Welcome to the Sparky life podcast with Lia lamela. I share with you my electrical journey experiences and insight through engaging banter with those I've met along the way. If you're interested in trade tales in industry fraught with excitement and risk, subscribe and be notified every Thursday, when trade sales continue.
I am so excited for today's guest. She is a soul sister in a way. Lindsay Reynolds has a podcast called she wears work boots. She is interested in women live trades and supporting women in the trades just as I am. So you can imagine how excited I was when I came across her podcast. And I am so grateful that I get to share her with you today.
Hey, hey, how's it going?
Good. I love the glasses. Hey, hey, look, snazzy. Thank you for having me, Lia. I'm
so excited.
So tell us I know, we spoke before but everybody doesn't know. And they need to know, how did you step into this? Why did you create, she wears workboats?
Well, it's kind of it's funny to think about now, because the seed was sort of planted about four years ago, when I stopped being employee and I started my own company. And I've worked, I worked in construction for my whole career, I went to school for civil engineering. And I found it through the Co Op program there that the actual engineering work wasn't really what I was into that I like the way that things are built. And I stepped onto a construction site on a co op term. And I was like, This is my home. And and the rest is history. So when I graduated, I worked for a general contractor and and just stayed in that vein, through my whole career. And about four years ago, I kind of always had this desire to start my own business. But four years ago, I took the leap. And one of the more interesting things that I wasn't expecting is that when I went out on my own, I suddenly felt this freedom to build my network with whoever I wanted. And I never really realized how restricted I had felt before and it was probably self imposed restrictions.
I felt at least accountable to my employer, let's put it that way. Like I felt like I was on a salary. So my time kind of belong to them. And I didn't need to justify who I was doing lunch with or, or whatever, because they were paying my salary. So it didn't need to benefit them in some way. And now, I get to just do lunch or have a conversation with whoever I want. And it doesn't even have to justify my business. Just because I like it because I like to and when I started doing that, I actually started connecting with and networking with more women than I had ever in my life before. And I again didn't realize that I was restricting myself in these relationships. But then when I was when I started building them, it opened things up for me in a way that I didn't realize I was missing before I started to feel validated when I was sharing and venting for kind of the first time I started to feel there were places where I could just relax for a few more minutes, even in professional settings. And those that validation, that friendship, that space where I felt supported, all of a sudden was building this courage in me. And this this disability to take risks and everything that I needed in my building my business. But it just like it cracked something open. And I was like, I haven't had this for like 15 years. And I felt like I only had it because I was suddenly working for myself. And I realized I was in this really special position. So I thought I need to go out and find all of these women, I need to meet them, I need to bring them into my network. And then I need to find some way of sharing that network with as many people as possible. So there's kind of that that was sort of the seeds of the podcast, to meet other women to hear about their careers, and to then put them out there for other people to sort of virtually meet other women who might be more isolated, to give them a piece of what I was experiencing in that support and that validation and that courage. So that was one of the main reasons why I started it and then it's kind of gotten its own life. Short story.
I don't think you actually realize how special you are. I don't Do you realize how important and inspiring you are? I just did a poll recently on many platforms with women in construction, asking them if they ever thought of being an entrepreneur owning their own business being their own boss. And you said something very important that I hear often people say, freedom. Everyone, almost number one answer I hear is, I want financial freedom. I want freedom. This is like happiness. But when I did this poll, I was heartbroken. Literally astonished. So many women, the poll had three categories. The first category was, do you want to start your own business? Hell, yes. Second, no, I want to be an employee. I like being an employee, or three. Yes, I want to start my own business. But I don't know where to start. And the No, I want to be an employee was number one. And the comments that women were giving was, how hard it would be, and how they don't want the responsibility. And the liability and it I am, I'm shocked, I was jaw dropped and my heart sunk. They don't believe in themselves. You You are you talking about the two sides of your mouth, you telling me you want financial freedom, you want freedom, you will only gain this by doing exactly what you did Lindsey, which is building your own business, being your own boss, you own your time. I can't understand how you can think that to your happiness is this freedom. But you're happy. Being an employee, that is not freedom, you are serving someone else, you are indebted to someone else. And you just said it yourself. When you said, I felt like my time wasn't my time, even on your lunch, which is your time, which I would argue you're benefiting your employee by advancing yourself and networking and improving yourself, your your well being your overall happiness and satisfaction by cultivating as we our tribe, like humans love their network and tribe. Right community. Yeah, I'm telling you, you're amazing, inspiring and special. And I wish to God, there was more women like you.
That is incredibly sweet. And, and I thank you, Leah, that's really, really gone. But the thing is, is that all of those comments that the women were making, they're not wrong. Like, we I think these things come up all the time in the interviews that I have on my podcast, and I know you hear it as well, that it's how do I how do I put this. So it's like, the women who go into trades in particular, find a new First they do this really hard work. And the women who are having the best experience are finding in overcoming these challenges, this incredible confidence, a passion of confidence. And the trades really do feed that and they I think they feed that in everybody agree is it is like the skills that you develop when you work in the trades are absolutely something to be proud of. And that's across the board, which is very cool to hear. But there's also this, there's so many things like this is a whole unpacking. So then I also hear this other side, in particular that women are drawn to the trade. Because the pay in the trade is something that they can actually live off of. And I hear it more than every other story. But it's at least every other story starts with I went down one career path. I thought this is what I want to do with my life, but it couldn't pay the bills, right? So then I looked at the trades, and the trades pays way, way better. So I went to it for the money. And then they find the competence and the passion and everything. And they stick around because now they have the money to live their life and to pay their bills. And they're competent, passionate and like in love with their career. But the challenge that's also across the board is is this this isolation space. And it's still a gap that we are working. I mean, I think both of us in our little side project have podcasts and all of the other relationships that we're building are trying to do is to feel this, this isolation to overcome yes or other women and help them find each other to to get past that isolation because it's so subtle. For some for others. It's really like in your face. And it is the one thing that for me, like I said before, once I I felt like I had this network of women and these friends EPS, and its support and validation, which is the opposite of isolation, right? running your own business. It's not necessarily for everyone, I understand that if we want to, you have to want it. And I really, really, really want it. But it does, it takes courage and it takes you have to feel supported, you have to feel like it's safe to fail. And when you when isolation is, is more dominant, even if it's subtle, that isolation, it is not conducive to failure, it's not conducive to part of the isolation is that like, you can't mess up and can't afford to, you know, make a mistake, you can't you have to be everything to everybody. Because because it because you're already alone. Yes, yes. Yes. It's so there's so many layers to it.
That makes so much sense. I'm so happy that you broke that down for me, because I think what was most upsetting is I couldn't understand where this was coming from me, I've always been a little bit of a rebel. And so I have this, you know, inside of me to want to be my own master to want to own my own business. I've had it ever since I was a little girl. I know what it's like to own and create two businesses, I had a medical esthetics, business and a fishing business. So I understand what that brings, and the reward that that brings and how that outweighs being an employee. But I could not wrap my head around. We're not talking like 50%. It was like 85% that wanted to remain an employee. And I was crushed. But when you break it down like that, and you explain about the isolation label, okay, that makes a lot of sense. It could be inside of them, they don't even know it's inside of them. Because was one of these important factors that you're bringing up, that gives me some relief.
And it's okay. Like, like, there's no reason why you have to go out and do something crazy, like start your own business or take these crazy risks to be satisfied and to be happy with your career like, like, there's some people that are just risk averse, or they just they find their simple habit. And honestly, there are some days where I look around, like, like, my husband is really great at being an employee. He killed work for his team, he'll be frustrated for a day that he just comes back and still, like, he's just he's made for it. And he's great. And it's a great space for him. And we're all very happy that he has this like a paycheck. And he's not taking any risks with his career. And that is very, makes our family very happy. But that my husband is a good employee and that his employer likes him. I am like you. I'm this like this energy of kind of free spirit. I'm just challenging everything. And for me, that is what what broke it for me is that I just kept. I had great managers. I had mentors, people that I loved. I had coworkers that I loved working with, yes, but I just couldn't, I was never satisfied in somebody else's system. Right. And I always I was always coming up against it. And I just thought, you know what, the only way to stop this pain of fighting against somebody else's system is to create my own. Right. And it's not easy, but I had to do it, because that's how I'm wired. But not everybody's wired that way.
I empathize with that. And I understand that. And it's important to have all different types of people. However, to have 85% of women in construction tell me they don't want to be their own boss. That's horrifying to me. Especially when, okay, we've been doing this a while so so maybe you can relate. When I speak to these women in construction, they tell you know, they tell me how it was life changing, empowering, all the same things that you you know, mentioned earlier. And then they tell me how they want leadership roles. They want to be a foreman, they want to stop having to prove themselves. They want to they know what they're capable of. Okay? They want to tackle the world and create and innovate. Beautiful, fantastic, I love it. And side note, economically, being in America, in American culture, I am very supportive and pro small business. I believe that the more entrepreneurs you have in your society, the healthier and the more elevated the society. So I want to see as many Americans out there, create a their own business, whatever that looks like, however, big or small, but be their own boss own own their life building their own world. So that being said, right, on one hand, you're telling me that you want to be a leader, and you're complaining, because it's so hard as a as a female, you know, that 1% In this in this field? And, you know, odds are stacked against you to, you know, be able to be a foreman and all this. Well, no, actually, I think the only one putting up the boundary is yourself. I don't I don't think there's anything stopping women in construction from being in leadership positions.
Yeah. And and I think that there is a difference between, there are similarities. And there's a difference between starting your own business like that's that that is a little bit, it's a little bit next level, because there is that risk of, you know, you may or may not make any money, you're getting grants. And there's, you're the owner, you are the owner, so, so being employed and having that a little that, that does take it down a notch. But I think what you were talking about that is that that breaks my heart as well, is the side of that response to your survey that indicates that these women lack courage. Yes, and and I don't mean that in the critics critical way. But in the like, this is a, this is a sad realization. And that's something that I think that we can change by empowering them and encouraging them. Because if because because the leadership roles still require that courage, it still requires that self competence, and it still requires the risk taking to to get there. And those are things that are also, I think, impacted by that feeling of isolation. But this is the other thing, you cannot be a leader, and a victim. So the very first thing, like nail on the head, your very first step towards leadership, is to set aside your victimhood. And ask and say whatever whatever situation you're in, the next thing that you need to ask yourself is, what am I going to do about it? So you might literally be the victim of something. That's true, what happens next? is entirely up to you. Yes. And that's the firt. That's what leaders do. And that's what everybody should do. But you can't it's it's it's mutually exclusive. Right? Not Be a leader and a victim.
Right. 100% 100%? That is excellent. Excellent. I think a lot of women who are in the construction field, don't see that. And that is such an important point. I really was devastated by the results, especially because of the comments. So it wasn't just like, No, I want to stay an employee, because I enjoy serving others, or I love being a part of an organization. These were the things that I were being told which I don't think again, I would have been so upset if these were some of the reasons I was hearing, because those are great reasons. Right. It was more of this belief that I couldn't handle the responsibility, this complacency. The threat of being sued. I mean, come on. Like that's very, very
American. Yes. Yes. Yeah, we don't have quite that maybe wouldn't quite come up in, in, in Canada in quite the same way. But there are still it is, it's a risk. It is like a risk of getting sued. But it's you have a better chance of getting hit by a car walking outside of your house, then getting sued as a business owner, especially because there's levels of owning your own business, right? People who do side work. Technically, that's their own business. Like it doesn't. It doesn't have to be this big, scary thing.
Our ministry of labor laws in Ontario, Canada, where I live, yes, put the site superintendent personally responsible for the safety of the people on site. So if there's an incident on site, and there is any sort of indication that the site superintendent was negligent, and by our laws, that site superintendent can be fined and go to jail.
Okay, so our laws are a little different in the sense that big corporations here right, we went from capitalism small business to monopolies real real fast. It's one of the reasons why our economy is struggling right now. Amongst others, but one of them. And here, it's not about your safety. Okay, all of our safety officers for the construction, they're not there for the worker, they're there for the company. And when something happens to the worker, it's their job to prove how it was the workers fault. And because the company is bigger and better and has more money and more lawyers, more often than not, even if the worker did nothing wrong to jeopardize themselves or was negligent in any way, they'll be blamed. So it's very rare, actually, for business owners, who have a substantial construction business to be sued or held liable. Can it happen? Yes. Do we have laws? I'm doing air quotes guys protecting protecting us safety OSHA, we do. But the truth is, the majority of the time the negligence is found with the worker and the responsibility is held by the worker, not the company, not the superintendent, not the lead, not the form in
which it sounds like it's less of a risk. Yes, it is. Your aim is to climb up the ladder. If you want to get away from risk, then you need to find some leadership skill. Yes, a little bit of ambition. Yeah, the ladder. Yeah, and find and find some lady friends. Yeah, gentlemen, out there, they're listening, find some lady friends. Better, they'll make you better at your job.
They totally do. I think I told you about Brenda Tackaberry. She's a gender bias specialist. And she's got all these great stats on companies that have more of a balance of female and male, and how those companies supersede in profit compared to other companies that have this huge marginal gap of more men than women. So it's, it's got the stats to prove it.
What some of the things that I'm seeing, just like anecdotally, in the with the women that I'm talking to, they are the ones that are truly, like, owning their femininity, or not. They mean, there's the little things right, where they talked about doing their nails and stuff and everything and, and that's really it's fun and light hearted and invalidating. But the the real, like meat and heart of it is the ways that these women are generous. femininity is a is it life giving generous energy. So I have interviewed women who struggled with their apprenticeship, apprenticeship. And it not not just because of being a woman, but because there's something wrong with the system. Yes, there is so right. So they'd be they get in the system. And they would come up against some obstacles that exist in the system, not gender related at all, just the system is not right, right. And they look at that. And they're like, You know what I'm driven, I want to get through my apprenticeship, I want to do my education, whatever it is that have and I'm being blocked by something. The first they're determined to work through it. And then when they've worked through it, they're determined that no one that comes after them. All the men and all the women that come after them, need to not have this obstacle. So they're not just going like, once I'm through, I'm good. They're going once I'm through this obstacle, like this door needs to be open so that everybody that comes after me just share in their successes and all the work they do, they're willing to and they and they even talk about it. They're like this isn't right for me. But this isn't right for anybody in my trade. Right, right. For my entire class, we need to fix this whole thing, right? We're showing up and like looking at their site and going like hold on a second. We have a safety issue here. I feel like somebody might be in danger. Yeah. If you talk about like some of the jobs that these women are doing, they're not just showing up sweeping the floors of a, of a construction site. They're like, working on turbines and with like, massive high voltage electrical panels, like we're talking about the most dangerous work that happens on construction site, and these women show up and they see a problem. And they're like, how could I not say something? Yes, yeah. And that's what feminine energy brings to our industry. These are not like, girly, wimpy thing. They're powerful. They are powerful, important things that balance out. That is what the industry is seeing. I think, when when these women are showing up. That's what I hear from their interviews. And that's what I see when I meet them on site. So yes,
I hear the same thing out, talk to about how special you are. And I want to walk back towards that because I think just like you said about isolation, the more women that hear women like you, how you started, how you built, they're gonna start to hopefully realize or have this aha moment, I can do it too. So, tell me what were some of the first steps in creating your business.
I'll start with, I realize, I haven't really talked about my business and what I do. And to be honest, I'm a little self conscious in this context, because one of the things that the podcast has become that I didn't totally anticipate is a lot about women in trades. And I'm like, I don't actually work on the tools in the community, you're still a part of it, you're just because you're not touching a tool doesn't mean you're not a part of the
awesome tools at home. I use all the tools in my own house, nobody should ever pay me to do any work for them.
I'm a project. So I'm a project manager by training, a little bit of estimating and stuff in there. And the business that I started, I just, I wanted to start a business. And I struggled because it was general contracting that I knew, but I also knew that it was extremely financially risky. Contractors often end up being the bottom of the line when it comes to being paid. So they fund projects, you have to be like high cash and all this kind of stuff. And I didn't have any of that. And I wasn't prepared to really put a lot of money into my business. But I realized that I love running construction projects, because I love helping other people to have great construction, a great experiences, I think the industry is amazing. And building things is fun. And I and I hear everybody who I know who doesn't work in the industry, you know, either complain about it, or feel intimidated by it, if they have an office renovation to do or they have some development or they're like, they they're seasoned developers, for example. And they're like, all the general contractor is gonna screw me over like cynical view of things, which they're not wrong. I'm like, I can help with that. Like, it doesn't have to be that way. Because there's certain things that you could do differently if you just understood what they were telling you when they were telling it to you. So I decided to start this business that was consulting, basically, it's like, it's a project management construction experience for hire people hire me to be there, an ascension of themselves, that actually knows how the construction project is going to go and how it works and can ask good questions and like, translate back to my clients as to what is actually happening on the site. What's really unavoidable and what is like, no, they're just trying to get, you know, they're just trying to pad their chain in order. Right? Right. So um, I honestly, I just jumped ship but I left my job and and then after I kind of got going people like, oh, well, did you like all that? So great. You started a business did you like find somebody that would like partner with and your first client or whatever, and they took you away? Oh, great idea. We have stayed employed until I had a client, that would have been good. I did not do that. What I did, honestly, is and I think that this is kind of good advice for anybody. Because I went out and I went I went into my network and I made friends. And I don't mean that in a like all like I found all the people who would like pat my back, I'll pat them like that not nonsense. It was just like I just found I found a business community that was really supportive, because my clients are businesses, not necessarily just the construction industry. I just started connecting and hanging out with people. And and I don't necessarily recommend doing this unless you have like, you should definitely have a client before I happened to be, you know, really fortunate that my husband was able to kind of keep us above water.
But it all ended up coming in this still stands today is that I network without judgment without that idea that I can go to lunch with anybody. Yes. I'm always open minded about what a relationship could present as far as a good opportunity or an interesting new venture or an all of my work has come from people who and then and then how can I help them? So it's like a really like karma kind of thing, where it's about it's about how can we help each other and being having reciprocal type relationships, but starting with them so if I'm going out there and I'm like, How can I help you? What do you have a I'm going on that, that I can be a part of who have I met that I can introduce you to just anything that I have to offer? And the more that I started doing that, the more that I've been able to build a network that of people that I know, they care about me, they ask how my how stuff was going, you know, they, they tried to make connections for me. And then opportunities have come through now the opportunities that I have had, they always start with troubled projects. So if I get a call from my network, it's usually like, Hey, I know a guy. He's got a problem. Problem Solver. And I think two things at the same time. One, I have no interest in getting involved in a project. That sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. And then and then a yes, that's actually exactly what I do. Let me know. And then I get involved in all sorts of fun. But, but that's how it, it ends up working. For me. It's not a super business intelligent, like I had a plan and a real structure. It's an I apologize, anybody that thought that this was going to be really great advice and like a self help 10 Step thing. I don't have that for you.
I love it. I know we've spoken about this before. You know how dorky I can be because we're in construction. I love using the metaphor. What tool is in your tool belt? What's something you've learned throughout your life, experience that you take with you every day that helps you achieve your goals?
That is a really good question. Besides my sheer stubbornness and determination, honestly, I think it would have to be and it's a tool. It's not something that I was born with, to be honest, but it's it's the kindness and generosity that I was talking about before. And and I absolutely had to learn it. I will be completely honest with you. I started out in my career as a 20 year old, like black and white, judgmental as a person. And I learned the hard way that pre-judging people and assuming that I already knew everything that they knew or assuming that they were stupider than they were, or more useless than they were, always came around and bit me in the ass.
And I have learned that if I can be a little bit patient with people, even with people who I'm really pretty sure are totally useless.
There's even if you know they're in that box.
There's always something that someone has to offer. And if I can find it within myself to be a little bit generous and a little bit more patient with them than I actually want to be, that everyone's almost every single time that person will will show that gem. And that's the kindness and the generosity and the patience that allows me to capitalize on it. And so that's my tool. It's something that I do intentionally. It does not come naturally, but it's where the magic happens.
You had to learn this skill and you understand that by not judging by. Giving grace. By. Being more empathetic.
It's the kindness and it's the. It's the patience. And it's a little bit more generosity that I naturally come by with other people that has allowed me to stick around long enough. Even those people who are maybe already decided that they are useless or would jump to that conclusion.
But everybody has something to offer. And if you stick around, if I have that patience to stick around long enough and look for it, then you get to capitalize on those gems, you know? And it could just be that one thing or two things. But usually it's more and if you, you know, if you can create that environment for another person, they'll give a lot to you. And then and then that adds to your own success, whatever it is that you're trying to accomplish. That has been my experience. And and so that's the tool. That's the tool.
I love it. I want to ask you, because that resonates with me on a personal level. I was the same way when I was 20, and I'd love to know. When did you discover to start looking at things differently? How did that light bulb go off?
It literally went off when I was in my 20s when I started to build up the the list of times because I hate this is a little fun fact about me.
Hate being wrong.
No, really? Oh, type A, I'd never guessed right. But you.
Been wrong. Like wrong about being, like. About being. If I'm going to be judgmental and I'm going to make a call on somebody, then they better fulfill my expectation event to be to be useless or to be right. Whatever it is. Right. If I've decided something about a person that's I'm not very flattering and they turn around and do something impressive or important, or they turn out to be incredibly, you know, useful or right in some way or kind like that would be the worst.
Right?
Then, then, then I feel pretty stupid. And that actually makes me wrong. And that happened enough in my 20s, especially because of the industry, especially because there's so many opportunities for challenge, there's so many opportunities for cynicism. Like negativity is not hard to find in construction. So if you want to jump on that train like it comes in every two minutes, like it's so easy and, and yeah.
Regularly, yeah.
So it's there. And I would, I would jump on that negativity train. I would like be like, oh yeah that's that you know they don't know what they're doing. You can't trust them with anything. And then, and then they would suddenly know what they were doing or you would be able to trust them with something. And it became important. Like those moments were always like these key moments, and they started to collect them over time. And it was that collection that started to go like, maybe I wasted a lot of time assuming that they were not good at their job or that they were not the person to talk to, or that they were going to screw this up. And if I didn't waste my time with that and all that negative energy, which just drags yourself down too, Right? Right. Maybe I would have seen that earlier and been able to capitalize on them as a team member or as a support to whatever solution needed or whatever. And it was just that building up of over time of me being wrong in my judgment about people that went, I need to think about this differently.
Your introspection is impressive. Very impressive. It's hard for people to assess, self assess. It's one of the most difficult things for us to do is to look in the mirror and. Honestly, authentically self-assess because perception is in the eye of the beholder. It's almost intrinsically difficult to. Ask yourself. Is the way I'm looking at this, the way it really is wonderful. I love it. All the juice, all the juice and good things. Now tell everyone where they can find she wears work boots.
Oh, well, yeah. So she works work boots has a place on Instagram we are at She wears WB. Pretty sure. Yes. And I am Lindsay Reynolds. I'm on LinkedIn. My company is called Hancock and McArthur so we are also on Instagram.
The company name was Hancock and McArthur Hancock and McArthur. I just want to hear you say Hancock again, Hancock and McArthur.
I know it's a fun name. I love.
It. I love it.
You'll love this, Leah.
I'll I'll leave you with this. The name comes from people ask me this from time to time when they're curious and interesting people. Olive Hancock and Marie McArthur were my grandmother's.
Oh, wow.
So it's it sounds like a bit of an old school, like white man, boring firm name, but it's actually a shout out to my matron age.
That's beautiful. And I want you to know, when I heard the name, I thought of hardcore, like badass. Like, that's the image that came into my mind. Also being as, um, a child. Hancock I'll never forget it. There has to.
Be a euphemism in every construction term out there. Yes.
Yes. I'm a fan of puns. All right, Lindsay, thank you so much. It was a pleasure, as usual. So wonderful. Stimulating, Fantastic and fun. Thanks, Lia. Till next time. Speaking with Lindsay is a blast. I love her outlook and desire to withhold judgment on others and I commend her for this.
As a identified recovering judge Judy, I would like to conduct myself more like Lindsay and look at others without bias and prejudgment. The stats say we pass judgment on someone within seven seconds of meeting them. Do you think we can break that statistic? I challenge you to look into this. It's pretty fascinating. How will you choose to see others? Thank you for joining us. If you felt a spark in today's episode, I invite you to write a review. I'd love to hear what lit you up. Take what resonates with you, and if you'd like to hear more of the Spark life, please subscribe like follow and share. Until next time, create the sparks in your life.