Lia: Welcome to the Sparky Life Podcast. I'm your host, Lia Lamela, and here we create the sparks in our lives. Join me on this electrical journey where I highlight skilled trade tales and construction career opportunities with those I've met along the way. Thank you for joining, for Trade Tales continued. On today's episode, we speak with a master electrician and owner of ATT Electric. She has over two decades of experience in the electrical industry. Dawn Ohama is quite accomplished. Not only does she have a prolific electrical career, but she also volunteers as a firefighter. Dawn joins us on the Sparky Life from Alberta, Canada. This conversation with Dawn really highlights shaping our own attitude towards our circumstances and mining nuggets of wisdom and value from our experiences so that we can cultivate these into gems to share with others. How can you blend your negative trials into moments of inspiration and enlightenment? Dawn tells us if you pay attention and are willing to shift your perspective, that you learn the most important things when things are the worst. We need more mentors in the skilled trades like Dawn, and today she shares with us her electrical journey. How will you step up to be the best you you can be for yourself, for those around you, and for those yet to come? I seem to have a lot of friends in Canada. Hi.
Dawn: How's it going?
Lia: I'm good. I'm good. Thank you so much for joining me. At one time you worked for the IBEW. What position did you hold there?
Dawn: Well, I started out as an apprentice electrician, and over the years, I once got my journeyman certification, was a job steward for on and off, probably for five years and then maybe not even quite five years, and then I was hired on as an assistant business manager.
Lia: Wow, that's a lot of work.
Dawn: Not bad, considering at that time I was 26 years old.
Lia: Oh, not bad at all. And then, I mean, what was your experience in your local. Did you have a positive experience? I would hope so, since you you ended up working for the IBEW there.
Dawn: I had wonderful experiences. Yeah. Yeah. All the way through. Actually, it's interesting how I signed up with the union. I don't know if I told you this story, but I worked in Calgary, Alberta for a while, and I was working on this job site, and I was working with this electrician, and he was, he was just not a very nice person. And so, you know, we would go to jobs and I worked with him for quite a while on and off. And this one day we were in this high rise downtown doing some renovations and there was all trades on site and it was in an occupied office building. And during lunch time he left and he said, “While I'm gone, I'd like you to do this, this and this.” I said, “No problem.” I probably didn't say it that nicely, but this is…yeah, okay.
Lia: I got you.
Dawn: Yeah. And and he says, and “I'm going to go for lunch. And when I come back we'll continue on”. I said, no problem. Okay, whatever. So he left and while he was gone, the other tradesmen told me, well, you know, actually we're only allowed to drill with the hammer drill after hours. They asked us not to do that during business hours, and I was like, “Oh, okay.” So I stopped using the hammer drill and I had some lunch and I was chatting with the other trades and, you know, they were pitying me. And I'm not used to being pitied. It's kind of one of those the worst feelings you could have, especially when you're like, you're trying to build yourself as a woman in the trades and you just want to be seen as equal.
Lia: Yes.
Dawn: Really. Like, I don't want to be seen as anything but the same as all of you guys, right? And so what they were pitying about was the way that I was being treated by my journeymen. And they were like, “you know, I can't believe he talks to you that way. And and, you know, he's such a jerk.” And they were going on and on and on about how terrible he was to me. And I was like, “Oh, oh, that's really bad. Oh, that's embarrassing.” And then later, like, fast forward, he comes back from lunch and everybody's back to work and I'm working away. And he goes, “Oh, how come that stuff's not done?” And I said, “Well, the guys told me that it had to be done after hours, so I'll stay after work and I'll make sure it gets done.” And he says, “Well, I told you to do it.” And I said, “Yeah, I know, but I called you. You didn't answer.” And so this kind of bantering back and forth a little bit and then I say, You know what, I'm really sorry. It will never happen again. Next time I'll just do what you told me to do and then we'll suffer the consequences. Right? It's too late.
Lia: Right.
Dawn: And then I walked away and he called me back, and he says, “No, I'm not done with you.” And he started yelling at me again. I said, “you know, I'm really sorry.”
Lia: Egotistical.
Dawn: So three times I walked away and we had like very similar conversation. By the time of the third time, we were still having this altercation, a crowd had gathered around.
Lia: No way.
Dawn: So the same guys who were pitying me before are now watching this and I'm like, okay. And I'm trying to keep some dignity left, right. And I walked away and I walked away and I walked away. And finally I turned around and I looked at him and I said, “You know what? You're right. This is never going to happen again.” And he says, What do you mean? And I said, I quit. And they all started clapping.
Lia: Oh. Yes, yes.
Dawn: And he says, “You can't quit on me.” And he says, “We got work to do.” And I said, “You should have thought about that before you continued to treat me like shit.” Right? And…Oh, sorry. Are we allowed to swear here?
Lia: Yes. We swear here.
Dawn: Sometimes I swear.
Lia: Same.
Dawn: I said, “you should have thought about that before you continued.” And I said, “And I tried and I gave you the opportunities and you continued, and you continued.” And I said, “So I'm done.” “Well, you can't quit.” And I said, “Yeah, I can.” And I did. And so then I walked out and all the guys are clapping and get outside of the building and I have my lunch bag and my backpack. In my tool bag and my jacket and it was hot. And I was downtown Calgary and my car was parked like, where, and I started crying. Oh, like a baby. And I'm, like, sobbing. And I'm walking downtown Calgary. Can't find my car. I got all this stuff. I'm sweating because it's hot. I call my dad and I'm like, “Dad, I had to quit.” And he's like, “Are you crying? Stop crying.” Literally. I left from that spot right there. And I drove to the union hall because, you know, over the years I'd heard a lot of women went to the union hall because it was fair. And I was like, what is fair? I mean, I don't know. I'm a hard worker. I was always respected for the work that I did because I worked my butt off all the time, no matter how much of an asshole someone was obviously right, I literally, I left that job site and I drove down to the union hall and I was like cleaning up my tears. And I'm like, okay, I'm going to do this. But yeah, so that was kind of how my career in the union started. So the first job that I went to for the union and so, remember where I just came from, I take my first call through the union hall and I walk up to the site and then my foreman is this, or general foreman or whatever, is this older redneck is redneck? Could be. He's got the cowboy hat, the steel toed cowboy boots, and he's, you know, got the swagger. And he says to me, um, you know, it's not going to be like those other jobs you've been on. Dawn. “Oh, what do you mean?” He says, “Well, you're going to actually have to work here.”
Lia: Oh, gosh.
Dawn: And I was like…
Lia: Eye roll, eye roll.
Dawn: You know, you get that tightness in your chest when those things happen. I have that right now because it just brings me right back, because I remember feeling so devastated and I'm like, “What the fuck?”
Lia: It's crazy because literally what you're describing, I can look back in my path to becoming an electrician and I'm like, “Yep, it's very similar.”
Dawn: Yeah.
Lia: It's amazing how they think you didn't literally kill yourself to get where you are.
Dawn: Some of that perception does come from a portion of the population that does take advantage of things, but there is a portion, and unfortunately that sometimes that 2 or 5% or whatever percentage it is tends to have such a, you know, an effect on these guys that they miss the rest of us that actually work to be there and and stuff. So I mean, it is, there's truth to it.
Lia: I understand what you're saying, but. I expect their intelligence to be of the level that there are good doctors and there are bad doctors, there are good people, and there are not good people. So I'm sorry you had a bad experience with this one female or whatnot, but that's like me saying, “Oh, I had this horrible experience with this misogynistic creep. And so all men are just disgusting pigs.” Right?
Dawn: Right. Every man who wears a cowboy hat and cowboy boots now, or something just as ridiculous.
Lia: Right? Exactly.
Dawn: Yeah. So I don't know if you got this from me, but I'm super shy and quiet and introverted and never talk about my feelings.
Lia: Oh sure! Yeah, a real introvert.
Dawn: So I looked at him and I said, “Do you have a problem with me?” And he just kind of stepped back and I said, “Because I'll leave right now. You tell me you don't want me on this job site, because I'm here to work. And if you don't want me to work, I'm gone. Tell me right now.” I said, “I'll go back. I'll go back to the union hall. I don't need this shit.”
Lia: Yes. Good for you.
Dawn: “Oh, no, no, no, no, no. Sit down. Sit down. I'm sorry. Let's finish this paperwork.” So we do all our paperwork. The story turns out really wonderfully, actually.
Lia: I'm on the edge of my seat. I'm like, Tell me.
Dawn: Fast forward about a week and a half, maybe two weeks later, I get called into the office, and I was like, “Maaa, what the hell? What? What does he want now? Right? Nobody gets called to the office.” And he called me in to apologize and he said, “Dawn, the first day I painted you with a brush and I made an assumption. And not only have you proven me wrong, you've really taught me a lesson.” And he says, “I'm really sorry. And you're probably the best apprentice we've got here. I've heard nothing but great things about you. If you need anything, any, you know, whatever we can do to make your stay here with us, better let us know.” And he says I'm sorry. Yeah, it was awesome.
Lia: There's the intelligence right there. He assessed himself. He recognized what he did was wrong and then followed through with the right thing. You couldn't ask more of a human being. Wonderful.
Dawn: Well, you could hope that if that didn't happen to begin with. But sometimes when it does, because we all make those mistakes.
Lia: Yeah, we're people. I've done it. I've judged somebody before I've met them. Right. Of course.
Dawn: Of course, I do it. And it's like, oh, okay. But sometimes you just sort of eat that crow. You got to go back to make things better and own it.
Lia: Yes.
Dawn: And he did. And so we had a wonderful relationship. And I worked on that job site for a long time until I was ready to go to school. And it was great. It was fun. But that's how it started. And that was my first ever union job.
Lia: That's wonderful. That's wonderful. So I find that in the unions, women tend to be more protected. And by that I mean, you're less likely to get severe hostility. It's not that it never happens, it's just less likely, so that they want to uphold a certain standard. They want to hold themselves accountable.
Dawn: Yeah.
Lia: Now I've learned through my path that there are unions that are legitimate unions and the locals are wonderful. And it's all about protecting the workers. And then there's rat unions. Do you guys have rat unions in Canada?
Dawn: What do you mean by rat unions, like employer driven, versus employee, or like membership driven?
Lia: So the rat local would be a local that caters to the contractor as opposed to catering to the employee, the worker.
Dawn: Yeah, we definitely do. We do have that. Yeah. So the difference is, is like the collective agreements aren't ratified or aren't voted on by the membership versus it's voted on by the contractors. And then the employees when they come in, that they are covered by that agreement. But the agreement isn't one that they voted on themselves. So it's not based on their necessarily their best interests.
Lia: Right.
Dawn: Yeah. That being said, I think that I've never worked for them, so it's hard for me to say what it's like on the inside working there. So I teach now and so I'm under a teacher's union basically at the college. My business is non-union and I haven't actually worked union since. I think the last union job was when I was pregnant with my son and he is going to be 13 this summer. So it's been a while since I've worked inside that environment. That being said, I work through all different scopes. And they're obviously all the way up to assistant business manager.
Lia: What took you out of the union? What sparked the business? Because that's amazing
Dawn: Oh, the business?
Lia: Yeah, we don't have enough female entrepreneurs and business women in our area. In our field. Yeah. In construction.
Dawn: Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's funny because while I was on maternity leave with my son, I decided to go to school. I always would. I go to like, I used to do a course or something where I learned at least something new every year. And so that year I decided, well, I was on mat leave, so why not go do my masters?
Lia: Hold on, hold on. Done. So you make sure every year you're furthering your education in one way or another. I can't imagine how you became so successful.
Dawn: Then I apply that in different ways now. So I'm not necessarily always doing school, but I do other things.
Lia: Right. Right.
Dawn: Yeah. No, it's yeah, no.
Lia: I love that. I love that. I thought it was important to point out because that's very impactful, life changing behavior to constantly grow, to constantly be teaching yourself something new. Okay. So I interrupt you. I apologize. Go ahead.
Dawn: You just filled my bucket. Thank you. That's really sweet. Thank you. I appreciate that. So I decided to do my masters while I was on leave, and I'm probably if I don't send it to you, remind me to, because I have a picture of me literally, like with all my books on the table, on the dining room table, nursing my son and doing my masters.
Lia: Oh, my gosh, you are Wonder Woman.
Dawn: I had a two year old at home. Yeah. Yeah. So.
Lia: Dawn, how did you do it?
Dawn: You have no idea.
Lia: I don't.
Dawn: Like this. It's not. So some friends found out that I had my masters and they wanted me to look at me pulling electrical permits for them. And I was like, Well, if I'm going to pull electrical permits, I needed to make sure that I had some kind of insurance so that I wasn't liable because I understand the liability. That's a big part of the master's program. And I was like, Well, I didn't want to carry that liability and or bring that into my home, you know? And so then I was like, Well, the only way I could not carry that liability personally is to incorporate a business. So then I incorporated the business myself. I met with a bunch of other business owners and talked to them. Yeah. And then as soon as I did that, so I started pulling some permits for some friends and then people started asking me to do work. And then it just kind of grew from there and it literally like, it just I'm like, just because I've been in this community for quite a few years, I mean, at that point I had been here for, he was born, yeah, like ten years on and off and full time for five. Yeah. So I just started doing work basically, and then it just grew from there. And then an opportunity came up where another business owner in town wanted to partner up and do some work together. So we did a couple little projects together and seemed like a really good thing. So I actually officially partnered up with him. That was short lived. I'm pretty sure I was into that business about six months and I was like, “What was I thinking?” But what I was actually thinking was I was exhausted and I was actually going to like, not have my business anymore and just go back to work somewhere, right? And then he came along and I was like, okay, well, maybe sharing that workload of owning the business might be the way to go.
Lia: Right. That makes sense.
Dawn: Yes. And so it was like, okay, well, I'd be okay to share that. We did a couple projects. I've known him for many years but didn't know-know him.
Lia: Mhm. Yes I totally know what you mean.
Dawn: Yeah. And so we partnered up together and about six months in I was like what were you thinking. Like, this is the worst decision you've ever made. And then it kind of got worse. I'm going to. Yeah, I'm going to go on a little tour here.
Lia: I'm with you. Let's go.
Dawn: It got worse. So within the first six months, I realized it was really toxic. Him and his wife were not who I thought they were, which is really unfortunate. And so I ended up catching them, writing themselves checks and stealing money.
Lia: Oy vey.
Dawn: I called them out on it, had a meeting, called them out on it. It just, it didn't stop. But then my husband got cancer.
Lia: Wow.
Dawn: I know. I'm deep.
Lia: One two punch. One two punch.
Dawn: Yeah. So we were just getting married, so we had kids, and then we got married. Blah, blah, blah. We did everything about life backwards.
Lia: You did it according to how it worked for you. That's what matters.
Dawn: Yeah. No, it worked. And, well, it didn't work. We're divorced, but it was the best thing for us at that time anyways. And then I was like, okay, well, I'm done. And I'm starting making my exit plan, which was, I was going to open a lighting store. I'm all over the place. So I had all this like drama all the way through. That's within two years. Right. That's a lot of action for two years.
Lia: Oh, yeah, for sure.
Dawn: So he gets cancer. And then I was like, You know what? There's only so much energy that one person can have. I have young kids. I have a husband with cancer, and I have a toxic business relationship. So what has to be done today? Well, my kids and my husband, there's no choice. So I had to kind of disconnect and just tell myself, okay, I know what they're doing.
Lia: Right.
Dawn: I have to continue to let it happen. And I'm going to have to deal with this life here before I can deal with that. I'm like, okay. And so once you made that conscious decision, I was okay. I mean, not okay, okay. But, you know, you just got to do what you got to do. And so fast forward husbands good, kids are good. They're still stealing.
Lia: Yes, of course, thieves are thieves.
Dawn: And I called them out on it. Like I'm not shy.
Lia: Yes. No, no. I'm sure not. But, you know, I find that people who operate on that level, it's been my experience that a lot of them lie to themselves so much.
Dawn: Yeah.
Lia: Amongst lying to others that they themselves don't even know where the truth lies anymore.
Dawn: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. There was a whole bunch of things that were going on. It was like crazy, crazy.
Lia: When we first spoke, you said something that was so impactful. You told me that the most important things you learned was when things were the worst. So I am, I mean, talk about these are some bangers here happening and one after another. What did we learn?
Dawn: You know, some people would take that as a life lesson, never to trust people. But that's not how I roll. What did I learn?
Lia: Yes. Yes. I'm so happy you said that. Yes, girl. Yes.
Dawn: Oh, we’re gonna be best friends. You know this, right? Like, I think the biggest thing that I learned was that I didn't need, I felt like I needed them for a while. Like to continue to do these things. And then what I realized and the lesson that I keep teaching myself in different ways is that, you know, I am enough. I can do it.
Lia: Yes.
Dawn: And, and I should do it because I'm really freaking good at it.
Lia: Damn, Skippy.
Dawn: Yeah. Anyways, fast forward. I took a job at the college and I was going to leave them and all this other stuff happened. The universe was taking care of me.
Lia: There we go.
Dawn: What I ended up doing was I ended up just kicking them out, kicking them to the curb, letting them leave with the truck that they had. And that was it.
Lia: Yes. Good for you.
Dawn: Yeah, it was worse than just the money that was being stolen all those years. There was some revenue Canada debt upwards of $100,000.
Lia: Oh.
Dawn: That I was stuck with and on the hook. So I was like, What do you do? Okay, so then I need to sit down, I need to assess, I need to make a decision. He had a non-compete and he said, “What does that mean?” “That means you get the fuck out of town.”
Lia: I love it.
Dawn: I think of myself as pretty much a saint until you get to that point. And that's years like. You got to remember, this is a year and a half, me knowing he's stealing from me.
Lia: Right, Right.
Dawn: So then my decision was I had to decide what I was going to do. So I took the job at the college because I needed the stability. And then I, and so I gave myself a deadline. I said, You're going to work here. It's two years before you're invested in your pension and you got it. You have to work at this job for two years. And then I said, and then I had to keep the company because I have to pay off this debt. So I did both.
Lia: Amazing.
Dawn: Yeah. So then and then like I had that debt paid off within a year.
Lia: Oh, wow.
Dawn: Uh huh.
Lia: Slam dunk. How do you have this energy.
Dawn: Well then I crashed.
Lia: Oh, then okay. Okay.
Dawn: I crashed. I crashed for a while. And so the guy that I had trained to be my manager, he kind of took over and I crashed and I disconnected quite a bit from the business for quite, quite a few years, actually, until just recently.
Lia: Oh, you are human. Okay. I was like, whoa. I mean, half Terminator. Like, what's going on? Because and I can, I can resonate. I know what that is. You just, you had to step forward to, to accomplish, to tackle, to make things happen. But we are human. And then after a point, you can only push yourself so far.
Dawn: Yeah. You really need to just remember you can't pour from an empty cup.
Lia: Yes.
Dawn: You need to fill it from somewhere. And you know that that year and a half or so was, it was hard. I had, I had auditors six times.
Lia: Oh yeah. Yeah.
Dawn: Because they thought it was me that was stealing this money.
Lia: Of course. Of course you did.
Dawn: And I told them flat out, like I told them, I didn't know about it. And of course they just think you're and I'm an actress. And so I had all these audits. I had them auditing my books in Calgary at my accountants and, you know, over the phone and sending documentation. And I was audited personally. And then it wasn't until finally they actually sent one of their agents to my house and she came and she did a full audit of all my books. And she just really knew then and saw me that I'm not hiding things. I'm not some, you know, And then and then I was human. They kind of went away after that and I paid it off, beast mode.
Lia: Right? Beast mode. Hey, I've been there. I get it. I've been there.
Dawn: Yeah. So the moral of the story is, when we're in those hard spots that feel so bad, the great part about it is, is if we're looking for it and we're feeding ourselves, if we feed ourselves the right ways, we're going to see growth.
Lia: Right. And think the hardest part is to figure out how to feed yourself after something like that. People who don't have that mindset, who grew up in different environments or have certain self beliefs, right? It's really hard to identify, how do I feed myself in a healthy way so that I'm looking at this horrible thing that happened to me, but, why is it the best thing that happened to me?
Dawn: Right. And when you're in the middle of it, there's no fault if you can't see that.
Lia: Right.
Dawn: At some point, you have to make a choice on where you're going to go. And we all know people who choose to live in that. And then we know people who have taken that place and grown and that's something different and chose to move on. You know, like I remember hearing often, oh, well, you know, her mom was you know, of course she turned out the way because her the way she grew up. And I'm like, well, at some point, like, it's time to figure it out and then make your own path. And so that's kind of the same thing, right? Like you get to, you get to make a choice. Isn't that the great part about life?
Lia: You hit the nail on the head. It comes down to choice. Being as though you live your best life, I think that you would be ideal to let other women know if they're interested in trade careers and construction careers, and being a leader in this field, what would you recommend? What would your advice be?
Dawn: First of all, when you need it, find someone who can be that mentor. And when you're in a place that you can be the mentor, then do it the best. Be the one that you wish you had.
Lia: Oh, yes.
Dawn: Be in alignment or better than the one that, you know that resonated the most with you. And so I have all these moments and I have this whole photo album in my phone. That's all, it's called “Why I Work Here.” And it's not just work. It's like about, you know, all those things that fill my bucket. So I guess the other part is appreciation, is when someone does something kind, generous, thoughtful, or maybe it seems like something super insignificant, tell them thank you.
Lia: Gratitude.
Dawn: Because that's what fills my bucket. Because I take pictures of it and I save it. And then if I'm feeling low because I'm human, right, I open, I literally open up this album and I'm like, Why would I ever feel bad for myself when this is what I get to do with my life?
Lia: I think you're giving really tangible, skillful things that people can actually take action, that's so valuable, Dawn. That's so it's priceless because you can tell someone, have a positive attitude. It's a choice. If you've never done that your whole life or you've been ingrained in toxic environment or bad habits. What you're describing gives me something I can tangibly, I can literally create this book that you're describing. I can write down, “Why do I love working here?” I can appreciate my wins no matter how small, and make gratitude and record it. Like, that's fantastic. Yes, I love it. It's not like we haven't had enough gems today. I mean, magic all around. But I'm going to make one more request of you. One more request?
Dawn: Yeah.
Lia: I love the analogy. What tool is in your tool belt?
Dawn: Willingness to learn. You don't have to be, you don't have to know everything. You don't have to be the strongest person on the crew. You don't have to be the fastest, most efficient. But, it helps.
Lia: Right? Right. Of course. Doesn't hurt.
Dawn: You know what my number one is? Being a team player. I'm a natural born leader.
Lia: Oh, I love you. I love it. I love it. Secretly, I've been waiting for someone to to give me that as a tool, a team player and, yeah, Dawn, Of course you're the one. You're the one to do it.
Dawn: I'm a natural born leader. I'm born into this. Well, I'm the oldest of five girls. I grew up in a single parent home. You know, everywhere I go, like I ended up, I joined a new volleyball team. I'm the team captain within a year. And then the next year, I'm on the executive committee. And then, you know, in the classroom, it's natural. And I've been foreman and assistant business manager so continuously and different types of various leadership roles, business owner. That being said, I can go on to any group, any team and fall into place and find my role. You know, when I joined the fire hall is a great way, great one because here I am coming in. I'm not a leader there. I'm claustrophobic. I couldn't I couldn't wear the mask at first. So just it took me a long time to figure it out. Actually, the first time we ever did it, it was funny because I went into a burning building.
Lia: You conquered your fear?
Dawn: Yeah, I did. Of course.
Lia: You're amazing. Yeah, I did. Of course. What are you, crazy? I love it. I love.
Dawn: It. I knew it was training and I had to put this mask on, and I'm like, you're just going to do it on. And then I went in and then they closed the door behind me and the building is burning and it is hot. And I'm like, “You just got to do it.” Went in with a fire hose and then came out and I was like, “Yeah, just so you know, I'm claustrophobic.” They're like, Oh.
Lia: That was terrifying. But I made myself do it.
Dawn: They’re like, “Well, you don't have a choice. You're here now.” Yeah, I'm also an adrenaline junkie. Well.
Lia: I can't tell.
Dawn: So, you know, being that team player. So part of being a team player is, you know, even though I'm that, I am a natural born leader and I do fall into that role often is remembering, you know, when I'm in a different environment, I'm 100% okay to fall into place, know my role. And you always contribute, right?
Lia: Yeah.
Dawn: You know, like so you're the best thing you can have in your toolbelt is to be a team player and and always be willing to help all your other teammates because everybody does better when you work together or just contributing. So that would be my number one.
Lia: Call me crazy, but I think you're a great leader and keep finding yourself in leader roles because of what a team player you are.
Dawn: Yes, 100%, 100%.
Lia: Dawn, this has been amazing. You are an awesome sauce. I love it. I love it. I love it. Thank you so much for being here and speaking with me. I really appreciate it. This is so great. Oh, I love your, the workbook thing. The like, “Why do I love working here?”
Dawn: Isn't that great?
Lia: So fucking great. Oh, my God. Do you know how many people you're, like, literally going to transform their life with that?
Dawn: Oh, seriously?
Lia: I'm telling you. I'm telling you. I know. I know. I come from a place where I was the person that said there is no choice. I was the person that felt like I was a victim, like I had no control. I grew up in an environment I didn't know any better. I didn't know any different. And when I started to come across people like you who gave me tangible tools, they didn't just say, you know, “be positive.” I didn't know what “be positive: looked like. Okay. I didn't even know how to evoke that within me because my entire decades of being this Eeyore for no other way of knowing how to be, and when you give priceless tools like that to people where they can actually take action in their life and do things to create those moments within them. Oh girl, like I said, it's so easy to say it's a choice and be positive and you know, just do it. But the truth is, if you've never had role models like that, if you've never seen that before and you don't know how, you need tools.
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