What gets me excited about aviation is we're now moving into a place where we recognize that customers are our core business. And so we're developing solutions that are designed to solve problems for our customers, to deliver that exceptional experience and to transform travel. I'm John Torrick, and I'm Danny Sullivan. And you're listening to Speaking of Design, bringing you the stories of the engineers and architects who are transforming
the world one project at a time. Picture the last time you landed after a long day of air travel. You're ready to get to your hotel, but first you have to wait to deplane, take the long walk through an unfamiliar airport, locate the baggage claim as well as your bags, and then find your ride. It's not exactly anyone's favorite part of the journey.
Now imagine the relief of starting that vacation or business trip after a smooth journey without major delays, difficulty knowing where to go, confusion, or surprises. Everything happened just the way it's supposed to. Today, we have a different type of episode for you featuring a conversation with three aviation experts with a passion for improving the airport passenger experience. This roundtable discussion is moderated by Rick Pilgrim.
Rick is a principal transportation consultant at HDR and an industry leader for decades. Rick served at some of the highest levels of transportation organizations and is the former mayor of Beaumont, Colorado. Rick will be speaking with Bill Peduzzi, aviation director and civil engineer, with more than thirty years of experience advising airports on design and improvements. Esther Chitsinde, a senior environmental planner who worked for a
decade at Dallas Fort Worth International Airport. She now applies that experience to help airports develop streamlined NEPA processes, transform travel, and develop both responsibly and sustainably. And finally, Robert Fotanu, aviation lead in Canada. Robert uses his decades of experience on terminal projects from Abu Dhabi to Singapore to understand and anticipate trends in the global aviation industry. And now, their conversation with Rick Pilgrim.
Today, we're gonna talk about aviation and the process here, for designing for passenger optimization. We all know that air travel is changing, and there are big changes on the horizon. So we've got three subject matter experts with us today to talk about the ways that we are approaching design from a pragmatic and a rational standpoint.
That often, there are some great ideas about providing iconic architecture, designs that really reflect what a community or a city is expressing and improving the passenger experience. Bill, on a broad level, what are some of the biggest challenges that airport operators are facing? Certainly, across the the world, there are a number of capacity constraints, growth constraints.
But the item in the area, the dynamic that I've noticed has become a particular challenge for our aviation clients is the expectation that technology has created in the passengers' lives. And so if you think about your daily life where you're not flying and all the things you can do off of your smartphone where you can order the most obscure item, pay for it with click of a button or a swipe, and the next day it shows up at
your house. And you don't see all that logistical brilliance that goes on behind there, almost a miracle in this environment. But at the same time, we expect everything to work that way seamlessly. Well, that's a massive challenge when it comes to processing people through an airport facility, and sometimes that
can lead to frustrations. And I think that it's very hard for our industry to match the pace of progress where, you know, the newest app and the newest technology and and advancement can get us to a place where it's seamless to the user. We've gotta put up construction barriers and cones and divert and slow things down at times to make improvements. They don't all just happen
when your app updates while you're sleeping. Esther, you had the opportunity to work for DFW, One of the busiest airports in the world, actually. And maybe you could share some of the issues that airport or airports of that size are dealing with. Yeah. To Bill's point, changing customer and employee expectations are really a challenge for airports in addition to the challenges presented by climate change, aging infrastructure, and the need to deliver safe and efficient operations.
So when you think of changing customer experience, think of things like delayed flights, delayed or lost luggage. Those cause a lot of uncertainty for customers, and different airports across the world have gone through this process of developing customer journey maps to identify customer core needs and what happens when those core needs are not
met. I had not heard the term customer core needs before, but you're, right on with that because the customer is the person that is in a different environment than what they see on a daily basis. And these core needs include things like time, so wait times, congestion, access to early backdrop, touchless journey throughout the airport. Things like control.
Controls a core need because a customer wants to be able to use, like Bill said, an app to understand how do they map out their journey within the airport environment and how do they make it as comfortable and as efficient,
as easy as possible for themselves. If you look at DFW recently, they deployed an innovative artificial intelligence assistance within the terminal so that those people that don't want to interact with a human being, which is something that research during COVID showed that people were now concerned about those direct interactions, but they still need help. They still need something that provides that support.
So leveraging that technology to start delivering and supporting these core needs is very imperative to success of of an airport. So things like knowledge, airport awareness, things like visibility and understanding where they are. So providing wayfinding support, especially within an app that a customer can control, as well as finding ways to reduce stress levels. So things like an airport that allows me to order food on my way to the airport such that I can pick it
up or it's delivered at the gate. That's giving me options. That's giving me flexibility that is meeting my expectations as a customer. That's quite a perspective, Esther. So helping them to navigate what can be at times a very large and unfamiliar location with people traveling so frequently and doing that around the globe. So, Robert, what have you seen as far as challenges and serving the core needs of the customer? So I I would like to pick up on Esther about the passengers and the their
behavior. So we we have to understand that there are different types of passenger, and they all have different priorities and expectation. Business passenger versus low cost passenger versus charter, you know, vacation, family travel, they all want something else in our airport. As Esther said, the most common issue is related to the long queues and wait time faced by passenger with secondary issues being retail offering and dwell area amenities. But why we are having these problems? The
biggest challenge is the increasing demand. The focus is that air traffic will double in the next twenty five years while the infrastructure cannot keep up with such a growth rate. The biggest challenge and constraint for our aviation system in the years to come will be related to terminal buildings and passenger processing areas. That's fascinating. Twenty five years.
But many times, the queuing space and throughput for processing facilities are sized for certain demand and level of service standard based on the planning they fly schedules. So we cannot design for Thanksgiving or for Christmas days or, you know, March breaks and so on. So we know that the best we can get will accommodate ninety
fifth of the percent of the demand. So the required capacity sometime has to look at it in what we call capacity demand analysis of advanced passenger flow simulation to understand how to integrate all processor from curb to the gate and back. Any disruption in an upstream process will greatly affect the all the downstream facilities. Similarly, improvements in a certain area of the airport may negatively impact facilities elsewhere unless the entire system is resized.
So capacity demand analysis is a critical we built at HDR simulation models to allow us what if scenarios to evaluate the impact of technology, changes in legislation, or changes in passenger behavior. All these elements will determine the moment when the facility upgrades are required, and we can visualize performance of the future facility while under design. At the end of the day, what's the biggest asset of an airport? It's the runway.
It's the only element that allows an airport to exist, to have planes taking off and landing. After that, all the other boxes that are terminals, logistics subs, everything else can be rearranged, reorganized, and so on as long as we have the runway system in place and can deal with the peak demand. What you said is that the airfield has the capacity to get us twenty five years ahead, but the terminals and and the boxes, that's the real challenge. Robert, let's stay with
you. And can you tell us a little bit about the capacity demand analysis that you've mentioned and how that maximizes the terminal resources? Yeah. So the capacity demand analysis, fundamentally starts from where we are right now. What's the forecast for the future, and how we're gonna deal with that forecast? So the part of my job that what I really love about my job is that I I live in the future. I'm always twenty five, thirty years in advance to to the current times.
And, obviously, the future, as everybody knows, forecast is always wrong. So the future is always with a certain interval of errors, standard deviation. So we try to develop the moderate, the most probable, and the highest demand levels. We look at what happens in the status quo, and then we build simulation models, and we determine things like how the future will build. That leads me to the question of how do you develop a vision for airport improvements?
Bill, you've just been finishing the work for the new Pittsburgh Terminal, which was a wholesale change of that airport. How do we work with a city or a governing agency in an airport to help them with their aesthetic vision? We've talked about passenger expectations, and why doesn't my airport work like my app, essentially. Right? Our incredibly talented architecture teams talk about empathetic design, and that's really what
it is. It's having empathy for the passenger and thinking about they're not just a simulation dot on a computer program. Right? These are families. These are people that that may be rushing to get to where they need to be that have anxiety. The passenger experience part is where I think there's some real fertile ground. And Esther and Robert talked about technological applications to help with that, and I think that's always gonna be at the core
of how we address those challenges. On the experience side, a lot of it can be little things. And what this comes down to, for example, curb experience, even at airport terminals that are generally regarded as the better ones, can sometimes be a pretty tough experience. They're loud. Sometimes they're dark. They're crowded. There's a lot of vehicles moving with people that aren't unfamiliar at times with where they need to go, and that's not always a
great mix. We believe that you can the passenger experience really starts on the roadway, on the way in to the airport. So that's one of those things where I think that we can make a big difference. Quick example. We're working with some clients right now on some new terminal programs where we're developing some seating on the arrivals curve level. You've got people that have just picked up their bags, perhaps have had a long day, a long flight, maybe a long couple of days, and they
just wanna wait to get picked up. Well, in most places, where there is seating, it's kind of an afterthought. It's stuck in a way that is out of the way. One of the things we've been able to do is integrate furniture into the bollards that that protect the facility from the vehicles. And so by doing that and creating that structure, you're now putting the seating in a prominent location, so it's much easier for people that are picking up to
find their rides. That's very interesting, Bill. I'm gonna look for seating at the arrival level. And then the second thing is if you think about it, when you're sitting there, when there is furniture on a curb, it typically is facing straight out from the building while all the traffic is coming from the left. So why not orient that to the left and just make that one little change for waiting passengers who might have a bit of anxiety about the curb and everything else
and take that away from them. And it's something you probably wouldn't even notice, but now they're facing a little bit oriented towards the traffic coming, much easier to see, much more visible to the people picking them up, and really no difference in cost. But, again, more of that user experience where they don't even realize that, hey. That was easy, or that was a little bit less stressful than it normally would be. Esther, could I ask you
to revisit DFW again? The airport has been going through quite a renovation or remodeling over the last five years. What are your observations about how the airport approaches setting a vision? I wanted to add to Bill's ones because I just thought about the importance of light lighting, intentionality, and empathetic design. And at DFW, we actually had a great example where we're leveraging technology to improve comfort, reduce stress for the passenger.
And what we did was we deployed dynamic glass, which is electrochromatic glass that auto tints, reduces the amount of lighting entering a building, and also reduces the heat loading into the building. And we noticed that customers were more comfortable and light sitting in those areas. But a co benefit that was exciting was we also noticed that the concession years in those areas started getting higher sales. So their sales increased by a 1%.
So that intentionality not only improves the customer experience, but has a direct business correlation and business benefit for an airport. So at DFW, they ended up deciding to invest in dynamic glass for all the terminals and program that into the renovation and rehabilitation programs as well as new buildings. So now back to your other question with regards to the importance of aid and vision.
At DFW, when that vision was being developed, it was developed from a perspective of wanting to transform travel. So prioritizing customer experience and delivering exceptional experience, leveraging innovation, sustainability, and leveraging technology to improve efficiency, be it on the land side or air side, reduce operating cost, future proof assets, and build resilience.
And so what we noticed that that vision was imperative because it created a shared mental picture for the future that we as an airport desired. It was that unifying, inspiring, and creative vision that created infectious energy and enthusiasm within the airport employees, the consulting partners, and all the other business partners that are participating. And then it also served as this guiding light and something that was being used to
inform strategic decisions. A very comprehensive vision plan and and then converting that into implementation. And so, Robert, when you have been working with different airports and especially some of the newer ones that are coming online in, as you mentioned, The Middle East or across the globe, what's the dynamic that you see that's most important? So we we are talking generally about the fact that there is no integrated experience in aviation for passenger from origin to destination.
Each element has different standards and expectation. Transfer to and from airport, you know, outside land side experience is separate from the what's happening in the airport, on the ground experience, and definitely different than what's happening in the air as an experience. Even inside the airport, this area related to passenger flow has different level of service standard, and they are controlled by different stakeholders. Checking an aircraft boarding experience is airline domain.
Security and immigration is government. Retail concession, dwelling area, baggage system, and others are under airport influence. So all these stakeholders have to come to the table and try the common ground. However, they have different priorities, legislation, and objectives. And I've heard you often say that airports are like small cities. They require
everything that engineers and architects can offer. The overarching connector is passenger experience, and that is different defined by all those stakeholders. And, yeah, we have the new development in technology and digitalization combined with data sharing between stakeholders that start to create clear benefit and opportunities for collaboration between them. So there are many, many, many aspect. But I try to understand for the fact that airports will become more crowded.
And one way to improve passenger satisfaction is to create an aesthetically attractive environment for dwelling areas. If terminal must stay within the existing footprint, we can expect more vertical development inside the building. So it is particularly important for hub airports where the most people remain in the airport to capture somehow the city, what the city has to offer
on the local style. So sometimes we can see the city coming inside the airport so they cater to these transit passengers that in return, hopefully, one day will come to actually visit the city and that they will be really attractive from a tourist perspective. We have to change the concept. Airport should be a destination rather than a processor.
I've seen this while working on Changi in Singapore where they build things like the Jewel or so on, some real malls, something to attract passenger, not only passenger, local communities to come to the front of the airport and enjoy being close to the airport. It's amazing to be in a hotel or some kind of commercial venue close to an airport and watch those planes taking off and landing. And people around the world love airplanes. That's the bottom line, and
they love traveling. Thanks, Robert. That is an important function of an airport is to give a sense of where am I. And even if I'm not gonna go out into the city, it's important to be able to convey what that city is all about. I also think that over the next twenty five, thirty years, we're gonna see a lot of that integration of the airport more than just as a destination, not a processor. Esther, what comments do you have about the
future? I truly enjoyed hearing Robert share those insights, and it made me think of something that we used to talk about, especially during the early days of the pandemic when we realized that airports are mission critical facilities, not just a place that things pass through, but they're critical to the economies. For example, DFW Airport is responsible for about 37,000,000,000 of the North Texas economy. That is huge. Dallas Love Field contributes about maybe $5,000,000,000
to the North Texas economy. That's a lot of money being contributed by our airports. And in terms of the mission criticality, we have to find ways to, as I said earlier, design for flexibility, adapt policies, and adopt policies that are favorable to transformative capital programs. Considering the need for new infrastructure and future proofing and addressing aging infrastructure, we also have to leverage
digital technology. So things like digital twins that allow us to run what if scenarios and understand what happens if we try to implement different solutions. Can we run those potential solutions in a digital replica that incorporates our physical operations and our dynamic operations? So live and historic data, can we integrate those things so that we gain situational awareness and start making decisions within the virtual environment?
Understand the implications for the airport ecosystem, understanding what a decision on the ground does to the airspace, what a decision on the ground does to the passengers, what a decision on the ground does to the surrounding communities, and then developing machine learning and artificial intelligence algorithms that can help us predict based on historic data and then eventually prescribe
solutions. And in twenty five years, we need to have an airport that, like Robert said, is a destination, but it also operates as a multimodal system that has even more complexity to it. If we can evaluate those solutions in a virtual environment, then we can get to understand what the implications are and what things to toggle so that we can get the best customer experience from whatever solution
we're trying to implement. To conclude with your comments just now about the different technological solutions and wrapping that up into a digital technology decision making process, I think that is a key part of our future. I'd like to thank you all for your terrific conversation today and the different perspectives.
I've learned an immense amount, and I have a much broader appreciation for the true understanding that each of you have about what our clients and and airport customers are looking for in the future. For more information on this podcast, visit hdrinc.com/speakingofdesign. You'll find links to pictures, articles, and more information. If you like what you heard, be sure to rate us or leave feedback on iTunes, Stitcher, or wherever you get your podcasts.