Wormholes, Artemis 2 Updates & The Einstein Cross Explained

and then drew a circle around it. That's all coming up on this edition of space nuts.

Professor Fred Watson: I am, yes. Uh, sunny Melbourne, which isn't at the moment, although it was briefly this morning. Four seasons in one day is what they say about Melbourne. Uh, reputation for that. Professor Fred Watson: I think we' already this week. So, um, the conference I'm at is at Deakin University here in Melbourne. It is called Astro. Edu or Astro Edu, um, for Astronomy Education

2025. And it's actually an international conference, Uh, I think I'm right in saying it's sponsored by the International Astronomical Union. Um, so it's a conference of international astronomy educators. And so quite a lot of it is about the theory of education, as, you know, applied to astronomy education. Quite a lot of it is about the practise of astronomy education. So there are real teachers here, uh, who teach kids, um, you know, from kindergarten to year 12, uh, and university as well.

Um, and um, one or two astronomers as well. And we're there because we're interested in education. I'm, um, only an amateur educator, but a professional astronomer. So my talk yesterday was about the possibilities for using mega constellations in astronomy education. Because there's quite a number of ideas that come out of, you know, what we and you and I talk about routinely. Uh, the mega constellations, um, a lot of astronomy

in that. And in terms of, um, trying to, uh, perhaps, uh, provide some, um, background in astronomy education that might otherwise, um, be missed. Um, and I'm thinking of things like, you know, how you measure the brightness of the satellites. We use the star magnitudes the same as we do in astronomy. Uh, why satellites are bright themselves, why radio telescopes are at great risk from satellite, uh, constellations, all of the above.

Um, but um, my talk aside, which was a minor contribution to this conference, there have been some fantastic presentations, um, really encouraging about the state of astronomy education in lands as far apart as Chile, uh, and uh, Germany and Belgium, Sweden, Portugal, North America, Canada. Inspiring presentation from Canada this morning. Lovely chat from an educator in Hawaii, uh, who I talk to later because I

used to work in Hawaii a lot. So a lot of the folklore tales in astronomy he was aware of and some, what some of his colleagues were as well. But what was really nice was getting a shout out from uh, from a couple of, particularly a couple of this morning's presenters. They did get a keynote presentation, um, um, Mari Timms and

Sandra Woodward. Um, uh, um, m mentioned, um, you know, stuff that I do and that we do, uh, including a very nice shout out about space nuts, which apparently is um, very much a source of inspiration to talk about with, with kids in class. Oh, wonderful. Professor Fred Watson: Maybe we are useful after all, Andrew. Possibly. Maybe we do contribute a little bit to education. Or maybe it's pseudoscience. Professor Fred Watson: No, it's not pseudoscience. No, it's not, not at all.

Professor Fred Watson: It's just um, you know, it's our take on the universe which might not necessarily be the same as some other people's, but I think we're reasonably near the mark. So that's so rare in science. Frick. Professor Fred Watson: Yes. Um, yeah. So that's why I'm here in Melbourne in a hotel room. Jordy is um, about a thousand kilometres away, so you might not hear him today. I think we will hear him. Professor Fred Watson: I think we will probably.

Oh, uh, wonderful. I'm glad it's going well. And uh, a lot of people there. Professor Fred Watson: Uh, there are 81 participants. Yes. Uh, some of them are online but uh, there's quite a good healthy handful. What, what I also really like about it is the gender balance. 50. 50. Excellent. Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. 50. 50. Professor Fred Watson: Um, that's um. Yeah, I think that's a very important aspect of it.

Yeah, I, we can't claim M.50.50, but this week we're running in Dubbo, uh, the uh, New South Wales Veterans State Golf Championships. Professor Fred Watson: Oh yes, you said you were. And we've got about 100 and let's say 120. 130 participants and about nearly 50 of them are women. So. Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. That's pretty good. Professor Fred Watson: That is great. Yeah, I'm having a crack at the championship. I've got, uh. I think the funny story is, uh, I said to someone, look, I've

signed up for the state championships. I don't know why. And he said to me, oh, no, no, you gotta play. And I said, why do you think that? He said, because they need at least 40 players. Thanks. Thanks for the vote of confidence. I've actually played two rounds and I've done all right. Professor Fred Watson: Oh, that's great. I'm not going to win. There's a couple of guns that are just. But I'm hoping to finish top 10 state championship.

Professor Fred Watson: Top 10 will be pretty damn good for golf, which is not an easy game. No, but aren't you organising the event? Isn't this a conflict of interest? Uh, yeah, I'm part of the committee, but, uh, my only major role is to emcee the presentation night. Professor Fred Watson: So if you're getting an award. Uh, I won't be giving the awards. I'm just the mc. But I. Look, that's not even going to be a problem. Not unless I shoot the lights out in the

final round tomorrow. But we'll see. Professor Fred Watson: Well, you might do. You might. You never do that. Putting the lights out so was a good move. Yes, Golf's like that. Could go the other way as well. I've got to keep that in mind. Now we, we uh, better get down to why we're here and uh, that is to talk about things that are happening in astronomy and space science.

And one of the things we've talked about, uh, on a fairly regular basis is, uh, these, uh, NASA missions to the moon, known as the Artemis project. Um, Artemis 1 has been, and done its thing, ah, a lap of the moon with nobody on board or maybe a couple of plush toys. Um, but, uh, now they're saying that they think Artemis 2 will be on its way, uh, at the latest. April, but possibly sooner. Professor Fred Watson: Well, it was, um, no sooner than April. That

was the deal, uh, so far. But the news we've had today is that the launch window, uh, in fact is being brought forward and could be as early as the 5th of February. Yes. Professor Fred Watson: So we're looking now at ah, Artemis flying much earlier than we had expected. Artemis 2. Um, and I think one of the reasons for that is that we've, We've been seeing news

reports. I'm sure you've caught them as well, Andrew, that um, the hardware is ready to go, that the, you know, the space launch system, which will take astronauts to the moon. And um, the, the Orion capsule, it's all ready to go. Um, and bearing in mind that this, this mission is essentially a Repeat of the 11-22-2022 mission, uh, which was a 25 day mission, it's actually a shorter, shorter version of it. Uh but Artemis 1, um, basically did what

Artemis 2 will do. It launched and uh, sent this, the capsule into orbit around the moon, um taking it actually quite a lot further away than the moon's distance, um, and then bringing it back re entering and picking it up in, in the ocean. So that was a very successful um, dress rehearsal for what Artemis 2

will be like. And I'm sure the four astronauts who are going to fly uh, trained up to the gunnels, uh and it will be really great to see them stepping into the spacecraft in February I think. Yes, yes. Won't that be exciting? And the first time in 54 years is it uh, we've sent people to the moon? Professor Fred Watson: Uh, yes, um, well 1970. No, 72 was the last. 72, that's right, yes it's, it will be 54. Yes,

you're right, 54 years. Um, um, the thing that, a point I didn't make is that um, these, the astronauts will not land on the moon. That's Artemis 3. Artemis 2 is purely going around the moon, uh, and going through all the required manoeuvres that will be needed when um, they actually do go to the moon in Artemis 3, for example, um, this idea of you know, undocking spacecraft ah from a, from a module, a service module, turning it around to be facing the way you want it to and then

re docking again. That kind of manoeuvre very much the stocking trade of the Apollo era astronauts. But of course now we've got new technology, quite uh, different technology. Um, a quick shout out to the crew. Uh, Christina Koch, Richard Glover. Victor Glover. Not Richard Glover, Victor Glover, sorry Victor. Um, uh, Reed Wiseman and Jeremy Hansen. They are the ah, the Crew of Artemis

2. Heavily in training I'm sure still and all ready to take their um, their Orion capsule around the moon to give us a fabulous view. So yes, the point um, I think that you're making is that this is the first time in 54 years that astronauts will have gone out of low Earth orbit which is where they've been uh, in the

International Space Station. We haven't had anybody going, venturing out and of course when you do that, when you go between the moon and the Earth, you're in what we might call deep space from A point of view of a, uh, spacecraft, uh, which means that you're uh, subject to the sun's radiation and all of that other stuff. And uh. So there'll be lots and lots of medical work done, um, on analysing how these astronauts have reacted to that and responded to that.

Yes, yes. And uh. I believe that they will be, um. Travelling further than any other human being has ever gone in terms of space travel. Because they'll be travelling 9,200 kilometres past the moon. Professor Fred Watson: Yes, that's right, yeah. Yeah. They still, they still won't be the most isolated human humans in history. Michael Collins still retains that because he was by himself, uh, in orbit around the

moon. And uh, I believe in his mission, Apollo 11, he was further out than any of the others that were on the command module. Professor Fred Watson: Yes, I think that's correct. I mean all the. All the Apollo, uh, uh, missions had a command, a command module pilot. Uh, as you said, Michael Collins was the one for Apollo 11. But I think you're also right that the orbit that Apollo 11 was uh, in was further out from the moon's surface.

Then that's how I understand it. However, the difference with this one is every, uh, other mission we've sent to the moon has had three astronauts. This has got four. Professor Fred Watson: Yes. Um, so that's a first. Professor Fred Watson: Yep, it is. That's. That's right. That's a big first. New technology. It's a much more spacious capsule, the Orion capsule, uh, which I think, uh, will really be, um. It'll be luxury compared with. With the Apollo. Apollo capsules.

I imagine so. And we wish them well. Uh, three representatives of NASA and one, uh, Jeremy Hansen from the Canadian Space Agency. So that's. That's pretty good too. Ah, we'll watch with interest. And as you said, Fred Watson, all the gear is ready to go. This, uh, space launch system, the Orion capsule, which had a couple of glitches coming back to Earth, uh, on Artemis 1. They've fixed that. I think it overheated. Uh, and a few other things that they've

sorted out. So they're good to go. So, um. Yeah, just waiting for the right. Right weather and the right data to set off. So, um, yes, there'll be more to talk about as we get into the early months of 2026 for the Artemis 2 launch. This is Space Nuts. Andrew Dunkley. Oh, if you want to read about that, of course, uh, it's everywhere but BBC, uh, dot com has a good story about it.

So, uh, we've had access, ah, to the gravitational wave sky, if I can put it that way, for 10 years now. And in fact, um, the first gravitational wave signal was uh, on the 14th of September, 2015, Marnie's birthday, as it happens. Uh, so the LIGO people, the large Interferometric. Sorry, a Laser Interferometric Gravitational Wave Observatory, uh, they have been celebrating their 10th anniversary since operations came in. Um, they have been joined by Virgo, uh,

another gravitational wave observatory. And since then Kagura, which is in Japan. Uh, so, um, these, uh, three facilities are currently routinely looking at gravitational wave science. They're seeing exploding or colliding neutron stars coming in ten a penny. Um, uh, however, this, and this goes back to when it was just LIGO and Virgo. In 2019, there was a very, very different gravitational wave event detected by uh, uh, the two interferometers.

Um, you and I have spoken before about the characteristic sound, uh, because it is in the audio frequency regime. Characteristic, uh, sound of two neutron stars colliding or a neutron star and a black hole or two black holes. It's that chirp sound. It's uh, with the frequency increasing as these things spin together and then just vanishes when they collide. It's when they undergo what's called the ring down where the two black holes actually merge. Yeah, but this one was

nothing like that. And I'm not going to impersonate what it sounded like, but it was more of a crack. Uh, was it, Was it, Was it. Professor Fred Watson: No, it could be something completely different because I'm sure there's a joke about Uranus you can make with that, but I'm not, I'm not even going to go there. So, uh, the, um. Yeah, so it was more of a crack. It was, it was less than, uh, a tenth

of a second in duration. These normal signals take a few seconds to build up the frequency and then they disappear with that, you know, that chirp. Um, but this one was over in 10 seconds. So, um, there has been work done on trying to explain this. It's got a name. All these things have a name that starts with GW and ends with the date spelled backwards. Uh, so this was GW190521 for the date, which was the 21st of May,

uh, 2019. And, um, the best interpretation, which I guess is what you might call the standard picture, is that. Yes, it is. Two black hairs. Two black hairs.

a name that tells it like it is. Um, so, uh, that's the standard interpretation. But there's a new paper that has come from, um, astronomy, um, astronomers, physicists actually, uh, which is what you need to be to do gravitational waves, I guess. But astrophysics is probably the real name. A physicist in China, University of Chinese

Academy of Sciences. Uh, we've seen a new interpretation which is that, uh, what this event depicted was not two black holes colliding in our universe, but in another universe. Whoa. And what we're hearing, or what we're sensing is the gravitational disturbance, uh, of an event in another universe that comes through a collapsing wormhole that was, um, basically, um, formed in the merger and collapsed after the end of it. So, um, that's a huge claim.

Professor Fred Watson: Yes, it is, isn't it? So let me quote from Michel's article, um, in Science Alert. To be clear, the black hole collision right here in our own universe is still the preferred interpretation of the strange signal. But that preference is not strong enough to rule out the wormhole model entirely. Uh, and that's, um, basically a quote from the. The preprint that these, um, uh, scientists in, In China have published. Um, so it's, you know, it's, it's.

It's. It's a quite a remarkable thing. Uh, Michel's article is relatively short, although there's quite a lot of detail in there. Uh, but the bottom line is, you know, if. If it was. If that was the correct interpretation, uh, of, uh, GW190521, uh, and anything else we found that was like it. If that was the, uh, the confirmed interpretation that it was a temporary wormhole, allowing us to sort of hear the, uh, the echo of. Excuse me, I'm gonna sneeze. Andrew. Sorry about that.

It's. That Time of the year over here. Professor Fred Watson: I think that was a, I think that was a wormhole collapsing. Um, yeah, it wouldn't, it wouldn't. If you could, if it, if that was the preferred interpretation, it wouldn't just suggest that these things exist. Wormholes have been a feature of science fiction as well as science writing. The, the fact that they theoretically could exist but we've got no evidence of them. Uh, but what she says is it wouldn't just confirm

the existence of these, these things. Um, it also gives uh, us a, ah, a new way of, of investigating their properties. Um, and you know, that might lead to a whole new branch of astronomy, wormhole studies. Well, wouldn't that be extraordinary? It would be, but it also opens up um, another thing that's only theoretical

multiple universe theory. So if we've detected the collision of two black holes in another universe and detected it through the opening up of a temporary wormhole, I mean that's a double banger. Professor Fred Watson: Uh, that is, uh, except that you would need to rule out the possibility that this wormhole was linking two bits of our own universe because that's one of the things that has been suggested. But maybe the Chinese paper,

uh, actually uh, has ruled that out. I'm not sure because I haven't looked at the preprint. Um, but yes, uh, it is, is really rather remarkable. Uh, what the uh, scientists in uh, China have done is basically modelled what you would get if you had a gravitational wave signal from another universe coming through a wormhole. Um, and they've modelled that and they've compared that with this particular event, um, and uh, reasonably happy that their model

actually fits the data. Um, in fact they say um, that uh, you know, it's, it's comparable with it. I don't think it's as accurate as the black hole merger waveform, uh, which is, would be a conventional view that you've got two black holes that have merged together in our universe. Um, it's uh, that's apparently just a very slightly better fit to the observed signal than their wormhole model. But it's still a

possible scenario. So uh, I think uh, this will be uh, very much uh, a pathway for further investigation of wormholes. Uh, just generally. Um, so what should we expect if wormholes do exist? What should we expect? It's not, it's all very well just talking about space worms I imagine. Yeah. Well there you go. You can, I think you can get um, tablets for those. Uh, anyway, um, it's, yes, it's, it's a really interesting piece of work

obviously. Uh, quite controversial, quite attention grabbing, headline grabbing.

Professor Fred Watson: Not necessarily. Because if you're in the other side of the world they'd write to you and say look, you've just got to use your wormhole machine and. Yeah, well, yeah, that's a possibility. All this exciting stuff. Uh, if you'd like to read about that, you can do that at the Science Alert website, sciencealert.com and read Michelle's article. Or you can go to the source, the preprint server on

archive. This is Space Nuts with Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson Watson.

Professor Fred Watson: Well that's kind of what you have to do. Yes, uh, in uh, this case, uh, the observations of the Einstein cross weren't made with visible light telescopes or infrared telescopes, but with our old friend alma, the Atacama Large Millimetre Submillimeter Array, which we're more used to seeing, uh, connected to images of protoplanetary discs and a high frequency radio radiation from protoplanetary discs is something that is very much the stocking trade of alma.

But now they've been observing, I mean they do observe galaxies as well. What they've observed is an Einstein cross. This is usually uh, it's four images of one object in a shape a little bit like the Southern Cross in our, ah, Southern Hemisphere sky, um, which are all images of the same object. Uh, but there's something intervening, there's something between them that creates a gravitational lens, uh, that separates, splits the light coming from the distant

object. And uh, as it passes through the gravitational lens in the foreground, uh, it's split into four components forming a cross the reason why this one is particularly rare is that it has a central image as well. It's a five image Einstein cross. And I think there's only one other one that is actually known, uh,

with gravitational uh, lensing. Um, and so uh, yeah the story is that um, this object, uh, the Einstein cross is the multiple images of a uh, background galaxy, uh, known as hers three or her S3. Probably her S3. Um, that's a uh, galaxy which is 11.6 billion light years away. So we've got a look back time of 1.6 billion years. Well on the way to

the beginning of the universe. Yes. And it's gone past uh, a group of galaxies, a sort of cluster of galaxies uh, which are in the foreground and ah, they're only 7.8 billion light years from us, which is still a staggering distance. But that is the gravity uh, source that is bending the space and forming these multiple images. Uh, and so um, it tells us about both objects, it tells us about the distant galaxy of which this is a, a uh,

multiple image. It tells us about the distribution of matter in the foreground galaxy cluster. And the really interesting thing is that what they've shown uh, the scientists who've done this work, um, it's ah, a Parisian group based in Paris, uh, or the leader is um, based in Paris. Uh, what they've shown is that the sort of centre of mass of the galaxy cluster is not, is off to one side of where the galaxies

are. And that in itself is peculiar because we interpret that as saying that the most of the mass in this cluster is in the form of dark matter. Uh and it's the dark matter clump uh, that is kind of offset from the galaxies that we can see.

That's not um, unique. There are other circumstances like that in the universe but this is quite unusual that you know we've got an Einstein cross created by a cluster of galaxies whose centre of mass, if I can put it that way, is off to one side because of the distribution of dark matter around it. Fascinating. I suppose it also begs the question that uh, we're looking at the same thing in five different timelines. Professor Fred Watson: Yes, that's right. And that actually adds

uh, something really interesting to this. Um, uh, and certainly in the early days of these kinds of observations, Einstein crosses. And it goes back actually to the 1970s. I remember when the first double quasars were being observed and they're formed by a similar process. There's something in between the quasar and yourself. The quasars are kind of delinquent galaxy,

uh, that's multiplying the image. Um, there's a, um, a quote from, uh, Tanu Dylan, who's at Washington University in St. Louis, wasn't, uh, involved in this research. But a very nice quote that says the magnification may allow unusually detailed studies of a star burst galaxy at redshift 3. And that's redshift 3 is what tells you it's, uh, that far away.

11.5 billion years, light years, uh, when the universe was less than a fifth of its current age, including its gas, star formation and possible outflows. And what you really need, um, is some visible variation in the light of the source galaxy because the light path, uh, to form each of these five individual images of that object is different. And so you expect these to be delayed. Uh, and in fact, that was the

thing about the double quasars. You could see variability in an object which was mimicked by the second image of it. This is how we knew that there were two images of the same thing back in the day. Uh, uh, an object would get brighter, the quasar would get brighter, and there'd be a delay between one image and the other. If you could do that with five images, then you can learn an awful lot. Um, there is another quote, uh, from one of the investigators.

Usually people use quasars, uh, for this purpose of time delay, uh, since they naturally vary, uh, very rapidly as a function of time. But, uh, uh, her, uh, s. Uh three is star forming, raising the prospect of detecting a supernova, uh, whose light would arrive at each image at different times, giving the time delay. And from that you can actually work out what the Hubble constant is. And the Hubble constant is still, uh, a topic of discussion. We've talked about the Hubble

tension several times. This will give us another way of measuring that, and that will be very interesting. That would indeed be quite exciting. Gee, we've covered some really interesting stories today, Fred Watson, haven't we? Just if you'd like to read more about that particular Einstein cross story, you can do it@skyandtelescope.org or you can read the, uh, full paper which has been published in the Astrophysical Journal. Uh, we are just about done, Fred Watson.

Before we finish, I might just direct, uh, people to the Space Nuts podcast group. This is a Facebook page that was created by our audience and has, uh, quite a few thousand people. Uh, 2.7 is 20, uh, 700 members. It's got now, um, people who discuss, uh, science and astronomy together, publish stories that, uh, they are interested in, um, ask questions of each other, try to solve all the mysteries of the universe. Uh, it's a great little group, so if you'd like to join, it's

Facebook. Uh, um, yes, the Space Nuts podcast group. That's what you've got to put in your Facebook search engines. Uh, Space Nuts page podcast group. There's also an official Space Nuts Facebook group if you want to join that as well. I think it's got around, um, about the same number of members. Probably all the same people. Very likely, um, quite a few of them anyway. Professor Fred Watson: Yes, I'm sure that's right. I am. I'll check that out. I'm not a big Facebook

user, but once in a while I go online. I have to first of all find out once again what my password is because it keeps, seems to keep getting changed. So, um, I'll get into Facebook, um, or Face Ache as I call it. It's what my dad used to call me. Yeah, um, Facebook. Um, and have a look at SpaceNuts podcast group and see what they're saying. And I've got a shout out to our administrators who do a great job of keeping

it all in ship shape condition. So thank you, Paul, thank you Misty, and thank you Steve and everybody else who's involved. There's a, there's a few people who look after it for us voluntarily too, I might say. Um, so, yeah, excellent, Fred Watson, we're done. Thank you very, very much. Professor Fred Watson: Uh, it's a pleasure and good to see you again, Andrew. And we'll talk again very soon, I think. Very soon, I expect. Professor Fred Watson: Yes. Uh, Professor Fred Watson Watson, astronomer

at large. And thanks to Huw in the studio, who couldn't be with us today. His, uh, his dog Einstein was naughty. He's very cross with Einstein. Professor Fred Watson: Oh, geez. And from me, Andrew Dunkley, thanks for your company. Catch you on the next episode as well. Space Nuts. Bye Bye.