Meet your cohosts Austin and Marshall

By rattling snake and bullfrog's croak, the singing robin and jackalope. By howling coyote and gator snout, to the crossroads we dance about. Welcome to Southern Bramble, a podcast of crooked ways. Southern Bramble is a Patreon supported podcast, so if you want to see Austin and I get extra spicy with special guest hosts, head on over to patreon.com backslash Southern Bramble.

If you subscribe, you'll get early access to podcast episodes, recorded video, monthly spell sigil, or recipe outlines. You'll get to also ask listener questions. And if you join the top tier, you'll be acknowledged at the end of each episode. So please, if you'd like to support us, check us out on Patreon. I promise you won't regret it. So this is the virgin episode of Southern Bramble. I am Marshall, the Witch of Southern Light. Hi, and I'm Austin, uh Banex Bramble on Instagram.

Uh I am so excited for this. Uh we we have been like trying to figure out how to really come together. Like I live in Texas, Austin lives in Florida and we've been messing with all of the uh technological stuff. I've never felt so. millennial. Yeah, I um don't uh I'm like uh I I'm only 24 and I swear I'm s a technologically adept or anept like I don't know how to

That makes sense, but we're finding it out. And that's actually kind of cool because we're doing this on anchor. Anchor is really, really easy. I'm not even making an ad right now. I'm gonna make an ad later and you're gonna have to hear me say this probably twice. That's totally fine. Uh but I know Austin and I were talking. We were thinking the best way we could kind of start off this podcast.

would be to get to know each other. Uh, if you're gonna have to listen to us talk to each other over the next however many five to thousand years this podcast will go, you should at least start by knowing who are these? Who are these people? Yeah, who are these homos? Who are these who are chatting? Yeah, who are these queers? Who are these queers? Turn your ears off. We told you it was gonna be spicy, y'all. Oh yes. Uh definitely. I do know that the way in which

I want to say I'm just gonna use the full-on scientific word here. My homosexuality has affected my craft and in in many ways. Yeah. Um Yeah, same. Uh if you don't like the word queer and you don't like the F word, I don't know. I say it a lot, so I apologize in advance. That's okay. Um, I personally feel like this is our space.

And if we're using words that we have personally reclaimed based off of words that were used against us when we were younger and we want to own that identity now, I think that should be our right. Um yeah that's how i feel about it Yeah, I definitely shouldn't say I apologize in advance because I I don't mean that apology in any sense to anyone listening. So Hashtag, sorry, not sorry. Very that, very that.

Okay, so um first things first, I thought it'd be very interesting, of course I Uh I love Britton and Jay Austin from uh Invoking Witchcraft. I love their podcast. It's really fantastic. They inspired me to kind of have this idea of interviewing each other. And I don't want to just totally rip them off because that would be rude. But I figured it they wouldn't mind quite as much if I also gave their Shout out. Yeah, yeah. Um, I uh awkwardly messaged um Josh and I was like

Um, yeah, so maybe, you know, once sometime and we can cut this out, but I was like we sh m you know, maybe we should do like a little like a little crossover. Like it'd be really cute'cause he commented. on the art that we did or that I did when we posted when we announced the podcast. And I was like, maybe like we should interview each other at one point. I don't know. Maybe Did he respond?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh good. Then it's not so weird. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, we've had we've had some we've had some cute little chats um in the past and and um he was like, Oh yeah, maybe we should do that and I was like, Yeah, well, you know, it's okay if you don't It's totally fine. But he he did he was like no that'd be that'd be cool. So I don't know how much of that he met, but

Well we'll have to start by making a first episode in the first place. That way there'll at least be some sort of like frame of reference for what anyone would be signing up for. Exactly. Yeah. So uh Austin and I put together a list of different questions. I have no idea what he has written. Uh he has no idea what I have written. And I figure this could be kind of a fun exploratory experiment. What do you say?

Yeah, I think it'll be fun because I um usually when I do interviews, I either give the questions to the person or I like to know the questions myself so I can prepare. So this will be really interesting.

Um, so who wants to go first? Eeny meeny money mo? I think you should. Okay. Okay, so Austin, my first question for you is, what does your practice look like? Ooh, that's a good one. And really similar to my first question for you. Of course. Um so my Which my practice is well I if for those of you who don't know, I practice um what is known as folklore.

um witchcraft or folklore, traditional witchcraft. So essentially what that means is that my practice is really land based. Um it is inspired by history, by folklore. Um It's very spirit heavy, and I follow um what I consider to be the six pathways of witchcraft. Um so uh yeah, it's it's it's dirty and gross and ugly and beautiful all at the same time. I should start off by saying that. Um there's lots of pissin' and jars and uh blood and nudity and cum and

and yelling. There's a lot of that. Commanding. I command. Yeah, very that and also you know conjuring up the devil for fun. Right. And so in folklore, this is really interesting. I know I've talked about this on my Instagram, but um conjuring up the devil in folklore is very different from the idea of the the Christian Satan or Lucifer. Um, would you mind clarifying exactly what you mean by that?

Yeah, so uh I don't think I've actually talked about this on social media, so uh this is uh really interesting. So the way that I see things and I think the way that many people I know who follow a similar practice that I I do see it is there's many different devils. There's many different spirits there's many different witch initiators um rights because like you can't like claim like

There are people who have been initiated into witchcraft by Akate or some other deity or some other spirit, right? So to just say that. the devil's the only way or that one spirit or one deity is the only way. Um, I think that's not a hundred percent accurate. Um So to like quick disclaimer on that, but there's many different devils. There's many different crossroads devils, uh, plant devils.

uh devils of the land, devils of place, uh many different dirty devils too, like, you know, trick trickster spirits and Um, you know, but I I think it all kind of feeds into the larger folkloric devil, right? Um but they are quite separate entities. So On top of that, when we look historically at Christianity and the folkloric devil, they overlap and they get really conflated, but the Christian say

um would technically be uh, you know, a adversarial spirit or, you know, the f some petty impersonation of all evil, you know, just the embodiment of all evil and and all of that, whereas the folkloric devil kind of has a much um actual like historic lineage that you can base from pre Christian Europe. and images from pre-Christian Europe, you know, the horned god of the West, or, you know, lots of different um pagan deities who have morphed and and uh conflated all into this

you know, Christian double lore and this pre Christian double lore. And it gets really confusing because they're all like it's intertwined. But they are separate at the same time. So um yeah, I don't worship like uh some Christian Satan. I uh don't really worship anyone at all, actually. Um, but we can get into that later. So I don't know if that answered your question.

But thank you. It definitely does. I think it's interesting because I think it's important to remember that not everyone's practice looks the same. And just because you hear one word that ticks off a thought or an image doesn't mean that that's the same thing it means to that other person who said it.

So when people hear the word devil, most people immediately go to the idea of the Christian Satan or a fallen angel Lucifer. But that's not really what we're we're totally talking about here. Wouldn't you agree with that? Yeah, I definitely would agree with that. At least personally. I want to leave room though for People who, you know, are theological Satanists. I want to leave room for um Luciferians. I want to leave room for um you know the goetic uh

the Luciferian spirit that you would invoke for lots of Goetic workings or lots of Solomonic magic. Um, you know, Lucifer as the light bringer, Lucifer as uh the light the light star in the dark, you know, those the those kinds of things. So um yeah. Separate but different, but also the same, but different. It's kind of like that I'm turning away from status quo, a transgressive act of of be for me, I know that In general, I love the idea of of accepting that outcast or marginalized

put me in and just completely embracing it. And I think sometimes that kind of that kind of leads to the whole I met the trickster spirit at the crossroads because that's where I ultimately was pushed to go and that's where I found solace. Yeah, absolutely. There is a lot of like crossroads, um, points of intersection and liminality, um, and overlap between Uh, at least in my opinion, I think there's lots of overlap between witchcraft and and queerness. Oh, definitely.

So now it's my turn. You do me, you do me.

Yes. So I I want to know, Marshall, how do you define witchcraft in your own words? Ah It's so funny you say that because I've listened to you actually describe this in your own words. And I think we've even talked about this because we have a little different ideas of what it means to us individually. To me, uh, witchcraft was it's Yeah.

My name is is is the Witcher Southern Light because not only am I in the South, but the South kind of gave me this feeling of of down below. There was this darkness, there was this depth of place that I was when I was younger, that I felt very outcast. in the dark, marginalized. I'm gay. I came out very young. Before I even came out, everyone in my entire life suspected. So I found my light within witchcraft. I found my light in that darkness.

So for me, witchcraft was a a reclamation of personal power. It was a choice to instead of continue to fight to be part of the accepted majority. I just went I went fuck that. This is mine. This is my space. I'm gonna make it my space. Um So for me, not only was witchcraft a choice or as you have said actually a transgressive act, I probably wouldn't have used those words until I heard you use them. And I like that. But it's also a a recognition of self.

I can be the source of mountain power. I don't need to continuously look outside of me for that connection to the divine, to the higher existence, that liminal space. Um, that That was the idea of of

following this type of tradition. And it's it's changed. You know, I I started when I was much younger in Wicca. And then as I got older and kind of dropped that mentality and and and my mind in this process changed. Uh I think it was I want to say Temperance Alden, the author of Year of the Witch, and then you both introduced me to more ideas of local land-based versus, you know, very ethereal, universal, goddess type Gaia work, which is what I was doing. I wanna say a while ago and and now

It's a very, very different it's a very different look. It's more visceral. I would say probably more in the line of Tradcraft or traditional witchcraft, like you would see in The Crooked Path or uh the Six you brought up the six ways. Uh that's very, very Traddies if you want to call it like that. Traddy Daddy. I'll be trying daddy. Very tra very tratty daddy. Very daddy from now on. Yes. Yes. So that's that is to me what witchcraft means.

That's really gorgeous. Yeah, I I would like I feel like it's so hard to define. Like I'm thinking back to my answer and like that's a very like a physical answer of like what witchcraft or of what my practice looks like, but it it's so much deeper than that. And and like Sometimes when I find myself defining it, like I really could go on for a long time trying to define

what witchcraft is. So it's really hard in just a few minutes to like nail down like what does that look like or define witchcraft for yourself because witchcraft really is kind of undefinable. Um I was talking to a friend two nights ago and we were chatting about this perception I think that people have where witchcraft is

I and I see it mostly on like social media, um, that like witchcraft is like the basic form of of ma like the basis of all magic. And A, that's not true, but B also um To s like to kind of throw the word basic in with witchcraft, witchcraft is not a definable set. set of mysteries. It is it goes really deep and it goes really far into the earth and um it's complicated and scary and dangerous and um

I won't even say that's my opinion. Like I witchcraft is is deep and dark and lovely and beautiful, but also ugly and uh definitely um yeah, it's a it's a path. I mean, sorry, there I had to cut it out there a little bit. Uh there is a There's a reason we chose the words crooked path to define this podcast because we wanted to make sure it was very clear that this

It zigzags from both sides. It's a liminal space. It's called the crooked path because it weaves back and forth from dextral to sinistral, baneful to to beneficial. And I think one of the big things that I started in this practice when I was much, much younger was everything was beneficial. Everything was love and light. I had not even heard of the words fluffy bunny till later in my life.

But I didn't realize neither did I. Yeah, I didn't I didn't that wasn't thrown around when I was younger, but I was also like twelve, thirteen, fourteen years old. So I didn't have the same type of communal spaces. I just had a bunch of books from my local Books A Million store from the mall.

Yes, come on, books a million. Books a million. Okay, so I have your second question. What is your most favorite spell ingredient? Ooh, that's an interesting um one. So um Let me stop you right there. Um No no no. Okay. So so here's here's this really weird um thing that I uh go on about. Um so for me, I think

Um uh which is a great question, but it leads into something that's not about that question at all. Sure. So I don't actually view things as ingredients or things to use. So my practice is rooted animism. Um so for me the Animism belief that I have is that everything contains

some form of divine spark or some in some way um a form of sentient or consciousness. That's not necessarily to I think that there are different levels of consciousness. So um memories that are are pr placed upon um physical objects or um uh you know natural occurrences, natural phenomena and also, you know, um Sorry, I kinda lost my train of thought.

Everything contains a form of consciousness or spirit. Now that doesn't mean that every spirit is easily accessible, but I think that spirits get built up, spirits get created, spirits get separated into

different aspects of different spirits, right? And there are many different spirits ruling over me like the same thing, right? So, you know, how does how does the uh Romanian folklore believe that a dragon creates a storm and flies out from the devil's cave, and that's what creates storms, versus over here in America, how does say uh a Native American story where there is

um maybe um a a bird or you know a large creature that flies in the sky creates a storm. And I I I kind of think that well they all do that. And that's a very omn omnis perspective of everything. So to get back to your question. to say that there is an ingredient for me personally, I take that as a very capitalistic perspective. Um not to shut you down. I think I think this is a great question. This is fantastic.

Um, so I don't view things as ingredients or things that you just throw in there to, you know. get a desired result for every everything for me is the relationship that you have with a spirit. and this the particular spirit that you're working with, supporting spirits, right? So say if you were to, you know, we think of in the West particularly and I think really in this like very

modern witchcraft movement like everything goes like gets boiled down to a correspondence sheet and I think that really does like a disservice to things. I think like um weird personal thing that I that I had experienced a few nights ago. So I have a a a new rosebush that I'm growing. And the purpose of me growing this rosebush is to um be uh like gain this particular rose bush not the the spirit of rose proper like not not all the roses all over the world this particular rose bush

um is going to be a spirit ally for me. So I am growing it, I am stewarding it, I am, you know, giving it offering and speaking to it. The other night I had a sit-down with it and I was doing some channel work with it, and the visions that I got from it had nothing to do with what people think. roses would do. I saw the plant demon or the plant spirit. Um I saw visions of skulls and um looking through the eyes of the dead and like

There's a lot of things to be said about roses and necromancy work, and and that's totally true. But this this this spirit of this rose, I even asked it about love. It didn't want to show me anything about love magic or um rose petals or anything. It was all in the roots. It was under the soil. I think I'm getting off topic, but my point in saying this is that the relationship that I have with this thing may never be used as an ingredient. This particular rose plant may never

show me how to do a love spell. This particular rose spirit might specifically want to show me one. particular thing and that's okay because the relationship that I'm developing with it and what I'll be using it for in magic is going to be what the rose spirit said. not what a correspondence sheet says. Does that make sense? No, no, it does actually I've I've kind of learned and picked up more of an animistic perspective myself. And I think uh you you saw, I mean it kinda

joke. Oh. I loved it. I loved it. I was cackling. Yeah, I made a joke about uh uh uh animism is just putting googly eyes on everything And if you really want to just kind of simplify it, it it It's a silly way of thinking about the idea that everything is alive, everything has spirit, a a a level of divine spark. So when you think about everything as just a level of ingredients, it's almost no more than the idea of of of cooking with intention. And I'm like, you know what, that's cute.

Um don't get me wrong. That's just fine if that's where where your practice is. Um, I personally see it a little differently, which is why I actually wrote this question, because I wanted to see what your response would be. Um uh did you have a feeling that I might answer like that? Kind of. Either that or you were gonna say red thread.

It was gonna be one or the other. Oh, you know what? Actually I will I will a hundred percent go out and say my most used spell ingredient is red thread, to be honest. But that would have been much shorter answer. Yeah, instead of the five minute long winded answer that I gave. But uh to answer your question, yeah, red threat is my most used spell ingredient.

So the question that I have for you is I wanted to get really personal with you. Oh, here we go. Yeah. So tell me about your childhood, like your upbringing, where you grew up, um, what what's your childhood trauma? Oh my goodness. You don't have to talk about that part, but like Tell it tell me and tell us about you know, it's it's weird. We've been friends for um

Oh, it's almost been a year now. Can you imagine? Yeah. And um I don't think we've ever like sat down and had this like full blown I know a little bit about you, but like what was your upbringing? Um, I grew up in uh Texas. Uh it's a suburb of a large city. I do kind of keep the exact city uh private just for safety reasons. But for sure. Yeah. But um it was a a relatively

I want to say relatively conservative suburb in a very liberal large city. So uh I knew I was different from a very young age. I literally saw VHS recordings that my mom had on this. huge camcorder of me putting blankets on my head, pretending to be a girl, walking with a, you know, a super swish. I always had like I was the only boy in my school that had jellies. You remember jellies?

Those jelly shoes. Yes. Oh yes. They're bad. With like the the ripple things in them. Oh yeah. They were clear. I had to have my jellies. I screamed if I didn't have my jellies. Um I ended up realizing that I was definitely different. And funny enough, I discovered witchcraft before I discovered that I was gay. I wasn't ready to even take on that identity just yet. Um oh my god, me too. Yeah, I want to say it was sixth grade that I discovered uh Buckland's complete book of witchcraft.

And again, book the million. And Uh it was one of those kind of wake-up calls for me that, okay, I know that I'm different. Maybe this is how I'm different. Maybe this is this is what this is what it is. I couldn't figure out who I was or what I wanted. But that was the first thing that really stuck out to me as as this was calling to me.

Uh, unfortunately, you know, that just immediately drove a wedge between me and the rest of the people in the school and only made me uh more of a target for different types of of bullying and such. But at that point. At least I didn't feel like I was powerless. That makes sense. Not that I was like hexing right or left or anything, but it it was definitely.

situations where um it gave me a sense of personal power again and identity. I think I came out when I was a freshman in high school during a commercial break of Mad T. That's aging myself right there. Yeah, yeah. No, I love that. My mom, uh funny enough, actually I came home from school a a week before that and one of my classmates' mother had confiscated his phone, called every number on it, and my number was on.

And apparently, when my mom answered the phone, she just goes, is this Marshall? And she goes, no, this is Marshall's mother. And the the woman, the only thing this woman said was, Do you know your tongue scan? Oh God. I know and my mom was like, Excuse me, who are you? What are you calling about? And my m mom was just like, Well, if he is, that's none of your business, but he has not voiced as much to me.

And then the other mother was like, Well, then why is he speaking to my son? Is he in Boy Scouts? Is he in band? If he's not in any of these, then he must be gay and he's influencing my child. And I came home from school and she literally said, I need to talk to you, Marshall. I was like, What's up? And she goes, I need to talk to you about your attraction to boys.

And you know, my my heart was just like exploding with this anxiety. And I was like, it's not true, it's not true. And then two weeks later, during a commercial break of Mad TV, I came out and she started crying. And I was like, oh no, please don't cry. And she just said,

I'm so glad you finally told me. Oh, that's really sweet. It was it was a very sweet and and groundbreaking moment for us because my mom was uh she's a counselor and she knew that there was that was a huge deal, not only for me, but um to then continue she she took on the burden for me, she told my dad, she told my grandparents. She told some of my neighbors. And for someone that was having a hard enough time admitting it out loud.

a parent that can be so kind to take on that burden for a child or teenager of having to share it with other people you're afraid to. Um, that was a kindness that she did for me, I know. Uh not everyone would have wanted it that way, but I did. So for me it took off that burden of having to carry it. Um

Yeah. Now in high school actually there was a lot of issues with funny enough, there was actually a death threat that I got. They brought me into the office and they said someone has made a threat against your life. And I was like, oh my gosh, who? And they said, I'm sorry, we cannot inform that of you. We can't tell you uh uh uh uh transgression. I was like, oh okay, well uh what did they say? And they said, I'm afraid that's between us and the student.

I'm like, okay, so you can't tell me who it was. You can't tell me what they said. Are they being punished? And they said, I'm sorry, that's again between us, the school officials and the student. I said, so what am I doing here? Right. Like why bring me here? Like just so I can be worried? Yes, their response was um

We as as the school have a a legal duty to inform you when a threat has been made against your life on school grounds. Um so we have informed you and now we're going to have an escort take you back to class. I love that. That was it. Um several more things happened. Uh, but later on, this is really cool. Me and my mom got together and she actually worked with multiple school districts, including my own. on the process of building a safer, more inclusive LGBT environment.

uh sensitivity training and so I actually got to go back and speak to my own school ISD, the principals, the vice principals, the guidance counselors, and give advice on what should be done and what should not be done, which is pretty much everything that happened to me. Yeah, that's really cool. That's really cool. It sounds like you and your mom are really, like, really close. I'm I'm very close to my mom. I'm I'm lucky for that. Absolutely. Good.

Okay, so I have a map I have a question for you. What is your first memory? Ooh, that's a good one. Um, so taking it back to my childhood years, I came into the craft. Um, I love that. I love that for you, Books A Million is the agent of the devil. Yes. Um Books a million Books a Million in the Mall. Yes. Uh for me it was Scooby-Doo. Um, Scooby-Doo and the Witch's Ghost was like Yes, I remember that. Yes. Um, that was the first time that I had ever heard not which, but like Wicca. And, um,

Also, like the Hex Girls were hot. I pretended that I had a crush on them when really I wanted to be them. Of course. Um, my favorite was the the blonde one with the with the um green outfit because I just loved it so much. It was so gothy. Um Anyways, so but that was the first time that I'd ever heard the term Wicca. So I had exposure to it, and that came out. I think in two thousand or nineteen ninety nine. And um at that point I would have been like in two thousand I would have been uh

three years old. Um so I had an exposure to that. I know, I know. I'm young, y'all. Um uh so I was exposed to that word at a really young age and didn't fully understand the concept, but I don't know exactly how I knew what that was. Um

you know, for a really long time, even before I really started like getting into witchcraft. Um, but I always I had such weird experiences as a child. Um This isn't necessarily witchcraft, but when I was a very young kid, I used to have dreams of or I had a series of dreams where I would mean with this um not friendly uh demonic Uh Um, I think I've talked about this like online before, but I would have these dreams of this demonic spirit and it would tell me to do things for it.

And it would, you know, i i one of its big packs or not packs. We didn't make any agreements. Um, as a as a young child I wasn't making any deals with Um but It had told me like, you know, if you ever tell anyone about this, um I'll make your family go blind. Um, I'll cause I'll like cause blindness upon your your mother and your father and all of that.

And it would show me like images of like my parents, you know, without their eyes and and all of that. And this was a series of dreams over several Uh And eventually through the power of prayer, um, I was like able to remove this spirit from my dreams and it never bothered me again. Um So I know that's uh interesting for maybe some of you'cause you're like, well, uh firstly, prayer the fuck. Secondly, that's really interesting how you go from having meetings with demons in your dreams to

wanting to meet them and and talk to them and conjure them up and this, that, and the third. Well that's on your terms. It's on your terms now. Exactly. Exactly. Um so a quick aside, y'all, um There are many, many wonderful spirits. Um, not all of them have your best interest at heart. So some of them do want to take advantage of you or scare you or things like that. Um Uh so that was really my first like visceral memory of okay, there is Spirit.

There is a power in prayer, or at least a power in dreams, prayer. And in some weird way, even though I wouldn't have considered it magic, there is a power beyond me. or within me to do to make things happen. It that and that happened probably when I was like three or four. I was pretty young, but I do remember it. Um And it wasn't until years later that I eventually like came to the crowd. Mostly through divination and um wanting to learn how to read tea leaves and

um really really shitty astrology and um really really shitty poem readings. Um I wasn't good at it uh but um then I wanted to get a tarot And it was at Barnes and Noble and they had this little like pocket tarot deck. It was like you can't see what I'm doing, but it's like the the it's probably the size of like my palm. And I remember I asked my mom to buy that for me and she said, No, that's satanic. You may not have that. Um

So being the kid that I was, I took twelve dollars worth of quarters, which is about how much the deck costs. I didn't have a job at the time. It was probably like eleven. Um, and I bought the tarot deck for myself. And while divination and tarot does not equate to witchcraft, that was kind of my gateway into it. That makes sense. Yeah, I had like lots of weird formative experiences. Like I had my first

And, you know, the spirit dream thing and all of that. I feel like it's like a multi-step path that leads you to it.

So I wanted to know how did you come into witchcraft? That's my third question. Um I like that we're mirroring each other's questions. Obviously we were meant to do this together. Um again, my mine literally was I was always obsessed with witchcraft when I was younger. Like the ideas of witches in movies and books.

I always found myself identifying more often with the person who was gifted powers or the villain because the villain was the witch. Uh like I was way more in line with e with uh uh Maleficent or the Witch of the West. Uh I I just really, really was into all of that stuff. Um now I remember

I do remember Scooby-Doo and the Witch's Ghost, which is funny you bring that up because I remember being like, oh my gosh, they're bringing up Wicca, they're bringing up this ancient religion. And I'm like, oh, now we know more. It's very much based on Margaret Murray's idea of this. Ancient witchcraft line. And when I discovered it, that was still very much the narrative in the nineties. Like I found uh

At Books A Million Books A Million is becoming an egregore now. It's growing based off of me saying the words over and over again. Um But I also discovered uh Teen Witch by Silver Raven Wolf. Um, you know, I do think that people don't always give her enough credit, especially nowadays, because everyone has to basically

Live off of the information that was presented at the time. And Silver did something that I think was different from most of the writers, is that she not only targeted books towards um, less ceremonial aspects of the craft, but she actually even wrote a book for teenagers and she started with an opening chapter that was for the parents. Uh no other book did that. And it was a way for me to invite my mom or apparent. My dad didn't care he was atheist.

It was a way for me to invite my mom into understanding what I was doing. So getting involved that was hard because she was Episcopalian. She was very much into the advice from From our priest at the time, and I just had to kind of practice a lot in secret. Uh, I still remember my first spell. was a freezer spell.

And funny enough, uh, it had gotten really bad rumor mill wise in my middle school that Marshall was doing witchcraft and voodoo. And uh the pol not the police, the teachers pulled me into the office and said, These parents have been calling in. uh about their their concerned about their children being around you and that you're threatening them with witchcraft. And I'm like, what but what's

No, none of that. It's just people don't know what's going on. So they make up scary stories. They go home, tell their parents. And what I am now as an adult understanding is they they took a bullied kid into the office. And they told the kid who was being bullied that he needs to stop all these people bullying him. I was that kid, just so we're clear. Um and they told me very specifically, we need all of this stock to stop. And if it doesn't, we're probably gonna have to call your

So I'm freaking out. I don't want my parents to be like, Oh my gosh, Marshall's doing witchcraft and all this stuff and it's becoming a big deal in school. Like that was not in m my plan. So I did a a Freezer spell where I put the situation on paper, put it in a baggie, put it in a Tupperware container of water, and then just put it in the back of the freezer.

And funny enough, a lot of the talk stopped. I never had to call my parents. I want to call them now and be like, what the fuck were you doing talking to a child who was being bullied about stopping his bulliers? But that is neither here nor there. Wow, that's um uh it's it's so interesting how um Schools do shit like that. Yeah,'cause I remember things were asked backwards back then. Yeah, I remember a lot of things happening um like that to me as well.

I think it's yeah, it's your turn, right? Yeah, I I actually have this is a great question for you. Uh what was coming out like for you? And which do you feel was harder, coming out as gay or as a witch to your family? So that it yeah, I love that. Um it's funny enough, all happened at the same time or it happened many times. So I um I grew up Obviously very similar to you, very queer from a young age. There's

um a cute photo of me. It's adorable. I love it. I am on all fours. I'm couldn't be m older than like three in the picture. I'm on all fours with my le um feet up in the air. I'm like hands down, knees on the floor, feet up in the air and a pair of my um like grandfather's girlfriends Clear kitten heel bedroom slippers with like the the Marbot tufts on the on them. Um and a and a pair of like Mr. Potato Head earrings.

And I'm I'm like ass up in it. Like and I'm just looking at the camera, like smiling, like, look at me, aren't I the prettiest gal at the ball? And Reoccurrences like that happened through all my life. Um So when I came into witchcraft, I knew there were certain aspects of my myself that I had to hide. I didn't really understand the concept of being gay. I knew what gay was.

I didn't think I was gay, even though I was fucking around with boys at like a really young age, but I didn't consider that gay either. Um But I um So when I when I came into witchcraft, I knew that I had to hide it because I had already had that experience from my mom at like the uh Barnes and Noble with the tarot cards and things like that. I hid them.

Um, and I knew that I I you know, I went to like a a Lutheran school when I was a kid and I was always challenging my educators about religious beliefs and things like that. Um And so I knew what I was doing was considered wrong, at least to my family and to the church and to the school that I went to. Um When I was getting older, there were several re uh like occurring things where like I would get a tarot deck and then my parents would find it. Or I would um ask for

uh Agrippa's three books of occult philosophy, but instead of saying occult philosophy, I would just say the three books of philosophy. Um And I would like put that down on my Christmas list and then, you know, they would look into it and they'd be like, well, you left the major word out that's a red flag and that's the word occult. Um, that's not good. And then it would, you know, that would turn into like these big explosive arguments, like really um

not just like sit down and let's have a chat. Like no uh the the worst experience And the most memorable one. I was uh fourteen. And I had come home from my local occult bookstore and I had this, um, and God, I I I I would never wear it now, but I had this like big gaudy pentacle that I would wear when I was out with my friends. But then I would take off before I would get in the door. Oh my gosh, me too. I did the same thing. Yes.

And I forgot to take it off one day. And I came into my mom's room and she saw it. And that led to this whole thing of like You know, um uh finding out more stuff like going through my room, finding more things, going through my Instagram or I'm sorry, my Facebook. We didn't have Instagram at the time. Um going through my Facebook and all my text messages. um from boys at school and that's when they found all the, you know the homosexual conversations that I was having.

on top of all the witchcraft stuff that led to like this book burning in my backyard and like Um yeah, really, really like dramatic. experiences that I somehow my parents don't remember that and I'm like, um, uh yeah, I wonder why I don't I don't

tell you a lot of things about what I do. Um but yeah, there there was like a book burning. They lit all of my like they lit um this altar that I had on fire. They lit all of these books on fire. On top of that at the same time while simultaneously text messages and my my uh direct messages from from Facebook and being able to see the confirmation that yes I was gay and yes I was sleeping with like

men who were n way older than they should have been that I should have been sleeping with. And um yeah, so th it all happened like at the same And it led to some really difficult times for me and my family. Um, they got over the the gay thing. really quickly. Um, and we were okay. That like they got over it within like a week or two. Um, but they never got over the witchcraft thing. And they weirdly they did after I was like eighteen. Um, and I was like out of the house. I don't know. Uh I

not super long ago, like I told my mom that I was uh during the quarantine that I was like doing tarot readings for um, you know, to pass the time while I wasn't working. And uh like that was okay. That's whatever. That's fine. And I'm like, what happened to all this like fire and brill and brimstone from like you know, uh three years ago. Like what what the fuck? Um so yeah, i i it all happened at the same time. And it was very

Wow. That's explosive and then quite diminishing near the end. Yeah, right, right. Yeah. We're all Gucci now. Oh good, good.

So I wanted to know, uh we and you kind of already explained it, but what did your craft look like in the past? And how does that look like now? And like what's changed? Do you find yourself like 'Cause I know just in the time that I've known you, like it seems like your witchcraft, at least on social media, has changed a lot. And so is mine, like just within the past like couple of months. Like there are some

like experiences and things that I've been going through. So what does that look like for you? Uh you know, it has actually changed a lot. Um it used to be very goddess centric, very goddess heavy. I looked at the universe or or this idea of creation as very feminine because Creation itself in my mind was was feminine. It was this idea of birth giving. So I kind of focused very much on on

divinity and the divine as having a little bit more of a goddess type energy. And I think that kind of came from the fact that when I was younger and I was kind of forced into Christianity, uh I it was very patriarchal very patriarchal, it was very uh male dominated and and I being someone who I'm not I'm not gender fluid, but I recognize the fluidity of gender. I I recognize that I have masculine and feminine aspects of myself. And I like embracing both of those.

But I felt like I was very oppressed and embracing femininity when I was younger. So when I could in my spirituality embrace that feminine aspect, I went directly for it. Um I definitely have delved into different aspects of hikate or or or general goddess type energy that I kind of would channel into my work. And then slowly something sort of shifted when I started learning about um traditional witchcraft from specifically Gemma Gary's book.

traditional witchcraft. It was something that kind of switched on and changed. And then I started learning about folkloric witchcraft from from like uh you and Aaron and Corey and uh uh The idea of understanding sabbatic inspiration The way in which we use this.

historical witchcraft as inspiration for systems that are now built based off of, you know, the man in black, the folkloric devil, the horned god, this this great initiator of the land. And now I actually very much start seeing these archetypes as as heads of of specific energetic uh existences. So when I think of the man in black.

or or or the horned one. I'm literally thinking of almost like the keeper of the physical realm, the the guy that stands on the edge between here and the other side. So there's this idea of this great initiator, someone who you work you work with and build relationships with and maybe make initi self initiation or dedication to the same way you might see something in in the book The Silver Bullet or or

histories of of folklore which is going in midnight under the full moon and dancing around a circle and calling up the devil and being like, Hey, give me your mark. Let's work together, dude. So it's it's changed a little bit more and and and funny enough,

I am getting so much more in touch with my local land, where I live in Texas, the trees that are outside of my window, the birds that now visit my patio, the garden that I'm growing. Uh I I'm I'm building a relationship with a huge oak that's at the corner of the crossroads where I live and then a Japanese maple in my courtyard because I don't know, it just feels like I'm building relationships with things that are straight up right here.

And when I talk about the idea of the folklore devil or the man in black. I don't quite think about it as much as as as the idea of some scary devil, as much as I think about this this gateway, this energetic gateway of of of I don't even want to say male as much as I just want to say a a very active energy.

And then on the other side of that is where you start to get more into the ether, into I guess in dragraft you call it like the witch queen or or or whatnot, but that's where I start getting more into spirit work, more into um Uh the under or the overworld, the above or the below, if that makes sense. It's it's outside of this physical realm and it's a little bit more into the ethereal realm. I have not

delved to de I'm still learning, I'm still experimenting with that, but I have been focusing more specifically on the initiator or uh man in black. And that's kind of what my practice looks like now. Yeah, that's really great. So I have a question for you. What is the book or resource that most inspired your craft?

Ooh, that's a tough one. Um Because you know, people are gonna listen to this and be like, I want to read that too. Right. I wonder um Like you mean specifically like what I do now, right? Well, I just mean in general, what is something that you have read? What is a book you purchased or was given to you that just was like one of those aha moments and then it inspired your craft? in just a significant way. It could be now.

Yeah, I think um well everything that I've ever read has kind of shaped me to where I'm at now. But I will say that I think Erin Oberyn's um Southern Cutting, uh folkloric witchcraft in the American South is probably um the most influential in terms of what I do now, even though uh, you know, Erin and I are are friends and getting to talk to them, it's you know, our practices might look

somewhat separate and and different but you know, there's a connection. We both live in Florida. Um you know, I took on this somewhat tradcraft kind of um approach from thing And then it later developed into what I would consider folkloric witchcraft. Um, so yeah, I think that would be a really important book for what I do now. You heard it, everyone. Southern Cunning by Aaron O'Brun. Uh uh it is on Scribd as well, I believe, if you have a Scribd membership. Um

Have you heard of Scribed? I love it. They have a lot of audiobooks as well. Yes, I have heard of Scribed. I don't have a subscription. But maybe I should check it out. That's too bad for you. Wow. Oh my God. I love your skirt. That is the ugliest effing skirt I've ever seen.

I'm wondering, are there uh which is uh funny, I th these questions really do kind of mirror each other. I think we are on the same wavelength. Um you've kind of talked and I feel like this is a really great question for you, especially knowing where you grew up and how your upbringing was, especially being like a kid in the nineties and the early two thousands and how

Like, what a weird time for media and how gorgeous that was. Um, are there any non-witchy media sources that impacted your craft? pop culture, movies, TV shows, um, or like non-witchy books, like fiction and stuff like that. You know, I read a huge amount of uh a lot of witchy book, like Sweep. Sweep was a big one, but that is totally a bastardized version of Wicca. And if you ever want a really fun Young adults novel series, Sleep is wonderful. But

If we're going non-witchy, but something that was extremely influential, funny enough, is Arl Stein's Fear Street uh novels, Fear Street saga specifically. Um It is really fascinating because a lot of these books there it was very horror genre. I was always in horror genre. Scary movies. Scary book. My mom doesn't know this. Maybe she does know this. Who who knows? She's gonna find out today. Well, if she listens to this, but like my mom would go out of town and my dad would not.

is pretty much probably the only thing me and my dad have in common is we loved scary movies. So when I'll go out of town and my dad would take me to Blockbuster. That's right. Blockbuster. And loved Blockbuster. Blockbuster. And I was allowed to rent any rated R scary movie that I wanted. And that is how I uh

I was able to uh build a more of a kind of a regular type of symbiotic relationship with my dad. So I wouldn't say it necessarily affected my craft, but it definitely affected my relationship with my parents. And um I wanna say again, it's hard to think of anything that really re affected my craft in media. growing up, but I will say recently, and this may be an offshoot.

Social media has deeply affected my craft because outside of witchcraft in general, I am starting to notice how um not only people respond, but I specifically kind of found witch talk during the whole, you know, TikTok witchcraft stuff on uh during quarantine. And I was seeing a lot of stuff that I thought was either misinformation or just kind of bad. Some of it was cool, but I was like, I'm not seeing what I want to see.

So I had to start making it. So TikTok for me was one of those really big great unintentional initiators, especially when it came to social media, because it pushed me to visually make something that I wanted to be seen and represented that I didn't quite see was being represented.

Yeah. Yeah. Social media. Oof. It that's uh we'll have to talk about more that'll be probably a whole series of that'll be a three-parter. Ooh, yeah. Okay. So I have one for you. Uh Who would you have dinner with? Anyone in history of the world, Derrow? A single dinner, pick one. Um, I don't know. Oh wow. Uh these questions are always one of the most difficult. Like my favorite or like just choosing one thing. I'm so bad at. Um

We might have to cut out this silence. Because I'm like, oh yeah, I could really I could really think about this uh too much for a long time. I You know what? I think I would Uh this can't be my final answer, but I for now I'll have to say Isabel Gaudy. Ooh. For people who don't know, can you tell who Isabel Gowdy is? Yeah. So Isabel Gowdy um was a Scottish woman back in the um Fifteenth century, sixteenth century. Um

15th century, I'm pretty sure. Early modern period. She was tried and or accused and tried of witchcraft. She Um came forth with a series of of four trials over a period of six weeks that uh no torture, no like no one was sticking her with needles or, you know, anything like that. Um she probably gave some of the most

in depth confessions about her experiences with being a witch and her experiences with the devil. And basically Isabel's trial records um Uh amongst many other trial records, but hers are some of the most influential on when we think of like witch folklore. Um even to the point where some of the tropes that we see with like witch movies, you know, get uh turned in into into like these movie tropes. So Isabel Gowdy's trial records have had a huge impact on witchcraft.

accusing witches and also modern witchcraft as well. We have no idea. I don't know what she looks like. We know she was like middle aged. We know she was married. Um and we don't know what happened to her after her trial. Um, in my mind I think she hopefully would have ran off and um, you know, escaped her oppressors, but it was uncommon for the time. Uh because Scotland was doing so many of these trials, like they you know, they didn't really care like about

what happened afterwards, she was probably killed. Um, but we don't know that for sure. So I would love to have dinner with her. She is a wild gal. She loves a good party. She loves a good feast. Um Uh yeah, and I think I'd love to have dinner with her. We would probably get very drunk and eat way too much food. I'm gonna be super superficial and just go ahead and put this out there because there's no real reason behind it whatsoever other than the absolute obvious and choose Jason Momoa.

I see that for you. Thank you. Thank you for that. Oh, I guess you did say dead or alive. Dead or alive, sure. Yeah. Anyone, anytime ever.

I'm wondering what is your favorite method of divination? Um, right now Uh I'm still trying to teach myself tarot. It takes time for me to learn that one. I have the Modern Witch Tarot deck. Um And I have an Oracle deck. And right now sometimes the one card pulls are really easy for me to kind of be like, Okay, uh uh what is the one piece of advice I can ask from this deck to give me to prepare me for the day? I have also learned more about the process of Asking more specific questions.

Not like what's in my path? Path of what? Path of death? Path for dinner? The path on your car on the way to work today. Like I would ask some of those very broad questions and get very broad answers and I didn't really know what to do with it. So

learning how to be more specific with tarot has been helpful. But I also really like an Oracle card. An Oracle card is one of those that it's very different from Tarot. They all change based off of the deck. And I like that I can kind of Either do a single card uh a question that I need I need a a a theme around if that makes sense. So I probably have to say um tarot and oracle cards for now. Yes. That and funny enough, uh talking with fire.

Okay, a little bit of pyromancy going on. Yes. I have been slowly I won't get too detailed with it because those are details are hard to explain, but the process of lighting a candle. reaching out for the energy or spirit of flame and then trying to have a conversation with it.

Flame has a very specific energy. It has a very specific idea of itself, if that makes sense. At least that's what I I read into it. So um it's not gonna give you answers on everything, but when it comes to dealing with with the element of, sometimes it is It's interesting because I've talked with you about this before that I'll I'll light this candle. I'm asking it very specific questions.

And it surprises me with the answers because most people are concerned about whether or not I'm like projecting my answer onto this and then just assuming it's confirming it or Or am I getting actual useful, usable new information? And what surprised me the most was getting that clap back. Getting that sense of like this spirit is rolling its eyes at me. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Like I got that clap back at one point and I got that sense of of

You're going about this the wrong way. This is what you should be doing. And I knew was actionable, not just projection, because it's something I didn't think about or know before uh evoking the power of fire, before evoking that spirit. Um I didn't know that. beforehand. So for me, it was a new thought, a new idea, and it felt more planted than it did made up on my own. So uh that's kind of a new one for me. I love that.

Okay, so I'm curious. Uh, if you could have a fictional superpower, any type of fictional superpower, what would it be? I think I would love to be able to Turning visible. Ooh. Yeah, I think I would love being able to go through the world seen or unseen. Um there's probably a lot of crimes that would be committed. There's probably lots of um

Yeah, I would be I would be a really mischievous bitch if I could truly turn invisible. Um, but you know, I I love actually to to bring it randomly back to magic. Um invisibility uh in magic is something that um I use somewhat often. So I mean clearly it doesn't like turn me into a Wonder Woman or not Wonder Woman, um the Invisible Woman. But, you know, like That is something that I do use, so it's fascinating. I love that.

So my final question for you before, you know, some little rapid fires. Um what are you hoping to get out of this podcast? And what are you what are you excited for? What do you want this to be? You know, I I actually I love that question because I have a couple of favorite podcasts. I love Occultism with a side of salt, uh I love seeking witchcraft, I love invoking witchcraft. Um Our Paths podcast. I've listened to all of these and I love what they give. I love the conversation. Um

I have really appreciated getting to know you and the things that you have inspired in Minecraft. And that's one of those things that I feel like I want to talk about. And I honestly, I have my social media and my My SM friend, you know, I'm just gonna say social media friends, not SM friends. That's a little different. Uh but that's what I was thinking. I was like, oh, oh, no. My social media friends.

But you know, in real life, in my regular everyday life, I am the only witch that I know mostly. So I want to be contributing and I want to also be a part of and take from. uh this community. I want to interview people that inspire me. And I want to do that with you because I trust you. So one of the things that I want to get out of this truly is to enrich the community and learn from it.

I love that. So I have a last question for you before we rapid fire. What, if anything, would you want to tell your younger self? Ooh, there are a lot of things. Um Don't sleep with him. Have safer sex. Um Love yourself baby because oof woo chile you uh it took a long time but I'm I'm glad I I do now. But like, you know, if you maybe like started

off on loving yourself a little bit more and being a little gentler on yourself. You probably would have avoided a lot of issues. Um yeah, those kinds of things. I feel like that's one of those things we as as as gay men grow up and look back and think, why did it take me so many years to find self-love? Yeah. I know that's definitely. Yeah, it's and it's it's a constant.

process. Like it's never like, oh suddenly I have, you know, enlightened myself beyond all feeling of of self-hatred or or anything like that. Like it's a constant work that I'm doing and working on sometimes more intensively than others. But yeah, it definitely is something that's ongoing.

It's not like you get to a point and you're like, There, I got it. I'm done. I don't have to work. I'm healed or I'm healed. Yeah. Wouldn't that be I gradu I graduated from therapy and I'm I'm finished. That's the superpower that I want to be finished. To be done.

I think that means you're dead. Oh fuck. Yeah. Okay, so Uh I want to rapid fire questions for you first. And the you have to give me your first answer, whatever comes to mind. Okay. You ready? I have like I think like five or six. That's it. Just a quick one. Ready? Favorite color. Black. Fly on an airplane. Coffee or tea? Coffee. Herbs or crystals? Herbs. Day or night? Night. And lastly, beer, wine, or

Yes. I have um some rapid fires for you and I want you to um of course use the first thing that comes to mind. Okay, I'm ready, I'm ready. Favorite witch book Traditional Witchcraft by Gemma Gary. Favorite non witch book. Oh uh Um the lovely boat. Okay, cute, good one. Um most fuckable sun. Okay, this is gonna be really weird and I'm just gonna put it out there because I'm a weird person.

And I'm gonna go with straight up my own, Sagittarius, because I feel like I get along really well with Sagittarius'. And whenever we do have a a uh a Tris. A tris. I never complain. No, okay. Actually I have one more for you, but like also, no, I would totally agree with that, especially the the ruling planet of Sagittarius being Jupiter, it's always bound to be a good time. Um, my last one for you, gay club or a chill bar? Chill bar.

I see that for you. Yeah, you know, okay, so this still is something that you may not know actually and the audience is gonna find out. I actually am an extroverted introvert. So I like extroversion or being extroverted on my own terms. So sometimes a crowded, intense, like heavy uh a club scene.

I can handle it in small doses, but I actually have a weird fear of crowds. Um, the more dense, the more shoulder to shoulder, the more I have to get the fuck out of there uh immediately. And oh my gosh, my age is gonna show here. It's too loud. No it is so loud. I agree with that. No, that's totally fair. Yeah. I'd actually rather not

I do like a concert. I know you don't, but I do like a good concert, but I like small venues and I like really intimate performances with people as opposed to like stadium shows or festi I hate festivals. Too many people, too hot, too. It's always like in the summer or in the early autumn when it's not cold out. And you know me, I like I like the winter. So I have one word for you.

Is that one word or that two? Is it two words? It's hyphenated, so it's it's hyphenated. I thought you were gonna say come. So I was like, okay. Oh my gosh. No. What? Are you like me? Never. No. I wouldn't call you out like that. Not on a podcast, please. Not on a podcast, please. Well, oh my gosh, this has been a I think this is a fantastic content for our first episode. I think it is too. And um I'm excited. I I hope it was juicy enough for the first round.

Uh, I think it was pretty juicy if you ask me. So so again, tell everyone where people can find you. Yeah, so um I'm Bane X Bramble on Instagram. I'm gonna get you to get a Twitter. You need to start putting these uh sassy ass remarks on tweets. I have a Twitter, but it's just for porn. Okay, gotcha. Well, I mean, everyone does. You need a second Twitter. Everyone has one of those. Second Twitter.

Um and and I'm Marshall, the Witch of Southern Light. You can find me, Witch of Southern Light on uh uh Instagram, on TikTok, Marshall W S L on Twitter. And I do have a very, very funky YouTube channel. I don't put a lot of stuff on there. It's a lot of just random stuff, things that I've put up, uh, which is also again Witch of Southern Light.

Gorgeous. Excellent. So thank you everyone for listening to the Virgin episode of Southern Bramble. I hope this uh qualmed all of your virginist desires. And yeah, I hope you like it. Thank you so much, and we will see you next time.