And it is time one more time to get solar powered. We welcome you back to the solar powered podcast celebrating the world changing magic of ordinary people telling extraordinary stories. I'm Ryan Hall from loyal hearts media. Thank you so much for joining us here today, and I think we've got a fascinating guest here today. His name is Joey Nattel.
He's the founder of Grow Our Light, which is a coaching business dedicated to empowering nerds, geeks, and IT professionals to break through self doubt, communication breakdowns, and just feeling disconnected. And, and I think we've got a interesting conversation here today talking about connection and talking about a lot of people who work solo and can feel lonely and disconnected often. So let's go down to North Carolina and speak to my new friend, Joey Nattel.
Joey, welcome to the solo podcast, my friend. Hello, and thank you for having me, Ryan. Appreciate you. Pleasure is all mine. Well, let's first start with the question that I love asking new guests. Who is Joey? What is your story? My story. My story began in Greenville, North Carolina. When I grew up there with my family, then moved to the Raleigh area for high school, then went to Asheville, North Carolina. So the East, the Central, the West.
So I lived in North Carolina my life and bought a house, about two years ago now. So now I'm kind of, you know, home base for me. And my story began kinda my path into coaching and the mental health and world was I remember when I was asked, like many people in high school, is what do you wanna do with your life? What do you wanna do when you grow up? Which is one of the worst questions you can ever ask a young person in my opinion. And I was just like, I don't know. I don't know.
I don't know what I wanna do. And it wasn't until I was 18 my senior year, and I walked into my first psychology class. And I just had this moment where I was like, this is it. This is what I'm gonna do the rest of my life. I didn't know what at that time, but that was it. I only was under the impression that therapy was the only route with psychology or psychiatry. Didn't wanna get a doctorate. So I was like, alright. Cool. I'll be a therapist.
So I went to school, studied health and wellness and psychology, mind and body, and then got accepted into the graduate school. I was like, I don't wanna do this. I don't wanna do this. I mostly for debt reasons, and it was some various things like a part time program and just just didn't feel right. And I would have to stay in the same town I was in after college for a while, and I wanted something new. So I went into IT instead.
I turned a hobby, being a lover of tech and nerdom and fandom of all kinds, and I hated it. I hated it so much. I didn't know why I hated it. What I knew now is it wasn't aligned with my values, what I believed, what I wanna do in the world. So it wasn't until the apocalypse of 2020 when I attended my first Tony Robbins event. And there is this I had these thoughts that I kept kind of pushing away because I didn't know what to do with them.
Like, when are we gonna move toward what we wanna do in our lives? And in this event, Tony Robbins said, like, you ever had that feeling when you wanna do something more in your life? I was like, yes. Yes. I do. That sounds familiar. He's like, that's a feeling, a call you're getting to step into something greater in your life. I was like, oh my. So if you ignore that feeling, you essentially commit spiritual suicide.
And you wake up in twenty and thirty years and you're later in your life and be like, what the hell have I done with my life? I'm like, oh god. That resonates with me so hard. And then I discovered this thing called coaching. I was like, what is that? And it was more of my speed, more of my flavor, and it it lit me up. So that's when the journey began, and I've been doing it ever since. I love that. I love that. Yeah. The an analogy I love to use, and I I love Robin's analogy on that.
Just Yeah. Like, if you wake up in twenty to thirty years and just ask yourself just what have I been doing with my life? Because I feel like so often we have dreams that just to totally butcher the Langston Hughes phrase, we have dreams that we have deferred for so long because we feel like we have to put them in mothballs almost because of obligations with family, kids, and jobs, and all that good stuff. But Yeah. You're also living a life of, as you said, just a spiritual spiritual suicide.
And that definitely resonates with me just as somebody who is still pushing for his dreams, pushing for his, you know, pushing for his goals, like same dreams that I might've had when I was 20 years old. Now that I'm almost 48. Yeah. Very true. We always will be pushing for our dreams and goals. Sometimes we get to live the dream, but, you know, what comes to mind when you say that is just like, what does it look like? What does it feel like? What does it sound like?
And how do you know you're there? So I've certainly met a lot of people who they reach it, and they, like, onto the next mountain, onto the next challenge. And they don't stop to celebrate and be present, which is a whole another conversation in general, which is, like, I see a lot of people, not just nine to fivers, but entrepreneurs who, like, never really take the time to, like, enjoy the fruits of their labor too. You know what I mean?
Especially if you take big strides towards your goals and dreams. Right? That's an unhealthy way to to get there too. You know? Yeah. Yeah. It's it's like you may accomplish your goals. You may accomplish your dreams, but you're gonna be absolutely miserable in doing so.
Yes. Yes. One of my mentors when I was first started coaching, I was just like, well, I just wanna I would just wanna get there faster, and I'm I'm just eager and urgent to get there, which is which can be a good thing, could be a good fuel. But she said to me, like, be careful, because if you start your business that way and grow it that way, you have to sustain it that way. And if that's not sustainable for you, you will get burned out. I was like, oh, that resonates with me. Right?
So making sure it flows and I say the word ecological comes to mind of, like, you know, is this sustainable in all areas of life? You know? Mhmm. Yeah. That's a coach of mine. Yeah. I hear that. I hear that. Now I'll I'd like to rewind just a little bit because as a, you know, as a certified coach myself, I am definitely kind of aware of some of the differences. Like, I I like, I've always learned it, and I've also been somebody who's been in therapy for for years.
Therapy is definitely more of dealing with the past, and coaching is definitely more of, like, creating the future. And I'm curious what sort of I know you said you kinda felt yourself a little bit more drawn towards the coaching space. Was there anything specific? Was there anything that really stood out to you, like, tangible that made you just say, this is the route that I wanna take? I don't wanna be a therapist. I wanna work as a coach. Absolutely.
One thing was there was kind of initially, I would I call it barrier to entry. So, like, there was well, I guess a better way to say that is it more aligned with what I know that I didn't know back then was my values. And one of my values is freedom and autonomy. I think therapy is amazing. I think they're amazing therapists, and I love that it's grown as it has today and is certainly less stigmatized than it is today. And I know that in some fields and some disciplines, there is more red tape.
There is some people that can't help as much or do some of the things they wanna do. I feel like coaching kind of pairs nicely with that, compliments it in a lot of ways because there are some ways that coaching can support that therapy can't. Just like there are some things therapy can do that coaching can't necessarily do as well, of course.
So what specifically resonate with me is one of, like, oh, I I don't have to, like, get into major debt, which was a big one for me being freshly out of undergraduate school. And, it was also the time factor for me. So I had got accepted into a master's program. I was kinda the social work route. And it was a three time three year program, so it's part time versus full time. And that's three years.
And then it's like in North Carolina, it's like two thousand, three thousand hours to get licensed. So that's two or three years roughly. That's like a five, six year track of, like, starting one's own practice. And that felt like a long time for me. Now what if you had told me that it may or may not take that long to grow a business?
I don't know if I would have done it, probably, because entrepreneurship has made me face my fears and securities and doubts and being seen and being heard, which is a wonderful surprise that coaching felt more, going back to what I said, really more flexible, more freeing, more modalities. Like, I don't have to have a barrier to entry to sign up for this program or that program kind of thing. I can start doing it now. And it turns out I've already been doing it most of my life.
One of my mentors who is my professor in college, they said, therapist everybody's messed up. Therapists and psychologists and coaches just wanna know why. And, you know, they one of my mentors have always said, just like, you know, psychologists, and I would also say coaches, it's just like they've been doing it all their life. They now just turn that into a job, and that has been very true for me. I've always been curious about people. Right? So so, yeah, really, that's what comes to mind.
One of the major ones, freedom, flexibility, like I've said a few times already. And then just a thrill. Seemed like word adventure. Kind of an unknown path, if you will. And that really lit me up, and I didn't know how much that would resonate me until I stepped into it. Right? Yeah. No. That that that last piece definitely definitely lands for me because I find that, you know, so much of coaching, so much of that space Mhmm. It's just co creating an unknown future.
Like, you know, you're gonna have you know, most people have goals. Most people have big dreams. Mhmm. But most people are kind of blind to the obstacles, the inevitable obstacles that come up. Yes. And I that that is what's always kinda lit me up in this space is just kind of, going through this together. It's almost like jazz music in a way. You've got a goal. Like, you've got, like, an end goal of the sound that you wanna create out of a particular song. Yeah. May not know how to get there.
And that's what I feel like a, like, a powerful coach can really, can really bring to a conversation and bring to that kind of relationship. It It makes me think of something Alan Watts once said. I'm gonna butcher the quote, but he was just like, children are especially, I think of, like, a hundred years ago and the type of, like, play sets children had, and they were, by today's standards, we would call dangerous. Anyway, children just play on them and have a good time. Right?
And, you know, they're walking on top of the monkey bars or something kind, and they're having a wonderful time. And the parents are like, oh my gosh. And it's this fine line of just, like, not if danger is the right word, but risk and joy. And that's where truly being alive is.
And so to kind of add to your previous question is, like, what else drew me to it is, like, yes, the focusing on forward, right, versus just focusing on the past, which we need to do and nurture and understand and reflect. But when you focus on the future, you know, every level there's gonna be another devil. Right? There's gonna be another boss. The next level we get, we get to challenge and overcome.
So I always like to say is, like, a good coach can do therapeutic style and coaching, and a good therapist can do both, past and future kind of thing. So the focusing on forward and it felt more growth focus versus just, like I don't wanna say because because that would be unfair to say, like, you just kinda spiral on focusing on the past, although some people do that. But as a coach, you can be like, hey. We're not gonna do this. Yeah. Yeah. We're not gonna focus on that today.
Let me pull you out of it kind of thing. And I know good therapists can do that too. But, yeah, I just wanna add that too. That's what came to mind. Yeah. Good there. But, yeah, a good therapist can certainly pull you out of that spiral even though, yeah, it kinda sounds like the relationship that I have with my own therapist, which I will not get into in this conversation. Fair enough.
But, yeah, just the long story short is sometimes I'll fight like hell with him, but know that he's right for, you know, helping me pull out of that, you know, pull out of that spiral that really feels comfortable in certain cases. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, one thing one thing in our initial conversation, one thing I found fascinating about you is just the space in which you work, specifically with, like, IT and kind of in that kind of in that picky kind of space.
Yes. And it's, you know, it's something that I can certainly relate to in kind of in my author career because a lot of the work that I do in writing is by myself lonely, you know, nobody to really kinda interact with. Yes. And I get that there's a lot of that in your world as well of just, like, somebody, like, grinding away inside of an IT closet and trying to, like, designate a problem. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of that, for sure. You know? Even high level, I would say it's now as expanded.
I I, you know, I was just listening to a podcast actually, with Vanessa Von Edwards. Great great content. Highly recommend her work. Love her love her books, by the way. Love her books. I'm definitely up here. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, it was a more recent podcast, and she was asked the question of, like, in your eighteen years of work, what have you kind of noticed socially? And she I love what she said as AirPods are killing our connections. And I was like, wow. That's yeah.
And she said, I'm forgetting the term she used, but something like weak connections. Like, in her before eighteen years ago, before she doing her work when she was younger and single before she was married, like, you go to the gym, for example. Nobody had Walkmans, AirPods, and, like, it'd be kinda weird. Now you're weird if you don't have them. And that's where kind of micro interactions happen. Hey. Do you go to that gym thing? Like, you see them out and about. Like, oh, yeah. I do. Oh, hey.
You know? What are you doing this weekend? Things like that. Smaller connections like that. And that's where actually really it evolves into deeper connections. Right? So now we have people who are, you know, IT spaces where it's it is kinda lonely work and definitely being a so entrepreneur, solopreneur, is you're just kinda I mean, here, I'm at the house mostly, kinda just doing my work, doing my thing.
And I love the freedom not having to go to office, and also there's a loneliness piece there, having the autonomy, the going out. And so there is you know, a lot of people have coin coined the term a loneliness epidemic, rising especially in younger generations. And but it affects everybody, honestly. And so, yeah, there's just a lot of things where I've noticed some skills in younger durations.
Like, I've spoken to Gen z clients, and they're like, the skills that were taught naturally, because I'm a millennial, are kinda atrophying in some ways. And what's beautiful is they can be taught. Right? It's not biologically wired. Like, we can't speak, but they're less experienced and less exposure to it. This especially goes into, like, dating and all sorts of things like that. Not just men, but also women too kinda things.
I guess speaks more on that, but that's what just came to mind when you said that. Yeah. Yeah. No. That's I love that piece about the AirPods. You're kinda killing our, you know, just kinda killing killing our connection with people. I I I have a parent in my pocket all the time every time I leave the house. Yeah. And there's def there's kinda some freedom behind that of being able to, you know, being able to pop in, take a phone call, take you know, listen to a ballgame or listen or whatever.
But at the same time, it's like when you're going through, you know, let's say at the grocery store, right, when you're going through the grocery store and somebody's got an AirPods as the, you know, as the cashier is checking them out. You're missing an opportunity to make a little talk with them, you know, talk about, you know, talk about whatever. And that is, you know, that's definitely starting to, you know, starting to atrophy is a great word for that.
It's really starting to atrophy in a lot of spaces out there. I agree. Absolutely. I see it a lot. And so, you know, for me, it's always a chance to just connect with people and practice social skills. Practicing, not like pickup lines, but just practicing connection lines, I like to call them. Yeah. Connecting with friends and things like that. Just it's really a joy to me kinda thing.
Yeah. Yeah. That's very interesting because, like, I feel like, like, I feel like we're we're we're kinda missing a little bit of that kind of authentic connection piece. Like, even maybe you can speak to this a little bit, but even in, like, networking groups, when we go to and and I'm a member of a networking group. Mhmm. And we go to these meetings, and we give our little thirty second sound bite about who we are and how we can connect with each other.
But you're really missing that opportunity sometimes of becoming, you know, of becoming friends with people, becoming Yeah. You know, missing that opportunity of having that person be able to endorse you and, you know, recommend you to other people for their services. Like, I have gotten and I I used to be really bad about this of just, like, going in, keeping my head down and not bothering anybody. But as you get out of your shell and Mhmm.
You meeting me, of course, as I get out of my shell Mhmm. I start to, like, I start to develop relationships with people who, you know, can be more than just, like, inviting to you know, inviting me to their house, for a cookout. It can be Yeah. You know, like, business opportunities. So, yeah, I'd, you know, love for you to maybe speak on that piece a little bit.
Yeah. What comes to mind is just like, I'm gonna borrow Vanessa whenever it's work again, just because it's so relevant to this part of the conversation where, like what comes to mind is, like, using kind of her framework is it's, like, three levels of friends. There's obviously more, but for the sake of this conversation. Level one is they know what you do and what your name is. Level two is people who know your goals.
They could tell you what you're working on, like, either your biggest dream or your goals. Level three is your dialogue with yourself. These are people who know the story you tell yourselves. Right? It's really deep kinda thing. And, you know, that could be broken up in a lot of things. Like, my life is awful. Everything keeps terribly happening to me, or, like, I'm a hero. I've overcome a lot of things. Or, like, I'm a healer. I'm here to help the world.
There's a lot of other modalities out there, but those are just a few. And so when you want to level up to them so, you know, let's talk about the first one, level one. That's where most people are, like, surface level friends. They're they're past kind of acquaintances, maybe a little more. It depends. But they're not strangers. Right? So if you wanna go above that, you know, one of the questions I always teach people is, like, don't ask people what they do.
Please, dear god, do not say that anymore. Please remove that from your vocabulary. What do you do is the most boring question you can ask because everybody asks it. And as a result, people go on autopilot. And then they're not gonna be engaged. Right? So ask him, like, what are you working on right now? What are you excited about? What are you looking forward to? Even a simpler question is just like, what do you do with your time?
I like that question because it gives them the ability to do talk about work or personal. Because some people aren't defined by their work. So when you ask them what they do, they don't maybe not quite get. And if they do, they'll tell you. Right? So, you know, that's how you graduate, if you will, to the next level. And you might find more commonalities and connections. People like people who like them. Right? So being very curious about the other person, they're going to like you more.
There's this, there's this great book that comes to mind is how to talk to anybody. 92 ways to talk to anybody. I'll we can put it in the show notes. And And there was a story in that that really resonates, that comes to mind, is, the author was with one of her friends at a networking event. And she talks to her friends saying, oh, who did you enjoy talking to? Let's just say the person's Tom. She says, I had a wonderful time talking to Tom. Like, oh, the author says.
What does, what does Tom do? And her friend said, I don't know. K? The author said, well, what does where does where's Tom from? And her friend was like, well, I you know, I don't know, actually. We didn't talk about that. And the author says, well, what do you know about Tom, or what did you talk about with Tom? And she said, we talked about me the whole time. Just very curious kinda thing. Right? Obviously, there's the dance and communication to go back and forth like that. But yeah.
No. I can speak more, but I wanna pause and just see. Sure. Yeah. Nice. No. No. What comes what comes up for me when you're when you're speaking about that is just the idea of being curious because Yes. I feel like you know? And social media can be, like, detrimental to a lot of this stuff, but, like, we don't really know each other anymore. We don't really know what makes each other tick anymore. Right. Like, you know, I I may live in Connecticut, but I'm definitely southern.
Like, my heart is definitely in a little cul de sac in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. Yeah. Yeah. So much of the connection piece down south, and I'm sure you can speak to this as well, but so much of the connection piece down south is meeting your neighbors, going to your neighbors, you know, for, you know, for a cookout or, you know, having a, you know, having a beer, having a cup of coffee with somebody and just getting to know people, getting to know what makes them tick.
Like, you know, you know, just for example, a, you know, like a former neighbor of mine who I really grew up with, I had, and I was well into my adulthood before I realized this was that in a previous life, he used to be a prison guard out in California. And one of the notable prisoners that he guarded was a charismatic young serial killer named Charles Manson. Woah. So, like, right when his story was, like, at the height of, like, pop culture back, you know, back fifty years ago.
Mhmm. So but it's like, you don't really know. And, you know, another piece is like, you know, a friend of mine, eight like, she's a she's a previous podcast guest. Her name is Rachel. Mhmm. And she, you know, she wrote an incredible book called, you know and she, like, she spoke about in this book about, like, getting deeper with people. Yes. And, relentless joy is the name of her title of her book. I can't believe I blinked on that.
But but she tells a story in there about a trip that she made to Israel One time. Mhmm. And, you know, it it was like a, I think it was like a church trip that they that they went on just like touring the holy lands. Yeah. And they were at this little Plaza and this older gentleman walks up and started engaging them in conversation. And it turns out that this guy actually survived, a concentration camp and told, like, just heart wrenching but riveting stories about that.
Mhmm. But you don't you like, you never know what somebody's true story is until you get deep with them. That's true. You know, what comes to mind about that is a great question. Speaking back to the three levels of connection, friendship is like, how do you move from second to third? Well, great question. There are many, but a great question to do that is, you ask someone which TV character or movie character do you identify your life story is?
Not who your favorite is, but who do you must identify with in your current life story. Right? The answers will surprise you. Right? And it just kinda blew my mind. Can I can I share mine? I'm just Please. Go ahead. Absolutely. Charlie Brown. Charlie Brown. Like, I like, I've always related to him kind of a, you know, like a spiritual level almost. Yeah. And, you know, my my dearly departed Pete was a white dog, solid white dog, just like, you know, just like Snoopy.
Yeah. And when I grew up, I kinda saw myself as just, like, this quiet loner Yeah. That in that in reality, as I look back on it as a grown up, I see just how much, like, people just, like, fed off of the things that I said and off the things that I wrote and that I just couldn't see it at the time. That's a fascinating question. It is. That's a good one. Absolutely. That's a good one. Use it use it wisely. Totally. Totally. Yeah. I'm sure this will go as a short on this, on the YouTube video.
That's definitely that stuff. That's a good one. Yeah. Absolutely. So Yeah. It went it blew my mind just as much when I heard it as well. And, you know, when you have that information about how someone identifies with their character or that character, you know, it realized, like, how they see themselves. It's their worldview, their world map. Right? Somebody might be very successful and might be doing a lot of things, but in the inside, they may not. Right?
Mhmm. You might identify with someone who's, like, a survivor in their life. They don't have as much freedom, or they might view themselves as a hero. Even though things may not be going as well for them, it depends. So, you know, when you kinda go back to where IT professionals are alone and kind of a connection piece of conversation is like having deeper connection versus many. This is something I've, been working on in my own life.
Great mentor of mine said, you know, it's at least in entrepreneurship and the coaching professions better have a mile deep and an inch wide of relationships versus a mile wide and an inch deep. Many friends and shallow relationships versus deep, meaningful relationship, nurturing ones. Right? And that also goes into a higher conversation of, like, feeling purpose and connected, feeling belonging, if you will, using Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Right?
And I think that, you know, they say, today, we're drowning in information but starving for wisdom. I'd say we're drowning in, I don't know, friend requests, if you will, but starving for deep meaningful connections. It's kind of the work I want to help people get to. Right? I love that. I love that. Yeah. No. We're definitely drowning for depth and Yeah. You know, in our relationships.
And, you know, just speaking as a fellow introvert here, I feel like a lot of times like, one of my biggest blocks when I was really starting to, like, get into the whole coaching space and trying to build a business was, like, I feel like I have to, like, at the time now, I felt like I had to become somebody different. I felt like I had to become, like, somebody that I that I didn't think I really wanted to be or really needed to be.
Absolutely. But I'm reminded, and I'd love to hear your take on this, that I'm I'm reminded of a piece of advice that my dad gave me many, many years ago. My dad for you know, most of my listeners know, but my dad was you know, he's he's passed, but he was a professional musician at one point and also pretty successful in the restaurant and the bar business Mhmm. When I was, you know, when I was a kid. And, business Mhmm. When I was, you know, when I was a kid. And his advice was simple.
You just have to see and you have to be seen. You have to be willing to connect with people, willing to, you know, willing to shake hands, willing to have conversations with people because the kind of people who are successful in really kinda any entrepreneurial space have to have be able to make those kind of connections. Yes. Yes. What comes to mind when you share that is, like I'm thinking of, what was his name?
Dave Chappelle, of all people, was talking about, I think it was a jazz artist, blues artist of some kind. I cannot remember who that artist was. He said, in the beginning of your career, you're trying to be, like, your heroes. But later in career, you're trying to be trying to get away from it as much as possible and be yourself. And you're, like, fighting to just stand out as yourself alone. And what comes to mind about that is kinda like I think we talked about the golden Buddha story.
Did we talk about that? Did I share that with you? I don't think so. No. I I don't believe so. Yeah. Pretty cool story real quick. Talk to me. I love this because when I started in the so I started reading self development and studying it when I was 18. And, later got into coaching, of course. And I remember hearing from some, you know, powerful figures like, oh, you're you're not broken. You're already amazing as is. You don't need to be fixed. You don't need to be better.
And I had this question of, like, then why do we work on ourselves? What's the point? And it wasn't until I heard this story that really resonated with me. It helped me to find my answer to that. The golden Buddha story is very simple. There was this, monk, if you will, just meditating next to a giant golden Buddha statue near a monastery of some kind or in a village. And then one of the, villagers, like, we must we we must prepare.
The the neighboring, violent village is coming to ransack our place and take over. We must we must protect the golden Buddha. They're like, yes. You're right. So they did. So they covered in mud and sticks and, you know, they covered the giant Buddha statue, and they did. The neighbors came over and took over and, I guess, drew, threw out the people, ran them out of town.
And then time passed, many years, and there was a guy just hanging out next to this giant mountain, and a chunk fell off and hit him in the head. And he was like, what the heck is that? And then he turned around and said, oh, there's gold. There's gold underneath this mountain. So they said he gathered all his friends and pulled off all the mud, the rocks, and solidified dirt. And thus, the golden Buddha was restored. So what does this mean?
The story implies that you are already amazing as it is. Your light has already shined bright. And as we go through life, the shoulds, the shouldn'ts, the, you know, childhood traumas or traumas we experience or societal norms that don't align with us are the mud and the scars we receive. And the inner work is not trying to make us better, but really just pulling it off and letting our inner word, inner light shine brighter.
So the goal is not to be better, but to shine your inner light that was always there to begin with. Right? It gave me chills. That's, you know, that's just such a beautiful analogy, and it just reminds me of a line from one of my favorite earth, wind, and fire songs. And I'm not gonna sing, and I'm not gonna get this deplatformed or anything like that. But the line is, in your heart lies all the answers to the truth you can't run from, from a song called mighty mighty.
And I feel like so many people, we kind of use our like traumas and, you know, our perceived brokenness as almost like an excuse to keep put to to keep from pushing forward. An identity. Board knows I've done it. Yes. Almost an identity. Absolutely. Yeah. And we like, it it's like we use that as almost like an excuse to keep from moving forward.
But in the same time, we're put on this you know, just regardless of what kind of spiritual belief you have, we're put on this we're put on this earth for a reason. We're put on this earth with a gift to give the world. Let it shine. Find your voice. Tell your story. Yeah. Absolutely. I agree. You've heard the expression, if you wanna have something you never had before, you need to become something you've never been before. And by being it first, you start to do it. Being, doing, having.
A lot of people get that twisted, especially in our society is like, I must do it first to have it, not not so. Connecting with what you want and things like that. And, you know, earlier point you said about becoming something you didn't wanna be. And, you know, when because I've I've expressed this point to some clients who are like, well, I don't wanna be anybody else. I'm like, well, you can't. Good luck trying. You're gonna fail at it because you can only be yourself.
You can pretend, and it's exhausting. It's exhausting. Yeah. You're going. It's good to get outside your comfort zone and try new things, and you realize that doesn't resonate with me. Right? But becoming something you never been before, you know, using the hero's journey from Joseph Campbell, what comes to mind is, like, you know, the hero cycle. You get the call. You go on the adventure. You overcome the dragons, if you will, and you then have a death rebirth kinda cycle kinda thing.
And the death rebirth cycle comes about, like, the ego identity, death to old limiting beliefs and identities that do not support you anymore, that actually, like, you know, weights or anchors that are holding you back. So people use them as an excuse, because it's easy. It's easy. And some people aren't aware, and what you're unaware of is running your life. Right? Mhmm. So, you know, some people aren't ready, and some people don't want to. That's your choice. You get to.
But if you want to have that thing, is it getting in the way? Right? Yep. So Yeah. Yeah. Just to kind of touch back on my analogy, I guess I often thought that to be the kind of entrepreneur that I want to be, that I would have to become, like, bigger than life almost. Absolutely. But I'm that guy. That's not who I am.
I'm definitely you know, my you know, an old coaching mentor of mine once said that my, like, my presence is like a warm fireplace and like a ski lodge and not so much like a roaring inferno on a forest. I love that. And, that has like, that has always landed for me. And it it it it's like the like, a joke that I have made before. It's like, I don't have to become Tony Robbins. I can just be Tony Hall's son. Yes. And because that's not who I am.
Tony Robbins, that's, you know, it's a different kind of a different stratosphere. But when it comes to, you know, when it comes to just identity is just such a great word here. When it comes to kind of people finding their identity, finding their own voice Mhmm. What are some of the things that you feel like are in the way, especially with some of the men and women that you work with? The stories you tell themselves. That's the summarized answer. Right?
Do you tell yourself that I am lonely and will never have friends? Maybe they don't consciously, but sometimes they feel that way. I've been there. Heck, yeah. Absolutely. I don't know how to connect. I don't know what to do. And an interesting point on that, I'll say, and I'll get back to answering your question, is, especially more so nowadays, past five years, ten years, I'd say, this has been more true. Kinda like the AirPod thing, I'll say. I'll speak more into depth about that.
Is people nowadays let's say they're in a relationship. They get out of a relationship or they're in a job, and now they have also more freedom, and they were focusing on being at home. They're like, I wanna make friends or go date. What a lot of people fall into is, like, I need to learn how to do that and to level up and grind those skills, if you will, before I can get out there and do that. That's not true. Children are great examples of this.
They suck at making friends, and they do it anyway. Most. Not all, of course. They get out there, they're bad at it, and they just like, Hi. My name is so and so. Do you wanna play? And then they do. Right? It's the same thing for adults of all age. It's not that you need to level up your skill. It's that you need to learn how to withstand the social awkwardness because it's always gonna be there. The social awkwardness happens at first, dealing with the presence of uncomfortableness.
I'm like, I'm at the networking event. I'm in this meetup group. I don't know anyone here. Right? And then you start talking to somebody and, like, okay. This is good. They might make you feel more welcome because they've been there a while. Maybe they have friends. And then you get into another conversation. You're like, cool. And you see another person that comes into that, and they're feeling that, like, deer in headlights look. And you might, hey. Come on over. Right?
So getting past that and practicing that as a skill and a muscle. So going back to the stories I pea people say all the time, it's just like, I don't know how to do this. I don't know what to do kinda thing. Yes. There are skills and techniques to be more effective at it. But the main thing is just getting out there and facing the fear and doing it anyway and doing it badly. Right? With reason. Let's not talk about extremes, but you know what I mean?
We're not talking about getting drinks thrown in your face. We're talking about Yes. Yes. Yes. That's very different. Yeah. Of course. But I do see a lot of that kind of thing. I need to get ready for it kind of thing. I haven't done it in a while. I'm too afraid to do it. I don't have time. I don't make time. All the stories you hear kind of thing. And their inner dialogue and beliefs of, like, oh, I'm not good enough to have friends. I'm not pretty enough.
I'm not, you know, charismatic enough. I'm not enough. Insert whatever it is. Same concept, just a little more in-depth. Right? Yeah. That's what comes up. Yeah. Totally. Totally. And what I'm reminded of is anybody who's great at something, be it writing, be it, you know, music, be it sports, be it whatever Mhmm. There's always a little spark that that that gets ignited Yeah. At one point in their life. Yes. But do you wanna put in the work to become that great thing?
Like, I guarantee you, Jimi Hendrix did not just pick up the guitar when he was a kid and started playing foxy lady. He had to work at it. He had to grow into that. Yes. You know, same, you know, same thing with the, you know, you know, same thing with a great, you know, with a great writer. Yes. I can't tell you how bad some of my early stuff was, but I work at it. I got better at it. And you know, now I think I'm pretty good at it. So, yeah, we're talking about practice here. That's it.
Pretty much. Yeah. And practice doesn't make perfect. Practice makes permanence. So you practice it not the best. You might get better at not doing it best kind of thing. Makes me think of the analogy of the master has failed more times than the student has ever tried. So true. Right? And, you know, we then lead into the conversation of, like, confidence, self esteem type of thing, and self worth. I'd like to share a little something about how I kinda distinguish the two if you're open to it.
Go ahead. I had a good friend who shared this concept with me. It's super great. So I was sharing the wisdom on this. It's like, I like to view kinda like a house. Self worth is the foundation of the house. Right? Foundation needs to be strong. The house is the confidence itself, and then self esteem is the evaluation of the house. Which one fluctuates the most? Really good question. Self esteem? Really good question. Yeah. Evaluation, how it's just like housing prices do.
Typically, they go up and down with the market. Right? Now, yeah, sure. A tree can fall in your house, and it could damage your confidence, but not always the case. Usually, I've had a lot of clients who come to me, just like, I've lost my confidence. Like, I've been there. I thought I had that too. But confidence is one of those things where it's a muscle. Studies have shown that, like, using a workout example, I don't know. Let's say you could, I don't know, squat 500 pounds or something.
At one time, it was the peak of your leg fitness, and then you just stop working out for an entire year, and now you can only do 300. Is it gonna take you a year to get back to do that? No. It's actually gonna take you, like, roughly half the time if you were consistent. The same is true for mental muscles like confidence and social skills. Right?
If you were confident at one time and you hit a skill and you choose not to do it, atrophy it, you will it's gonna take you half the time to get back on the saddle to do it. It's work to do it consistently. Right? So going back to what I was saying is self esteem when you get it, like, rejected job loss or he or she rejects you romantically or things like that. Your self esteem will take a hit. It does. Doesn't feel good. Right?
And really traumatic events might shake your confidence, like the tree analogy falling on. Usually, it's self esteem first, but confidence, yeah, it can happen. But what does that really mean? It's actually showing you that there's cracks in your foundation. That's where you get to do the inner work, your self worth. Because when your foundation is strong, using the house analogy, you can build a taller it doesn't have to be taller.
It just could be stronger house that can withstand more trees using this analogy, and it will not buckle as often. Right? So that's room for getting a therapist, a coach, and looking into, like, what are these cracks? How can I mend them, if you will? Yeah. Yeah. I that that's a really powerful analogy because it is so true. You know, there it is not a linear thing. Mhmm. Yes. That foundation is going to like, if the foundation is there and it's solid Mhmm.
You can withstand the trees falling on the house. You can withstand whatever Yep. And bounce back from it. Yes. But if that foundation isn't there, you know, a windstorm that loads a few shingles off might just totally wreck you for a month. Yes. Absolutely. But if you think about it, you know, one of my favorite analogies is that if a if a MLB hitter hits three fifty every year constantly for, you know, fifteen, twenty years Mhmm. He's in the hall of fame.
But you're also failing over 60% of the time to get a hit. Mhmm. But the when you do succeed, that's what winds up on SportsCenter. That's what winds up in the highlight film. And that all that can also get you a plaque in Cooperstown, New York. So Yeah. Failing is, you know, failing is just a way to learn. True. Absolutely. You are praised in public for the things you practiced in private. Bingo.
Bingo. I I think one more last, one final question I wanted to ask you is that what like, in your experience, when people come to you for support for coaching, what is one like, do you see, like, any, like, patterns or anything like that of, like, specific things that people come to you for, specific things that people need support with, especially in that whole, like, data driven IT kind of world. Absolutely. Yeah. Loneliness is a big one.
It doesn't have to be romantic loneliness, but that shows up a lot too. But, like, loneliness and lack of connection, disconnection, Those kinda go hand in hand a lot of ways. You know, maybe they're really good at the job, but they want something more fulfillment wise. They're not maybe exactly sure how to put that into words sometimes, but they know there's something more. So finding either romantic personal friend connections or just professional connections, and they all go hand in hand.
I also see a lot of imposter syndrome and self doubt. Right? Something I can definitely speak to. Right. Yeah. People who are who do work on themselves, and they may have a pass of not being good enough story, which I know a lot of people do. Sometimes if they believe that story is strong enough, it'll be a self fulfilling prophecy, and they will have more failures more than character building ones. And they'll see, like, see? This is why my life sucks.
Or on the flip side, if they have more successes and they're like, I don't deserve this promotion, this raise. Like, What is happening? What can actually happen is they can deepen the self or, imposter syndrome. Right? Again, updating it. So it's kind of flip coin, but still kind of the root can be the root sin issue. And then communication. Communication is a really big one.
Communication is one of the skills that everybody does but doesn't know in order to exceed in life, romantic relationships, business, be effective about it. It's this I'm gonna use this quote from Warren Buffett where he said, like, more so related to speaking is, like, speaking is one of those skills where if you didn't learn it, you may not know you're missing out on until fifty years later that you didn't use it. Kinda like investing, if you will. It's kinda it's his whole lens.
And effective communication is really where it gonna be you're gonna get over you will get raises more. You will get more dates. You will get over those hiccups in your romantic fights or friendships. You could understand the world better and understand yourself better because, you know, there's an expression I'll share to encapsulate that as, like, watch your thoughts because they turn into your words. Watch your words. They turn into your actions. Watch your actions.
They turn into your habits. Watch your habits. They turn into your lifestyle, and watch your lifestyle turn into your destiny. So how you think affects how you speak and how you act. Right? Starts with thinking, of course, but your words tell you what you're thinking unknowingly. And when you open your mouth, you tell the world who you are. Yep. I think that's a beautiful place to leave. Joey, Natel, thank you so much for joining us here today. How can people find you?
How can people work with you? And what's next for you? Absolutely. So the best ways to get in contact with me is go to my website at growourlights.com. We'll have the link in the show notes. Just shoot me an email or send me a contact thing from there. Book a call me. Let's have a conversation. What am I working on next? Getting more speaking engagements, being on more podcasts, looking for more opportunities for that. In person stages is the thing I have the least experience in.
It scares me the most, and I know that's where the growth is. That's where I'm going. There you go. Been a been a treat, bro. You've been an absolute treat. It's been a fascinating conversation. Thank you so much for taking the time today. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. Pleasure. And that'll do it for this episode of solar powered podcast, podcast, a presentation of Royal Hearts Media. For more information about me, go to my website at royalheartsmedia.com.
You can visit me on the social media machine at Ryan Hall Writes on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, and I'm now on Substack. I'll include a link to how to subscribe to that in the show notes below. But that'll do it for this episode until we meet again. This is Ryan Hall saying thanks for listening so long for now, and go get solar power. Take care.