Welcome to spacing Out with BB and Jason this week covering Foundation season two, episode six, Why the Gods Made Wine.
Welcome to spacing Out.
I'm Bb and I'm Jason, and we are discussing the Apple TV sci fi series Foundation, one episode at a time. Spoiler free. We have not watched anything beyond this episode, so we can't spoil it.
Yeah.
In this episode, Salvor meets a young Mentallic and learns how Tellum rescues telepaths, but tensions rise when Tellum opposes a second Foundation and gives Gail an ultimatum choose between Harry and the Mentallics. Harry distrusts tell him, and after an argument, she secretly traps him in a title pool to drown while he experiences visions of his past on trantor Sarah upstage his brother Day during their public introduction,
unsettling him, while Constant and Polly arrive and are promptly arrested. Meanwhile, Hober locates the Spacer mothership and boards it, and Constant no, that's see. In the sentence.
Vibe check, did we like the episode overall?
It was all right. I like this one.
Yeah, I think this was a pretty solid episode. Honestly. Yeah, I was not expecting it to go into like this deep dive into Harry Selden's background and stuff.
But I think they want you to like him, yeah, which is helping.
Yeah, it wasn't off putting. If you told me in advance of like you're gonna spend like the last twenty minutes of this episode just all Harry Seldyn, they'd be like, oh God. But yeah, no, it was really interesting and yeah, all the all the storylines are interesting.
So I forgot all about that magician guy.
Yeah, honestly, I don't remember what he's trying to do right now.
He's like on some coordinate mission.
Yeah, I know they sent him on a mission. They gave him the ship and everything. I still remember what his goal was. I assume they're going to touch on that next episode.
So trivia time, What facts or news could we uncover for Why the Gods Made Wine?
This is Foundation season two, episode six, Why the Gods Made Wine originally aired on August eighteenth, twenty twenty three, and the teleplay was written by Jane Espenson, with a story by David S. Goyer and directed by Alex Graves. All Right, so I couldn't find any specific trivia about this episode, but I thought we could look at what's to come with season three, which I'm sure we'll look at it again when we get to the end of
the season. But so season three does not have a release state yet, but it expected to come out in
twenty twenty five. And season three began filming in late May twenty twenty three, and then filming was halted due to the Hollywood labor disputes, and then when it resumed production in February twenty twenty four, production disbanded once again due to budgetary issues, before then resume in March twenty twenty four, and then showrunner David S. Goyer has now parted ways with the series, presumably due to these budget disputes.
So a lot of turmoil with the third season, but it appears to have been shot and should come out sometime over the next year. And then Alexander Sadig, who we know as doctor Julian Basher, he's been cast in a role as doctor Ebling Meee, was a character from the books, and if you remember, he was also in I think the first episode of the first season as a different character, so he must be a fan to want to come back new something else?
Are the album or the money was right?
Yeah, it's true. That sounds like the money's tight. They also announced that season four writing is underway with a new showrunner on board.
Deep Space Dive. Let's break down some of our thoughts on the episode. You can share your thoughts with us through email or social media. We may use your comments on an upcoming episode.
All right, deep Space dive. Unless you're Harry Seldon and that's a deep sea dive. O, suck it, Harry. Why are the gods made wine?
Why they say was to distract you because your enemies, like you couldn't stab them, so you make them foolish or something like that. So it's all about betrayal, That's what it was. They look like little country bumpkins coming into that city. They're like, oh, going through security and like seeing all those people and stuff and talk like laying out all their cards to immigration like idiots. Yeah what, no wonder they got caught up?
Yeah, like surely their their immigration isn't as simple as just like okay, here you go.
I mean some people, that's that's all it takes. It's just like what are you what are you in for I'm here to visit family, who I'm here on a vacation. All right, here's your travel visa. Have fun. And that's how a lot of people actually get into the country and then they like it, or they get a job, or they fall in love, and they end up overstaying
their visa. There's if there was an easier way to become a lawful resident in this country where we live right now, in the United States, that would we wouldn't have so many quote unquote illegal people. Like I don't feel like people can be illegal, it's just that their status in the country is not easy to It's it's not lawful or whatever. But most of most people that come here, they just end up staying over their their travel visa or their student visa. God forbid. You come
here and they find out you're working. But it was like, oh, yeah, I'm from the outer reach and I'm here to talk to Empire about our business. Why would you tell them all that I'm here to travel, I'm a visit.
Yeah, I'm I'm hearing a diplomatic mission yet unannounced.
No appointment, No one's expecting me. That sucks.
Though they got disappeared and right as he was letting go of his addiction.
Yeah, no, I think he let it go when he met that Harry Selden in that little prison.
Yeah, so that's what they were doing on Trentor. We also touched space with the emperor making his announcement to the people that was then bowguarded hijacked.
Even the handmaiden or the Asian lady who takes after her, was like kind of shook that she was doing all this, and he gave her a look like I'm gonna beat you when we get home. Their relationship is so toxic, and I'm worried about empire because he's not popular by any means anymore. Like he's losing planets, he's doing bad stuff. So having a fresh young face with a cloud dress on, like, what do you do.
When you don't what do you mean?
He's like handing over the empire to this young woman, like she's way more charismatic than he is. He sucks. He's gonna he's like fucking around and finding out all at.
Once, yep, because he can't just like get rid of her now because they made that big public announcement. She's like, hey, this is basically a democracy. Now it's telling the people that we serve you and your requests are our obligations. And the look on his face is like, that's the worst thing I've ever heard. Yeah, Like I hate that idea. I don't want to do that.
Yeah.
And meanwhile the other brother down and Dusk are like, yeah, he's about to find out.
They were like ooh. When she had grabbed the mic, the old one especially, his reaction was great, Oh, it's crazy. I don't know, man, that's why you That's why I like you. Really, he really didn't vet her, and I feel like they're conversation in the bedroom when he became flaccid should have been a red flag because this guy, obviously the reason he loves the robot is because she
is controllable. He commands her and she obeys. This other woman is not like that at all, and they're obviously not compatible, So like, why force this because the empire's dying. I'm interested to see what's going to happen with her after this little outburst. Yeah, this episode had a lot of not Gails, but her daughter, what's her name, sal Salvar. It had a lot of Salvar in it.
Yeah, in the beginning, she was learning all about the mentallics.
Yeah, she saw that little boy's memory of getting his throat slit and how that one lady saved him. And then he's like, oh yeah, and then we do this cool mind trick where we can speak out of our brains to each other. And she tried to do it and she can figure it out. And then he takes her into town or the village or whatever, and everybody touches her memories. Yeah, which is interesting, like I think.
Well, and by the people too, just like like zombies reaching at her.
You know, that's how you saw it. That's not how I saw it. I saw it as like a group of people who were excited to share their story with a stranger in a way that we don't get to do a lot in our daily lives. To share your story, especially something that's traumatic or you know the reason why you're othered it's it's uh trauma bonding a little bit.
So I kind of like that. I thought it was sweet and special and kind of overwhelmbeaten too, Like I would be so overwhelmed to be one touched by so many people, but also to be flooded with the experiences, the smells, the sights, the emotions of what they felt right before they were saved by this woman. That would be overwhelming, I think, And so I like that she had to take some time and go be alone with Harry and Fish.
And they try to figure out why why would Harry have been made human? It seems like, oh, he's weaker now than when he was more but her.
Her logic was that he now he has some skin in the game. Yeah, literally, like he's physically manifested in a way where he can lose his life, and now maybe life is more precious to him as a human than it would have been as an algorithms or whatever the fuck he was.
Yeah, there's a lot of concern about, you know, failing to see the humanity and all this when they're trying to save people, and that people can become numbers or just you know, planets without faces to them.
What a plot twist that that lady who saved so many lives as actually like a people hate her, like she hates normal humans like Harry. I was like, oh damn, she's just as bad as the humans are who are like persecuting the people that she's saving.
Yeah, because at first, when she's like, I like what you're trying to do saving people. I just wish we could do it without Harry Seldon. I'm like, yeah, me too, I can get.
On board with that. Yeah. I was like, yeah, I'm honestly like, yeah, I can understand that. I feel that, and I think Gail should totally go solo.
But then she starts saying a few things here and there. She's like, we should be saving the right people or something like that. Oh yeah, I don't know what do you make of her.
I think she's a classic like sociopath where you pick and choose who's worthy of your time and energy and you don't see the humanity and the people that aren't like you. So it's just like it's a typical asshole. She's a dick. She's only saving the people she deems worthy of saving, which is not the way that you should be saving people. It's like, I don't know, It's like, just because you don't like everybody doesn't mean they don't
deserve to live. But that's exactly how she feels. Because we are different, we deserve to live, and no everybody else deserves to die perish. And she wants to destroy the Foundation because it's saving a version of humanity that she does not agree should be saved. I mean, I don't know. You can't pick and choose who's human and who's worthy of living a human life. And when you
start doing that, you start becoming the problem. So it kind of sucks because I really liked her in the first episode she showed up in.
Yeah, So now we're in this situation where it's like it's hard to try anyone when she can be so manipulative and deceptive.
And she like makes you go into your own mind to fuck you up, yeah, and do things you don't want to do, like when she threw the water at Gale and she like made her be at her home planet all of a sudden. That was so fucked up to do that to somebody without their consent, without warning, that like that right there was like huge red flag. To show up unannounced, to talk to me out of your voice in a way that's kind of condescending, like well,
I can't talk like that. How dare you, you know, talk to me on my level, and then to manipulate me to the point where I feel like, oh, you're trying to make me vulnerable, and then present an idea to me that says, turn your back on everything that you know and join this group without any knowledge of what this group is really about. You've known us for like a couple of hours, but here lead us because
you're special. And Gail fucking takes the bait, which shows that she's still fooper ignorant and young and naive about the world around her. Because if a bitch had me going back to my home world, a place that brings me a lot of grief, I'd be on edge and I would be not receptive at all, especially with the circumstances in which we met are deception, lies and outright like like just falsifying your identity, Like why would I
trust you at all? Like her testing the water is the least of what she should be doing, but then she goes out and grabs some fruit and gives it to her daughter, Like, bitch, what if that fruit's poisoned?
To right, That's what I was thinking the whole time, because they just talked about how like maybe we can't drink the water.
What makes you think you can eat or some random fruit? I don't know. It's so fucking weird. I don't understand. And her character development or lack thereof, Like I don't like because to me, the Gail character doesn't want to
be the center of attention. She's just kind of been pulled into this because she's a smart girl, and she's been used for her intelligence time and time again, and now she's just falling into another trap where another person is using her intelligence or her ability to their advantage. That's what Harry did, and now that's what this other woman is doing. And when is she going to fall out of this trap of moving for other people? When is she going to find her own purpose? What if
the foundation has nothing to do with her? She just she's smart enough to see it, Yes, But what if she's smarter to move beyond the foundation And we haven't even gotten into that at all. How there's a flaw in the foundation that she saw there's she hasn't done anything to bring that to light, to bring a resolution to try to fix that problem. What is she doing? She's trying to eat a cult? Now what the fuck?
I'm confused about her character development, I really am, and I must I'm a little upset about it because you would think that after being used and manipulated for so long. Literal centuries. First it was Race, and then it was Harry, and now it's this woman, Like, when is she gonna break out of this fucking pattern? It's fucked up. I
don't like it. I don't like it at all. And I hope that she's able to disconnect from these toxic people and find her own pass or solve the foundation problem in a way that Harry couldn't do or can't do. I don't know, it's upsetting. I'm just like, why is she doing this? It makes no sense, Like the lady's argument was not compelling.
Enough for me. Yeah, so it's almost like she convinced her off screen. Yeah, so I don't don't have to make of that because tell them even says to her, like, these are your weaknesses. This is what Harry is used to, you know, manipulate you. And then I feel like she uses those things. Yeah literally, all right, So she has someone impersonate Harry and fly the beggar.
Right, she has fucking lackeys. That's already, like, that's how bad she is. She's so bad. She has fucking henchman pretending. Well, first of all, she has Gail and them come out and she's like, well, Gail's not gonna be your friend anymore, and she wants you to leave because we're doing the
foundation without you. And she manipulates Harry to the point where he's like run away and cry, and that's when she takes her opportunity to impersonate Harry and have him fly away on the ship, which honestly would have been the best thing for him to do if he could have done that, just fucking leave those bitches. Then, Like when I saw him leave, I'm like, finally he's leaving, and he's taking the Radiant with him. Good for him.
It's like when you're the little kid who gets bullied and you find decide you're gonna go home and you're taking your ball with you. What are they gonna play with now? But it was actually her two steps ahead of him, fucking taking the thing that has like taking the ship so they can turn it inside out looking for this fucking thing that they want to destroy, and she straps him down to a tidepool. Evil genius. Evil genius.
Yeah, So now I feel like all our hope is with Salvor because Gail, I feel like she's in the cold now.
Yeah, she's in She's in like sin, she's gone. She's their leader now quote unquote leader, and what's her name. She's like, well, we're gonna explain to her what death means. You know, we're gonna fix it. She's she's gonna forgive me, and she won't mats. She won't care that Harry dies because he's a normy. Yeah, like shit, she's fucked up. And then as Harry is like in his I don't know, it's not a deathbed, but it's kind of like a deathbed. He's like in his final stages of death, he gets
transported into these old the past. We see his past, we see what he's guilty about, why he like decided, like why he's been so quiet since he got there, and he's like kind of reserved. Apparently he's a fucking murderer. Yeah what and he killed uh, some bitch from the empire in a pencil skirt with the fucking stampede like scar from fucking the loing Like what Also, the haircut that they gave to young Harry is fucking ass. What
the fuck was that? What the fuck was that they should have made him wear a little hat or something? What the hell? Like a little professor hat you know what the hell? I don't know, man, his past is like a very interesting I still don't understand how he got away with murder and was able to recruit Gail with a national contest for mass after that.
I mean, I assume that because he did so much manipulation of their tech that he was able to cover whatever tracks or were I guess, so just yeah, And.
I'm guessing he took the deal because he was at trantor eventually, so what was all that? I don't want to go I'll be I'll be so upset if I leave this city. Oh, I'll be so worthless. And he's such a whiner. Just take the deal, go be by the like. You can have your happy wife and life and be under a constant surveillance here, or you can give up your tech. Now, those are your choices, and you chose neither, and you fucking did the thing you didn't want to do anyway, minus a wife and child
or whatever. You're your partner. So it's just like, boohoo. I'm so sad when he said if I go there, I'm gonna be so like limited in what I can do. And welcome to the world. Welcome to the world of living in any sort of authoritarian government. You don't want to give up your freedom, bro, When did you have it? When did you have this perceived freedom? Because it's all perceived, baby, it's not real. You were always gonna have to do one or the other. You didn't really have a choice.
But you made it worse for yourself by throwing a fucking tantrum and not listening to the woman in your life. And then you lost her, and then you went and murdered another woman. You murdered two women with your actions, one directly one indirectly. He's a trash human being. I don't like him, Like all of this just made me feel like, Aha, fuck, just let him die. His life
is miserable. Let him just die. He doesn't want to live anyway, right, Like he thinks everyone is gonna die and every the world is going all down the toilet, and we need a foundation so we can come out of the toilet a nice new turd. Let him die. We don't need Harry Selden, we really don't. I'm interested to see what's going to happen with him as he is graining the toilet.
Yeah, so we also learned that his wife Yanna was like, the reason psychohistory works is because of her. Yeah, even though he's out there getting all the credit these days like a man. But yeah, I did find that backstory actually really engaging. Yeah, I was really good. I was really upset that he murdered a girl fucking scarf from the Lion King style, like what the fuck? You know, if Mufasa just recognized the patterns, he would have been fine. Yeah. So, yeah,
he's drowning and we've fade the black on that. So I think, I mean, Salvor was the one that got to talk to him in between him storming away from that argument and being put in that pool. Yeah, so, I mean she hopefully is suspicious of everything because she knows that, like, well, one, he wanted her to find the radiant the radio on the ship, so it doesn't make sense that he would have taken her away.
If he doesn't know where it is.
Yeah, and then we briefly touched in with hober Mallow and him arriving with the Spacers.
The genetically engineered humans. Yeah, we learned that in this episode too, that they're genetically engineered humans. Yes, so we will see what their significance to the Foundation is I like that They're like, what have you soiled the space? Why did you taint it? It's you're nasty.
Well yeah, so I'm I'm guessing we're gonna see more of him next episode. He was just kind of threadd in there lightly anything else on this episode.
I'd like more flashbacks, Like I think I said that in the last episode that I'm like, I really enjoyed spending time in the past, So I really do enjoy that. I think that helps us with the character development in a lot of ways.
Yeah, because I mean, Harry Selman is more human now than he has been the whole show. Mm hmmm, and not just because he's literally human now.
Yeah.
And I was surprised it was such a lengthy flashback. I assumed we were just getting a quick flashback.
Right, I thought we were going to see the murder and that's it. But we saw the whole development of like him becoming a tenured professor and accepting the job and developing these crazy ideas and getting a watchdog assigned to him, and you know, maneuvering the staircases and meeting a new anganu who helped him like break over in his study. He is Field of study in a way that never before has been seen. And then he like has a baby, and then all of a sudden he doesn't have a baby.
And oh my god, accidentally turn on some other show, like a academic drama.
I don't know. I liked it though I thought it was good. I really do like the flashbacks. I want to see a flashback of what happened to the Cloud Princess's parents. For all of the referencing of oh, you killed my family or my family's dead, I haven't seen their tragedy and I would love to see that, Like I want to see the especially because she survived the attack, so I would love to see that story. Yeah, maybe it's in the works.
Yeah, I mean maybe we will will get it, just because they've now revealed like the Emperor was behind it.
But yeah, I'm into the flashbacks. I think I'm starting to get into the show.
Would you like to get into the astral Queen section?
Oh shit, yeah, astral Queen who was the standout character in the episode. I'm gonna pick a homegirl, more specific Balvor. She caught a fish, she did, and it was her birthday.
It was her birthday.
And she got to uh, you know, connect with the people, learn about stuff, and she.
Seemed like genuinely happy through a lot of this episode.
I liked her role in this one. I thought she was really present, Like I think part of it was that what she did a lot was questions. She had questions for Harry, she had questions for that kid. She had questions, and I love a bitch who has questions. As a bitch who has questions, I love me a bitus questions.
Yeah, she didn't come come out any of it with judgment or anything.
No, it was just pure curiosity and learning and understanding and just being open to an experience. Who's your astro queen? Is it the Cloud Princess?
I'm leaning that way. I also had Salvar in mind because.
That Cloud Princess. That dress was iconic, that cloud dress. I want that dress, even with that little bit of titty coming out. Love it.
Yeah. I did love her speech and how angry she's made brother day oh.
Man, that was the angriest teeth Like, I've never seen that guy act harder.
So yeah, I'll pick her for a moment. I was thinking I might pick tell him, but then her character went off the deep end.
Yeah, yeah, I really miss the good days when she was just a hairy hater. But when she was when she said all normis die, I'm like, oh no, oh no, friend, that's a genocide.
Oh no, well, yeah, so Salvar and Sarah will be receiving awards on this the birthday of Salvar.
Only if you're counting the solar cycles of tram toor or whatever she sucked terminus terminus, it's only her birthday if you're coning the solar cycles of her that is. That's so cute too.
And is she not like hundreds of years old?
Now I don't know. I don't know how old she would be.
All right, let wraps up the episode. Then we'll be back for episode this seven. Yeah, episode seven a necessary death. I wonder if that's Harry. Thank you for spacing out with us, and remember when you feel the tug of history, give it a whole.
What what's that from?
So he says when she catches a fish?
Oh that's a really good one. I'm gonna get that tattooed.
Thank you for spacing out with Bebe and Jason. You can help us out by subscribing and leaving a positive rating or review. Remember you can contact us through email or social media. Next time we will cover Foundation season two, episode seven, A Necessary Death