Dark Pages & Safe Spaces with Holly Guy

Her philosophy , in her own words I write dark romance to carve out a space where women can confront their trauma , desire and darkness unapologetically and honestly . We love that . She's giving a voice to the parts of ourself . We've always been told to silence , and it's powerful . Please welcome to the podcast the one , the only , holly Guy .

I think gratitude is so important and I think this week it was GCSE and A-level results and I'm a special needs teacher , so , or a tutor as well , outside of writing , so I had some .

My students were really really happy with their results and that just brings me so much joy because they worked hard , they worked they have to work harder than anyone else and they absolutely smashed it .

And and then the erotic horror for me is the it's , it's horror entwined with the sex , so it's things like masked men , or it's like knife play , or it's death play , or so for me that's how I distinguish the two .

But to be fair , they have so many overlapping and woven strands that , um , in the beginning I used to use them interchangeably okay , so would you say that you could write one book that encompassed all of it ?

I was like I can do this myself , what I'm going to write one ?

Yeah , I'm going to do it and I'm going to make them go this way Because you know what it is . I was always reading and I was always thinking , oh , I wish , I hope the character does this and I hope they do that , and they never would , obviously because it's someone else's book .

How was publishing like , let's say , your first book ?

So there was a lot of learn steep learning curves , I might say in the beginning , like my first two were like 40 40 000 words in each book . So it was like tiny little thing . It was riddled with spelling mistakes . It was riddled with errors , I but it was for me , because I only wrote for me and I just wanted to publish for myself .

Um , and some crazy like . I got a review from someone called oh , actually I won't make the name out , but I got . I got a review on my first book and it said , um , okay , premise , writing style's rubbish , like just really .

It honestly ripped me to shreds and it said something like author will improve with age and , mind you , I was only 19 when I wrote my first book . So I looked at that comment and out of pure hatred , I thought , fuck you , alex . So now you know his first name . I was like I promise you I'm gonna get there someday . I love . That inspired me .

I was like I'm gonna grind , um , and yeah , I just kept self-publishing , self-publishing , and then didn't make any money obviously no one ever does in the beginning , um , but then I was investing my own and then I actually got an editor , because when Mr Anderson blew up a lot of the I laugh because a lot of my ot readers will cringe with me .

I didn't , I didn't originally have . I did have an editor for Mr Anderson . A publishing house tried to actually take Mr Anderson and they tried to change the premise of the book and I got really fed up and we actually parted ways because of that . Um , but sorry , I've got a lot to say on publishing houses anyway , but , um , but I'm gonna dive into that ?

So like they're not necessarily going to be in your best interest unless your best interests lie with getting the most amount of money . So I think people sometimes forget that like , oh they're , they're here for me and it's like they're here for the money .

The story means a lot to me because it's based on mental health and I've got a family member who struggles with the exact same mental health and it means a lot to me .

And they tried to change that ending and I was not having it and it just became a big thing and I thought I'm not going to work with a publishing house who's going to take away the only , like the main , reason why I wanted to write the book . So yeah , so I disagreed with that .

So they're like , actually we think this could be better this way , but like they don't always know the success of a book .

and it blew me up way bigger than I ever should have and I got slandered oh my gosh , because it wasn't edited properly , because the publishing house like they said , the editor , they did this , all this , all these issues , and I just got slandered , which was a very steep learning curve as part of my publishing journey is pay an editor , pay three editors ,

because the first editor never gets it right . They're only human . You can't expect them to . But yeah , no , that was definitely part of my publishing journey Lots of hate comments because I didn't edit properly in the beginning .

But I feel like they're very much like two sides , because there's the one side that's like I love dark romance . I will read anything and everything dark . And then there's the people that are like how disgusting that you read that and write that . So I'm so curious like were there any , because it went viral ? Were there any about the content ?

And , to be fair , mr Anderson and the books prior weren't necessarily dark romance , they were erotic romance and they did have um dark romance themes like that stalker and um , like forced marriage and those kind of tropes .

But I guess well , I mean because my stuff these days is so , so dark anything compared to that is like light and fluffy and meek here and sweet and innocent . So yeah , who knows ?

And I remember seeing that and I was like what , what does erotic horror mean ? Then I googled it . I was like , oh my gosh , that's me . So I literally just pinched the phrase .

I was like great , it's , it's perfect yeah , it's perfect , it's dark , it's a prey and it's us okay , but then I , I'm okay , I'm like so curious because like I've never heard of it before .

The ending needs to put me back together again , or I don't like it , not here for that , uh , would you say to like , especially from when you started writing dark romance that has it changed like , both within the genre and like the books you've written and maybe are writing ?

book talk . You think about tiktok and um , yeah , I think it's definitely become more normalized in in today's society , especially with book talk . You think about TikTok and and these communities and things .

So my one of my mottos in my business is or in the books is I use the trigger warning page as a shopping list and , like , I really believe that and you know what it is is that people should have consent , they should know what they're going into within a book .

If there's a book with non-con and you have a trigger of non-con , that is the worst possible scenario for you to go in blind . That's so triggering . So I'm 100% an advocate of trigger warnings , although I will say in some books I don't have them at the beginning and that's something that perhaps I need to look into .

Because they're so accessible on my website , on my social media , because I'm constantly throwing them at people , I perhaps don't put them in books no fair .

But I'm curious because I feel like dark romance has entered this base of we are going to use the trigger warnings to market the book and I'm curious your thoughts on that , where I feel like I haven't dived into dark romance like recently no-transcript guilty of that , because I , I really my first thing is look at the triggers .

I think that that would be quite disappointing for them and , um , I can understand that'd be quite frustrating . So I think my , my marketing tactic is I'm gonna show you why you should not read the book , why you can or can't read the book , and then from there , let's be friends and let's have a little .

I guess like there's just like more , and maybe that's just like more

and maybe that's just because . Well , I actually think that too , because a lot of it is becoming like these dark romances which would never see the light of day in a bookstore before , covid , are now seeing the light of day , and whether that's like you see HD Carlton's books in the bookstore , you see Bryn Weaver's books in the bookstore .

So I think they're kind of making I don't want to say they're like setting anything , but I think they're bringing these dark romance more mainstream and for other people to find them . And then also , then it kind of leads to Amazon and finding books that aren't necessarily in the bookstore .

You just need to find the right book for you , and maybe it's a dark romance , maybe it's an erotic horror .

He was a very good boy , nice boy , yeah , it's very lovely . And then she also falls in love with his bodyguard who literally just wants to kill her . So it's that good boy , bad boy , it's that nice romance mixed with the , the dark , depraved , dark side .

So I would say it's quite a nice little dipping toe in to see whether you can handle dark romance in my , in my writing style .

So it's one I released like a few weeks ago and , um , it's a sapphic romance about a like a sex demon who bullies this innocent virgin at school and just keeps killing her and like killing her , actually killing her over and over and over again because she hates her so much .

Um , and the girl just keeps coming back , keeps coming back and then turns out they're fated mates , which is why she can't kill her . Um , and it's just . And then now the virgin , the innocent virgin's like fuck you , I'm getting my revenge . So it's like , it's just , like they're both absolutely depraved and they're so unhinged and nasty to each other .

It's the most delicious erotic , horror , dark romance book you'll ever read oh , and I feel like there's .

So yeah , I'm trying to make it as inclusive as possible and allowing everyone to be able to dip their toe into this world oh , I like that .

I can really like immerse myself in the culture and make sure I'm being absolutely correct in my depiction and portrayal . And so , yeah , no , it's very intentional .

But seriously , my last few books I've had like these beautiful endings and beautiful like characters , and then I'm just like I can't actually go that way because the story wants to go a different way . So I must say I'm absolutely like a pantser or in English we'd say a bullshitter . I love that .

So how do you think , like dark romance is a safe space for women to do this and like your book specifically ?

escapism and it also , ironically , offers women control . Um , I mean , it's all for all genders , but I think I specifically work with women because they're the ones with the majority . They've reached out to me and with their stories and I guess , yeah , I think you know what it is that art's supposed to disturb the calm and calm the disturbed .

Right , that's a lovely . I heard that quote before and I just think it's so true that dark romance offers escapism and you know what it is . I think there's three things . I think the first way is it allows a survivor to confront the situation again , but in a , in a controlled environment where it's , it's at a safe distance , it's .

It's not real , it's fiction , it's characters , is in a book . You could put it down , you can move on if it's too much , um , but it also is like , yeah , it's in a space you can control , it's a .

It's like exposure therapy right , if you're scared of spiders , they put you in a room full of spiders if you've had something bad to you and this is not for everyone . It's like exposure therapy right , if you're scared of spiders , they put you in a room full of spiders If you've had something bad to you .

And this is not for everyone , it's just for a certain group of survivors who find this a good form of therapy .

It can be exposure therapy , and I guess the other two things is to be totally frank , I want to write for women who have had trauma and express this trauma in terms of hypersexuality , because we know that you can either repress after trauma or you can become hypersexual , and I think that society really shames women who lean into their hypersexuality because they

think you might have enjoyed the essay , or you were asking for it , or you deserve it , because your personality and your character suggests that you're always this promiscuous woman who's looking for sex . Well , that's not entirely true . And I write for women who who are hypersexual and now have these feelings of guilt .

It's like , well , how can I , how can I , how can I still fantasize about force and fantasize about control , but then that awful thing happened to me and I'm writing for women , for them to reclaim that sexuality and say , no , you are valid , you are valid , you are absolutely valid , these desires . It's a desire you wouldn't shame someone for a foot fetish .

Why would you shame someone for a knife fetish ? Right ? I mean within moderation , obviously , consent is everything I do within safe boundaries . But this is fiction . Those , these are the words on a page . Um , no , exactly , yeah , and I , I think what it is as well is that the difference between real .

I mean there's loads of differences between real life and pages , but one of the biggest things is a survivor . I can only speak in my opinion here , but a survivor wants to be protected fundamentally .

And in these books , yes , the anti-hero is depraved , yes , they're violent , yes , they can do awful things , but they're also possessive and they care for her in their own sick , fucked up way . They will kill for her , they stole her , they wanted her . There's . There's that protection of .

You are wanted , you are desired , you are cherished , even if it's in a in an unconventional way , there is still that . That it's . It feels good to be wanted . In that sense . I don't know if that makes sense , I know , I think that's just my jumbled , my jumbled thoughts and how I feel about it , and I hope people resonate .

Um , yeah , I just think it's that it's a safe space , it's exposure therapy and it's just . It's a place , a way for some women and people who read this like it's almost like rewriting history .

So I want like , but you're right too , because then there's like there's the people that repress it and then , of course , also like that completely valid , you did like everything it's like very traumatic and if that's not something that you want to revisit , you do not need to .

But then there's the other way of like , because I think too , like in some of dark romance , like a lot of it can also be the authors who were working out their trauma and they're putting on paper .

So it's like I think there's like both forms of like , whether it's like the author or the reader is working through what happened and gaining that level of control back through consent . And I do think too , with consent there is like a different level of consent .

There it's almost like as you pick up the book and you're opening the pages and you're starting to read , there there is that level of consent , of like OK , I'm consenting to reading this story .

So , even though there might it's like a dark romance and maybe there's no consent between the characters there is consent of the reader consenting to reading what is on the pages between these two characters .

So there is , like some , there is a weird that I don't want to say it's weird , it's not weird , but there is this like level of consent between the reader and the book yeah , I love that .

I don't want anyone get hurt , whether , like she's , she looks happy . But you're thinking , are you happy ? Like you have those feelings of guilt and shame and um , and just like , yeah , you feel sad for them and I think it's really important because I always get thrown . Oh , you're no better than a , than someone in porn .

You're no better than someone who's who's doing , uh , who's promoting these violent acts against women in the physical world . And I said , well , no , it's fictional . You have to understand nothing is real , it's all words . The same way , you wouldn't go for stephen king and say how dare you promote murder and how that ? you must like hangings and things .

Like , somebody else will want this story and somebody else will read it and like it and enjoy it and be here for it and I want to too . Like you mentioned , it's like a level of escapism . It's you can experience things that you don't want to experience in real life , but you can do it within the safety of these pages . So it's like I think to like .

When I saw it like again , I don't read too many dark romances right now , but life got too dark and I was I was liking being able to read these things that , like , I would never be able to do in real life , like I would just be scared , shitless .

But to be able to experience it within these pages of a book , like it fed that desire I had of like wanting to experience something like that .

Whether that it could like I'm just something like that , whether that it could like I'm just thinking , like you brought up knife play , like I was reading , like I don't have you ever read KV Rose Her these Monstrous Ties ?

. It's like one of my favorites and her , like she has knife play in there and I'm I was here for it because it was something that , like , I could experience in within the safety of these pages .

And I think there is that level of consent and safety which you're bringing up to like it's a safe space because I , I think I would pee my pants if , like , my husband brought out a knife and was like , okay , get ready . Like I would pee my pants and I'd run away screaming , but like I can experience it within these pages . So it's like one of those .

Like it's it is a safe space for those desires too , because , you're right , it's like something and like that's the thing is , you could literally have a desire for anything and you will find a book with that and you can experience it without actually having to experience it .

And like the same with like blood play too , like I get a paper cut and I'm like fainting , like I I can't do that like , but like , if it's in a book , I'm like yeah , yeah real life no like but that , and I think that's okay . So it's like I book , I'm like , yeah , real life , no , like but that , and I think that's okay .

So it's like I think that's one of those things that if there's an honestly to that , that that goes very dark , but if you don't want to go very dark , there is a book for you .

If there's something that you're curious about and you want to like I don't know this month was was a few years ago , maybe in like 2021 , 2022 , like masks were like a big thing and like every book had mask play .

So it was like that was another thing of like people wanted to experience that and , granted , like I mean , you could also get a mask and have your partner put on a mask , but I think too like , whether you wanted to try that or not , you could try it in a book first .

And then you would go and you would try and try it out with someone and you wouldn't know how , like you wouldn't know the boundaries , you wouldn't know . Or am I into this ? And if you're halfway through anything , oh , this isn't for me , you'd feel . Oh , we've got that awkward anxiety about it's so unsafe stopping .

Yeah , exactly , it could be so unsafe in the past and I do think the books have like , uh , porn books , as I call them , but I think that's not , it doesn't help my face , but erotic books . They really help you explore , as you rightly said , explore your sexuality , explore your kinks in a safe , controlled environment .

And if you don't like it , you close the book and you walk away exactly , exactly .

And then you just like close it , but I know too , like when , why choose ? Got really big and reverse harems , like people were . It's like , yes , like I wanted to read about a girl getting banged by five people , but I do not want to be banged by five people , but like I think it's one of those things . It's again .

It's like it's reading something to your level of what you want to either try , desire just to experience , like within the pages of a book , 100% , yeah , as we just like keep going on about kinks and all that stuff . So what , what would you say are like some of the kinks in your books ?

Because of you like the show on one of the seasons , like the guy like likes to eat on , and so he mentioned golden showers and that's the only thing I know about I love it .

So , and I like to write multiple scenes with a kink , because then I like better . Anyway , it wasn't until I read it through the whole book . I was like I've included three fucking piss scenes . They're going to think I've got a kink . Now People are going to think , oh , here we go . Holly Guy , the water sports girl .

I was like , oh , so I took one out , but I did leave two because I was pretty proud of them both .

the spiciest that I've ever written would probably be nymphonite , definitely . I mean , it's literally got the god of lust and the god of sin fucking a woman in a sex club . Yeah , I think that actually might be it .

I'm like I could tell you about a thousand book plots , but the I think the titles I've got no idea . It was one I read recently . Um , I don't know the author , but the title's called Honeysuckle , honeysuckle .

So somnophilia is like it's sleep sex , but it's consenting , so saying I consent for you to wake me up before I say so , to perform sexual activities or to do something sexual near me , like it's their fetish that they like to be unconscious basically , oh yeah , but that's also like the thing too .

But I think too it's like there's consent of the character being like this is what I like , so please do this sure , sure , I will say in erotic horror there might not be obvious consent .

like violated , you know sure , absolutely .

In the beginning , again , she taught me erotic horror and I think , yeah , it has to be one from her and I think it might be skin , skin . Yeah , it's like skin , like s-k-i-n s-k-i-n or okay , yeah , skins , sorry with an s um , it's just , it's brilliant .

And also it's such it's so fucked up like the actual plot of it is so unhinged , even even I took a step back and I was like that's crazy . So but I did read it a while ago . I've read the first one . It's had a second edition since , but it's yeah . I think that's an underrated book in the erotic horror industry environment .

They're not human , they're just like body okay , oh gosh so you know , like , if you think about like ai girlfriends , ai boyfriends , it's like that , but there's actually physical . So they create from actual human flesh , they create like women and then obviously , these men are buying the women to .

I mean , if , for my memory , it follows three different men or three different storylines of three different people who have bought a doll from this doll company and it talks about their experience with the doll , um , yeah , it's so enhanced , it's like skinning , it's like skinning people and like , oh , yeah , it is , it is crazy okay , I had to look .

I should , honestly , I should have looked it up more , but I just it popped into my head when you talked about yours , so I was just curious if you had read this one . But I thought it was interesting because , like I've heard it's , it's like everybody that reads it says it's like the darkest book they've ever read .

writing this .

I am so sorry to anybody listening because I don't really have much else , but see , I'm like the type of person that I love to go in completely blind . So if there's like a book that's like kind of on my radar , I will avoid reading anything about it because I'm like no , I can't , I can't , I can't look at it .

But otherwise I'm just like trying to enjoy it for the ride and I'm not trying to like guess , because then same I get really disappointed and I because I guessed it and I'm like I don't want to guess it . So I just like kind of like avoid thinking about it , just like have a good time , I love it , okay . So I I okay .

Is there anything else that you want to say before we like wrap episode up ?

We're actually just chatting to readers as well , um , so , yeah , etsy and Instagram are probably . We're actually just trying to read those as well . So , yeah , etsy and Instagram are probably where you're going to find me the most active .