Speaker 1 (00:00:00) - Welcome to the Sparky Life Podcast. I'm your host, Lia Lamela, and here we create the spark in our lives. Join me on this electrical journey where I highlight skilled trade tales and construction career opportunities with those I've met along the way. Thank you for joining. For trade tales continued. Hello. Welcome. Welcome. I just want to let you know, when I recorded this episode, I was sick. So please excuse the froggy voice. Our guest, Amanda Veinott, owner of Maven Roofing and exteriors, shares her incredible trade tale. She explains how she stepped into the world of roofing. And in this conversation, she reveals the methods towards her success. Amanda's approach to building a badass crew is unique. She mindfully constructs her team rather than hiring a group of experts. She explains the benefits in building a team with different backgrounds and levels of expertise. And, you know, I've heard of this before from many successful people. How important it is to have a team of different backgrounds and levels. She goes over hiring production leaders and crew chiefs, which shows there are many ways to structure a construction business.
Speaker 1 (00:01:28) - When Amanda began in roofing, she sold over 3 million in her first year. Her approach to sales is refreshing. She disregards the hustler mentality and embraces being authentic in your approach to serve others. I am so excited to share this episode with you. It's very interesting when we spoke about how you got into construction because it wasn't like a typical I started off in the trades. That's not what happens. You kind of have a fun and exciting adventure. A story about how you walked into construction and fell in love with it. So let's start there. Sure. All righty. So I do not have a normal.
Speaker 2 (00:02:14) - Construction industry background or experience, but I would say that much like many of my fellow women in construction, it was a journey that happened sort of serendipitously. And I had a unfortunate reality of Covid closure of my business in 2020. Prior to that, I was an entrepreneur for several years. So what I was looking for my next adventure during Covid. The only options really at that time were to go into construction, go into anything in the medical world, or try to figure out how to start another business during Covid.
Speaker 2 (00:02:55) - And I was having another baby on April 2nd of 2020, and my husband was basically like, Well, that's a lot of risk right now during a pandemic to start another business. So why don't you just get a job? That sounds like a terrible idea. Darn.
Speaker 1 (00:03:15) - What what logic.
Speaker 2 (00:03:18) - Most entrepreneurs make terrible employees, and I reached out to my friend Dan, who owned a company here in North Jersey for roofing and siding. And I said, Hey, you're the first person I'm reaching out to, but I need a job. Unfortunately, my business closed and he got right back to me. And he actually eventually told me he thought that I was joking and was like, Nope, no joke. So he hired me as a marketing manager for the company because I had a marketing background and quickly realized that I belonged in a sales role. So I moved into sales rocks and sold for two and a half years in sales. And then I unexpectedly left his company in January of this year and then unexpectedly started my own roofing company in March of this year.
Speaker 2 (00:04:07) - So it's always been a little bit of an interesting journey getting here, but I'm super excited to be launching Maven and focusing on both my passion of construction and my passion of entrepreneurship. Woop woop.
Speaker 1 (00:04:22) - So basically, you're a badass.
Speaker 2 (00:04:28) - Sometimes I'm a little bit afraid of my own shadow, but I put on a brave face.
Speaker 1 (00:04:35) - When you started to get involved with your friend's roofing company, you sold 3 million, is that correct?
Speaker 2 (00:04:43) - 3 million in my second year and 2.5 million in my first year.
Speaker 3 (00:04:50) - Nice.
Speaker 1 (00:04:53) - And during that experience, even though you're in the sales role, what did you fall in love with that involved construction that you experienced in construction that you didn't experience in other fields?
Speaker 2 (00:05:06) - So that's a really good question. And I actually just sort of made the connection as you were talking to why love construction so much? It has so much overlap with entrepreneurship where you start with an idea and you see the vision and what it can become, and then there's a process to getting there. So similar to building businesses, working on the transformation of somebody's home is incredible.
Speaker 2 (00:05:33) - Somebody has this idea, they call us or like, Hey, I need to do something or I want to do something. And in a lot of ways, I get to be the coach, hired business coaches for my own business or consultants that have an area of expertise that I don't. And these homeowners are calling me in to help them transform their homes and counsel them on what products are best, what should happen, what's code required Now that might not have been code required in the past, and I get to be that construction coach or construction consultant in a lot of ways. I never really thought about it that way, but that's what I love. I love the opportunity to take an idea and a vision and make it come to life through construction.
Speaker 1 (00:06:21) - It's helping someone build their dream. Yeah, it's beautiful. Very beautiful. So you fell in love with the construction aspect. You obviously have a niche for sales now. Give us some pointers on sales because you're very successful at this. And I know a lot of women in construction that want to branch off and start their own business struggle with this a little bit, right? What would you recommend or what are some pointers that you've come across that really work and help you to serve others?
Speaker 2 (00:06:54) - So the number one piece of advice I'm going to give anybody, woman, man, whatever is to be authentic.
Speaker 2 (00:07:01) - And you can listen to what I'm about to say and implement it to a tee, and it might not work for you. And the reason being is I am unique, You're unique. Everybody watching is unique, and what might work for me might not work for other people. And there's tons of sales consultants and sales coaches out there that say just follow the process.
Speaker 1 (00:07:22) - Well, guess what?
Speaker 2 (00:07:23) - It doesn't always work that way or it's not.
Speaker 1 (00:07:27) - Two plus two doesn't always equal four.
Speaker 2 (00:07:30) - Right, Exactly. And I binge watched so many YouTube videos. I listen to so many sales podcasts, everything when I first started in construction and I needed to learn the technical side before I felt like I could sell it. I guess the number one piece of advice is learn your trade or learn your field. So much so that if somebody randomly walking down the street wants to have a 30 minute conversation with you about roofing, electrical, plumbing, Hvac, don't know, building the world's tallest building, you can have a really technical conversation for 30 minutes and that puts you in a position of confidence and authority.
Speaker 2 (00:08:15) - And I do genuinely believe that if you're authentic, confident, and you come from having a place of technical authority, you can pretty much sell anything. And I have sold roofs to roofers and I honestly think I've sold roofs to roofers for those three reasons. I was myself. I'm very gregarious and outgoing, and I connect really well with people.
Speaker 1 (00:08:40) - So I can tell.
Speaker 2 (00:08:43) - You know, check that box. A lot of people are intimidated when they don't feel like they have that natural ability to connect with people. But you can learn that side of the sales equation through classes and trainings and things. The second is the confidence piece. I would not have been confident if I didn't have that technical know how and then that technical knowledge. I am constantly staying up with industry trends, new products, new ways to install the products. What if a product is failing in a particular market and it's not failing in another? Like, I want to know the science behind that, because ultimately if somebody calls me and wants a particular product on their home and I know that we can do it in a better way, that then maybe somebody else is offering and it's going to last the full 50 year warranty.
Speaker 2 (00:09:35) - I want to know that. And I think that's what helps with sales, is genuinely just being confident, being authentic and having that technical understanding of the product or the service that you're selling.
Speaker 1 (00:09:47) - Okay. I love that. I think that's the first time I've ever heard someone that I've spoken to regarding sales. The key thing that you said was really knowing what you're selling. I like the word service, what service you're giving and being curious about every aspect of it being, like you said, able to discuss it in a tech way. Right. I really appreciate that. That makes a lot of sense. Yes.
Speaker 2 (00:10:17) - So many people just want to I don't know, they they want to be showy and flashy, but at the end of the day, yeah, maybe that will sell. But are you selling something that somebody is buying because they understand or are you selling because you're painting this beautiful picture? And at the end of the day, they're like, Hey, I just really want the beautiful picture.
Speaker 2 (00:10:37) - Yeah, that's going to look nice. But I feel that a lot of people these days have information at their fingertips, and if you are not the one telling them that information, they're either getting wrong information or you're not looking like the expert because they feel that Google is telling them more.
Speaker 1 (00:10:54) - Right. Right. That's a good point. And also, I think what you said about that showy kind of sales one, when you say that, I think of like a car salesman and they'll make that sale, but it's never long lasting. Like, for example, when you're coming from a confident, authentic and knowledge based place and you're giving that service, that's something that then this person's going to repeat to another person. They're going to say, Wow, I had such an amazing experience with Amanda. She really helped me with ABC. And then that's how things really grow, right? As opposed to making that quick sale because you made it flashy. But then maybe later on the person gets that buyer's remorse, like, Oh, I really didn't.
Speaker 1 (00:11:35) - I don't know why I really did that. And then they don't discuss it. And so you're constantly hustling that hustle. I hate that word, too. It sounds like, Oh, not a fan.
Speaker 2 (00:11:47) - Being a salesperson for a construction company is a different mindset than being the. A business owner of that construction company. So for me, I hustled my butt off when I was in a sales capacity because that's all I was responsible for. Right. That's okay. For a short period of time, I could not have hustled in my third year because it was getting to the point where it was just exhausting and overwhelming. As a business owner, you need to be much more focused and concentrated on that sales part of your business because there's so many other things you have to be responsible for. So if you're a business owner who has sales people, you should really have a sales manager. If you are a business owner who is also selling, you have to stay focused and as honed in on sales as possible and on lead on lead generation.
Speaker 2 (00:12:43) - Because if you're not, you're going to be so scattered that you're not going to be able to focus on growing your business in other capacities. And as you know, sales is just one part of the equation. Execution and production is the other side of the equation. And then there's a whole other piece, which is administration, right? Right. If you're if you're chasing leads and if you're chasing sales, who's doing your bookkeeping, who's doing the updating of your processes and procedures? Who's the one that is making sure your books are accounted for properly? So hustling while in the short term could work really well is not going to build a multi six figure business. Seven figure even eight figure business.
Speaker 1 (00:13:29) - Yes, 100%. Absolutely. And while you're building this amazing construction company Maven, which I love the name so much and oh, you have an amazing story with the name, actually. So can you tell about the name Maven Course.
Speaker 2 (00:13:48) - So very long story short, I had an investor originally for this business and then unfortunately, it just it didn't work out.
Speaker 2 (00:13:55) - It wasn't a good fit at the end of the day. And he wanted me to call the company Amandas Roofing Company and was like, Absolutely not. I am not calling my roofing company, Amanda's roofing company. But the idea of having a little bit of Amanda in there was appealing to me and I was sort of ruminating on, Well, what am I going to call this business? And I was at the gym and I was like, Mid-set bench pressing. And all of a sudden the word maven popped into my head, Oh, Maven, why do I know that? And then I was thinking where I heard the term maven from before, and it was media maven. And media mavens are people who are so ingrained in their particular subject matter. And in that case, it's media or entertainment that they're maven's. The word maven means that you have a very deep knowledge or expertise in a very particular area. And in this case, my deep expertise was in exteriors and roofing. And I said, Wow, I really like that name Maven.
Speaker 2 (00:15:04) - And then I realized that my initials were in it. And if you look at my logo, I actually subtly highlighted a V within Maven, and the most awesome thing is that people are coming to me and they're saying, Amanda, I've noticed your initials within Maven. That's so awesome. So, so it accomplished the goal of having a little bit of me in it, but then it also accomplished the goal of encompassing everything that Maven is within the industry, which is the expert of the products and services that we sell.
Speaker 1 (00:15:39) - Yeah, I love that. And when I think when you told me that the first time, I immediately Googled the definition of Maven because yeah, because I honestly didn't know the definition of Maven. When I heard the word maven, I thought of Regal. I thought of elegant, like, these are the things that came to my mind, but I didn't really, quote know the definition. Air quotes guys of Maven. And then when I read about the specialty, I was like, Oh my gosh, this fits so well in so many ways.
Speaker 1 (00:16:15) - Is like meant to be. I love it. Absolutely love it.
Speaker 2 (00:16:20) - Well, thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:16:23) - So as you go through your journey of building this amazing business, you can tell me honestly who are the best tradies to work with. Electrician.
Speaker 2 (00:16:42) - Really? That's a really good question. Oh, gosh. Um.
Speaker 1 (00:16:46) - Who do you find a lot of ease with?
Speaker 2 (00:16:49) - Mm. Not that I don't don't love electricians. I do, because so much of what we touch requires a licensed electrician. Where I have found a lot of ease of passing referrals, believe it or not, is with plumbers. I might just be just like.
Speaker 1 (00:17:16) - My girlfriend Brooke right now. She's like haha, electricians and bummers.
Speaker 2 (00:17:21) - Because the electricians that I have connected with here in New Jersey aren't the right ones to be referral relationships with and the plumbers are. Sparky's in New.
Speaker 1 (00:17:31) - Jersey You're letting me down guys.
Speaker 2 (00:17:34) - And honestly I feel like I'm going to shoot myself in the foot here. But. What I do make referrals to electricians.
Speaker 2 (00:17:44) - It works out really well in the beginning, but then they get so busy that they start blowing off my referrals. And if you're not going to treat my referral like a VIP, then I can't refer you.
Speaker 1 (00:17:55) - Of course I'm totally on board with that. That's the way that's the way to treat your client like a VIP. And that's 100%. New Jersey, Sparky. Okay, You got pull together, guys. What?
Speaker 2 (00:18:09) - I need Leah, I need some female electricians in New Jersey. Don't have any that I'm connected with.
Speaker 1 (00:18:14) - Oh, well, we can make that happen for sure. We can make that happen.
Speaker 2 (00:18:18) - And the next time we do a podcast, maybe plumbers won't be my number one. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:18:24) - It's so funny for you to say that because electricians and plumbers, there's this like, love, hate. And one of my really good girlfriends, Brooke, she is a plumber, so she's just she's going to hear this and she's going to be like, ha ha.
Speaker 2 (00:18:40) - Yes. I think anybody, anybody in the trades can be a great referral partner and just a good connection to have for us on the exteriors of the home for so many reasons.
Speaker 2 (00:18:52) - And ultimately, I think that even other exterior contractors, other roofers and other siders can be great referral partners for me, because I'm specializing. I am not trying to do everything for everyone.
Speaker 1 (00:19:05) - And yes.
Speaker 2 (00:19:07) - If I don't want to take on a project because it's too big or too small, or maybe it's outside of my comfort zone, maybe they want a product that I've never done before and I'm so busy doing other installs with products that my crews are really comfortable with. Why wouldn't I refer somebody else?
Speaker 1 (00:19:24) - Right? Absolutely, because.
Speaker 2 (00:19:26) - I wouldn't be able to get to that person in a timely fashion, which will drive me crazy. And I wouldn't feel like I'm capable or able to install that product exactly how it's supposed to be installed in a timely manner. Yes. Can I do it? It might take us twice as long. And that's not profitable for me, right? Most homeowners don't want you to be on their jobsite for two weeks if it normally would take one.
Speaker 1 (00:19:50) - You bring up something that I love about construction.
Speaker 1 (00:19:53) - If something can go wrong, it will go wrong like 100% with construction. And one of the reasons why people have such a tarnished view of construction and construction workers is because a lot of the times they'll give you an estimate of when something will be done and it's double the time. So I found that it's not that these contractors are, you know, trying to pull the wool over your eyes. They're not good at managing expectations. And that's the disconnect. Yeah. When you elevate the construction culture, which Amanda, I am positive you will be doing, I am so stoked for and excited about because I really feel that the trades being the foundation of civilization and so important, it's such an integral piece to our society. It's it's a real shame that the culture hasn't been elevated, right? By creating an elevated atmosphere where you are managing expectations, you aren't treating your people like numbers, you're treating them like an actual team, that you are doing transformative leadership as opposed to transactional leadership, that these are the things that are going to put you at the top of your game.
Speaker 1 (00:21:10) - And right now it's the best time to be opening up a niche business, statistics say anyway, the stats are now is the time and you are filling a great need. So there's a huge deficit in skilled labor. So if your company treats their people like an integral part, if you're helping to build a team that's working towards a mutual mission and you're invested in your people in the sense of, okay, you identify that this person really wants to focus on the administrative aspect of your business and they want to go to the top of the tops that they can. Within that aspect of the business, you're going to work together with that person to help get them there. That makes them as invested in your business as you are invested in your business. Yes. Being able to manage that expectation with the clients and having this elevated construction culture is key. I have a very good sense with your background, you know how to manage expectations. That being said, what are some of your key pointers to help the rest of us out that struggle with this? Because if you can't meet that expectation immediately, your client's going to be disappointed.
Speaker 1 (00:22:30) - So what are some key pointers with that?
Speaker 2 (00:22:33) - Sure. So something that sets me and my company apart is the amount of detail that we put into. Our estimating part of the relationship with a customer and then also the contract with the customer. So in New Jersey, we have very strict consumer fraud laws, and I'm sure whoever is listening in other states are also consumer fraud laws that are in existence. And I take that very seriously for a lot of reasons. One, I am a homeowner myself and I have dealt with many contractors in the past, some of them great, some of them not great. And I have kicked myself in my own. But when a contractor says one thing and they do another, and then when they leave, I'm like, Um, what about the other thing you told me you were going to do? And because I didn't have a detailed contract with that contractor, I didn't really have any repercussions as a homeowner other than writing a bad review. If I really wanted to go down that route and don't tend to do that.
Speaker 2 (00:23:40) - So when I started my own company, I said, How can I make sure a homeowner never feels that way? Because ultimately that homeowner is going to become a salesperson for me in the future. And if I give them five star service from the time that I talk to them the very first time to the very last time that I leave their house after a job is done, then they are going to refer me and they're going to make my future job selling to more people a lot easier. So when I say that the estimating phase and the contracting phase of a project is probably the most important for me to focus on from a details perspective, need it because that estimate needs to be so detailed that it sets the expectation that if something comes up, it was completely unexpected because I am going down to such a granular level within the estimate that this homeowner knows that I'm checking things when I'm on site that could go wrong. For example, I was at a project the other day and it's this potential HOA reroof project, and there's two buildings.
Speaker 2 (00:24:54) - There's one building on the left of the road, there's one building on the right of the road. And I said, I really want to get into the attic of both of these buildings. And I know that you know this in large multifamily construction projects, even if the blueprints are exactly the same.
Speaker 1 (00:25:10) - Here we go. Yeah, here we go.
Speaker 2 (00:25:14) - You got building a and you have building B? Well, building B should have been built. Exact specifications of building. A Yep. Should have. Guess what, you had them going up at the same time. Which means that the crew on building A is different than the crew on building B you cannot control what the crew at Building B is doing. You can only control what the crew at Building A is doing based on the original specification. So unless Crew A is building building B, just like they built building a building, B is going to be different. Yeah. So I said to this HOA president, I said, Let me get into the attic of Building B, And she said, Well, they're the same buildings.
Speaker 2 (00:25:50) - I said, Well, they're really not.
Speaker 1 (00:25:52) - So yeah, guess what?
Speaker 2 (00:25:56) - They go up into the attic of building a looks great, super dry ventilation is awesome. All of the insulation is pulled back away from the eaves, turn the lights off. I see that the ventilation is balanced on the left and the right. What I mean by that is I see daylight coming through the soffits and there's no cat eyes on the nails. There's no rust on the nails of the in the plywood. So ventilation is really good. I go up into Building B's attic and I remove the hatch and immediately I feel the heat coming down on me. And I said, Well, that's different. I didn't experience that in building a I get up into that like a building. B, there's rust everywhere on the nails, which means that two things could be happening. There could be exterior moisture that's getting in or the moisture and the heat is accumulating so badly because of poor ventilation that it's making the nails rust on the inside.
Speaker 2 (00:26:45) - And I said, okay, well, clearly the crew who put this roof on or did this ventilation in this attic was different than the other building. And I look to the soffits, the areas where the eaves are and the insulation is covering the intake of air into the attic space. And that could have been something that I did not do. But because I did do, I am setting the expectation with the HOA board president that we are going to need to replace a whole lot of plywood on building B that we wouldn't have had to replace on building a home. So guess what happens? I give them the estimate and it's significantly higher than the other estimates that they've received. But they know why, right? They know it's because I am so detail oriented and. Care so much about making sure that I'm not just throwing change orders at people, that they're ultimately going to go with us because they realize that we're mitigating risk before we even step foot on site. Right. That is going to make us not have to spend so much money on marketing, whereas other companies are going to because people are going to want to refer us, Right.
Speaker 2 (00:28:03) - So I think that's ultimately when you're saying elevating the construction industry or the trades, I think that's where owners can make a difference.
Speaker 1 (00:28:12) - I agree with you completely by being that detail oriented, although the estimate might be higher, as you mentioned, because of the additional work, you're setting them up for success by coming forward with it in the beginning. The worst is when you get an estimate and then they're like, Oh, by the way, all of this, this is fucked up, got to go. And it's like double the estimated cost and they can't help but feel that even though instinctually we know they're not doing it on purpose, we can't help but feel like the wool was like pulled over our eyes, so to speak, in a way.
Speaker 2 (00:28:54) - Right. Or the other thing, when I'm in that position as a homeowner, I start questioning whether I made the right decision because I say to myself, shouldn't they have thought that this could even be a potential problem? Shouldn't they have? If they say that there is experience as they are, shouldn't I have been told that this could have been a potential problem?
Speaker 1 (00:29:16) - So I appreciate that high standard.
Speaker 1 (00:29:19) - You're really elevating. I am empathetic towards trades and construction because I have seen things like guys in the field 30 years and something they've never seen before pull out of left field with construction. But that's something that I love about it though, because you are constantly problem solving. You are creating all the time because you have to figure out a way to make it work. And I think that that's an amazing, exciting career because it's never going to get old. But I really like your approach because if you're coming at it from that perspective, you have a higher chance of not coming into the like, left field scenario, right? That detail oriented.
Speaker 2 (00:30:07) - And, and I appreciate what you just said that there really are things that come up that people have never seen before, regardless if they've been on the job for three days or 30 years. There still is an opportunity for that 30 year veteran contractor to take five minutes during the sales process and say. I have seen it all until I see something I've never seen before.
Speaker 2 (00:30:34) - Yes. Yes. Yes. Mr. and Mrs. Homeowner. Mr. and Mrs. Building Owner. I want to let you know that if that happens, this is the process for me, bringing it to your attention. And this is the process where you and I are going to work together to solve for that problem that is completely unique and something that none of us have ever seen before. So if that happens, A, B, C, and D will happen. And this is what the change order process looks like, because a lot of times I feel that contractors don't set themselves up for success in the beginning and then they struggle to set themselves up for success when the shit hits the fan. Yes. Yes.
Speaker 1 (00:31:17) - Dead on. Dead on. Yes. Yes. One of my buddies who owns his own construction company, he does a great job in saying that when I peel back the wall, I don't have x ray vision. So just like when a doctor goes in for surgery, he's going in anticipating that this is how things are going to go.
Speaker 1 (00:31:38) - But everyone is built differently. And just like you said, the blueprints don't always match up. Most of the time they don't just is what it is. And when he gives that analogy, I think that that helps the homeowner understand for potential outliers, right?
Speaker 2 (00:31:58) - Yeah. The other thing that I do, and I've coached a lot of other salespeople on as well as business owners, is have a checklist, have a printed checklist that you go over every single time. And this helps with your confidence that you're not missing something. But it also shows the homeowner that these are all the things. And you can even put a nice little graphic up here if you want. These are all the things that could potentially go wrong. And you can even check off that you reviewed those with the homeowner so that when you send that during your your estimate phase or your contract phase, you remind the homeowner or the building owner that you went over those things with them. So, you know, God forbid something does happen and you're like, oh, thank God I went over this with somebody.
Speaker 2 (00:32:50) - I know that I did it. Here's the checklist. And they say, Oh, you didn't really talk to me about that. Well, you can reference that. You went over it. And it really just helps to reorient people that, yes, you did have a conversation about this and you're just reminding them very gently that this is the process in place when things go wrong because, hey, we're in construction.
Speaker 1 (00:33:11) - That's an excellent idea. That's excellent. I love that.
Speaker 2 (00:33:15) - I've heard your bases.
Speaker 1 (00:33:16) - Yeah, right. Regarding putting together a great crew, what type of people do you look for when you're putting together a crew?
Speaker 2 (00:33:27) - Oh, that is a really good question. So for me, crews start with my production leaders. I'm hiring a former Green Beret as my production leader. He spent 20 years in the military. And fortunately and this is like a unicorn and a half, but fortunately he has prior industry experience.
Speaker 1 (00:33:46) - Amazing. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:33:48) - Before you went into college 20 years ago, he spent some time roofing and siding and yeah, 20 years ago is a long time ago.
Speaker 2 (00:33:55) - But you know what? It's sort of like riding a bike. He has the military experience that I was looking for in terms of processes, procedures, team building safety, all of that, all of that great experience that the military affords For me. Crews start with the production leader and whether they're an in-house crew or they're a subcontracted crew. Having somebody to manage the crews is really important. And when I say manage, I don't mean hovering over people, making sure that they're putting a nail into a piece of plywood properly. I mean, to make sure that the crew is aware of whatever you're contractually obligated to do and not do. Because at the end of the day, if your crews are doing things that are more than what your contract stipulates, you as the business owner are losing money, whether that's losing money in time or losing money in materials. So that production leader is there to sort of manage the job overall. They're also there to manage the expectation of the homeowner and to make sure the homeowner is not getting in the way of the crews, because I'm sure that you've all seen it where it is a hovering homeowner.
Speaker 1 (00:35:08) - We all hate that.
Speaker 2 (00:35:11) - Who is potentially creating a hazard for the crews because they're hovering. Right. Or they're creating a distraction for the crews and they're taking up time that you didn't budget for. So that's really where that that crew leader comes in or that production leader comes in. Then when it comes to subcontracted crews for us, I weigh very heavily the opinions of my supply houses and the people who helped me get the materials I need because they often are working with other tradespeople and exterior contractors and they listen. Yeah, they know that if a crew is not happy at another contractor and they're looking to make a move and honestly, some of my best crews have come from other contractors in the area through the supply houses. And that's simply me saying, hey, have you have you caught wind of anybody looking to make a move? And I love having personally for exterior crews. I love having five person crews plus a crew chief. And that means that I'm paying a little bit more money per day. But the jobs are usually getting done a lot faster.
Speaker 2 (00:36:28) - And the crew chief is there sort of acting as second line leadership to my production leader and the crew chief and my production leader are going to be like this, you know, So maybe my production leader had to run out and grab some materials for something unexpected. And while they were out, the crew chief says, hey, something else happened on the job site. Well, what that does is it allows us to make sure that we have oversight the entire time. And it also allows the crew members to say, hey, I think there might be something wrong or we should maybe put a stop to work right now because of XYZ. And that crew chief is the person who those crew members ultimately have a really strong relationship with. So that's who I look for in terms of my crew. So in house, I'm always going to have my production leader or. Operations leader, whatever you want to call them right then. Look for crews who are managed by a crew chief who has a really good relationship with their crew members, and then look for usually on the exterior side, roofing and siding crews of five people to make sure that my homeowners have us on site as few days as possible.
Speaker 1 (00:37:43) - That's very, very smart, very clever. I see this mistake often with business owners that are just starting out. They want to nickel and dime and don't understand that you are actually costing yourself more money by doing that, then putting smart investment in other places. Yeah, that's very wise. Very wise. Now I have to ask, is that something that you observed along the way and picked up or did you just instinctually know? Like that's, that's really very clever to pick up on, I got to say so.
Speaker 2 (00:38:23) - Yes and yes. Okay.
Speaker 1 (00:38:27) - Okay.
Speaker 2 (00:38:28) - My desire of leadership comes from my corporate background and understanding that. You can't be everything to everyone at all times. And it really does require oversight of leadership for a project, whether that's a corporate project or a construction project to be executed as seamlessly as possible, because there always has to be somebody that has the capacity for decision making. And that's one piece of the puzzle that you just asked about. Now, my instinctual aspect comes from my own experience as a homeowner where and this is funny, getting back to electric electricians, I have had many electricians and a few houses.
Speaker 2 (00:39:12) - My house that I'm in now, the house that I lived in previously and my mom's house. And the best experience that we've ever had was when when a swarm of electricians pounced on our house. Everything done that we needed done within a few hours. And I was like, Holy crap, this was executed so well. So you had the in the one case where where I reference in my head all the time, you had the owner of the company there, you had his foreman, and then you had two. What are they? What's the what's an electrician? Who's more of your junior electricians apprentice?
Speaker 1 (00:39:51) - They're going to be apprentice.
Speaker 2 (00:39:52) - Yeah. So we had the owner, the foreman, the lead, and then we had two apprentice electricians. And the job wasn't very big, but it could have taken a day or a day and a half if one electrician showed up. It took 2 or 3 hours to have four guys here getting everything done. And as a busy homeowner who likes to have my house back after a project done, that just made so much sense to me.
Speaker 2 (00:40:19) - And I said, Hey, the price was the same. Maybe I paid a little bit more, maybe $100 more. But as a homeowner, I want you in my house as little as possible.
Speaker 1 (00:40:30) - No offense, guys.
Speaker 2 (00:40:32) - Yes, because I have two little kids. I have two dogs who are great, but they're also very neurotic and anxious. And I'm a whirlwind. So, you know, at the end of the day, if you're not in my way, that's great. So why I'm bringing that up is that people can structure their businesses however they want and however make sense to them. But if you have the opportunity to have a larger crew, get a job done faster, you're going to have an easier time selling that job for a higher price point because you're giving people convenience. You're giving them the convenience of not having to schedule multiple days where they're opening up their house to you, where they have to put their dogs into doggy daycare because, you know, maybe they don't like other people, maybe they have a newborn at home and they don't really want a lot of people in their house for multiple days.
Speaker 2 (00:41:24) - You're going to have such an easier time telling that homeowner, Hey, I know I'm a little bit more expensive, but I'm giving you so much of your time back.
Speaker 1 (00:41:34) - That's a great way to explain that to a homeowner. That's wonderful. And here's the other thing. I'm super big on safety. When you have more hands on deck, things are safer because when you have less people, there's so much pressure to get things done. People do things that then they shouldn't do because they think it's going to cut down on time and it's a larger risk and then potential for issues. So when you have more hands on deck, it's less likely of having a safety issue as well.
Speaker 2 (00:42:04) - Yes. And there's also oversight, meaning, say, a company is trying to work with a ton of homeowners at one time and they're on skeleton crews. Maybe they're usually running a crew of four people, but they're running a crew of two. And they come to something that they've never seen before. And instead of feeling empowered to stop the job and say, hey, let me just go to this other part of the job site where a foreman is or maybe the owner is and ask that question.
Speaker 2 (00:42:35) - They might feel the pressure to do something incorrectly rather than taking time and making a phone call. Like it all comes down to culture. If if you're running your business nickel and diming everything, you're opening yourself up to liability. Right? Right. And I think there's there's I don't know if it's being a woman led business or what, but I feel like I'm bringing something to the exterior trades that isn't really existing around here. And and that's I'm focusing more on the five star service element of construction and not only not only providing five star service for my customers, but also providing five star service for my crews. And ultimately that's going to cost me as the owner more money out of my pocket. But in the long run, it's so much easier to grow a company. And not hustle and not struggle. If I'm not just focused on five star service for the customer, but I'm also focused on five star service for my cruise. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:43:43) - If you are good to your crew, they will stay with you for years and you will get the pick of the quality.
Speaker 1 (00:43:53) - I love the higher echelon, especially because these guys have seen it all. Been through it all. Done it all. Like they know somebody who's investing in them and somebody who's treating them like a number. Right? I have seen that having that structure that you just spoke about, having the owner, the foreman, a lead and then apprentice is really important. You do not want a crew of experts, believe it or not. And there's very good reason for this. As I went through my apprenticeship and continue, I'm about to take my journeyman license. Woo! Yeah, I several times was quality control without knowing I was quality control. See? So apprentices we know nothing where.
Speaker 2 (00:44:45) - Questions, right?
Speaker 1 (00:44:46) - We ask tons of annoying questions. But so many times I prevented a journeyman from making a mistake because I was like, wait a minute, why are you doing it like this again? Could you please explain? And he goes, Oh, oh, oh. I actually this is supposed to be like this because they get complacent.
Speaker 1 (00:45:04) - They've been doing this for 30 years over and over and over. And sometimes it's like muscle memory or they just go into like auto robot zone, like, so because you have somebody inquisitive and new and observing, sponging up everything. They ask the right question and it's an easy fix. Yeah, that very experienced tradesmen or journeymen would not have necessarily gone to because they're so used to it being a different type of issue. And so having that that range is really important. And I think a lot of new construction like business owners, they have this concept in their head that they need only experts, only guys super experienced and and they think to themselves, I don't want to have to hold someone's hand. I don't want to have to oversee them. And that is a mistake to think like this because you should want to be able to work with the people that is working for you. Yeah, you don't want to babysit, but there is a difference between elevating your crew, educating your crew, how you want them to operate and the things you want them to look for and honing in their talents and babysitting.
Speaker 1 (00:46:28) - There's a very big difference. So I find that that's a big mistake A lot of startups make, and that's a lot of reasons why they fail, actually, because then you also have the aspect of these guys are competing. They're all experts. They all feel like they're the best of the best and no one wants to work together. No one wants to to listen. And somebody has got to be, like you said, a decision maker. Somebody has got to be the one to pull the trigger. And if you have this bumping heads kind of thing doesn't never works out again. I have to ask you, how did you pick up on this? It's it's from that one experience of seeing the swarm of electricians attack. And you really like you're super observant to pick up on the difference between the two and then implement it.
Speaker 2 (00:47:20) - Yeah, I think it's just a culmination of everything I've experienced in life. I am a very fortunate person to have seen a lot of incredible things over my lifetime and 34 years and.
Speaker 2 (00:47:35) - I don't know if it's because I have ADHD and my brain operates, really, But I don't forget things. Well, I forget everything. I forget my keys. I forget where the phone was. I was like running around my house with like a chicken with my head cut off before this call because I couldn't find my phone. But I don't forget experiences and I tend to build on experiences and think that's why I make a really bad employee because so many business owners just want employees to be there to do their job. Like do everything I tell you from A to Z and then leave at the end of the day. Yes, The best business owners, the best entrepreneurs are those who learn from their experiences and don't repeat the same mistakes over and over and over again. So I genuinely just believe that it's a compounded effect of everything I've ever experienced and learned in my life. Whether it was applicable directly to construction or if it was when I was running talent development programs for private equity firms. Very unique experience and and journey to where I am today.
Speaker 1 (00:48:44) - I love it, though. I love it. It all comes together. It all comes together. What tool is in your tool belt? What's something that you carry with you every day that you have learned that you implement almost every day to help you achieve your goals?
Speaker 2 (00:49:03) - Oh, that's a good one for me. I think that having the right inner circle is probably the tool that most people don't realize as a tool. And it's not just one person. It is. Everyone who I need to make sure my business and my personal life is operating efficiently and as productively as possible. So if you think about your inner circle like a multi-tool, if we're going to go with the tool, real tool analogy, I love it.
Speaker 1 (00:49:46) - I love it. I'm on board with this.
Speaker 2 (00:49:48) - There are a thousand multi tools out there and there are a thousand different people who will appreciate each one of those multi tools. But you have to find the one where no matter when you pull it out of your tool belt, it's going to have what you need.
Speaker 2 (00:50:05) - So think about your inner circle as that multi tool that you cannot live without, because if you're on a jobsite and your school calls and says, Hey, your kid is vomiting all over their classroom, you need to come pick them up because your husband's not answering his phone and neither is your emergency contact. And you're like, All right, whip out your multi-tool. Who do I have in my back pocket? Because I cannot leave my job site for whatever reason, But who do have in my back pocket that is going to drop everything else in their life right now and go pick up my vomiting child? I know that that's extreme, but that's what I mean. Like, your inner circle has to be so tight that whether it's a question about financing a truck to make sure your production leader has a vehicle to drive and, hey, your bank is not. Working with you really well. Who can you pick up the phone and call and make this make this happen when you need it? Or perhaps it is.
Speaker 2 (00:51:03) - Hey, I'm really struggling in my marriage right now because everything is going on in my life all at the same time. And I just need to talk to somebody who I trust and who can relate and who won't judge me like that person is also extremely valuable. So. Everybody who's listening to this. If I can give you one piece of advice, it's to. After this after this podcast, or if you're watching the video, take five minutes and brain dump everybody in your life who, you know would give you the shirt off your back or who would drop everything that they are doing to help you and nurture those relationships.
Speaker 1 (00:51:44) - Oh, I love that. I love that. And I'm going to I'm going to step one one foot into that a little deeper, because one of the reasons why I have this podcast is because I come from a background where I did not have a circle. And every book that you read of success and helping to live your best life says exactly what you're talking about. Having a core group of people that support you or what's the saying you're the mean of the five people you associate with.
Speaker 1 (00:52:20) - So if you're in an environment where that's not easily accessible, where the people around you are not attempting the goals or the lifestyle that you're seeking, what would you recommend to help put them in a place where they can find the connections that they're looking for?
Speaker 2 (00:52:40) - That's a really good question. So it depends on what you're looking for or who you're looking for. But say it's say it's other entrepreneurs that are in your local market because you're more of a face to face person versus a zoom type of person. Join the local chamber of commerce, whether it's a city Chamber of Commerce or local Chamber of Commerce or the County Chamber of Commerce. I have created really great relationships with other fellow chamber members. And you have to kind of go through a few events before you find some people that you really want to spend time with. But I can almost guarantee you that the more you put into a local chamber of commerce, the more you're going to get out of it. So if you just show up at a monthly networking event and hope to create your inner circle from that, that's not how that's going to work.
Speaker 2 (00:53:33) - But if you're willing to invest time in other people to have them reciprocate, that is going to be something that is key to building any relationship. So if you're not naturally an outgoing person and you throw yourself into work because you're an introvert and it's two people you out there. Right. Totally get it. I've definitely been in that position. I'm not an introvert, but being an extrovert who who's default actually is to become reclusive when I'm overly like overly stimulated.
Speaker 1 (00:54:08) - You're an Amber Alert.
Speaker 2 (00:54:10) - Am I? Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:54:11) - You're an Amber Alert. So an Amber Alert can turn it on and and then need a break to recharge. A real.
Speaker 2 (00:54:19) - Pivot. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:54:20) - A real extrovert is cannot be alone or rarely wants to be alone. And just no matter how many people is constantly energized by others. So you're totally in Amber Alert. Totally focused, sir.
Speaker 2 (00:54:37) - I will turn it on. But as quickly as I turn it on, I need to turn it off because I will give it my all and then it drains me.
Speaker 2 (00:54:45) - Yes. So but I love people and I love events and things like that. So if you're not naturally inclined to want to make those connections, but you're struggling with the fact that you don't have those connections, try If you're looking for business connections, try to join a chamber or I've actually found some really awesome events on Eventbrite that have not been marketed well in my local area by other means. But for some reason they're marketed on Eventbrite and I've found some really great people that I enjoy by randomly showing up to an event that I found on Eventbrite.
Speaker 1 (00:55:21) - That is great advice. I have never heard that before. Chamber of Commerce. I'm I'm taking your advice. I'm telling you right now I'm lucky by building the podcast and building community within the trades. I finally have my my badass ride or die support. But but I love the idea of going to Chamber of Commerce. I wouldn't have thought of that. And that's an excellent idea. That's wonderful. I would love to investigate that. And I think that that gives people a really tangible thing that they can do to create their group.
Speaker 1 (00:56:02) - And it's so important to to have that to have something to do because it's easy to say, oh, go get your support group. Well, if you grew up in an environment where that doesn't exist, you don't even know where to start. So yeah, that's excellent. Thank you. Thank you so much for that great advice. Absolutely fantastic. I don't want to let you go, Amanda, but I'm fine.
Speaker 2 (00:56:28) - I have to go demo a shed at my grandmother's house and play with metal, so I'm. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:56:34) - Oh, thank you. Thank you so much for doing this, Amanda. This was absolutely wonderful. I really appreciate it. And you are just a plethora of amazing, insightful, empowering advice. I love it.
Speaker 2 (00:56:49) - Well, hey, if you ever want to do shorts or something in the future and you want to just get down to advice like Q&A advice, Rapidfire, things that I can share, I would love to.
Speaker 1 (00:56:59) - Yeah. Damn, Skippy. Are you kidding? Oh, you're in trouble now, girl.
Speaker 1 (00:57:04) - You got it. Now for show notes and for anyone who wants to reach out, where can they find you?
Speaker 2 (00:57:11) - I am all over Facebook all day, every day, and it's just backslash. Amanda, Not so we'll put it somewhere that you guys can access that easy. And then also I'm going to be using LinkedIn a lot more. I don't know if any of you guys are on LinkedIn, but I have actually found some phenomenal connections, not so much on the buyer side, but on the fellow tradesmen side or supplier side by utilizing LinkedIn more. So yeah, if you guys want to connect with me on LinkedIn, I'd be there too.
Speaker 1 (00:57:44) - All right, Amanda, thank you again. I really appreciate your amazing.
Speaker 2 (00:57:47) - Talk to you soon.
Speaker 1 (00:57:49) - Thank you for joining us. If you felt a spark in today's episode, I invite you to write a review. I'd love to hear what lit you up. Take what resonates with you, and if you'd like to hear more of the Spark life, please subscribe like follow and share.
Speaker 1 (00:58:05) - Until next time, create the sparks in your life.
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