and messages, she sent, it adds strength

to what the women were saying had happened. Ashley Solise described how in real time she was questioning what she was experiencing because it didn't mesh with this public reputation. She told us that she was undermining myself and what was really happening. What was really going on. I thought, this can't be happening. He's a good person. There's no way. After the first story came out with Mary, I received some private messages that were borderline threats, essentially saying, you

better know what you're doing. Why are you ruining this man's reputation? You better be right. There were some vulgar words included, and that was a little bit not surprising, but it's always shaking. Ashley Solise specifically said, I want to rehumanize us and make people remember what this is really about. When we spoke to Mary, she said, the one thing I keep thinking about is he's about to get traded to another place. He would have a whole

new community of massage therapists to target. There's obviously so much swirling around to Shaun Watson, and yet, as we've discussed Jenny, multiple teams were interested in acquiring him, and I'm wondering what that says about those organizations and the risk or the trouble that they're willing to take on in order to acquire a quarterback of his caliber. Yeah, and I think this comes up a lot when we see teams deal with players who have been alleged to

have committed some form of misconduct. They often talk a lot about vetting or doing their due diligence, but oftentimes it's a lot thinner than the team presents it to be. They actually haven't done the work to figure out what is truly going on here. And so in the case of Watson, and when I with Tony Buzby the other night, you know, he said none of the teams that were in the process of meeting with Watson had reached out to Buzzby had asked to talk to the women involved.

And you know, maybe the women wouldn't want to talk to the teams, and that would be totally understandable, but that's a call you should make. I also think those teams should be calling the Houston Police Department speak to the investigators who spent nearly a year on the case. The other important question is the idea of second chances, and we hear that a lot in the NFL, and

I think we all believe in second chances. But are the second chances actually earned and what has been taken on by the person being given the second chance to show that maybe they've grown or they are taking the behaviors that have been alleged head on and working on things like has there been rehabilitation done? And I think we so readily accept oh, yes, everyone should get a second chance without actually asking what work has been done to earn that second chance. You have done really excellent

and important reporting on this, Jenny. Thank you for this, Thanks for the time, thanks for listening, and a reminder to please rate and review us wherever you listen. It helps people find us. Sports Illustrated Weekly is a production of Sports Illustrated and I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows. And for more of Sports Illustrated It's best stories and podcasts,

visit SI dot com. This episode of Sports Illustrated Weekly was produced by Jordan Rizzieri, Jessica Yourmoski, and Isaac Lee, who was also our sound engineer. Our senior producers are Dan Bloom and Harry sword Out. Our executive producers are Scott Brody and me John Gonzalez. Our theme song is by Nolan Schneider. Please be on the lookout for new episodes of Sports Illustrated Weekly hitting your feed this week. Wherever you get your favorite podcasts, Yeah,