Lessons From the Pandemic

Hi guys, how are you guys doing? Suzana Simões: Hi Dan. Hi Flavio. Good to see you guys.

This new pandemic that has brought us anxiety has brought us fear and of course has brought us a lot of hurt because we have lost people, we have worried about people, and it has really shifted the way we think about things, so I think that it will take a little bit of time for us to really figure things out, still, about what is it all mean?

And from a bigger historical perspective, but I wonder, if there's an opportunity for us to talk a little bit about what are the things that we have learned from the pandemic. What are the lessons that we can take away from more of a spiritual perspective? What are you guys think? Suzana Simões: Yeah, perhaps that we are still learning, as you said, it's an ongoing process.

So I know Flavio was ready to jump in, but since I have the word, I will share my initial thoughts, which I'm going to actually start from where we are right now, right within the pandemic. I was just having a conversation with my wife this week as we were having breakfast and reading the paper about the new variant and we were discussing an article that talk about the discrepancies with the vaccination and what happens when we leave someone behind.

And I don't think this is the goal of our conversation to go into, what went on that an entire country was like left behind. But the fact is that I was talking to her and said, if this is not a lesson to be learned, that can be translated to every single aspect of our daily lives where if we want to be well healthy and happy, we cannot do it alone. So we have to include everyone.

So our neighbor needs to be seen us an extension of us the same way we see that in our family, like our brother and sister, if he or she is in need , or our parents, we go out of our way because it is our family. And we don't call that charity, we call that our natural duty to attend to the needs of those who we consider ours.

So what the pandemic is showing us, one of the things is that every one is ours and we must expand this concept of family to every single person, because we are all brothers and sisters under God. And it's not about being charitable. It's about penny to our human duty and recognizing that every single person in this planet is deserving of the same level of attention, the same level of care, and this is the only way, together, not ever leaving anyone behind that.

We'll get to a place where one day God willing, and God is willing, we'll call this planet a planet of regeneration.

And if you look back, this is the utmost important message that Christ left for us to really think about our siblings our brothers and sisters, humanity in general, as we need an extension on our family. I think that's a very interesting point because it's several parts of history or, or we, how we're living right now, that's pointing us to that direction. That's how I saw and I want to compliment your comments.

I like the fact that you might have survived COVID does not mean that you really are well or healthy, and happy. Cause our happiness, we're learning, has a lot to do with, of course who we are, but also making sure that the folks around us are okay too. So I think it's a really beautiful thing that we are going to continue to struggle with for awhile, right?

Is this awareness that we've got to put aside our tribal thinking and saying only my people, only my family, only my friends, only my partner, that I care about. I want to worry about them. We have to worry about everything even because from a scientific perspective, and we're seeing this now, if we don't take care of everybody, in this pandemic,.

If we don't vaccinate people, if we don't get people healthy, chances are this virus is going to continue to mutate and it's going to continue to haunt us for a little bit of time. So it's a collective effort for us to take care of all this stuff. So I think it's a beautiful lesson that I think we're struggling with for a little bit, we need to care for each other a little bit more than we have done in the past. And I think that's something that it bears repeating.

That's the big lesson, that we all are getting from the pandemic. Suzana Simões: And what a challenge that is, because what that calls for is they need to see every single one as deserving of the same level of care and love, is to be able to see and to truly feel that every single life is worth saving and there is no difference and there is nothing that truly separates us. This is very different. This is very difficult.

I'm sorry, when you're in this material world, separated by geographic limits, separated by cultures. And so to be able to transcend the material and to see each individual for who he or she truly is, the challenge that we have to exercise . Because I can, I will speak for myself. It's challenging for me, especially when you have someone who is so different culturally with ideas, with ideology to actually experience that person as truly equal and truly deserving and truly holy.

So that's what we are called to do. And we can talk about this at a very general and far away from our reality or what we need to do is each one of us, as we realize those lessons is to see how challenging is for me, to leave this idea that I'm here talking to you guys. So I'm saying this, but I am fully aware that I am part of the problem. And so if we keep putting the problem outside of ourselves and waiting for the world to fix itself, we are not at the right path.

It is ...How can I Suzana today, do my homework? Do what I need to do? Be at least minimally committed to do the work cause that's the first step, it is the awareness that you are part of the problem and their commitment, to be engaged in the work that is, that needs to be done starting from each one of us. But don't you think that we're a part of the problem but we're also part of the solution?

Suzana Simões: Yeah, by all means, but I'm talking about the solution, but this solution start with the awareness that you are part of the problem, that is already the solution process being on its way. Yes.

They're self-sufficient, they can live on their own, but that's not the case. Our lives are deeply connected and what you do over there, affects me. And what I do over here affects you. And generally we only think about what other people do and how it affects us. But I think what I'm hearing from Susanna and I wholeheartedly agree, is Hey, it's time to flip that script and say, what is it that I am doing? And how is it that is affecting other people?

Because we cannot control what other people are going to do, we cannot control how it's going to affect us, but what we can control is what is it that we're going to do? What kind of role are we going to play in this new world that hopefully, I'm hoping, we're going to emerge to from the pandemic. This is an opportunity for us and maybe this is another lesson too. We have an opportunity to recreate what society and what the world looks. We can come out of this.

We don't have to go back to the way things were before, the way we were behaving before our values, we can give ourselves a space and the chance to say, you know what? I am not going to do those things anymore. I think we're seeing a lot of that too. Like people are saying, Hey, I don't want that job anymore.

I don't want, I want to work from home or I want to have a different lifestyle, or I want to spend more time with my family, because I've realized all of a sudden, that I couldn't spend this year and a half with my family, I couldn't see them, I might've lost people. What was I doing? I need to pay attention more to these things. So in a way it's a great, like a reawakening piece, when we realized that we are more interconnected than I think we give ourselves credit.

We've done this before many times, but I think that's one of the biggest challenges for a lot of folks, they were not really involved with any type of technology, they had to learn super quickly, how'd you do most things, in an online fashion. But then my question for us to talk about it is what are the repercussions of that situation?

So I think the pandemic has forced us to to really, take a look at our families that, like you said, the distance and the importance of relationships and social engagement face-to-face. I recall like, being at some point very exhausted from the human conflicts at work at the center and getting to a point that it was like, okay, put me back in those calls. I want to see people again, I want life, it's not fun to be so isolated.

And so it's just a. I just think, I don't want to let that girl, because I think it's a huge thing that has happened. And going back to Flavio, yeah, I think there another lesson is it has really pushed us forward. In terms of it's an Alliance between productivity, but also Quality of life. Exactly. So he, I am right. So right now I am, in my working day, I took a little break and my lunchtime to view with you guys. So you're getting this done and I don't have to go back to work.

I have my computer here, as soon as they finish. Switch back to working. And so we are getting so much more done and at the same time I'm full and my father-in-law is here. So I can do so much that you can do right now that, before we weren't able really, or even aware that we could.

Yeah. And I love that and I think we can connect what Flavio said too, because no doubt, technology has been a very important part of this pandemic in my view, because like we always worried, we are always looking at what am I good at? What's going wrong. And what's the fear piece of the pandemic and so forth. But if we think for a second had this pandemic happened 10 years.

It would have been much worse much because we would have been way more disconnected from people because we wouldn't have the opportunity to do the things that we're doing right now. Online meeting technology. Wasn't as great as it is today. It isn't as easy. So imagine how much more depressive or how much more despair we would have had in our lives, because we wouldn't be able to do these things.

Like how many times have we during a pandemic and it picked up a phone and talk to people, but also them video calls. I've had happy hours. I have water cooler sessions with folks on video, just so that we can see each other. Yes, it was silly in the beginning, right? Everybody's in their own house and everybody put the time. Get her some drink or a snack or have dinner together. It seems silly, but we're learning that the human connection can happen in different ways and that's, pretty great.

So in a roundabout way, what I want to say, I think Flavio's perspective is really great, but we also have to be thankful. This pandemic thing happened now. I think even when hard things come about, there are positive lessons that we can take away from that, and one of those is I'm glad that we have technology now to help us figure this stuff out.

And people are, but I'm going to stop with the technology that we can go back to the quality of life, but Flavio you're going to chime in on the technology piece again?

. I look, for example, for opportunities to engage my colleagues, to learn, from the different things, through the technology. But I want to focus on the on the experience that we're gaining, but at the same time we may be missing, if we do everything online, I think what that pandemic taught us is that yes, it can be done. It's not one for one replacement, but you can still do most of what you were doing before face to face. You could still do it online.

Suzana Simões: So are you asking, like with these gains what is that we are losing at the same time? So for example, before let's talk about spiritism, we have our meetings where we go and learn about the idea of spiritism we study with people, we gathered together. We have food together. Of course, through the pandemic, we all have to adapt to a different methodology because we could only get together with each other.

Thankfully to Dan's point before, the pandemic is happening now, where technology is at a point our comfort level with technologies, a point that we can do these things now. But we're still right now replacing one for one that human interaction. I think the one misconception from the pandemic that I got is, oh, we can do everything remotely, everything virtually any reality, you can do most things, but nothing. We can replace six, right?

The human interaction to get together, the spending time with others. And as I say, the best things in life are walking in a park with your loved one, maybe holding your kids' hands to do something with them, this human interaction, I think the pandemic taught us to give a lot more value to those, despite the fact that we were replacing some of that with technologic now.

It was, I don't want to say superficial, but it was more of a level of things that weren't really necessarily bringing tons of value added to me. So I think the pandemic has no doubt has left me wanting right. For more human interaction. That's. But I've realized that I want more quality human interaction. It's not about hanging out with 30 people anymore. It's about spending time with two or three people where I can go deeper and make more of that connection that kind of lifts myself.

So I think that this this break, even then we had our spirits as institutions, for instance, where we could do online while we couldn't do in person piece ,is a good reminder for us to ask us. What is it that we really want? And this was one of the things that I really like to go back to it, to JC right. To Jesus when people approached him and it seems such an educator, he often said, what would you have me do? Or what do you want of me?

And I think that in a way, the pandemic is giving us that clarity and asking you, what do you really want? You thought you wanted to have that group of 40 people where you go talk a little bit with people and you don't add anything to your life, really meaningful. And that's okay. You can have that sometimes, but is that what you want for your entire life? Do you want that level of connection or do you seek something deeper with fewer people? Sometimes too?

I'm not saying there's a right or wrong answer. I'm saying it has led me to think, when do I want to watch and how am I acting in that way? And so for instance, these conversations that are a good example, I love talking with your guys on the staff and I, I wonder if there's a shift to where we're doing in spiritism in general, less talks and more conversations for us to do our study groups and meetings.. Suzana Simões: I want to add something to what you said.

We know that yes, the pandemic did help us a lot in terms of realizing the potential that we have to do so much online, but the world was very much aligned and social media has been with us for a good while now. And yet we live in a world where the levels of depression are extremely high in the level of loneliness has never be so high. So it comes to, along with what it's not really about connecting.

Connection online I think it has its place, it has its function, but we will never ever substitute the quality the relationships that are face to face and particularly the need to have relationships that are quality relationships. And then in science backs us up on that too. The research shows that, at the bottom line, what makes people happy it's nothing that the material world give us. It is connections, but it's not the number of connections. It is precisely the quality of connections.

Exactly, going back to Flavio, that's the loss that maybe it was important to lose, to realize, how we need to invest in humans, in relationship. We can we can be happy without having meaningful relationships and the whole social media, the whole thing. It kind of grants more shallow related because we hide behind the camera. It's a lot of Showtime a lot of times in these interactions. Totally Suzana Simões: Showtime everybody putting their best the

I think that the pandemic has exposed all the mental health issues that we all have. And I think it has made us more open to the idea that, oh, you know what, we need to work on that as a society. It's not just the problems with some people over others. And I think that one of the things that I hope that we learned from the pandemic is to take care of ourselves from a mental perspective. That is not just a, something that happens to some people, it's quite widespread.

We have tons of challenges with it. Everybody has their own demons, so to speak, their own challenges to figure it out. And I'm finding that people are being a little bit more open to talk about it and to make time for that which is a positive thing. And hopefully we carry that with us.

Guys, we hogged toilet paper. Remember, everybody's buying toilet paper and the Corona virus is not a gastrointestinal problem, but you know what I'm saying? Look at the level, look at what fear does to us. People rushed to buy toilet paper, where did that come from? That was just a fear that we had that toilet paper was going to end. And what if it did, we were not going to die? But anyways, my point is I think that the core of all this stuff was fear of death.

And I think that remains largely unaddressed as a society as well, but where I think Spiritism can help us and has helped me personally throughout my life is to slowly erode or chip away at this fear of death, because I know now for a fact that I will die and when I do, I will not stop being, I will not cease to be who I am. And more importantly, in a way too those that I love should tomorrow they perish, they die of COVID 19, it will be heartbreaking.

I will be sad, but I know it would not be the end of that. And I know that ,it's not that I believe, I know because Spiritism has showed us how mediumship works, how this interaction between worlds works, in our mediumistic meetings every week, basically in in a majority of spirits that centers throughout the planet, we see evidence of that.

So if I am part of that meeting, if I am part of that, mediumistic exchange between worlds and I see the stories of people, I cannot be as anxious and worried about death as I was before, because now I have proof that our essence who we are, us, spirits survived. So I think that right on my way, spiritism has helped me take some of the fear of death away, which has made me be more present and less anxious about the whole pandemic thing. I'm still worried about it. Still taking my precautions.

It doesn't make us careless. I wear masks, I got my vaccines in, I try to be helpful, I cleaned my hands, but I realized that should something happen, I lose a loved one or I pass over. I know it's not the end of things because I know it continues. So for me, it has been by far the biggest help the Spiritism has given me. Through the pandemic, dare I say, through my entire life, it has changed the way I behave and I act in many different ways. I'll do, I know there's a long way to go.

And sometimes to an extent that I don't even realize, like sometimes I have to think about it and say, wow, 20 years ago, 30 years ago, I would have behaved completely different during this piece here. But now I'm a little bit mighty. So I think that's where I would say that's how Spiritism has helped me in the pandemic specifically. Suzana Simões: Yeah. I think that like Dan was saying it just put the whole mental or imbalances that we all have in the forefront.

So all went up significantly with fear, with loss grieving depression, but also an incredible sense of powerlessness, being out of control, losing control of our lives and what we can or cannot do. So it's really hard to cope with all of these feelings. And I think we all experienced them to a greater or lesser extent, but a little bit of all of them was in the mix for all of us.

And I think that was one thing that I had in my mind, as we opened the show, which was, what has that done to humanity as far as assist to reconnect with what is essential like spiritually speaking or, facilitating these way back towards the spirituality, Spiritism and God, whatever it might be for different people. So specifically I think that I was really called to put into practice.

The faith and the understanding really like flat, think, and try to not make it such a cognitive experience, but really try to feel that there is a higher purpose for everything that the reason God in place, you know a universal intelligence, that there is a higher plan and really so meeting myself to this, which along with Dan, taking all the precautions, because submission to God's real, that is not me neglect or carelessness.

We are to do our own part, but to understand that there is something much bigger, something that we don't see, something that we cannot understand being on the valley, we don't have the view of the top, but we will call to trust in, to surrendering, to do our parts on this big equation that is going on right now. So for me what spirits isn't helps is, I love the gospel chapter 2 item 3.

What spiritism does is invite us always to climb the mountain and try to appreciate life from the top and not from the bottom, because then we have a much broader view of the situation. But even if we do so to the highest that we can go does not give us because we don't have the wings to fly that high yet. So our vision is always a partial vision of the reality.

So it gets to a point that there's nothing else you can see, you have to trust, you have to surrender and you have to really take into consideration that. The world is not disorganized, it's actually being organized. We are not lost in abandoning chaos. On the contrary, these are being rearranged. There is a higher plan and a higher force that is actually working to make this whole situation a better situation for all of us.

But then the pandemic came and the practical or the we learned a theory before, here's time for us to put that into practice. And that's how we were challenged by thoughts and our emotions were challenged, you know what trust everything will be fine. Trust. Do your part that everything will go moving through its place.

I think having that mindset allowed us, or at least allowed me again to be for you guys, but allowed me to navigate through that pandemic, still very optimistic about the future ahead, still looking at the ladder, then the ethernal yes, this was gonna be a difficult step for everybody. But if we do our parts, we'll get out of this much stronger and much more prepared for the future ahead.

That to me was the the massive lesson that I got from this of course, fear of death is huge and it's still something that bothers a lot of people. But the end of the day, having an idea that, yes, everything is under control. You should not worry about it. That's again, the message of Jesus has left us way back. it's the same message, but we just walked away from it, like in the last millennium.

And so I think that's all great, but it has also led me to believe that maybe this moment is not just important for this lifetime, but more after that. So I really liked that moment of reflection that we were talking about. And I really like that susanna also talked about faith is not about I'm going to paraphrase her a little bit. by saying faith is not about learn helplessness, right? It's not about saying, oh, I'm just going to trust and I'm not going to do anything quite yet.

The reason why we are in this place is because we haven't done enough or we need to do more. So it's not about sitting and just waiting to see what happens is rolling up our sleeves and doing what we can, which is something that we talked about before, earlier. But this space to reflect, I don't know that we would have had it in our busy lives. Have we not had the pandemic.

So while I understand that pandemic has caused a lot of challenge pain and, worry in general, one good thing from the pandemic, if I want to look at the good side of it, is that it has made us the space. It has made us okay to question our lives, and see if that's what we are really wanting to do. My work is what I want to do the time that I have with my family is not really what I want to do.

How do I want to lead my life, and I don't know that we would have had that space to do it right, because we're so worried about what other people are going to think sometimes of us or what the perfect life should look like or what the perfect job. We have accepted these values from the outside world without questioning them. And I think in many different ways the pandemic has said, what does it matter for me to have a really nice bank account?

If I don't get to spend time with my family, or if I have people in my family who are sick so I think that the moment of questioning it's a really hard one in that moment, right? When you're going through that crisis are really hard, but crisis are also moments of decision, is when we decide even the word, the word crisis comes from moments of decision. We've got to decide, how is it that we are going to act, what is it going to do? And so from that perspective, I'm, I am grateful.

I want to even use, want to use that word, right? Because I also want to give myself permission to say, it's okay to be happy, even in moments of gloom, right? We all are going through tough moments, but we also have happy moments in this past two years. It's important for us to remember that so it's important to first or give ourselves permission to say yes, things are tough right now, but right now in this second I'm okay.

But I wanna I wanna also bring one more thing, cause I know can you just go back because you ran over that Dan called me, but I go back to it. So he was talking about the fear of that. And I think along with that, here we are spiritist. So the bottom line is we are immortals and yet we are afraid of dying and we have a lot of feelings related to dying. So COVID by taking so many material lives, threwing in our face the vulnerability of this life, which is something that we don't think so often.

We live honestly even as immortal as if we're going to be here forever, some of us, some of us, you still have a difficult time. And I think I have mentioned that I dunno if he's in a lecture or the conversation, but It's a taboo to talk about dying. People. Don't even want to talk about it. If you say let's talk about what you want for the end-of-life. So we, I think we did have this conversation before people were like why do you want to talk about that? Why not? Why not?

If we can't just avoid it, it doesn't happen. Suzana Simões: It won't ever happen. And so we so what coffee did he say, Hey, listen, it can happen at any time. You know what I mean? And he takes something that's small and invisible to knock it down and to end what seems to be such a powerful existence, you know, and guess what? There's no pattern. You can be a marathon runner, super healthy, you can be young, you can be old and frail and survive. So there's no logic for it.

How do you, what do you do now? Because if there was logic would say, no, we got it. We now understand exactly how it happens, what is the population that is being what we're going to treat that then comes a virus that makes no sense at all. There was no like, I'm good. You don't know it can be anyone at anytime anywhere. So I think that was one of the big things is really like a reminder that this is a brief state for all of us.

My family's healthy. I'm still employed. I have a roof over my head. I can meet, a nice meal, mean there's small things that are not so small for a lot of people that made us reflect a lot and living the present moment was something that I believe was the big calling from that pandemic. People were leaving for the future, right?

It's not very difficult to see folks working multiple jobs and try to acumulate a lot of wealth and all of a sudden newness comes and the person who doesn't really enjoy their wealth. Happens, more often than not the pandemic gave us a hang on a sec, Do you really need all that or maybe it's time spend more time with I think that, to me, it was a big calling that comes back from us. Again.

I want to bring Jesus again, that we should cherish the treasures that the moth can eat and the steel that they think you can steal. So when we look at that most, most important treasures are in a, what we do with others, our friends, or family, or loved. And I think that's, to me, it's the biggest call and I believe we just start wrapping up because the time is running out. But to me that's a key point that I want to show is we speak about it before we dropped from today's session.

So these are all things that are very important and they're monumental, right? They're important things. And so from all of this, What do you, what do you guys take away from the pandemic? What do you take away from the show today and what do you take away from the pandemic?

As it continues to evolve and change our lives, Suzana Simões: I'm going to be very present in this moment and I'm going to say that I take away gratitude for the show that and being able to say to myself, Yeah, work is important, but I'm going to open a window and meet these guys and through these wonderful technology that allow us to do that in three different states in this country and at the same time gratitude normally, because we can do that, but also for having both of you in my life.

And although we are not talking on a daily basis, I know that these quality of relations that I have, that if I need anything, and I'm always following you guys and having these relationships in my life is something that I am grateful for. So I think that the word is always what a gratitude. I want to say thank you both for inviting me to be here today and that I have a challenging schedule sometimes. And but you don't give up on me.

So I'm so that truly to do, because I few nourished appreciation. That's great. I feel nourished by our conversation. And so here we are, this conversation is a result of the pandemic, our relationships, these workspace conversation. That's it. I want to end on a very personal note.

To appreciate things to pay attention to things that, perhaps would be going notice and With more attention on our daily blessings.

Making time to think about myself beyond the physical is I think something that the pandemic really helped me with because he has prevented me from traveling as much from doing all the different things that I was doing before, which gave me more time for reflection in many different ways. And so this show, talking with your guys and everything else has made me try to spend more time. Self and what is it that I really want to do?

I think some of them, you guys know, I even done professional changes, so I could have more time. For me to do the things that I want, which is to spend more time thinking about this. So I'm grateful for this difficult two years will have completely changed my my. For the better, in many different ways. And I'm really grateful for that and for these relationships.

And so I'm grateful that that I obviously have you guys, so we can have this relationship that we can have the space to talk about things that really matter. And I think that's such an important thing for me. I need that space to talk about things that lift me and carry me on a few or me to keep doing whatever it is that I want to do. And recenter me, help me give me the moment to really think what is it that I really want? What is it that's really important to me.

So I'm grateful for the pandemic for that grateful for you guys for that as well, to be my my thinking buddies here to put me during all this things. So thank you. And thank you for all the folks also, who are listening to us who send us messages, who sent us comments. It's really humbling. It's really lovely to see people from different places we just saw.

Elsa Rossi from the UK chiming in, we have folks from all different parts of the world, sending us messages and being part of our conversations too. Is really great. Shout out to people out in Macau. For instance, we found out that Spiritist Conversations it's in the, more, most shows in Macau and it's pretty cool stuff that that we're really foreclosed. So thank you. Thank you for that. I'm grateful for that too. Flavio.

Not only this body that we have, but our spiritual beings, the things that really matter in our lives, the friendships, the family, the time we spent together, the quality of the relationships, our connectionwith God however, you practice that. However, we do that right through a church or through a group of people or through a book. Our connection with God is more, it's more strongly than ever these things.

He's really, these things are really the best lessons that we'll hear from them pandemic. And it's not gonna stop there. W as the world continues to evolve, as we continue to grow as spiritual beings that we are, we'll continue to learn more things to better prepare ourselves for the future. Andy, on a very positive note, we all we all have a lot to be thankful, right? That's what.

Tell us a little bit about how people can connect with you and social media, if they want to follow what you're doing, but you got to come off from your first. Suzana Simões: Yeah. So we have the YouTube channel so there's other some way 70. So you can find oh, our lectures and participations. I also share these conversations during the YouTube channel. So all work can be found at that channel. And also at least the ground, same thing, Susanna, Simone, one 70.

Yeah. So shout out to Susan and all the work she's doing. If you want to connect with her, go ahead. Find her on social media. She's done something to make our life easier. She has the same handle, the same username in different places, which I love. You don't need to be creative people with your social media channels. Just keep it the same so we can find. So follow her a morning, sit seven, and for all of you guys out there we love to have you continue to follow us.

We'll have another show at the end of December. It's going to be an interesting one. We're planning I think it fro the 16th of December and it's calling follow Christ, not the Christians. Ha look at that. We're going to let them hair, we can a little bit, we're going to talk about Christianity in crisis since. The Christmas is coming up and how's that slightly different sometimes. And most people imagined. So we are really grateful to have you here. Don't forget to listen to us. Subscribe to us.

We're also very creative with our names, spirit. This conversation's all social media. That's what our name is. Thank you one more time for listening and we hope to see you soon.