Welcome to the Sound In Marketing podcast. I'm your host, Jeanna Isham. Owner and founder of Dreamr Productions and Sound in Marketing Learning. I create, consult and educate brands and individuals on the power of sound in marketing. Now back to the show. We pick up where we left off, talking with Steve Keller from Pandora Studio Resonate about his recent project with Cheez-It, Aged by Audio. We left off with him explaining the setup of the six and a half month long process.
To get to the answer to the question, can you change the molecular structure of cheese? And does it actually change the flavor? So the next step for us was after the cheese finished aging, we wanted to do some kind of randomized blind taste test to see if it worked. You know, if we noticed similar results from the original study, and if we could tell that there were, there was an impact. We work with the research and innovation lab at Kellogg's facility there in Battle Creek, Michigan.
We had a small panel of tasters. We did a randomized taste test, where we tasted the cheese that had been aged to hip hop and a control batch of the cheese. I had, the plant set aside for us. Cheese from the same batch of cheese as the cheese that we used in the experiment. This cheese was at another point in the warehouse where it wasn't exposed, to the soundtrack or the or the vibrations. So that gave us a control.
So we wanted to do this test with the cheese itself, and then they took the cheese and turned it into Cheez-It. So we could taste Cheez-It crackers and see if we noticed, any difference there after it was, was processed. So we went into the facility that was locked down. We had to get special permission to actually even talk about the results, but we did find that there was a difference. There was a unanimous judgment on the part of the panel that we could taste difference in the flavor.
There was a difference in the aroma. And we also noticed a difference in the finish, not necessarily the texture of the cheese, but the flavor profile of the cheese over a little extended period of time after you had had eaten it. And this held true for both the cheese itself and the cheese after it was processed, became a form of of the cracker. So that was good news. We were we were happy with that. Gave us one more point, to talk about from the from the science standpoint.
So from there, the cheese that had been sonically aged was processed into Cheez-It crackers, put into special limited edition boxes. And it was jointly branded by Cheez-It and Pandora. There was a QR code where you could go listen to the playlist of tracks that we had prepared. Sway appeared as part of the promotion. There were some promotional videos that were released. There was a lot of earned media that came out of this.
There were news organizations, a lot of the major and local networks picking up on the story. I even saw some folks that were doing their own randomized taste tests as a result of being kind of intrigued. Folks, notice the difference. It's exciting to have done something that is interesting and fun, and at first glance it might seem laughable.
But digging into it, it was really wonderful that, in our partnership with Leo and with Kellogg, they were as committed to some of the scientific rigor as as we were. And I think that just builds, builds into the to the story. Let me ask you this. Going back to the tests, the things that you've done before you worked with Propel Water to change the, the taste, the electrolytes and doing salty or unsalted because of taste tests. I also heard, I think it was like two years ago.
Michelob, did something for Cannes, and it was, making their beer more or less sour. Depending on, like, listening to music while drinking it. So my question is with these two studies and then this study with the cheese, how come the experience was immediate with the ingestion of these drinks? But with the cheese, it went from the other direction where it was six and a half months sitting to create a different taste.
My question is like, I guess my question would be, would this have worked if you had had a certain kind of music while people were just eating the regular Cheez-Its? Do you have thoughts on that? Sure. As I alluded to before, the difference between this particular experiment and some of the other things that I've done, in playing around with the perception of flavor, it's a difference between changing the molecular structure, of something that you're eating versus applying a sensory hack.
Where one sense may have an effect on another. For example, in the propel case we looked at the flavor profile of propel. So we had the electrolytes which as you said really tapped into saltiness. It’s minerals. But the other part of the flavor profile in propel is the fruit that they use to add more flavor. And that's sweetness. So we had salty and we had sweet.
And we know from Cross-modal research that we can use music and what we call sonic seasonings, elements of sound that can prime your brain to pick up on certain flavors, because your brain's always, you know, trying to make sense of the world. And we tend to gravitate towards things that are congruent. So something that tastes sweet. The sonic components that tap into that sweetness are higher pitch, usually faster tempos, usually staccato and rhythm.
If we wanted to tap into bitterness, that would be lower pitch, more legato. The notes connected a little bit slower. And we find these cross-modal associations not just with taste, but with color. So the same way, what I just described as something that adds to sounding sweet would be something that we would also apply to. Brighter colors.
Brighter colors tend to be associated with sounds that, like sweetness, are higher in pitch and major in modality, whereas tones that are more muted and darker. We would tend to associate with tones that are lower in pitch. Maybe a little more resonant, maybe a little slower. So our brain just naturally kind of gravitates to these things.
So if I prime your brain with a particular sonic seasoning, then more than likely you are going to perceive more of that flavor when you pop whatever it is you're tasting into your mouth. So with Propel, we did research into what were the sonic seasonings for saltiness? We pretty much already knew what Sonic Seasonings were for sweetness, and the two soundscapes that we created were designed to tap into saltiness or sweetness.
So if you were listening to a more salty soundscape, if you were a super taster, you might actually perceive what you're tasting as tasting more salty. For most folks, it probably just cut the sweetness. So listening to the salty soundtrack, actually, you know, the perception was it tasted less sweet. Whereas with the sweet soundtrack that augmented your perception of sweetness. So your brain is saying, oh, you know, this should tastes sweet. And indeed it does.
So I don't want to get into, you know, the weeds on all the cross-modal research because that's really, really fascinating. But essentially what we're doing, as I said, is, is we're playing with sensory hacks. We're changing your perception of flavor, not by changing what we're putting in your mouth and the the molecular structure of that, but changing it by what we're putting into your ears.
And that's the same way, the same application with Becks, which was actually the beer that you talked about that that was at Cannes.. Stella Artois has done some things that are similar to this. We did some work with Cadbury, around the flavor profiles, and actually, Charles and I, along with a couple of other researcher friends, did a study that was released last year that goes in depth into Sonic Seasonings and all the brands that we've we've worked with.
And I'll put a link in the show notes for that because it's super interesting. Yeah, so, so folks want to geek out on the science. Yeah, they can do that. So when we get to what we did with Cheez-It, that's totally different. We weren't trying to play with your perception of flavor with a sonic hack. We were actually trying to change the flavor of the food itself. And that's what you do all the time with, ingredients and seasonings, temperatures.
You know how long you cook something, what temperature you cook it at and how it affects them, and the molecular structure of the food as you're preparing it in this case, we were messing with the microorganisms because that in the aging process is what has an impact on the flavor. So by using the vibrational, qualities of sound to impact the development of the microorganisms, we literally had, an impact on the flavor.
So this wasn't just a perception of a different taste because we had some kind of sonic hack going on. It was in the absence of that. You could taste the difference because there was a difference in the aroma, in the flavor, in the finish. Now, to answer the other part of your question, could we have done something similar with Sonic Seasonings and Cheez it? And the answer would be certainly we could. Cheez-It has a lot of different flavors. Some are spicier than others.
Sometimes they use different cheese. Sometimes it might be, you know, a little more sharp, in the cheese, a little more mellow. Could we use Sonic seasonings so that when you're eating Cheez it, we could kind of change your flavor perception? Yes. Most definitely. It's just a matter of figuring out what are the flavor profiles and how are you being congruent or incongruent in your use of sound.
And, you know, then you can combine that with other senses too, because psychophysics and cross-modal science isn't just about sound and taste, it's about everything. So by changing the color of the cracker, changing the color of the box that it's in, changing the color of the plate on which it's served can have an impact, which does bring us back to our randomized taste test in these kind of randomized taste tests.
You have to make sure that not only do the panelists who are tasting, not only do they not know what cheese it is, but everything else needs to be consistently the same. You have to use the same, plates, the same colors. Even adjusting something like the weight of a cup can have an impact on flavor. So everything in the taste test has to be equal. The researchers conducting the test know which samples are the experimental sample. Which sample is the control sample. But the tasters do not know.
And also it's randomized for the order that panelists are tasting in. As well. So you're you're attempting to, through your experimental design, make sure that any differences that are noticed are about the stimulus that you're measuring and not an intervening variable. Rounding it all out, let's go back to what you alluded to at the beginning. You said that you found more things than just, you know, a fun research project.
There was there's something that you were alluding to that actually was helpful, potentially to the world in one way or another. Sound healing. Well, what what was it that you were talking about? I think the the immediate application is thinking about health and wellness.
So obviously, if you can see from this experiment that the vibrations had an impact on the development of these living micro organisms, hence resulting in a change in the flavor of the cheese, you can imagine that vibration would have a similar effect on any living organism. I think we're seeing more and more research that's being done in ways that sound vibrations can be used, for health and wellness. I mean, a sonogram is is essentially sound vibration used to translate into a picture.
It's ultrasonic sound that that you can't hear. But certainly you can think of applications for sound, and vibration as part of a treatment modality. Could be used, for massage and could be used to mitigate pain in certain situations. And also thinking about negative impacts of sound and vibration. So if you're in an environment, where maybe there's vibration that's coming from a sound source somewhere that can actually have an impact on you feeling uneasy or queasy or sick.
We can get off into tangents. I think that happens very often. When we start talking about vibration and certain frequencies, things that may be grounded in some science but kind of veer off into, more anecdotal observation. I really try and ground the work that I'm doing more in practical experimental science that has some scientific rigor to it. But that's that's where I think we can think about the impact of sound, noise, vibration on our health and well-being because it does have an impact.
Nothing less. We can see it on a on a level of microorganisms. Well, and I, I think I read somewhere it's been a while, so I might be slightly off on it, but it was something about like the Earth's rotation. The there's, there's a beat that comes from the Earth that our heart mimics in some way. I don't know, maybe I'm I'm too far gone on that. But, I mean, certainly, you know, we can look at rhythms, we can look at entrainment, you know, the way our bodies will adjust to rhythms.
You know, we we do that as people when we go to shows, when we go to concerts, you know, our our brain will hear a piece of music and we'll see something. And it's like, how did all that work out to get in time? You know, and part of that is a phenomenon that's happening because our brains are kind of working to give us that perception that it's moving in, a similar rhythm. Because, again, we like things that are congruent, and moving together feels good. It produces oxytocin.
There's research that shows that, you know, if we move in time to music or sing together, that increases prosocial behavior. You know, so, so maybe we could solve the world's problems with throwing a giant dance party. I would love that. I think that sounds like a great idea. I would go I would go to a dance club if it if it would solve world peace. That's a good reason to go to a dance. Yeah, definitely. Well, Steve, as usual, thank you so much. I've learned so much from you.
I loved kind of the juxtaposition between perspective in sensory and actually offsetting and transposing things into something molecularly changing things. It's it's mind boggling to me that we can do those sorts of things. But thank you again for being such a wealth of knowledge. Well, thank you for, giving me some time to throw some stuff out there and have, these kinds of conversations. I absolutely love it. Anytime, anytime. I hope you're enjoying the show.
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