Welcome to SpeakUP! International with Rita Burke and Elton Brown!
As our listeners know, SpeakUP! International aims to inspire. educate and inform, and today we have a woman with us that will certainly help us to meet those goals. I introduced to our listeners, Miss Janice Ursula Clark Searles who was born and educated in Toronto. I think it's important for me to say that upfront. She was raised in a God fearing home and attended post-secondary education at York University and University of Toronto, earning degrees in arts and education.
She was a school principal, guidance specialist, reading specialist, and quite a few other things in the educational field. Now, Ms. Searles culminated her outstanding 31 year career in education. After serving as principal of three schools in Toronto, she was fortunate to attend.
The black educators conferences and to present at them in the States, and at those presentations, she talked primarily about best practices for educating all students, but particularly students that were considered marginalized or black students. Janice is also a former member of the board of director of the Ontario Black History Society and she's done quite a number of other things in our community.
But the one thing that I think is really important for me to say is that she was fortunate to have a rewarding career in education and she has mentored many students, teachers, and administrators. We welcome you to SpeakUP! International, Miss Janice Ursula Clark Searles!
Thank you so very much Rita, and it's a pleasure to have been asked to be part of the SpeakUP! series with you and also Mr. Elton Brown. So I look forward to this.
It is our pleasure to be part of this conversation with you, Ms. Janice, and I am so excited. I have so many things I want to ask you, and so I'm just gonna jump right in. What skills did you utilize to be a successful guidance counselor? And can you provide examples of how your guidance was effective, without disclosing confidential information.
When we think about the guidance and how I even got into the guidance counselor area of my career, others had seen in me the opportunity to be able to affect that change with the students I had as a teacher, a classroom teacher, rotary teacher. And when I was a guidance counselor, I was then in the Scarborough Board of Education before the Toronto District School Board amalgamated together from all the other boards.
And the key there was we had, as a guidance chairperson, the opportunity to work not only in one school, but a number of schools. So you had your base, and it usually was a senior public school, and then you had other schools, elementary schools that were also part of that area, that actual family of schools, as they called it.
And as a guidance counselor, as a black guidance counselor, and from knowing those who I have been able to look to over time, I could see there was that need to be the advocate for all students, but especially those who were students of color. And so discerning certain things, understanding the environments from which our students come, understanding their parents, being able to communicate by listening effectively to what was said and interpreting what was needed.
Being able to stand up and be sure that you allowed others to appreciate all of the opportunities that were out there, and not just those that they may have known because they perhaps had a limited view in many cases of what was available for their children. And as a guidance counselor, you're there for the academic piece.
You sit in meetings, you'll hear about the various students, sometimes the issues that had cropped up for those students, and you also understood where it was coming from, where the actual concern came from. Who were the teachers that were speaking about students?
Who were the actual perhaps administrators, principals, speaking about students and what was it that you as a guidance counselor me as a guidance counselor, could see by going into a school, the environment, the actual classrooms, and being able to see the need and what was expected of a full staff.
Sounds to me as if it was a fascinating, amazing, truly delightful experience for you in that particular role as guidance counselor so thank you for sharing that. I wanna ask a question, and in your response, you talked about being a black guidance counselor. Do you know I know that you that people will look at someone like you, someone like Elton, someone like me, and ask us that proverbial question, where are you from? The question is a loaded question. So how did you respond to that question?
How did it make you feel? Where are you from given the fact that you were born here in Toronto.
It's interesting that you bring that up because it started for me as a person that was born here in the city and when I was going to school, I was often the very only person of color period in a classroom. So you talk about a black child in a classroom, but it wasn't that you had a multicultural classroom. Not when I was going to school and so at one point, I remember there were three blacks in my elementary school from kindergarten to grade eight, and the two other girls were sisters.
And what I was very aware of, because this is all I knew growing up in my community, going to the school, it was something that was expected because you didn't see neighbors with the students that looked like me. You didn't see the people on the street, you didn't see the teachers, you didn't see anyone around that really reflected you except your parents.
And then of course for us, and for me, my upbringing in the church where we would travel long distance every Sunday to our church, which is where we would actually see, I would see many people who were looking like me, their background similar, and those who had immigrated, et cetera. So from a young age was always the thought that I was never a person who was born in this country. It was always thought of, where are you from?
Even from students to adults expecting that Africa, in my growing up, Africa was what was expected. Oh, from Africa. Where are you from? From Africa. And then as time went round and along, and sometimes I got very wise and I would just pause instead of answering quickly to see how many other places they would call out. You mean? Oh, from the islands, from Jamaica, from Trinidad? And this is how people would ask asking because they were confused.
They wanted to be sure, but I was very wise as time went along because it wasn't like, oh, so we're speaking and we're getting along. Where are you from? And I would say, where are you from? Wasn't like that and there was that opportunity to always make a point.
And I credit my parents so much for this because from their examples of speaking up in various areas and to people from all backgrounds, I learned how to speak up, be proud of my background, but to let them know that yes, there are people that were born here in Toronto because even among some people who were born in Canada that were black, as time went on, it must be because you were from Nova Scotia, east Coast must be because you're, oh, from the southern part of Ontario, Dresden and Chatham,
et cetera. God forbid that it came to them, that there were blacks that were born right here in Toronto and had their families, et cetera, and that was something you had to really push. So I'll end with this. We got very smart, some of my friends and I when, and friends, meaning those who I would know outside of my community. Black people who would sit back and then we got cheeky and when it was said, where are you from? What island are you from? We would answer, we are from center.
We swam over. And so they would look, because of course they got it center island and so that's how we came to be on the, like on the mainland. And of course that would keep them quiet.
That sounds to me like a mischievous response. And you don't strike me as a person who's mischievous? Miss Janice?
Ah-huh. See, Rita, we just never know.
This is a perfect lead into my next question, how do you define the term, ethnocultural? And what strategies did you use to promote ethnocultural equality among students and staff? And were you able to observe any positive outcome from these effects?
Yes. So for me, ethnocultural equity, if we actually break down, we're talking about a grouping of people, a culture, like any group of people have their culture based on where they were born or the language that they speak and the ethnicity piece. Is what is added to that.
So when I had the opportunity and continued to do that, that word, way back when Ethnocultural, equity, even equity, you didn't hear it as much when you spoke about those who were a different background in different skin a different race of people. The ethnicity part was what was shown to others and had to be explained that we're dealing with people that have something in common from their actual background or the environment in which they have been raised.
And when putting that together, the equity piece came after because often people think to be equal, we're going to be equal. Equity is not equality, but equity means giving what is needed. So it, there was always, and there still is that need to actually explain that ethnicity has to do with where a person actually identifies culturally as well as that background, so you can be, for example, culturally, let's just throw this out culturally.
The large cultural piece could be that you're from the West Indies. The ethnicity also is that you are perhaps a black person from the West Indies, and I'm just giving this as an example, and therefore you see that there are two things coming together so that you have the la the broad, and then more the narrow and that's what I would explain there.
You certainly broke it down to a point where, I believe that anyone who is interested in understanding what Ethnocultural means could understand. Thank you so very much for explaining that. I remember when I went to U F T, I was in the teacher's program and the first day in that program, the professors, one of the professors said, we are all from an ethnic group, everyone is from an ethnic group and I think he shocked some of the people in the class because they weren't expecting to hear that.
So thanks for explaining that. Now you have been in the educational system for over three decades. Obviously you have observed changes and I trust that those changes have been for the better. So talk about us about that, please.
That's a big question. I see that there are so many changes that are positive changes over the years. One of the things right away you would say, and that comes to be really the number of people that have come to be in, let's say, Toronto, in Ontario and Canada. The actual population that has moved along the way in the thousands and thousands, and of course, who are the people that you're seeing? Yes, we can say that this country is very multicultural, which it is.
But then you can see that there are a lot of various different groups of people that are able to immigrate to this country and make their lives and their children, and the generations go on when you are thinking about the changes in the education system. From the perspective of just, who do you see in the schools as far as the educators are concerned from all aspects of those who are involved with these schools.
So for those who are teachers and those who are administrators, those who are educational assistances, those who are in the other QP areas as well, you see a number of people reflecting all backgrounds, which then reflect our students. This is not something that always was the case when I became I guess when I became an actual administrator, vice principal first before being a principal.
When you went to any big meeting, and even the Toronto board, there were those that you knew who was who if they were a person of color, you knew them because there were so few of us. And then of course, as years go on, because we might have been at the table and had the opportunity to actually hire bringing into a school, those who we would wish to see that complimented.
The staff and those who knew and were able to be on board with what it was that came from the head, not just from board as it's as the officials, but from your personal school and as the leader, you're, able to bring to the floor things that you know are important and you expect this of your staff, but you teach them as well, and you have that opportunity. There was that bit of leeway as time went along.
I could see as an administrator in the schools, there are so many changes that came about and still are when it comes to human rights when it comes to equity. I say this again when it comes to inclusion, when it comes to what is being able to be taught in the schools, and there's always a way, I always felt before there's curriculum about something. If it's important to me and it's something that needs to be addressed, there's a way to address it and to teach to the studens.
Those are changes on the other side, we have become such a a world, a community where everything can be challenged. One has to be able to be confident and speak up for that which they believe is right. There are always guidelines wherever you go, but one has to be able to speak up as well and when I say speak up, not be afraid to speak up. In the appropriate way to affect that change That comes from a level of respect that one has to have before somebody's going to hear and listen to you.
Speaking speaking of leaders and speaking up, how did your late aunt's role as a community liaison counselor for the former Scarborough Board of Education inspired you and what impact did she have on your career path?
I was blessed to have my aunt I, first of all, I was blessed to have my parents who were those who were also very much those to speak up, especially my mother and my aunt Doris, was my dad's sister born here as well in Toronto, as my parents were also born in Toronto. I didn't say that before, so you could see how far back in that way and the lessons and the opportunities to learn from them what they had gone through.
But for my aunt as a person first born here, second Scarborough Board of Education before amalgamation and then as a community liaison counselor, which was a new actual position period in the Scarborough Board, but at least the Scarborough board was credited with having the knowledge that there should be people that were able to represent the various ethnicities, the culture of various students, so they could be the advocates for them.
And so for her at the time when she was a community liaison counselor back in the eighties in nineties, again, why and how is it that sh her voice would be heard? People had to understand and have to value what she was bringing to the table.
Again, always respected and always knew to speak up in meetings, various meetings that had to do with students and maybe there was a concern between home and school and she would be called in so she would be able to be the person in between to make sure that each side understood what the other was going through for the background that they're dealing with, she was an advocate for students who a lot of boys, especially of color who may have had issues with how they were being treated in a
classroom, issues about belonging, and perhaps then they would act out and of course you have the people to be able to appreciate what the issue was and get to the bottom of it. She was that advocate, and so she had great respect that was given to her over the years from everyone, even from the director of education in the Scarborough board, then right through to teachers, to principals and of course the parents themselves.
In so doing that respect was according to her but she made that she was always the one to question, so things didn't just slip through.
I thank you for speaking about her because I remember her well. If you recall, Sam used to be guidance counselor with a Scarborough board. So what you're saying about advocacy, particularly the students, and you're talking about the sense of belonging and you're talking about, important things that resonate with our community. So thank you for mentioning her. I really thank you for that. As I said at the beginning, the purpose of SpeakUP!
International is to inspire, to educate, and to inform, and there's no question that you're helping us to meet those goals today. Janice, I wanna switch a little bit from your role as an educator to talking about the Black History Society. Because I have fond memories and feelings for that organization. Speak about your involvement and the purpose that they serve in Toronto, Ontario, in Canada. Speak a bit about that for us please.
It was a long while ago when I was director of Ontario Black History Society, although I knew it well and were at functions, and it has definitely grown over the years. It has changed over the years too. So thinking of who are the people who are a part of the organization. And the breadth of the organization from being a group that was started as we know, a long time ago, over 45 years ago because there was a need.
And so we had that small group and it was basically around like the metropolis type of thing where Toronto and other areas but then it was that all people in Ontario. Because of their background as blacks, they were able to appreciate there were those who were trying to advocate for them. And so when it comes to even teaching, because there was such a board then, and.
Since then things that were then branching out to allow others in the city to appreciate that there is an organization, there are blacks in Canada. We've been here from sixteen hundreds. This is important. Let us make sure that the word is out. Then it became something that the advocates were there. Allow the your indi emancipation Day Black history. February is Black History Day.
We had it in Toronto before it was really even brought to Ottawa, but the catch is that being on the board you had the opportunity to learned from others who were blacks, others who were able to give their input based on where they had their roots in Ontario. And then change came slowly. I think it's still slowly. But basically to see that other people were allowed to understand, if you want information, there's a place to go.
If you need some assistance, there are people that they can refer you to. And this is the importance of the Ontario Black History Society. It's changed many hands over time, but there are other things that hopefully we'll see that they'll be able to do. But it does serve that need.
Serve a wonderful, very important purpose in our community. Elton, I'm putting it over to you now.
Ms. Janice, do you think that the Black History Society is still relevant? And if so, how can we impart our history to our children?
There's two parts there. I do think it is relevant. I think it's relevant and is updating all the time from what I'm seeing, even the people that are involved in the society. The idea of black history as I was saying at the very beginning of our time together.
It was Ontario Black History Society, to make sure that there are those that understood that there are blacks in Ontario, in Canada, but it has had to venture out beyond those, that small area, because we have blacks as said coming to this country from all parts of the world, and there's a need to represent them. And from what I see too solely, they have the Ontario Black History Society has many other people that are on the board that represent their own.
Society from which they have come, but they are coming to this country, to this province, and so they have to be included as well, and they should be. The thing I see is the education piece. They, if you call them up and ask for information and want to get some names, if you were in a school and so on, they can provide you with that.
But the other piece is that beyond them, There are other ways that now we see that the history of blacks in Ontario, in Canada is being valued beyond, let's say, the society. It's being valued by all, and even when it comes to the provincial government and knowing that there are things that they have said, and I. Quote said that need to be part now of the curriculum, black studies, part of the curriculum. We wanna wait and see how that's going to continue to be done.
Not that you're at a school that is for Black achievement, black excellence, which we have in Toronto, but what about the schools? All schools? What is it that is being taught and there's where the test will come to know if it's being taught and done well.
A super value of a purpose in this city, in the province, and I salute everyone who's been involved in the Black History Society. I know for a fact that the last Sunday in January, they sponsor a huge brunch where they bring people from all over the country together to celebrate blackness that are being here. Thanks for responding to that question. I didn't, I don't think we could have spoken with you today, but without raising the Black History Society.
Now, my next question is, what advice would you offer to the next generation? As they're navigating their way in their professions and perhaps in their personal lives as well. Speak to us about that please Miss Janice.
How do we navigate? That's a question that we would say is you must always have that opportunity to be able to question what is not clear to you as an individual. Some people will sit back and watch for others to do the questioning, and that means that they may go away if the others don't question. Still not moving themselves along to be able to say they have come away with a little bit more. You have to dream. You have to dream with ambition, and you have to be able to lead with conviction.
This is something that I heard a long time ago and I always remember. You need to dream. Nothing is wrong with dreaming. You have to have something out there, some goal, because the status quo is not always good enough, and it's not because this one didn't do it, that you shouldn't do it. You might need to be the one to step out. Step out, meaning to speak up. You might be the one to lead another to be able to see and have them value themselves and guide them.
We are on this earth, not because we are all of that, but others have been able to put into us, they have fed us, they have infused in us, and if we have had that opportunity, it's up to us to then pass that along. That's how we learn from each. I can remember many people who have said, don't rock the boat. Stay in your lane and go and keep quiet and go along so that there is no issues with you. Where would we be?
If there were people that weren't going to challenge the existence of things that were apart? Where would we be if there was nobody that said, we deserve a group of people and we would call ourselves the Ontario Black History Society? Where would we be if we had somebody who was told because he was a black man in this country, born here of West Indian parents?
How many decades ago who had a feeling to do the very best in sport, especially hockey, where would we be if, when Herb Carnegie was told, no, you can't give anything. If I could turn you white, and he sat down and did nothing. If he didn't do something, we would not have had future races. We wouldn't have had thousands of students impacted by what he did in making sure that all people were included because of the discrimination he faced.
So if he sat down on his orals and poor will with me, look at the number of people that would not have been impacted by his fabulous future ACEs cream. We need to speak up and I would tell students, I would tell children, there's never a problem in speaking up. It is how you do it, and never lose the respect for yourself.
And make sure that when you finish speaking up, when you continue to wanna do the best that people can say to themselves, oh, here it goes so and they are confident in wanting to leave this world in a better place.
I'm hearing you say, Ms. Janice, as you responded to our questions that I should recognize the fact that I'm standing on the shoulders of people who broke walls down, who created the path for us to be walking and we need to acknowledge them and I'm glad that you mentioned Carnegie's name and one thing that I would like to throw into the pot would be someone like Judge Stanley Grisel, who broke walls down and eventually became a citizenship court judge.
Lots of people around who, because of what they did, we are who we are, and we are carrying the baton because they passed it on to us, and I think we need to be thankful.
I could just see, as you have said Rita, the name you called the name, and that is what I look to in my growing up. All of those people who have passed on, even including my own parents, my grandparents, and listening, and I'm so glad I was listening because the generational knowledge you cannot replace. When people have that experience and they speak, and sometimes they're not even aware, they're telling you a story of themselves. We listen and we learn from it.
And when we look at what they had to go through, and now because they continue to persevere. I am the beneficiary of their hard work. I wanna be able to say that somewhere out there and there are students who are big people now that may, call up, and say, just letting you know, I remember when da dah, and this is what I am doing now. Or I remember when we had that outing, or I remember when we had that speaker. I remember when you told us this or that.
We have a responsibility to leave this place by again, sharing and being able to contribute what it is that we were able to do in our lines.
Ms. Janice as a principal for three schools in Toronto we are speaking about educational investment. How much personal involvement did you have with the children you supported?
So when you say personal involvement taking it like an interest in them or outside of school? Cuz there's two thoughts there. As an administrator, and that would be, even today, one has to be very mindful and careful. I would say more so as to the kinds of things that one does along with students outside of the parameters of the school or the school board. You always show that interest. There are things that you know, you would be told about, invited to. There's nothing wrong with saying yes.
To certain things because you're still representing not only yourself, but also the school, the board. And you show the interests of course, when things happen in their own families, if there are deaths in the families and the true sickness in the family, the things that you do as a principal quietly. That would be the personal touch that I would say it's not just about the, eight 30 till four when the students are with you.
It's the interest that you show in them and also that counseling piece that they can trust you. But you also have to know the parameters in which you are working and being able to do things cuz when you cross any line, which thank God I, I have never done that in that way, but people can get caught in doing certain things that they really cannot do in the role of educator in the school board. So there are things that you, when people know you care, they just know you care.
And there are always ways to show that, and I am pleased for that people could say that of me, but I don't do it. So they could say it. It's just that it's something in me to make that difference. People will watch what you do, what you say. There can be slips along the way. People have to learn. But we can't expect that if we did something 10 years ago that it may be forgotten 20 years from now.
You have to be mindful as to what you do, what you say, what you post on Social Media, all the rest of it.
Ms. Janice Ursula Clark Searles, my mom used to sing a song. How can I say thanks?
Oh, I love that! I sing it too! How can I say? Thanks.
So how can Elton Brown and Rita Burke and SpeakUP! International, say thanks to you for inspiring, educating and informing. I don't know how to say that. Thanks. But I'll. Anyway, thank you. Thank you. Thank you indeed for being our guest on SpeakUp International.
Thank you so much, Rita, for inviting me to be a part and thank you to you Elton, for also being a part of this, a very worthwhile podcast and speaking up and appreciating that I had something to offer. I do appreciate that and I appreciate all of what you have allowed me to reflect on in my life and the people who have met so much and the people that I've met along the way, like you, Rita, you and your husband, Sam, from how many decades back?
And you are still pushing along to be sure making that difference with so many and to you, Elton, again, thank you. I know my husband, was is a pastor of Christ Church, British Methodist Episcopal Church in Toronto has that same in feeling of being able to do for others and to always give back and let us pray that our world is better because all of us have been in it.
Thank you very much! Thank you for listening to SpeakUP! International. For more information about our guests, Ms. Janice. Ursula Clark Searles and her professional services, please visit her website. https://bit.ly/JaniceClarkeSearles. If you would like to have a conversation with us SpeakUP! International, please drop us a message containing your name, company, name, and email address. to info@speakuppodcast.ca. You can reach us at using Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn.
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