Lia: Welcome to the Sparky Life podcast. I'm your host, Lia Lamela. Here we discuss women in the trades and how to construct your career.
Coralee, thank you so much for being here with me.
Coralee: I'm really happy to be here.
Lia: Yeah. I want to introduce you to everyone. Coralee is a business consultant for women in construction, owner of Thrive HQ, and author of the book, “Hiring Secrets for Trades and Construction”. She has over two decades of experience in the construction industry. So with all of your experience, what would you say is the number one thing you've noticed about the field?
Coralee: You know, over 25 years ago, when I was first an employee, I had a really good employer. And when I went to become an employer, I took a lot of that information and learning that I took as being an employee to apply to my business. And I really went on a mission to be a good employer, because I think that that is where the construction industry on a big scale is failing. And I think that if we could fix that part of it, it would really fix a whole lot that's happening with it right now, especially on the skilled labor front. I think that if we just had a better reputation for being better employers, we would have a much easier job of actually attracting people into the industry.
Lia: Is this the reason you feel there is such a deficit of skilled tradeswomen and men?
Coralee: I think that's just one part of it. But I think a significant one in the way that if we fix that reputation that we have, employers are still very traditional, in their thoughts about how a business runs. And so yes, it is, it is a significant issue. However, I think there's just a lot of things like, you know, for women, for example, bringing women into the industry, we still don't see enough women doing it. So when you don't see somebody like you, then you have a hard time picturing yourself doing it. If people don't know the, the breadth of opportunity that lies in the construction industry, there's almost anything that you can do. Like if you have an interest in something, I bet you it applies in the construction industry somewhere, because there's so much that you can do here. Like there's just so much within the trades that you can do. So I think that the lack of understanding of all the opportunity that's available here is also something that keeps people away, like they just, they just don't see what's possible here. And then what they do see is like dirty construction sites, or, you know, that kind of thing. So if you take all these pieces of the puzzle, I think that there is like a big overhaul that we have to do on the industry to have people really understand the potential that exists here for a really fulfilling career.
Lia: Yes, and particularly, I think that if more women got involved in construction, that would be incredible, because every woman I've spoken to in the construction field tells me that it was life changing, they love it, they're doing things they never thought they could do before, it took them down such a successful path. I'm astonished that in 2023, we still have such low representation in the construction fields. I think having women like you is important, because in these construction careers, a lot of the guys you know there, it's based off of apprenticeship, right, mentors, and they take the guys under their wing, and they kind of show them the way but a lot of the time for the females, the guys are afraid to be too close or they're unsure. And so they tend to not mentor you the same way. So if there were more females like you involved, I think that it would be such a huge benefit.
Coralee: I agree for sure. Like I think mentoring is a really big part of it. And we don't necessarily have that mentoring or the acceptance. We are building our world like we are contributing significantly to our existence, our infrastructure, like if you think about all the things that couldn't happen, without trades and construction.
Lia: Debunking some of the myths involved in the construction fields, right? Yes, there's a lot of that.
Coralee: I agree. I agree.
Lia: What do you think is one of the big ones that you hear a lot or that you've heard others say when they talk about construction?
Coralee: Even just the other day somebody to ask why do we not have more women in the industry? And I was really surprised at the number of people who still say they're not strong enough.
Lia: Wow.
Coralee: Yes. Because reality is, you know, there's more than one way to do a task and you can do brute force. Or maybe you could do it in a way that's you know, healthier for your body or something that is sustainable. Like there's so many other ways to do something. It just doesn't come down to just mass muscles and being strong. So I think that that is a big one still, like especially for bringing women into the industry. You don't have to be a man or male-esque to do the job like, we need female skills, we need those in the industry. They're so under represented and really necessary. I think to deliver a successful project, I think we would do so much better if we had more female influence. So I think that is one that is right at the top of the list that you know, construction is still for men. And I just, I just don't, it's just not true.
Lia: Yes, especially nowadays, we have all this new technology and tools, which have eliminated a lot of originally required brute force. Typically, the right tool will do the job. Everything in construction is really mathematics and physics. So using your mind to figure out how to move something heavy from point A to point B, is generally the way to go.
Coralee: To be able to do it more than once or twice, ever.
Lia: The old timers always complain that their bodies have like, broken down and fallen apart. Also, when you're forced to come up with problem solving, like figuring out other ways, because you're not capable of just brute force, that leads to more efficient, more effective ways of doing the job because you're constantly figuring out other paths. So…
Coralee: Yeah, well, I know that one of our employees was chronically injured, because he would just lift everything because he was big and strong enough to say, No, you we have tools, like you could use like a dolly, for example, to move that piece of equipment, you don't just have to lift it up on your own and relocate it, let's just be smarter about the way we work.
Lia: It comes down to the culture, right? You know, they have that old school culture where they don't ask for help. And they're “guys-guys”, and they can pick it up and carry it. And, you know, if they're, if they need help, they're somehow weak.
Coralee: Yes.
Lia: Men are inherently physically stronger than women. It's just basic biology. But the value that women bring to the field, the tools that we have, and the biggest invest tool right here, right, the mind. That makes us perfect for the construction world. And you could argue that one of the reasons why it's so archaic and failing in a lot of aspects as opposed to other industries, is because more women haven't been involved, and having that masculine and feminine energy is really beautiful and important for growth.
Coralee: I absolutely agree. Absolutely.
Lia: So I am very excited about your book. Can you please tell us more about it?
Coralee: It's called “Hiring Secrets for Construction and Trades”. And the reason I wrote this book was because, you know, obviously, because of the labor shortage, but also exactly this, I was a business owner in the industry, and I did my business differently, I put my people first. And basically what this book is, is like how to be a good leader, how to create a business that people want to come work for, to how to find people how to hire them, and how to build your business to retain them. So you actually have loyal employees. Because the reality is in this environment that we have right now, in the industry, people are not going to stay with employers that don't treat them properly. They don't have to, they have a lot of options. And the people who are doing it right, who are setting up their businesses properly, to put their people first as opposed to profits first, those are the businesses that are going to do well and are going to be able to keep their people and actually grow. Because when you have a constant turnover in your business, you can't possibly grow, you're spending too much time doing the bottom of the line training just to get people in, and then they leave.
Lia: And this is the time right now, this is this is the moment where you can really build a successful construction career. Because there's such a deficit, talk about being a big fish in a small pond. And if people utilize your book with your experience and background, to be the first to really implement it, because, I've done the research, there are soft skills out there for the construction world. But quite frankly, the programs that they have are just, much like them, archaic. It's not, it's not what it is. It doesn't know how to relate when you have that background of being in the field for as long as you have, you know how to communicate because there is a culture.
Coralee: Oh, absolutely.
Lia: You know, yes, if someone can't hear your message, they're not going to take action in the way that you're going to try to guide.
Coralee: You know, that comes down to relationship, and if they don't hear your message, chances are they don't value or don't feel safe or don't trust the relationship. Like it needs to be about the relationship with your people. And about good leadership, good leadership starts at the top, you can hire good leaders, but if you're not a good leader yourself, then it doesn't trickle down the same way and you really, it's going to be difficult for you to hold your business together.
Lia: 100% 100%. Now that being said, how do you feel about unions? Because, when you have your own company, right, you have this great ability to create your own culture. And unions were originally made for the workers to give them a voice. And unfortunately, a lot of unions have transformed into big business, they don't really represent the workers the way that they were originally intended. It's an empirical setup, bureaucracy setup. So how could you utilize these strengths in construction companies that are part of unions?
Coralee: So I'll preface this by saying I do not have any experience with unions myself, like I've never been part of a union. And I've never, like projects that we worked on, were never unionized, like because we weren't a union company. We're a private. I'll start with saying that. But from my understanding of what, because I've heard a lot of really positive things, especially from women, on unions, and unions taking care of them. I know that there's a lot of positive things about the union. However, on a corporate level, like the actual employers of the, of the employees, I think there's a disconnect between, you know, who's doing the leadership at the top and what their best interest is, versus and, you know, sort of that management position versus the actual employees. And I think that, you know, I don't know the extent to which the unions actually taking care of the people, because I think that that's what it comes down to is that it needs to be the union, doing those leadership things, taking care of and representing the people as opposed to necessarily expecting that at that management and ownership level, that they would be doing it at that level. I think it's necessary and required. But I think it's probably less likely to happen that way because I think the ownership would expect that the union is taking care of the people, and that's not necessarily their job.
Lia: Yes, yes. The way that that’s set up, construction companies that are involved in unions, basically consider the union to be taking care of the employee. It can set up a real disconnect. Now, some unions and construction companies work their partnership beautifully. It's unfortunate that most don't; if you just feel like you're a number and easily disposable, how much are you really going to invest in an employee/employer relationship like that?
Coralee: Again, like you said, it's, there's no loyalty to a particular employer necessarily, for those reasons that you spoke of.
Lia: There are pros and cons to everything. The unions more often provide great benefits, pensions and higher salaries. However, when there is a clear disconnect between the union and the construction company, you will see a lot of complacency. I have seen people say any union they weren't really happy with or connected to just because they felt it was the lesser of two evils. Mainly in the U.S., to find a construction company in a private sector that has a wage compatible to the unions consider safety a priority and great benefits. That's like finding a unicorn.
Coralee: Well, not if I have anything to say about it's why I wrote a book, that's why I'm doing what I'm doing. Because that's what I, that's where I want to see the change happen. Like that's, that's where it needs to happen. I mean, that that's where we need to step up as employers and take care of our people value them. It shocks me how people don't understand that their employees, especially in this climate, are their number one asset. And they just don't treat them that way.
Lia: Yes, I would love to say that; I am all for that.
Coralee: If you don't treat your people, right, they'll always default to money, well just go to this other place, because we're going to pay me more, right? You know, they want to be valued. They want to be contributing, they want to be growing, like all of those things. When we had our business before we sold it, our theory was always to pay as much as we could, we always wanted to, you know, pay as high as we could. We wanted to be proactive and giving raises and acknowledge and appreciate where people were at. We made sure we still had a culture that was you know, understood and appreciated and created career paths and all of the things for our people. When you put all of those things together, then you know, you're an employer that's worth working for. And people want to stay. We had long term employees many, many years. But it's just not, like you said, it's not that common, unfortunately.
Lia: But you're going to change that.
Coralee: If I have anything to say about it.
Lia: We're going to change that! What would you say is something that you're most proud of?
Coralee: I think well, like when we started our business, for example, and where we ended up, I think there were some messy, messy years. Like there were some years that were just like, I cannot believe this.
Lia: So, growing pains.
Coralee: Yeah. Oh, yeah. Unbelievable. And I think anybody who owns a construction or trades business that, you know, had the skill and thought they would start their own business because, why not? They have the skill and they could do this for themselves. I think everybody who's done that went through the same thing or is going to go through the same thing that we did, which is, you get to a certain point in your growth, and you can no longer manage it without the proper systems and processes in place. And so we got to that point, it was probably about like eight to 10 employees or something like that, where I was just like, Okay, I can't keep the balls in the air anymore. Like it was just like, Ah, it's a real mess. It was in the early days where I didn't even know that business coaches existed. So when I found out the business coaches existed, and I got help. And that was kind of the first step to actually be able to control our business, instead of it controlling our complete life; like, and to be completely transparent. By the time we were put in a position to sell our business, it felt so much better, like just, you know, just having some processes and systems in place where things were a little bit more predictable.
Lia: And that's what sparked you to become a coach?
Coralee: Well, it was, yeah, after we sold our business, and I was trying to figure out what I was going to do next. I had some really horrible experiences in being a business owner in the industry. And I just, it just wasn't necessary, because I just didn't know what I didn't know. Now I know. And I want to share that with other people, because I just don't want them to have to find out the hard way or the hard way, if I can lighten that load and lighten that burden for other people, that's exactly what I want to do. Like, just learn new lessons, don't learn, don't learn the ones I had to learn the hard way, also the hard way. So.
Lia: Right, right. Right. So we talked about how we think women would contribute to the field, what do you think that women characteristics are that support the construction careers?
Coralee: Well, I think definitely their attention to detail. I think that that's, that's a huge one.
Lia: Totally.
Coralee: I don't know how many times I would be on site. And I, you know, when I was on site back in my early days, and I would see women on site, their work was a lot cleaner, it was a lot neater, it was just pleasant to look at. So that attention to detail. But it's also things like communication, relationship building, because these are things that are necessary, you know, on site, between different trades, different companies, whatever it happens to be, even within your own company, you need to be able to communicate and build relationships, everything is relationships. And when you can be an effective builder of relationships and communication, you know, those two things going together, I think the chances of having a successful project are much greater.
Lia: Yes, definitely. Definitely. The reason I wanted to ask you about that is because you always hear the same things for construction, like brute strength and problem solving. But they're not necessarily like feminine traits, typically. And there are many feminine traits that come into play. It's good to bring it to light because women who don't see other women, they can't see themselves. So by talking about these things, hopefully we'll get people curious.
Coralee: That'd be nice. It's a good place to start.
Lia: Right. Right, just to be curious, open minded to check it out. And it's amazing, then how far down the rabbit hole you can go just by peeking around the corner.
Coralee: Oh, yes. Yeah, there's so many resources and so many things to explore for sure.
Lia: You have a lot of programs that you offer. Somebody who is brand new, they just opened their construction business, what would you recommend the program that would be right for them?
Coralee: Usually, it's working one on one because I can kind of meet them where they're at. One of the things I think that people don't even consider doing, especially when they're just doing something on their own, is putting processes in place and documenting processes like, Well, I'm just one person, I know how I do it. Yeah, that may be the case. But when you're ready to bring on somebody else, if you already have something in place that, you know, they can learn from, it's going to reduce your your time spent on that training, right from the beginning, just those simple things, like while you have the time early on, just think about putting some processes and systems in place, so that you're not duplicating your work, so you can you know, start just simplifying even your own days as opposed to you know, doing the same thing the first time every single time, that's, I think the most painful thing to see. So you know, when you're sending a quote, it's just like, I'm just gonna do a quote and then you just do the exact same thing and you don't have a template for it or a starting point and it's painful.
Lia: You bring up an excellent point! Isn't one of the true representations of a successful business is for it to operate when you are no longer there? Like, setting up things so that you can walk away and the thing is eating and breathing on its own, right?
Coralee: There's this saying that says, your systems run your business and your people run your systems. I love that. Yes, systems, processes, documented.
Lia: Yeah, that's a beautiful combination of setting your people up your business up to be self sufficient, but at the same time you have such a high respect for them because they are that system. So that's a very healthy way. When I think about that on like a mental health level, it's like a very healthy business, like a high functioning business, because you have this respect and admiration for the people running it, your system. But you're not having them disconnected to the point where they're coming up with their own little way of doing things. So that if, that part of the system moves or can no longer continue, that the whole thing shuts down, which affects everyone in that system.
Coralee: Yeah. Well, the other thing is when somebody is solely responsible for the work, they also feel the pressure. So if they're feeling sick, and they're like, oh, they feel guilty, because they know that they're the only one that can do this thing, and they have, that thing has to get done today. And I need to go in, even though I'm sick, like that does, just doesn't do anybody any good to have everybody sort of operating in their own heads.
Lia: Yes, yes, definitely. Coralee, I like to ask everybody, with everything that you've learned and all of your experiences in your life. What's in your tool belt? What do you take with you every single day?
Coralee: Mindset. I have this little thing right on my wall that says, “Mindset is Everything”.
Lia: Yes!
Coralee: I truly, truly believe that everything starts in your mind. And no matter how you're feeling, what you're thinking, what you're doing, you can change it if you're aware and you have the right mindset. And I think that anything is possible, anything is possible. And that's a huge part of what I do with my people, is work on mindset, because there's a lot of fear and lack of confidence. Imposter syndrome is huge, especially for women in construction. Mindset is the tool that I carry with me everywhere I go for everything I do and always refer back to because it's the starting point.
Lia: I love it. I love it. I'm on board with that. Thank you so much for being here with us.
Coralee: Well, thank you. I appreciate you having me.
Lia: Can you tell everyone where they can find you?
Coralee: Sure. Coralee Beatty is pretty much on all platforms. It's one of one, so I am pretty easy to find.
Lia: Wonderful. Thank you so much.
Coralee: I really appreciate you having me here.
Lia: I enjoyed speaking with Coralee. She brings up the importance of mindset. If we peel that back, what is the foundation of a healthy mindset? In Carol Dweck’s book, Mindset, she talks about the advantages of a growth mindset, as opposed to what she identifies as a fixed mindset. The premise starts with the understanding of self introspection. Why do you do the things you do? Understanding self is the underpinning in beginning to build a world you wish to live in. What world will you build?
Thank you for joining us. If you felt a spark in today's episode, I invite you to write a review. I'd love to hear what lit you up. Take what resonates with you. And if you'd like to hear more of the Sparky Life, please subscribe, like, follow and share. Until next time, create the sparks in your life.