Return on Top of Mind Awareness with Spencer X. Smith CEO AmpliPhi Social Media Marketing

This is a fun filled day of golfing of [inaudible] activities at pleasant view golf course here in Middleton, Wisconsin, and 100% of the proceeds go to Alex's lemonade stand foundation for childhood cancer research. We have a big goal to raise over one point $5 million by 2028 we'd love to have you involved, whether it's through sponsorship or to show up and play some golf that day.

To do that, go to www.drivingoutchildhoodcancer.com again, that's www.drivingoutchildhoodcancer.com this event has raised tens of thousands of dollars over the past two years for Uwa Children's hospital and we'll continue to do that work until we get to that 1.5 million by 2028 are right today. I am very pleased to have Spencer x Smith journey me on the podcast.

For those of you that don't know Spencer, he is the founder of amplify social media strategies and he's also an instructor at University of Wisconsin and Rutgers University Mini Mba program where he teaches classes on social media strategy and social selling.

He's had the privilege of giving over 200 speeches since 2015 so he's been busy including at the New York stock exchange in 2017 his company amplify has also won the in business executive choice award for Social Media Consulting Company for three consecutive years now.

Spencer has also been featured and quoted in Forbes magazine, the Huffington Post, Money Magazine, Entrepreneur, inc magazine, Yahoo, small business advisor, MSN money, Costco connection, which he recently told me is the most publicated a magazine in the country and writes this column for Social Biz for in business magazine. He also is the coauthor of the book Retama, the Roi of social media top of mine. So Spencer, welcome to the show. I'm excited to dive right in with you today.

We're very interested, hear your thoughts on social

I couldn't touch it at all. So I thought, well, if I left the securities business, give it my licensing, and actually started to exploring these things, perhaps we could use it for good. And that's what's what's happened as a result.

We have five. There are five of them. So yeah, and it, and the other piece of this that a lot of people don't realize, it's like, okay, it is a big world and whatnot, but you just kind of specialize in financial services, right?

Just kind of by happenstance started to come around and said, hey, you know, the stuff that you've been sharing for a couple of years, it's making sense and now our compliance is allowing us to do more. So it, it, uh, it was fortuitous that people saw me for awhile and then they finally were able to do something. Or you go slow bed or cruiser. It's coming around. There you go. Yes. Yes. It is not a speedboat. Yes. Been financial services by any means. So let's, let's talk, talk

So when you put something in a book and you have something physical and you give it to somebody, they go, oh wow, it's, if it's in physical form, it must be better than not. So that was really it man, is to get a message out there that's concise and something that people can page through, easily grab a lesson and then move on, go back to their day. So that was really the impetus for it is the most interesting as we say that.

So I have three books sitting out here on my desk, uh, and the physical then you say. So I listened to a lot of audible, but I also read physical copies. So part of my morning routine was reading. Um, and even the books that I listened to on audible, if I like I buy the physical copy, uh, I don't know for me like I liked the big bookshelf, uh, or I guess as a kid I always wanted that sliding ladder, a burning house, which I don't have yet. But in my next house that will be on the dream list.

Awesome. But uh, there is something too though. Psychology. So it's interesting you say that but I just resonated with that as I'm looking at the book sitting next to me and I'm thinking about my audible purchase, going to actual physical copy, even though I already heard the book.

Yeah. And what you brought up is, is it really good analog for when we talk about anything that's digital and social as well, is that if people can digest information in different ways, they're going to learn things in a different respect. Right? So to have both of those things where you hear in one year when you're maybe doing something else and then you focus your concentration.

I feel like the more that people can put out things like you were doing with this podcast or writing or videos or whatever it might be, you're going to hit a different audience at a different time and they're going to be effected by his resilience. And I, and I like doing my own, uh, cliff notes. So I'll highlight highlighter. I used to write hand write notes and now I have enough, uh, uh, staff power team power where I highlight and they take the notes for me and get them back to me.

Oh. But then that's nice is that I can go back to those versus growing room, rereading the entire book. I reread what was really important to me at that time or what I thought was interesting. And then I can share those two people as well. And then maybe they pick up the book because of that. Very cool. So, uh, what was it, what is the meaning or ideology behind Raton? I know you've told me a range of Sonoma, but yeah.

Yeah. So it's, it's a made up acronym I, he can disclose at first and it stands for return on top of mind awareness. And my goal there was when we would go out initially about 2015 or so, when we talk about social media, digital marketing, people go, yeah, what's the Roi? Yeah, go, okay, but let me just tell you what I used to do as a sales guy, where I'd make all of these calls and in person meetings just with hopes that people think about me at the opportune time.

So that's where I figured out the return on top of mine. Awareness is basically if people are thinking about you or they're not, because if they go long enough without thinking about you at all, they forget when they have an opportunity. So that's the idea. It's just keep showing up, keep showing up, adding value, and then perhaps a get an opportunity. We're gonna talk more about that and the social media side of that, sir, right? Yes. Yes.

If you know of a friend or colleague that could benefit from listening to some of Madison's top leaders, give us a share. Now, back to our guests.

It was, um, it was something that, as I said, it was, it was really almost a demand put on me to say I need when I go out and give speeches or when people go, well, can you give me something that's indicative of what you do as opposed to pointing to a blog post. This is just a good encapsulation of that. So again, it's the, the gravity of having something physical.

So on that book side, for those that had that forethought as kids, or if, uh, if they now just have that tickle in their gut that they want to do that now, what advice would you give to someone that wants to write a book, Start and start writing as much as you possibly can in blog form? Would you be daily and then extract the salient points from that and then put it together? Because it's really, I don't see, your book is like the Walden pond thing.

Like I'm going to go to a resort or I a retreat of some kind for four months and just pound out everything and then suddenly I have this wonderful piece of work. It's really more so a collection of thoughts. And now, because there's no barriers to actually get into physical book, the more somebody can put something out there and just say, hey, this is me.

It's just people give it a different, a different feeling than they wouldn't be that worried about Ernest Hemingway, where you're just going to islands and get drunk. And that's an old, that's another option. The highest grade. So who is the book for? Who was a targeted that it's targeted at those in professional services that are responsible for business development. So people like you, attorneys, engineers, accountants, people who go, yeah, you know, this is just noise.

This is, you know, this social media thing that's for other people, not for me. And it's my goal to prove otherwise. Well that's good. Yeah. That's good. So you started your social media agency in 2017 yep. What struggles did you encounter starting the business and what have you learned from those? There is a really, really awesome architect that we need to come over from France in about the 1920s or so.

And he had looked at the skyline in New York City, romanticized about it, and he said, you know, this is something where if I could just make my mark here and have people look in New York in a different way, there'll be a wonderful thing. And he came up with this design concept called Maya, which is most advanced yet acceptable.

And what I didn't get when I first started my social media company was I was most advanced like, Hey, I'm, I'm, I'm probably going to bring you more complex ideas because they're better and harder and people go, we're not, we're not ready for that yet. And they didn't tell me that overtly. It was more like, Gosh, I really, we're not even to the point where we're dipping our toe in the water yet.

So the more that we could adopt this idea of most advanced yet acceptable, if we could sell them something they want, right. And then sell them what they need, that's where it suddenly started taking off. So that was the biggest impediment for us is I was just too early with too many ideas.

So That's interesting you say that because I think about myself as a business owner in many of the business owners that I've worked with over the years, there's so much demand on their time, on their resources. How do they place this? Like I'm just trying to think if we were over like all this stuff and all the demands and all the decisions we have to make them a day to day basis.

But let's say I'm going into annual planning and we have an obviously recruiting talent, developing talent, be uh, one of those top two being a good steward of our dollars. How do we go about placing this and that, those chain of things when it comes to how we, do any of you say that?

Yeah. So we're budgeting for next year and we're going to bring in your team or we're going to bring him and figure out how we're going to really craft social media are maybe were crowd, maybe I'm working with Chad over here on our marketing budget. How are we going to factor that in on the priority list?

Yup. Yup. And then so maybe that's different for someone that's 20 something versus 50 something, which I'm sure it is, but at what would, what advice would you give there as a really good question? A lot of it has to do with how we allocate budget and are we taking something that you were spending in one place and spending it somewhere else because that's less painful if you will.

Then somebody putting themselves out there and going, we've never tried this before, and if it doesn't work, I have to own it. And that's the big issue. Like if you're the VP of marketing at a reputable company, the last thing you want to do is mess up and get fired. So we try to look at the, the, from the standpoint of, you know, what are, what business objective are we going to drive? Is it more people knowing you when you walk in a room and go, oh yeah, I always see your stuff.

Or is it more educating those that might be in the pipeline or those that you already have on the books that you want to keep by way of dripping with educational material. So it's trying to back into whatever business objective we're trying to achieve first and then say, is this going to work or not? Let's go. Yeah, let's go. So what a board culture have you tried to build within your own or own organization?

What are some of the keys that you've, you know, really pleased to achieve that type of culture? The more that I can shine the spotlight on those that work with me or those that we're serving, the better off we are. You know that the, I think that the ego is the biggest enemy possible when it comes to those who run businesses. Because if you make it all about you, it's not just bad for culture, but what's going to happen when you can't do that thing that you were doing before, right?

Like, if you're the foremost expert in your time, demands are getting so restricted and you try to get someone else involved and they don't do it as well as you, how would that make them feel that they're forcing that position? So I feel like both internally, so highlighting your employees in staff meetings and that kinda stuff, but then externally as well, because it's essentially free on social media to brag about other people.

I just think it's a wonderful way to show public appreciation for those that perhaps when hear it otherwise. Yeah. And um, social media, you see that there's so much and then they can share that and then their network and see that and that's not such a great thing.

Um, I don't recall a story of sort of, uh, some people that I worked with in the past and the salesperson started earning more than the business owner and there was a ton of friction there and all of a sudden the friction turn into the salesperson that are top sales person no longer working there because ego got in the way and it wasn't a, like this situation was bad for the business and it was bad for the two individuals.

But it's interesting as we talk about that ego and making sure he was shine the spotlight because for the business owner, our return is going to come on the APP. Yes, it doesn't, that doesn't, but our sales now and what's growing, we've got to step that ego aside. So some advice I was given as I was taking over this organization was let your ego be big enough to defer to theirs.

Mm. And I thought it was really profound because I didn't want to, when it was first set, it was said quickly, you talk fast. And I was like, I was trying to process that. And because you're sitting there talking about let your ego be big enough, but then to defer to their ego. And, and I work with a lot of high producers and a lot of talented people.

And so what I got to make sure of and what I would encourage others to make sure of, like you said, shine the light on them and let them be that star and just take the back seat. That's what a leader does. Yes. So I was great at great advice. Thanks. Um, so let's dive into some of the social media strategies because that's your biggest focus on what you're really talented at. So I'd like to focus specifically on that.

So the social media, the strategies for executives and those in highly regulated industries like mine, such as the finance and obviously you mentioned the legal side of things, the on the law side of things. So how much opportunity are real opportunities there for executives and firms and these industries, financial, legal to really get out there. It's astounding to me.

So that the more that we think about what can I put out there that's either going to be educational or help highlight those with whom I work, our clients, our prospective clients, etc. And less about how do we sell more stuff, the better it is. So every compliance document that I've ever read in financial services, which has dozens and literally hundreds of pages, it's all about innocuous stuff.

Like, Hey, if you go to an event and you say, we had this great event and I'd like to give a shout out to this organization who supported us or whatever, compliance is totally cool with that because you're not saying buy this thing, I want to sell you this thing. So what I feel man is it's, it's, we were put in this position about 2012 2013 where it no one knew exactly what to do cause this is such a new phenomenon and they go don't do anything at all.

And if you do publish anything, here's something that we've already approved for you to say, which is just a commercial. You know, it's like it's about our company. And why it's so great and it's really stodgy legal. It is. It is. And it's the more that we can really bring out people's personality and you do a great job of this. I'm like, damn man, like bring out your personality of being, giving and being forthcoming with what it is that you can share with people.

That's just going to take your personality, make it bigger. And as you get more connections, more followers, people are gonna look at you and go, wow, who is this guy? Who's, who's confident enough to say, don't look at me. Look at these other people.

And I know I keep kind of harping on this, but every time I see it exists, especially if you have somebody with a c in their name somewhere, like CEO, COO, whatever, and he or she were to take that thing go, wow, I can publicly law the accomplishments of that. People with whom I work and they're not doing that. I'm shocked. I am absolutely shocked. Let me tell you a quick story.

So Home Depot is the fastest company ever to reach a 100 million sales, 200 million, 300 million, finally $1 billion in sales. Right? So the guy who was really important at that time, the CEO, I said, we have to figure out a way to highlight the stories of these great employees that we have in Miami and he's great employees that we have in Phoenix, but what are we going to do? So this is 15 years ago. He goes, well let's grab a camera.

We'll videotape these people telling their stories about how they hope this customer who came into Miami, well to get VHS tape and we'll send it over to Phoenix. And people really responded favorably to that. Like, oh, this is cool. Put in the break room, tell good stories. Okay, so you know what we can do? We can actually broadcast this all to all the stores. All we need to do is Lanch. Oh, excuse me. Lodge a satellite. So they did.

Home Depot launched its own satellite just so it could, sorry, just so it could broadcast the messages to all of these respective stores, which is interesting, which is bananas really. I Dunno how much that costs, but it was astounding. And now you fast forward and this was before space x before there's any kind of, you know, democratization of this.

So now you'd look at this and you go, well any of us at any time can use these mechanisms to brag about other people and what it is that they've done. And I just see so little of that happening. So whether it's goodwill, whether it's employee retention, employee attraction, whether it's client attraction, like the more that you can tell those positive stories, the better off you're going to be across the board.

And we know, I mean studies was sure where this millennial generation and and words coming up behind them are Gen z is like, that is one of the most important things that they really want to feel appreciated, really want to feel a part of something bigger than themselves. Whereas in your and i's generation, the baby boomers ahead of us, it was stand out individually. And uh, so I think that's probably where some of the disconnect comes in.

If you have, uh, you know, people were in the c suite with the baby boomer or a gen x or upbringing where they were taught to stand out and now they have to kind of reverse course and really applaud those that they're leading on the millennial side. Urgency side of thorns. And if I may, man, and you make a wonderful point because I think that's on 100% true.

What's really interesting when you dig into the psychology with those in the CSUITE is they go, well, who really wants to listen to me anyway? Like I'm important here within these walls. But if I go outside of this, why would anyone care what I have to say? And I go, my goodness. Like you've become so accustomed to being this important person at this company, you don't realize how you can transcend your organization and be important to all of these other people that could then look to you.

So it's almost as though they, they, they look at themselves and they go, I'm not that big of a deal. What I say doesn't matter. But um,

And you know, this was more, I have local people on here stuff and he's been really inspired by, by some of the words that I said. So the, you get that out there and then it reminded me of something my business coaches always told me. But this is more internal, but it goes for, I think across the board is you have zero idea, the power of the words you have on those you lead, you have no idea how much those words matter and just how words create worlds.

And so that as you were saying, we think that it's just internally in our organization because we are their leader, but how much our words can impact others. But now we think about that broadly, the social media influencers and some of the podcasts that I listen to, we have no relationship. They're not my boss, they can't do anything to my business per se.

But I listened to them and I learned from them and grow with them and I give the, you know, could give them the same feedback if I happen to run into them or had their email address and say, oh man, this is how much you've inspired me and to do what I do. And then how much I, and this is some of the principles that I've used in my business to help my people grow that you've taught me.

So when you think about it broadly like that, you're like, oh no Duh, like, but I think we get in our own mind in her own way thinking like, oh well we have to say it's not relevant to the outside world.

And what they discovered is amongst these bulletin board services, about 90% of people that were logged in, we're just spectators. They were there were silent. All they did was just take information. 9% actually engaged in some capacity answered questions that, that's a great comment. I'd like to follow up on that 1% though with those that we're posing the questions, they were the leaders of that group. And I think now they call it the 1% rule, the internet that applies entirely as well.

Like 90% of people online or are just observers, observers, right? Or what the kids called creepers are lurkers, right? 9% engaged and over 1%. Right? Shoals. Yep. And then 1% engage. I'm sorry, 1% create. And so you don't know until like your, your wife's cousin in Indiana, you don't know until he goes out of his way to go, oh yeah. By the way, it's like, well, why didn't you tell me that at the time was like, well, I don't know. I'm sure you're busy, Josh. Am I going to bother you?

It's like you affect so many people without knowing that you do. And until you start to get that feedback over time, you don't know how much of a difference you're making. Yeah. It's, it's true. So you mentioned, uh, earlier on, you know, brand or brand awareness, building trust, um, why, why is this so important? And what are some effective ways of doing that? You know, using social media, keeping top of mind, stuff of that nature.

It's, I think looking at this as the opportunity, there's the best opportunity there's ever been to broadcast publicly what it is that you do and what you care about. And as you talked about with the millennials and certainly the Gen z's is they're very, very focused on, you know, you purport to be this Chi style of company, this kind of leader. But are you really that person, your actions map to what it is that you claim.

And I think we need to get ahead of this now because if you've seen any semis on the road, they all have dash cams, right? In a lot of cars have that thing that's just recording people at all times. And pretty soon, whether it's snapchat spectacles or something, all of us are going to be recorded constantly. So if you're not living what you say are your true values, you got to get ahead of that right now and either declare new true values or start to act differently. Right?

So I feel like the more now we can really put out there to say, hey, if you're interviewing with somebody, they go, are you a team player? Oh for sure. Well looking at your linkedin activity here, all I see is you bragging about yourself. That doesn't seem to be a team player. Oh shoot. Right. So understand that if we have the ability to put ourselves out there and act in accordance with what it is that we claim, it's a really good way to get ahead of that conversation for them.

Or artificial intelligence will tell us that before, right. The, the mining of the data on all these social media websites should have know. Just got to have a meeting about that. Like it's, it's crazy. So there your, your employers are going to know that way before or potential employers world before you even getting that immediate yes. Yup. And you may not get that meeting because of it. Oh the, you talked about the on video all the time.

I was thinking through my head, just kind of funny because I hear all those no's pickers out there and the car wash yourself. So you drive by a number like, oh there's that guy picking his nose again. Now it's on video. Or now someone's going to made a some sort of meme out of it as far as, so how often should we be operating or engaging on social media? I feel like anything that's going to get you on the platform and give you good feelings before you get off the platform.

So it said another way, right? When I first usually open talks, I ask people, you know how many times have you scroll through your phone on Facebook had gone down the youtube rabbit hole and you go, oh my gosh, 45 minutes just disappeared. This stupid social media thing, I don't want to use this anymore, right? So we need to be disciplined with this. And so for the lawyers that are listening, they think it's six minute increments, right?

So you set a timer, literally set a timer for six minutes, do as much as you possibly can, which is thanking other people saying nice stuff on other people's toes. Exactly. Exactly. Just really, really simple stuff. Right? Timer goes off, you leave, you go, I got as far as I could and I'm done. And so after a while that cumulation of that activity is going to come back and you're going to go say, well wow, this is really a good six minutes I'm spending each day.

Why not spend 10 or 15 so it's, it's just doing little bite size pieces before you can validate yourself if makes sense to invest more time. So then for those on the opposite end of the spectrum, that may be spending too much time going down that rabbit hole or is it still the timer thing or what is, or is it the intense maybe that you're talking about the for them, yes.

So this doesn't work as well in audio is it wouldn't you and I in person, but the best boss I ever had, a sales guy said, Spence, when you're working, you have your phone to your ear when your phone is not your ear, you're not working. And I'm like, oh, that makes sense. I get it. So I ask people that when you have that phone and it's face down in your desktop and you open it, you bring it up and you look at it, are you going to use it to goof off or are you going to use it for work?

And either way is fine, but understand the delineation between the two. Because if you go, this is going to be work and I'm gonna put it back down, don't blend those lines. Right? It's like opening the Internet browser at work and going, oh shoot, I can go anywhere I want, you know, mine high goof off. So that's really, it. Is having that degree of discipline necessary to do those activities. That's really good.

Uh, another way where we've talked about this on the podcast before, be where your feet are. Yep. Is Our news that's universal to being at home. You know, there's a company out there, then it makes the lockboxes for your device. I don't know what the number, I can't give them credit. I don't remember what the name of the company is. But uh, we're as you can put your cell phone and the device, uh, that lockbox. So just picture a safe and it won't go in. It has a timer. So let's say three hours.

So you need to spend time with your family for the next three hours and then that phone from her mother, the Post lockbox. But that's how addicted we become during a certain ology. So we've got to use it for the good. And then uh, try and limit the bad though. Utilize it for as well. So what type of content works best for doing this? Sort of staying engaged, being social.

So in the end are, you talked about kind of the quick hitter things, but for the business out there, social media posts, whatever it may be, that, what would you say what works best to connect with people? I would say giving away the store as best as you possibly can. And what do you mean by the story? I know that there probably aren't a lot of plumbers that are listening to this right now, but if I'm a plumber, I'm making videos on here's how to fix a toilet, here's how to fix a leaky sink.

Basically give exactly what you would do you on camera, which most people would rebel against and go, my gosh, if I give away my best material, no one would hire me. And I think the exact opposite is true because people don't hire a lawyer. They don't hire a financial advisor to say, go do the stuff that I could do myself. They go look your Josh and the risk mitigation business. I'm going to give you this ownership so I can just walk away and go at least somebody else's taking care of it, right?

So the more that we can share, our very best ideas are to say, look, I know that people are going to run with these ideas and use them for free. Well, they're not your clients anyway. Don't worry about it. Right? But those that want to give you money, they want to see if you are who you say you are.

And the more that you can validate that through quality content that are off you are what was there when I said to you when we first met, uh, you said thanks for the likes and the engagement on social media. And I said, well thank you for the value. You wouldn't get the likes

So, and ride out there shoveling cause I got, I have a very strict morning routine that I stick to, uh, getting my kids to school. That's a good time for me to spend quality time with them. Uh, the MOH and the long thing that I have more time with the kids in the summer, it seems far fetched from where we're sitting right now, summertime.

But, uh, those things, so the plumbing side of things, even if that video comes out, I may or may not use it, but what I'm certainly going to do is a time value of money calculation in my head and call that person that put out the video. If I deem that it's not worth my time and I can spend that time with my kids, I'll say, yeah. So that's really good. What platform should businesses use?

I go, no, no, no. Just just pretend. Which social media platforms would you use at work? And they go, uh, well like I guess I could go on Linkedin. Oh so, so what you're telling me is your at work in work mode, thinking about work related stuff and you can go on there and if your boss walks by your desk extensively, you're working. That's what I want to do to produce content. If I'm targeting people who are in business because that's what they're consuming at work, right?

I've never once, cause I'm, I'm an airport's a lot, right? So I'm kind of that Weirdo who likes to look over people's shoulders. Like which, which APP are they using? Just so I see, I see a lot of mindless scrolling through Facebook and Instagram and Twitter. I've never once, never once seen somebody scrolling mindlessly through linkedin ever. But why would you, you go on Linkedin for work.

So let's work at linkedin first and if we can prove that that works for you and exhaust that, which I still haven't yet myself, but if you exhaust that, then perhaps consider the other social media platforms unless you're targeted

So then you could see the mindless scrolling. I guess with Linkedin

Like people are more purposeful with I'm ready to consume as opposed to I want to pretty pictures. That's good. That's great. And the term you used there as mindless roaring, there's a deliberate scrolling. So I think people in our listeners should know the difference there. Uh, or at least learn that difference now as being purposeful about what you allow into your, so I'm a big uh, no news proponent because most news is bad news and it's parts us into a tizzy and especially political stuff.

Just stop listening or watching it or having it come into your feed. You can unfollow and still be friends with people. So there are a negative Nancy in your Facebook feed and they're just putting out drama to the world and just looking for Facebook license, stuff of that nature. It's a file on them. There's no chain that says you are, you're tied to your desk and you have to follow this person, limit that stuff. So be deliberate about it and be in that intent out there. Most of them.

So, uh, for both, for businesses besides Linkedin, um, the other platforms, do you see much traction? Are Much, uh, uh, where are you suggesting to them? Anything outside of Linkedin to get more uses or maybe different generational stuff? For sure. For sure. Yeah. I mean, Facebook, there's a reason why they're making $5 billion in profit every quarter. And that's because they have the eyeballs of just everybody who's out there.

So Facebook recently announced they have 2.3 billion monthly active users, which is astounding. Right? And Instagram comprises a huge portion of that audience as well. Also, their kids come by, I know they own them, but they were combining those users between their face. Those are, those are unique, those uniques so that there's a lot of overlap, right? There is overlap, but they are unique users to Facebook. And then there are unique users to Instagram as well, about a billion.

They're also interesting. But what you know that this is what we call the creepy Facebook ad thing. Like why am I seeing those shoes? And the color I like in the size that I wear because you're going to go search a right and you've been on that website. So with, with Facebook and we call this retargeting, and this can happen on Facebook, linkedin, Twitter, you name it.

We say, Hey, let's grab all those people that have been on your website and let's constantly show them good stuff from you on Facebook or Instagram or linkedin or wherever they show up. So Facebook, I feel like they have the really, really good at mechanism put in place. Their advertising platform is probably four or five years ahead of linkedin in my estimation. So the more we can put out messages on Facebook, the better off we are.

And a lot of people, especially lawyers, rebel against this, like people don't want to hire lawyers from Facebook. I'm like, I'm like, well that's the point. They don't want to hire you. It's because they saw that you're doing great work in the community and you had this pro bono expectation that's put on you where you can say, hey, we're out here doing this wonderful charitable work. This is why it should endear you to us. Right? So it's not like go by or legal services.

It's like here's us just doing stuff in the context of when people have their Khakis additives as opposed to a suit and stay in top of mind like your book says is like if they're out there doing great stuff in the community, you may not need a legal services last year, this year or whatever, but you say, oh that's cool, this law firms during this and then the next time you need legal services that may stay of top of mind versus any other law firm that you could look up on Google search or

anything else. And also from a retention standpoint, men like that, the more people you can validate their idea to continue doing business with you and they see you come through their feed and you're doing wonderful stuff cause you're, I mean you live this a hundred percent your team, right? The more I see cosmic financial doing better and better stuff in the community, I go, yeah, I did make a great decision by choosing to work with them. Right?

So it's loving those customers that you already have as well. Yeah, and that's, that's our biggest thing is continue to do well on our community service side. Just getting more bang for the buck. And it feels better. Like if I can spend $10,000 marketing and bread, it's going towards charitable causes versus $10,000 putting up a sign somewhere. Eh, maybe I get the same rate of return maybe, but I can tell you the emotional rate of return on doing something charitable is, is it measurable?

Yes. So that's where it goes. So, um, what's the opportunity costs in your estimation of someone not engaging on social media? You know what a, cause I hear this from lawyers a lot too. They go, well, you know, I have enough business that I don't need to do social media. Like, okay, that's cool. I don't, I don't have any place to tell you audibly roll my eyes. But I mean, if that's what they're telling themselves, I'm, I'm 100% on board.

Like, I don't want to force anybody to do it, but I feel like what I used to do, just backing up. So when I was a four o one k wholesaler just started in the business, I used to make a trip from Madison where we are now in Indiana every single week, every single Monday, five and a half hours in the car, straight from about 2:30 AM to 8:00 AM central time. I was going to indeed, I don't know exactly the time it takes and, and you, you lose an hour cause you go from central eastern time, right?

So what I used to do is just hammer the phone and I just leave voicemail after voicemail hoping to educate advisors to say, Hey, I pitches form k plan last week. Here's how it went. I thought you might benefit from hearing this story. 164 targeted financial advisors was who I would call with a five and half hour period just to get them to think about me at all. And I feel like now it's so easy just to put stuff out there periodically have people go, oh yeah, I didn't think about him in a while.

Like why not? Why don't we reinvigorate this? Yeah. So that's the opportunity cost is us doing so many first coffee meetings and then people forget about you staying top of mind to sell. And you're right, it's so much easier. I, I heard of a story a early on in my career where there was a very well to do a client that it took him 20 years to land as a client.

The advisor was insurance agent at that time and uh, he sent him a birthday card every single year to stay at least relevant in a person's mind. The person kept putting them off, they were happy with their advisor or agent at that time. And uh, 20 years later wasn't so happy with the person was retiring. I can't remember the exact part how that they parted ways, but ended up working with this new person only on the fact that he stayed top of mind by sending a birthday card one time a year.

And now we can do that through emails and we have software that just allows us to do or we're not even pressing. The buttons were just so it into the system and boom, it's in their inbox just like that. Yes, and I think what you infer it is super important too because there's a insurance company that I won't name where I've been a client of theirs for a long time and I would get this Thanksgiving card that clearly was not sent from the agent and was not signed by the agent.

It had that kind of photo static signature. I'm like, this is really not even trying. Right. So to your point it's like we have to go at least a step further to personalize those things. But now because it is electronic, it's much, much, much more efficient as opposed to having to do things one on one younger. Absolutely. Right. So are there other ways to build awareness and trust for those of us through are not content creators.

It's by making purposeful comments on people that you are targeting as far as your clients or your perspective clients. So everybody and that this is interesting to you. You talked about the vulnerability, right? Every CEO that I've talked to eventually after spending a few times with her, she'll say, you know what? Um, what if I put something out there and no one cares? You know how that would make me feel like, what if I don't get any likes on my posts? It should even be doing this.

So everybody has an apprehension of pushing that publish button, the share button, and if you're the person that's out there making purposeful comments and I'm not talking about like, Hey, great post, and then they say thank you and then what you say back like thank you for thanking me. It's like, no, just two balls. Right? It's like make, make purposeful comments that allow that person then to say, Hey, I saw that you were writing about this.

I saw that you shared about this, you mentioned this. Could you expand on this just a little bit for me? Because then they go, oh no, I have permission publicly because you asked me to expand on something that perhaps I didn't think was important before. So it's by being very, very purposeful and being very targeted with those who you would like to serve.

And depending on the question, I mean maybe the, you'd have to have them Dmu or maybe they could answer it in a more public forum that gives other people education that they wouldn't have had prior to. I feel like that's the goal, right, is to have conversations in public. We're, all of these people are just out there on the periphery of watching and you have no idea the 90% that are observers. Yeah. Yeah. And that's, and that's, that's just great.

And I love the post that that you did and I copied it and shared it with that. A high school kid. The, the reached out to you and I loved it. I was like, shoot your shot. Like what do you have to lose? So for, for everyone listening, Spencer a, it was a last week. Yeah, I think it was two weeks ago. Two or zero was we go high school senior or reaches out to Spencer and uh, and [inaudible] was in reference to just like the stuff that you were doing.

And wanting to do that and talk with him about, so dude, I can't even imagine. I mean I get a lot of these, you probably get way more when people to people text you or email you or send you messages on linkedin saying I just like to pick your brain. It's like so I'd like free consulting from you and offer nothing in return. So he called me, he actually left me a voicemail, which is awesome cause I'm like what is this strange thing on my device? Right?

Because being a voice and he goes, hey you know you don't know me but I'm a senior at lake mills high school here in Wisconsin and I was looking at your Instagram profile and I had some ideas of how it can maybe make it better. And by the way, if we're together, I love to get your ideas on how I could do some stuff better as well. And that positioning, it made me want to err on the side of just giving more to him and what I said. Right. What, I'm sorry.

What I loved about when you shared, which you share what you said, you go, hey, you know, shoot your shot and pick up the phone and call somebody and why not, right. The worst you're going to hear is no. Right. And because you furthered the conversation that validated what he did. So think about how many people saw that post. Cause in my, my last number that I saw, I was like over 5,000 people viewed that post.

So just think about how empowering that might be for that high school or he goes, I could never reach out to somebody who you know, like this professional. It's like no man, you gotta you gotta at least twice my age or three times my age cause I think we have those in our specialty if we were raised in a household, there's a respect for your elders sometimes when you hear that respect your others thing, it makes you fearful of your elders.

And that shouldn't be the case because you can make are very respectful phone call and leave a voice, very respectful voice in there like he did to you. And this turns into a bigger thing than he ever. So that kid connected with me.

I don't know if that was on your, uh, um, pushing to do or not, or advice to do, but he connected with me and so, and he basically said, hey, you know, just really appreciate the, the like, and that, uh, you know, I'd love to follow you and see what business ventures you continue to go on. And if I can learn from those, I'm like, yeah, of course I'm going to accept that.

Yeah. So, uh, those, just a really cool example of, of, and I think there's so many, that's a, you know, I said young man, his son, my 17, 18 years old, there's so many people twice as age, they won't do the same thing. Yes. And so two things. First of all, it gave me goosebumps when you said that because it's so true. Right. But then people might go, well, you know that, that's great. Like I'm suspense. You have time to help high school kids. I don't, okay, fair, fair.

But think about that virtuous cycle where he did the outreach, but then I could share his story and everybody looks at us and go, that's, that's a really cool story. Thanks for conveying that Spence. What else do you have to say next? That's positive, that's going to help me feel good. So now I have permission to say something about other people. Right. So it's really, it's, it's, it's this wonderful win, win situation for everybody. So that's, I think there's a great segue.

Let's talk about relationships or building relationships on social media because that is really where the Gen z millennials are, you know? I mean, that's where all these dating apps have really come into play for us as well if we want to go to that level. But on the business side of things, what are some tips on how to do this appropriately? I think that's probably the key operative and what platforms should we be considering to do so? I love linkedin messaging because people get it.

People get the messages from you, even if they're not on Linkedin, linkedin will send them an email on your behalf that says, Josh hasn't messaged you. You might want to go check it out. But I feel like we have to have that opening salvo first. That's going to be beneficial to that person. So there's a company out there called zoom. They're out in San Jose. They're there, they're Unicorn, right? So are billion dollar company.

The way I've gotten to known the CEO is anytime I'm flying through these highly trafficked airports, Chicago, Boston, I see these zoom billboards and I just randomly grabbed a zoom billboard photo and I put it out on Twitter and I said, how cool is it that a tech company, a Billion Dollar Tech Company is doing analog advertising, all marketing matters. And they liked it on Twitter meetings, zoom. He liked it on Twitter.

And then we started coming back and forth and I said, hey, I messaged you because I put you in my book. Like this story ended up in the book. May I send you a book? So when I went out to their, what they call Zoom Topia, their user conference last, um, probably a three or four months ago, he and I, when we saw each other, it was the first time we met in real life, but he goes, Spencer and my good friend Spencer, he introduced me to all the people that he was with.

So I feel like if we can just express honest appreciation and then when we do see somebody in person, they'll go, you help me look good and asked for nothing in return. And how wonderful is that? And if we can go back, right, what we used to do baseball cards, right? We take like the Mark McGuire rookie card, send it into the Oakland A's, be like, gosh, I really hope that he signs it and sends it back. Right? Like that was the, as far as we could possibly go.

Or like wait at the dugout side and they try to get somebody to sign a car. But now like everybody's jockeying for attention constantly. And if you say, these are the people I really want to know, if I could help them broadcast their message, perhaps I could get to know them on a more intimate level. It works more times than not. That's amazing. So what type of language was more, most are more effective when making those connections. It's by first flattering people in a, in a genuine way.

I know those guys, maybe contradictory terms, but genuine fluttery a and then when you make a connection request, say like Gavin, this gentleman that we're talking about, this high school kid said to you, Josh, I'd like to follow you and what you're doing here on linkedin. Again, that's flattery, right?

Yeah. And then if you do have something to say or would it benefit them, just let them know that, yeah, you know, it's by constantly being a value and then perhaps they might ask you to do something for them. Don't know, maybe just say, well, I don't want to speak out of term. This is your business, but I had this idea. I don't think anyone's going to really shoot that down or at least say I really appreciate it. We're actually, we're working on their cro or, or haven't thought of it that way.

Let's meet and talk about it more. Um, and if they did, this is probably not someone you want to associate with anyhow. Yes. Right? Yup. So that's what I always tell our new advisors when they're calling on people as well. It's like you're going to, you can only identify with so many people and you can only work with so many households then you, and you're going to attract your tribe, the people that are most connect with your authenticity and your personality. So let's find those people.

So the ones that say no to you are the ones that hang up on you or the ones that, uh, continue to blow you off. That's not, that's not part of your crew. You're continuing to go find your crew. They're really appreciate your advice. Really appreciate, uh, the time you're spending and the education that you've done to put into their plant. And so I think that applies to everything. It was, we're not meant to appeal to everyone.

You think about the polarization of politics in the last two presidents, at least 50% of the country, current president, the last president has hated their guts or at least perceived and how fun. That's what the media tells us. But, but bottom line is that just means that, I don't know, maybe we need to be disliked by more people to find the people that are really identify with us because they're at the top of the police, the political ladder, and

So I found out about him from the Wisconsin State Journal and it said, here's this kid who just by way of Instagram is this crocheting protege and has all of these followers and you know, 99% of people could care less about crochet at all. But he has this tribal people and now I've got a book deal at age 11 simply because he said I'm exactly for you. And so why not be that way? Right. Why not say I'm exactly for you as an audience and serve those people.

What's the, so what do you think is the best way to present an ask or an offer? I think through online. Yeah. I think, and we've worked through um, attorneys a lot with this and it's, it's sending personalized in mail, sorry, not sorry. It shouldn't say that. Not In mail messages cause you pay for those, it's linkedin messaging and say, I'm going to be in your area. I'd like to be a resource for you. May I come and see you on my own dime and just let you know what, what was Sharon?

So it's, it's after making a purposeful connection and then saying I play in this space. I like what you've done. I'd like to be a valued too and just getting that yes or no. Well that's great. So

But I think the more activity that we do in that space, the easier it is for them to liaise that conversation cause they can do it digitally as opposed to,

Uh, I understand, uh, from what I understand from our conversation so far, there is no magic button, right? So to generate a direct one to one sale on social media, but, but what are some ways that one could potentially use social media to generate sales or calls?

Because I feel like that messaging system, because it's business-related first and it's contextual and if they see it, they could respond to it. It's not buried in their email with a bunch of other stuff because I mean, I feel like spam filters have gotten so aggressive now for anything that it's really hard to get through to people. So I almost exclusively use linkedin messages and just to set up appointments and to do my asks.

Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting because, uh, I think that's all you're looking for as a meeting in a chance. Right? So that's what you're going to be asking for. Um, is there an ad platform that works best for certain industries? Old linkedin for sure. Yeah. Awesome. Good example of this. Um, if you want to target a company who has no idea who you are and have them at least have a familiarity with you, you as an individual in your company, you can send linkedin messages.

Basically you can say, I want people who work at this company at this level or above to see my piece of sponsored content. So before you go to the next conference, networking event, company outing or whatever, they could go, wow, Josh know I see your stuff on linkedin all the time. You must really be out there. It's like, no, I'm just targeting you. Yeah, right. You're going to be really specific with your verbiage.

So that, that's been astounding for which, by the way, everyone, I'm not targeting anyone, it doesn't mean I will in the future, right? Yeah. Well we call it counseling, right? Like how do we, how do we figure out who those six people are? If we lay out an org chart at a company, like we need these six people to know who we are, we can make sure that they know who you are. Oh, that's true. Yeah. That's really good.

So thinking about budget and a business owner, maybe thinking about budget for one of these campaigns with immediate on social media, uh, everyone's budgets is different. So let's talk percentage. What percentage do think someone should set aside to do something like this? We start extremely small because the data points aren't inhibited by not spending a big amount of money.

So we could spend, you know, literally a few hundred bucks and just see how the responses as far as if people take any kind of action and who those people are that we're reaching. If they take that desired action, then we can put more dollars between Austin and that person. Because it is a self service platform, it's really easy to just test a bunch of stuff and see what works and then do more of those things at work as opposed to like grandiose, you know, marketing campaigns. Oh that's good.

Yeah. So they say you don't know what you don't know. So what haven't I asked you that you feel would be good for our listeners to know today? I feel like if, if we can talk a little bit about when people have that, that fear of pushing the publish button, how they get over it. Okay. Is that cool? Okay. So there's an adage that says 80% out the door is better than 100% in the drawer.

Okay. And once people push that publish button or share button and they start getting validation from whomever, that's where things really start to take off. Then they go, my gosh, this actually does work. And sitting on the sidelines doesn't help. So before that, right? So how do we lead up to the point where I'm ready to publish? Make it a point to go out there and let other people know that you're listening because that's going to engender trust.

And then when you eventually do share, they're going to see your stuff and they're going to correspond favorably as well. They're going to reciprocate, right? So that's the goal is to set the stage. So when you do say something and it's good, people will respond and then you go, okay, this is, this is going to work. So that that's really like that. The steps before we actually publish something. I think that's super important. The psychology of it.

Do you think it would, do people just trip over words like there's was so worried about the wording of things that they're going to offend someone or what's holding people back? I think it's, it's really that fear of silence. It's not, it's not I'm going to be embarrassed or I'm going to say something silly or people are going to take what I say and, and maybe misperceive it. It's really what if I put something out there and no one cares that that's the biggest fear.

Wow. Yeah. That's interesting because we know there's some psychology in the dopamine hits that you get from the likes on social media and some people, some personal people, not necessarily business owners, but have taken to that too much where they're seeking validation through a digital platform. And that can be a very negative thing. But on the business side of things that can't be too negative that you gotta be able to put yourself out there.

Otherwise we're never going to grow your business. Yes. So I can see all that would definitely be a psychology game on the personal side of things. But on the business side of things, publish. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Say something. Yeah. So what are two to three big picture overarching points that, uh, you would like to drive home? Considering our topic today, I think it's to be purposeful.

Number one, you know, when you, when you pick up that phone and when you go online and you want to do something on a social media platform, think about is this business, is this personal? When you decide to do it from a business perspective, first be giving an offer other people, some kind of value, some kind of validation of what they're saying. And then eventually when you do say something, don't just brag about yourself because that's the most common thing that we see is we won this award.

Look at us in this paper. It's like, yeah, people care. But people care infinitely more about themselves. So the more that you can brag on their behalf, and we have and that this wonderful take home, if I could, man, like any of these magazines that have either online or print presences. So locally here would be Madison magazine. It'd be in business magazine, et Cetera. There's just all of those, right? There's just reams and reams of wonderful information about people doing really great stuff.

And if you take a simple picture and say, I'm so proud of this person for doing this work here in Madison. And it's true, like it's not just, it's not just fabricated, right? It's genuine. What's that person going to do when they see that and be like, oh my gosh. Like how cool is that? Like, I didn't want to be the person to put it out there and be like, you know, I'm not that kind of like looking be can a person, but if you're doing that on their behalf, you can do that till the end of time.

There will always work. And how couldn't they be flattered. Yes. Yeah. That's just, that's, that's so great. So great. So busy. Biggest advice on how to succeed in business from your beers underneath an employer. Now being an employer man. Um, it's, it's so cliche, but I mean you, you know as well as anybody, like the people that work with you

So, so regardless of what your title is, regardless of you cut the check, the pays them and uh, that their salary and their benefits, like you said, elevate, make sure they feel important at all times and uh, and the people that you're getting introduced or are introducing anyhow, like in the example you used, they're not gonna think anything less of you because you didn't introduce yourself as a CEO, president or otherwise when you're talking good about this other person on earth or more of

you. So that's really good. So, uh, before we wrap up with our final two questions, I want to thank you so much for the time. Like, oh, it's obvious you're a giver and this is what you get paid to do and you're on here giving advice, uh, to all of our business owners. So I would say that a to the business owners listening, he's got a lot of hidden up his sleeve that he didn't give us today. So he's certainly worth bringing into your organization.

Um, so the final two questions we always ask, what book are you reading or what's your favorite book and why? And then I will ask either the last one after you get through that. Okay. Well thank you for your kind words by the way.

And so when he talks about core values and it talks about your mission statement, the culture that you're trying to convey, that's a book that I constantly revisit and there's just this and I have it printed out. It's on my desk at all times. It's from the Harvard Business Review. And it was there very early version of built to last and basically said like, hey, of these seven pages, what are you doing now?

And it's something that I constantly have to revisit because otherwise it's that old working in your business as opposed to on your business thing. The more that we can really think in terms of what are our core values, what are we trying to do as far as make a difference. That's, that's the big book that I constantly, so would you consider yourself a level five leader yet? Dude, man. And I feel like I've, I've met natural level five leaders and they have no idea that they are, you're right.

And in fact, Jim Collins said though, like the Costco Ceo and some of the other examples are utilized, they, they would never label themselves that, you know? So I just, I, I brought that up in just because I loved that book as well. But I'm getting goosebumps again. Maybe because I feel like that that's like the more I'm thinking about some specific people who I looked at them, I'm like, don't you realize that the organization is where it is because of you?

And they go, no, no, no. It's not because of me at all. It's like that's exactly why. That's exactly. That's why they are who they are and why the organization is what they are. Yeah. And that's what it's setting that ego aside. Like we talked a lot about, so how do we, how do we get in touch with you? How does the audience get in touch with you? Linkedin. Linkedin is great.

Yeah. My website, which is my, just, my name's Spencer x smith.com that has the latest and greatest, you know, blog posts and all that kind of stuff on it. So that that's a really good way to get ahold of you as well. And then anyone, that's a, well, let me ask you those. On the team side as your growing business, what do you look for and how might people that would be interested in working with you or for you go about that route?

It's, it's really just reach out because that's the last couple of hires that we had were really just fortuitous timing wise where these two people said, hey, you know, I'm, I'm looking to maybe do something. Could you consider seen it, seen me work for you for free? So they were offering free work first just to get, get their foot in the door.

And I feel like when people go in with that level of humility that that makes me really attracted to that kind of person where they're like, all I really want to do has have some exposure to, so it's not that I'm asking people to work for free, but it's more so just reach out and say, here's what perhaps I can offer you. Um, so yeah man, just, just let it be known, right. To take a shot.