Trevor Immelman

last week and all things President's Cup. So really excited for everybody to get Trevor's ideas and takes on last week. But before we jumped to the interview, let's talk about and thank our newest partner for Wellness. If you heard me talk about them last week, then you know I've been a big fan of theirs for a long time. I've been rinking the coffee. It's my go to cup every morning and when I'm teaching at the Flow. It

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it a try. They even back every purchase with a sixty day money back guarantee. Again, that's code c H three at four Wellness dot Com Backslash Podcast. So now let's get to the interview with the International President's Cup captain Trevor Immelman. All right, my guest is the cat of the International President's Cup Team, Trevor. I went to the first President's Cup, believe it or not. That's how old I am. I think I remember it because one it was at R t J. My dad was working

with Greg Norman at the time. But I remember I went to the movie theater and saw Forest Gump in the movie theater. It's how old I am, trev Even though you guys didn't get the victory again, it seems to me that there's finally some momentum for this international team. Um with the way you know they performed down in Australia a couple of years ago and then it seems like there's a there's a team. UM. Do you feel that? Yeah? Yeah. First of all, great to join you man. Always always

enjoy chatting with you, bro. But we do feel that. I think all of our squad members feel that Australia was huge for us. Captain Else was the perfect captain at the perfect time to really jump in there with some power and some backbone and make some changes that we desperately needed and had needed for a number of years.

And he built this foundation for us, and we knew what the plans were, the blueprints are, and carm Nita and I just wanted to try and pick up that ball and run with it and add a few bricks to that foundation so that for cups to come, you know, eventually this house is going to be built. Eventually, we're gonna win this thing. We feel like we we have the plans in place, we have the people and the

support staff in place. And then also on top of that and probably more importantly, quite honestly, because it's the players who win this thing. We're started to see so much talent come through from around the world. So if we can find a way to harness that talent get them comfortable playing in these team events, then you know, we think we're gonna get this done eventually. I it seems really really trivial. It I think the changing of the logo in the shield was a huge, huge part

of this shift because it was the international team. The colors were always weird. It never really kind of you played in oh five and oh seven, it it kind of made sense, it kind of didn't make sense. But this, this logo, the way that you guys dressed all in black, it to me there seems to be an identity building for for an international team, which, as you know, Trevor having played and now having captain the US, it's easy

for the guys to come together, right. They play for the United States, they play for America, the US a chance. I mean, all that stuff is real, um, the fanatics which are fun, um, But I really feel like and and watching that there is an identity that guys coming into this every couple of years can touch and feel. And I think the logo, the clothing, the way it's being don now is giving the team something that I didn't see it having. Yeah, there's no doubt about that.

It was always a tricky thing for US. You know, we would be blending people from seven eight nine different countries and in a lot of ways they would come there representing their country rather than coming there to represent our team. And so I thought it really was a pretty genius move from Ernie two. Want to step away from that and create something to where Okay, I don't care if you come from Japan, China, Australia, South Africa, Canada, wherever.

When you come to the President's camp, you are not representing those countries. You're representing the Shield. And the way he went about that process told that story. Um, you know, leaned on friends of his that are in Special forces and stuff like that to design this logo that actually means something for us. We had a picture up in our team cabinet the golf course that explained exactly exactly

what goes into the formation of this logo. And the players, you know, organically and from a grassroots level, are starting to see that and buy into that, and that's that really is the big difference. So you know, this this one. What we did for the first time that was quite interesting was, uh, it was the first time we actually wore team colors. We had the shield down in Australia last time, but we still had some green and a few different colors that we would wear in our uniforms.

And one of the changes I wanted to make was we were going to come to Charlotte and we were actually going to wear team colors, so Wednesday for the official photo that was That was the first time we wore black and gold for our official photo. Um, I didn't quite have the guts in the planning to throw the black and gold in on a tournament day because I wasn't sure how it was going to look. But I think it turned out pretty good. Maybe we'll throw

that in there on tournament days next time. But yeah, they're all black was for a number of reasons. Um. Number one, you know it's our it's our main color. The black and number two was a little bit of a nod to the greatest international player ever, Gary Player. He used to wear all black on Sundays when he was coming down the stretch. He's been kept in a number of times at this event, somebody that means something to us, So it had a bit of a duel

meaning there. Um. But yeah, it's been an incredible process. It really has to be able to see guys buy into the Shield, buy into what this team stands for, and most importantly want to represent the Shield and and protect it at all costs. That for me has probably been the most rewarding thing through this process you played,

you've been a captain. Um, how different? I mean very few people, Um get to do that, get to play on a tider cop on, a president's cop on, a walker cop on, you know, and play as a player and then do it as a captain. Talk us through tever. How different the experiences as a captain versus a player. I mean, obviously the planning you had, you know, with COVID you had more time to plan. There's the planning

side of it. But the feeling as as as a human being as a person, the difference between being a player in this event and captain ng the team in this event. What are the emotions and the feelings that you felt last week that were different than when you played. Yeah, the planning is the huge part. Like you said, we had the extra year and this kind of bleeds into

the previous question as well. Um, you know, the American team is such a jargonaut and America as a country is such a powerful force and every athlete that has ever represented the U S and WA on the red, white, and blue h you know, the brand is so huge, and so that was that was one of the things that we wanted to add into this was how could we find a way through the use of the shield now to be able to have some merchandise out there to where people can, uh, you know, jump on our team,

support us. One of the things that always struck me was, you know, for me, one of the beauties of the U S is you can go to any quarters. So you can go to seven eleven right now and you can buy a piece of merchandise with with the stars and stripes on it, with an eagle on its something that that donates America. Yeah, it's so cool. And I was like, shocks, we don't have anywhere where even if we found a fan and by the way, we represent

billions of people all over the world. Even if people wanted to support us, there was nowhere they could go to buy some merch with the shield on. So, you know, that was part of the planning, That was part of building the brand and creating this franchise. That added, uh a lot of work in the planning stages trying to find a way to get get all of that done and then you know you really move on to Okay, how can I make this experience the greatest golfing experience?

For each and every one of these players and team members, whether it be support staff, caddies, wives, everybody. So, I mean, you've spent a lot of time with communitor, you know how talented she is from that aspect, how dedicated she is. She thinks about every little details, very detail orientated. And so we just systematically went through, Okay, this is what the wives are going to have during the week, this

is the process they're going to go through. These are the ways we're going to support them, the things we're going to give them. And we just went down the line with caddies, support staff, and then most importantly players. Um, So, the planning aspect was huge. I was spending I'm wanting to say for the better part of two years. We will probably invest sing four to five hours a day

in the planning phase. But then once all of that's done, the golf balls in the air, you know, we get to Charlotte guys, guys are doing their work, and then really you're just trying to shepherd these guys, keep them in the right frame of mind, keep them happy, keep them loose and comfortable. And then really the job gets a lot easier outside of the pics and trying to create the matchups that you think could give you the

best possible chance when the tournament kicks off. But once we got to the tournament, the work was pretty much over. It was just um, you know, more a standpoint of keeping these guys in the zone. Playing is totally different, because playing you come there very single minded. You come there a little anxious about, Okay, how many times am I going to play? So one of the things I did was I let guys know before the week that you know, this is how many times it looks like

you're gonna play. These are your partners. Um, we always have to be ready for adjustments. If somebody gets sick, somebody gets injured, somebody starts making fifty foters on every hole, we've got to be ready to be numble. But for the most part, this is the format you're looking like, you're plan These are the guys that you're gonna be playing with. So we tried to prepare them as much as we could for that. But as a player, yeah, you come there single minded. You're trying to learn the

golf course. You're trying to deal with the pressure, deal with the crowds, deal with people rooting against you and so, UM, you know, you come in there with a real narrow focus, whereas as a captain, you come in there more looking at it from thirty thou feet being observants, saying, Okay, I need to make a little tweak here. This seems to be moving in the right direction. I like what this is doing, so let's keep doing that. Uh, this is a complete disaster. We're gonna have to fix this

here in the next thirty minutes. So, UM, it's much more of an overall observational view. UM, just pulling a few strings here or there. You've become very very close with Dabo Sweeney, the head football coach at Clemson. UM. He is, without a doubt, one of the best football coaches in the country. UM. How much as a captain and as a leader did you take from your relationship with Dabo in the way that he does things? Because

we we talked about it before we started. UM, your press conference on Saturday night, the way you gave your answers, the answers you were giving, the things that you were talking about reminded me a lot of a head football coach of a head basketball coach, the way that they're leading a program. Um, did you talk to Dabo in In in the time coming up to this? Did you have conversations with him last week during the event. I speak to him all the time. He's become a really

really close friend of mine. I did not speak to him last week because the Tigers have got a couple of big weeks ahead of him, plan wake for us UM away last week and then playing a top tennis team North Carolina State, so he's had his head down in the weeds, really graft in making sure that these guys already. I will say that I spent the two previous weekends in Clemson, went to the first two home games, spent a ton of time with him and with the team.

Actually spoke to the team on the Thursday before UH their game a couple of weeks ago. And yeah, I've learned a lot from him, a lot a lot from observing the way he does things um and then spending you know, one on one quality time with him. We we we spent four days together down in the Bahamas before the PGA Championship, So I do get a lot of time where we have the ability to go back and forth and pick each other's brain and start to

understand the little things that work. And he asked me a much as much about golf and things that I've learned from people I've been able to hang around, like you know, Tiger and all the best players, stuff that I've observed that those athletes do. And so the two of us are constantly learning from each other. But you know, one of the things about him that has always struck me is, uh, you know, winning is important. When his winning is extremely important, It's it's why we compete. But

for Dabbo, it's not the most important. The most important thing is raising good men, helping raise good men. And you know where his role in my role was a little different was, Um, you know, I'm dealing with professional athletes. I'm dealing guys with guys in their twenties, thirties and forties, whereas he's dealing with kids right out of high school, so they're still in their formulative years. And his number one priority is raising good citizens and raising good men. Um.

And that's something that really always has struck me. That's that's the thing that he focuses on most and from there he believes that they will be able to make the right decisions and once they have those things in place, then it's easier for you to fulfill your potential out on the field of play because there's much less conflict in your heart and in your brain. So so you know, that's something that really he has impressed on me a

lot over the last decade or so. It's it's one of the things that that I really focused on, was how can you manage your personnel. You know, I can't treat some Jim the way I treat Adam Scott, the way I treat Taylor Pendrous, the way I treat Seawoo Kim. You know, you've got to understand your players. You've got to understand what makes them tick. You've got to understand how to put them in their sweet spot so they can go out there and play free without anything holding

them down. And uh, and that was what I tried to do. That was really the thing that I focused on most. We I remember sitting in your apartment um in London, what was it, oh two, and we were watching the Ryder Cup at the Belfry, the one that Paul McGinley hold that pot, and we were I mean, I think when I look back at the US Ryder

Cup team and talking about the captain c thing. There seemed to be a time with the US to where the captain wanted to come in and kind of stamp his authority on the players and kind of say, listen, this is this is the way we do things. UM and the players, I think in talking to them and being around some of these Ryder Cup teams that I've been lucky enough to be around, the players were kind of like, hey man, just can we just do what we do? Just let us do what we do. And

I think the Europeans always did that. I think Paul McGinley was the best example of that um at at Glenn Eagles when Victor Dubisson, who's who is a very interesting character. Victor kind of wanted to be on his own program, and Tom Watson that year was very much kind of doing the Tom Watson old school role, which

we all know how that kind of turned out. But in talking to Paul, Paul said that he went to all of the players and said, listen, you tell me what you need from us so that you can perform your best. And you know when I look at you know. And in talking about Dabbo trev Um, if Dabo came in and said to the program, Okay, no tattoos, no earrings, no dreadlocks. This is the way we did things in nineteen seventy. There's no music. This is which they lose

the players now. And I think that the US Ryder Cup team has done a fantastic job in the last couple of years as to letting the players be the players. Um, I thought it whistling straits. The players basically did what they what they normally do, and this is gonna sound not from an area. They did what they wanted to do because they know what they do best to perform.

And I think the one thing that everybody doesn't realize about the international team for the President's Cup is you're bringing all of these players in from different countries, but also you have a massive language barrier. Um, You've got to get k J. Choi, who can speak to all the Koreans. You've got to bring in a guy like Camillo to make um the guys that speak Spanish make them feel more comfortable, mitoum to make them feel that. Um. You have to let the players in individual sports be

themselves in the team format. And I think that's a really interesting balance because, as you said, Listen, you're dealing with professionals who are in an individual sport and every two years you're going, Okay, now you're part of a team. That's that's tough. And that's why think you know, I saw a lot of the stuff that I that I hear from Dabbo and stuff in in this this team concept, um,

and I know that's hugely important to you. Yeah. Yeah, Look, I learned a long time ago that forcing people to do something is not the best way to get their best out of them. You know, it just doesn't. You have to find a way to get people to buy in to what the common goal is and and then they'll give their best and then they'll be in a position to be able to reach their full potential. But trying to force people, whether it be through mandates or

rules or anything like that, it just doesn't work. It just doesn't work. And you know that was probably cemented in my mind, um, just with my kids growing and the way I decided eventually to to start parenting them is, you know, you you can't just enforce the law all the time. You have to be able to have an open and honest conversation and allow them to realize why

what you're saying is correct. And once they realized that, and that logic starts to kick in, and that belief starts to kick in, then they just want to do the right thing anyway. And you know, that's really the model we've gone with and why I said, you know, you you have to be able to understand your personnel. It's priority number one. And that's why I decided a couple of years ago that we would have we would

create a squad mentality. We would we would have twenty five guys that would be constantly coming to dinners, playing practice rounds, hanging out, flying together, um, just becoming more and more comfortable in each other's presence. And then you start to add the little things like, uh, you know, having a South American mentor they're like Camillo having a Korean mentor they're like kJ Mike, Jeff. These are all

people that have been there and done that. They've all been to the top of the game in some way, shape or form, and they're well respected not just because of their games, but because of the men that they are. And so it's very easily then for the golfers to fall in line and start to understand how those guys do things and why they do things, and it's it's

an extremely important part. And really, you know, it's not as important when you're on a run and you're playing well, but it was extremely important on Thursday night and particularly Friday night, when we're eight two down and really at this point now we're facing getting shut out in this

tournament being over on Saturday night. That's when that stuff really starts to kick in, because now these players are willing and able and interested and motivated in digging deeper than what they've ever gone before and finding out something new about themselves and about their teammates and about their captains and about their partners in the whole locker room. That to me is something that's extremely special. And you look at you know, you don't have to go that

far back. You just go to Whistling Straits and you consider that US team and you take a look at somebody like Scotty Scheffler, who at that point really was on the verge of making the US team. He wasn't a lock, he wasn't a luck by any means. There could have been four or five other players that Steve

Stricker picked instead of Scotty Scheffler. But Scottie Scheffler went there, he learned something about himself, if he learned something about his game, and man, within six months, he was the world's number one golfer, the Master's champion, he rilled off four wins in a season, was the player of the year. And the guy is just an absolute stud now. And I really do put that down to the experience that he had with those great players in great corps at

Whistling Straits. And I'm hoping that that somebody on our team, whether it's a song JM or a Sea woo uh. You know, a lot of these players, but Saden, how it goes out there and earns one and a half out at two points, you know, hopefully one of them found something inside themselves that you know, not necessarily that they didn't think was there, but um, they now know how to access it. They now know how to access it. And I look forward to seeing what the next twelve

months holds for those guys. So let's take a short break and we will be back right after this. All right, let's get back to the interview. He didn't get the wind that that I know that you and everybody in the international side wanted. Um, I think you were up against some difficult cumstances. Obviously in the current state of world golf affairs, with with all of the stuff going on, it would be easy to talk about for you as an international captain travel the players that you didn't have

at your disposal that could have helped. But the team that you had, man, I mean you there was some good performances. I mean we joked last year when I was working with Sea Who Kim before he fired me. You were like, hey, you gotta get see where going because you and I both know and if everybody listening doesn't know, Seawood tries and about half the tournaments, half the tournaments on the PGA Tour, right, I mean he gives up, he bones it in. He's one of the worst.

He will admit that too. You and I have talked about this. You were saying, you know all last year, come on, man, get and find some heart. I mean when Sea Who gave the Patrick read shushed the crowd thing people and I think this was really good as well. We saw the video that came out yesterday as Sung Jay doing the dance, which is one of the coolest things. Um, see who Tom Kim kge Lee. The Koreans genuinely outwardly to the fans are very very introverted, introspective that don't

kind of show any emotions. But you and I know, see who off the golf course is really funny. He's mischievous, he likes to talk smack. To see that out of him, I mean, that's That's one of the things I love about these team competitions. It brings out a part of a player's personality that you've never really seen before. Yeah,

for sure. Look as you said, he when I became captain, he was one of the guys that I hear marked that I thought, Okay, I have to have this to I have an incredible amount of respect for his golf game and his talent level I think he has. Ah. I want to say this in the right way, but there are very few golfers on the PGA Tour that have as high have a ceiling as Seawood Kimp. His best golf is can be put on a level with anybody. He just needs to find a way to be motivated

to allow that to happen. And so even though his results were a little lack cluster when I was making the picks. I saw enough out of him and the days when I called him and texted him and I was like, I need a good round today, always sixty five, sixty six. The guy is just he's able to turn it on when he's interested. So I knew that within our team struck show, we would be able to keep him engaged and keep him locked in. And I had belief that if we could do that, he could really

go out there and beat anybody. Um so, and I texted him. He called me on Monday to thank me for the week and thank me for picking him, and he told me that it was the best golfing week of his life. And I challenged him. I said to him, dude, you can play like that every time you play. You just gotta want to do it. And so that's going to be the thing for him. And he's one of those players that really could step up. But we've seen him when the players are ready. But he could win

a major, no problem. Just got to find a way to be engaged for four or five days. But yeah, the Koreans, let me tell you, they really became the heartbeat of our team. Like you say, amazing personalities, try their best to speak English at every single opportunity. D they throw themselves out there, which in a team environment, that's really what you need. You need the players to be vulnerable as soon as possible in the team room, because once everybody sees that these big names are able

to to be vulnerable, everybody buys in immediately. That's another thing that I learned from Dabbo and the Korean guys rarely did that by trying to speak English, by people having a laugh every now and then when they got the order of words mixed up, and then them having a laugh and um to a man, all four of those guys and kJ amazing humor, incredible humor and willing to make fun of everybody and themselves. Uh, just the best.

And we had these conduits there with Tom and with our Korean translator Jim Park, to where you know, they could aid us with some of the translation and and really bring the point across. So gosh, I told him all I was on a text chain with him and with with the Korean guys, and I told him, you know, they were the heartbeat of our team. And I'm so thankful that they stepped up in such a big way and contributed in such a big way to our team.

So um, my hats off to the man. Look, I know, as an international player coming from South Africa, I didn't have the language barrier that some of these players have. But you know, when you want to compete against the best, you realize that that happens on the PGA too. At an early age, I realized that happens on the PGA tour.

And at that point, you know that you're going to have to leave everything behind that you know and that you're comfortable with, whether you're from Korea, Australia, South Africa, and you're gonna have to ship yourself and your life and in some cases your family to the US and make that set to see if you can fulfill your dreams and uh and those guys do that. And you look at the Korean representation on the PGD turn, I'm one to say there's nine of ten players they're out

there on tour, so they're doing an incredible job. My hats off to kJ being being the godfather of it all and the job they're doing there at the KPg A, it's brilliant stuff. They're churning out some incredible talent and we're not even talking about the woman that dominate the game on the LPGA, So my hats off to them. You mentioned see Who Kim um and the intensity. If he could bring that all the time, you put him

out in the singles match against Justin Thomas. I mean the way that See Who played on Sunday, that fire, that fight, that intensity, That's what Justin Thomas brings on Thursday at the beginning of the year. I mean, Justin Thomas is that guy all the time? I thought that was a huge, huge win for See Who Um. We couldn't talk about last week without talking about one of

the superstars to come out of this, Tom Kim. I'm glad that I that I that I called you and told you in January after watching Tom played two rounds with DJ in Saudi Arabia, I said, he needs to be on your radar, and You're like, really, I was like this guy, Trevi, I was messaging U Joe Scabrin, who caddied for Ricky Fowler for you know, his whole career. He's on the back for Tom Kim. Now we were talking on Friday Saturday night. When you meet Tom, he

has something and you feel it in his personality. It's it's his smile, it's you sit and talk to him for five minutes. I don't know what it is, but the kid has it and we saw that last week. Yeah. Absolutely, I just want to back up real quick to see the respect we have for him and the belief we have in his gang. He was actually supposed to hit the first T shot on third day. I had prepared him for that. We were gonna send him and Cameron Davis out first and an alternate shot. See where was

going to hit the first T shot? But um, when Davis Um had deferred and made the change in the selection process and threw it on us, then we had to go to a different plan and strategy. But so we had prepared him all week actually to hit that first T shot on Thursday, So I knew he was going to be ready for it on Sunday when we threw him out there against Justin Thomas, and I knew he was going to have the guts to be able to handle that situation and stand up um to Justin.

You know, we know how how JT acts in these team events. We've got a pretty large sample size. He gets really pumped up. H He he is one of the guys that brings the energy on their team. He gets the crowd pumped up, and I knew, see who you had the guts to stand up to. Now did I think he was possibly going to take Justin Thomas down? There was there was. There was hope there for sure, because we needed it if we were going to win

the thing. But I knew that he wouldn't. I knew that Justin wouldn't be able to get into see Who's head, and that's why we sent him out first. Now going to Tom, Hey, I spent three years trying to get into see what head. It's impossible. It's impossible to get into that kid's head. You can't do it exactly. Now I go into Tom. Yeah, you know I I thanked you a few times in the media already. When I got that text for you, You're like, man, DJ's just

played a practice chunder with this kid, Tom Kim. He's unbelievable. You've got to check him out. And I started paying attention from that moment. And he had a win and a couple of seconds and a third on the Asian Tour and at that time he's nineteen exactly right, but he's been a pro since he was like sixteen or seventeen, so he had a few years under his belt and then he started getting some starts in some bigger events,

some real events, and immediately made an impact. Um and you know the way he performed at the Scottish Open against you know, one of their biggest fields of the year and had an amazing shot to win all the way through that Sunday in the final group, made his way into the Open and that was when the first time I met him in person. I went out on the Wednesday and he and see who were playing a practice shound together, so texted with you. I was like, you know, let me know when you guys tee of

from come out there and walk some holes. And I met them on the fourth fairway and he's in the fairway Tom. The whole location is back right, wind is whipping and he just pures this high cut four iron into the middle of the green and I was like, man, you know, first shot I ever seen from this kid, and it's just pure right right where he's looking. And walked with them for a few holes and immediately you can feel there's something a little different about him. He

has a present, he has self belief whilst still being humble. Um, and he has he has this mentality where he doesn't shy away from the limelight. You know, he wants the ball when it matters most. And you know, you don't see that all that often. You see a lot of great athletes that make an incredible living, but they're just like to be able to cruise just under the frame and do well and have top tens and you know, finish on podium and uh and never rarely put themselves

out there. And it's not really a knock on them. It's more about putting itself out there is damned difficult and it's demanding, and there's a lot that comes with it, and it's it's a strain mentally, and there's a lot of an anxiety that comes with that, and so it's not necessarily a knock on that athlete. But I'm just saying, when you find the ones that that asked for that and want that and demand that, those ones are special.

Those ones are really special. And when you match that with supreme talent is you know, when you find the magic and this kid has that. This kid has that. And all week we were we were saying to him, you want that part to win the Cup. And I'll be like, I want that part, I want that part. I'm gonna make that putt and then lo and behold. He didn't have the putt to win the Cup, but he had a part that was vital to us on Saturday evening. Did you think he was gonna make it?

I had no doubt he was gonna make it. You know. You know what was so impressive to me, Claude. So I was kind of running around. Um, it's very difficult as captain to know where you need to be, and you just going by instinct and you're going by guts, and you're listening to the radio and you're starting to

try and understand. And they got to seventeen, all square, and I joined uh him and see we're in the fairway on seventeen and I went up and I you know, gave him a pat on the shoulder and I was like, come on, we need you know, we need this point. And he's like, I got it, I got it, I got it. They tie seventeen. Um, they hit their t shots down eighteen. He hits the straight one. But as we're walking off the tees, like I whipped that I'm

gonna be so far back. So we're walking over the hill and now you know, both teams are starting to follow because everybody realizes this is this is a pivotal moment. It was one of the most intense moments I've ever felt on a golf course. The energy was like you could it was hitting you hard. We get to his ball and the guy's got like two thirties seven or something like that. I mean, he's got two. I'm wanting to say to twenty two to cover that front left

bunker and see who's out in the right trees. And we're trying to figure out who should play first in the better ball format. You know, does Tom want pressure on him knowing where see who's ball is or does he want sea whoo as a little bit of insurance. And we get word from sea Where that he's got a shot. He thinks he could get it up near the green. It's taking a little while and Tom's just says to me, tell him, I'm gonna go, Like he couldn't wait anymore. He said, tell him, I'm gonna go.

So Camillo's down our radio. Camilla, I said, Tom's going, So see who um stands back for a little while, and the kid pulls the two iron now and Joe says to him, perfect club, normal two iron. And he gets over the ball and I look back and I see three cuts of Americans fifteen yards from him, like just off of the line, like they're right there, right there, you can feel them. It's the who's who have American golf. It's Thomas, it's Speed, it's Homer, it's for Now, it's

all their wives, it's the caddies. I mean, You've got three golf carts packed with the best players in the world and they are like steps from this kid. And then you've got all the American vice captains who are all made, you know, who have all one major championships and all that. And he slocked this two iron, Dude, as it took off, that ball was never going to be outside of fifteen feet. And and that goes back

to what I was saying earlier. Some people really want that moment and others, you know, are looking for ways to shy away from it. And after he hits the shot, I walk up to him, I put my up on him, and I'm like, that was incredible, that was incredible. But I wanted him to stay focused, because the energy all of a sudden was like, man, We've got a shot at this now. And I just said to him, make that put stay focused and make that putt and uh.

And then afterwards we obviously got to him during the week the amount of times we said to him do you want to do you want that putt to win the Cup? Because afterwards with the media asked him about it, he said, he said, I wanted to make that put more than anything in the world. And it just goes to show Um somehow we got to him with with all of that during the week. But the kid is an absolute stud. I'm extremely excited to see what his

future halls. He reminds me, trev Um. If you think about the coming out party that Sergio Garcia had um early on in his career at Madina, and then the way he played in the in the Wryter Cups, he was you know, you were part of the young guns with him and Scotty back in the day, and it was that youthful kind of innocence mixed with confidence and arrogance and all of that. And I looked all last week reminded me so much of what happened to Sergio at a very young age in his career to where

he came out. He was running around, he was jumping around. Everybody liked him. Um, he his energy was infectious. Um. Do you think that an opportunity like this for Tom can give him that springboard now to say, okay, I can use this to help me get to the next level. Yeah, there's no doubt. There's no doubt. We used to Scottish Cheffler analogy earlier, comparison earlier, and um, I throw that

in there. The one caveat is, uh, if you look at the difference between those two players as we're using them as examples, you know, Scottish Cheffler is a very very powerful player. Still hits it a long way, hits it extremely high, can fire at any pin wherever it is, and has the short game to match. Then has the intangibles. Tom has the intangibles, He has the desire, he has

the heart and the guts. He has the skill level from a standpoint of accuracy, owning one shot that he knows he can rely on that baby fade, the thing that's going to be interesting for me to to see, and the one hurdle that I believe he still has to overcome is um. He doesn't quite have the power. So he was the second shortest hitter on our team, him and Bosadon with the two shortest hitters, and I thought it was a good sign that he acquitted himself so well on a big ballpark like Quail holler Um.

He has a bit more of a knuckley ball flight um and needs conditions to be firm and will be extremely dangerous when you look at golf courses like sedge Field where he won the Windom or Colonial or Sony places like that. But it's going to be interesting to see if over the next few years he can continue to generate a little speed to match everything else to where he can bridge the gap. I mean, you look at Ah just that match and who they were playing against.

You know he's going in with two iron. And then the next match that came through there, the Burns Scott h Davis Horsal match. Burns had a hundred and fifty yards into that whole on eight team and Tom had two seven. So it just goes to show, you know, it really is tough to keep up because Sam Burns and and Homer and Thomas and Scheffler, like, those guys have all the skills and they have the power to match that. So that to me is the final hurdle

for Tom. You know he's only twenty, but it'll be very interesting to see if he can start to harness a little more power to where he can bridge that gap and instead of having I know he whipped that T shirt. He told me so in his own words, but instead of seven, can he be inside of two hundred to where he still has some kind of medium iron in there because of a very difficult for him

over the course of four days. We would be at a major US Open and a Master's when it's not firm and fast for him to keep up with with the big guns. Two other players, young players tribe that I thought were standouts, Cam Davis and Sebastian Mono. So the way those two guys played, um, they are legit stunts. I mean when I watch I mean Cam Davis obviously, and talking about Tom, um, Tom isn't you know he's

by no means big, He's by no means long. When you look at Cam Davis, Cam Davis is the prototypical two p G A tour player. He's six to the six four hits it. Miles hits it to the sky. Can you know can hit seven iron from to fifteen if he needs to. And then you've got a kid

like Sebastian Munos who was a great ball striker. Talk to me about the contributions that those two guys were because I thought the match that that that Cam Davis down the stretch with Scotty on the team, Scotty you know, as his partner, and I thought some of the shots Sebastian Manials pulled off. Um, we're really really fantastic for those two players. Yeah. Look, a lot of people, a lot of people outed me, a lot of people laughed at me. I got a lot of hate on Twitter

when I made those picks. I went a long way down the line. Cam Davis was twenty in our qualification criteria,

Monos was thirteen or fourteen? See who was eighteen? But I knew, just in getting to know those players over the last couple of years, all the time that I had spent with them, getting a look under the hood, understanding what makes them tick, knowing what their strengths and weaknesses are in their games, I knew they were going they had the potential to be eight fits with Quail Hollow and with the canvas that we were going to have to work with uh Cam Davis, particularly the way

he handled himself at the end of our qualification period when we had a lot of question marks, we didn't know exactly who was going to be on our team. He he He stepped up as an alternate and knew that if certain players leave, he was going to get the call. And it didn't disappoint him. It fired him up even more and it showed me how much he loved our team, how much he wanted to play for the Shield, and how much he wanted to be at

the President's Cup. I learned a lot about him in that um time period, and he just kept telling me in the weeks leading up to the President's Cup, like I love match play. I played so much match play when I was a kid down in Australia. It brings something special out of me. I love knowing, you know, looking at my opponent, feeling that one on one dynamic. And he really was jazzed about it, and he was

coming out of his shell more and more. He's quite a He's the most introverted aussy I've ever met in my life. Okay, No, normally auzzies are you know, they're out there. They're confident. Um they they'll let you know exactly how they think. He's not that way. He's much more reserved and and and introverted. But he was starting to come out of his shell. And it was amazing to see his confidence build and him and see, we're really pulled off a beautiful upset on the first day

of the tournament to get us our point. And yeah for for him and Scotty the team up. I knew that that had had the potential to be a pretty good pairing because Cam you know, idolizes Scotty and and and watched him when he was a kid growing up. And the opportunity for him to be able to show wolf for one of his mentors, I knew that could

could bring something special out of him. And the way he played those last three holes with the high cut three wood into sixteen buries, the ten foot for eagle, seventeen hits it in there eight feet buries that part, uh for them to be one up and then to make the part on eighteen to win that point. You know, So the eagle Birdie Birdie finish was just it was fantastic. I think one of the coolest moments that our team has ever had. Moonos, I love that guy, man, I

love that guy he is. He's like a peaceful warrior. He he's very calm and quiet. He was he was a calming influence in the locker room. Ah. But he has like this underlying toughness. And I thought, you know, our team came a long way last week if you look at him in some Jay's partnership from a data perspective, they matched up beautifully with this golf course. And the fact that they went out there and and one that

point together shows how far our team has come. We've got a Colombian guy and a Korean guy teaming up and and taking down a strong American pair. Uh. And then we just had a feeling about him in the singles. Um. You know, we had an idea of who we wanted to play who in an ideal world, and we had different options with each player. He's played a ton of golf in Dallas with Scottie Scheffler, so we knew he

would be comfortable with that matchup. Uh. And man, did he step up to the player take down the world number one. What a moment for him, so so so proud of him. And to see that moment where him and his dad were hugging afterwards and his dad just in tears, so proud of his kid taking down the world number one man. Money can't buy that. That is stuff that the dreams are made of. Yeah, and we you know, I was at the Wryder Cup at Whistling Straits and the same thing you you referenced at Scottie

Scheffler and the Singles takes down John Ram. Everybody on that US team was going up to him afterwards, going you just beat the best player in the world. And like you said, you could see this being a springboard for a guy like Sebastian Munis to take that confidence for beating a guy like Scottie Scheffler, who is you know, one of, if not the best players in the game right now. You mentioned Adam Scott Hadeki, Montzi Yama. They are kind of the superstars of your international team. Scotty

is one of your your closest friends. He's been a part of the the international team for pretty much forever. It seems like. Talk to me about the role that Scotty and her Deckie played last week. They didn't have they didn't go undefeated, they didn't have the superstar rules. Um I think, I mean, I can't. I can't think of how many times I saw her Deckie miss potts by. I mean, he hit so many good pots that didn't

go in. But the role that those guys played from a team aspect and from a mentor aspect to these younger generation of international players, yeah, I was huge. It's huge. Those were out too playing captains if you wish. They were extremely involved in our decision making process from before the tournament. They were clued in on exactly what our different plans were and the ways that we were gonna try and run our team, and they gave their input constantly.

It was extremely important for me for them to be very involved from the outset number one, because of my respect for them and what they've achieved in the game. Number two, understanding their personalities and how high of a golf i Q they have. But number three also these guys are future captains, so I wanted to bring him into the fray as much as I could so they could start to understand exactly how this team operates. For when they get the opportunity. Um, there was a tough

one for a decade. He didn't come in with his game firing on all cylinders. He felt a little uncomfortable with his putter, and the green complexes at Coil Hollow are some of the toughest that we see all year on tour, extremely undulating and lightning quick. I mean, these things were running thirteen on a flat put every morning. So you start to add some slope to that, a one to slope to thirteen. It rarely exposes you if you're not feeling comfortable with your stroke and the role

and the ball. So he was fighting that a little bit. He was also fighting a right hip injury. UM. We were managing that constantly, trying to stay on top of how much he was going to be able to play. He was a question mark in a number of sessions. But he showed a lot of guts and kept coming to me saying, I'm ready to go, I'm ready to go, I'm ready to go. And so I have a lot of respect for him and I'm thankful to him for doing that. Uh. And we put him out early on Sunday.

We knew that the Americans after us. Uh, you know, shall I say we pumped the brakes a little bit on Saturday. I mean it still wasn't that close with four points behind going into Sunday, but we pumped the brakes a little bit on them, and they they had to be smart with where they were going with their lineup on Sunday, and we knew they would trying to come out early and uh and get some points, so we threw her decide out there. He played extremely well,

got totally screwed on the eighteen tole. You know, for people who didn't see that, he hits a quite a nice t shut down the left hand side on the dog leg left. What's up doing doing standing there? You know, I'm gonna say this first, I really hope the gentleman's knee is okay, because for a driver to land without bouncing on your kneecap has to be excruciating. But yeah, the fact that he's standing, you know, lands on your knee, you know you're staying in the wrong damn place. What

is he doing? I mean that t shot Claude would have landed there and probably bounded another twenty yards down the fairway. He's got an eight nine wedge in his hand to a very easy accessible whole location on eighteen. This ball hits the guy's knee, kicks back and into the trees. So now he's got a brutal shot. He gets this flyer over these trees, over the back, then hits a miraculous chip shot that how that ball hits the middle of the flagstick and doesn't go in, rattles

around it stays out, eventually gets the half. But man, he got pretty screwed there on eighteen. I felt bad for him because he was he knew how important that point was for us if we really wanted to to put a little pressure on him, and he acquitted himself really well. Scotty. Yeah, you know, like you said, he's one of my best mates. We met each other when when we were fourteen or fifteen years old, have competed with each other since that moment, and you know, we

know a lot about each other. We've shared a lot of different things about our lives, what we've been through. We've become extremely close and he really has been a rock for me through my captaincy. Um. You know, it was tricky at times when everybody was saying that he was he was not going to be on the team. He was going to be leaving, he was gonna be going somewhere else, and I was getting all this stuff thrown at me all the time, and I knew he

wouldn't go. And anyway, the guy committed to me way back in the process, and he was all in and invested. We would have weekly calls about our team, about the decisions we were making, about the way things wanted to go, we wanted things to go. And what I thought was so special about him and showed his true heart and character, was about six weeks before the end of our qualification, he said to me, you're not going to pick me for this. I'm going to qualify on my own. And

he added PGA Tour events to his schedule. He traveled more, which you and I both know Scotty. Scotty's on the old Tigers schedule. You know, he likes to play fifteen events a year max. He's Howard. He he's the Howard Hughes of gone. So you know, he adds Rocket Mortgage, he adds Windham just to get into the playoffs. Now he knows he's given himself a shot um to earn some more points. He finished, he played good he did.

He finished top five in those both two playoff events, qualifies himself for the Tour Championship, coming from nowhere before before that and earned his way onto the team. And that you know, it didn't just show me so much. It showed everybody else on our team, everybody in our squad. It showed if that guy, if this guy, like a future Hall of Famer, wants to make this team that badly, then we got to bring it to and so man,

he he was a huge part of it. I'm extremely thankful to everything he did for me while while I was keptain. So the obvious question, trev Um, I know how your brain works. Do you want to do it again?

Would you be the captain again? Or is it a one and dawn Um, is that what you think is best for the international team moving forward to get a guy like Adam Scott in to get these guys or I mean I think you are you are the perfect person for this role, Um, just with the not only with the way that your brain works, but as a former Master's champion, a guy that's beaten Tiger Woods down the stretch, a guy that's played all over the world, a guy that's now you know, going to be in

the chair next to Jim Nance you know at CBS. UM. You know, I messaged you earlier in the week and I and I meant it. I look at your career and I look at you know when you and I met each other, and it was a two thousand and two the things that you've done. But I know how your brain works, and I know that you will have loved doing this job. If they wanted you to do it again, would you do it? I would, I would, But I don't know if it's the right thing to do.

And uh, you know, we have a process with the international team now. We UM for the most part, for ninety five, are in control of every decision that gets made on this team. And so you know, we'll take a little time and let the dust settle, uh, you know, figure out what went right, what went wrong, and start to two to put the right plan in place for what the future is. Uh. You know, I think you'd probably be a little silly not to have Mike Where's

captain in his home country. He's a legend of the game. He's a legend on our team. He's represented US a million times, He's been an assistant captain a bunch of times. He has been UM an integral part of of of my back room UM squad and has been fully invested throughout my captaincy. So I would say it's looking pretty good that he he will be the next captain. Uh And you know, we're looking at future venues now and

we're trying to match the right guy for the right place. UM. But I absolutely see myself being involved in some way, shape or form. You know, I love this team, I love these players. I have a very uh strong feel and passion for international golf and for building the game all over the world and for getting youngsters at a very young age to fall in love with the shield and fall in love with the international team and fall in love with the opportunity to compete against the best

in the American team. That's something that I'm extremely focused on. So you know, I'll be involved as long as they want me to be involved. Off, But as far as the next captain goes, UM, you know, we're just gonna have to let the dust settle and decide what the best thing to do is. You mentioned the future. We talked about the fact that it does feel like the

team has momentum. Um. I turned on Live from and you know, on Golf Channel, and you've got Brandol and Paul McGinley for fifteen minutes talking about how they're going to change the entire um. You know, presidents cup bring in um, you know some of the people from the LPGA around the world which listen. I think they're all great ideas, but doesn't it kind of pisces me off that we're thinking, Okay, we got to change this thing now, because I really do feel like it's going in the

right direction for the international team. The U S team is always going to be the U S team, Right, They're always going to be you know, they're always gonna be Alabama, Right, They're always going to be the All Blacks, Right. You know what you get with the U S side, And it's an embarrassment of riches. Whoever is the captain

of the American side? Um, the fact that when you look back and look at all the writer cups that the US didn't win with the talent and the teams that they had, But it is an embarrassment of riches from an American standpoint. I mean, if you look at the people that Davis and the Vice captains can sit in the president's cup or sit in the writer cup. I mean, you're like, man, you're gonna sit maximum Are

you gonna take him out? Okay? Great? Um. It kind of pisces me off that now we're talking about we gotta change everything, all right? Man, Me too, Me too. I've had to listen to that crap for two years now, Claude, people hitting me up on social media all the time, telling me that they got to blow this thing up. They got to change the format, they gotta cut the points. Um. You know, we've got to bring the woman golfers in.

I find it disrespectful on all accounts. To be extremely honest with you, I find it disrespectful to us as international golfers, that are professional athletes that compete at the highest level, week in a week out. We're not scrubs. Are we as strong as the Americans? Doesn't quite look like it right now. Have they kicked out butts in this event? They sure have, but there's been some close calls, um, and so I find it disrespectful to us. I find

it equally disrespectful to the woman golfers. And here's why I don't think women golfers need men to make them and their competitions relevant. Their competitions are already relevant. I sit down and watch every single shot of the Solheim Cup, every single shot. It's one of my favorite times of the year when that event goes on. I watched the

US Woman's Open. I watched the Woman's British Open a few weeks ago when South African actually brew High came down the stretch almost cofted up, and then one in the playoffs at Muirfield, matching Ernie Else's win at the Open at Muirfield. Women don't need men to make them relevant in sport. My family and I were glued to the TV when Serena Williams played her last match at the U S Open. She's one of the greatest athletes

to ever walk on the planet. So I find it disrespectful on all accounts when people come with that opinion. I appreciate the fact that they may be trying to think outside of the box, but they needs to come up with something else. And I hope Paul doesn't um get offended by me saying this, but he texted me on Monday and he apologized for saying that on Live from because he realized what playing for the Shield means to us, what having the opportunity to compete in the

President's Cup against the Americans means to us. And he realized that, and he realized that his take was incorrect, and he texted me to apologize, And I thanked him for having the guts to text me and to apologize, and I thanked him for realizing how much that event means to us. So I really do hope that we can find a way to create a woman's President's Cup. I think it would be incredible. The national team would be as strong as all heck, and they would probably dominate.

I look forward to to to seeing that. I look forward to being of use and of service in any way possible with that. In fact, I've already had three or four conversations with my colleague Dottie Pepper about that idea.

But let's leave the President's Cup and the international team alone for now, and let us compete and allow youngsters from Thailand and China and Japan and Korea and Australia and South Africa and Canada and all over South America allow them to grow up with this as their goal, to be able to compete on this level because we are eventually going to win this event. I promise you, Trevor, when you are a captain for these things, when you play in them, there's always these moments that that kind

of stick out in your mind. I know you probably have a lot of them, but what are well, give me a lasting image or memory that that you kind of we're able during the moment to kind of look around and kind of go, man, this is this is something that will be a part of my life and be special for me moving forward. There were a few things, um. First of all, our first team dinner on Monday night,

UH Company ton. I invested a lot of time with the help of of UM, you know, many people to build summarily kick ass team rooms at the golf course and at the hotel, and that first team don't know when those guys walked into our team room and and felt that and started reading the quotes on the wall, and when I spoke to them about how I saw the week panning out and playing out, UM and gave them my ideas on the week and my story for the week are revolved at all around the right Brothers

and first Flight in North Carolina, and I gave them each a gift that was extremely impact and meaningful. That was something I'll never forget. That that feeling in the room, the love in that room was it was awesome to behold. The first tea on Thursday was another one. That opening ceremony with Davis and I got to speak the US anthem being some was something special to fly over. The energy from the crowd, the patriotism from the American fans,

that was something I'll never forget. That was great to be a part of. And then Saturday afternoon when those when those two two matches came down eighteen and that that whole four hundred and eighty yard five hundred yard part four was lined ten deep. That was for me. The coolest atmosphere I've ever experienced on a golf course was in Tiger were the Masters. I was out on the golf course, excuse me, playing that final round, but

I could feel that. And then I finished before him, and I was um near eighteen at the scoring area when he came through. You and I were standing right next to each other. That was the coolest moment I've ever experienced on a golf course. But I screwed you this that that moment on Saturday afternoon on the eighteenth was right there with it. The the atmosphere, the electricity, the passion from both teams, the will to win, the fight, the respect amongst the competitors. If you could bottle that,

that's what this game is all about. Lastly, Trev, when you won the Masters, Um, your son Jacob was young then, he had red hair. Um, he had no clue what was going on. Um. What's the sixteen seventeen now the j man um for you as a father to get to spend a President's Cup captaincy with your son who's now playing competitive golf. He's sixteen. He knows what's going on. I mean, you're right around in the cart with him.

He was there when Tom Kim made that part. It must have been pretty special for you and and and Jacob to to share that experience. He loves sports as much as you do. Um, that's got to be pretty cool. Yeah, it was awesome. It was awesome. My daughter Maya was there as well. She was kempt out on the first tea every day, starting a lot of those I T chants and loving and she had the face paint on the flags and all the stuff. So it was an

awesome week for our family. Uh. And the support that Carnita gave me through this and the time she had dedicated was I'll owe her for a long time. But yeah, my son, great moments to have him there with us. He was with the team at all times, in the team rooms, um, there for all of our videos, there for all of our pet talks, UM and team gatherings.

And you know, I'm so appreciative of the caddies and of the players and how they accepted him and and brought him in and really treated him with a lot of respect, just like he was one of their teammates. It was pretty special to see. And you know, they're they're all following him on social media on Instagram now and they're commenting on his posts and and the high five in him when they walk in from greens to tease and uh, you know, we brought him in and

actually gave him a job. He was part of the support stuff. So he was out there, you know, Karen sandwiches and drinks and putting electrolytes into water bottles and you know, carrying umbrellas and stuff for the caddy. He was he was he was working as part of the had he had the Yarmo role from the cup. Hey, Yarmo, give me a sandwich, Yarmo, give me give me a bottle of It was great. It was great. And you know, like you said, he loved his golf. He competes. He's

sixteen years old. You'd love to play collegiate golf and for him to be there and watch the best in the world, like from steps away and feel j t s energy and and feel uh Tom's heart and guts and be there to be able to watch how the best go about their business. Yeah, he's gonna have learned a lot from that week. I'm I'm very blessed to have been able to to spend it with him in such a close, plugged in manner. Well, I think you

did a hell of a job. I know you guys didn't get the win, but um, I really do feel like there is a tremendous amount of positive momentum and energy for this international team moving forward. And I'm proud of you that you got to put your stamp and like you said, helped you put your brick in this foundation and hopefully in ten years time you as the international team. You guys are able to look at this and say, hey, we all built this together and we've

finally got the win. And um, congratulations on um. I mean it's a hell of a year for you. I mean your presidents, cup captain, I mean CBS going into the chair next to Jim Nance. I mean, it's got it. I mean it's pretty good being Trevor Immerman right now. I think I need to sleep for a week before I think about it anything else. But thank you, thanks for talking to us, Trevin, and congrats on a great week,

Ali brother. Thanks. So that was Trevor Immelman and um, you know what a week for trev What a week for the internationals. I think if you listen to that, anybody that thinks, um, that this doesn't mean something to the international team, Um, I think Trevor really did a fantastic job. You can hear it in his voice, you can hear it the way they played. Sure they didn't get a win, they've continually got beat but I mean it when I said it, and I think Trevor feels

it as well. I think there's some momentum for the international side and um, I'm a being interesting to see if they can carry some of that to Canada for the next installment. Um. Thanks everybody for listening. We're going to continue to bring great guests. Son of a which comes to you every Wednesday. We'll see everybody next week.