How to Assert Yourself In The Construction Industry?

Welcome to the Sparky life podcast. I'm your host, Lia Lamela. Here we discuss women in the trades and how to construct your career. I'd like to welcome Nancy Wisner not known to her friends as super Nancy. She's a superintendent at Vertec. And in this leadership role, Nancy oversees the construction team, managing supervising ensuring compliance, as well as guaranteeing availability of materials and equipment. Nancy serves as a liaison between the construction team and the client. Thank you so much for being here. Nancy, when we first spoke, I knew you were a leader, just by the way you presented yourself as a superintendent, what are your biggest challenges?

One of my biggest challenge is to be confident in my decisions, you have to make a lot of decisions on the fly. And some of these things on the job site, I have subs come up to me, and they'll come up and present me with a problem that I have no idea how to solve. And I'll have to come up with a decision right then and there. And I need to be confident in that so that the job can continue going on. And I have to be able to sleep that night. And I have to be able to eat breakfast the next morning and enjoy my weekend and know that I made the right decision.

Well, you seem very confident to me, one of the things that I loved that you told me is when you were applying to this job, can you tell us all that story that you told me?
Yeah, of course. Well, the shuttle contracting company I was working for this for the second company I was working for there was a coveted company that is vertex where I'm at now. And everybody said, you have to know somebody that's there, you have to be grandfathered. And you have to, it's really hard to get in there. And so I went and I applied, I said, you know, how hard can it be? Because it's kind of, you know, tried out. So I went in, and I applied and I had an interview within a couple of days. And then when I showed up for my interview, I told them, I said, if I'm not a superintendent, within six months of my application, or my start date, then I'm gonna go ahead and find another company. And I would say about three or four months later, I was superintendent of my first store. So that was pretty cool.

Bad ass that is bad ass that exudes confidence. It's really a pleasure to see women like you in leadership roles. Nancy, what would you tell the ladies, give them advice on how to get themselves in a leadership role?

I mean, if you see the opportunity, you really just got to take it, you got to ask for it. You say what does it take for me to become a manager? What does it take for me to become an assistant manager? What does it take for me to become a foreman, you need to start asking those questions. Because then the people know, oh, wait, I think she might really want this, I've never really had a guy come up and ask me this 100 times, and then actually do what I tell them to do. And the next thing you know, they're saying, hey, you know, this position is going to open up if you want to go ahead and apply for that or interview for it. Next thing, you know, your manager, your foreman, your whatever you really want to be is because you just kept pushing on and on and on.

That's awesome. And you can totally tell that that's your approach. And it's obvious that that's what works, you need to definitely ask for it you need because if you're not asking for it, if you're not saying I deserve this, I want this, nobody else is gonna give it to you.

Well, and it's even more fun when you when you demand it. I like that.
I had a manager of a mechanic shop that I was working at. And right in front of the district manager, I told him to his face the store manager, I said, I'm coming for your spot. I'm gonna take your spot, man. And the district manager was like, Oh, my goodness, this girl is she's serious. And then I would say about a year later, if not a little bit less. I was a manager of that automotive store and they actually moved him to a different location. He's got to ask for you got to ask the universe for it. You gotta ask whatever your deity you got to just ask yourself for it. And you got to allow yourself permission to become that person. Because if you don't think that you deserve it, if you don't think if you can't see yourself in that position, you're never gonna get there.
Yes, yes. Oh, that's so kick ass. You know what, I think that really works in male dominated fields because they respect competition. Right? And they respect confidence. Yes. And I feel that women. I don't know about you, but the way I grew up, being competitive wasn't pushed. I was told to be nice. Nice. Be calm, be nice. And I think when you have that competitive edge, that that definitely helps in male dominated fields for sure.

Yeah, oh, definitely. I just treat them how I want to be treated. I want to be treated with respect. I want them to be honest with me. I want them to work as hard as they can. Because I'm gonna give them all three of those things.

So you work as a team?

100% It's so important.

What would you say their common myths are about construction fields or construction careers?

A common myth? I think one really big common myth is that women hate their jobs in the industry. I haven't met. I don't. I mean, if you hate your job, and you're a woman in the industry, you're not going to make it that long. So everybody that I've met in the industry that takes it seriously, they all love their jobs. And I mean, it's, that's one big myth. I hear people ask me well, I mean, isn't it hard and don't you hate your job? And it's like, that's why I love my job. It's hard. It's like, it's
why would you want something easy?

Yeah, and especially you as an electrician, you have to use your brain every single day. I mean, you guys, I mean, I'm sorry. But you guys are probably the one of the smartest people on the job site. Because you are just your brain is so it's all the time you guys are all the time using this because if you make a mistake, it is life or death. Either it's your life or it's somebody else's life. It's, I don't know, electricity scares the heck out of me. I don't know how y'all. My grandpa worked in the Union forever. He was an electrician and is so disappointed. I'm not one but I don't even like flipping switches. Oh, my gosh, that scares the heck out of me.

Well, it is amazing how many trades use their minds. And I think that's a common myth that if you're in the trades, or in construction world, it's just brute strength. And that's not true at all. You must use your mind. Yeah. I also love Have you ever seen that meme where this is what they think I see at work all day. And it's these like guys that are jacked with these hot bots. And then it's like, this is what I really see. And it's about crack with this big fat guy.

100% Yes, definitely. Or it's some old guy that's you haven't. I would like to say one myth that I've been dispelling lately, I've been finding I stay at all these hotels all the time. And I go to restaurants all the time. And especially now I look at everything when I go into any building. And one big myth that I really want women to get out of their brain is that you have to be really good before you can join a trade. Or you have to be really good before you can apply for that company. Because if you look at the stuff that people get paid to do on a regular basis, I'm sure you've seen this. People run conduit, and it looks like garbage. They can't, and they got paid for that. And that's some guy that's been in the industry for 10 years, that gets paid way too much. And you're standing there running perfect pipe and bend in perfect pipe. And yet, you're nervous to go apply for that job that he's doing. I mean, it makes me mad to like, see these women go, I'm not good enough. I'm not good enough. It's like you can get good enough. The only way you're gonna get good enough is if you go and you just you apply and they hire you and then you burn the boats. Because once you burn the boats, there's no way off the island. And the only way to go is up and do good. And to not give up. You know, I'm saying because you're already there.

Yes. That's an excellent point. That's that's a really good point. A lot of women have mentioned that they didn't know what they were doing. And they didn't have enough confidence in themselves. It's like I didn't know how to use the power tool. When I started the trades. I didn't have a fucking clue. I was in medical esthetics for 10 years. Okay? We're talking Yeah, beauty industry, real different, like polar opposite worlds. So if I can go from the beauty industry, most definitely. And into the electrical field. Any woman out there, regardless of their background can step into it. As long as they're really interested in learning the trade. They're really passionate about the trade. And they want to learn they want to put everything that they have in it like you said they really wanting it. It's just like what you said really wanting it. Speaking of getting into the trades, how did you get into the trades, Nancy?

Well, when I was about 15 years old, my parents didn't they they put me into a class in high school that will teach you all changes and how to change your tire, how to change breaks and all that. 

Can your parents adopt me?

Funny about that sentence is that they actually I am adopted.

okay, I'm like, I mean, it's just like creep into your home be like mom. Call me sister. That would have been so cool. Because my sister didn't know anything about the trades and didn't want to know she was Abercrombie and Fitch and very, preppy, I love my sister, but she didn't know anything about how to get her hands dirty. And then here, I come along, and my parents didn't know what to do with me. I'm like, I'm gonna do your brakes. I'm gonna change these tires. I'm gonna dig a hole in the backyard for no reason. And that's why they enrolled me is because I wouldn't stop. I mean, I went and I saw a car show and I was like, wow, these engines are crazy. Like, they sound crazy. And I wouldn't shut up about it. And then they enrolled me in that I fell in love with it, and I ended up going to college for it. And I graduated from WyoTech in Laramie, Wyoming in 2009. And then I was just an automotive for about, I would say from 2009 until 2000, or 2018. And then I actually got out of it because I was tired of working around men. Ironically. I was so sick of working around these guys all day long. I was like, Yeah, I'm tired of it. And so then I went, and I became a dog walker. So I was just walking these dogs. And then one of my clients were the owners of the dogs. They needed some concrete moved out of a basement, and they were like, You look pretty strong. Do you want to come out and try to move some concrete with us? I'm like, Yeah, I'll make some money. And then I did, I guess I did well, and they offered me to move across the country and build Firehouse Subs. And then I moved across the country from Colorado to Georgia. And I've been moving up and down the East Coast ever since. And now I live in Charlotte, outside of Charlotte, North Carolina. And yeah, I mean, that's it's just a whirlwind, how it brought me here. It's like, I blinked and all of a sudden, here I am.

That's amazing. That's wonderful. What an adventure. You just saying, yes. You know, jumping on board, and then telling me from automotive to construction? Is it similar? What are the differences? What have you observed? I mean, you in both in both careers, you are in leadership positions.

They're very different. They're very, not I wouldn't say black and white, but the humor between the construction people and automotive people, the humor is extremely different. But the automotive guys were a little sensitive. Like I tried to go back to automotive, and they just wouldn't they couldn't, I don't know, they just was completely different. I don't know. And then construction, they're just very caveman. Love these guys. They're so smart. And I've met some amazing men, but I've just met more, more men that

that, I think they're, they're like man's men, like they're there. They're real masculine. They're guys guys, which is beautiful.

I wish I would have met more guys that were allowing themselves to feel emotions. Because these guys that they don't allow themselves to be angry. And so then they they just pin it all up. And the next thing you know, there's a fight on the job site, or they're quitting or they're throwing tools. And it's like, I wish that I wish they could just be more sensitive about it, automotive guys kind of talk to each other about it. Whereas these guys, they're kind of they wait until it boils up. And the next thing you know, they're fighting on the jobsite.

Actually, this has been going around recently about how men can't really the society has told them that they can't really open up and express their feelings. It's like frowned upon or looked down upon are as though they are so are weak if they do so. So I guess, coming from a construction background, they're very tough and hard and and they're very old school.

It's It's heartbreaking. I've had a couple of people that I've known throughout the years in both industries where they've actually committed suicide because they're, I mean, male suicide is. So I just feel like it's not talked about enough. It's important to as trades people to come together and really support each other. And if somebody is acting weird, you gotta ask them if they're okay. It doesn't matter if they're mean to you every single day, if they come in, and it's very obvious that they are upset, walk up to him and just ask him if it's okay, because it could literally save their lives. I mean, we're, like I said before, we're in this together, and it doesn't matter. I mean, we're, we're a team. And the trades are so hard because you're away from your family, 12 hours a day, 16 hours a day, or you're away from your family days, weeks, or months at a time. And then if they expect you to be okay, and everybody has their limit, and we all need to kind of just recognize when we're at that.

I'm so sorry to hear that. That's heartbreaking. One of the things that I love about the trades, I feel that we are a team, My crew, I think they're phenomenal. The men are, God forbid they ever hear this, but they're geniuses, their heads would get so big. I mean, they really are they're so bloody smart. And not only are they smart, but they're physically the strength and the endurance. It's like an athlete. Yeah, my, one of my mentors, he is just an incredible combination of mind and muscle. And it is like watching art to see these guys run conduit. It's incredible. The architecture, the symmetry, the geometry and the the strength. I really admire them, but don't tell them that would go right to their head. How do you feel about your team that you're currently with?

Yeah, so I primarily just have my subcontractors usually. So I'm, I'm really young on the superintendent career. I mean, I have my subs that I work with, I have my electricians and I have I mean, those guys are I have the Foreman's of those companies that I talked to, and then they have their teams. And I get along with those guys. Great. They are so funny. And I have never worked with these companies before. That's the good thing. All these all these job sites, we work with the same companies, but different people. But this one, both crews are brand new to me. And they are very cooperative. And I really enjoy when I can walk in like a pre con meeting, and the guys make eye contact with me. And they actually shake my hand because there are a few times where they don't know how to approach me. I wouldn't say they are they have a problem with me being the industry. I just don't think they know what to do. Yeah, because they, I mean, they know that take me seriously, because I make sure they take me seriously. There's so many times where I I will stand in their direct eyeline when they refuse to even look at me, they'll they'll tell me directions, and they'll tell it to somebody else, but be addressing me, and I will walk in front of that other person and stare right at that person and be like, just, I mean, look at me, you know what I mean? You need to respect me, I am here to work just like all these other guys. There's no difference between me and them, except for what's between my legs. I work harder than 90% of these guys on this job site. So don't treat me the way that you're treating me. I mean, if I've given them a reason, then I understand. But just because I'm a woman on the job site, that's that's not an excuse, you know. And so those types of people I actually am very aggressive about, I don't like to usually be too aggressive with like, being a woman in the industry. I'm just like I said, I'm just there. I'm just one of the guys pretty much. But there's people like that, that just blatantly disrespect women, because they gotta learn, man, we're coming. We're coming. We're figuring out that we're allowed to do this job. And we're good at it. And some of us are even better than the other like, than the guys that have been in it forever. We're coming, man. And so He better get on board or go ahead and jump ship. Because it's it's gonna happen regardless. What a day, what a day and age like a great time to live in right now. My mom was like, I think she was the first woman in the city of Denver to go and do stuff. And like the sewer. I mean, she was a city inspector. Wow. And yeah, and so when I was a kid, I saw her she was my role model in that way. Because she worked around all these men, she was so strong about it. And that was great seeing growing up, because then now that I'm in this position, I remember her talking about the boys club. And I remember her talking about this and that. And I'm, I am just completely ready to blow all of that out of the water and get that boys club just done because it's just, we're here to work. And we're all friends. And we're all a team. We're here to watch out for eachother. 

I love that, to watch out for each other. Any women who are interested in a career in construction, what would you recommend to them?

I would say one of the big things for me when I was in the beginning was union or non union, because it really just depends on where you want to go in the industry and how you want to feel while you're going throughout it. So the union can provide a lot of security, job security, they can provide a lot of knowledge, security is a big thing. Because when you're not working for a union, it's your very wintertime is pretty scary, because you don't know what's going to happen. I don't know if that goes over to union, you guys usually busy all year round.

There are times when work might slow down. But especially now there's such a great need for craftsmen and craftswomen. Work is plentiful. And if you're in a union apprenticeship program, you're guaranteed work for the five years you're in the program, the union apprenticeship programs, in this way, do a great job of setting you up for success by having you put into practice what you've been learning in classes.
I do have a question. When you said that they guarantee work for five years. Does that guarantee you a certain amount of hours a week as well?

Yes. But understand nothing is set in stone. You are highly likely in a union apprenticeship program to have 40 hours a week for five years of gainful employment. And union wages are typically 11.2% higher than non union. I think that's the percentage the last time I looked it up. 

Oh, yeah. follow the money. 

Thank you, Nancy, for spending this time with us today. Yeah, and that's I mean, it's great to be a part of this. I've always wanted to help people get to where they need to be and and I really appreciate you presenting this offer to me, and this is a great opportunity. Thank you so much.

No, no, thank you. Thank you for being here with us. It was so wonderful to hear your story. We appreciate you sharing your valuable experience and knowledge. Nancy has an amazing role model her mom and just like her mom Nancy understands it's about seeing opportunity, and not being afraid to ask questions. You have to discover what paths you need to take to achieve your career goals. And if you don't know, don't be afraid to ask. You have to allow yourself to become the person You want to be Nancy points out the only way to get good enough of doing air quotes good enough and reach our goals is just by doing. So get charged up and take action. I'd love to see you spark the inner ignition in you. Thank you for joining us. If you felt a spark in today's episode, I invite you to write a review. I'd love to hear what lit you up. Take what resonates with you. And if you'd like to hear more of the sparky life, please subscribe like, follow and share. Until next time, create sparks in your life.