#1: Eddie Harran — How Time Connects or Fragments Us

spk_0:   0:00
cosmic time is the same for everyone but human time difference with each person. Time flows in the same way for all human beings. Every human being flows through time in a different way.

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You're in for a treat. In this conversation I entered, I look with Eddie Herren, who studies Kronos. A fee on goes by his alter ego, Dr Time. In a deep exploration of an interdisciplinary exploration of time, we talk about time, empathy and hell. We relate to time and how this influences our connections. We talk about the fresh start effect and how can design time or our freedom and cadence. In a way, they can support us in well being. And we talk about the ways that we might experience time in this time Corbett, 19 and so be ready to enter the rebel warren of time. A deep philosophical exploration, but also one that much bring, hopefully some new questions, but also some insights that will help you navigate the time that is life gravity. Take a breath, Nerdist, inhale, exhale and the space between a moment in between moments, he your newest into spaces between with your friend and host L. Jeffrey and open exploration into restoring connection in the 21st century. In our personal lives are relations and our communities. What does it mean to live in relationship to the wholeness of who we are together? This is it. Let's dive in, Eddie. Let's kick it off. Thanks for taking the time. Yeah, yeah, lovely to connect its being with Bean, I suppose, dancing and swimming in similar circles for probably six years. Also now,

spk_0:   1:51
yeah, for a while.

spk_1:   1:54
And so it's been brilliant, too. I suppose both share in witnessing each other's journeys through time and how we have evolved. How our identities and I work in the world is is moving and shaping. And we're going to really deep, deep dive into time itself in time, in the psyche, in time, in connection or relationship. But firstly, yeah, we were talking about with a question of How are you now? But also just the notion that everyone is experiencing that question of how are you now very different in this time, and it's hard to have a conversation these days without mentioning posted 19. And of course, this is incredibly important to contextualize. The conversations were about tohave so yet. How are you in this time?

spk_0:   2:34
Yeah, I suppose that nature of gratitude and kind of a sitting duty to participate in the chaos. So let me let me explain gratitude and sense that, like, I'm dealing so grateful that, like I live in Australia and, you know, I've got some work. You know, a lot of people are suffering in Australia that with three million people unemployed, then I have family and so on friends and said, I just I I so grateful for that. But I feel that kind of guilt. There's a lot of people are suffering, and I don't have that. And I couldn't see it. This how are you? Like I have this sense of, like, a civic duty to one, like, participate and play my part in the tails and the something that's like that we're seeing right now. So, yeah, that's my How are you? It's kind of strange, you know? Yeah. Strange place to be in. Yeah,

spk_1:   3:39
yeah, yeah. And there's a sensitive Well, I just feel it as my experience of it is kind of an Ambien anxiety. I've really noticed it in my sleep in the last week. especially was five days or five nights sleeping heavily and then waking up like 4 a.m. and just not being out of fall back asleep again, which is a very unusual

spk_0:   4:01
man. Crazy, crazy dreams. Last night it was about the money lost, like this morning. Five o'clock, Dude, I woke up screaming s new. Well, I could go way. Like what?

spk_1:   4:18
So it's definitely a lot of un first. Esther, I've been reading a lot of Freud at the moment as well. Yeah, and yet I just sense there is so much suppressed Owen process toe just remnants from our history. Uh, that is now coming to the surface and possibly because we're in this kind of collective liminal zone. And also maybe because for some of us, maybe we're also more rested then We have been for quite some time because we've got this space now. And so you know, when you've got enough sleep, you're going to dream. And so we're now dreaming more, which I think is incredibly healthy emotionally for the processing take place.

spk_0:   5:05
Yeah, and you know, I think that like, Eagle, this whole self isolation, it's like kind of forcing people toe being like a monastic kind of style of living, you know? And that's stem from the people. But like when you remember monastic kind of stuff, Of course, your brain and body might be a bit more chill and course you're gonna have my have different types during. So yeah, I thought to myself the other day, like, what are the older, unexpected random things? So they're gonna go That gonna happen out of this, dear? Like what? It's like a monastic class emerged because everyone's had their own private monastery.

spk_1:   5:44
Mmm Mmm Mmm.

spk_0:   5:46
This is gonna be weird. Things are gonna happen.

spk_1:   5:48
Yeah, I just love this morning, actually going for my morning walk around the block. Just a little quirky things that people are starting to do, Like bringing their catches that now into the nature strip just so they can sit outside and watch people wonder by and just

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one of things like

spk_1:   6:02
that. So good seeing people taking the time yesterday on old lady just very diligently and intentionally and with so much presence it seemed painting the numbers on head lead abouts just taking time to do all these other things. So beautiful.

spk_0:   6:18
I saw It was the last week I was looking at the beach And these two horses, just like we're their horse. That is like walking on the road. Yeah, just ice, like, you know, because I often technology is especially automobiles than to transport. Like that's how we often marks different purists forces to cars. And so to see this kind of old time transportation system, it was like, What is it? Has time reverted back again? You know, it was kind of like a glitch glitch in my matrix. Yeah,

spk_1:   6:55
well, yeah, I suppose to note for listeners that Eddie and I were talking before about time dilation and time warping. And of course, a lot of our ah, conversation is going to be around time and relationship and connection and perception. And so this conversation is going to be an experience of hopefully a kind of time or so they will be tangents. They will be a little wisdom, bones and things. It's going to be very emergent, Andi. We're goingto hope for it to be an experience of a kind of dialogue, which I am itself. What's well, weeks award time. Yeah,

spk_0:   7:37
Yeah. Shared presence in a kind of time travel movie machine that you

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and I am

spk_0:   7:42
answering. Yeah, and way really.

spk_1:   7:48
So to build context, we build context around ourselves in this time to build context about around yourself. So, Eddie, Dr Time And how have you traveled to time through time? I mean to arrive at this, I suppose. Curiosity and fascination that you now have with

spk_0:   8:08
Yeah, um, don't say

spk_1:   8:13
take that way.

spk_0:   8:15
Well, the art of trying to explain yourself authentically and not go into the pitch. You know, that's something I'm still sort of trying to learn. Especially when you sort of for anyone who goes down like, non traditional path. And you do so many things that they I don't know if any listeners related, but that's sort of at this stage of my time, let's set something up. I'm burning. So, um, so anyway, with that context, I'm not such a context person. Um, yes, I'm ready. Um, I work as a Quran Ossa for and the Quran. Ah, Zafer is a philosophy. Is this interdisciplinary study of time and so that's no. My interest is time is kind of like a mega theme and and time. There's a time threatened just about it, you know? And so it soon looking at things from an interdisciplinary time thread, it just gives you, like a very, uh, no whole perspectives of how to see things. So that's kind of like the in my portfolio of work. That's probably the remaining thing that occupies my time. Before this, I works in the kind of innovation Shin take Francine. I worked in a coal bricks and this kind of criminal prominence Silicon Valley base. Take think tank. And it's a story that I got immersed the different online news and to sort of cut to the essence of it. I came across a certain community that's that were kind of allow learning in a different way. You know, allowing a bony Wait. Just explore question that you know that normal society, with its need to like provide clear outcomes, didn't didn't doesn't normally now and I very emergent, Lee got interested in what is time and the motivation behind that was, you know, I read guys like Buck Mr Fuller, like maybe cow joke and like, have like, mega Polly masks. And I was just feeling called you, like focusing on one thing you know, like a cross person. One thing. One thing. Well, that was, like, kind of mine. Cool. And I didn't really know what subjects I wanted it to be, but that was kind of the scholar. And you wanted to do that. And, yeah, one time emerged. That kind of was like, Holy shit. This is like a a specialty thing, which makes me feel very a lineman. But it's also a generalist platform to my coming back together was just very just sell Burial of lies to me because of my work is detective researcher. He just dabble in like so many different fields and topics. And that's kind of interesting that my, you know, the rise of the generalist, but yet to have those things. So that's a kind of long answer. But yeah, time itself. Look, I'm still in the journey and discovering things why I'm into it. But as oppose, it's it's really ecstatic to discover, like a kind of a sensing of the world that might emerge through you and soon your desserts. So Steen able to sense time. It's like a It's like a seed like another sense that I have, and it's really exciting. You know, it's like when you become a meditator or you become a sports person like a bus. Yeah. Bossed about people talking about your possible. I keep, you know, what is that? It's a really deep kind of sensitivity. Yeah, I like it. But it's hard to explain if you're not a basketball in tens. Yeah, you know, so in the same way, it's just through this research, chatting with hundreds of people, like reflecting sign of Got this sense. And there's this overwhelming urge I have to share that with others because, like, having some kind of sense is time that you don't need to do this notorious mate, But having spent some time to really benefit your lives

spk_1:   12:53
Yeah, yeah, yes. So let's see if we can, as it was in part, some of those when you say it's hard to communicate it to others. Yeah, I'm curious how you the hell felt sense of time. If someone was to ask you how How do you perceive or how do you relate to time yet? How do you suppose communicate that to somebody who may not have gone down this rabbit

spk_0:   13:23
hole? Yeah, So I'm always start like casinos. The question the the puzzle is actually in the question itself. So let me explain when people say what is time often said it was the wrong question. It's actually what are the times, actually, um, clear? Oh, it's not one singular thing. So there are, like, hundreds of times going off everywhere around us and think of, like, you know, systems thinking When you see the world of systems, you know that my everything's interconnected know that the tree is its own system. That's kind of moving with the sky system and like, there's just complexity all around. So in the same way, like, I see the complexity of time that is everywhere. So, like, for example, you have your own timeline. Yeah, and I have my own timeline, and your timeline in my timeline is like kind of having a time trouble experience. And this is one tiny things like, Oh wow, cool. He is another type of time that's emerging, or you like look up in the sky. You know, you see the client time, you know, interacting on the ground, and people are having this experience of covert 19 time, so it's just when, then Everything to me is interesting and everything has a fine elements to it. Yeah,

spk_1:   14:58
yeah, love it. Would you relate to it? Because for me, it's very much the same in I feel like we're very similar and that we are very wide minded. And so it cures about many, many things, and that may has led to many challenges around the question of like So, what do you do? What? I don't talking? No, I'm still working it out. But I'm curious about these things confused about relationships. I'm curious about the psyche, and I'm curious about community and Congress of people. Um, I don't know that's gonna look like, but I'm curious about connection relationship, and that's pretty cool. And that shows up in many, many ways and also means that then, for me, the question about all the way of perceiving in noticing relationship and noticing connections in my everyday life that's a spiritual practice and their connections on so many scales, micro macro and forever evolving. And so, which is why I love hike. It's because they it's an invitation to notice connection on and in a similar way. It sounds like that's kind of the same for you. It's actually noticing.

spk_0:   16:08
I can feel that, you know, you've developed your own sensing of like cannons and wands and we kind of scene evolved connection, you know, And and it's your kind of unique the elastic kind of noticing

spk_1:   16:27
galactic noticing the oh, yeah. So, um, time Ben And change is how do you relate Thio, I suppose. Time and change How are they related? And do we have a perception of time related to also our perception of change around us? You thinking about coded 19 and changed all of a sudden is very much here on with rapid change becomes acute kind of anxiety. You will that impact that perception of time? Well, time good, quicker or it is the in your, I suppose, contemplation self reflection and also research the relationship between time and change. They are related in some way,

spk_0:   17:25
having contemplated the exact word of change. But at home recently, moments as to it and just the thing Waas clears Um, this is just a thought inquired. So make me what Cove in 19 has represented or is showing us is like maybe our structures give us an illusion of lack of change that's actually like the world is always changing. You know, that's the, you know, every Buddhist texts talks about, like, changed the nature of reality. And Leon, only in time and saying things maybe, like with all this chaos, you just we've been forced to like, kind of may be reckoned with the change that was always that play, you know, like with climate change stuff. It's like people not understanding that change is actually happening really quickly because we live in this kind of box time, like living calendar, time clock time. And that kind of it gives the illusion of things not changing ahead. You know, like

spk_1:   18:40
Phil since, yeah, you know,

spk_0:   18:43
a false sense of things. Not changing.

spk_1:   18:46
Yeah. Mm. Yet, yeah. Yeah,

spk_0:   18:51
maybe that's what's happening.

spk_1:   18:53
Yeah. Yeah. So then how, um, in the path of maybe one returning to a more natural clock? Oh, are their own or nature's, um, sense of time. What are some of the things that you've done? And maybe then could be invitations for others who are curious about exploring their own practice and perception of time? Um, how have you played with time in your own life and ritual in practice.

spk_0:   19:22
Ah, stole so many things. Yeah. Um, So you know, when your time guy Sometimes people assume that you, like you comes You optimize their time all the time and delight, you know, constantly. Just awesome. With time. That's definitely not the case of me. You know, the reason why I probably got in the time that I probably have the most time and salad? Yeah. And you know, like, one thing for me is just understanding. That's, you know, it's in the same way that life is hard, like relationship with time is difficult because it's complicated, you know, And you're always gonna sometimes do you like, really good about it in time? You know that other times, you know, and so I guess I'm a little bit more accepting of that. And yes, I just want that. I mean, that's what kind of one. I don't know. Something that I'm rocking this nurse to just think about like you don't have to. Yes, you know, you want to be optimized time and I love some of it's, You know, it's kind of Tim Paris hacker types that talk about you volunteering your time, and that's kind of pulling a work context. But you don't want to do that like a nature context right now. No. So So I'm just trying to think I've got, like, three things on my most of question again. Look at my paint sea for six years, right? So

spk_1:   20:57
make your practice of relating to time. So how in your personal life have you changed the way that you relate to time? Is there a way the structure, your days or not? Is the alarm clocks like, Do you not have watches? What? Some, I suppose counter intuitive. Or we have ways that maybe people wouldn't even consider that you have played with an altered your relationship to time.

spk_0:   21:21
Yeah. Okay. Um, so one thing I know is every month I do a ritual, a transition of it. So and I do that to create a sense of, like, chapters between each month, not just like, kind of then march. Really? But when you capt if I your life, you feel like you're kind of in a story and when you're instruct your own story time, that just makes life feel very alive. So, in time, psychology they talk about this idea called the fresh start A sect. You know, the most common examples are due, you know, when yearly time changes, we all know that fresh start of things when it becomes 2019 to 2000. Funny, it really feels like a fresh start, you know, like you can feel it didn't really feel it right like you getting is happening. And so knowing that that psychological thing can happen, my whole thing is like, how can I, like, provoke fresh starts within me all the time? You know, with the monthly thing. I do this a little with the ritual where kind of write down when I was grateful for this last month and then just on the first day, I just call it like mine. No time space and just, like, you know, just focus on, like, a past perspective, which is like gathering what I learned about march and then doing attention. Study for April. And that kind of creates a fresh start. Said you were like on a day level. Like if I have a shit there yesterday No. OK, tomorrow is a new day and I could do the fresh start really is a fresh start. So that's one that's helped me.

spk_1:   23:12
And it's kind of like your in taking that pocket of time to check in and to chapter five your life. You are also then actively choosing to opt into the next chapter like you're choosing Palin, who you want to be when you hopped into the next rather than living at swim and just kind of allowing the next chapter to roll over you and not having that sacred pause. But then you have to

spk_0:   23:38
be very The chapter might be really similar, but But it is creating a kind of newness, you know, like dude, even us connecting like I was like, Okay, it's I I gotta just try something new, but I need to try and you try. Did this unsettled thing Yeah, you know, it's like, OK, just try. And here we are talking right. So like a fresh start can really shape your your life because you just give you my permission to do normal things, you know? And, um, I think I mean, I guess you know what that's That's a really, uh, real effect that can happen with fresh start effect. Did you just think novelty? Because is I mean, I've seen research that says, Like, you know, there's a peak right? Like you have been, usually use resolution, you know, in your novelty might go for like Jan said March. But it could. You just kind of go back into normally. And I've done that. I do this every single year. I wished I have could have had that. And but I'm aware that that pattern was common to many people. Yeah, and so am I. Okay, if my time practices lifelong Hey, that's just That's

spk_1:   24:54
one thing I'm curious for, um, for the monthly checking, because I do the monthly as well, and I've just started instead of timing at the end of kind of the Gregorian calendar month. And now pair it with the moon. The moon cycle? Yes, because

spk_0:   25:08
people do that, too, because

spk_1:   25:10
it's something really powerful about feeling that natural connection in connection to a natural phenomenon that is larger than oneself. So do you your rituals and, I suppose, your rhythm and cadence Is it connected to the Gregorian calendar, or have you found your own rhythm? Or

spk_0:   25:27
maybe I used the Gregorian calendar a little bit because it's sort of hard to fully detach yourself from the Gregorian calendar. It's easy to say that, you know, like if you're in nature all the time, the reason why you feel better when you go camping in nature is because, like you're in a space and you do sort of sync up with nature time. But because we live in the society and the Gregorian is the predominant operating system, it's a little I find a little bit high. So unlike that they have a Let me just use that and I just call it like, What's the next horizon? So I just have my own, like creative calendar that is just hijacking the Gregorian, but

spk_1:   26:08
yeah, yeah. And so that's why the next horizon for you would be the next month, so to speak. Yes, So you create your own kind of linguistics around

spk_0:   26:18
it. Yeah, and, you know, I'm always felt like my friend Chris helped me out in Jan. And like, you know, he's is very diligent. You need Thio, so he's kind of brings that I had a change of plan in which I sometimes don't have and like you know he didn't like 10. He showed me his proper process, which is, like, you know, what's four years? Take those four years, break him down into 12 months, 12 months of water And, like, I really like that engineering you kind of side of things. So I'm tryingto go back and again and like, Yeah, looks like he has that, That that's like, I like that,

spk_1:   26:59
Yeah, I suppose it's a real balance between, like, a very masculine approach of structuring time, which I usedto have, like, have my habit journal and my daily check in and not my weekly checking my monthly my ritual

spk_0:   27:13
that you did that on.

spk_1:   27:15
Then I swing to the other side. I'm like, Fuck it, this is too hot and the active trying to be productive in this way's unproductive within itself. Um and so try and

spk_0:   27:25
similar You probably be on the more feminine aspect of things, but like you're kind of message space and trying to like integrate, too. But, you know, But

spk_1:   27:34
it's really like it becomes is quiet, um, pronounced active, really listening to oneself because there are so many like you pull a general method. So many methods now at how to be productive and et cetera, and they're trying to expose merge. The true where there is space for fluidity and spontaneity. There's also enough structure you to get shit done. Um, but is there any I suppose inside, strong from your experience is how one can navigate those two poles of trying to have enough structure that they don't just lose themselves with.

spk_0:   28:06
Winds are it's hard. Um, I wanna plug three things change into that. Yet the one the log. Extraordinary routines. Huh? Um uh, my mandolin Dori. She's an Australian. Her work is fantastic, Brett. Her word is fantastic. And we chatted a few times on instagram and stuff. And like our time philosophies are very aligned. She advocates a kind of gentler kind of form of time. So if you want oh, looking did details about, like, just more kind ways. And you can connected your routines and rituals and that kind of thing I recommend having looked at her stuff and to resource is that I wanted to share with you guys and hacks that I use is one clap form called focused at will. And it's this music made by like, these narrow musicians and scientists. And seriously, I promise you, I promise you, you listen to the music and you will focus. Well, he just likes it. Blows my mind, I e like, I feel bad. I haven't told more can come about it. Yeah,

spk_1:   29:22
it's a competitive.

spk_0:   29:24
It's so good, man. Hello. Because I can't nd d gray man too much divergent thinking. Powder needs. So just so I just listened to the music and helps me focus.

spk_1:   29:34
Is it similar to another one? I use his brain FM. Have you heard brain?

spk_0:   29:37
Okay, Yeah, but I think there is a lot of, let's say, a mental scaffolding through digital that can help you focus, you know, make back by sorry. See much use that enhance your time. Yeah, And then the third thing with Charlie I found earlier this year accidentally and it's actually been really powerful. So it's called focus mates. And it's this beautiful products. Basically, it's like check, chapter let and it hooks you up with random people and you do a sprint session a 15 minutes for in session of work. So you just like you go on your calendar pick sometimes and someone who broke up and he was to say, Hey, what you looking at? What you do, And then you just get to work and you do 50 minutes sprint sessions on. You know what? The time pressure, the social time, pressure as someone who's like, works alone of us like I will get work done, you know? And even if I don't get my work done having that ritual of knowing, I just have to rock up. No. So you do I just schedule it, you know, and I just go, OK? Do you know I put in my dog? I'm gonna do one from this late and to focus it will, Yeah. Anybody doesn't like it, is there? Like it doesn't follow it. And even if I don't get everything done like still

spk_1:   31:07
like to get more done that you would have otherwise

spk_0:   31:09
ever more Adam and I have, it's satisfying to know that you utilized your time the way that's a male masculine thing. Right? But we gotta have a balance. Yeah, um, and one thing I wanted to show that I've only done the last few days, which is actually been really cool to see the time perception difference is writing what I'm gonna do the next day, the night before on my phone, just like envisioning it. But I'm gonna do this. This I want these experience, and when it does it, like it last the mind to imagine overnights on. And then I have, like, a map for the day ahead. You don't have to think about like what I'm gonna do today. I've already done that yesterday. Of course, the maps gonna change, but I don't have to wake up in the morning like I mean, people do that with calendars and stuff, right? But I'm talking, like, more. Just fun details like I'm good for what I think about this. So I'm like,

spk_1:   32:09
Yeah, similar, like many playful characteristics, all values. But you're glad to inhabit the next day or something.

spk_0:   32:18
Exactly. You're using your frontal imagination brain the night before because, you know, we only have so much willpower and our brain. How did that decides about it? Look like you can't exert much for power all the time. So that

spk_1:   32:35
and yeah, in the morning off the next day, when your scattered and I find with myself if I'm trying to plan my day out, but from the morning I end up in this kind of existential luke, Actually, exactly at your on dhe because especially the nature of our work is highly complex to conceptualize, it takes a lot of cognitive ability. And so to do that in the morning No, I need to know what I'm waking up for

spk_0:   33:02
exactly. And like, Thio hold Chief Creative officer Brain and Chief operating officer brain at the same time in the morning. And you just woke up and, you know, you know, you looked on the eve of the first U. I do. Everyone does that.

spk_1:   33:19
Yeah, Best not to the handy tip

spk_0:   33:23
this before best. And I'm practicing too deep work thing and trying, but

spk_1:   33:28
yeah, that's another one. We should definitely mention deep work. Yes, yes. Very focused time instead of short amount of time. Lots of activities. It's essentially a long amount of time. Fewer activities, a distraction, free working for those who haven't heard of it before. But it will be in the show notes. So, um, I'm curious to dive more into expose the, uh, cultural aspects of time to steer us away a little bit. from the kind of time hacking and productivity aspect of time my nerdy itself is curious about because I've seen online. You you post a number of photos on Dr Time your alter ego, instagram bitch, which I'm also really curious to hear more about your alter ego and how that has come about and why that's useful to you. But that could be for a little bit later. How other cultures perceive time and how that influences I suppose they will being their creativity, the connection that experience, You know that Tribes. Clans. Yeah. What is just being some things that you find have been surprising and useful in Castro's inform. Your perception of time would have been some other cultures ways of perceiving and designing times that you found useful to know about.

spk_0:   34:48
Yeah, Okay. Um, so, uh, okay, so a statement. First, every culture has a different relationship with possible isn't a teacher. So that that's some of more crossed orientated someone more future, someone more present orientated. So research has indicated that when you're near the equator in this more tropics, you actually tend to be more present boring title, right? Because you know that in you know, Spanish mignon mignon. So good. This is great. So, um, every culture has a different Let's call it like a time stamp. Okay? One of the first sort of insights I had my journey or not an insight, but realizing that I've been thinking about this a long time to my own personal experience. So I'm Japanese American, and they both have a very kind of different aspect relationship with time. So, you know, the American culture tends to be very future or intended. They have sort of a bit of a bias towards that. You know, the American dream. A dream is like a future orientated concept. Like where you going? Success like there's a reason why I love these platforms. Like LinkedIn, you know, emerged out of the U S. Like I still feel like it's a teacher. Bias somehow deeply, you know, because the whole resume is a kind of had a weird merchant future, right? But he doesn't take to account the messiness of the present. It's like the kind of just, like, kind of like a row of this future. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, and I've lived in the states a few times. And so, like, I'm always kind of Oh, wow. It's very future orientated culture where well, one thing I like about Japan is they have blend. The two decided three upon president future. But I think because of their old history, the past perspective is more sort of kind of prominent, I suppose so. You know you can walk in Japan and you'll see like a huge temple that's 600 years old next to a gambling place. No, and just to give you some. Mum is Japanese Dad's American, but Dad's in a bag And who's that? And I have this joke with that. Actually, I always joke to him about it, but, um, don't call here. Stop injured Japanese that have this term not squashing, which means nostalgic, just brightest object. But Japanese will often use it very cloak, really, and they'll say all the time, right? That's not scratching that such crushing were in our language and English like you don't use nostalgic all the time, but it's e. You'll use it, but it's not part of like our come instead of words. Jackie's Everything is not stashing which what what is not discussion? It's like a kind of appreciation of the past. So I call my dad and no discussion of junkie like I kid around them to my whole life. Just he's obsessed with not Scott. She just stupid shit like he'll go for a walk around the block and, like, go to his old apartment and stand there and like remnants, you know, and I just you know, e just laughed with them about it. But I said that because it just is an example of life. He's got this possible mutation, and I think it's sort of partially perhaps been influenced by Japanese culture. But he's more of a cost sort of person. Where's my mom, Mrs Japanese? She's very future, all mutated. Very so. I mean, I'm seeing now I'm talking about human psychology, but but the point being is that you know every culture as a different class and is often by, like the mid loss of a country and how the extensive world and

spk_1:   38:57
yeah, I suppose it's almost more important not to because we can talk about cultures. And that's incredibly important in its own way, as a way of gaining perspective or context, but not to place people into that too frequently. So every person a matter work culture there from will have their own individual orientation and times

spk_0:   39:22
Exactly. Yeah, and still, like, yeah, thinking that is a concept like if the culture has a cost present, future and every person does you and like, you know, that sometimes can provide tension. You know, like the monk. The month, like a monk, is very present orientated, you know. But a month might not find his place in New York City where it's very fast time and very future. Perhaps no. Was a monk in in a light of time, culture like that Say, you know India where you know, people are more present. Lloyd's not. We should make a generalization, but well,

spk_1:   40:01
you have to be. Otherwise you're going to step on cow shit. You're gonna be hit by that bag, that car they

spk_0:   40:08
you know, I

spk_1:   40:09
just a constant flow state. When I was in India, I mean, my mom's from India, and so I have quite a strong connection there as well. And whenever I've being back, I just every time, especially in main cities of Kolkata or a deli, um, he had his fill catapulted into a flow state. And only when I get home at the end of a 12 hour day, whatever it is, m I A would actually recall what I've done for the day, because why did you stop for a moment and try and recall what I've done? I would be run over Or is that cold into this underground last somehow, somewhere and just going with

spk_0:   40:48
Exactly. I went to their Nazi and like, that place is beautiful. Chaos in line. Don't have timeto think about the clock when you're walking around like don't loans everywhere. There are no use and stuff.

spk_1:   41:05
And so I suppose this leads onto the concept of time empathy which we touched on, um, offline earlier. And so, um yeah, I'm curious what was for you. What is time, empathy, And why is it important? Obviously this us then bring us to the conversation of how does our perception of time and others perception of time? How did they meet in the middle? And how does this I the enhance relationship or deterred from quality relationship in connection?

spk_0:   41:32
Yes. So, um I mean, we've kind of been having a time and pathetic conversation. So have anyway. But I think just time that the thing is about, I don't know be Firstly, this is kind of a term I'm just sort of playing with. One of my work is taking complex stuff about time and making it simple and in stories in a way that everyone can kind of play it. So my tempted like saying time, But I'm sort of and the moment just finding ways of integrating the term empathy in time. So to be trying, empathetic, just being aware that everyone has a complicated relationship with time and we're in complicated time contacts. So just being sensitive to that, you know, so that I have a friend who he's often my example of the time empathetic person. He's always late, always lights like Well said, Meet up at this time and we'll just walk up sometimes like 20 minutes lights, you know? But I went to this going like, Oh, this is interesting timing, but like, let's look at his situation right. He obviously has more of a present orientated nature, and he's juggling lots of different times, so he's got his work schedule, has got his family schedule and he travels around the country. No seams juggling airport time in your head. Yeah. Now, that's a lot to handle. No, that's a lot of stuff where it's pretty time that, but look, you know, people would just get pissed off that someone's late. Yeah, you know, But I have time. Empathy is not that you need to accept if everyone's late, but because sometimes that might be like they're not respecting you. Like that's That's a whole nother thing. Just yeah, just being a win that, um oh, I don't know what we're all dealing with time. Um, and could I made you a quote, actually.

spk_1:   43:45
Sure. Yeah. Life crows love poetry. All of these. Yeah. Speak to us. And I want very different ways.

spk_0:   43:54
I want to read you a quote. Um, I have this. I'm gonna release it at some point. I'm last the last few months. I've kind of stopped it now, but like I just every now on it, I would just collect quotes. But here I collected, like, 300 epic quotes. About time, right? You know, it took a while because I was just just finding the gems. Yeah. Oh, I've intentionally called it a clock book project, so you know I'm going to do with it. But every quote I feel like Jason Silver talks about this. But the reason why he loves quotes is there kind of invitations, right? Yeah. Like quotes provoke something within you. That kind of potions of consciousness.

spk_1:   44:37
Yeah. Poof. Like that?

spk_0:   44:39
Yeah. State. No dialogue. Just ragging shipment of urges that she loved our dialogue. Yeah.

spk_1:   44:50
Oh, yeah, kid us with this quote.

spk_0:   44:52
So Okay, so this quote, I hope my privilege, but Steiner quote No, this invocation might provoke what it might feel like to be time with. And it's a quote from a psycho analysis shows all scientists Canadian guy. Yeah, he's dead now. He was in the sixties and seventies nine. L owe it. Uh, Elliot, I can't pronounce Can't sighting of Quebec. Except but Elliot Jacko's means. And he's most grayness or term that we all know that. Don't think someone did research and he coined the term midlife crisis. Right now, that's part of common vernacular. Right? And t know this midlife crisis. You gotta be research about time. So, uh, this is a quote from him and my favorite cost wants many The enigma of time. I put this in the show notes. The enigma of time is the enigma of life. It is played poets and philosophers from the beginning of civilized stock. For life is lived in time Without time there's no life, but each one lives in his or her own time. No two men slash women living at the same time live at the same time. Each one living in the same moment has his own personal time perspective his own living legally linkage with parcel future the content of which and the scale of which are different between one person and another as their appearance, their single prints, the characteristics, the desires, their very being that different people lives in different time scales or in a different temporal domain, as I shall refer, may not be so self evident. It has profound and far reaching consequences for everyone. For it is through the recognition of different time scales within which with within people live, many of the mysteries of time can be resolved and time may be understood. Um, I don't understand, you know, living in different time scales, so I'm gonna I'm gonna actually This is Great Cove. In 19 time scales, everyone's turn skills have been disrupted in some shape before, but in particular times D'oh! I think it's coming from We touched on this before is that we don't know what the seizures holding gonna hold. Like we don't know. Everyone's like immediate switcher is is kind of shaken. No. So, like that can cause a lot of stress, you know, and dresses how people manifest. This is really different, you know, Like, I could be stressed about the future, you know? And that my sex Why? I'm an asshole. Yeah, but if you even have time, empathy and got attacked, I can safely say everyone is stressed about the future. And we all know stress. Everyone reacts differently. So I'm gonna be empathetic with people that they might being here in the prison.

spk_1:   48:13
Yes. Yeah, And it could be, like, a great opportunity to practice. Um uh, practice coming back. Or at least trying to send so deep in our sensitivity to to our own time scale, instead of relying on these out of structures of the calendar and see, when I go to work, come home and all these things that are slowly falling apart or have for many. And so we feel lost and lonely and maybe purposeless in the world. It's a great invitation. Thio starts a sense. Our own Allen calendar. It's got to listen for the impulsive, Actually, Now it's dinner time. It's not six PM or now is lunchtime. It's not just when it's 12:30 p.m. It's a sense into our bodies clock and our bodies calendar. Yeah, and to becoming a bit more intimate, I suppose, with life itself as David, let's would put it. Do you feel that that

spk_0:   49:06
and only know he likes all these people sometimes what? Just breasts where people beat themselves up. They don't like, know that how much weight they carry. But once you sometimes recognized like oh, shit, I'm carrying a lot of weight. It you basically just go and give yourself a break. Yeah, yeah, yes. And

spk_1:   49:27
your body's telling you toe. Yeah,

spk_0:   49:29
I'm telling him that body spirit just give himself fricking break. All right, So, like a lot of people, this whole life work from home, everyone's gonna work from home. What works from home? That doesn't like what? That you know, what that is like a It's a surface level word that you're using. But people are coming. I have to do school life. You have maybe a partner's time and your work time and your computer time in, like, one bubble of time. You like, you know, this out images. I'm really annoyed by the move work from home thing because it's just sort of it doesn't like into a cab out difficult. It is just like I mean, I'm single with, um I'm still finding it kind of an adjustment period. So, like, it's hard, you know, with kids, right? If you have kids, one of the things that school is like a delicate time schedules calendar their calendars. The teacher does that right? But if you're forced now, have your kids calendar. You know, see them and stuff. That's just a lot of bandwidth. So

spk_1:   50:41
yeah, yeah, Thio, I just the we're in such a time of elevated mental health crisis. I mean, we were already well enough in it before Corona virus, and now we entered this biological health crashes where we need to isolate ourselves, which just yeah, amplified these mental health crisis. Now it is

spk_0:   51:01
your work's important man like connection. We need connection more than ever. And I mean, I keep thinking about this loneliness. Epigram it, dude.

spk_1:   51:12
Oh, yeah, yeah. And I mean, it's yeah, And this time I feel there's going to be, unfortunately, many more suicides. And this is just all my sense. And I am going to be curious and hopefully not horrified to see the, um, citizens afterwards.

spk_0:   51:28
It's inevitable. It's inevitable. Isolation equals suicide. That's just like, yeah,

spk_1:   51:34
and then also a divorce and then

spk_0:   51:35
also baby's bed. But I can't you know that. I mean, this is the the great dilemma, right? Like social isolation to save lives, knowing that isolation is the conditions to create bad mental health. Sometimes, you know, isolation is why you know, men kill themselves by exactly, you know, rule communities. We hear all about that because they're isolated.

spk_1:   52:00
Uh, yeah. And this is funny relationship with masculinity and vulnerability, but that's a whole nother years to come back to time. Empathy is it Then do you feel a worthwhile and I suppose a great practice for one thio consider doing to familiarize themselves with being, I suppose the past oriented having a passage of time said Present Orient Types down and future oriented times step for someone who like myself, I'd say most of my life up until I was maybe 19. Very future orange of time. Step then had some great experiences of being very present oriented on Dhe since then have Bean somewhere in between the two. But I wouldn't say yet that I have fully experienced being a past oriented being. Yes, And so my ability to empathize and have compassion for someone who is past oriented is probably

spk_0:   53:00
actually exactly spot on spot on identifying it. Resource with for the listeners, uh, time psychology. The books called The Time Paradox, uh, is a crappy survey, but it can give you a score of life. Your past presidents in Joe Invitation. So, um yeah, in time psychology. The basic 101 of time Psychology is healthy sales. Actualized individuals tend to have a strong balance of past presidents injured or irritation. That's what the research indicates. So, you know, time psychologists will advocate that they'll look at where your biases are and you do things to sort of balanced that, Yeah, I don't think that's the first part of like being itself empathetic. You know, understanding yourself is just like what you just did. I'm just standing You're owed time makeup psychologically on and then knowing that everyone else has their own time

spk_1:   54:04
And is that just a touch on, I suppose More of your work. A temporal labs. Also working with teams on dhe leadership groups in helping them, I suppose, conceptualize and understand how they convinced a time in a way that is more meaningful and more conducive to there. Isn't obeying is time empathy a big pot off that or what would you say is what the teams are groups, maybe one of the blind spots of teams of groups, that a meaning that their relationship to time is being is actually unproductive.

spk_0:   54:36
Yeah, well, and that's it. That's it. Like I think I know team members. The good team stinks up together, right? Like they kind of did develop their own intelligence, you could say and yeah, a very it just thinking up his trust. I trust this kind of human WiFi and trust each other need to understand the formula and so understand each other's time was a way to build trust um, and then understanding, like, on organization, sense of time, you know, But I I was product about one small term and assume whose the trust us we had with them. Kind of, uh, I was broke. So they did this whole, uh, many, many, many years ago. They did this, like, big strategic five year plan, right? So seen Joe and take it like getting one ball dribble psyched up, seeing God bye bye in to this chance future. And then something happened and that that singer got thrown out the window and along people less, you know, So it's like, Is he gonna ask people to step into the future? You gotta allow them to participated. You know, my features my life in asking team members to being a shared future. Like you're asking people to give their time and Mike time. It's, like, so sacred, you know, it's the only resource. It's nonrenewable. So I think you know a lot of what I do. Is I Just one thing that amazes me in my work was just fine. Like, people have a sense of time. You just give him some basic concepts, and I'm blown away. That people are the second already sensing it because we work within all the times I had some of that. They're like, I don't have to do that much. Yeah,

spk_1:   56:39
I think it's Ah, like the the notion of time We very rarely contemplate it. A lot of our relationship to time is pre contemplated or pre reflective. We don't reflect on time. It just is. But we have a strong sense on them. And so I think even Yeah, yeah.

spk_0:   56:57
Oh, the time is the most commonly used down in English language,

spk_1:   57:00
right? Wow. No, it was never going into ST Oh,

spk_0:   57:06
well, if it is, the word is a doorway where, like if a word is a kind of node of different terms and gauge, if each term is like, provokes that kind of concept a term like it's it's almost like the nugget of a term that lots of terms, you know, that has association networks is everything so like to contemplate. Time is, ah is a doorway to think about so many things. It's just it's just kind of like the opening of the Matrix now walked in the initial contemplation. About time, you'll just I sound like to just go on a plea. Different context. There's people smart people think about time. We just don't think of it explicitly. You like, in the way I know.

spk_1:   57:56
Yeah, yeah, And I imagine it's and this is probably just an invitation for a listener just to simply try and we're not even tried. Just simply notice Time pretty recently noticed how time is moving and in the same way that I find noticing connections really helps me connect and kind of rub up against life itself noticing time. Um, I imagine I have a very similar fact where you start to feel more intimate with your life. They

spk_0:   58:25
developed a medic army, a meta conscious of being aware of how you be aware of that time it builds a temple conscious if you could just be aware of, like, just you know, I talkto initially about the complexities of time everywhere, and it doesn't have to be complicated after nerd out of it about it in the same way that I know. Although I recommend it. Oh, uh, just cause it's joyful and exciting, but I just I just think just a little bit of like like thinking And just seeing how time is a seed back leave on your life Give your just the unawareness, you know?

spk_1:   59:07
Yeah, yeah, Yes. So as we start to close, are there any other beautiful statements or quotes that you had on your board? That would be nice. Kind of nuggets, those little wisdom bombs that we spoke about for people thio to carry away with.

spk_0:   59:23
Firstly, just some more resource is because I just keep thinking about resources. I drink reading right now, uh, so I should just to just say like this is the kind of I don't know, like, I'm always learning that time. So these some of things are kicking out. This is uncontained disconnect, digital disconnection and the experience of time. Cool. This is ah medias digital media Studies professor from the University of Melvin and obviously thinks a lot about digital time. And he didn't experiment where we went up to. I'm not a container ship it for five weeks and reflected on his lived experience of time.

spk_1:   1:0:05
Well, the UN contained So that will be in the show. Notes. We have got plenty of time rash at this moment, so let's sit down and contemplate time itself. American.

spk_0:   1:0:16
Yeah. So it's an interesting I haven't finished it yet, but, uh, it just highlights to me that every space can have an effect on your time. Sort of a nugget sticks about. And this one I just I went to Malaysia, and I Brown was in the bookstore, but this is called time fullness. Ah, um house thinking like a geologist can help him save the world. So kind of basic thesis is that we're not aware of the sort of larger temporal rhythms of our planet. Like we're not fully aware of how old a mountain is, You know, like we're not connected with the depth of the streams of life Austin thought like imagine to walk down the street. And, like, new How old? The tree waas Like that said berth 19 Whatever. I guess. And you see that in some places, like in national parks. But if that was everywhere

spk_1:   1:1:13
Oh, reverence, you'd feel for him.

spk_0:   1:1:18
See, she says here this is no term, but like, uh okay, So her name is Marius board. I'm just going to read this little thing shows this is from its toe time pain, but she says here. Okay. Yeah. Shows us hatches. The author shows us how geologists can chart the points pass. Explain how we can determine the pace of the solid earth, such as mounting building or erosion or comparing unstable rhythms to ocean atmosphere. So all these types of parts of the planet okay, on the different time, right? I mean, really, all here, um, these overlapping types of she says here overlapping types of change in the earth's system some fast, some slow develop, a poly, temporal world view of what she calls time fullness. So it's just being like kind of

spk_1:   1:2:18
Bantul of time.

spk_0:   1:2:19
Said it was ready, being aware that there's always pretty time, so, like she should reflect. The clouds are operating at a certain time. The weather. But mountains are like on an old time scale, or like earthquakes. Earthquakes are kind of a build up of pressure over a long beat on that. Yeah. So I shared those two books. I guess what I'm reading right now. So if you're interested, check it out. I'm gonna read a quote. Should I read? Um, my favorite. Got so many fake quotes. I'll just this one. This is a guy Japanese done and yes, in a coma. But up Japanese, all this and short story writer so touches on similar things we have spoken about. So cosmic time is the same for everyone but human time difference with each person. Time flows in the same way for all human beings. Every human being flows through time in a different way. Uh, well, you know,

spk_1:   1:3:26
let's yet we'll definitely put a couple of them in the show notes as well. It, uh, brings me as soon as I'm connecting it. Thio conversation was having with a friend the other day. We're talking about the infidelity in our experiences and that no. One, everyone's internal experience is It's so completely different. Everyone else's and therein lies our inherent loneliness. We will never actually feel the feeling of being experienced because no one can experience what we're experiencing. And we also if we think we know what someone is experiencing a complete idiot because no one can actually experience somebody else. Therefore, we completely alone in the world. Um,

spk_0:   1:4:04
I call that exquisite loneliness. Is that beautiful? It's beautiful. It's like we live in our own universe, our own internal universe. interacting with shared universe. And that's our snores alone. Yeah, think about it.

spk_1:   1:4:21
But then it's also calls in together. Yeah, and it doesn't mean we stop trying to connect. Not at all. That means which is like the act of a therapist is to try and get as close as we can to giving someone the experience of being experienced to get as close as we can, touching there and experience in a way to cease that kind of loneliness that they feel like they're being heard and felt or seen in a way that no one else had being present enough to just yet. And so it can really That's a time

spk_0:   1:4:51
more, since that may be loneliness is like not being a stranger to your own original sort of sensing.

spk_1:   1:5:00
Uh huh.

spk_0:   1:5:01
Like, you don't know your place. Like what? It makes you lonely. Yeah. Yeah, that becomes a crosses are negative Loneliness rather than like an exquisite mommy. Yeah. Yeah.

spk_1:   1:5:13
Rich like to be the difference between being alone and being lonely. Like to be alone. To be okay with that is to still feel like intimate with your surroundings. Doesn't have to be. Are they other people as humans is that you can feel completely intimate with your ecology with the chair with senses that to be it is that curiosity and that kind of living with the question for me that helps me feel at home. In my in the world, there's a quote

spk_0:   1:5:39
You said it once but love the world as

spk_1:   1:5:42
long as we identify only without humanity will forever feel lonely. But when we start to identify with our ecology and with the world and laugh and maybe time passing through us itself, we will never feel a lot or lonely. I mean, because we start to identify with the greater title and seasonal rhythms of life that are actually animating. Um oh, that's an apology. So yeah. Incoming thio to wrap it up into some form of, um, yeah, an invitation or something For those listening. What would you like to leave people with a question? Is that quote something that you found useful on your journey ruin with time?

spk_0:   1:6:35
Well, I'm going to speak to what's going on right now, lying and just maybe like house time feeling for you right now, you know? And I say that just and it might be complete chaos, you know, like, But sometimes I think just observing what's bringing attention and time is a nasty ground yourself. It doesn't take it away. God, yeah, Just like, how does your time feel right now? Are you scared about the future? Are, you know, doing prison? What are you doing in the present? Crashed in a mean or like, you know, has the news shaping because it isn't so far. So just yeah, I'm feeling about right now because it is a unique historical time. And so what's one? You know, they said it's a one in a century kind of events that just have a time frame it like that. So, yeah, just think about how times affecting you in this day and age and just start there. That might give you a place toe, maybe some empowerment. Just a way of navigating this, its age, it just very hard. It's gonna be great. Hard, Something critical.

spk_1:   1:7:54
Yeah, And in sitting with that question ourselves also then extending that question in a relationship to others, knowing that other people are also experiencing time very, very differently now. And so how can we sit with another and be so totally open to them being pulled into posterity, intonation or being propelled into future orientation. And no matter whether you, how can you meet them and also be we own a way we are,

spk_0:   1:8:19
and I think, useful if you want. You have here the personality psychological test type like it's useful just to know what your biases are with past, present future, like that's destiny useful. That's always useful.

spk_1:   1:8:33
Yeah, and even posture. Aly, I know, like sitting in meditation. I used to lean forward in my posture a fair bit and whether this is right are true are not but the teacher that are sitting with just cute that if you notice yourself leaning forward, start to ponder on whether you have future orientation. What does it feel like to sit sent it? Oh, if you're scratching back, how is your posture? Is like the of your time orientation, which I was curious

spk_0:   1:8:59
grow. That's interesting, because when I meditate and I meditate like 30 minutes a day, you know, it's a wall on my back, my back straight who don't know what that says about.

spk_1:   1:9:11
Yeah, so let's just put it in there that maybe things don't have to mean anything. Yeah, maybe. But also that medical community of exercise of noticing the, um I suppose the ways in which we behave in the asymmetry think just that reflective thought is

spk_0:   1:9:30
useful and me making, even if it's like just b s. Like it's useful to just play with your thoughts. You're in a kaleidoscope, you know, just, like is even getting interesting lenses. Yeah.

spk_1:   1:9:45
Yeah. So how can people connect with you? Are, uh, yeah, connect with your work and ask further questions if they got to a job.

spk_0:   1:9:53
Yes. Oh, um uh, recommend following the mine. Got a website, Any hand dot com. Oh, are you talked about Dr Time? But I haven't told her ego online presence. So it's just act Dr Time underscore on Twitter or at Young's. I used Twitter lots when I've got a instagram doctor time as well. But anyone who's listening to this immediately kind of this time of year, April I'm really kind of planning to step up my online presence in the next few months after kind of sort of being dormant for a while. So yeah, you'll find me online.

spk_1:   1:10:36
Great awesome. Thank you for taking the time. All right. Great. Yeah. Love you shot. Thank you.

spk_0:   1:10:49
Thanks for having me on.

spk_1:   1:10:51
All right. All right. I What questions are still wearing inside you. What? Landed and rung loudly for you. Just take a moment. Thank you for joining me for another life affirming and enriching conversation. Each one light torched guide us on our path to being in right relationship with ourselves as we walk with on the ecology is that we're very much about him. I trust this is gifted. Do something to place in your talk it to support you in your journey and your leadership. Make sure that you go ahead and connect with me and leave any comments on my Facebook or Instagram page at El Jeffrey A l baby double F d r and check out the links in the short nights at www dot tell Jeffrey dot com until next time, remember, we can't rush our way back. Noticed connections intend to the sweet spaces between lots of love