John Lennon - God

You're listening to Song Exploder, where musicians take apart their songs and piece by piece tell the story of how they were made. I'm Rishikesh Hirway. Thanks to Quince for their support of Song Exploder. There was a survey done recently that found that over 50% of sweaters found in my closet come from Quince. That's because there are so many good ones on their site, and I want all of them.

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Earlier this year, I got the most amazing email. The estate of John Lennon said they have a treasure trove of audio material from his life, and they were wondering if I would be interested in making an episode around the song God from John Lennon's first solo album. I've never tried making a posthumous episode before, because hearing directly from the artist is at the heart of Song Exploder.

But with all the interview archives that they have of him speaking, plus all the isolated tracks from the recordings and the original demo, it actually seemed possible. So this is a very different and special episode of the show.

In September 1969, John Lennon told the rest of the Beatles that he was leaving the group. Their breakup was announced publicly in April 1970, and that December, John Lennon released his first solo album, John Lennon Plastic Ono Band. The Plastic Ono Band was the name for a rotating group of musicians that John and his wife, the artist Yoko Ono, had put together. For the making of God, the band included Ringo Starr on drums, Billy Preston on piano, and Klaus Forman on bass.

I got to interview Klaus Vormann about his experiences making this track. And in this episode, you will hear from him, along with archival interviews with John Lennon, Ringo Star. And Billy Preston. You'll also hear the original demo for God and outtakes from the recording sessions at Abbey Road Studios. They recorded the final version of this song on October 9, 1970, John Lennon's thirtieth birthday.

But the story of God and what it was about and what it was inspired by really begins with the breakup of the Beatles. We were four guys that uh I met Paul and said, Do you want to join me band, you know? And then George joined. And then Ringo joined. We were just a band who made it very, very big, that's all. And we made it very, very big, but we sold out, you know.

My own taste is different from that which I've played sometimes. It which is called cop out, you know, to make money or whatever. Or because I didn't know any better. Rydyn ni'n gweithio gweithio gweithio gweithio gweithio gweithio gweithio gweithio gweithio gweithio gweithio gweithio gweithio gweithio gweithio gweithio gweithio gweithio gweithio gweithio The only two songs I ever wrote were like Help and Strawberry Fields, you know.

They were the ones that I really wrote from experience and not projecting myself into a situation and writing a nice story about it, which I always found phony. And now I wrote all about me. And that's why I like it. It's me. And nobody else. In 1970, John Lennon and Yoko Ono started working with psychologist Arthur Janoff, who created primal therapy. Primal therapy is based on the idea that we all carry around unprocessed trauma and internalized pain from very, very early on in childhood.

and instead of processing that trauma, we find other ways to coexist with it. In a nutshell, primal therapy allowed us to feel feelings continually, and those feelings usually make you cry. 'Cause before I wasn't feeling things, that's all. I can feel my own fear, I can feel my own pain, therefore I can handle it better than I could before. Here's an excerpt from an interview with psychologist Arthur Janoff. We had a talk, John I went before he made that album.

And he said, Well what about God? And I went into a long time. Long. discourse about, you know, people have a lot of pain and they tend to believe. And the less pain they have, the less they believe. And he said, oh, something like, Well, do you mean that God is a concept by which we measure our pain? I said, Yeah, that's a fit. And uh so he wrote it.

This home recording was made in the summer of 1970, right around the time when John and Yoko were attending Arthur Janov's primal therapy session. I had the idea God is a concept by which we measure our pain. So when you have a word like that, you just sit down and sing the first tune that comes into your head, and the tune is the And then, like a lot of the words, they just came out meat.

And then I just rolled into it. I don't believe in magic. And it was just going on in my head. And I don't know when I realized I was putting down all these things that I didn't believe. I Ching and Bible and the first three or four just came out whatever came out. I could have gone on, it was like a Christmas card list, you know. I thought, Well how where do I end? You know, Churchill and uh who have I missed out? It got like that, you know, and I thought I had to stop, you know.

And then I was going to leave a gap and say, just fill in your own, you know, for whoever you don't believe in. It was just getting gone out of hand, you know, so. But Beatles was the final thing because it's like I no longer believe in... Un myth, you know. And Beatles is another myth, you know. That's we are

In 1970, John Lennon started assembling musicians to record his new songs. That included Klaus Vormann. He was the bassist in Manfred Mann, and he was a longtime friend of the Beatles. He made the cover art for their album Revolver. Well, he asked me to be in the plastic owner band and I was knocked out. And then it came to now I'm gonna do the plastic owner band LP and you wanna do play on the session.

and when I heard Ringo was there, I was so happy. I mean I always wanted to play with Ringo, and I never really had the chance up to then. Here's Ringo Star. We were just sort of jammed. and then we'd find out how they would sort of go and we did'em. It was very loose actually. It uh and it being a trio also was a lot of fun. In spite of all the things that Beatlers really could play music together when they weren't uptight

And if I get a thing going, Ringo knows where to go in a like that. We've played together so long that it fits So the three of them started recording at Abbey Road Studios in London. Well on this session he always came in with the songs. I think the first version he did was playing it on a guitar. I mean we were in the sitting in the studio and he was playing We never heard the songs before. Ringo hasn't heard it. I hadn't heard. Okay.

What key was that, Klaus? D. D. We'll take one and then we'll let me listen. I haven't got a a concept in my head about this other than it's meant to be gospel and it doesn't sound anything like it, you know. What no I don't like it like this at all. In fact I don't feel in the mood for any of this. Yeah, we could do it's just such a shame to come in all the way and sprout about for two hours and then go, you know. Yes, yes. Maybe I should play it on piano you know. He really liked it.

I can play piano even worse than I play guitar. So that's a limited palette as they call it, you know. I have to think in terms of go from C to A, you know like that and uh I'm not quite sure where I am half the time. So it's it's that kind of feel about it, you know? Sorry, I fucked the end. I liked all that beginning.

I always liked simple rock and nothing else, you know. I was influenced by acid and got psychedelic, you know, like the whole generation. But really I like rock and roll, you know. When you just hear the piano does it all for you, your mind can do the rest of it. If you've got an ear, you can hear Any musician will tell you, just play a note on a piano. It's got all them harmonics in it. So we got to that, you know. What the hell? I didn't need anything else. Hey, that sounded great to me.

Oh but you the plane was tremendous. Is it too fast? Well that's it. Stop it now.

And then he went back to the guitar and asked me, Klaus, you play the piano. And I can't really play rock and roll piano really well. I mean I learned classical piano, but I played a few little licks that sort of were a little gospel like. And I think that's the moment where they clicked with him, why don't we ask Billy Preston to come in and play? Well John Lennon to me was the boss beetle. Ha ha.

He was really a character. He was uh witty and just a lot of fun. He just did whatever he wanted, what he felt like he was doing, you know. Yeah, John was the boss beetle. Billy Preston was a Grammy-winning musician. He played organ, piano, and other keyboards as a session player in the 60s, with legends like Little Richard, Sam Cook, Ray Charles, and the Rolling Stones. He recorded with the Beatles on their laptops. This last May, fifteen years after his passing.

He was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. And this is him playing. I met the Beatles in 1962 when I was on tour with Little Richard. I was playing organ for Little Richard, and they were opening act on the show. And uh we played one show in Liverpool and then we went to Hamburg, Germany for two weeks and that's where we really became good friends. We hung out there and I used to get'em free cokes and steaks. Yeah.

at the club because I was with Richard so I can get things, you know. And uh they would always hang around me and ask me things about America and different things. So we became good partners. I love the man so much. And ringless. that he never heard Billy play Yeah. When he played, I feel that he's really holding back. And he's not playing the gospel piano as crazy as he can.

He really knew I have to do something that really supports this song, and as much as there is space for it, I do something, but he could have done much more, which wouldn't have fitted the song so well. And Ringo loves that to play it as simple as you possibly can. And that's the same with the It was perfectly clear what we were going to play. And at the moment when John starts singing a song and you hear his voice and you hear what he's saying, you automatically What you have to play.

The simplicity of what Klaus and I played with him gave him a great opportunity to actually, for the first time, really And his emotion how he could, you know. I don't believe in Taret! Ringo always said in interviews that he never plays the same Philly And he says, if you ask me to play that same fill again, he's a good one. He can only do what he feels at the time. We just clicked together and it was just And you know, Ringo actually said the way we played that the best band But just believe.

In me. We went in the control room and listened to one take and he said, just believe in me.

And then he came up to me and said, Klaus, do you think I should say Yoko and me? And then I told John, look, that's a question I cannot answer for you. You know, that's something you have to know by yourself. Not lots of people know Yoko, but she is very delicate and very fine feeling, and her presence was really good. It was fantastic for John, and it was good for us too.

you know, that lots of people were opposed to it and they fell like John are gone nuts or something, being with yoko and all this, you know. It was terrible. It was a terrible situation. I mean the very, very first time when Yoko came in, and Ringo hadn't seen much of Yoko, he was very upset. We all had our wives and our families and then you know, we'd go to work and come back. Living in the studio with us. It it freaked us out, freaked me out anyway.

Because he had his John from the Beatles and now she suddenly had John and Yoko. And he had a hard time to get used to this but John was really good. He went up to Ringo and said, Look, Ringo, you know me, but now it's Yoko and me. We both are together, and that's how it is. And that made him feel much better. And then the next days everything was fine.

And I asked him, I said, You know, what is going on? He says, Uh well, you know, we're gonna spend every minute together. So as soon as you knew that, you were cool. And that's what they did. You could tell it was a lovely companionship. They were always holding and, you know, kissing and dancing around. They were always together. There's nothing more important than our relationship. Nothing.

Both of us could survive apart. But what for? No. I'm not gonna sacrifice love, real love, for any friend or any business Because in the end, you're alone at night and I neither of us want to be, and nothing works better than to have somebody you love hold you. But just believe that That's reality.

John never liked his voice and when he was with the Beatles he always put lots of effects on his voice to cover up that because he thought the voice didn't sound good. That's what he thought.

It used to get a bit embarrassing in front of George and Paul'cause we know each other so well. Oh, look he's trying to be Elvis, oh he's doing this now, you know. We were a bit super critical of each other, so we inhibited each other a lot. But this time it was my album Rydyn ni'n ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud ymwneud. The dream's over. You know, I'm not just talking about the Beatles is over, I'm talking about the generation thing.

You know, the dream's over like it's over, you know, and we gotta well I have anyway personally gotta get down to So called reality. John actually he was really trying to say something with his I don't believe. He meant that sort of belief where people, for example, are in despair and the last thing they ask for is uh Ah God help me, I believe in you. And that's what he doesn't believe in.

He says the help you only get out of yourself. You can't ask for anybody to give it to you. And that's what you have to do. And if you don't believe in yourself, you're fucked. John was very, very spiritual guy and he He had a big heart and he was very sincere in what he did and what he stood for. Always brave. He would put it out there. And the consequences sometimes were were very harsh, but he would always put it out there. Yeah, and that's why you could not not love him.

You're born in pain, you know, and pain is what we're in most of the time. And I think the the bigger the pain, the more gods we need, you know. Creating is a result of pain too. I have to do that. And I write songs, you know. Because that's the thing I chose to do. I can't help writing them. That's the fact. And now, here's God by John Lennon in its entirety. Just believe in Visit Songexploder.net for more. You can find links to buy or stream God.

There's a new eight disc box set called John Lennon Plastic Ono Band, The Ultimate Collection, and a lot of the material in this episode, like the outtakes and the original home recording, can also be found on there. On the Song Exploder site, there's also a list of all the archival interview sources that were used to make this episode.

My deepest thanks to Yoko Ono and Sean Ono Lennon, and to Simon Hilton and Sam Gannon from John Lennon's Estate, and to Tim Plumley from Universal for the invitation to make this episode and for all their help in completing it. I have a new album of my own coming out on April twenty fourth. It's been about fifteen years since I last put out a full length, and this is the first one that'll be out under my own name, Rishike Herway.

I started making Song Exploder when I was feeling lost in my own music career. And then for over a decade, I've gotten to have these incredible conversations about the process of making music, talking to other artists. And it made me completely rethink my relationship with music and my way of writing songs.

It features contributions from some of my favorite artists, including some folks that you may have heard on this podcast, like Iron and Wine, Kevin Morby, Vagabond, Fenn Lilly, and the producer Phil Weinrobe. I'm gonna be on tour playing in cities across the US starting in April, and I'm trying to bring

Of the podcast with me. So every show that I'm playing will begin with a conversation about the album with a different amazing guest moderator in each city, like Adam Scott, Simeen Nosrat, Jason Manzukis, Josh Molina, Mind. John Roderick, Austin Cleon, and more. They're all gonna be my conversation partners on stage. And then I'll play with my band. The album is called In the Last Hour of Light, and the first couple songs are out now. You can listen to

Tickets for the shows on my website, rishicash.co, or just go to songexploder.net/slash live. That's song exploder. Thanks. Thanks to Shopify for their support of Song Exploder. When I first started the podcast, it seemed like I had to figure out everything on my own. Booking interviews, making the artwork, making the website, and every day there was a new question that needed an answer.

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It now. And for 10% off your first year's membership, go to distrokid.com/slash VIP/slash song exploder. Thanks to Wayfair for their support of Song Exploder. They have everything you need for your house or your apartment or wherever you live. I was just going through my old emails to look up all the stuff that I've gotten from Wayfair over the years. and even I'm surprised by how wide the range is. The first thing I ever got was a laundry basket, and then an outdoor light for my front door,

And more recently, I've gotten a couple rugs, a circular rug for under my dining table and one for outdoors. Right now in my cart, I've got these expandable bamboo dividers so that I can organize my dresser drawers. Honestly, you can find so much stuff there. And coming up, they've got Wayday, which is the sale to shop the best deals in home. We're talking up to 80% off with fast and free shipping on everything.

So head to Wayfair.com from April 25th through April 27th to shop Wayday. That's W-A-Y-F-A-I-R.com. Wayfair. Every style, every home. Uh uh. This episode was produced by me and Christian Kuhnz. My interview with Klaus Wermann was engineered in Germany by Michael Bartlewski. Editing help came from Craig Ely and Casey Deal. Music clearance by Kathleen Smith. and the episode artwork was made by Carlos Lerma.

Song Exploder is a proud member of Radiotopia from PRX, a network of independent, listener-supported, artist-owned podcasts. You can learn more about all our shows at radiotopia.f. You can follow me on Twitter and Instagram at Rishi Hereway, and you can follow the show at Song Exploder. You can also get a Song Exploder t-shirt at Songexploder.net slash shirt. I'm Rishikesh Hirway. Thanks for listening.