And it is time one more time to get solar powered. We welcome you back to another episode of the solar powered podcast where we celebrate the world changing magic of ordinary people telling extraordinary stories. My name is Ryan Hall from loyal hearts media. Thank you so much for taking the time today, and I think we've got a really fascinating guest here today. I've known Kathy again for almost, you know, about six or seven months now, and she's she's got a really fascinating story.
She's been practicing massage therapy and body work for over thirty years. She's, you know, ex military Takumi body centered practitioner. I'm not really sure what those words mean, but we'll certainly talk about them. End of life care doula, you know, teacher, mentor, author, and she's also got a really fascinating story. So let's go live now and speak to Kathy Ginn. And, Kathy, thank you so much for getting solar powered with us here today. Ryan, thank you.
This is really a a delight, you know, to be with you and, yes, to share my story and to have you part of it. Mhmm. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, it it you know, it's truly an honor to, to have you with us here today, and I just think I just wanna start simple. Just tell me a little bit about yourself. What's your story? Yeah. What's my story? In a nutshell, you know, I was I'm a child of the sixties, born and raised in a small town in the Midwest in Wisconsin.
And, yeah, as a child, I I guess I was always a curious observer. I had a a feistiness and determination to me. And as I, you know, prepared for this and reflect back on my life often, I I always feel drawn to, I don't know, the invisible spirit. Always felt there was so much more than what I saw around me. Even as a little girl. And, I found myself having two main questions even, again, as a young girl. And the two questions were, who am I? And what am I doing here? You know?
And as I reflect back, I thought those are kinda deep questions for a young girl to to ask. But as I matured through life, I really understand, why they were there. So, Ryan, for many years, I I put those questions in my back pocket, and I lived a typical teenage, you know, young adult life exploring, searching, making tons of mistakes, you know, goofiness, all of that. But I never lost those questions. They always seem to tug at me in some way.
And something else that really led me in my life too was, you know, people ask, what do you wanna do when you grow up? Or what do you wanna do? I never really knew, to be honest, until I knew. And I will share that, you know, in our, interview this morning. But what I was very certain for most of the time was, excuse me, what I really didn't want. And that really led me more than what I wanted because I really didn't know what I wanted to do, in my life.
And so today as I reflect, one word comes to me still is the unfoldment of my life, has really led me to living my life with meaning and purpose today. And I am deeply grateful for the unfoldment and all the the bumps, the bruises, the sunshine, all of it because it has led me to where I am today at this very moment. And I'm deeply grateful that I get to live a life that I really love. You know? I love my work, and, I look forward to sharing it with the audience.
Mhmm. So, yeah, that's just a little bit about me. Certainly.
And oddly enough, as you're sharing that, I'm getting this image in my head of an almost like a peeling back of an onion because that really has been your life as you've as you've kinda found yourself because, like, the the word unfoldment, you know, really in our relationship that's been kind of a, you know, kind of a central word is just how these, like, how these questions how these answers to questions almost that you didn't poos started
to come true for you and started to become really reality for you. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And you're right. You know, some people have a big bang, I call it. Right? It's like they're one one day they're this, one day they're that. And, I've always been I admired that. It's like, wow. But, yeah, unfoldment, the onion as you you shared. That's a good description. Mhmm. And letting it unfold. Mhmm. Yeah. Because about yeah.
Because I'm hearing a lot of trust, like, trusting that these, like, these layers of this onion that is your life are going to lead you to where you really need to go. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And trust is a big word. In the beginning, I had you know, I really didn't use that term.
Reflecting back, it has been a real term that I really use as, I look at my life in a rear view mirror and see how it has unfolded and the twists and turns of the roads, and sometimes took the wrong turn like many of us do. And then you get back on track, hopefully. Right? And for me, I can say I got back on track. Mhmm. Yeah. Mhmm. So I want to I wanna pivot a little bit and talk a little bit about just how you really got into the whole massage therapy and body workspace.
Because as I mentioned in our introduction, you're ex military, and the you know? And as you know, and I'm sure many of our viewers and listeners know, military is the definition of rigid structure. And kinda getting into this kind of space where there's kind of, like, a lot of flow and a lot of, you know, like, trusting the current where it goes. It's definitely it's almost like a sea change for you.
So just kinda tell tell us how you got started and how you found, massage therapy and how that really became, like, a big part of your life's work. Yeah. Ryan, that's I love that question. You know, especially the contrast of the system of a mill the military and then how I really live my life, you know, the flow. And so it was 1991, and I was living in California. And I'm gonna go back a bit. I was in college in the seventies, and I was in my junior year majoring in social work, in Wisconsin.
And something, again, said I don't want this. I just I I gotta get out of here. It was too confining to me, because I thought I'm gonna be like everybody else. I'm gonna graduate from college, go get a job, and end up working for thirty or forty years in a JOB. And that just didn't work for me. I didn't even know why. I was still not very awake, but I listened. And I quit school. And I thought, now what what am I gonna do? You know, I'm 20 years old, 21, 20 20 one.
What am I gonna do with my life? I didn't know. So I joined the military. That was really why I entered. I didn't know what else to do. So I did. And traveled a lot. I was in the army for three and a half years, and then I, got out and joined the Air Force Reserves. Excuse me. For six. And even though it was a part of a system, I have no regrets.
I think it was really it gave me time to start getting to know myself because I had a whole lot of different experiences that I would have never had if I would have stayed in college, graduated, got a JOB, and gone to be a social worker, in my lens of life, at least. And to me, the military, even though this may sound strange, really gave me a lot of freedom. It really did. You know? I wasn't in combat time, so, I didn't have that.
And, it was exactly what I needed to do at that time in my life because it led me it introduced me to people I would have never met, experiences, cultures that I would have never experienced, and it began to and I love that. So awoke started waking me up to who I was, really, within this system of the military. So I am grateful that I served in many different ways. And so here I am. Right? Quit college, did the military thing, and now it's, 1991.
And I'm living in California, you know, in my early thirties. And I'm thinking, you know, now what am I gonna do? What's next in my life? Now what? That was the question. Now what? And, a quiet voice inside of me that has always been there. Sometimes I heard it. Sometimes I didn't. But this time I did. And with that question, now what? The answer was massage school. That that's it.
And some of my friends and I had a mentor a teacher at the time, I guess you could say, a gentleman that I really respected, and he knew me. He goes, Kathy, you need to go back to college, you know, and get your masters. You'd be a really good social worker. And I'm like, I can't. I just it's not my thing. Can't it didn't it didn't blow my hair back.
And so perhaps the stub stubborn part of me had my back in that decision because against so many of my friends encouraging me to go to college or return to college, I went to massage school. And I never had a massage in my life. I knew nothing about massage. I had nothing. I went in with a a a blank slate, I guess you could call it. And, here I am in August of nineteen ninety one in Oakland, California at the McKinnon Institute. I found myself in massage school.
And, and I have a story about a quick story, I guess, that was really a defining moment to I thought, well, before I go to school, I better, probably get a massage so I don't go in totally, you know, naive. So I went, scheduled a massage with a woman where I was living in California. And, during the session you know, she seemed nice. She was friendly when I first met her. But during the session, she left the room because her phone was ringing. And this was before cell phones, of course.
And I thought, wow. This is kind of strange. But I thought she knows what she's doing. But I felt scared. I remember this like yesterday, Ryan. I felt scared, abandoned, and kinda betrayed. And I'm like, this? I don't think this is right. But I didn't know. She was a therapist. So anyway, that was a big turning point. Not at that moment of knowing, but as I entered massage school.
First day I entered massage school, what came to me was like, Kathy, what's gonna bring you the most success is who you are. Who you are being, not what you do. You're gonna learn that. You'll be fine with it, but it's who you really are. Nothing like your first experience of massage was. And, you know, Ryan, this is again part of that unfoldment that when we're awake, either at the moment or in reflection, everything serves a purpose in our life, can serve a purpose.
And that kinda crummy experience with my first massage was really a gift because it taught me showed me what I didn't want. Wasn't quite sure what I wanted yet, but I knew I didn't wanna be her. And so there I was in massage school. And, and, again, I knew that first day, even, you know, thirty plus years ago, that still small voice in me said, Kath, your success is gonna be who you're being, and this is your work. This is your work. And I floundered Ryan, for six years. I really did.
And that's a whole another story. Yeah. I floundered. I got jobs in massage, moved to New Mexico, went back to massage school because I because of the licensing, but I had no real confidence in myself. And, I didn't think I was good enough to be a good massage therapist. That's where I started. And I share this with students, especially, because I see them coming in with lack of confidence, fear. Right? Can I do this? I'm not enough. Or whatever is in within them.
And I always say, if I can do it, you can do it because this is where I started out. I had no idea why I entered massage school. It took me really six years to begin to really engage in this profession. But one thing I never did was give up on myself, Ryan. You know, that that intuitive rumbling, that tug, that unrest that I felt was always there. That was part of the voice of the unfoldment. And those six years served me well, because I'm like, I can't quit. But how am I gonna do this?
I had no idea. There you go. I had no idea. And that's where I started in this profession. You know? Kind of in the fog, if I can use that term. Kind of in the fog. And I love the fog. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's one of my favorite things is the fog. You know? Walking in the fog, looking at the fog. Because it's I'll speak for myself. It slows me down. Yep. And I look. I'm like, wow. What's there? What's to the right of me? What's to the left of me? Walk slow. Right? It brings awareness to me.
And I think those six years being in the fog, of longing and discontent was another gift and part of the unfoldment that I didn't know. I didn't know where this was going to lead. I I had no idea. And, all I can say is, you know, trust your inner voice. And, not always easy. Certainly wasn't for me. I didn't even hardly hear it half in the first part of my life. In a way, I shouldn't say that. That's not necessarily true, but, I didn't adhere to it, obey it. Maybe that's what I should say.
And and and those are universal lessons if you think about it because so many people and I I'd love to kinda touch back on the initial experience and how that kind of started you down the road to your to your teaching career in a way, but we're gonna get back to that in a second. Yeah. Because I think that, you know, a lot of people may have the like, may they may have the skills. They may have the, you know, they may have to to borrow a musician phrase.
They may have the chops to be able to pull to be able to pull off whatever kind of, you know, thing that they want to. But do they have the feel? Do they have the connection with their audience? Or in your case, did that, you know, did that therapist have the connection with you to really make that experience one that could be memorable for you as you move forward in this new career.
And I have it that it didn't, like, it didn't lead you to the experience that you wanted in the moment, but it was almost a gift for you as it really kinda got you started down this you know, down your own teaching path. Yeah. Yeah. You know, your your illustration with music, you know, which you're you're the musician. I'm not. You know? But, you know, watching musicians and when they're real you can tell when they're really in in it or they're just doing it, right?
And it's the same as you share just share it. It's the same in our profession. You know, I just call it, share it, teach it, explain it in a different way of beingness. You know, being with the drums or being with the saxophone. Right? Instead of playing the sax. Two different things, I think. Right? What you just shared in your language. And I'm listening to you, and I'm like, that's the same thing in my profession, but it's just two human beings. And that connection, Right?
Which I guess really started leading me into my teaching. Yeah. Yeah. Because almost like like it was a gift in a way because, because and and we'll certainly get into this, but let's face it. Any kind of bodywork, massage, especially, it's a very intimate experience. You're lying there on a table naked, essentially, and you, you know, you trust this person that they have your best interests at heart. Yes. You're covered, but you were sitting there you were lying there naked.
And it is it is an incredibly intimate experience that can either be a life changing experience, or it could be something that could change your life in a diff in a way that that they might not have intended. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Our work is sacred. Our my work as I view my work and what I do as real sacred because somebody is giving me pretty much total access to their naked body, and I get to touch them. What a privilege. What a privilege.
And I think that's I think that is part of my passion and purpose is to invite others, never forget that. Because we can get into the routine of our work. Oh, Mary, I've been seeing her for three years every month, you know, and it becomes a social call instead of a sacred service call. And that's my passion. Part of it is exactly what you brought up, you know, as a description of our of our profession. And I guess that's really part of what led me into teaching.
You know, I didn't set out to be a teacher. Although I love To Sir With Love, that was one of my favorite movies back in the sixties, and he was a teacher. And, Cindy Portier, one of really, one of my top three favorite movies of all time and I watch it now and then and I just watch him as a teacher. And what he went through. And I I'll never forget. I'm like, yeah. I think I I wanna be a teacher. You know, I'm young. I'm a young girl.
And kinda threw that away, I guess, or put in my back pocket for many years. But I never threw it away. And it returned to me in 1997. I moved back to Wisconsin in 1997. So I've been in the profession now for six years. Again, that six years of How do I do this thing? And so 1997, moved back to Wisconsin with my husband, and I remember sitting there again asking the universe, it's now or never.
Or maybe the universe you know, I think it the universe tapped me on the back and said, Kath, it's now or never. It's now or never. You've been hanging out with this thing for six years. What are you gonna do? And, so I made a decision, and it was nonnegotiable. I love that word. And I for me, there are certain things in my life that are nonnegotiable. And it makes life easy because there's no movement. You know? It's it it just is.
And this was a nonnegotiable time in my life, Ryan, when the question came or the, mhmm, firm tug came. Hey, girl. It's now or never. You gotta do something. You know? You're in your early forties. You know what to do. You've got everything it takes. Now go do it. And that was it. And with that, I made a decision to make massage my full time gig, along with teaching, which I'll get into in a minute, doors began to open up. And this is universal too, Ryan, I believe.
That when we're in conflict, it juggles things up a little bit. But my decision was very firm, and it just began to open doors. So I got a massage job at a hospital, loved it, built a great practice. Within six months, I think it was, maybe, maybe it was a year, I can't remember, I found myself in an interview for massage school. And this was probably 1998 now. And, I go to the interview at a massage school, Lakeside School Massage Therapy in Madison.
Went in a little, you know, actually scared because I didn't know what I could teach. I'm not a science gal. I didn't have my degree, and I knew that I couldn't teach hands on because the only thing I really knew was Echelon massage, which was a California thing at the time. And all of a sudden, the lady that was interviewing me said, Kath, would you like to teach ethics? And before I even considered it, I said, yes. Of course. I'd love to teach ethics.
I had no idea, Ryan. But that was one of those moments too. The fog began to lift. And she gave me the job. And I'll never forget, went home and started creating my curriculum and was like, I love this. This is it spoke to my soul. That is part of the unfoldment of my life. That's how it occurred. So I have a really good job at a hospital, an integrative medicine clinic.
I got my first teaching job, and then I got two other, Lakeside closed after a couple years, and I got two other teaching jobs in curriculum at massage schools. It just came to me. I didn't go look for them. And I'm like, just something's happening here. You know? Things are beginning to to fall in my lap. And I'm like, is this how life can really work? You know, I'm beginning to get things, right? The spiritual laws, the natural unfoldment of life when we do our own work in life.
And it just began to open up. And then probably in February, I thought, I'm gonna teach nationally. That's what I wanna do. I need to get I need to create my continuing education business so I can teach nationally. And because my ethics approach is how shall I say, Ryan? Ethics is an inner journey. That's my approach. And it's different because many people think ethics is boring and all kinds of things that are in my book that I understand and appreciate.
But ethics is really an inner journey of discovering who you are and then offering that to the world. And in my profession, through touch, through listening, through caring, through many things that we do. And, and so I created my ethical dimensions, continuing education business. And parallel to that, I decided to go to Hakomi training. Living in Wisconsin, Hakomi training was down in Chicago, and, it Hakomi is a body centered psychotherapy. Won't get into it, but I did the training.
And during the training, a woman, one of the teachers came up to me and said, Kath, you need to meet Cedar Barstow. Cedar is a Hakomi therapist, a teacher, and she also has a institute down in Boulder, Colorado called the Right Use of Power Institute. You need to call her. I think you'll connect with her, knowing what I know of you and your interest in ethics. So lo and behold, I called Cedar, and she became my teacher, my mentor.
She has, reach she's retired now mostly, but, the Right Use of Power Institute. And so I trained with her. And it was so, parallel to what I wanted to teach and around who am I being as I do what I do. That was really it. And it just gave me the confidence, affirmed I'm on the right path. And I loved her teaching. I love what I learned. But mostly, what I really learned is who I really was. You know?
My own relationship to power authority and, again, it's just this unfoldment that continued to happen in my life that I I am deeply grateful for because I couldn't have done this myself. Yeah. I just you know what I mean? Yep. And I I know you do. Right? Totally. Totally. Yeah. It's kinda like music, I suppose. All of a sudden, you're playing this great song or whatever, right, or creating music, and it's like, how the heck did I do that? And it's the same way.
Yeah. Or or or when I'm or or when I'm writing a great section in one of my books, it's like you you there there's just there there's just, like, magic when you're in the moment with like that. Yeah. Magic in the moment. That's it. It's a beautiful place to be. Totally. Isn't it? Magic in the moment. Absolutely, ma'am. Absolutely. I love that. Yeah. You you know, I I'd I'd love to rewind just a second and Sure. Make sure that we have make sure that we make this distinction here.
And, you know, again, this is kinda based on my understanding here is that their ethics is cut when it comes to ethical service, when it comes to ethics in the world, I think a lot of people, when we hear ethics, we're you know, we hear, you know, like a corrupt politician or whatever, but ethics, there there are can you make the distinction between, like, laws and regulations? Yeah. It it like, in your you know, just kinda keep it to your space of the, like, the massage body work, world.
Mhmm. Can you make the distinction between, like, what laws and regulations really mean and what living and working in an ethical space really means. Can you make that distinction for our audience? Yes. Ryan, thank that's a great question. Okay? When people hear the word ethics, and I'll speak from the context of my own profession, okay, massage therapy and body work because this is what I know best. When people hear and I'm gonna be really honest. So, I'm taking a risk, I suppose.
When people hear the word ethics, it's boring. It's a bunch of laws and regulation. I've been around for ten years. I got it handled. Right? Ethics is boring. Mhmm. And, I only need two hours every two years, so I'll just do it free and online. This is part of maybe a chapter in a book of that. Not my book, but although I do talk about it. So that's that. So the code of ethics, as you asked, and the law and legislation, people in curriculum need to understand this.
I'm grateful that we have a code of ethics. I can't imagine, especially the complexity of the work that we do as body workers. Working without a code of ethics would be disaster for many different reasons. K? We have access to a naked body. So the code of ethics is a list of codes and guidelines. Alright? And then we've got law and legislation, which is good too. And and it's a dance between the code of ethics and law and legislation. Right?
However, it is not enough because so much of what happens between client and therapist is not in the code of ethics, like raising prices. You know? Difficult clients. When people think of ethics in my profession, they think of boundaries, sexual boundaries, inappropriate touch, and it's very limited. So that's one side of the coin of your question. We need codes. We need law and legislation. It puts a good framework around our work. K?
And it's each individual's responsibility to know what those codes say and what the laws, what are the laws that I work within and under? But it's not enough. And the other side of the coin then is really ethics as an inner journey, or maybe it's journey of the soul. It's a study of who you're being as you do what you do. A code may say don't discriminate, which it does. Right? Well, you know, and I'm not gonna get into detail, but that's broad. What does that mean? What does that really mean?
Don't discriminate. You know? Does that mean I have to massage everybody that wants a massage for me? Where do my own boundaries come in and self care, and how do I make this perhaps decision? And so one thing that I invite my students to really understand that our work is very complex. The dynamics of our work and the therapeutic relationship is very complex. The code is a great guide. The law is what we need to. Right? Because, rape happens in the on the table.
I mean, I could give you long stories. I was on the ethics committee for eight years, national ethics committee. Number one grievance was inappropriate touch. It's one of the best best volunteer, positions I ever had in this profession was being on that committee. It kept me awake to the vulnerability, the naiveness, and the purposeful intention of practitioners. Because working on a naked body can be very tempting. If you're not awake to yourself, your code, your inner code.
So we need all three, I think, Ryan. The code, the law, and then embracing ethics as an inner journey. Who am I being as I do what I do? And that's really my passion, my purpose, what my teaching is all about, my continuing education, and my book. And, again, I didn't years ago go out and say, this is what I'm gonna do. This is what I'm gonna teach. I had no clue. It was already within me, though. And I know hearing this, you get this, and and many people will when they hear me say that.
What we are seeking is seeking us. I think that was Rumi, I think, that said that. And That sounds about right. Yep. Is it yeah. What we're seeking is seeking us. No. No. No. No. I I was just gonna say, I think that, you know, what you're saying about just almost, like, the three levels of just what it means to, you know, have a soul of ethical service to pardon the pun of the, you know, of the book here.
I think it's just really kinda leads beautifully to where, like, where did this book come from? Tell us that, you know, you know, tell us about your book. Tell tell us, you know, tell us what really drew you to get into that world of being an author into, and, you know, of what you're trying to teach with that book. Yeah. Again and I hope I'm not repeating myself too much, but it's so much a part of the unfoldment. And I go back to what I just thought of. You know?
What I'm seeking is already within me, and the book was already within me. I didn't know it. I didn't even know when I entered massage school, when I I didn't know. But I knew I had a little bit of a gift for writing, mostly through journal writing. And when I go on retreats of solitude and silence, I just sit there for days and just write. I'm like, wow. And people would read my poetry or my writing. They say, Kath, you got something here. I'm like, woah. Okay. And maybe I could write a book.
And, so once again, that inner tug, inspiration from my students, Ryan. I can't forget that. They would say, Kath, why don't you write? Why don't you write a book about what you teach us? And so the unfoldment I knew a long time ago grabbed me, kinda like those moments in '91 and '97. You know? Now what? Now or never? And with the book, it was, again, that, hey, girl. You need to do this. And it took me, a few years to really get serious about it once the seed was dropped.
But once I made a decision, and it seems that's kinda how I do life, seed is planted and, you know, I water it a little bit and get it in the sun and, you know, it's growing and I don't wanna push it. And and then all of a sudden and so that was really my book. And it just people came into my life, my editor, my cousin who helped me. You know? I don't know anything about writing a book. I don't know anything about anything.
He guided me, and Chris Natsky, and, you know, as I listen to myself kind of sharing this morning, There's really nothing so it's it is an unfoldment. That's what I can say. It's such an unfoldment. So my book is really a summary of my teaching. And the seed that was planted a long time ago, it's who I'm being rather than what I do. And I wanted to broaden my audience, I guess, to Ryan because I can only teach so many, right, and be in so many classrooms and online.
And I thought my book is really hopefully can reach more people. And after writing it and people would give me feedback, they say, Kath, this book is really for everybody. It's really about life and how we walk this earth. Because wherever we go, there we are. And we take our beingness with us. And it's always a good idea to ask who am I being at this moment of my life. And our profession provides us with many, many, many tools of doing our techniques, our everything.
But we can't forget the being. Yep. And I'll summarize this question, not maybe the interview, but I know that for the past thirty plus years that I have been in this profession as a practitioner, teacher, and mentor, I know that it is my presence, my beingness that has brought me success. I have no doubt in my mind. I'm an average therapist. I still couldn't pass an anatomy test, but I've always been successful as a practitioner, as a teacher.
And I know it's because of my presence and the things that I teach in my book. And as I said long time ago to my students and repeated it to you this morning, right, if I can do this, you can do it. But we all need guidance, I believe. And some of you're right. Much of that is inner guidance, and some comes from outer guidance. Teachers, mentors. Right? The hard lessons of life. Right? The mistakes, the wrong roads. But, ultimately, I believe that the answers are already within you.
As I teach my students, one of the first things I teach in continuing education, not curriculum, is I'm not up here to tell you what to do. I'm not up here teaching this ethics class because I'm more ethical than you, whatever that might mean. I'm a little embarrassed to even say that, but I need to so you get to where I'm coming from. I'm up here to pose questions and offer guidance and for you to really listen to the questions because the answers are within you.
And that's my style of teaching ethics because people think ethics is somebody is gonna be up there t telling me what to do. That is not my style at all. I don't like to be told what to do. That's why I was an entrepreneur. Right? What do you do, man? I don't know how I survived the military, but I did. But, anyway, that's it. It's like, the answers are within you. And so my book is really an invitation to what I teach. What I teach. Who am I being as I do what I do?
That is the main inquiry of my book, mhmm, which we can dive into if you want a little bit. Sure. I mean, sure. Sure. I'd love to touch on that a little bit. But I just one thing that kinda came to mind here, and I do have a couple more questions here before we wrap up. But one thing that came to mind is as you were speaking about that is one of my you know? And to be clear, I'm not a musician, but I do know a lot of musicians, like my dad for one thing, and I'm also kind of a music connoisseur.
But one of the, you know, one of the and I've also written two different books about musicians, but be that as it may. One of the one of the things that came up for me as you were sharing that is one of my favorite lines, one of my favorite lines from an earth, wind, and fire song is from their song mighty mighty. In the chorus of the song, the line is in the in your heart lies all the answers to the truth you can't run from.
And I really get a lot of that in what you're saying about just there's and especially kind of in the distinction, between laws and ethics is that so much of just being a good person is just within you. You know? You don't, you know, there yeah. I mean, yeah, if you break the law, you gotta pay the consequences, but it's more than that. It's deeper than that. You got it, Ryan. You got it. You know? And little side note, I love Earth, Wind, and Fire.
They were one of my favorites way back in the yeah. They were deep. They had a deep message in in a lot of their music. You just shared some of it. So I'll just go through, briefly my book a little bit, and then we can, we can close. But, my book is divided into seven different chapters. On the Soul of Ethical Service, Seven Qualities to Embracing Your Healing Relationships. So, the first chapter is called the Soul of Deep Roots. And, basically, it's just what you just said, Really.
You know, and quoted Earth, Wind, and Fire's song. Aligning your actions with your virtues. Aligning your virtues with your actions. The soul of deep roots, our inner code of ethics. We have an external inner code of ethics. What guides you from the inside is really the first chapter. The second chapter is the soul of integrity, one of my favorites. And, I'll just share a quick story if I may. This is back in when I was living in California, probably '19, I don't know, 8586.
I was in the self growth group. And there was a weekend workshop on self esteem. And, you know, I'm 28 years old or something. I said, I'm gonna go to this workshop, and I'm gonna be come out a confident young lady. So I went to the workshop, Ryan, and all the whole weekend was on integrity. It blew my mind. And, basically, what I took away from it is do what you say you're gonna do. Number one, to yourself. Number two, in this context of the interview, to your client. Integrity.
Do what you say you're going to do. Period. And so I talk about that in the second chapter. Third chapter is the soul of service and, distinction between fixing, helping, and serving. And, one of the main questions I've had with colleagues for many years is our high burnout rate in this profession, and so many people think it's our physical burnout. I've never agreed with that. I think it's our emotional burnout because of many of the things that I'm sharing with this, with you this morning.
So the soul of service, the soul of power is really exploring our own relationship to power and authority, which developed when we were little kids. And that inner child, that little part of us shows up in the session room, and we need to know that little guy or little gal, right, so we don't hurt ourself or our client. Understanding the power differential, which is huge in our in our work. So the soul of power. The next chapter is the soul of being.
Again, the main question, who am I being as I do what I do? That our way of being is really our offering of how we serve others, period. Period. So it's a dive into that. Our way of being is our offering. And next chapter is a soul of listening presence. I just taught a class on that the other day. We were never taught how to really listen. None of us. And I think, again, I think it's just a knowing I think one of the greatest gifts we can give another human being is our listening presence.
That is what has brought me success in this profession as a practitioner and a teacher, and and I wanna share that with other people. How to really listen, how to respond, how to hold space for everything that we hear, and let your chatty Cathy and talkative Tom go in the background. You wanna build a practice, I tell students? Learn how to listen really well. Because all of us wanna be seen, heard, and authentically accepted. Period. And we don't do that with our tools.
We do that with our presence. And then the last chapter is gratitude. And, I studied with Bob Proctor quite a long time, ten years now maybe. He's dead now. And, he taught me a lot about gratitude beyond what I learned as a little girl, which I'm very grateful for. Right? Please and thank you. Right?
The mannerisms of what many of us were raised with and how gratitude really influenced me as a practitioner, as a human being, to be sincerely grateful for each and every client that walks into my office, that I have the privilege of working with this person today at this very moment. And I think that's part of ethics is really having authentic relationship with gratitude. And, that also, it's a business tool. I won't get into that, but I teach it as a business tool also. It's a virtue.
It's everything. It has a very high vibration. And I know that's part of my success too, is thanking my clients in writing verbally, honestly for their faith and trust in my work has to be part of our ethical code, our inner ethical code. So these seven qualities in my book is really an expression of who I am and what I have come to learn and, embrace as I have had the privilege of working in this profession and touching thousands of people, students since 1991.
And I I feel it a responsibility to share it with others. I love it. Not a heavy responsibility, a privilege to share it with others. And that all comes out in well, much of it comes out in in my book. And it yeah.
And it really does because there's again, just kinda reflecting on a point that I made earlier is that there's a big difference between having the just the raw skills of, you know, being able to being able to do what you do and actually having that presence to actually be effective at what you do. And I think that just having read the book is really it is really evident in the stories that you share and also the message that you have in that book.
So I I I definitely recommend that you, grab it even if you're not a part of that world. But if you're in a, like, a service based industry and, like, you know, coaches, therapists, you know, that kind of thing, I certainly think it's, I certainly think it's an important read. Thank you, Ryan. It is for everybody because each one of us serves each other in some way no matter what profession, vocation we're in. Our beingness is what gets people's attention. Absolutely. Can heal. What can heal.
And, so there's a little, like, two, three sentences that I'd like to close with. Are we there yet? By all means, yes. Mhmm. I'm gonna read it because it's in my book. Go ahead. Okay. And I don't wanna do disservice to it. And I'll just say this. Also, I forgot to mention that the end of each chapter, there's couple pages to write in because ethics must be put into action. Right? What we read must be put into action.
So I have a a quote, like, a food for thought that relates to the to the chapter, and then I have inquiry. Just questions, again, related to the chapter to get people that read the book engaged with the material and in their own personal life. And then a a few pages to take notes. So it's an active embracement of learning, the book, if you want it to be.
As I shared earlier as I share in my book, you can sit by the river and hang out and read it, or you can jump in the river with me and really embrace it. You choose. You choose. But either way, I hope it benefits you. So in closing, I've titled this a blessing. May your work be filled with deep meaning and purpose. May your soul's deeper calling guide you. May you become blessing may you become a blessing to others, and may you be blessed with peace. Thank you for jumping in the river with me.
I think that's a beautiful place to leave off, Kathy. Thank you so much for getting solar powered with us today. Thank you so much for really sharing your just fascinating story with our, with our viewers and listeners here. And, yeah, thank you so much for, you know, your vulnerability here today, and I really, thank you for joining us. What's next? What's next? Yeah. What's next for you? You mean in my profession? Yeah. Boy, what's next? That's my question for this year. How did you know that?
Continue teaching, you know, and really getting my book out there. And I'm, teacher training because I am, you know, I'm not gonna be in doing this for forever. And, I would really like to leave some footprints, and some people are interested in taking my approach to ethics, which is really an inner journey, the journey of the soul, and taking it and teaching it.
So I'm developing a teacher training that will go along with my book, for people that are interested in in teaching and that have passion for this topic of ethics as a journey of the soul, a study of beingness that will just enhance everything else you do and how you walk this earth. So that's what's next. And in an immediate sense, what's next is about five inches of snow here in Wisconsin. So I'm Wisconsin. So I'm really excited. Have fun with that.
Well, Kathy, again, it's been an you've been a delight. Thank you so much for getting solar powered with us here today. Ryan, thank you so much. Really. Thank you. Mhmm. And thank you for listening and watching the solar powered podcast, a presentation of Royal Hearts Media. For more information about me, just go to royalheartsmedia.com. You can follow me on the social media machine at Ryan Hall Writes on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. I'm now on Substack.
I'll include that link as well, and I will include all the links to connect with Kathy, on in the issue notes below. But thank you so much for listening and watching until we meet again. This is Ryan Hall saying thanks for listening. So long for now, and go get solar power.