Welcome to the inspire people Impact Lives Podcast. This podcast is for people looking to get more out of life by making an impact on those around them. Each week we bring you local influential business and community leaders delivering powerful messages to help you live a more inspiring and impactful life. Coming to you live from Northwestern Mutual Middleton, here's your host Josh Kosnick.
All right welcome to another episode of inspire people impact lives. Today's topic exploring alternative thoughts. In 1951 renowned psychologist Solomon Asch conducted an experiment and found that the larger the group is the more people tend to conform to mob mentality. Leaders who broke out of the box were ridiculed and labeled as troublemakers. The word troublemaker has a very negative connotation. However some of the greatest leaders and innovators were also given this label.
People like Galileo, Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Henry Ford, the Wright Brothers, Harriet Tubman, Mark Zuckerberg, Nelson Mandela and Steve Jobs lots and lots more where that came from. These are all incredibly inspiring people who are able to courageously break away from the mob mentality and passionately pursue their vision of the future. Creative thinkers are able to easily find answers to unsolved questions. They weigh up the facts and are not afraid to try new approaches.
This type of team leader can find the solution to a technical scientific or social problem by going against the grain and questioning the typical way that things have been done in the past. Part of being an innovative thinker is having the capacity to explore alternative thoughts and ideas. Anyone who thinks they have all the answers is kidding themselves and is merely feeding their own ego.
So make a point of challenging your beliefs on a regular basis so you can see the other side of the story. Have conversations with people who have different thoughts and belief structures to learn what makes them tick. If you really believe something with conviction it should hold up to scrutiny.
Your openness will allow or show others that you are so firm in your convictions that you're willing to challenge your own beliefs by doing this you will develop trust in people who think differently than you do and inspire those around you. So with that said today I have Henry Sanders joining me on the show.
Henry is a great friend and is a creative thinker and innovator in the truest form his ability to explore alternative thoughts and go against the grain has enabled him to do amazing things for the public and private sector here in Wisconsin. Let me read some of his resume. I had to cut this down as we spoke of before so we make time efficient here.
But Henry started his career with the City of Madison later served as outreach coordinator for labor education and environmental issues for us representative and now U.S. Senator Tammy Baldwin. He subsequently worked as a community relations officer at the Wisconsin Housing and Economic develop authority otherwise known as Weda all leading to an exciting and rewarding career in the private sector. Henry's private sector experience includes founding several organizations to meet critical needs.
Henry is the founder and CEO of Madison 365 which is a nonprofit online media outlet. Madison 365 has become the leading online magazine reaching approximately 1.1 million per month in Wisconsin and ranks among the top five online magazines in the Midwest.
For that Henry served as vice president economic development and public policy and greater Madison Chamber of Commerce building the organizations economic development while also starting small business advisory council and its economic development entity Mad Rep. He also launched African-American Black Business Association and the Latino Chamber of Commerce.
When I first met Henry it was through his foundation of the group Magnet otherwise known as Madison Area Growth Network which works to attract and retain skilled young professionals in the Madison Wisconsin area and Madison network of black professionals which connects African-Americans to each other within the community. And that was many moons ago but there was a lot of fun. And our relationship has continued since then.
Beyond that a couple quick other hitters Henry has developed helped develop the curriculum and program design for the Wisconsin Alumni Research Foundation Warf upstart program to help aspiring women and minority entrepreneurs gain the skills needed to conceive fund and test business ideas.
And finally Henry founded capacity 360 helping to grow companies in the bio science and biotech industries working to connect bio companies with funding for R and D technology and commercialization and bringing 15 million plus to the Wisconsin economy. So Henry welcome my brother.
Thanks bro that was that was a big bio man. That's sounds alive.
So you look back on that when you think about that I was going through that probably a lot of thoughts and emotions were runnign through your head what were you thinking? That I'm old and that I'm getting old.
That sounds like a lot what was I thinking when I was doing all those things.
Yeah. You didn't say the Obama, work for the Obama Administration. So we must have cut that out. Probably that makes sense for a lot of reasons why people don't politics makes people nervous. I mentioned Tammy Baldwin. Did Yeah you did away.
I mean are the one thing I've always appreciated about you are and I implore listeners because we're so polarized nowadays it is I loved our conversations and it's not you know you may have worked for Democrats or been an Obama appointee but that's not You see things from both sides of the House can connect with many different people.
I love people. It's a person's perspective. So thank you man. You bet. Magnet magnet that was a long time ago 15 years from now.
You still look young though. I'm tingry to keep from trying to keep up.
But I know that was a great time networking with people and that's not my norm. That was not my mom I'm not an extrovert I'm more I guess the new term is ambivert I can act well in that situation but it's not my norm.
I like to think and absorb things on my own. Really.
No I never would. I never thought that you liked to me just yell extrovert.
See one on one I can do that I can do that well. So getting into today's topic. And as we think about your experience what does it take to be a creative thinker. You've done a lot of things a lot of the list a lot that I listed off probably just you know maybe some were a fruition of thought there was just real quick and some might be a labor of love that have taken taken time. But what do you think it really takes to be a creative thinker and go against the grain.
That's a good question, you know one of my favorite sayings is the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results. And that's something I've always stood by. So for me I've never gone by people telling me you can't do even I mean even as a kid I've always been the guy thats like OK well there's a problem how can we solve the problem. So I think for me it's never going by what other people said it can't be done.
It's about looking at what's the problem how can I solve the problem. And then once you figure out what the problem is you do everything you can to solve that problem and connecting dots where a lot of people don't want to connect dots. And so for me it's just by having the audacity to say you can get things done.
I never realized it was abnormal. I'm getting older and I'll be 45 in December and now I realize or recognize that it's a little abnormal that the way I do things but I think I always look at it from the problem first and then how can solve the problem. And I don't have a I don't have a certain way I have to solve the problem right so I don't say here's my ideology. This is how I'm going to have to solve this problem.
It's no how can I be effective at solving a problem make a sustainable and then that leads everything else that leads all my could that leads innovation creativity whatever that comes is problem solving that's really good. So in that you kind of alluded to it but you didn't outright say it I've found you to be a tremendous fact finder when you identify a problem.
You truly seek to find people that understand that problem a little bit better so you can come up with a great solution. What makes you good at that. Why do you think that's so important as you're trying to solve for problems.
You know I don't know if I've always been good at it. You know when you make mistakes especially when i was younger you sometimes think you know when I was a young guy arrogant guy that I knew at all.
And you started making these you start making these moves I said oh well maybe I shouldn't have done it that way and time teaches you wisdom comes by you by your failures right. So I failed a lot of times in the beginning thinking I knew what I didn't know. And one of the biggest strengths you have to know what you don't know you have to know enough to know that you don't know. And once you can come at peace with that then you start doing research right and searching out anyone.
OK well just how do you tell me about financing. How does that work are. JP How do you cut hair. So you started going to people who have expertise in those areas and you have to lose yourself and focus on how can I solve the problem but you have to lose yourself within that. You have to kind of be selfless you have to kind of put your ego aside.
And as a young guy my ego got in a way a lot of times. But I learned to I learned that was OK to fail long as I was learning from it. So that's what I did man but it was you know it wasn't always easy. No it's never easy.
Is there a failure that sticks out that was maybe your biggest teacher for you?
Man I failed so much. I think every little failure is grows with me. You know that's a good question.
But I think looking back now when I was at the Chamber of Commerce and I was Greater Madison Chamber of Commerce and I was the vice president chamber I was the vice president there of public policy economic development. And I remember we were starting Mad Rep which was ready in its thrive. But now it's Mad Rep.
And I remember at that time thinking to myself We don't need economic development in the chamber of commerce. Let's just be the Chamber of Commerce let's just do it ourselves.
And I really hurt myself by thinking I knew what I was talking about which I didn't. My boss at that time Jennifer Alexander knew way way more than I did but my ego got in the way and I think I hurt that organization could have been at that point in time it could have been farther cus was pushung against it. I didn't think that was a great growth opportunity for us. I thought we should just stay in the lane that we were in and be in the chamber and networking.
Now you look back it was really dumb. Right. I mean mad rep has grown is bringing more people into the economy is helping the economy is helping the region. And that's one. Another time is when I started magnet. And at that point I figured Magnet was going to be a young professional organization for everyone.
I just think you know I was black I'm ok well black people will come and Latino people will come and I'm just this is cool dude everyone's wanting to come and be around right to see young arrogant guy. And what I found out was we had our first event downtown and about it was about 130 people showed up. I'll never forget it. And it was to me it was one of the most diverse rooms that I've been in.
It was about 60 percent white people 40 percent people of color and that never happens in Madison you know that that never happens in Madison either one or the other. Either one or the other. As so I left they're saying yeah I hit it knocked it out the park. So this is such a true story. Two days later I got all these calls in the black community upset.
They hated the event the white people loved the event.
And I was shocked because I assumed that black people were who would say yeah we want to be around white people wanted to network it was opposite that black people were telling me at that time hey we want to be around. We want to be around people that look like us we want a network. We don't know how to really network around people like white people people we've worked with them all the time like we want our own thing.
And that humbled me because I assumed that I knew where the community was a black guy part of black community. And I failed miserably. That's why I started a massive network of black professionals because of that failure.
Do you think today because you touched on there that at that time our community wasn't there would it be there today. If you started Magnet wasn't invented 15 years ago or whatever it was and you invented today.
I think it would be different but I think there would be some of those there will still be some tension but a different type of tension. I think that at that point in time was young professionals in general was just a new concept. I think you would find people of color who still want their own thing and want their own identity. But they probably would they probably now would integrate better into the process but they would want their identities to be stronger I think within the group.
It wouldn't be about us assimilating but you know we'll be part of this young professional group but we still want our identity within it. I think would be a little different. I think we'd still have some of the struggles we'd have.
Yeah I realize that's off topic but it was like I just wondered.
Yeah I think it's an interesting question. I don't know I've never I'd never do it again.
So someone else will have to bring that up. Let someone else deal with those headaches.
So in level of importance I mean so there's so much getting thrown at a business owner at a servant leader a public leader whatever they may be how important do you think it is for the leader to go against the grain at times to solicit people that don't think the way they think any successful business owner can't just go with the can't go with the
They can't go with the flow. I think if you want to be successful you have to build a niche. You have to know your niche. You have to know what makes you different from other businesses you know if you can't do that if you can't you can't really show people what your differences or what's your sales proposition and why they should buy your product. You're dead in the water right.
And so you have to be innovative you have to be able to show like you know McDonald's versus Burger King or you know why to Metcalf's versus copps like you know you always have to. There might be people in your lane but you have to show why you're a little bit different why did I go to Metcalf's versus copps. Why did someone call Northwest Mutual versus whoever else right. I mean you have to understand what your niche is and the only way to do that is you have to be innovative.
You have to say what makes me unique. What are my strengths and my skill sets and what are people kind of demanding and how can I reach the customer.
Always put the customer first, I always say put the problem, but always find the customer in business and then the customer you come back from that and that will help have the what your product to me.. Experts say that you are the average of the five people you hang out with and the books that you.
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Would another way of saying that be meet people where they are.
I think you do have to meet people where they are if you don't. And I think that's in life. I think you want to be successful in life you have to meet people where they are. And that sounds easier than it really than it really is because you have to. You have to drop yourself you have to be a good listener. Yes you can assume and you have to recognize that you have to.
You have to recognize that you might not know what you think you know and that's not always easy because I think our instincts is we want to be right. Right. Our instinct is we want someone to affirm that we're right. And if you go into conversations our business or if you go into any type of relationship with people if that's your perspective you're going to fail and especially leaders and I think most leaders are problem solvers by nature so
We think we're right no matter what because we're just trying to go and fix. We see a problem we go and fix it. And that was our previous podcast with Mike Victorson we talked a lot about problem solving. So. So that's right. Meeting people were there at one of the things that I've done and I make sure to do on any leadership team is insert at least one try to have multiple but at least one devil's advocate as I want to make sure that I have someone in the room that always thinks contrarian.
And maybe that's another word that people would be more familiar with contrarian thinker is a lot.
I hate the devil's advocate. I hate that I hate that saying I kind of saw your face.
But the thing is with those types of people is a lot of times we're talking about diversity as a skin color thing or a religion thing or something I think diversity also in thought and that contrarian thinker for me as always gives good perspective it doesn't mean that there are going to be right and you're wrong. It gives you a totally different way of a line of sight that's really helps me over time and that thinker.
For those of you guys don't know that contrarian thinker typically the one that sits back absorbs what everyone's saying especially the problem solvers that are throwing answers against the wall. This this this and they go wait a minute. What about this. And then everyone goes oh that's that that's the person you need in the room as well if you don't have it.
I love and I love that because groupthink is dangerous right. I mean group group thinks that you blindsided and once you get blindsided in business and life its hard to get back and actually you know I ran for I ran for office and doing doors. I used to love going to doors that people had different signs than mine. So you know when you run for office people have your signs up and I would love going to people's doors who had my opponent's signs up.
I would love it not to be in a debate but to go to some hear their different perspective right. Because it made me a better candidate. If I can go to someone else's door and hear them say hey look no no we disagree with you on this this and that it would help me find tune my message right. So it goes back to what you're saying. Have people around you who think differently who can challenge you because what does iron sharpens iron.
A lot of ways it helps you fine tune who you are. I love that.
So in this speaking of door knocking and that takes a lot of confidence and courage. I know that for a fact. So being able to go against the grain that takes a lot of confidence and courage. Is there a time where maybe you've had to check your own thoughts ideas and listen to other opinions to find the best solution.
You know that's you know you married you're married.
A rhetorical so I'm checkin it everyday.
Me and my wife is telling me every day I'm wrong.
That's actually real.
But every day and every day you know I think I mean I think every organization anything I've started I've always had people check me. I actually like people around me who check me and check my ideas. So what you were just saying before I kind of like surrounding myself with people who are confident enough to challenge me when I build teams.
I try to build teams of people that have different skill sets so they can challenge me and check me on things like that for selfish ambition or in the case that faith based organization we started in the beginning. I really thought that we should a model that we should do is we really should be focusing on not focused on the pastors not focus on the church.
I'm like let's just skip the churches. So soap's on Bishop takes that back. On Bisson organization that will try to get churches together to focus on schools of folks in the communities to really give back to serve food pantries et cetera.
And so in the beginning you know my instinct is forget the institution walls skip them and I just jumped to the people. It was a mistake right. I mean so I had a people enough people around me to check me to say wait a minute you might be. You might there's some probably some issues with institutions you know.
But they are still institutions they still do have credibility and they still do know the people they still know the church you know and I have enough people around me to say hey wait a minute like we get what you're saying we get you have some frustration with how the church is what works and how pastors may operate sometimes. But still there's still the church right and they're still part of the overall church. I have had enough people around me to check me enough to say hey slow your roll.
There's a value here and you can't talk about one part of the church without talking about all of the church.
So that was that you know that that was something that's most recently for me mostly because as we know church is the people on the walls of the institution.
Right. And I think in the beginning for me that's how I saw it. But you can't just I can't you can't say that the church is the people but also somewhat ignore the pastors. Right. Right. Well they're people their that part of the church. So that's again we have to put your own biases your perspective down and say How can I be effective. Do I have enough people around me that I trust which is key the people enough that I trust to give me the best insight that I can and when they give it to you.
Are you humble enough to us accept it and adjust. Right. And that's yet to be had to put yourself down to do be selfless.
That's so key because we get to a leadership position and you feel like you have to have all the answers right. Right. Whether you're promoted up the ranks to a CEO position or whether you started a business and they expect you to have all the answers. I know that's a hard hard dichotomy to kind of just break through. Even in my organization we I need that feedback.
We're 200 people plus deep now if I don't know if I don't get feedback I can't be at all places at all times I can't be eyes and ears. I rely on other leadership to tell me what's the culture like what's the energy like what's what's impeding some progress in whatever area we're trying to achieve how do you or how did you over time because you talked about your early on you know ego getting in the way. Yeah for sure.
So there's other leaders out there I'm sure that are either their egos get in the way through the know it all mask or through they feel like they have to have all the answers. How did you humble yourself or what lessons were was there kind of a quick oh I gotta do this or was it a gradual progression or how would you go.
There was a gradual progression. I wasn't one of those people felt like I knew it all. But I had a chip on my shoulder so that chip on my shoulder told me that I had to get something done and come hell or high water I was going to get it done and if you're with me or not.
That's it. And so that was my attitude. So even if I was wrong you could be giving the best advice in the world. And that's great. But that's going to slow down where I'm trying to go. And so if you're trying to give me this advice and that's going to slow now two months two weeks like I'm off I'm going either get with me or you know and so that I have to learn over time. Well yeah I might be thinking that that person is slowing me down two weeks at that time.
But overall it might be saving me six months of work. You know what I mean. And so it was just that that ego that I was let me take a step back I would say people's gifts can be their curses. Right. And so I have a gift of if I put my mind to something that's it. Anyone who knows me once I decide that's it that's if I'm gone. The flip of that is that I'm off and I'm gone right. And so that's my same gift can be a curse. So if I have to recognize that I recognize I had that determination.
But I also recognize that that same determination can be run into blind spots so you have to have people around willing enough to say hey well look that's a great idea. Henry I get it. We know you're off but let's take a step back and let's strategially just take a step back and say Where were you going. Are you sure that's the direction you want to go. I know you want to accomplish a goal but is this the way you're doing is that the way to accomplish that goal.
Are you solving a problem that you really want to solve and walking yourself back there. So then you have to know yourself well enough to know.
OK. Wait a minute I'm take a step back. That's a real that's good advice but you have to recognize that your strengths can be your weaknesses man and people don't recognize that.
So that's so crucial what you just said there. Have you heard the yin-yang principle at in alignment with that. So the Yin Yang when you see the symbol right white with black black or white. Everyone recognized the symbol I once gave my leadership team a journal with that symbol on it. No words whether they're like josh isn't into martial arts, Josh isn't Asian. Why is he giving me this?
Because I've learned that what you just said in every strength is a corresponding weakness. And every weakness has a corresponding strength and the leadership principles in that are so profound because what you just said is exactly true. Sometimes your biggest strengths can also correspond to your weaknesses. Sure. Or have that there so learning those learning more about yourself is so so crucial to you know that. here's something I learned about myself that I had.
I have to really watch because I am selfless utterly selfless and giving and trying to grow people. But if I get burned i'm a hurricane.
I or you were dead to me. I will be utterly selfless with my time my money my everything that I can to a point. If you burn me you're out of my life you're done. So I've learned that about myself too as not to not to pull back.
Me being and being more selfish but to know that trait. You know OK if I start again that that angst or that anger about someone that just what I perceived to have done me wrong. I got a check. Hey did they actually do me wrong. Was it on purpose. I had to start going through these questions to make sure that if I'm going to cut this person out of my life that that its a smart decision to do that.
That's awesome. Even for me my problem a problem solver. And so my marriage right so problem solving when you're married you sometimes when your wife starts complaining about something your first thing you want to do is what you want to jump in to solve the problem. And I had to learn in my marriage my wife doesn't always want me to solve the problem just wants me to listen and she wants to vent right. Even in my marriage my strength this problem solving.
But sometimes you don't problem solvee we know you sometimes my street can be a hindrance in my marriage right because my wife's like I just want you to be here for me and listen I don't want you try to solve this problem. So you get to learn those thing. Yeah.
That that takes learning. So let's talk about what strategies you do like strategies because people oftentimes okay this all well and good Josh Henry but what strategies could I use because they may be in a spot where some of our audience might be in a spot of you know my my I recognize that my ego is in the way or I may not have the team the leadership team right now to help me with this that they're describing what strategies or maybe some processes could could we give them.
It's a great question. So when I was when I was young I worked for the city a madison affirmative action department and I recognized early on that I didn't want to be pigeonholed as the black guy. Right.
And I recognized that my audience everyone around me was black and my audience was black. The people around me my black my peers are black. My network was black my advisor were black.
I strategically said to myself everyone around me is black. Same experience similar experiences.
But what can I do if I don't want to be pigeonholed as just the black guy. What do I do to break out that mold and I strategically. I made a list I could remember it's like it was yesterday man I made a list of people I wanted to meet. I mean like crazy stuff like people I had no idea like Nino and Mado. Paul Soglin Lamar Billups so people I just had no idea I didn't know I'm a just young kid and I wrote them all down. And I wrote it down like OK here are the people I want to meet.
I want to meet Paul because he knows city government you know. MARTIN He's in the community. Lamar Billups down at the university and started writing out of all things I heard people talking about in the community. And I wrote them all down and I called every one of them Josh.
I called every one of them. And when I called them I knew everything about them. Hey Lamar Billups how are you doing? Good. This is Henry Sanders. He's like OK who's Senator Sanders? Great. Hey I love when you did this at UW and that this job here here and here and I know you're friends with so-and-so. And I talked to him and we had a really good conversation about you and I knew all that and everything about him. I would love to get together and how can he say no at that point. Right.
This kid who this kid but this kid knew everything about me.
If nothing else he admired the courage that it took to call right. And I did that for all, I had a list of about 15 people.
And out of that 15 people I called all these people I met with all of them. And that's how I got to Tammy Baldwin job. Ironically Tammy Baldwin's office calls me out the blue. I had no idea who Tammy Baldwin was had no idea who she was. She calls me up and says hey I would love to meet with you this is Tammy Baldwin.
I heard you met with "so and so," one of the 15 people I met with one of 15 people I go meet with her and her team she offered me a job the next day all because I made that list of 15 people I wanna meet with outside of my bubble. Right. So I would say one thing is network intentionally not just network that I can these people go to events just to network and meet people. I mean that's can be effective sometimes. But be intentional about the people you want to meet.un And do the work right.
So I say be intentional, #2 understand who your peers are and understand who you are who your group is your group your tribe. Right now understand that you have to break out your tribe. Yes. You have to be comfortable sometimes and find the people who are doing it think that you are a buyer or that you respect even that you might disagree with and start to intensely try to study them.
If they're doing what they do what they don't what they do not doing what you like you don't like study them try to meet them if you can. But you can't study them and then do research span. I mean like you said earlier im about facts I love. I mean if you came to my house right now Josh I would have you would see books. I read like five or ten books like a week. Different books always.
I've never finished one chapters here but a down chapters here put out always researching always trying to figure out how can I grow and challenging my own beliefs so that those are the core things I would say are key in your story reminded me this summer we had the opportunity to hear Magic Johnson speak.
He came to Northwestern Mutual's annual meeting which is keynote speaker wise
This man didn't get onstage. I put on my Facebook was amazing he didn't get onstage once. He literally was in the crowd. This is a crowd of 10,000 people and he's working the crowd and he'd tell stories and then he'd get off on a tangent talking to a young kid that came up and to give him his signature.
And he did go off on a tangent for five minutes and then come back to the exact spot my story was but the point of me bringing him up was when he was a rookie in the league I believe it was or maybe second year or something of that nature. He was starting to think about his life beyond basketball. And he was starting to think about that now. What did he want or want to do. He wanted to own a business you want to bring change to communities.
And so he knew he knewe enough that he was very good at basketball but he knew he didn't know anything about business. And that was how he decided he wanted to bring a change to communities. So as the story goes he went to Jerry Buss the owner of the Lakers and said you know.
I'm thinking about doing this. Can I get a list of our season ticket holders and Jerry Buss put it chronologically to highest paying ticket holders. Called the first twenty five and it goes. Not surprisingly they all said yes to a lunch meeting.
Not as courageous for him to call out and reach out as
Maybe you because he was the superstar. Of course they're going to take a meeting their season ticket holders so probably a pretty easy set. But what he did was just ask them questions and ask them. Business some life questions. And it's no wonder how successful he is today behond basketball smart. I love that story.
And then the courage of they took to reach out to Starbucks and say you know because at the time Starbucks didn't see a market in inner city and thinking that people of color wouldn't spend four or five dollars six dollars on a on a cup of coffee right. And he said you're absolutely wrong. You're just not marketing to that demographic and he is now the only private owner of Starbucks in the country is funny like this from Madison 365.
You just said that story sparked a story. So when I started Madison 365 everyone was telling me that you can't start a media outlet that focuses on people of color just law. And you can't work you crazy just don't do it. I mean I had people in the industry telling me this indusry you cant do it. And we had we had a event at UW and it Garnett was they are the top dogs there. USA Today everyone was there and someone asked me a question they Oh Henry how does Madison 365 survive.
Ten years from now. You're just trying to reach people of color for us doesnt it make business sense. How are you going to survive.
And I said to them Well you guys are missing the data. Data shows people of color spend money just as much or more than white people. Our demographics are growing there is going to be more people of color next 20 years than white people.
Everyone is going on line. I just wouldn't like to give her an analysis of the real question is how do you guys compete with us ten years from now. That's just great. And the whole room got quiet though. I mean literally the whole room got quiet. It came out that we never thought about that way.
Exactly. Exactly. You'd never thought about it that way. I gave it to I actually gave it a real access to it is a problem. Demographics are changing here's the facts demographics changed and look at the dollars people of color spend money their brand we really we really rely on brands. How do you if you don't have a brand identity in those communities and their demographics are growing.
You're going like this we're going like this. How do you guys supply basic business right.
But they were so they were so in their original way of thinking that they did. They missed a whole market. Right. It's just crazy for me. So what Magic was saying about Starbucks is perfect.
I totally agree with them. And sometimes what you're saying are those those big institutions are USA Today whatever it may be a success can breed complacency. And so they weren't even think in a different way right. Whereas you are constantly evolve consolate change to keep up with trends especially nowadays.
Now let's let people talk to your five year business plans. If you're a five year business plan you're not really paying attention to the market dude. I mean maybe teo year business plan the best because it changes so fast. Right. So but like you said I will say these big organizations like the Titanics move all slow. You know he's got to be flexible in today's economy. But I agree with magic man. He's I was like when I heard that.
I may or may not have it recorded.
May or may not. I don't think I was supposed to. I heard that's what I heard you just say you were supposed to have a recording but you recorded it. That's right. So I can get that to you or may be able to get that to you. So those are those listening and may not be as confident as you.
They may have some doubts or they have naysayers that they've surrounded themselves with. How does that how do you how do you say they would handle the what ifs or the naysayers that are in their life that they have this great idea that they possibly research to the hilt the fact from like you do. Yeah they know it can work in their heart of hearts but they are just people these people around them and they have these negative thoughts in their head.
How do you deal with that. I think I want to stay in or I say I'm fearless. I have no fear. I'm just as bad or just as Macho Man. I have no fear. That's crazy right. Everyone has fear yes how to face your fears right. I mean you have to recognize that you have fears that it's real like that feeling is real but it's just a feeling when that feeling is trying to trick you to stop you from what you're trying to do.
Even when I speak you know I speak right now. You know I speak at church I speak at a lot of places. I get nervous every time I try to go when I speak. Every time I spoke yesterday at the church and I always try to talk myself out of going ah man you're not feeling well dude like you're feeling sick why do you want to go like you know these people all the time. That I speak I do and I love it when I get done.
You know I use to box I said been Midwest champ likes to box all the time travel to country boxing. Man I would get so nervous I would be on a toilet all the time beofre a box of matches right. Just nervous. And I was I was I was the champ. Right.
But I knew it was part of my process. I knew that I was going to have a boxing match. I'm going to get nervous.
This is part of my process. As soon as you take your first punch or deliver that first punch it was gone.
When I started walking to into the ring it would go away right. Same thing with speaking once I start walking to stage it goes away it's like we're here now. But the point is you have to understand that's part of the process. Sometimes those nerves are good to keep you alert. They tell you this is real. Tell someone who might be nervous about it because they haven't done it before.
So what do it take the steps right. Because all you can do is fail.
If you fail learn from your failure and get up and move again. Right. Failure is part of the process you have to learn how to deal with your feelings. Anyone who touched that nervous who's doing things who they're not they're not engaged. They don't care about it. That fear is going to come up but you have to fight it. You have to know it's part of the process and don't let it stop you.
I couldn't agree more. And remove some of those naysayers from real life. I mean maybe you can't remove your parents. For someone that's not close to you. But if there's people that are doubting you that are that are disposable in your life that aren't really pertinent to be there.
Maybe take a break. I mean Facebook lets you take a 30 day break from seeing someone in their News Feed.
Maybe you need to do that in real life. I think that's real.
I mean but you have to again this is this is a different issue though. But this has to do about your identity right. So what you're just saying that you know who you are. You have to have a real self belief of who you are. And once you know that you'll start to know who are around you who is good and who's not bad for you right. And you just don't know what your goals are because the people aren't certain when your goals you'll find people who are aligned with your goals.
Right that's why you and I hit it off right. You and I two different industries doing different things. But our goals right both men of faith both are family oriented. Both want to accomplish things want to help people. Our goals are aligned so we can always come from different perspectives. We can always talk to each other. If you know if you're not someone who is in line with my goals you don't have to agree with the same steps.
Maybe we're not the same maybe we shouldn't be.
We can be friends we could be associates but maybe not gonna be the person you're talking to or listening to at least speak into my life. So I think that's key for people.
The other thing you touched on there's interesting you give the boxing analogy because you hear boxers that they know they'll quit or their time is done when they stop losing when they stop getting nervous when they lose the nerves that.
They know they've lost their edge. So if you're still have those nerves going into anything or it's going on stage or going into a business that you're going to take on a massive amount of debt like you still got that out there you're still living and you're still breathing let's fight for it.
And it's it's part of process. Man like it you get happy is an emotion. Fear is an emotion you have to learn how to deal with that fear.
Just like something you have to learn how to if you let fear stop you in life you're not going to do anything in life. You're never going to do anything new you're never going to do anything innovative not going to do anything that's fun or inspiring. You know fear is not a you of this with a Christian shall I say fear is not of our kingdom meaning fear is not all good things come from God.
From my perspective myself here if you're what you listen to fears of trying to get away you know into the right guy or whether it's a Christian show or not.
One of the number one commands of the Bible is fear not that suggests a number or a number of different ways.
Right. So no fear. Fear is just a trick. It's a it's an illusion. It's trying to trick you it's trying to deceive you from your calling.
And typically on the other side of fear is everything you want. Everything usually and the people who are willing to go through it are willing to work hard for once you using can get it. But fear tricks you man. Keep working out like working out right. You know sometimes work like do I want to work out. I don't want to suffer. Going through the pain the go to work out like oh I feel good at this. Wow.
Same thing man that's about every day for me I never want to work out but I always feel great after doing it. I have to force myself to do it. So it's not about a feeling it's about action. So let's switch gears I want or give a plug to something that's important to me and it was important to your selfless ambition selfless ambition. I'm a board member I've enjoyed working with you on this.
Let's tell our audience about what what good you're doing in a community where selfless ambition or good that's going on in our community right now because I don't think a lot of people had the opportunity to hear.
Thank you. Thanks for joining the board and being a part of it. So selfless ambition is an organization a faith based organization that we're trying to really work in the community and in Madison we really focus on a couple issues. As you know Madison has some of the highest disparities in the country when it comes to kids of color. And so we want to focus on a couple of things one reading for kids of color.
How do we get tutors and mentors into schools for African-American kids 15 percent of kids can read at a 3rd grade level in Madison. So what can we do to help those kids get where they need to be. So we put tutors and mentors in the schools. We also as you know this too that there is 800 homeless kids in the schools just in Madison alone. What can we do to help those homeless kids.
How can we help feed like how can we help feed a lot of students in the schools being in a school is one of top things you hear from all the teachers and a lot of our kids are hungry and if you can't feed the kids if they're not at the hunger they can't study right.
And so what can we do to put food pantries in schools so now we are putting food pantries in the schools were put tutors in the schools were doing block parties was sort of like a battle where if a broom block parties and this Summer we do something every week called Camp Tuesdays where we go to different communities have kids come out. We feed them we play with them. About 100 kids come on every week every Tuesday and just hang out with them. We do raise a prom.
So you know Tim Tebow does his little prom we do the same thing for special needs kids prime called A Night To Remember here. at Monona Terrace about 500 people show up 300 kids special needs. So those are the type of things that we're doing trying to get people who are Christian out of the church walls and in the community to serve in the community with people so those are things we're doing.
So how can people get in touch or donated if they feel called to selfless ambition.
They go to our website selflessambition.org. And I say they want to volunteer they can sample as a volunteer. We have if you can put your profile and it keeps track of your hours keeps track what you want to do if you just click. I'm interested in pantries are after school programs click that and we'll give you information.
If you're donating we're doing a lot of different things for donating you know to food pantries they look for our mobile truck. We're going to actually do it out December 1st we're doing a countywide high school summer for Christian kids at Madison College so they could donate to that. We're doing lots of different things that I can donate to on our Web site.
Well it's awesome thank you for all that you do to give back to our kids in the community. I mean it can't be understated. The kids are our future particularly in this community to grow kids to grow. So that being said I really appreciate our time together I always appreciate our time. So it's fun. But particularly you're giving back to this show to our listeners to other leaders in the Madison community.
How can anyone in the community needs or wants to get in touch with you the man, the myth, the legend, how can they get in touch with you.
Wow. If my wife heard that she'd roll her eyes and say "whatever: well you just make sure she hears it.
He said it. they can always email me at [email protected]. That's always the best. Getting in touch with e-mail me. That's one e-mail that I check all the time and they'll get to man [email protected]. And I'll get back to them.
Perfect. Thank you my brother.
Thank you bro. I loved it. It's fun. It was. A good man.
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