Welcome everyone to Spiritist Conversations, a show
Dan Assisi:where we sit down with friends to talk about Spiritist perspectives,
Dan Assisi:about everything in our lives in an informal, unscripted, and unplugged way.
Dan Assisi:I am Dana Sisi, and I am thrilled to be joined here today by my
Dan Assisi:friend Susanna Simons and fla.
Dan Assisi:How are you guys doing?
Suzana Simoes:Hello everyone.
Suzana Simoes:Nice to be here with you again.
Flavio Zanetti:Hello.
Flavio Zanetti:Hello.
Flavio Zanetti:Doing great.
Flavio Zanetti:Dan and Sue.
Flavio Zanetti:Good to see you guys once again.
Flavio Zanetti:So happy to be here.
Dan Assisi:Very happy to be here today.
Dan Assisi:We have a wonderful conversation.
Dan Assisi:Passes.
Dan Assisi:What are spiritist passes is a topic that comes up quite often.
Dan Assisi:It's something that spiritists do frequently.
Dan Assisi:It's very popular, so we figured we might have to take
Dan Assisi:a little bit of a time, right?
Dan Assisi:Just to talk about it and explain what it is and just maybe learn
Dan Assisi:a thing or two with someone who can maybe share some perspectives
Dan Assisi:that we're, might not be used to.
Dan Assisi:You guys ready?
Flavio Zanetti:Yes, let's do this.
Dan Assisi:All right, so let's bring our friend, Dr.
Dan Assisi:Son Sonya, thank you for being here with us today.
Dan Assisi:Hi.
Sonia Doi:Hello.
Sonia Doi:My great friends.
Sonia Doi:It's an honor to be with you in the show and to talk about classes.
Sonia Doi:Yeah, it's exciting.
Dan Assisi:Yep.
Dan Assisi:We're just gonna do what we do, which is dive straight into it.
Dan Assisi:And the conversation today it's gonna be fantastic because
Dan Assisi:it's such an important topic.
Dan Assisi:And we can just dive straight into the conversation.
Dan Assisi:So guys, what are passes?
Dan Assisi:That's a million dollar question.
Dan Assisi:Silence.
Dan Assisi:Good thing we have a guest today.
Dan Assisi:Huh?
Dan Assisi:What do you guys think?
Dan Assisi:And we should, we should, yeah.
Dan Assisi:Let's ask the guest.
Dan Assisi:Let's toss the guest right under the bus.
Dan Assisi:Right.
Dan Assisi:But, uh, before we do that, we should also say Dr.
Dan Assisi:Sonya Doy is the president of the US Spirits Medical Association.
Dan Assisi:And obviously a spiritist too.
Dan Assisi:So we thought it would be great to bring somebody who has a medical background
Dan Assisi:and a spiritist background to explain to us a little bit, not only how or
Dan Assisi:what passes could be, but what is the medical base for the efficacy of passes.
Dan Assisi:Is that something that we just do in the Spirit Center
Dan Assisi:because it's part of Spiritism?
Dan Assisi:Does it actually help us get better?
Dan Assisi:Is there any proof to it?
Dan Assisi:How does that all come about?
Dan Assisi:So we figured it would add that to the mix.
Dan Assisi:Not that our ESTEEM panel of hosts here couldn't potentially talk about
Dan Assisi:this, but I think Susanna Flavi will agree that the three of us probably
Dan Assisi:couldn't go to the depth of knowledge when the medical staff that Sonya
Dan Assisi:could potentially do Absolutely not
Flavio Zanetti:agreed.
Flavio Zanetti:What she's here with us, right?
Flavio Zanetti:Yeah,
Dan Assisi:that's right.
Dan Assisi:That's right.
Dan Assisi:So what are passes?
Sonia Doi:So you want me to dive into it or you guys wanna store?
Sonia Doi:Talk
Suzana Simoes:about,
Flavio Zanetti:imagine if you met somebody in the subway,
Flavio Zanetti:in, let's see, Washington.
Flavio Zanetti:That person told, I asked you what I thought I saw you talk about bass.
Flavio Zanetti:What that thing again?
Flavio Zanetti:30 seconds before the next stop.
Flavio Zanetti:Why would you tell that
Sonia Doi:person?
Sonia Doi:Oh my goodness.
Sonia Doi:Yeah, I think this is it, it's a question that comes to us in the Spirit
Sonia Doi:Center every time there's a new person in and, uh, it's not uncommon that a
Sonia Doi:new person comes to the Spirit Center and has never heard about passes.
Sonia Doi:We, you usually start by defining passes as is defined in Spiritism.
Sonia Doi:And it, it has a kind of scientific meaning to it too because as defined
Sonia Doi:by the, by Francisco, it says that a transfusion of energy that are capable
Sonia Doi:of changing the cellular fields so that energy that is infused to the person.
Sonia Doi:Through their en energy fields are capable of affecting in a good
Sonia Doi:way, the cellular, the tissues, the organs, not only the per spiritual
Sonia Doi:say body, but also the physical body.
Sonia Doi:And that leads to a good, a better mental state and physical state, spiritual state.
Sonia Doi:So there's several different I would say benefit of it in the whole person.
Sonia Doi:Not only the physical person, but in the spiritual component of each one.
Sonia Doi:So that's what I would say the spirit, this approach, the spirit, this
Sonia Doi:explanation of passages we usually relate because a lot of people, and
Sonia Doi:I think you guys have usually hear this what is the difference between
Sonia Doi:passes and reiki or passes and jury or passes and healing hands.
Sonia Doi:So we usually explain that they are all approach similar approaches, and
Sonia Doi:they are now under, they belong to a category of healing processes, healing
Sonia Doi:practices that are under the name biofield therapy or energy medicine.
Sonia Doi:And.
Sonia Doi:And this is, accepted and there's so many papers coming out now with
Sonia Doi:all these different practices.
Sonia Doi:However, with passes, because passes are not well known here in the states, the
Sonia Doi:scientific papers the scientific data for passes are coming from Brazil, from
Sonia Doi:physicians, British physicians in Brazil.
Sonia Doi:But in, anyways, they are very similar in the approach here.
Sonia Doi:So there are nonconventional approaches to therapy that include
Sonia Doi:contact and non-contact practices.
Flavio Zanetti:Oh my goodness.
Dan Assisi:That's so much.
Dan Assisi:Oh, we unpack right there.
Dan Assisi:Yeah, I was break.
Flavio Zanetti:I wasn't break breaking apart.
Flavio Zanetti:Before we get to efficacy, may maybe go back to basics, right?
Flavio Zanetti:Hashtag back to the basics.
Flavio Zanetti:Right?
Suzana Simoes:Yeah, I have, I have just, just like before we even dive
Suzana Simoes:too deep into anything, just something before even your basic there, let me
Suzana Simoes:just ask this to sign into all of you.
Suzana Simoes:What is the closest term in English to passes us, we know, understand, and
Suzana Simoes:practice it in the spiritual center?
Suzana Simoes:What would you guys say?
Dan Assisi:That is a great idea, Susan.
Dan Assisi:I'll take a stab of it.
Dan Assisi:I think that for those who may be unfamiliar with passes, the closest
Dan Assisi:would be a couple of different terms.
Dan Assisi:We have the laying on of hands, right, which are familiar
Dan Assisi:within the Christian tradition.
Dan Assisi:We have reiki that Dr.
Dan Assisi:Doy just mentioned as well.
Dan Assisi:But I think that for me, the laying on of hands is the closest to the
Dan Assisi:Christian and traditional tradition.
Dan Assisi:Traditional tradition is that I said it, you heard it here, guys.
Dan Assisi:You heard it here first.
Flavio Zanetti:Let's go back and edit that afterwards.
Suzana Simoes:Yeah, I, I would agree.
Suzana Simoes:I would agree with that.
Suzana Simoes:And I think that that's important for us to say.
Suzana Simoes:Yeah, I think that's an important point to start because we take for
Suzana Simoes:granted that people have a sense of what we are talking about.
Suzana Simoes:Right.
Suzana Simoes:And this is not an English term.
Suzana Simoes:So start by, you know, putting a term that people can relate more closely.
Suzana Simoes:I think it's a good start.
Dan Assisi:Mm-hmm.
Dan Assisi:Yep.
Dan Assisi:And I think that's a great point that you're bringing Sue, because
Dan Assisi:the name passes comes from the passing of hands over mm-hmm.
Dan Assisi:A person, right?
Dan Assisi:Right.
Dan Assisi:So if you were to walk into a spiritist group, this is something that we
Dan Assisi:generally do with spiritist groups.
Dan Assisi:Sometimes we do at homes with our families too.
Dan Assisi:It's this laying on of hands where in the spiritist groups,
Dan Assisi:we're not touching people.
Dan Assisi:There's no contact there generally.
Dan Assisi:And we are basically sending those good energies that Dr.
Dan Assisi:Sonya Doy talked about.
Dan Assisi:And I'm gonna call her Sonya.
Dan Assisi:Is that okay, Sonya?
Dan Assisi:That, that's, otherwise I'm gonna be Dr.
Dan Assisi:Do Dr.
Dan Assisi:Sonia Doy please.
Dan Assisi:Let's
Sonia Doi:here, please call me Sonya.
Sonia Doi:I'm sorry,
Dan Assisi:go ahead now.
Dan Assisi:Go ahead.
Dan Assisi:I cut you off.
Sonia Doi:Yeah I completely agree with that.
Sonia Doi:And here in these states, uh, there's a practice of called Therapeutic Touch
Sonia Doi:that is used by many nurses in different hospitals, and they are not particularly
Sonia Doi:related to any religion, although they might be calling it spiritual, but they
Sonia Doi:are more like practices of compassion and love and peace and intent of healing.
Sonia Doi:So they're known as healing practices and several hospitals use that as
Sonia Doi:healing hands or therapeutic search.
Sonia Doi:And so this is well known.
Sonia Doi:And as you mentioned here, Reiki is also among all the other, is a little
Sonia Doi:different, but is also a, another practice that belongs to the energy medicine.
Dan Assisi:Great point.
Dan Assisi:So when you hear, when I was gonna say really quickly I'm just gonna
Dan Assisi:talk over a flag cuz that's what I do.
Dan Assisi:I think that, you know, from now on, whenever you hear the word passes
Dan Assisi:here, you know that we're talking about this laying on of hands.
Dan Assisi:Mm-hmm.
Dan Assisi:That we just basically translated into the passes you know, a passing of hand.
Dan Assisi:They become passes and you might hear some Brazilian is called Pai.
Dan Assisi:Right.
Dan Assisi:Mm-hmm.
Dan Assisi:Which is the Brazilian term, but it's basically the passes the passing of
Dan Assisi:hands over, which is actually a tradition that on the western world goes back to
Dan Assisi:Maser too, and magnetism and so forth.
Dan Assisi:And even before, we're gonna park that aside and we're gonna bring it to Flavi
Dan Assisi:because I have also interrupted him.
Dan Assisi:Flavio.
Dan Assisi:It's okay.
Dan Assisi:Welcome
Flavio Zanetti:to the club.
Flavio Zanetti:I was gonna ask us to,
Dan Assisi:I was say, just kidding, just kidding.
Dan Assisi:Differences
Flavio Zanetti:between, as we
Flavio Zanetti:Jesus started 2000 years,
Dan Assisi:ah, you know, that could be a whole different program.
Dan Assisi:But I love that.
Dan Assisi:But it's, I think that we go for simplicity.
Dan Assisi:What do you think, Sue?
Dan Assisi:I think that's, they're not very un, un unrelated.
Suzana Simoes:No.
Suzana Simoes:And in fact, I think that we draw a.
Suzana Simoes:You know, our practices and Jesus is our primary reference.
Suzana Simoes:So when we think about a number of topics we go back to the way that
Suzana Simoes:Jesus did and how he practiced.
Suzana Simoes:Because he used the greatest of all doctors, the highest of
Suzana Simoes:all therapists and the master.
Suzana Simoes:So he is for us this higher reference.
Suzana Simoes:And so he did that.
Suzana Simoes:He taught us by precisely laying on his hands over the sick and healing.
Suzana Simoes:And we can get, a little deeper here and say, getting into issues
Suzana Simoes:like, did he need to do that or not?
Suzana Simoes:But I don't think it's the point of today, but he's our reference.
Suzana Simoes:And so we.
Suzana Simoes:We understand that we are all energy and that love is, can be moved, can
Suzana Simoes:be transmitted in the form of energy.
Suzana Simoes:And so the same way he did, we seek to do the same with our humble contribution.
Suzana Simoes:But I think that's as I said, it's the reference, it's the
Suzana Simoes:starting point for all of us
Dan Assisi:and that's great and starting point.
Dan Assisi:Yeah, I think it's a great perspective, Sue.
Dan Assisi:And I think that is the way I would frame this up too, like the end too
Dan Assisi:is the way we use that in Spiritism is to help us rebalance and heal.
Dan Assisi:Right.
Dan Assisi:So it's not uncommon for you if you go to a spiritist group
Dan Assisi:to have a talk, an activity.
Dan Assisi:And some of our activities will have a moment of passes at the end where folks
Dan Assisi:will be invited to either stand, you know, stay in the chair if they want to
Dan Assisi:receive the passes, or maybe they will be taken to a passes chamber, like a little
Dan Assisi:room, which quieter for reflection too.
Dan Assisi:And we're gonna have somebody, some volunteers come and do this
Dan Assisi:laying on our hands for them while they pray and they reflect.
Dan Assisi:And the idea is that it will help us heal, right?
Dan Assisi:Will help us heal emotionally, physically intellectually,
Dan Assisi:whatever way you wanna call it.
Dan Assisi:And we find that it's a constant practice in our spirits groups.
Dan Assisi:And the reason why is for the reasons that Susanna and Flavia just brought
Dan Assisi:to us, which is he hearkens back to the beginnings of Christianity
Dan Assisi:and this idea of healing, right?
Dan Assisi:But what I think is really great if you guys are ready, is that there's actually.
Dan Assisi:Some physical, a, there's a physical aspect to it that can be validated or
Dan Assisi:thought of that, you know, which is really fascinating for those of us who
Dan Assisi:want to obviously focus on the morals, but can also gain some understanding
Dan Assisi:and some value from understanding the physics and the medicinal part of it.
Sonia Doi:I think I can say something here what, uh,
Sonia Doi:Susanna brought is very true.
Sonia Doi:We, you know, Jesus is our model.
Sonia Doi:He used that in healing and But we have now learned even more.
Sonia Doi:We are not just doing that based on our faith, but we are doing that
Sonia Doi:because we have learned about it.
Sonia Doi:We have learned about the science behind it.
Sonia Doi:You know, k already talked about the energy.
Sonia Doi:And when we learned about the prayer spirit and, and the energy that
Sonia Doi:we all have in in, in every bit of the inner the, all the layers of
Sonia Doi:the peri spirit, the energy that circulates through it, and that can
Sonia Doi:be transmitted through our thoughts.
Sonia Doi:Remembering that our thoughts is the base for all this, that focus, that channels
Sonia Doi:all this energy towards something.
Sonia Doi:And in this case, if we focus our thoughts, directing our energy
Sonia Doi:into healing, into someone's that, that, uh, it, it's what basically
Sonia Doi:is transmitted through passes.
Sonia Doi:We also know that in the spirit passes, we are conveying, we are
Sonia Doi:channeling our own magnetic energy.
Sonia Doi:But we are actually the conveying ly the energy from the higher spirits
Sonia Doi:that are channeled through us with with our magnetic energy towards
Sonia Doi:the person who is receiving passes.
Sonia Doi:In, I, I just wanna bring this in, in the mediums book, when Ette talks about the
Sonia Doi:healing mediums, he mentions that it's not necessary that a person is a spiritist or
Sonia Doi:even knows about the spirits, but if the person has a good intention of doing good
Sonia Doi:for someone else, this person is always helped assisted by benefactor spirits.
Sonia Doi:So, This empowers the magnetic energy of that person.
Sonia Doi:So this is to say we are not better than Reiki or Healing Hands or any
Sonia Doi:other thing because if the person has a good intention, they are doing good.
Sonia Doi:Anyways I also want to relate a little bit to the biofield.
Sonia Doi:If you, if I can go into that now or if you have any other
Sonia Doi:comments before I go into that.
Dan Assisi:Yeah, I think we would love to do, cuz you know what the
Dan Assisi:question that is in my mind is how do you, how do we know that there
Dan Assisi:is an effectiveness there, right?
Dan Assisi:So I think that from a faith perspective we grasp it, but you have talked about
Dan Assisi:the actual measurable or more generally accepted impact of healing in general
Dan Assisi:as it becomes more mainstream, right?
Dan Assisi:As we open ourselves.
Dan Assisi:So how do, how do we know how that works and how does it work?
Suzana Simoes:And let me just ask, um, add another question on top of Daniels
Suzana Simoes:and, and after you share that also tell us how is it being used in hospitals
Suzana Simoes:if it, if it has, and if that is part of the research that's being done.
Sonia Doi:In some hospitals, they allow people to do reiki mm-hmm.
Sonia Doi:Because Reiki is more, uh, well known.
Sonia Doi:As I mentioned, therapeutic touch is well used in several hospitals here
Sonia Doi:in, in, in the DC DC area that I know.
Sonia Doi:But among the other practices I know that reiki has been used in several
Sonia Doi:hospitals and it's kinda allowed in as a practice, as a non-conventional practice.
Sonia Doi:Did I answer that, Sue?
Suzana Simoes:Yeah, absolutely.
Suzana Simoes:Okay.
Suzana Simoes:And sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you.
Suzana Simoes:You're going to the biofield?
Suzana Simoes:Mm-hmm.
Sonia Doi:Yeah, no, the biofield.
Sonia Doi:I just wanna mention that in 1932 a doctor from the Yale University
Sonia Doi:called Harold Saxton or did some experiments, some studies and show
Sonia Doi:that every living being has an kind of field of energy around them.
Sonia Doi:Being that plant, an animal or human being.
Sonia Doi:So just to start with that and that kind of field of energy that, that he showed,
Sonia Doi:he has shown since you know, his first studies have been for some time forgotten
Sonia Doi:by your physicians and researchers.
Sonia Doi:But now with more recent studies, it has surfaced again.
Sonia Doi:And that's how we interact.
Sonia Doi:Our bio viewed energy interacts with someone else's by afu energy.
Sonia Doi:And that's how with our intention, we can.
Sonia Doi:Actually transfer the energy through our thoughts, through our
Sonia Doi:intention to the person that is being receiving passes or receiving the bio
Sonia Doi:therapy, whatever that therapy is.
Sonia Doi:So we have some data that was published by the Brazilian doctors, and I think
Sonia Doi:it's interesting that I would like to show maybe three slides just to,
Sonia Doi:to make the connection on the, make the explanation a little easier.
Sonia Doi:One of the papers, one of the studies was done by By a group of physicians
Sonia Doi:in Brazil with newborn babies.
Sonia Doi:These newborn babies were in the I C U or in the hospital.
Sonia Doi:They were preterm newborns, so that's why they were in a hospital.
Sonia Doi:And of course, these babies were under stress.
Sonia Doi:And these group of um, researchers divided the babies into two groups.
Sonia Doi:There were only about 13, uh, babies in each group, and one group was
Sonia Doi:assisted by spiritist, uh, people who were trained in spirited centers.
Sonia Doi:So they knew how to apply passes.
Sonia Doi:The other group was assisted by people who were not com, were not trained, uh,
Sonia Doi:didn't know about passes in any other of these healing therapies, however,
Sonia Doi:they were instructed to have to be there with their hands on the babies.
Sonia Doi:15 centimeters above distant from the babies with good intention.
Sonia Doi:Or healing intention.
Sonia Doi:So both groups had healing intention, but one group was people who were
Sonia Doi:trained in this practice centers at least two years of training.
Sonia Doi:And they, they did some measurements.
Sonia Doi:The group, both groups of babies received this energy for 10 minutes
Sonia Doi:each time during three consecutive days.
Sonia Doi:And the researchers measured several things, measured salivary cortisol,
Sonia Doi:which is the hormone stress hormone.
Sonia Doi:They measure the heart rate, respiratory frequency oxygen saturation, and the
Sonia Doi:duration of stay in the hospital.
Sonia Doi:And all the measurements show an improvement in the group that was
Sonia Doi:assisted by Spirit Passagers compared to the group that were assisted
Sonia Doi:by non practitioners of spiritism.
Sonia Doi:But the one measurement that was significantly, statistically significant
Sonia Doi:different was the respiratory rate.
Sonia Doi:So in the graph, the group that was not was shown in blue in this graph
Sonia Doi:that was received just intention.
Sonia Doi:But there were the control, considered the control group, meaning there were
Sonia Doi:no No spiritists versus the one that were spiritists in, shown in red here.
Sonia Doi:So we see a significant decrease in the respiratory rate.
Sonia Doi:So as you know, respiratory rate increases when we are stressed out, right?
Sonia Doi:Stress, we breathe more frequently.
Sonia Doi:The frequency increases and you see the group of babies that were
Sonia Doi:received passes, spirits passes had lower and lower and lower.
Sonia Doi:Respiratory rate.
Sonia Doi:So that kind of implied a decrease in stress of these babies.
Dan Assisi:Mm-hmm.
Dan Assisi:Fascinating soya.
Dan Assisi:So let's just make sure I got this right.
Dan Assisi:So basically this research was done with a group of babies in a hospital
Dan Assisi:that we're in a delicate situation ish.
Dan Assisi:Right.
Dan Assisi:Or more delicate I should say.
Dan Assisi:And it, they were divided into three different groups.
Dan Assisi:Two babies who?
Dan Assisi:Two.
Dan Assisi:Two, okay.
Dan Assisi:Got it.
Dan Assisi:So there, there was not one that did not receive any treatment
Sonia Doi:at all.
Sonia Doi:Right.
Sonia Doi:I was going to talk about this in a minute.
Sonia Doi:Yeah.
Dan Assisi:Mm-hmm.
Dan Assisi:So, sorry.
Dan Assisi:So go ahead cuz I, I totally run you over there.
Sonia Doi:No, no, no.
Sonia Doi:I think it's good that you brought just what I was going to say now.
Sonia Doi:Mm-hmm.
Sonia Doi:One criticism of this, uh, this work is that there was no, a third group,
Sonia Doi:the third group should be babies who had not received any treatment at all.
Dan Assisi:Gotcha.
Dan Assisi:Mm-hmm.
Sonia Doi:So here we had one with Spiritist passes, one with just
Sonia Doi:intention with no spiritist, uh, passes.
Sonia Doi:But we didn't have a group that didn't receive any treatment at all.
Dan Assisi:But yet, yet, there was statistical significance.
Dan Assisi:Right.
Dan Assisi:And that means that the Ians run some sort of formula and tell you,
Dan Assisi:yeah, these changes are not random.
Dan Assisi:They are significant
Sonia Doi:exactly for respiratory rate.
Sonia Doi:Mm-hmm.
Sonia Doi:The other ones, there was a trend to decrease in heart rate, tend to
Sonia Doi:decrease in cortisone levels and saturation and duration in the hospital.
Sonia Doi:So they, they were released earlier, however, by statistic methods they
Sonia Doi:were not significant, meaning the difference was not that great.
Sonia Doi:Mm-hmm.
Sonia Doi:And a comment that I had here is that the group that did not receive
Sonia Doi:spirit test passes had people who were, had good intentions.
Sonia Doi:They were vibrating healing for these patients.
Sonia Doi:Mm-hmm.
Sonia Doi:So apparently, you know, the spiritist passes because maybe because they were
Sonia Doi:more concentrated or any other reason there was a little better results.
Sonia Doi:But this work, although there is a criticism on the missing
Sonia Doi:of a real control group and the other thing, they're very small.
Sonia Doi:Uh, the number of patients is very small.
Sonia Doi:It's only 13.
Sonia Doi:So this for.
Sonia Doi:For a trial, clinical trial, this is an extremely small number of patients.
Sonia Doi:So it is actually no wonder we, we did not achieve statistical significance.
Sonia Doi:We usually, we need a lot more much higher number.
Sonia Doi:But anyways, one I'll say downside is that the lack of a real control group.
Sonia Doi:But on the other hand, this is a good study because these were premature babies.
Sonia Doi:They had no conscience of what's going on.
Sonia Doi:So you take away the bias of, okay, I am, you know, conscious consciously.
Sonia Doi:Because I know that I'm receiving passes my mind is influencing
Sonia Doi:the results, the placebo.
Sonia Doi:So I think that decreases the bias of that Yeah.
Sonia Doi:The placebo effect.
Flavio Zanetti:Fascinating.
Flavio Zanetti:Yeah.
Flavio Zanetti:That, that's fascinating cuz it really, it really showcases the efficacy of passes.
Flavio Zanetti:Exactly.
Flavio Zanetti:Although in a small, you know, sampling rate, sampling, you know, numbers really,
Flavio Zanetti:you know, again it's, it's everywhere.
Flavio Zanetti:When we look at efficacy, this is a great study, at least you
Flavio Zanetti:know, the way I look at it.
Flavio Zanetti:Right?
Dan Assisi:Yeah.
Dan Assisi:And I like that we are looking at it too.
Dan Assisi:And obviously there's way more research to be done.
Dan Assisi:And the question also, Comes up are people willing to do this research?
Dan Assisi:Right?
Dan Assisi:Because sometimes it's hard to fund research and will the credibility of the
Dan Assisi:researcher take a hit because it's trying to measure things that are spiritual.
Dan Assisi:All these things come into play, but I just love that we are
Dan Assisi:beginning to really dive deeper and try to prove scientifically
Dan Assisi:whether it has an impact or not.
Dan Assisi:And if it doesn't have an impact, scientifically, we've gotta own up
Dan Assisi:and say, all right, maybe it's just a placebo effect psychologically
Dan Assisi:that makes us feel better.
Dan Assisi:But it looks like if I'm reading this right, Sonya, that we are beginning
Dan Assisi:to see that there is actual evidence that's pointing us to the fact that
Dan Assisi:there is a physical improvement.
Dan Assisi:On those who receive passes.
Sonia Doi:Exactly.
Sonia Doi:As you mentioned this study is a small study.
Sonia Doi:It needs, you would need a, a.
Sonia Doi:Real control group, but as you also mentioned, it's very difficult to be to
Sonia Doi:have funding for this type of research.
Sonia Doi:And it's also very difficult that a hospital would allow you
Sonia Doi:to do this type of research.
Sonia Doi:Yeah, we need more studies.
Sonia Doi:Uh, it's interesting that here in the States, if you look at the medical
Sonia Doi:literature, you find a lot more studies that have done, have been
Sonia Doi:done with reiki, for example, because.
Sonia Doi:People know Reiki better, and because Reiki has been used in hospitals already,
Sonia Doi:so there it's a little easier to do that.
Sonia Doi:So we are still trying to bring more awareness about Spiritism
Sonia Doi:and Spiritist passes to say, okay, here's the analogy, and it's similar.
Sonia Doi:So why we cannot do more studies with faces.
Sonia Doi:Mm-hmm.
Dan Assisi:So, so
Flavio Zanetti:Sonia, I wanted to maybe if I'm, uh, if I'm seeing this for the
Flavio Zanetti:first time, right back to research why, what is so special about spirits passages?
Flavio Zanetti:Because if the other group were also was also, showing or their best, efforts,
Flavio Zanetti:their best intentions, but the group that had training had better results.
Flavio Zanetti:What makes, you know, what's the difference in.
Sonia Doi:I cannot actually answer that.
Sonia Doi:With certainty I can only make assumptions here.
Sonia Doi:And one assumption, because of course, this, to answer that we should do
Sonia Doi:some kind of measurable research to answer that, but my thoughts
Sonia Doi:are I have two thoughts about it.
Sonia Doi:One is that People who were trained as a spiritists they're used to do this.
Sonia Doi:They are focused, they pray, and they, they prepare themselves before they have
Sonia Doi:a good connection with the spirit world.
Sonia Doi:And maybe that has helped in, in, in the mm-hmm.
Sonia Doi:Result in the final result.
Sonia Doi:The other thing is that maybe the group that were only working with
Sonia Doi:intention was not so focused, you know, I have intention, but yeah, they were
Sonia Doi:thinking about something else and.
Sonia Doi:We know that in Spiritism when we do that, we are really
Sonia Doi:focused on what we are doing.
Sonia Doi:We are connected, we are praying and so forth, so on.
Sonia Doi:Another thing that I have, um, to say about that is that they used 10 minutes
Sonia Doi:for the practice in the spirit centers.
Sonia Doi:We don't do 10 minutes.
Sonia Doi:We usually, you know, it's one to two minutes, so 10 minutes is a lot longer.
Sonia Doi:So I wonder if the person who were not.
Sonia Doi:Spirit practitioners they, you know, kind of their thoughts
Sonia Doi:wondered about on other things
Dan Assisi:during, or even if there were, even if there
Dan Assisi:were spiritist practitioners.
Dan Assisi:I was gonna say that, yeah.
Dan Assisi:Right.
Dan Assisi:To hold that intention for 10 minutes, like a pure intention.
Dan Assisi:And it's really, really,
Suzana Simoes:really hard.
Suzana Simoes:Really hard.
Suzana Simoes:Yeah.
Suzana Simoes:I have, I have a joke sometimes at the center say, people don't make these long
Suzana Simoes:prayers cause you're gonna lose half of the audience in the middle of the way.
Suzana Simoes:Cause we have a difficult time staying, you know, put
Suzana Simoes:without thoughts for a minute.
Dan Assisi:Can we?
Dan Assisi:Yeah.
Dan Assisi:Can we characters, can we
Flavio Zanetti:person to or whoever.
Flavio Zanetti:Wants to become a pass giver.
Flavio Zanetti:So if I enter a, a spirit center, hey, why, what are the credentials of the
Flavio Zanetti:individual that's giving me passes?
Dan Assisi:Oh, I love that flag.
Dan Assisi:That's a great point.
Dan Assisi:Yeah.
Dan Assisi:So what's the credential, right?
Dan Assisi:Do you have to go to credentialing schools and get the credential?
Dan Assisi:A credential, pass giver?
Dan Assisi:No.
Dan Assisi:I think that not in our practice, everybody can do it.
Dan Assisi:That's the beautiful thing too.
Dan Assisi:Like, and we've sort of seen this also with mothers, for instance, right?
Dan Assisi:Where they, their kids get hurt sometimes they just kiss their kid,
Dan Assisi:they put their hand, they even just blow over their booboos, right?
Dan Assisi:And there's just different ways or different modalities of doing that
Dan Assisi:intentional transfusion of energy that, that Sonya talked about.
Dan Assisi:But in the Spiritist group, some groups will have a sort of preparation approach.
Dan Assisi:And I think I see Susanna sort of agreeing with me there, right?
Dan Assisi:Sue?
Dan Assisi:I.
Suzana Simoes:Yeah, I was I was agreeing with your previous thought
Suzana Simoes:as well, which I was going to say.
Suzana Simoes:Um, what you're talking about with the mothers takes us to a
Suzana Simoes:different angle, which is passes outside of the spiritual center.
Suzana Simoes:Which, I think here we, we seek to talk about, spiritual things, but always bring
Suzana Simoes:to, what does that mean on a day-to-day?
Suzana Simoes:Maybe not everybody can make to the spiritual center.
Suzana Simoes:Right?
Suzana Simoes:So, so that means I cannot receive it.
Suzana Simoes:So that's where my mind went.
Suzana Simoes:Yeah, with with a mother, with a hug, with a friend, any, an intentional
Suzana Simoes:transfusion of energy, the difference is that when you are at the spiritual center,
Suzana Simoes:right, so we have a, the environment, which is an environment of prayer.
Suzana Simoes:Of people enter and usually they invited to elevate their vibratory
Suzana Simoes:frequency by listening to uh, uplifting talk, invited to, to do their prayers,
Suzana Simoes:to connect with the higher source.
Suzana Simoes:So we really creates a vibratory environment that
Suzana Simoes:is very beneficial in itself.
Suzana Simoes:And when the person is in that environment and open himself with trust, with
Suzana Simoes:surrender, the person also creates optimal circumstances to receive.
Suzana Simoes:So that is another aspect there is the aspect of the past operation
Flavio Zanetti:to do its operation
Suzana Simoes:to receive, yeah.
Suzana Simoes:Right.
Suzana Simoes:That needs to, you know, it's helpful if you have an understanding.
Suzana Simoes:I mean, Sonia, um, early on was talking about pure spirit,
Suzana Simoes:for example, which is the.
Suzana Simoes:Spiritual body.
Suzana Simoes:The energetic body.
Suzana Simoes:So if you have a minimal understanding about it's helpful if you have an
Suzana Simoes:understanding that we can't, like we have mentioned here, manipulate the
Suzana Simoes:fluids or the energy with the power of our thoughts, that's also helpful.
Suzana Simoes:So there are some basic concepts that once we know them, we can become more effective
Suzana Simoes:practitioners, just like anything else.
Suzana Simoes:Mm-hmm.
Suzana Simoes:Right.
Suzana Simoes:And same thing for the person who is receiving.
Suzana Simoes:If you want the sun to enter your house, you have to open the windows the curtains.
Suzana Simoes:So that's an analogy that I like to always use if you sit there, but
Suzana Simoes:your mind is caught up in distrust.
Suzana Simoes:Suspicion or whatever that might be, or elsewhere, nowhere to be found.
Suzana Simoes:Your body's there, but your, your mind isn't.
Suzana Simoes:Then similarly, You are not really putting yourself in that
Suzana Simoes:ideal position to, to receive.
Dan Assisi:Yeah, and that's a great point too, Sue, because at the Spiritist
Dan Assisi:group to go back to the, to that piece, like can anyone just walk in and do it?
Dan Assisi:Generally what Spiritist groups will have, they will have their own training
Dan Assisi:program, right, where they will help people prepare to do their best in
Dan Assisi:obviously giving of themselves in the, in those moments, and will ask for people
Dan Assisi:to make a commitment that in that day, in that moment those will sometimes
Dan Assisi:call passes or past givers are going to commit to make sure that they, have done
Dan Assisi:a good job of concentrating, of having a great day so that they don't go in there.
Dan Assisi:With all their worries and not being able to be a good channel
Dan Assisi:from those energies from above.
Dan Assisi:Right?
Dan Assisi:So absolutely free too.
Dan Assisi:I think we should mention this too, right?
Dan Assisi:Yeah.
Dan Assisi:All of these practices always free at spirit as groups too.
Dan Assisi:If you are looking to receive passes or I think that they could help you
Dan Assisi:establish yourself a little bit.
Dan Assisi:In general, it's always a good idea to go to a spiritist group and generally
Dan Assisi:the passes are done after a talk or an inspiring moment because it helps you
Dan Assisi:concentrate in getting to the vibratory range that Susanna was talking about.
Dan Assisi:So that's why passes are generally done at the end of activities because
Dan Assisi:by then the past receiver has already began to open him or herself to those
Dan Assisi:good messages, uc influences, which means it's more likely that the effect
Dan Assisi:of the passes are going to take hold.
Dan Assisi:Right.
Dan Assisi:So fantastic.
Dan Assisi:So, Sonya, are there other pieces of research or efforts out there that
Suzana Simoes:Yeah.
Suzana Simoes:Was curious about?
Suzana Simoes:I was curious about that.
Suzana Simoes:I love, I love hearing about the first one, so it's like, is there another one?
Sonia Doi:Yeah, there's a actually this group that, that did the work with babies
Sonia Doi:did, I think they published another.
Sonia Doi:Two, three papers, but I only brought one more from them.
Sonia Doi:And then another one that is interesting too.
Sonia Doi:So the next one is they looked at people who were hospitalized for
Sonia Doi:in a cardiac cardiovascular ward.
Sonia Doi:And they actually selected patients that had depression anxiety.
Sonia Doi:And they did there were 41 patients, they divided in three groups.
Sonia Doi:Now they have one group which is a control didn't receive any therapy at all.
Sonia Doi:One group that were assisted by spirit trainees and trained people, and
Sonia Doi:the other one with just intention.
Sonia Doi:Again, here, there was a group that Were not trained in spirit passes,
Sonia Doi:but they were there with their hands on for 10 minutes, three days, and
Sonia Doi:with intention, healing intention.
Sonia Doi:So in this group, they also measured several things.
Sonia Doi:They measure depression, muscle tension, wellbeing, and like heart rate,
Sonia Doi:pain intensity and so forth, so on.
Sonia Doi:And again, there was some differences in both groups.
Sonia Doi:Both groups had improvements, both meaning the spiritist passes and
Sonia Doi:the other that were not spiritist, but received some healing intention.
Sonia Doi:Both groups had.
Sonia Doi:Improvement in all the things that were measured against the group
Sonia Doi:that didn't receive anything, that the real control group.
Sonia Doi:However, the the most striking difference, the most significant
Sonia Doi:difference was in anxiety and depression.
Sonia Doi:This is measured by some kind of score scoring system.
Sonia Doi:So there, there is a systematic scoring system that is acceptable
Sonia Doi:for publications and studies.
Sonia Doi:So they used a specific scoring system to measure anxiety and to
Sonia Doi:measure depression prior to and after three days of of treatment.
Sonia Doi:And the.
Sonia Doi:When they measure anxiety, when they measure depression, these
Sonia Doi:scores were basically the same before and after the procedure,
Sonia Doi:after the three days of treatment.
Sonia Doi:There was no difference whatsoever in the group that received the
Sonia Doi:spirit test passes, which in this slide, uh, has a red mark around.
Sonia Doi:Yeah.
Sonia Doi:We see a marked difference.
Sonia Doi:So for example the score was 9.6.
Sonia Doi:Prior to the passes and after the, after three days of passes,
Sonia Doi:it dropped to 3.7, so it was a big drop in the score of anxiety.
Sonia Doi:The group that were received only the, the treatment with intention but was not split
Sonia Doi:as passes, also didn't have any change.
Sonia Doi:It was like the control group.
Sonia Doi:It started with 7.9 and ended af after three days.
Sonia Doi:The score was still 7.9 in the measurement of depression.
Sonia Doi:The control group without treatment didn't have any change comparing
Sonia Doi:previous treatment, and after three days of treatment, it was 7.8 7.9.
Sonia Doi:The group that received only intentional treatment, no passes, also didn't have
Sonia Doi:change after three days of treatment.
Sonia Doi:Started with 6.8 and went to 6.3.
Sonia Doi:Mm-hmm.
Sonia Doi:However, the group that received SP test passes, it started with a score of six
Sonia Doi:on depression rate and dropped to 4.2.
Sonia Doi:So the highest drop, the highest effect was an anxiety, which dropped
Sonia Doi:from nine to 3.7, but both anxiety and depression was improved significantly.
Sonia Doi:So this is, this is also another, you know, beautiful work on how this.
Sonia Doi:How we can see the effect of the spirit passes.
Sonia Doi:And although there was intention in the other group, for some
Sonia Doi:reason here, we didn't see any,
Sonia Doi:any improvement changes.
Flavio Zanetti:Now.
Flavio Zanetti:Now let me ask a curveball question.
Flavio Zanetti:We're in this world that everything is hybrid.
Flavio Zanetti:We're, we're gathering here through, through technology.
Flavio Zanetti:Can I like, do passes via zoom or via a virtual meeting?
Flavio Zanetti:Is it even possible to have passes remote?
Suzana Simoes:What do you guys think?
Suzana Simoes:It's
Sonia Doi:a great question, FLA.
Sonia Doi:Great question.
Sonia Doi:You know why?
Sonia Doi:Because we know that we can do distant healing.
Sonia Doi:We can do that.
Sonia Doi:We can pray for someone that's far from here.
Sonia Doi:And, at some point this was only done in Berkeley and people saying, yeah,
Sonia Doi:you know, I got better or something.
Sonia Doi:But there's a group in Portugal, uh, actually they were not
Sonia Doi:even in, in medical sciences.
Sonia Doi:They are in engineering school, and they designed a work and I, I don't
Sonia Doi:have much time to talk about that today, but it's a great, interesting work.
Sonia Doi:They had people who were trained in reiki and people who were trained in
Sonia Doi:therapeutic touch, uh, in different parts of the world, in Portugal, in Switzerland,
Sonia Doi:in I forgot different countries.
Sonia Doi:So what they do, they put.
Sonia Doi:Water about two bottles of water in their laboratory.
Sonia Doi:In Portugal.
Sonia Doi:Portugal in the School of Engineering.
Sonia Doi:They took a picture of that.
Sonia Doi:I'm Synthes, you know, summarizing that.
Sonia Doi:It's a little more complex.
Sonia Doi:But they took a picture of that, sent through email to all these practitioners
Sonia Doi:and asked, in this day and this day, you are going to be doing a healing intention.
Sonia Doi:You're gonna be praying sending healing thoughts to this bottle of water labeled
Sonia Doi:A, for example, not to the bottle label B, just to the bottle label A
Sonia Doi:and you do this for 10 minutes or so.
Sonia Doi:So they had people all over the world right doing this.
Sonia Doi:Nobody was local.
Sonia Doi:Then the water was tested for several thanks for.
Sonia Doi:Chemical properties for the physical properties.
Sonia Doi:And they also had an instrument that I don't recall now the name, but they
Sonia Doi:had an instrument at that place in the room to measure, uh, to measure energy.
Sonia Doi:Okay.
Sonia Doi:So it was incredible.
Sonia Doi:I can send you then the, the link to this.
Sonia Doi:Mm-hmm.
Sonia Doi:It this work, but Sure.
Sonia Doi:Can you
Suzana Simoes:share?
Suzana Simoes:Yeah.
Suzana Simoes:Afterwards,
Sonia Doi:it was very interesting because they showed that not only there
Sonia Doi:were improvement on or changes in the physical and physical chemistry of
Sonia Doi:the molecules of water in the bottle that people were direct to send their
Sonia Doi:thoughts to the other bottle was closed to it, but was not the one that people
Sonia Doi:should direct their, their thoughts to.
Sonia Doi:There were some changes there because it was close to it, but not as much as on the
Sonia Doi:bottle that they were asked to pray for.
Sonia Doi:The other interesting thing is that, The level of energy increased
Sonia Doi:dramatically from the first day when they started praying four up to the
Sonia Doi:third day and persisted for 15 days.
Sonia Doi:It was dropping gradually and, but the level of energy, that residual
Sonia Doi:energy was there for about 15 days, which for me was amazing.
Sonia Doi:And I'm thinking, yes, imagine our spirit centers where we
Sonia Doi:are praying every so often.
Sonia Doi:How much energy is accumulating there and is maintained and remains there.
Sonia Doi:So this work not only shows the effect distance, but also the level
Sonia Doi:of energy that persists after a while.
Dan Assisi:And that's easy to relate to from a popular perspective
Dan Assisi:because it's about the atmosphere or shall we say the vibe, right?
Dan Assisi:Mm-hmm.
Dan Assisi:So we're talking about good vibes here, right?
Dan Assisi:So when you go into an environment that has that healthy mental attitude, in
Dan Assisi:this case spiritual attitude, sometimes people can feel the vibe, right?
Dan Assisi:You can feel that, that that's a different environment, that it feels good, it
Dan Assisi:feels relaxing, and it's lovely to see the validation to that coming through
Dan Assisi:science and making us understand that.
Dan Assisi:So it's lovely to see that these energies can travel far distances
Dan Assisi:cuz they're so subtle, right?
Dan Assisi:Absolutely.
Dan Assisi:And it's fascinating, fascinating.
Sonia Doi:If you, if you're interested enough, there is
Sonia Doi:one more work, scientific work
Dan Assisi:now with
Suzana Simoes:bacteria.
Sonia Doi:That's great.
Sonia Doi:You know, we are, we're talking about the effects on people, but
Sonia Doi:look at this, this is bacteria.
Dan Assisi:Bacteria are future people too, people.
Flavio Zanetti:Talk bacteria.
Suzana Simoes:That's funny.
Sonia Doi:They don't have a brain.
Sonia Doi:But anyways, this was a, a, an incredible work of Dr.
Sonia Doi:Jean Carlo Lu in Brazil.
Sonia Doi:He's one of the most spirits scientists that publishes in the world.
Sonia Doi:And this is a very interesting, but I'm going to just summarize.
Sonia Doi:So what he did, he did bacteria culture and he divided in actually several groups.
Sonia Doi:But let's talk about three main groups.
Sonia Doi:One with people who were trained in passes, spirit passes.
Sonia Doi:One that only had intention but of healing, but were not Spirit pass trained.
Sonia Doi:And the other wave, no intention whatsoever.
Sonia Doi:So he had that.
Sonia Doi:And also he then divided these groups into different levels of intention.
Sonia Doi:Completely unin all each one of these groups.
Sonia Doi:Unintentional, intentional, inhibiting bacteria growth, promoting
Sonia Doi:bacteria growth and negative effect.
Sonia Doi:For, there were people in the laboratory with the sculptors of bacteria, the ones
Sonia Doi:that were not to have any intention.
Sonia Doi:They were with a headphone and a video in front of them.
Sonia Doi:So the bacteria is here, but they were supposed to be watching the video,
Sonia Doi:so by watching a video, they were not kind of thinking about the bacteria.
Sonia Doi:They had their hands there, but they were watching a video, the
Sonia Doi:other one with negative effects.
Sonia Doi:They were watching a very violent type of video.
Sonia Doi:So to kind of bring a negative energy over the bacteria and.
Sonia Doi:Anyway, so with all of this different groups, the most significant effect
Sonia Doi:was the effect of spirit passes on the bacteria culture that had
Sonia Doi:intention to inhibit bacteria growth.
Sonia Doi:So those were the ones that were most affected.
Sonia Doi:When he asked all these three groups the with passes, with intention, non
Sonia Doi:intention to inhibit bacteria growth.
Sonia Doi:The group that had most effect on inhibiting bacteri arterial
Sonia Doi:growth is the, was the groups of people who practice British passes.
Sonia Doi:In this graph, under, in the red rectangle, you see the dark bars.
Sonia Doi:And this was in.
Sonia Doi:Two days, uh, in, I don't remember some hours and then two weeks of treatment.
Sonia Doi:But anyways, the question is they were not able to increase bacteria growth.
Sonia Doi:And why is this?
Sonia Doi:In the paper, there is a discussion about it.
Sonia Doi:The authors already talking about it, and they said it's very difficult for,
Sonia Doi:if you consciously think about bacteria, you think about bacteria being something
Sonia Doi:damaging and you don't want it to grow.
Sonia Doi:So how could you have a good intention to and, and.
Sonia Doi:Kind of vibrate for the increase of bacteria growth, usually because we
Sonia Doi:see bacteria as a damaging effect.
Sonia Doi:We want bacteria to not to grow.
Sonia Doi:We want to inhibit bacteria growth.
Sonia Doi:We want to combat the bacteria and not to increase growth.
Sonia Doi:So I think that's what was the, that's why the effect was better seen,
Sonia Doi:better noted, and more significant in decreasing the bacteria growth.
Sonia Doi:But this was interesting because it was bacteria, not people we see the
Suzana Simoes:effect.
Dan Assisi:Fascinating.
Dan Assisi:Fascinating.
Dan Assisi:So I love that there is a, a breadth of different things coming.
Dan Assisi:So we, there have been studies with babies with bacteria with people.
Dan Assisi:And I think that they're beginning to point to something that we intuitively
Dan Assisi:and maybe religiously or spiritually have believed in, that our thoughts have
Dan Assisi:power and that it can be even augmented when we're connected to the divine.
Dan Assisi:Right.
Dan Assisi:So it's reassuring to see that we're finding a way there.
Dan Assisi:And for us, spiritists that's really important because we have always put
Dan Assisi:extra effort in trying to understand the physical world around us and how
Dan Assisi:it relates to the spiritual world.
Dan Assisi:Sort of like in the definition of spiritism in a way, that Keck gave us.
Dan Assisi:And so to see that the, our spiritual selves, our, you know, the intelligence
Dan Assisi:principle that we are, can affect change via our thoughts into our physical world.
Dan Assisi:Even though the energies are very still very different, is
Dan Assisi:reassuring many different ways.
Dan Assisi:It's also.
Dan Assisi:A little bit of a tale of two perspectives, right?
Dan Assisi:Because it also begs the question, wow, if our intention can bring about positive
Dan Assisi:impact, what kind of intention and focus are we having during our day-to-day lives?
Dan Assisi:And what kind of interactions are we having with people around us?
Dan Assisi:Of course, this also has the augmentation of spirituality, right?
Dan Assisi:So passes.
Dan Assisi:It's not just our energy, as you was said, it's also our request
Dan Assisi:from spiritual helpers to kind of augment that which we have.
Dan Assisi:But it does beg the question, doesn't it?
Dan Assisi:What are we doing to make sure that we're good practitioners of
Dan Assisi:transmitting good energies to people?
Suzana Simoes:You just left in my mouth, a taste for like, I want some more.
Suzana Simoes:You know?
Suzana Simoes:Yes.
Suzana Simoes:Like, yes, the craving.
Suzana Simoes:This is amazing, amazing, uh, work.
Suzana Simoes:Thank you for sharing with us.
Suzana Simoes:It was very, uh, enlightening.
Suzana Simoes:I have a number of people in my mind that I wanna send directly the
Suzana Simoes:link and say, Hey, look at this.
Suzana Simoes:It's very exciting news.
Suzana Simoes:And again, I just can't wait to see what else is coming.
Dan Assisi:Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Dan Assisi:And while we do that, let's do our wrap up as our time begins to run away from us.
Dan Assisi:Flavia, what's your biggest takeaway from today?
Flavio Zanetti:My biggest takeaway is that there's a lot of
Flavio Zanetti:benefits from receiving passes.
Flavio Zanetti:If you looking for that, go to your newest spirit center and look for it.
Flavio Zanetti:There's definitely a lot of benefits from receiving passes.
Flavio Zanetti:I also took away that the there's some prerequisites for that person to become,
Flavio Zanetti:or for someone to become a best giver.
Flavio Zanetti:As we talked about, every center will be different, but
Flavio Zanetti:there are some re requisites.
Flavio Zanetti:For the person to do that.
Flavio Zanetti:And love, love, love is seeing Sonya's, you know, breadth of
Flavio Zanetti:expertise and academic know-how.
Flavio Zanetti:Show us that science is catching on while we as spirits have
Flavio Zanetti:learned, for many, many years.
Flavio Zanetti:So that's fantastic, right?
Flavio Zanetti:Those two worlds colliding, so to speak.
Flavio Zanetti:Love it.
Dan Assisi:And Sue, what would you say stuck with you
Dan Assisi:the most during this episode?
Suzana Simoes:Well, I, I kind of already said I'm, I mean, I, I love research.
Suzana Simoes:So I'm kind of, I was like, I needed more time.
Suzana Simoes:I wanna go back.
Suzana Simoes:I wanna look at it, I wanna understand it better.
Suzana Simoes:Um, so I'm left with some excitement, but also it's, um, something that for
Suzana Simoes:people to consider a lot of times.
Suzana Simoes:People wondering, what can I do?
Suzana Simoes:How can I help?
Suzana Simoes:And this is a way of helping others that actually not only helping others
Suzana Simoes:by sharing a little bit of something that we all have, which is energy
Suzana Simoes:but it also is an exercise of faith.
Suzana Simoes:And at the very end, we didn't have a chance to talk about it.
Suzana Simoes:But I did see a question about it is also as you give, you receive.
Suzana Simoes:Mm-hmm.
Suzana Simoes:Because you are never alone.
Suzana Simoes:So you are being also a channel of some spiritual energy
Suzana Simoes:that's coming through you.
Suzana Simoes:So it's a double win.
Suzana Simoes:You win because you are helping someone else.
Suzana Simoes:You win because you are helping yourself.
Suzana Simoes:And at the very end is it's just a wonderful practice
Suzana Simoes:that is available to everyone.
Dan Assisi:And before we give Sonia a final words, I'm gonna jump in
Dan Assisi:and say a hundred percent to what you guys smart people just said.
Dan Assisi:And I think what's really cool too is that we haven't explicitly called
Dan Assisi:this one out, but to talk about passes is to talk about prayer.
Dan Assisi:And so there is little distinction in a way, right?
Dan Assisi:Because everything that we were thinking about and talking about
Dan Assisi:here today also applies to prayer.
Dan Assisi:And in a way you can almost say that passes are an intentional,
Dan Assisi:intentionally directed type of prayer.
Dan Assisi:So it's also reassuring for us, I think to know that our prayers, our.
Dan Assisi:Effort to ask and act on behalf of others spiritually can also
Dan Assisi:be registered intentionally and scientifically and physically.
Dan Assisi:And I'm really thrilled too, like Za was saying, that we are beginning to
Dan Assisi:from a physical perspective, from a like a material perspective, really
Dan Assisi:pay attention to this and try to understand what are those changes.
Dan Assisi:Because this is not an alternative to traditional treatment, but it
Dan Assisi:could be a compliment to it, right?
Dan Assisi:I think that's something that we didn't really talk much about this.
Dan Assisi:We're all, we're all, we're all up for medical treatment Yes.
Dan Assisi:To all that.
Dan Assisi:Cuz medicine also comes from God people, right?
Dan Assisi:We've got like evolution of knowledge, right?
Dan Assisi:Including medicine.
Dan Assisi:And we need to respect and honor that.
Dan Assisi:But these are other practices that we can augment, that we can layer upon
Dan Assisi:all the other things that we are doing.
Dan Assisi:And especially in this world of challenges right now with mental
Dan Assisi:health and a lot of depression.
Dan Assisi:This could be.
Dan Assisi:Interesting thing.
Dan Assisi:So I'm really grateful that we have this experience.
Dan Assisi:And so, maybe it's a good time to turn to Sonia.
Dan Assisi:Sonya, what is the most interesting piece about all these studies and
Dan Assisi:things that you see and you learn about and you talk to people about?
Sonia Doi:First of all I love all your comments and I wanna thank you for
Sonia Doi:letting me participate in this talk.
Sonia Doi:But I have seen a lot of research coming more recently, not only about passes,
Sonia Doi:but about the how we can benefit others with our thoughts, our intentions.
Sonia Doi:And and we want to, in the, as I represent the Spirit Medical Association, we
Sonia Doi:support research, and we want to see more research in this field because of course,
Sonia Doi:you know, faith is important, faith is the base of it, but when it's like
Sonia Doi:spiritism, when we have the explanation, we can understand the defects behind it.
Sonia Doi:That makes our faith a lot stronger and it can make it more effective.
Sonia Doi:So I think that We are as the spirit, as medical association, our
Sonia Doi:mission is to educate the healthcare professionals and to support research
Sonia Doi:on the impact of the spirit or so in our, in physical and mental health.
Sonia Doi:I would like, I have seen more and more, I'm very enthusiastic
Sonia Doi:about the research that is coming out, but we are really trying to
Sonia Doi:simulate people to do more research.
Flavio Zanetti:So, Sonya, I, I can read some people's minds right now.
Flavio Zanetti:They might be listening to us later or watching us this
Flavio Zanetti:through our YouTube channel.
Flavio Zanetti:If they have questions, if they wanna connect with you or the medical
Flavio Zanetti:association, where do they go?
Sonia Doi:The best is to go to our website, www dot sme.
Sonia Doi:Dot org.
Sonia Doi:That's it.
Sonia Doi:And that's correct.
Sonia Doi:We can send, there's a contact us button, so you can send us question.
Sonia Doi:We are having several events now.
Sonia Doi:Every month we have something online and we have added
Sonia Doi:discussion on scientific papers.
Sonia Doi:So every other month we have a scientific discussion with a panel.
Sonia Doi:So you are invited and we are doing some changes in our website that may
Sonia Doi:not be there yet, but will soon be the whole schedule will be in the
Sonia Doi:website and everyone can join in.
Dan Assisi:Fantastic.
Dan Assisi:And it's always wonderful.
Dan Assisi:Always a good, yeah.
Dan Assisi:Go ahead.
Dan Assisi:Su Susanna.
Dan Assisi:Sorry.
Suzana Simoes:No, I just said wonderful.
Dan Assisi:Thank you.
Dan Assisi:Yeah, I was gonna say that I love that US Spirit Medical Association
Dan Assisi:is also providing opportunities for those of us who are not medical
Dan Assisi:doctors to be engaged as well.
Dan Assisi:So if you feel like you will know more, go over there,
Dan Assisi:subscribe, check out their events.
Dan Assisi:I am a member as well, and I'm not a medical doctor, but I love
Dan Assisi:hearing about the stuff and I'm really excited about all the work.
Dan Assisi:So thank you Sonya.
Dan Assisi:Thank you for all that you guys are doing over there.
Dan Assisi:We really appreciate
Sonia Doi:you.
Sonia Doi:Thank you so much.
Sonia Doi:Thank you for the opportunity to be here, to talk a little
Sonia Doi:bit to learn with all of you.
Sonia Doi:Thank you.
Dan Assisi:Yeah.
Dan Assisi:So we're coming to the end friends, and if you would like to know more
Dan Assisi:about Spiritist Conversations, we suggest that you visit our website,
Dan Assisi:spiritist conversations.org.
Dan Assisi:We wanna remind you as well that you can find past episodes on YouTube or
Dan Assisi:Facebook if you would like to watch it.
Dan Assisi:If you prefer to hear it like I do, you can head over to your favorite podcast
Dan Assisi:platform and download our episodes.
Dan Assisi:We'll be sure to include some links to the research that Dr.
Dan Assisi:Sonya Doy shared with us today in our show notes as well, so that
Dan Assisi:you can find it for yourself.
Dan Assisi:But thank you very much.
Dan Assisi:Thank you for watching and for listening to Spiritist Conversation, a
Dan Assisi:production of The Spiritist Institute.
Dan Assisi:We hope that you have enjoyed it, and if you did, please
Dan Assisi:share, tell somebody about it.
Dan Assisi:He helps us get the word out.
Dan Assisi:We hope to see you next time.