It is time to get solar power. We welcome you back to another episode of the solar powered podcast. I'm Ryan Hall from loyal hearts media. And I know one of my declarations for this podcast, after the new year is I wanted to feature more voices in, in writing and more more voices in storytelling, especially since I'm starting to branch out into book publishing and book editing myself.
And I became friends with our guests through, through a workshop program called the Writers Hotel, which is something I definitely will be speaking about with our guests, but he's got a truly fascinating story. And he's written, just really an incredible set of books set in ancient Chinese martial arts world. And I can't wait to talk about it with my guest, Fred Yu. Fred, welcome to the Solar Powered podcast, my friend. How are you doing today? Good. Good. How are you? Nah. I'm doing great.
I'm doing great. How are the holidays? I wish I could tell you I remember much of it, but, you know, I don't wanna lie about it. Not well, as I said to you earlier, that's a very you answer. No pun intended. Yeah. No. Thank you so much for taking the time. For, I guess, for the NBA, uninitiated, you know, what's your story? How did you, like, you got into writing. You used to be in the, like, in the finance world, the banking world. Yeah. And you know what?
Those skills carry over too, believe it or not. Impossible. But I have to say, when I plan a very complicated plot, I use an Excel spreadsheet. I don't just sit down and write because so many moving pieces that I have to rank them by when each character finds out about, certain parts of the plot, when the reader finds out about it, and when it actually happens. And those time sequences have to be ranked, and I sort them up and down until I figure it out myself.
So each scene is one line in Excel spreadsheet, one cell, and and I use that for planning. Those are the banking skills that I came with. It's a little bizarre, but it's worked well for me. And hey. You know what? Whatever works works.
That just legitimately blew my mind because with the type of books that you have written, some very big worlds that you're planning, some very big, like a lot of moving parts and especially in some of the, in some of the battle scenes, which we'll certainly talk about, as we get in. But, yeah. No. An Excel spreadsheet, that's quite the interest that that's an interesting take, I gotta say. I've been doing it for everything I write. It works for me.
It organizes my thoughts, and I'm able to move things around with a click of a button based on whose point of view, who gets this information, whether it's the reader or in real time or in, you know, in story time. And and and it's it's it's better than, like, previously when I was doing a lot a bunch of handwritten notes and pages flying everywhere, and I'm I'm trying to number them. Okay. This this is this this happens next. This must be 2. This happens next. This must be 3. No.
Now we have Excel. We don't need to do that anymore. Not like when we're young. No. Makes it no. No. Makes total sense. Honestly, what if they did you for a note cards guy? Note cards pages, to me, it's the same. Right? It's it's, it's just a size difference, but Yeah. I mean, you know, but this this makes life much easier. Yeah. Note cards is similar to Excel. It's it's just manual. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.
Yeah. Actually, for hello again, that was the first time in my entire writing career that I've written an outline. Oh, nice. Yeah. Very first very first time because I'm so character driven when I write. I always, you know, I always plot the story based off of the character's point of view because that's what I do best. Of course, you are, you know, one of the finest, like, world building writers I've ever personally known.
So that's, you know, that's definitely that's definitely working in your favor. Well, my outlines are easily 10,000 words long. So, I mean, first first the Excel and then each cell within the the spreadsheet becomes paragraphs. And then I I build upon that until I have a pretty realistic world in my mind, And then I start writing. Otherwise, I'll be lost.
And It's especially since your books, especially yeah, especially since your books are set in ancient China, and I have it that you've never actually visited ancient China. I mean, you've been to China, but you've never actually visited the time period where these books are set. Well, I've come as close as I could. There are areas in China that are still pretty well preserved in terms of their architecture, in terms of, let's say, the walls surrounding Xi'an is original.
I actually went there to measure how many steps between the back of the wall and the front of the wall because I'm planning a battle scene, and and this wall has been there for so long that the era that I'm writing in would definitely, the battles would definitely be about breaching this wall. And so I noticed and read that in that wall, there are, protrusions from the walls that are exactly a 100 meters apart.
And those protrusions are so that people who try to breach the wall, the archers who can shoot 60 meters will cover them from the side. And those who shoot in front, of course, will get them in the front. So it's very scientifically built, and I personally went there. Not that I can travel back in time, but whatever is left as a museum, as a as a relic that I'm able to go and examine for myself, I have done.
I have gone to, neighborhoods in China that are very well preserved where rich people used to live and, you know, you go in there and and, of course, it's now all a museum. Nobody lives there. And but they they left the calligraphy there. They left in glass casing a lot of their their furnitures and artifacts of the old days, and I took a lot of pictures. So that's that's as far as I can get in actually being there. It took some travel.
It wasn't cheap, but it gave me a visual in my mind that helped me with the world building, helped me describe exactly what that furniture looked like and how I felt to sit on it and etcetera. You know, to to know that, the surrounding wall has a porcelain tile roof that is painted green normally. You know? You just have to go there to have seen that. So and, thankfully, their museums and the bathrooms were very modern, thankfully. Thank thankfully.
Yeah. Because if I were to travel back in time and use bathrooms back in those days, I think I would not make it back alive. Yeah. Probably not. Probably not. Yeah. Yeah. Died. Exactly. Exactly. And this kind of detail, I think, really again, especially in the, you know, especially in the time period in which in which these books are set.
This kind of detail really plays right into, I believe, just the importance and just what really makes this what really makes, this writing pop. That kind of detail. Did you ever find that you were that you were getting, like, too bogged down in the detail to really get to the actual story and start establishing characters? Did you ever have to, like, play that line at all? Well, there's there's a lot of work to be done in the editing process.
So if there's junk that needs removal, then it gets removed then. When I sit down to write the first draft, I'm not gonna think about that. Whatever details I see, I put it down. Some and, quite a lot that are unnecessary, and those can go. You know? Like with any other writing process, it's about editing. And when I'm missing details, that's when there's a real problem. That's when I have to go after and look for information.
And I came I came across a fact that completely screwed up my first draft that only, royalty and aristocrats had second floors at the time. And I I wrote a bunch of fight scenes involving second floors and going from 2nd floor balconies to rooftops in, you know, not very wealthy places. That does not work. So, I mean, yes, it is fantasy, and you don't need to be so true to fantasy, to to history, I mean, when you write fantasy novels.
But at the same time, you know, if you know it's wrong, how can you keep going? So yeah. I try to do my research even though I'm writing fantasy just just for it to feel authentic. You can always build a completely new world, but if you're gonna declare it as ancient China, you know, get on Google Maps and look at where every city is.
Even if you're making up names, you'd still need to know where they are in relationship to the wall, in relationship to the barbarian nations in the north, on the west, etcetera. You know, still have to get all of that together. How many days would it take for someone who breaches the wall to get to the capital? You know, those those facts still have to be there. How many take how many days it would take for a messenger pigeon to get across, stuff like that. Interesting. Interesting. And yeah.
Yeah. No. Again, I definitely feel like it's those little details like that is what helps the stories in, is what helps these stories pop. Now this this series of books, you know, talk a little about this Red Cross series that is out right now. You've got book 1 that's, that's out and available, on Amazon right now. But talk a little about just what it's all about. Well, book 2 is, went to the editor. It's due out. It's been on preorder for, April 22nd.
So I had the guts to put it on preorder because I finished it already. And I kinda dragged my feet editing it. And then now it's finally with editors. So, it's it's the same genre. It's planned for 4 or maybe even 5 books, but most likely 4. It's about 3 characters. There are 3 characters in there. And, each of the first three books are focused on one of the 3 characters. And, all 3 of the first three books end at the same point in the story line.
So why why not tell them simultaneously is because, you know, nobody wants to read a massive, massive volume. Right? How many people actually finish war and peace? But if I break it into chronological, order by time sequence, then there's no real ending for book 1 and no real ending for book 2 or or etcetera.
But if I write them focused on different characters that they are all happening simultaneously, they will all have a legitimate ending even though it's the same ending from different points of views. So I was I was forced into doing that structure. It's risky because when people like the main character book 1, they wanna keep reading about the main character book 1, not a subcharacter that became the main character for book 2, etcetera. But, you know, this is how I can tell the story properly.
So that's where that's it's at. Okay. Okay. That's it. That's definitely an interesting take because a lot of times, book series like this, I know the The Hunger Game series, just for example, was really focused around just a certain central character who was the protagonist for all of those books. I mean, you admit it's risky, but it's a risk you gotta take sometimes in, in the work that we do. I mean, the first part of the job is to tell your story properly.
And second is worry about whether the audience is gonna gonna like the structure. You know, I I know many people have said that you don't start writing your story until the back cover of your book is written. Basically, meaning the marketing message comes first. But not every writer agrees with that. It's it it may sell more books, but we all stay true to how we wanna tell our story. So I'm a writer that doesn't agree with that one bit.
I'm a writer and publisher that doesn't agree with that one bit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Who were some of your influences, growing up? Some of your literary influences. I mean, it's a long list. You know? You you you grew up reading if you're into this stuff, you grew up reading a lot of stuff. Right? And, and you grew up dreaming to write all kinds of different stuff.
And, you know, when I first started reading Stephen King's and and, Peter Straub's, I was writing horror stories when I was in school, in high school. And and then, you know, you you go into some literary works. Some of it you're forced to to do for English class, and you fall in love with it, and you start writing stuff like that. And I started writing, you know, about myself, started writing memoirs, and it evolves as a person grows. And who knows where it will evolve next for me?
But as of now, this is the genre that I'm writing in. I grew up studying martial arts. I grew up watching those 19 seventies martial arts films. They were badly dubbed, badly directed, but excellent fight scenes. Of course. Yeah. And, who cares about the film quality, they fight like that. Right? So so, yeah, I grew up with those. I, I read deeply into this genre, the the few the few books that were actually translated.
Translations were horrible because let's just say when you translate something from east and west, you have to let the translator rewrite it. You can't translate word for word. Otherwise, it's it's a complete disaster because eastern culture, when you there are terms and there are are things said that implies a whole history behind it, implies 2000 years of Confucianism behind it. Well, here, if you say it word for word, you translate word for word, it doesn't mean squat.
And what are you gonna do? Go into notes, a tangent of 40 next, pages explaining the background of how that came about? You can't do that. So translations are a disaster between east and west unless the translator is very free to to rewrite and, you know, get the essence of the story and and put it out there without, you know, without, changing the story, but not word for word. But, fortunately, I I I just confess I can't read, by the way.
Fortunately, I, was able to get my hands on recordings, like, audiobooks, except they're not meant to be audiobooks. They were, radio shows in Hong Kong that, every day, they they, read a an hour of a book. And I was able to get my hands on those, and I just put on my headphones, get in the subway, go to work, and listen.
And that familiarized myself with these stories that are of my genre written in Chinese, and it's a very old genre selling 100 of millions of books in Asia throughout and, like, filmed in TV shows and movies through the yin yang. Still relatively new here. And I wanted to I thought about it. I said, why why not write it in English? Yeah. Translations translations never take off because, you know, it it reads poorly. Write it in English, and I did. And that's where I am now.
I haven't, I haven't made a big splash like it would have in Asia, but I wanna be a pioneer of this genre in in English, in the English language. Exactly. Exactly. I wanted to circle back to what you said about the translations. Are you saying that, that it would be best on these translations that you don't just translate the words, but you have to translate the, like, like, the context and subtext as well. Is that what you're saying?
Yeah. And avoid things be free to avoid things that you can't explain in a in a few words. No. You you you redo the world building is what I'm saying. It's like right now I'm translating my mother's book. That's like a 4th project out of my hands right now, and she she's writing about her own life from age 8 to 31, basically, since, the the communist takeover and everything that went on.
And I I'd like to I'd like to brag that my mother's writings are a lot more violent than mine because they are. I mean, as a child, she can come out to to the Pearl River, and every single tree along the river, there's a body hanging from it, from kills from night before.
So so we're we're talking, like, really devastating work, and it's really difficult translating for her because they're they're not not just the the the political slogans, which, you know, you can always throw out there that you find it on Google, anywhere on Wikipedia. Yeah. It's explaining the background of how people behave like that and why people are willing to to, endure.
You know, it's a it's a deeply rooted Confucian culture that people in the west would say, why do you have to listen to them? Because you're always obedient when you're Chinese. That's Confucianism, and that bleeds into the genre that I write in. Except I write it from because I grew up here. I write it like a westerner. I don't have those concepts in there of perfect obedience of of debt to your ancestors and blah blah blah. I mean, we shouldn't get into that.
But, translations, on the other hand, of something written in Chinese, no one would understand the context behind why somebody would rather die than disobey their parents. You know? It's you need to worldbuild. Yeah. Totally. Totally. And that and that makes perfect sense because they're word for word. I mean, yeah, you could cert you know, you can certainly probably do that.
But would like, I have my doubts that the average western reader who has no experience with Chinese culture would be able to tell, but somebody like you who does have that experience, who grew up, you know, in the United States, but in a Chinese family, you would have that experience. You would have that knowledge. Yes. Yes. And I'll be the first to tell you that, it's hard for 2 worlds to understand each other. It is hard. And it's not just about patience and willingness to understand.
It takes world building. Yeah. And and that's a very, that's a very, writers fiction writer's term. But even in, you know, friendships and relationships, when you're with somebody from another part of the world, you basically have to worldbuild everything you say for them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because, again, you may be able to have an idea of what somebody may be talking about.
But, you know, even something me as a southerner, even something as simple as calling a shopping cart at a grocery store a buggy. Sometimes people who don't understand that they may either make fun of you like a certain friend of mine, or they may just not get it. But if you were to call, if you were to go down to a Publix or whatever in Alabama and ask for a shopping cart, they may look at you like you grew a second head. It's even something as simple as, as simple like that.
It's like the different subcultures within, within a big company, country like the United States. Well, for example, and now I have a very recent example that, came up a couple of times is this pandemic. Now in China, you have, like, 2 cases. They closed down the whole neighborhood. You can't leave your house. You leave your house, you're arrested. Here, I remember this was last year, and, I think it was San Francisco, they, imposed a fine of a couple $100 for not wearing a mask in public.
Thousands of people came out butt naked without their underwears on with a mask on to protest. And Chinese people asked me, why are Americans so crazy? Why they butt naked? You know, Chinese people don't go butt naked anywhere. Right? Sure. Conservative than than the rest of us. I said, they're protesting. The the government should not have a have a right over what they do and do can I can I can I do? And they just shake their head like you people are crazy.
And I said, and why are you people staying home just because the government said so? Why don't you if you all come out to protest, how many billions of you guys are out there? Do they have enough cops to wrestle you? And they're like, what are you crazy? How can you not obey? The government said you can't leave the house. So this is how we don't understand each other.
And this is difficulty of writing in this genre as well that, you know, you you wanna hold on to an authenticity of Chinese culture, but that culture is not easy to understand in a different world. Yeah. Like, that was that what you just said was kind of a lesson to me because it, like, it totally makes sense because, yeah, you've got, you know, billions of people in China. And they could go out and protest however they want to. But they choose not to because that's ingrained in their culture.
That's ingrained into who they are and have learned over, god, 1,000 of years. Yeah. You obey. You obey the one above you in the hierarchy. Exactly. Yeah. And it's it's unthinkable. It's unthinkable to not obey. For me, it's like, why the hell do I have to listen to you? Who the hell are you? Right. That's how we take care. Yeah. Yeah. That's why it's it takes world building. We're still in such a world building.
That's why that's what is that's why you have to do it because it's it's not it's not something you can just transfer over. You gotta recreate, like, new rules that this American audience will understand. Yeah. I mean, you can't just simply watch a couple of Bruce Lee movies and understand how that culture works. So you watch it for the fight scenes. You watch it for the fight scenes. Exactly. Hell, yeah. Now we mentioned earlier in the, in our conversation about how we met.
What we like, what was your biggest takeaway from, going to the Writers Hotel a few years ago? Because I've spoken many times about my experience with the writers hotel, giving a reading in that little, in that little bar in the East Village, meeting a bunch of agents, meeting great friends, meeting great mentors. I mean, what was your biggest takeaway from doing that, from doing that conference in New York, several years ago? You know, biggest Other other than meeting me, of course. Alright.
Fine. The biggest takeaway is still confidence, and that that conference was not my first since leaving the financial services industry. And, it was maybe my 3rd or 4th. And each one was more discouraging than the previous as to how this industry works and, you know, how how how small you are and how big the publishing world is and how difficult it is to get into anything. And this is the one that actually gave me the tools to feel like, oh, yeah. I can do this. I'm good enough.
I'm good enough for this. Yeah. And that's that's the takeaway that that no. Yeah. I met great friends. Yeah. There there's, there there was a lot of knowledge that was passed on, like, using a paragraph break instead of the word, but, you you know, those those little details that that, Scott was was handing off to us every day around that table. Yep. But, technical skills, eventually, I'll acquire. It's always the emotional resilience that holds us back as people, and that was my breakthrough.
Yeah. Emotionally, I felt that, yeah. I can do this. Damn it. The rest of you can do it, I'm gonna do it. That was a moment. Totally. Totally. And that was one of my biggest takeaways as as well was just knowing that, yes, I knew that I had the skills as a writer. And, yes, Scott Scott Walden, great guy. You know, he and his partner, Shanna McNair, are the founders of this conference. Amazing people. But he probably I I think he circled several 100 buts in my manuscript.
And I and and that's, like, one crutch word that I used a lot. And I still do, and I watch it in everything that I write. But be that as it may, it was my it's like learning confidence as not just a writer. I've had plenty of confidence as a writer, but having confidence as an author to be able to get out there, to be able to look at this publishing world, to be able to to be able to give readings at little bars in the East Village.
I mean, confidence and community were definitely my biggest takeaway from it. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And, you know, writers are arrogant enough, at the same time, uncertain enough to still always believe that what you put on paper is good stuff. And then comes trying to get it out into the world, and that's where your knees start to wobble a little bit. And and writer's hotel was, you know, as much as it was good for my writing craft, it mattered most to a marketable author.
Yeah. That yeah. Marketable author. That's a very good point. That's a very good point because like you said, we a lot of us have, I guess, overinflated egos in terms of like how good we think we are as writers. Exactly. Perfect ego. Never overinflated. Yeah. Well, I'm also speaking as a life coach. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of an arrogant statement, but, yeah, I'm also looking at this as a life coach as well.
But but but just really kind of learning what being a mark, a marketable author is in the world, in this world, can be very challenging. But that was definitely my biggest takeaway from The Writers' Hotel. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. You know, another thing about you that, I'd love for our listeners to know is you've got some serious skill in the kitchen, my friend. Oh, absolutely. Yes. Talk a little absolutely, he says. I love you. Talk a little about just, you know, your your culinary skill.
I mean, what kind of training you've got. You're you're, you know, you're just not somebody who, like, have seen, like, certain recipes on YouTube. You've done some serious training in this. I have. I trained in Southern China. I trained in Paris. I've well, first, I have to say I like to eat. That that's, that's a driver. That's a motivation like nothing else. And you can always like to eat and always go out to, you know, your your TGI Fridays or or something significantly better.
But in the at the end of the day, if you want innovation, you're spending $400 per person on a meal, which I don't mind doing, except it's still not satisfying unless it's my innovation. And there came a point in time where I was out shooting a tea documentary, all over China and Taiwan. And, yes, I was directing the documentary, but at the same time, my mind was wandering as I was drinking the tea with these farmers and these tea purveyors and hearing them talk about all the intricacies in it.
I was thinking about how am I gonna get this in a sauce? And I thought about it and thought about it. I said, screw this. I'm gonna you know, I have a lot of tea. It's so cheap because I'm bringing it back right off the farmers. I'm gonna experiment. And that's what I did. And and from there, I had my very first innovation of using artisan teas and French sauces. And I published a book. I released a book on that, and I put it behind me.
When, cannabis became legal, I thought I was gonna do another one on cannabis cuisine, and that didn't work out very well because I couldn't remember a thing that I did. So, so I decided that I'm going to I'm gonna transform Cantonese cuisine. And my my whole slogan self slogan, I don't go around shouting it like, you know, is I'm using French technique and Cantonese flavors and tradition and American technology.
And, you know, during the pandemic, shutdown at home, I worked on that, and I came up with you know, I I I was able to transform, many so called traditional Cantonese dishes into a new state. It tastes different. It looks different, but you could see the fundamental tradition behind it. And that's my most recent one, and I haven't done anything after that. It does. During the pandemic. When the pandemic once I've been vaccinated, let's just say, I was out partying, so I wasn't cool.
In terms of drinks, I have innovations as well. All kinds of herbs soaked in alcohol that I was able to play with and make it taste good, except it takes other people a year to extract the herbs into the alcohol, and it takes me half an hour. So that's my innovation on on that end. And, otherwise, you know, I haven't been playing with that as much recently. I've been trying to focus on writing. Got it. Got it.
Yeah. I know that, it's it's been a few years, but, several friends of ours, you cooked dinner for us at your, at your place a few years ago, and that was a pretty memorable meal. So that's definitely that's definitely something that has always stuck out to me about you. Can we drink a few bottles of wine that night? Why do you remember it? Well, the okay. To my defense, I did have to drive back to Westchester that night. So yeah. The rest of the bottles. Exactly.
Exactly. Well, I honestly, I think it was mostly you, but, but, yeah, I know it was Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Yeah. It's my house. Don't go anywhere. I'll just go horizontal right on the couch. Exactly. Yeah. If wishing made it. So, yeah, I gotta deal with I 95. But, but yeah. No. That, you know, it's always been something that stuck out to me about you. Well, I know you say you're working you're you're about to send the, the second book in your, in your series to the editor.
Any clues as to what that's gonna be all about? Book 2 is is, you know, it's a continuation of the series, except it's happening simultaneously as book 1 focused on a different character. And they have scenes together, but it's from the point of view of a different character. And, I mean, it's it went off to the edit already. I'm pretty happy with it. It was it was difficult.
This this one was really difficult because my main character and this one has the Superman problem where Superman is just perfect and boring as hell. And you don't want a perfect hero. You don't want a guy who who has no dark side to him.
And so it took a few it it took a few, drafts, let's say, of, in the middle of the book to to, you know, rearrange things and add things into the into the synopsis, into my plot line that would allow me to give him something that makes him human, makes him more human than what we see, and then this one was hard. Hopefully, the next one will be easier than us. You know, the the other character is is not this upright hero guy. So, hopefully, that'll be easier. But yeah.
So this one's this one's done. It I fired it off. You know, it's it's it's due in 4 months. So Gotcha. What's the title? The commoner's destiny. The commoner's destiny. Yes. Absolutely. And you say it's available for preorder on Amazon now? Yes. It is. Alright. Cover stuff. People like the cover. I know I love the cover for, for Orchid Farmer. I I I just I I know you shared it with a few of us, and it was it just really, like it knocked me out when I first saw it. So it's, yeah.
I'm, certainly looking forward to it. Yeah. Use the same designer. I think it's gonna look good. I think Yep. I think it's going to be well received. I think it looks good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Indeed. And this is all and, and this is all, part of the, as you call it, the Redcrest series. Yes. I planned it for 4 books and a prequel. Prequel's already out, a month before I release book 1. So it's just about, releasing a book every half a year to stay on that schedule.
Yep. And I assume you've already got, you've already got spreadsheets set up for the other books? Yes. Absolutely. I set it. Yeah. Alright. Well, Fred, this has been an awesome conversation. Just really, really, I think, a fascinating look at just what it means to just as a writer to build worlds and just how important those details are. And it's just been a really fascinating conversation. I've learned things about you that I haven't known, and I've known you for several years now.
So thank you for that. And, what's what is the best way for people to get a hold of your books? I mean, there's always my website, freduwalter dotcom, but, you know, just just, find me on Amazon. That that's just it. Got it. Got it. Simple enough. Yeah. That's simple enough. I went wide before, and then decided I'm gonna go with, with, Kindle Unlimited. So my prints are still available through Ingram Spark, in bookstores, Barnes and Noble's and stuff.
But ebook is really limited to Amazon right now. Got it. That's kind of the rule for Kindle Unlimited. So Yeah. That's how that works, unfortunately. Yeah. Yep. Well, listen, it's been a pleasure talking to you. And, when the second book comes around, I'd love to have you back. Absolutely. Thank you very much for this. Alright, Fred. Thank you so much, and thank you for listening to the solar powered podcast, a presentation of Royal Hearts Media.
For more information about me, you can find me on the social media machine at Ryan Hall writes on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, or you can just shoot me a good old fashioned email at Ryan at Royal Hearts coach@[email protected]. Forgot to change that, but that'll do it for this episode until we meet again. This is Ryan Hall saying thanks for listening so long for now. I love you all and go get solar power.