Speaking of Cults - podcast cover

Speaking of Cults

Chris Sheltonwww.speakingofcults.com
A podcast about cults, coercive control and recovery. Formerly called the Sensibly Speaking podcast, in this weekly show host Chris Shelton interviews cult survivors, psychologists and other professionals and specialists about the topics of cult recruitment, retention and recovery. This also includes non-religious cults and extreme political movements including the more divisive elements of MAGA and left-wing culture war issues. There is nothing off-limits but we always try to be respectful of the people involved even if we do not respect the beliefs or actions involved.
Last refreshed:
Follow this podcast in the Metacast mobile app to refresh it and see new episodes.
Download Metacast podcast app
Podcasts are better in Metacast mobile app
Don't just listen to podcasts. Learn from them with transcripts, summaries, and chapters for every episode. Skim, search, and bookmark insights. Learn more

Episodes

Speaking of Cults...The Post-Truth World is Making Us All Culty

This week I am breaking down the exact reasons why we are living in a post-truth crisis that is quite literally tearing apart the social fabric of our society and institutions. This has allowed populist, dictatorial types like Donald Trump to rise to power and start to destroy everything that has made America great. In addition to defining and explaining how this problem came about, I also offer some ideas of what we can and should be doing about it. It's not a good picture but it's not all doom...

Jan 25, 202532 minEp. 458

Speaking of Cults...Parasocial Relationships and Social Media

This week we posted the audio stream a little later than usual because we did something special - a live podcast. This particular subject of parasocial relationships with audience members is not a unique problem of YouTube but I thought there was never a subject that deserved an interactive approach with my audience as much as this one. Enjoy!

Jan 12, 20251 hr 7 minEp. 457

Speaking of Cults...What Mice Teach Us about Our Purpose

This week we take a dive into the work of ethnologist John B. Calhoun and the very unexpected results of his experiments, and most importantly what this means to us personally. It's a big-picture look, but that's what we do here, so enjoy! Here is the full script of the episode: Hello and welcome back to the Speaking of Cults podcast. I am your host, Chris Shelton. Usually on my podcast we circle around obvious cultic behavior and interviews with former cult members but lately we’ve been taking ...

Jan 04, 202516 minEp. 455

Speaking of Cults...Does our Economy Create Cults?

This week I have some economic issues to bring up which I believe help explain not only current ideological divides but also why there has been an apparent rise in cults for the last many decades. It's a big-picture look, but that's what we do here, so enjoy! EPI article cited: https://www.epi.org/publication/charting-wage-stagnation/

Dec 28, 202434 minEp. 454

Speaking of Cults...Recovering from Religious Trauma with Helen Greene

This week I welcome Helen Greene, a volunteer worker at the Freedom from Religion foundation and a wonderful guest to talk about the experience of religion (traditional and otherwise) on our psyche and what some people experience when they try to leave religion behind. Enjoy! I'm trying out a new thing this week of including a summary of the podcast. Religion, Spirituality, and Deconversion Journey In the meeting, Chris and Helen discussed their experiences with religion and spirituality. Helen ...

Dec 21, 20241 hr 1 minEp. 453

Speaking of Cults...Scientology, Auditing and the Sea Org with Julie McKernan

In this show, I welcome again Julie McKernan to take what I hope you'll agree is a much deeper and more nuanced conversation about what it's like to be in a cult like Scientology than you'll usually find. We cover a lot of territory in this show about how Scientologists and the Sea Org relate. Enjoy!

Dec 14, 20241 hr 15 minEp. 452

Speaking of Cults...Can Fiction Work Help Expose Cults? with Sadie Hoagland

We are back from our November hiatus with an interview about cult fiction by author Sadie Hoagland. This is particularly important to the ex-cult space because there are tools of exposure available to fiction authors that can help inform and raise awareness about cult phenomena that non-fiction work can miss or ignore. Enjoy! Sadie's website: https://sadiehoagland.com

Dec 07, 202458 minEp. 451

Speaking of Cults...Scientology's Repeating Pattern of Abuse ft. Julie McKernan

This week's show is an interview with 2nd gen, former Scientologist Julie McKernan, a woman who has a long and fascinating tale to discuss about her growing up in Scientology, what it meant to her and what happened to her including a shockingly horrible incident that occurred to her as a minor which the Church of Scientology enabled and covered up. Unfortunately, this is a pattern this cult continues to engage in up to now. We cover a lot of territory in this show. Julie can be reached at RightO...

Nov 02, 20242 hr 24 minEp. 450

Speaking of Cults...A Reformed Sociopath's Origin Story with Shawn McCraney

This week I welcome Shawn McCraney, artist, pastor and someone with a story to tell of an abusive upbringing, a violent past and a reformed mental state due to the influence of religion and learned empathy. We talk about a wide range of issues and go deep on some religious issues as well. Enjoy! Shawn's website: https://ShawnMcCraney.com

Oct 19, 20241 hr 15 minEp. 449

Speaking of Cults...Not So Shiny or Happy People with Dr. Clint Heacock

This week I welcome author and former Evangelical pastor Dr. Clint Heacock to share his new work, Not So Shiny Not So Happy People about his upbringing and early adult life in the Evangelical world where physical and spiritual abuse were not only part of the picture but were mandated activities. Clint answers a lot of my questions about this and his escape from it and how we can discuss it now. Enjoy!

Oct 12, 20241 hr 21 minEp. 448

Speaking of Cults...Growing Up a Child of Scientology with Pamela Nickel Williams

This week I welcome author and former Scientologist Pamela Nickel Williams to discuss her upcoming memoir, Clearly Lies are True about her life growing up in and around Scientology and the Sea Org. It's a harrowing tale and we go into a lot of detail about the beginning days of the Sea Org here. Enjoy! Pamela's website: https://clearlyliesaretrue.com

Oct 05, 20242 hr 34 minEp. 447

Speaking of Cults...What Does it Take to DeCult? (with Anke Richter)

This week I welcome Anke Richter, journalist, author and organizer of the DeCult Conference in New Zealand on Oct 20, 2024. Anke and I have a very informative and interesting conversation this week about cults around the world, her own experience in a sex cult and what she has been doing to educate about and get regulations enacted for cults. Enjoy! Anke's website: https://AnkeRichter.net DeCult conference: https://decult.net

Sep 28, 20241 hr 4 minEp. 446

Speaking of Cults...Where Neuroscience and Cults Meet ft. Ann Betz, PCC

This week I welcome Ann Betz, author and coach, who has not only had her own experience with a cult-like Large Group Awareness Training but has also done graduate work in neuroscience and has a lot to say in helping explain why we can all be susceptible to coercive control. Enjoy! Ann's website: https://BEaboveLeadership.com

Sep 21, 20241 hr 59 minEp. 35

Speaking of Cults...Is Traditional Catholicism a Cult? ft. Anthony Spurgin

This week I welcome back Anthony Spurgin, a man who previously shared his story of growing up as a Traditional Catholic, to discuss the movement in more detail, how its loosely structured and whether this is actually a cult or not. Enjoy! Anthony's YouTube channel: @TheDragonsofVictory

Sep 14, 20241 hr 40 minEp. 445

Speaking of Cults...What You Don't Know About Critical Thinking ft. Melanie Trecek-King

This week I welcome back educator, author and amazing guest Melanie Trecek-King to discuss critical thinking, her work as an educator and we go deep on the aspects of critical thinking that do not get talked about enough anywhere, including in the ex-cult spaces. Enjoy! Melanie's website: https://ThinkingIsPower.com

Sep 07, 20241 hr 34 minEp. 33

Speaking of Cults...Overcoming Child Abuse in Religious Groups ft. Dr. Maurice Turmel

This week I welcome Dr. Maurice Turmel, a clinical psychologist with decades of experience treating religious trauma syndrome and author of Breaking the Spell of Religion. We discuss the negative attitudes and behavior that are often present in deeply religious households and dealing with that later in life. Dr. Turmel brought some great points to this conversation. Enjoy!

Aug 31, 20241 hrEp. 32

Speaking of Cults...Religious Extremism in America ft. Rev. Ben Cremer

This week I welcome Reverend Benjamin Cremer, a Christian pastor and religious influencer who has some very positive Christian messaging to fight back against the more extreme versions of Christianity that are trying so hard to take away the rights of all Americans to worship the way they want or to not worship at all. Rev. Cremer was a true joy to speak with and brought some great points to this conversation. Enjoy! Reverend Cremer's blog: https://benjamin-cremer.ck.page

Aug 24, 20241 hr 50 minEp. 31

Speaking of Cults...The Threat of Pseudoscience in Health

This week I welcome Dr. Jonathan Stea, a clinical psychologist and author of the new book Mind the Science, to discuss pseudoscience in physical and mental health fields and how this can create even more problems for those of us seeking real help. In this show we cover what some of the big and obvious red flags are of this kind of scammy nonsense and what you can look for that might tell you that something is legit as a cure/remedy. Enjoy! Jonathan's site: https://jonathanstea.com

Aug 17, 202457 minEp. 30

Speaking of Cults...Project 2025 and Christian Nationalism

This week I welcome Dr. Clint Heacock, a former Evangelical minister who has spent years taking apart the Christian Nationalism movement and efforts by various political groups to turn the US into a theocracy. The roadmap to do that is Project 2025 and we break down what this is about here. Enjoy!

Aug 10, 20241 hr 22 minEp. 444

Speaking of Cults...Christian Fundamentalism is a Cult ft. Tia Levings

This week I welcome Tia Levings, author and survivor of very serious abuse at the hands of not only her Christian Fundamentalist ex-husband but by the entire "purity culture" mindset she was raised in which permeated every aspect of her life. Tia describes very clearly how this is a destructive cult environment and is purposefully created to enforce extreme ideas of gender roles, sexual morality and compliance. Tia's website: https://tialevings.com

Aug 03, 20241 hr 23 minEp. 443

Speaking of Cults...Staying SAFE After a Cult

This week I welcome Reverend Doctor Kenneth Garrett, a Portland-based minister who not only has his own survivor story as a former cult member but who has worked to help setup a community support group for former cult members which has had great success and which anyone can do in their own area. We discuss all of this and more. Enjoy!

Jul 20, 20242 hrEp. 442

Speaking of Cults...Diving Deeper into the 2x2s

This week I welcome Pamela Bowen, a third-generation survivor of the 2x2s, the "cult with no name" which has been appearing in media lately, and rightfully so as it's a religious cult that has enabled a great deal of sexual abuse. This is a harrowing episode but ultimately a successful escape from a destructive cult. Enjoy! Pamela on Twitter/X: @PamelaHuanani

Jul 13, 20241 hr 37 minEp. 441

Speaking of Cults...Foundations of Cult Recovery ft. Christian Szurko

This week I welcome Christian Szurko, a cult recovery consultant who has been helping people in their post-cult life for as many decades as I've been alive! Christian and I discuss key principles of cult indoctrination and recovery in this episode. Enjoy! Christian's website: https://dialogcentre.org.uk/

Jul 06, 20241 hr 45 minEp. 440

Speaking of Cults...The Blame Game and "Being Cause"

This week I am talking about how responsibility, causation and blame are used by cult leaders/predators to psychologically enslave their targets with guilt and gaslighting and how this can create not only unrealistic expectations or goals but can trap a person in a prison of belief.

Jun 29, 202448 minEp. 439

Speaking of Cults...Are LGATs Really Just Cults?

This week I welcome Dr. John Hunter, a psychologist from South Africa who has done some amazing and detailed research on the neurological and psychological factors at play in Large Group Awareness Training systems (such as Est, Landmark and many others) going all the way back to the 1970s to now. We cover a lot in this podcast about how these LGATs were started, what they are doing to the participants and why this is deceptive as a practice. Enjoy! Dr. Hunter's website: https://JohnHunterPhD.com...

Jun 22, 20242 hr 26 minEp. 438

Speaking of Cults...Bringing an End to Coercive Control with Rod and Linda Dubrow-Marshall

This week I welcome guests Rod and Linda Dubrow-Marshall, who created and run the Masters program at the University of Salford in the psychology of coercive control. We had a great deal more to discuss than just the program and dived deep into the legal and ethical problems with cults and how coercive control touches on so many aspects of our lives. Enjoy! Salford University site: https://www.salford.ac.uk/

Jun 15, 20241 hr 52 minEp. 437

Speaking of Cults...Jonestown: Paradise Undone

This week I welcome guest Annie Dawid, author and professor of creative writing here in Colorado. In this very wide-ranging episode we discuss the history, psychology and life of Jim Jones and the People's Temple as described in a historical fiction novel that Annie wrote. Enjoy! Annie Dawid's website: https://www.anniedawid.com/

Jun 08, 20241 hr 45 minEp. 436

Speaking of Cults...The Big Problems in Landmark Forum

This week I welcome guest Anne L. Peterson, author of "Is This a Cult?", her experiences working in and for Landmark Forum including her multiple interactions with Werner Earhardt, the founder of Est and Landmark. Enjoy! Anne Peterson's website: https://isthisacultbook.com

Jun 01, 20242 hr 30 minEp. 435

Speaking of Cults...How to Stop Cults from Getting You

This week I offer a discussion on Carl Sagan's "baloney detection kit" and how it helped me learn a more scientific way of thinking and how to avoid manipulation, propaganda and pseudoscience before it became a huge problem. Enjoy!

May 25, 202456 minEp. 434

Speaking of Cults...Let's Demystify the Scientology E-Meter

This last weekend I produced my final analysis/breakdown video on Scientology practices and the subject was the E-Meter, the "religious artifact" that L. Ron Hubbard claimed could unerringly detect and bring to the surface emotional "charge" that was holding everyone down and keeping them from achieving their true potentials. Was he right? Not even close and in this extensive breakdown of the E-meter and Hubbard's writings about it, you are going to understand exactly what Scientologists believe...

May 20, 20241 hr 46 minEp. 433
For the best experience, listen in Metacast app for iOS or Android