Zero Gravity, Zero Limits - Jana Spruce, Spruce Consulting Group, Apr 25

Good day. Welcome to Space Insiders. I'm Tony Sewell.

And I'm Rob Ruyak.

And welcome to episode number two. How's it going, Rob?

Great, Tony. How are you doing? I really had fun last time. Was great.

Yeah, it was good. I'm in detox. I'm in butter and patisserie detox after the family trip to Paris last week. How was Space Symposium?

It was really fun. It's always fun. The weather was really good this year. It was great to see some friends, great to see some people that you and I have known a long time in the industry. So yeah, I always look forward to it every year. It was fun.

Awesome. And we got a really interesting guest today, Jana Spruce. You want to tell us a little bit about Jana?

Yeah, I'm really excited about Jana actually. So I met her a couple years ago. She was a VP of spacecraft, which I thought was a really cool title. And I met her through another individual I know really well at Firefly. And it was at their ribbon cutting for a manufacturing facility outside of Austin for several of their launch vehicles and great person, incredible background, Collins Aerospace, worked on space suit technology and was one of the lead managers for the Blue Ghost Lander,

which our

flight just successfully landed a couple months ago. Very excited about her. Now she's got her own consulting business. So she's focused a lot on her experience working at large companies and then startups. Wealth of experience, everything from engineering all the way to leading teams in that kind of environment. I'm really excited for us to talk to her.

Yeah, awesome. I can't wait to meet her. So before we get to the interview, anything sort of stand out to you at Space Symposium last week?

Yeah, there's a lot. I think the first thing that you could really feel and you would hear from a lot of people was this rebalancing of The US defense priorities, right, on a global scale that we're all aware of. It's right in front of us in our face all the time, every day. And a lot of discussions this year was less about the aspiration of government being able to access commercial technologies and smaller companies specifically to actually really starting to do that. So for example, there were a few panels that included small satellite companies such as Hawkeye and Astronis that talked a little bit more about how they're actually trying to go after and support programs across both The US as well as international governments for national security and defense.

Yeah, that's good.

Given the current climate. So yeah, it was a very interesting learning experience.

Nice. I'm glad you mentioned Astronus because theirs was one of An announcement from them was one of a couple of stories that caught my eye that I wanted to talk about, and maybe we'll get a chance to pick Jenna's brain on this a little bit. There were two announcements. One, Rocket Lab announced the award of positions on two major US and UK DoD hypersonics programs. So this is another example of their, I guess, their transformation into a multifaceted aerospace business.

Yeah. No, I'm glad you brought it up, Tony. Because yeah, and I saw Rocket Lab stock even yesterday was up like 10%. I think it's so great to see these commercial companies winning these contracts. Know, because again, like I was mentioning with Space Symposium in the previous years, there was a lot of conversation about how like we must figure out how to change and reform our procurement processes, regulations to actually access these types of companies.

All right, cool. Well, the timing to talk to Jan is going to be really good. Someone that's been user at Boeing and Collins and also with Firefly and now consulting for herself. This should be a really good discussion. So how about we bring in Jana? All right, welcome back. And we're here today with Jana Spruce. Hi, Jana. How are you? Great to meet you.

Hey, thanks. Good to see you, Tony and Rob.

Hey, Jana.

Absolutely. Rob was really kind to introduce us and we're really excited about the discussion today.

Yeah, thanks for having me.

So before we get into things, I'd love just to hear just the sixty second story on your career, what you do, we can go from there.

Yeah, sure. I guess I'll start out with, I grew up in a family of engineers, so engineering was kind of the way to go. And as you know, being curious in my younger days, always was interested in how things work. And so space seemed to be the biggest challenge at that time. So I went into space industry, got aerospace engineering undergraduate degree and went to work on spacecraft.

That's awesome. You've got a really interesting background. I mean, similar to me, of you got start in government and then sort of moved into, and sort of with the Naval Air Warfare Centre, and then ultimately in the last, one of the last key roles you had was as a VP at Firefly. What were some of the key moments that shaped the trajectory of your career?

Yeah, I think really it was inspiring to me early on to be exposed to such complex programs and real inspiring engineering feats, right, of what we're able to do both with aircraft systems, with some of the things that they test out at China Lake were pretty amazing to just be exposed to. I started out there in my high school. So we had a great program where my junior year, was going out after school. I worked out on base all summer. And then my senior year, spent the last half of the day was out at work.

Yeah, I think what's really interesting, Jana, for attracted you to this was the complexity of all of the topics, right? All these different systems and systems of systems, but sometimes there's like a long it's a lot of delayed gratification, right? There's aspects of it, where you see it work, but there's other aspects where you might not see the final completed system over a very long period of time. So I guess where I'm kind of thinking, was there somebody or one particular icon or idol that you had that drove you to stick with it, it attracted you more and more to this and maybe even led you to think more about the business side of this?

Yeah, I think probably the biggest influence for me would be my dad. He really taught me the importance of appreciating everybody's input, everybody's contribution. And that's where you really start to see that complexity. You look at how important it is, even the small things, even as you're looking at your team, from a leadership perspective, everybody from the janitors to the marketing people to your first line engineers, everybody's got an important role to play and bringing that in, I think helps with that delayed gratification, because you start to see how important all those pieces are. And that sort of led me to one of the things that I've had a lot of fun really helping champion is what I call the super tech.

How is that transition from big company like Collins really fast moving startup like Firefly. I mean, there's pros and cons with both. Online you've got resources, more resources than you can count, but on the other side, they're moving fast. I'm still thinking about that, watching the video from that Blue Ghost lander. My background is satcom and geospatial, so I'm really interested in the impact of space on the ground.

So Tony, you are interested in it. If it sent chills down your spine, you are interested

in it. Well, yeah. Yeah.

Well, I'm really interested in the fun part of space. So Tony is interested in the less fun part. I'm interested in the fun part.

I don't want to strap myself to a rocket and shoot myself into space. That's not one of I'm

not saying I want

to do that.

There's some unsexy parts of being an astronaut, will say. But as far as your question about big company versus small company, to me, I think a lot of it boils down to the incentives in a big company. The leadership incentives in a big company are to maintain control. You've got a large group of people and making sure they're all going in the right direction and nobody's violating any rules, nobody's screwing anything up that you should have known better. So they tend to be very interested in control and predictability and very low risk tolerance in a big company.

Yeah. So how the one thing that I was talking to Tony about before and you and I talked about this, Jan, I know I've met you a little while ago. When you're facing such a complex engineering task like Blue Ghost as we say before, maybe even the space suit technology developed at Collins. I mean, are things that you don't really have a long history of proven successes, right? How do you break something like that up into manageable parts, especially in a startup?

I think the way you look at it is still very similar. There's a couple things that I've found is engineers, especially maybe your earlier engineers are a little bit nervous and they'll want to go do the easy things first. And that's really the wrong approach. The important thing is to really push your team to tackle the hardest things first. Go prototype it because you'll learn more from the hardware or the software itself, right?

mean, speaking of hard things, Rob and I used to work with a gentleman, Darryl Shook, who worked extensively with astronauts and you've been involved in advanced space suit technology. I think a lot of people probably don't have perspective on how challenging that sort of project is. It's not the sort of space suits we saw from the Blue Origin activity that everyone's talking about this week, different sort of space suit. But I'd love to And you sort of alluded to some of the unsexiness of being an astronaut. I'd love to just hear a couple of anecdotes from sort of your involvement in the space suit side of things.

Sure, yeah. I mean, that was one of the really fun parts of working this space suit program was we had a couple of astronauts there to sort of help and consult and some of the smart guys ever. But yeah, when the realization hits like, oh, you have to wear a diaper in a space suit. Maybe that doesn't sound quite as sexy and fun as I But there's just so many technical challenges with suits. Every choice you make has downstream impacts.

% oxygen? With 100% oxygen.

Or do you want to them outside where they're exposed to the radiation?

Oh my

gosh. The vacuum and the temperature swings. Just everything is between a hard choice and a really hard choice. So it made it really interesting to work with. There's just so many different aspects, even down to how do you choose to do redundancy, right?

You've talked a lot about culture and sort of establishing that culture within companies and sort of integrating the different functions. And this is obviously a big part of what you do today. Can you explain how you assess company culture and how you implement culture in sort of in practice in what you do today?

Yeah, sure. There's a method that I've used for evaluating culture. And it's really helpful both when you're coming into a new culture. It's also very helpful if you're doing like an M and A type activity where you want to merge two groups together and trying to figure out where are the gaps, where are the big differences between those two groups. There's, it's so important too.

So do you have any advice, Jana, after all this experience? And I know now that you're doing more and more consulting for companies, whether it's large or small. Do you have any advice for people that work in organizations around how they can actually influence some of the culture, right? It's really difficult. I think at times, maybe even if you work at a small company and you have a particular, let's say, a principle around how you actually come to a conclusion or make an agreement on a particular decision.

team that I was on, we did something that I think worked really well. We had a small team. We had them kind of separated because we wanted to follow a little bit different rules with that group than maybe the rest of the company was allowed to do. But we started coming up with kind of some little mantras and we would then just print them out and put them up on the wall and then we would reference them pretty regularly. So things like more accurate isn't always better.

That's really good. As an engineer, it's really difficult to make that transition from I think as an engineer, you want to have all the data, and then you wanna make a decision based on all the data. And I remember when I first started as a software engineer and I transitioned to consulting, I went from writing code to writing PowerPoint decks. And I remember I was in a foreign country, first of all, so the culture was a challenge. But I struggled a lot in making recommendations for the client because I just could not get access to all the data.

Yeah, one thing I was just gonna add too, and I thought it was interesting, I think being able to easily articulate the culture is really important. I think Rob and I have experience of being in Amazon and everything is anchored around leadership principles. And they're very easy to understand and repeat. So I think being able to actually have principles that are used and not just something that's in a little glossy on a nice web page that you just put there just for window dressing but something that anchors people around sort of common ideas.

Yeah, I think you're right. Think that the trick is to take those principles and make them actionable, right? What does that look like in the organization? Can you evaluate people on those principles? Everybody puts them up on a poster on the wall, but can you make it more real? Can you reference those in your all hands meetings? Can you really push that to be throughout the culture? That's key.

So, Jana, other thing we want to talk a little bit about is what are any emerging trends in the industry right now that most excites you? And on that topic, because I think that the other exciting part of this industry, there's a lot of young people now I think that are looking for engineering schools so that they can actually then pursue a career in this industry. It's very exciting. So what excites you the most? And also what would you recommend to young people that are in school today or looking to go to school, graduating from school that want a career in this area?

Yeah, great question, Rob. I know like this, the canned answer is like AI or something like that, right? But I think for me, the thing that I'm most excited about is I feel like we're coming, what I hope is the end of what I call the bureaucratic age, right? So many, especially of our big companies and our government agencies have just gotten so dependent on processes and paperwork and things that don't necessarily add value, that don't help you move fast. I think there's been a lot of pushback.

That's a really good, actually, that's a really good observation because I've been a little bit, I think like STEM has become STEAM in schools now because I got kids in elementary and I was like, why have they added the A? I mean, that's a really good point. I think that's a good example

of I like STEAM if they clarify the A as a way to influence, right? It's not off by itself, but-

Yeah, not just a

catch true. That's how you make it all more valuable, right? Now we're back to the complex system, right, of how all those things interplay.

Yeah. Speaking of which, remember, I think it was maybe a year ago, Jana. I think your marketing team at Firefly posted posted a story about your master welder for the launch vehicles. And I was like, that's so cool. Like you're highlighting someone that you really wouldn't you just think of the aerospace you just think of the engineers, like the aerospace engineers, people with very specific expertise in propulsion or whatever that might be.

Yeah. There's some magic to that, right? Yeah. His was great. We had another one that profiled the person who does all of our thermal blankets, right?

So we've established that STEAM is better than STEM. Right here.

Yeah. I like it. I understand. I've learned something today. That's really good.

That's great. Perspective.

That's good. Okay. Well, we like to end this segment usually with a fun question, something that tries to help everyone understand you a little bit more as a person, and hopefully this will. So the question for you, Jana, is if there was one person that you would prefer to travel with through space, who would that be?

I'm gonna I'm gonna have to say my husband. Oh, Katy Perry. Because what's that?

No. Katy Perry.

Not Katy Perry. No. He screams too loud when you're coming back down. I'd have to say my husband. He's also an engineer, had some experience in aerospace throughout the years. But he's my rock, right? He's my number one. So would have to be him. I couldn't go without him.

That's awesome.

Besides he might be a baby.

That Oh, that's even better, right? Something goes wrong, have someone to help you out.

Yeah, he might actually be able to fly the thing. That's a

good thing to take with That's also a good answer. It's usually a pretty good answer to have your spouse as part of that. Yes. Tony, who would you have?

Oh gosh. Probably not my wife. That's not a negative.

Don't know if she's

going to listen to

this podcast.

Yeah, don't know. Thanks for asking me that. I don't haven't even thought about who I'd go to space with.

I I'll tell you one thing. I know a lot of people all sit on a one way mission

out in the space.

Yeah. Alone.

It's gotta be somebody you're willing to wear a diaper with, I think. Right? So

Oh my lord.

That adds another dimension.

Well, I forgot to add as part of the question that a person could be alive or deceased. And so I think mine would be my grandfather who's behind me in this picture here. He was a phenomenal person. He passed away a while ago, but he and I, we have a lot of things in common. But one of the things we don't have in common that I really admired him for was that he was a pilot in World War II.

Rob, I'm gonna kill you for asking that question of me. I'm in so much trouble.

It's okay.

Liz was telling me how she was subscribed to the podcast this morning too.

There's an editing feature on this, Tony. It could just work and work and don't worry about it.

Well, Janet, thanks so much for joining us. This was really interesting. I love a good framework too, so I really enjoyed your perspective on sort of how you assess culture as well. If our listeners wanna get in touch with you, how can they contact you?

Probably the best way is find me on LinkedIn.

Okay. Do you know your handle off the top of your head or they can just search Janice Bruce, anyone

can Yeah, there aren't very many.

That's right. We'll include a link to your LinkedIn profile in the show notes. Anyway, for our listeners, thanks for joining us. Number two in the books. Hopefully we've got some more listeners now than we did last week.

Yeah. Thank you, It

was an honor.

Right. Great to see you. Thank you so much, Jana.

Anytime. Take care, We'll see you next week.

Bye bye.