It's the Son of a Butch podcast. I'm your host, Claude Harmon. This week's guest definitely someone that I've been trying to get on the podcast for a very very long time. We're trying to match schedules, and he was over in Florida right around the end of last year and got to spend some time with him. Tommy Fleetwood listen. I'm a huge Tommy Fleetwood fan. I love his golf swing. I think his golf swing's one of the best in the game. I like the way he plays, but as
a person is just such a great guy. Works with my dad, Butch Harmon now lives in Dubai. We've done some work in our junior program with his two boys, Oscar and Craig, who we talk about in the pod. And I'm just like I said, I'm just a fan. I think it's only a matter of time before he wins a major, wins a big tournament. That's kind of
the game that I think he has. But I think he's one of the coolest guys in the game of golf and someone who if he's hitting golf balls on the range, I will stop and take a look at the golf swing, so really really good one. This is Tommy Fleet would Tommy, We've been trying to do this for a while, so it's kind of cool to do it. End of the year for you twenty twenty four, as a player told me, when you look at your season,
how do you grade it? I mean, as coaches, I know how we look at our players and gread it. But I'm always interested as a player. I mean, you only miss two cuts, four top tens, third at the Masters. I mean solid year. You won on is it DP World at the beginning of the year, but no wins, but a bunch of top twenty fives. I think you're one of the best players in the game. I think you've got one of the best golf swings in the game. But when you grade, you sell that.
I have to say that, trust me, I don't.
When you grade yourself. What's the grade you give this year?
I think, I think it's been a good jet And I always like I struggle with I struggle with grades because it's like, you know, what what is what? What is this successful? You know exactly what Sky going to give himself because if Skuy's giving himself an A and now I'm like a you like, but you know, I think I've had I think I've had a really good year, and I think, you know, there's there's two sides of it.
There's there's a at the end of the day, obviously, the results are kind of the only thing that matters because they're the things in black and white. But there's also a level of performance. There's where your game has been at. And I think I've played very, very consistent, almost as consistent as I've ever been, if not the most consistent with I would say enough like disappointment in there and kind of on the edge of yeah, it's on the edge of me competing a lot for tournaments,
whereas I've just been just a fraction off. So enough of that to keep you, keep you motivated, keep you like striving for more in a way, So I've had a good year. And like you say, when you when you rattle it off, you know, I did win. At the start of the year, Masters was a you know, a great week. The Olympics was something that was unbelievably
and then you know, I made it again. I think it's under it's underrated how hard it is to make it to Atlanta, to make it to East Lake, and you know, I was having a you know, I had a solid year on the DP world so two, so there was a lot of good. How do I grade it, I'm not quite sure. I just know that I'm happy with a lot and unhappy enough to keep working, you know, to keep working hard and wanting more.
What do you feel like you're better at the end of this season in twenty twenty four than you were last year?
Now? That is that is a great question. I think my level of play across the board is probably fractionally higher. I think I've definitely played more consistent this year. I probably had better results last year.
It's funny how that can happen.
But I've been more consistent and I've been.
More consistent, but the results don't show it exactly. So that's such a weird one because it is you as the player know what and as the outside looking in my my role of scorch, I can never get in the players heads, bodies and stuff. So there will be times where I think one of the guys will play good and I didn't really play that good day, and I'm like, dude, you played good, and they're like, yeah,
I wasn't good. And then there's times where I'll think they've played bad and they're gonna Actually I have played pretty good so this year And you say you feel like you're more consistent this year for you, what does that mean? And how do you explain what being more consistent this year versus last year is?
I would say, so I had I had three or four really bad days, I would say there was one at bay Hill where I'd lost my swing, and I don't I can't remember how many balls in the water on the the part five at sixth and the day the day got away and the Open. This year I played really poor when I expected more for myself. But
in general, my bad days have been better. My game has, like we can week in week out, whether you have you know, one or two sort of dodgy days in practice and then you might not quite play one over the period of four day Tournamentich you know, you know you're never going to play great for seventy two holes. Yeah did back in the day, But I think that has been at a high level. My lower end, like I said, aside from like one or two like outrageously poor days, but in general, like my lower end has
been has been that bit better. So that's kept me in results wise, that has kept my lower end higher, so that that's been really good. I didn't put like I so I had. I had a really good spell of putting in the middle of the year, and then from the summer onwards I started I just I struggled a bit, like and you have to you have periods when you look at because we're just talking about a year, but like you always assess the year, but you never assess like four years or five years or three year
in the cycle. And eventually I remember saying that. I remember I was. I was at the Masters in twenty one maybe, and I was I was playing really bad, you know, I was playing rubbish. And I remember speaking to Marko Mira and he was talking about the game. He says, you've been playing really well, and I said, well, actually, I said, I've been on a bit of a bad stretch and you know, I've struggled here and I can't
remember what my bill dranking had gone down to. And he just looked at me and he went, well, yeah, it's golf, like it's called golf. And he's gone, like, you'll you know these things when you look at it over time, like, it's not that bad. It's just like a slight dip compared to you know, the rest of
the rest of the time. So I think you obviously boiled things down to a year and yeah, the second half of the year, like somewher onwards, I could have put it better in a lot of tournaments and that probably cost me a bit, But in general I put it well at the you know, middle part of the year, drove it really well. I'm played pretty good. Yeah, where am I compared to a year ago? It's a great question. I would say just a little bit more consistent lower end was that fraction bit better.
I think the fans always hate it when guys play well and they go, yeah, I didn't have my game today. Yeah, but it is I think at the level that you guys are trying to play at, at the elite tour level, it is trying to make your bad days that little bit better so that they keep you in the rounds.
I don't think the average golfer realizes how quickly you can go from kind of being in the mix on the leader board to one bad hole on a Thursday or Friday, and you're like Okay, I'm on the cut all I'm on the cut all day on Thursday today, I'll be on the cut all day on Friday. For everyone listening, Tommy, how can everybody's bottom end, they're bad days get better? Do you feel like that's a technique thing? Because one of the things that I am very passionate
about is this balance between technique and execution. And I think everybody listening to this podcast, every time they play well or play poorly, they just go, I gotta go to the range. It's got to be my technique. And I think at the elite profession all tour level that you play, the margins are so small. So how do you and your head go about making the bottom end better?
And give me something that our listeners could say, Listen, let me try that non golf swing related, non technique related, because as I say all the time, and I use you as an example, everybody in the game is trying to improve their technique. And I'm not blowing smoke up your euse. I watch you hit golf balls if I've got time. I think you have one of the best golf swings in the game. I just I love the
way you swing the golf club. But there's so much more to it performing than just swinging the golf club. So making that bottom end the not so great rounds better, how do you go about that? And how can the average golfer try and make their not so great rounds not so destructive?
For me, I think consistency of a certain amount of habits, you know, keeps you in and around when you do play well. And I, you know, like everyone else, I have days where my swing feels way off, like feels when you.
Feel like as the type of player you are. I mean, for everyone listening, their golf swing always feels off right. For the rest of us, Tommy, our golf swings always feel shit right, it always feels But for you, when you say your golf swing feels off, what is that feeling like to you? And what does that mean to you?
Probably I could boil it down to a couple of things.
It's not contact right. You never you guys, you guys don't ever not hit the golf ball solid, come on. Compare to everyone else.
For me, it would be a couple of things. My transition feels like it's got no time whatsoever, So.
Get quick in change of direction from backswing to down.
So then impact is never where I feel like it's going to be in terms of time.
I've never heard that, but that makes sense because everybody always talks about the backswing getting quick or the downswing getting quick, but I've never heard would someone say that then makes the impact quicker as well, So you have less time exactly.
I know where I want to hit it, and I know when I should hit it, and when I'm out, I'm not hitting it at that point. So then but then for me, transition will be quick and I hang back on it. But what that does is it brings in two misses. Yeah, you know the left. The club can be going left and I can hit it left or obviously one I don't want to hit it left. I'll hold on to it, or you know, back up and it will be going way right. So then and then I actually remember it. Your your dad told me this.
I remember speaking to him about it, and he went, well, if you've got two missus where you're going to aim, that's.
That's that is. That is the problem with the double.
Miss And so it's.
Halfway through the round You're like, okay, I've rinsed a couple left I've blocked a couple of ways.
Right, You're like, because I've got I've got nothing, and so like for for me though, I think talking about that bottom and I think I've been better at noticing when that is going right. And I've just had a couple of habits. I have some start line drills that I'll do hitting between sticks.
Everybody has seen all the stuff that you do on social where you put alignment sticks in the ground really close, but then that stick in front for you that helps you do what and it helps you visualize.
What Every range is different, and every range can easily trick your eye. You just adapt to whatever you're seeing on any range, and I have been as we and still sometimes you still don't figure it out. But I'll be there thinking I'm hitting it, you know, really poor, and the range will be on like a downhill slope, and the wind will be off the left, and I'm like.
Which wind do you hate for practicing.
Off the left? In off the left? Why? Because you just start pulling it and shutting the face down to counteract the fact, Well, you can't react that. And then the thing is when you pull over it with your body of the club gets behind you, so then that'll bring the right in as well, and it just that's the one that gets you the most out of sync.
And you can feel like you're absolutely flushing it on the range because you'll hit these like drilled strong flights that are it goes and it goes nowhere, but it just looks so it looks so good and you're like hipping it and then you get on the course and your timing's all out because you've been pulling it over. You've got the club face shut and that that's like that that's the worst win to practice him.
Do you like your golf swing? Do you like the way it looks when you look at your own golf swing? Are you able to detach yourself from the forest and kind of look at the trees and kind of go yeah? Or or here's another one whose golf swings? Do you like? Whose golf swings do you look at and go that's pretty?
I love Scottishcheffer's girl sing. I love Xander's girl sing. I mean world number one and two, but I you know, I love looking at like Okay, so let's.
Let's break that down. Scotty's golf swing isn't one that anyone is currently trying to copy, right, everybody, If we if we asked everybody listening to this podcast, whose golf swing would you be trying to copy, most people are going to say yours over Scoutti's. And it's something I've said before. My uncle Billy, my dad's youngest brother, we were on the range. I say this all the time, but it's an important one. We were on the range. Duvall was hitting balls and Tigers hitting balls. Is when
they were friends. Number one, number two in the world, and my uncle Billy, I said this recently on the podcast, but I'll keep saying it. He's like, nobody's trying to swing golf club like David Duvall. Right, nobody's trying to teach that. Nobody's trying to get the club based shut like that move the body. He's like, everybody is trying
to swing the golf club like Tiger Adam Scott. And he said two of the greatest ball strikers he's ever seen, hailerwin Shut took it inside, came over it it Fades won three majors, three US opened tons of tournaments, Trevino wide open stance, took it outside, dropped it under. So when you look at Scotty Scheffler's swing, what do you like about Obviously you know it performed well, so you love that part about it. Right, When people ask me about golf swings, I always say, who do you like?
I always say, are you talking aesthetics or are you talking function? Because of its function, the route is going to be very different. And if it's aesthetics, it's going to be guys like you and Nelly and Adam Scott. I mean, I was with Scutty in Dubai a couple of weeks ago when he was there. I mean, I've known him since he was nineteen twenty, and I'm watching him ball and I'm just like, Adam's golf swing reminds me of when I was a kid. I used to
watch Freddy Couples hit golf balls. You're just like, that's the coolest thing. Adam's rhythm has never changed. So Scotty Scheffler's golf swing, what do you like about it?
I think it's set up is perfect.
He and Randy worked the grip, the way he's constantly checking his grip, and I love the fact that if he plays poorly or if he plays well, they'll go to the range and he is working on his setup actively while they're working on some of the other stuff.
But I now this, this will sound crazy when I say it, so like if I if I sort of went through the things that I like about Scotty's golf swing. I think he's set ups perfect, and I think his grit's perfect. I think his takeaway is great. I think he has loads of room at the top and time doesn't lose. And then I actually think he's His golf swing is actually really quiet through the ball, And it sounds stupid.
But it is. But it's really if you understand how the ground works and how people's yeah, feet work.
Is unbelievably quiet through the ball, and his club's sew in control and that.
And it looks so out of control.
I know that it's crazy, but like when you when you look at it, you know certain pictures or like slow most swings, and you look at where you know how the club works, how his body works with the club, how everything's always supported like yeah, and by the way it seems to work. Okay, So give me some shots.
You've seen him hit in tournaments under competition where you look at your Caddy Fin and go. Yeah that was pretty good.
Now, yeah, now that's a good question. Playing with him. I'm not so like playing with him. See, everybody always describes Scotty as like unbelievably impressive without being impressive, and I think that's a massive compliment to him. But like I would look at shots. Now, I wasn't playing with him at the time, but I Shane.
Lowry said this when I had him on the pod when you were talking about Scotty, and he said he played with him at bay Hill, you know, and and when he won, and he was like, he, Rory impresses you, Right, Rory has the ability to impress you with the speed, the lengthy some of.
The shot he hits, shots that you're like, well, I can't do it.
I don't have it, I can't take that.
But at the same time, Scotty is almost more infuriating because you're looking at him and you're like, I should be able to do it.
And I can't do it.
He does it all the time and I never do it, And it's like he's more infuriating.
Is there an underrated part of his game? Because right now everything is kind of the ship And I mean, but is there something you like that and go he doesn't get enough credit for doing that.
I think his short game is unbelievable, Joe, And like when you when you rack it all up. So he's been, has it? He's been number one off the tea?
Has he been number one of th category? Is not number one?
But but like you know, like unbelievable driver of the golf ball. His iron players off the charts and the best and the best in the world.
He hits four irons and five irons as good as Yeah, like his long iron game is a joke.
Good, But then we go on that and then he's arguably got the best short game in the world. So then I mean, like what are we left with.
Everybody says, well, the weekly in his game is his putting, and I'm like, straight, you can't win the win the tournaments he's winning and be a bad part.
He puts great, And it's always the same thing when when somebody hits it that well and they put themselves in. The proximity that he does like to gain on the greens is very very difficult, like the proximity that he hits it. But he has his putting phenomena this year he's done. He's done amazing work with Phil Kenyan, who I've worked with for a long time and I know him, you know, very close to him from a young age.
So that's been really nice to see like how that work has paid off and the way that they've worked. But yeah, I mean his ball control really for me. And you know, you go back to, like, you know, the shots that he hits that you always think, well, yeah, you know, I feel like I should be able to do that. But the amount of control he has, the amount of confidence he has in it, and then you know, you look at emotions wise and how mentally strong he's been.
And his approach and the way he kind of lives his life both on and off the golf course is a massive superpower for him.
Yeah, and it's almost like, actually, you know when you talk about it like this and you think about underrated part his mental energy, Like you know, he won what eight times nine times? Like to be able to do that, I mean, he played them. He wins the Masters and then just turns up at hilton Head and like wins again, and like I totally you know, I understand how big
of an event Hiltonhead is. Still just want the Masters, like you're all right if you just feel like a bit tired and you're like, oh, you know, I'll you know, I'll play. But and of course, like every time you play, I never play when I don't want to win or don't want to play well. And I'll prepare as much as I can. But then like having the mental fortune and the mental energy to like be up there again and and it went into Monday or whatever it did
and and win. Like things like that are unbelievably impressive.
Xanders Shoffley, what a year, man? So who's year do you want? You want Scotties here this year? You want Xander's here?
Uh, well, that's that's it's a it's a phenomenal question.
Like so for me, it's easier to it's easier to say, Xander, when you if you've already got a major, if you've already got a Master's, like Scutties.
I know. Well, so like my my straightaway instinct would be Scottie Master's Olympics. Eight wins, nine wins. Again we've lost count Felix cut whatever it is like the event I want to wins the Open and it's under won it So it's like it's like turned into this impossible question for me, like which are you going to pick?
So like I always did you choose the masters of the open? You choose the open?
I would yeah, but again I grew up in Southport, of course, so like, yeah, I've always had this, would.
You and your dad used to sneak on?
We did it a couple of times and they kind of we did it a couple of times and it kind o No, we were much too smart to get kicked off what my dad was.
Did you play?
No, you couldn't get very far out because they were just in the corner. It's it's so different now, it's so like actually I haven't played it since they made the changes, but you know that, Like, so you've got the fifth hole, which was always that one in the corner, and it was kind of like a little dog likes short off, but there was always a gap that you could go on to through the roads that was to the right, and then over time hedges grew up in bushes and and that will change so you could get
on at that point. But no, we never ventured out too far. But yeah, like that like the open for me just growing up in that town and that being one of the first events I ever went to, It's always had, you know, a massive impact on me. So I would pick the Open, But then see, now I should really go with unders year because I'm like, if I could win one tournament, I want to win the Open, and he's won it. But then you're offering me scottis year play. I mean, the truth is I would take either.
What about xandras golf swing? The game do you like? I mean, he's just he's one of those guys that those of us that are lucky enough to see him week in and week out and be a part of this circus of professional golf. But this year it's gone to another level. Yeah, and his consistency. Everybody kind of knew that he was going to break out. You just you knew it. You're very similar. I think everybody feels the same about you. But when it happens, everybody goes,
all right, this is really really good. What do you like about his golf swing? What do you like about his game?
Again? Go back to the timing room. He has at the top set up grip very very good, but the timing roomy has at the top the rhythm that he has and So if that's sounded like the sneaky speed that he's got is he hits it. He hits he hits it.
People don't realize how farestander can get it out there.
It is. It a long way with a lot of speed. But yeah, I've always looked at his swing and loved like his rhythm and like just sort of how his arms and hands and body like work together.
Similar to you and in your caddy. I infinite I think you guys are one of the best teams out there. I think it's also helps Xander and Scottie Scheffler. They have great caddies on their back, Austin Kaiser for for Xander, and then I think Teddy Scott has been a massive man, massive upgrade for Scotty, just in the fact that it just meshes right. Sometimes. It just messaged the relationship that you have with a caddy. You know, you and your caddy and grew up together. He was sick, he had
some hord Is shoes and stuff like that. Was it hard to play without him this year?
Well, I not have him on the bag. You notice it, I think, yeah, of course, it's a change. It's definitely a big change. I was very lucky with the way that it went that summer in terms of the people that stood in. I had Adrian from Taylor made for a couple of weeks, very close to me. Did Gray the Masters. When I had Gray on the on the bag, the local caddy was like like phenomenal and a great experience. And then Dave Clark stood in for I think we did seven weeks, six weeks or seven weeks, and he
was great. So I was very lucky with the people I had standing in. Of course, when you've had someone with you both personality wise and the way that you would work everything out, you know, day in day out for whatever seven years, probably since I was eight maybe, so like it's it's a change, and I actually what I had to when he when he came back, so like it was it was great because once we got past the initial phase of it, had had the operation, he was okay, you knew he was on the road
to coverment. So that's very calm in then, and you know that he's going to be back at some point, so then you're just dealing with you know, working in a different way with whoever it is. But I was very lucky and I'm very grateful to the people that stood in and and I had, you know, a good time with them, and that was great. But when when Finnel came back, I I so wanted it to go so well at the start and like my game and my attitude like just trying too hard, like early doors,
to like make it this like fairy tale. When he came back was like was it was that that was on me. But then and once we got back into the rhythm of things and in the flow, like we had a you know, a fantastic end of the year and played some amazing golf, and it was It's been great having him back and working together again. What do you want from a caddy? You want?
I think, because I think every player is different, right, Some players are going to want a ton of information. Some people want a lot. Some people want it to be a process. Some people want it to be collaborative. Some people want to be told what to do. Some people Tiger wanted to make all the decisions. Steve Williams would give him the decisions. Tiger would make his own decisions. Some players want the caddy to go no, no, we do this, and then you do that. What do you want from a caddy.
To be able to trust them to make a clear decision in the most pressurized moments. Ultimately, like that end that was, that would be what I would look for. Hard working, hard working, in a great attitude. Really, those two things or three things that I just mentioned, everything else will be all right with.
I don't think I've ever seen you not in a good mood. Do you have bad days on the golf course? You get down on yourself?
Yeah, yeah, I have terrible yeah, just you know, just like everyone else, I think, honestly, golf is the only thing that can get me like sort of as riled up or as disappointed as you know, I'm generally pretty easy going, very calm, but golf, like I think it's it's just dealing with your own expectations. Like for all of us, we put our heart and soul into our craft and our careers, and then you you know, you work so hard and the game makes no sense a
lot of the time. You can practice so well and you feel so good and the course suits you and you've played really before, and all of a sudden you just like crash out like it, and and then I think those are the hardest things to deal with. And the mental aspects of golf is just like it's it's like any aspects of your game, iron play, driving, chipping, put in, fitness, Like mentally that's that's another just part of the game, and you're going to have good days
and bad days with it. Kids to not beat yourself up about it. And the key is to learn from when you do have those bad days, because it will make a difference. I've made so many mistakes mentally in the past that have then led to me like either winning a tournament or having a great finish because I would have made that mistake earlier, you know, and learned from it. So as long as you do that and you keep sort of trying to grow and move forward,
like those bad days are fine. You know, you can't beat yourself up about it because you've already done it at that point. But yeah, I, like everyone have those bad days and get hard on myself, get really down on myself, disappointed, don't want to speak to anyone that stuff like it all happens.
I was doing some research when the Kazakhstan Open twoy eleven on the Challenge.
Tour fifth Major.
Yeah, the fifth major is the kazakstanip and obviously, what do you know more about golf now than you did when you won a tournament in twy eleven? Meaning what do you know more about everybody? Again, it's just thing that I harp on and on about. Everybody that is trying to play wants their technique to get better. Yeah, and your technique is a moving target, right, it's ebbs and flows. You're gonna have weeks when you pay. But
from the playing of the game. You know, your first kind of big professional win on the Challenge Store that got you on the DP World twenty twelve, you qualified. But what do you know more about playing the game now than you did when you first were starting out? I mean, you had a fantastic amateur career. You played on the Walker Cup, high level, high ranked amateur, but there's a big difference between playing golf at that level
versus the level that you're playing at now. Do you feel like you've grown as a player and as a person on the golf course. Do you feel like you understand playing better?
Yeah, definitely. I Mean you're so much more experience because you've you know, you've had so many different scenarios that you've had to face and you've either got them right or wrong. I know more about every aspect of the game in general. I understand what I want with my technique more, or I understand how I want to work more preparation. Preparation is a huge thing. I know so much more now about how I want to figure out a golf course, how I want to play a gold You go.
About figuring out a golf course, because I think it's something that everybody listening could take so much for. Go to the golf course, whether it's your home course, whether it's a new course. But if golf, go with a game plan of what you're trying to When you look at a game plan and you and you're Keddy and you know, when you guys try and get a game plan, what are you guys trying to do? And in your head, what is planning for a round of golf?
Mean, well, there's always the there's always the ideal way to play every single golf follow every golf course. Very rarely are you going to play it like that because not every shot suittsuoe. And it goes back to the other thing. You know, when you hit balls on a range and when you practice, you'll step out on a golf course and all of a sudden there's water on the left, left or something. I mean, it just it
just changes. And I think you I think when when you go out and playing a practice round, I think being very aware of no matter how you how well you play. I've never played a practice round that actually matters. I mean like it's never had any you know, reflection on my career in any way. It's just a practice. I've shot sixty in a practice around and I've shot ninety and.
It doesn't make a correlation.
It makes no difference. So I but I almost think you're better when you well. You are better when you play bad in practice, because it gives you a heighth end awareness of shots that you don't like, and you'll focus in and you'll know that I need to you know this this whole. You know, I don't like that shot, or I I just can't seem to start it where
I want to start it. So I will either hit a different club, or I'll accept that I'm going to hit it, you know, maybe in the in the left you know I'm likely to it in the left airway trap there. I'll just go and hit some shots out of it. And it's it's more about that's not like being mentally weak or anything. It's just preparing for lightly things that will happen greens on and around the greens. Where do you want to miss it? Where do you
not want to miss it? You're always you know, you're planning. It's easy when you're playing great. You know you're going to strike a drive down the middle and you're going to have an eight iron in and I'm going to feel like, do you know what, I can go straight out of it today and I can edit to five feet and I'll roll the put in because it's fine.
But it's over the course of seventy two holes, there's periods where you're going to be out of position and you need to make pars on those holes or you know, boge it worse. And it's where can I get up and down from? If that's where I can get up and down from, let's go practice it, even if it feels simple or whatever. It is like just things like that that we would do automatically in a way, but I guess people might not think about it straight away.
What's it feel like when you're playing good? I mean, you've had some incredibly low round sixty three US hoping it's shin o'clock on one of the hardest golf courses on the planet. For you guys, when when you're playing good, are you aware of it? Does it feel different?
Do you you're just so exciting? Doesn't it feels great?
Because you guys look so calm when you've got it, like a good one going what incited? Are you going? Man? This is fun? Ah?
Like yeah, you know, I love those rounds where you feel you feel so confident, you're in a great place with your swing. You know, you're hitting the shots that you actually see and you describe.
The starting where you want them, the story starting.
Where you want to start. You're hitting it where you want to hit it in terms of the timing of it, like go back to impact is where you want it, things like.
That, and your caddie's going, hey, we put this fifteen feet you know, below the hole. We're going to be fine, and you hit it fifteen feet.
Yeah, like it just it feels like everybody else playing the game. We get all those same feelings, like so much satisfaction in it. You get excited about it. You're playing great. It's great. I mean, that's what that's all that is good about the game of golf because it keeps coming back and that's what you practice for to have to have those days like that.
And when you're not hitting it good on the course as an elite tour player, what does that feel like? Do you? I mean, is it mental? Are you fighting your swing? Is it just like nothing's going to work today, I'm getting bad?
Or did you well when it goes? There's so many different elements to it. I mean, when you have the really bad days like we talked about before we got two way miss, it's just horrible being out there in it because you don't you don't know where you're going to hit it. You generally bail out somewhere. You don't have, like you don't have a go to shot that you can even it. It's like it's just it's just a grind,
Like it's just it's just a grind. But they're sort of those are the days where you really have to fall back on like being strong mentally, trying to be as patient and accepting as possible, just.
You know, you can't maybe string some porous.
Just yeah, just just keep going because somehow, at some point it might just click in or you just need to get off the golf course in those eighteen holes, go work on something again. Don't don't go trying to search for it or find it. Go back to what works for you in those bases, and it might just come again. And that's why you try and hang around like where your swing. You try and keep your swing as close to where it's gonna You know that that's
what makes you hit it well. And even if you're not hitting it wall Chi, stay is around that as possible so that it can that it can come back. But it was equally days where you feel like you're playing well, you get stuck in between yardages, you get a couple of bad bounces, like things just don't go on the bad side of the draw, get the bad side of draw. Things just don't go your way. It
just it just happens, isn't it. We play golf so much that you're going to get all of these scenarios you know, all the time.
Really, let's talk about sometimes you've played well the Ryder Cup in eighteen twenty three, I mean, come on, man, do you have to play that good right before? And oh in Paris with Frankie. Yeah, you've played with Rory in Italy and.
Just pick him up partners.
Really, that's part of it. You've seen to other than Whistling Straits, where I don't think anybody on the European side really played that great and the US guys just ran through everybody. But you've seen to in the out of the three two that you've played in, you've raised your game so much so that the American guys, we'll go, when does he putt like this? Right? The American guys always say that they're like, dude, if these guys putted like this week in and week out, they'd have like
forty majors. Like, is it the situation? Is it? Europe? Is it the partnership? Is that? What is it? Because you've you've had two Ryder Cups where you literally couldn't miss, You're chipping in, you're hooping it from everywhere, you're knocking it stiff or is it just a snowball of those type of situations you just go, I'm gonna ride this thing and we're gonna go.
I think it's probably all that one.
Eighteen You and Francesco Mulinari wouldn't necessarily pick you two guys as a four and O partnership in the Rider Cup. You just wouldn't know, but you wouldn't. I've never really seen you guys like be like Jordan and JT, where you guys are going everywhere together, You're having dinner on and off. That's my point. Some of those were relationships, like Brooks the first Ryder Cup he got in Minnesota, they asked him who he didn't want to play with.
He and Brent Sneddecker both put each other because they said, we play terrible together. Every time we play. They played great, They won all their matches with a great partnership. They had a blast. They bonded together. So when did you know that you and Frankie were kind of going to be like, Okay, we're going to be that team of the Writer Cup this time.
Well we yeah, we didn't. We wanted to play together.
Similar type games, yeah, similar.
Yeah, and almost like similar personalities to the point, you know, friends so easy to be around. It's funny, like very dry, very funny. And you always enjoyed his company, like We've always found each of this company so easy. So I've always got one great. So we wanted to play together. You obviously don't know. Like most of the time, you
just leave it to the captains to decide. You obviously say you would like to play with, but again, you know, the guys these days, they use so many stats and they have, you know, what pairings they think will work, and you go with that, and you just the captain. And I think me and Frank got a run out on that Friday morning. We were actually two down through ten holes and Fran was playing unbelievable at the time
it won the Open that year. He was pretty much, you know, best player in the world at the time, and he went on a run there and then we just kind of got going. But I do think we played so we went the last group out on that Friday both. I'm pretty sure we were last group out in the morning and the afternoon, or maybe we were
third in the afternoon. But we were lay on when we managed to get through that morning because we were three nail down in Paris Friday morning and me and Fran came through like we managed to survive our match and get through it. But then the afternoon struck and all we did I'm sure we were last. All we had to do was just play because the cheers and the crowd and the rest of the team. We're just like,
the momentum was so much that we just played. We were in such a great spot being at the back, you just rode that wave of what was going on and like cruised through that day.
If you've never been to a Ryder Cup, and obviously for everyone listening, they're never really going to be a part of one, there is something about when you know the rest of the team is on a roll, if you're playing at home, it magnifies Just does it make you feel like you're almost kind of I can free wheel it now because.
Yeah, playing at homes well, it clearly is a big advantage because we're looking at the results how they've been. I think Roy put it really well when he said he felt like one of the hardest things to do in golf was winning away or out a cup. And it is for sure, because you know, there's one thing like changing momentum in a match, it's another thing changing the momentum of sixty thousand people in you know, when it's three matches or four matches, you know, whatever it is,
it's a whole different like scenario. And it is difficult because you know so so for for the away Rider Cup that I played Americans, unbelievable and we didn't play how we wanted to, but like still I hit some great shots at times and it was like just greeted with silence, you know, because that's just what it is.
And I remember being me and Victor got off to a really good start in one of the matches and we were three up to eight I think, and JT hold like a forty foot pot on nine like this big curling put, unbelievable pot, but like this, the noise in the sen off was unbelievable, like and you would think they were three up, and it's like, you know, it's it's mom just it just it does just have
such an impact. And there's there's something if you you know, there's something beautiful as well about trying to go against all that momentum and trying to like squash it. But it's just very hard. It's just very difficult, but you have to enjoy it like there, right, you know, that that atmosphere that you get the Rider Cup both home and away, it's like it is, I mean, you dream of playing in those situations and in those you know, in front of those crowds and for you are against you.
It's still like the most you know, it's the most amazing experience.
Italy twenty three. You get paired with Rory McElroy. I've got to ask you just how fucking good is this guy? I mean, how good is this guy?
You know? We so good. We went for the So we went for this practice day like two weeks before they ride a Cup. Were just just a day the whole team went and we so like Luke had gone through. You know, we were playing in four balls of what our potential parents would be. And me and Rory both play we don't play the same golf ball, play similar golf ball, so they know each other well. So we're talking.
You know, he's talking about playing foursomes and Eduardo we had this like we had this course planner and there was like so what you got is you would open the course planet and there was a dot on the holes which was like the ideal T shot. So like, if you can get it there, that's the absolute ideal T shot. I mean in general, if you're going to it three hundred down the middle, you're in the ideal spot. So I'm looking at you know, I'm looking at the idea t shot on the first and I've hit mine,
So Rory steps up. He's hit it forty yards past the ideal blue dot in the middle of the fairway, and I was like, I'm gonna be fine. I'll play with Rory. And it is amazing. It's it's amazing playing with him. I I really enjoyed getting to watch sort of what he There's there's watching the shots that he hits, but there's also like in certain positions that I would put him that was definitely far from my deal what he actually would then see, Like he sees shots.
I don't think he gets enough credit for being as creative as you.
He sees shots that I mean, I can't hit that I can't see. And you know, there'll be times when I'm like, you know, I'm like looking, I'm thinking, what's he what's he looking out? Like, what's he doing? Just let him go because it's Roy Mackerroy, and you have no idea whether he can pull it off or not, but like, if anybody can, it's going to be Rory. So it was I really enjoyed watching. Obviously, I enjoyed
playing with him as partner because he's unbelievable golf. But watching like shots that he saw as well was really cool.
It must be when you're playing with Rory. It must be hard not to watch it.
Oh yes, regardless of what tournament, it's great, isn't it when you watch him drop?
I mean there must be times where he hits driver in a tournament on a hole and you look at.
Each other and go, everybody everywhere is that going? Everybody does it? Don't everybody does it? You're like, oh my god, that's dead. No, it's just a completely different line that you didn't think of. It's in the middle of the and then you get down.
There around the corner and you go, look where he's one.
You're like, why is why is he not in a provisional.
But they formed friendships those Ryder Cups, right, yeah, yeah, whether you win or lose, I think it's and I've said this on the pod before when Brooks first made the first Ryder Cup, I said, you will never not want to be on one of these. You never want to make And whether you win or you lose, those weeks for you, what do you take away from those weeks? You've been a part of three of them.
Now, yeah, I take away a lot of inspiration, a lot of motivation. Be like you said, being part of a Rider Cup team. First of all, you're with the twelve best players of your continent. They're all phenomenally players and exactly twenty twenty four of the best players in the world. So you take a lot of motivation from that. You obviously don't want to miss another one, so you're you're you know, you're driven to try and do whatever
it takes to make the next one. And there is a there is a bond that when you've been in that team room and when you've played. I definitely think it's the most pressure and most nerves that that you can feel in the game, just because of the hype, the atmosphere, everything that builds up in Look, there's there's definitely worse scenarios in golf. I mean, you can be playing to try and keep your talk hard or whatever it might be. There's much worse scenarios and there's pressure
in that way. But just the whole aspects of the world watching the Ryder Cup and everybody that's there, they're like, you know, the most pressurized times that I've felt. But when you've done it with those with the guys that have been in that team, and you make a you know, you make very very strong bunds and friendships from that.
You work with my dad, butch harmon. You know every lesson I've ever got from my dad. You know, if I'm hooking it'll he just say, we'll just stop hooking it. Well, how do I do that? We'll just stop doing it? Is right? I'm always I never really asked his question to the guys that he works with, but what's he like to work with? And how is he different to
work with? Because I have to do two things in my life, right, I have to I have my father, right, and then I have someone who is in the same industry that I'm in, who, in my opinion, is at the height of that industry from a golf instruction standpoint. But I'm always interested in and I never really do it. What's he like to work with? And how is it different?
I mean, obviously, when you go work with someone like my dad, no matter how big of a player you are, he is the goat of golf instruction, right, He's Sir alex Ferguson, right he is, So when you go work with him, I mean, there must be an acknowledgment that I am going to be working today with one of the greatest, if not the greatest in the game from a golf instruction today.
Well, when you walk into the museum, when you walk into his office, the museum, and then his swing studio with all the flags in it and the wall of majors, I mean like you're in one of the like you know, one of the holy grails of golf. Like it's it's it's unbelievable, like inspiring, it's very very, very very inspired.
It can be kind of I think some guys go in there and go, Okay, this is a little kind of overwhelming. But I have heard guys say they got out of there looking at all those majors that Tiger and all the guys and my dad worked with them.
They were like, I want to go on the wall.
I want to go on the wall.
I want to be I want to be on the wall. You know I've never I've never spent time with your dad. Well, I've not come out of it feeling more motivated or more inspired.
He is a great motivator.
He's an amazing motivator.
He's a good cup bad cop. And he has a reputation I think for being more bad cop than I think the guys that spend time around him, like you guys do, I think you would correct me. I think you're probably surprised at how invested he is in your game and absolutely what you guys are doing.
He really really is and he wants the absolute best for you.
He wants it more than you guys.
And he's constantly bigging you up. Like he never makes you feel bad about yourself. It tells great start, it tells great storry.
What's that like? What's that like?
And from a coaching standpoint, he's never told me something that I couldn't.
Do or seemed weird or you're like, where are we going with this?
Ever told me anything that I didn't understand or anything that I didn't feel like I couldn't do. And at the same time, he's never told me anything that hasn't made a positive like impact on my golf swink And like, you know, one of the first things he made me do when I went for my very first lesson, you know, I went into his office. You know, we spoke for a bit, then we went out to hit some balls.
You know, after three balls. You know, he's gonna just set up more on your heels, put more weight in your heels. I mean, like I can do that, and like, that's not what you think you're gonna get. It's not I think you're gonna get something about positions. And he's like, just get more weight in your heel, get more weight in your heels. And again he's he's very consistent with the messages that he sends and what what we need
to do. You know, good bad under pressure is messages for what we might be working on at any given time or what works. Is always very consistent, so you're always doing very similar things.
What do you feel Tommy, I'm blown away that you haven't won a major. I think you're going to win them. I think you're going to win a bunch of them. But what do you feel like you have to do to give yourself more legit chances? With nine holes to go and it's four times a year, they are tough, but you know that the great ones get themselves in position. What do you feel if you were being critical of yourself, what do you feel like you need to do better
to have more legit chances? Real chance? It's not back door them, not backdoor top tens, top five, but legit in the mix with seven eight holes to go.
Start a bit faster. That would be one of the first things. Just start quicker and get yourself in that position earlier. And you know, the majors, for sure, there's certain times where you have to write it out. I think the PGA was probably like a bit of a freak major this year in terms of the scoring.
And we're not going to get those very often.
That doesn't happen very often.
So like a normal tour event, well, you felt like.
You could make but I thought that golf course was hard.
I know, but it was really long, but everybody kind of felt like they could make up ground each day. Yeah, yeah, right, So, I mean it seemed that way. The guys that I was talking to, especially going to the weekend, They're like, Okay, I feel like I can shoot a lower. Nobody is going on Saturday at.
AUGUSTA going, but definitely riding out. The most important thing, it seems in majors is you have to ride out that struggling period and you have to, you know, be able to grind out of the paths and the best majors that I've or the best results I've had in majors. I've done that very very well, and I think that's always something you know, like very important to look at.
I I love, you know, I enjoy watching the great major champions or the ones that find themselves up there a lot currently and in the past, just how they go about things, how they speak about the majors, and and you know, one of the one of the best things they all do. Everybody knows the majors to the ones that change your career when you look back on it. But they just take those events in their strides, and you know that better than it comfortable doing it, You
know that better than anyone. With Brooks, he likes majors.
He likes the fact that it's going to be messy and dirty and chaotic.
And he's already very at ease with it before he's He kind of likes that because actually.
Everybody says they like it, but you know, very few people really like it. Yeah, but there are people I'm sure that you have played with that in the most pressure. You can see that they're good at handling it.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. And you know I I you know, I've looked at the guys that were majors. You know, I could put better in majors, and I think I think the majors because they're the toughest tests very often. So so like if I could pick a weakness in my putt in especially statistically, once I get outside five feet five to ten feet, you can make big gains and they can be very important puts. Majors you have
a lot of them. It's harder to get for par and that's like a very very important range in majors because it's very difficult to get the ball clothes and you're gonna have a lot of them for pass So I think, I think I could, you know, just hold some of those momentum puts and those pressure puts in the majors to just give me some because we're talking about giving yourself, you know, that chance going into the bat nine where anything can happen, and that would be
where I'd like to find myself more often. Give yourself more chances, and I'm sure you know eventually, if you give yourself enough chances, you will walk through the door at some point. And I you know, I still I always try and talk to myself in the right way and everybody has a different story. And for me, I'm definitely not the guy that has come out of the blocks at twenty one, twenty two and won a major
or one two majors or anything like that. But hopefully, and I'll, you know, keep believing that my story will be. It took him longer than we thought, and it took him a long time, but look at what he ended with at the end of his career. So you know, whether that happens or not is a different story, but that you know, that is what I will keep telling myself at this point.
Lastly, you counted for your steps on Oscar this year in a challenge to her the other steps on mo We've we've both been lucky enough to work with them at my accounty, but it's in Dubai. But it's been fun to watch obviously, I mean, and when did you meet them? How old were they young? Because I have a stepdaughter who I met when she was eight My wife and I I got together, and she's I call her my daughter. She's the only daughter I'll ever have.
I think of her. I think the role that you've played in both of their lives has been pretty pretty cool to watch and pretty interesting.
It's very kind I think five and seven or six and eight, so especially like especially Mo Moe is like young and you know, so were they big into golf, No, not really. They sort of tried it a little bit obviously the mum worked in the game. So and then I I actually remember so I took them on a full sized golf course for the first time. We've got videos somewhere quite a long time ago, so you know, I would say they definitely came on a golf course
for the first time with me. So that's been cool being part of being part of that journey because you know what it's like. I mean, we obviously loved the game, and we've grown up with the game, and we have Frankie now who's seven, who has been playing since he was you know, since since he was tiny. But like having having your kids that are so invested in love the game, like I love nothing more than going out and playing with with those guys, like that's that's my favorite thing to do.
I was hanging out with Oscar right of the first tea at the Ryder Cup when you guys were going out, and it was just so.
Cool that nervous but two of us were sitting there, you.
Know, and there's all these people and everybody singing and stuff. And I saw him in the crowd and I went down and we were hanging out and stuff, and he had just played really good in the tournament, so I was talking about that. But we were just looking around at the atmosphere. It must be cool to watch them progress. I mean, they've turned into pretty good players.
Yeah, they're doing good. They're doing I mean, what was.
It like Candy and Form in a Challenge Tour event. Were you giving him advice? Were you just letting him do him? Or were you trying to go, hey man, no, let's just just hit it over here.
Yeah, it's not seven iron I felt like so for him, that was such a big step up for him, Like it was amazing that It's like Fino was cardied for him too, and finn I was caddied for into like who knows who was better, but we made a coating a Challenge toy, so you know, like it was it was a big step up for him. And obviously it's it's somewhere where you know, he eventually wants to be like playing as a professional tour and professional so Challenge to it was amazing opportunity for him, and he was
he was very nervous. But I I think what was what was good for him was and it's not necessarily not everything I said was right, like definitely, like definitely I got stuff wrong. But I think the more important thing was the confidence and belief he had that what I was saying was right helped him just hit a good golf shot, like it just helped him commit to
what he was doing. And you know, I played on the Challenge Tour, so I've been through all those experiences, so I think I had a help, you know, I could help him in that way, Like there was nothing that he was gonna sort of go through that week that I hadn't done. But I'm not hitting the shots like it's all it's all well and good to me saying what to do. I'm not the one hitting him. And he teed off on Thursday morning, and I swear he played. He had a put on the ninth for eagle.
He actually three put it in the end, he had this twenty footer to go fourmder through nine. He could have been eight under by the way, and I was like, oh my god, Like I was like, he's playing unbelievable, Like this is a joke, Like we would discuss a shot and he would just hit that exact version of the golfshop. I couldn't do it, And I was like,
this is unbelievable. But to make the cut, like because you get you know, you get caught up in everything in the game, and there's so much going on at the top end, and there's like you know, there's there's Ryder Cups, and there's like, you know, there's so much success like in the game, and these players that are unbelievable. But at the same time, like him making a birdie on the last week he made the cup by two. He was seventeen.
Seventeen, he's making challenge, but like how.
Happy he was, How happy I was? It was it was so cool and it was so good. And to have that like purity of the joy of the game and what like just those moments that it can bring at whatever level that is was great to be a part of. And you know, Mos just won a tournament like last week. Just watching how happy they are to perform well, to play well, to win a tournament is really cool to see and it definitely keeps you. They help me enjoy the game, like for sure.
Because the cool thing is their kids that are growing up on tour, right, Yeah. We see them at majors, we see them at driving ranges on that so they are very much I look at the upbringing that they have. It's very similar to the upbringing I had. I was at tour events, you know, at a very young age, I was on tour. You know, I've been on tour basically my whole life. Is it fun having them come out on tour with you?
Yeah? I love having I love having them out. Like most traveled a lot, loves being out on tour. Yeah, I love having the guys out. I love having my family out obviously, you know, I travel a lot and
I travel a long way to play. But having having those guys out when they come out, and knowing that they're learning as well, knowing that they enjoy it, knowing that they like being out on tour, it's great And I do think it's it has a positive effect on them growing up, and I think it gives them to go back to motivation and inspiration, you know, to be able to for me, being able to play on tour, bring those guys out and give them the opportunity to
be both learn and be inspired by by everyone that's out there and the tour. You know, yeah, I'm very proud of that.
How much have they inspired you to kind of put in your new Tommy Fleetwood Junior Academy in Dubai. I think that's and I think it's amazing that you just had a tournament where you got together with the AJGA, had a tournament in Dubai. That's the first time that's ever happened. I mean, there have been a lot of players to me that have lived in and out of Dubai for a long time. The fact that you're the first one that's ever said, hey, listen, let's get the
AJJA involved. Let's get some wagger rankings for these players. I mean, Dubai is a very small market, but I think it's an important market being around you know, Mo and Oscar and has been kind of a catalyst for you to say, listen, junior golf is the future and I'm going to try and do as much as I can to make a mark.
Yeah, definitely, And I think it's really important to give all, you know, the kids the opportunity to learn and play the game. I think that's really important and give them like good information as well at the same time, like give them the best possible chance of like in the game and succeed in and whatever that might be. I also just think golf in general helps you be a success or whatever you want to be. So I think
it's very important lessons of course. Yeah, and you know, you've you've had the academy and do buy a long time. There's so there's so much good and there's a lot you know, golf very popular over there, and there's a lot of kids that play, and you know, the Asia Pacific Amateur came over there a couple of years back. The tour has been going there for a long long time, and there's just been this like not necessarily a voyage, there's has.
Been avoid I lived in Dubai for three years from two thousand and eight to twenty eleven, and you'd work with these kids and they didn't really have a way to gauge themselves off of other kids. They were good kids in the region, they were really good kids, but they they tended to be the best kids in every tournament. And I think one of the cool things is the competition that that these tournaments that you've you've come up with,
those are going to be the tournaments. Like the two kids from our academy that that won the first they were so excited. That was like to them felt like one of the biggest tournaments for them.
Like it's like it's like that guy playing in an A G A event.
We got to make sure that you get that the A J J gives them the champions bags, right, they got you get like you've got it. That is such you don't realize as a junior golfer. You show up on a driving range, as a junior golfer with an A J G A champions bag on, everybody looks at you different. That is him quickly equipment of like a major championship for junior golf. So you show up with one of those bags and everybody kind of goes, that's
what I want to do. So I think it's really cool that that you've been able to do that, and I think that can really really grow in the region for the kids in that part of the world that have never really had like a a major to play in, Right, They've got to travel the fact that they've got one in their their backyard, they can go and win an AJGA event and get wagger. Yah.
Yeah, obviously it puts them in a good position for if they want to go to college. You know, they're on the map. And I do think you know from my experiences in Dubai, I'm sure you're the same. The facilities are great, the coaching is very very good. There's some great coaches out there, and there's some really good players. But you know, and as much as we can enhance that platform at a junior level, that can only be a good thing.
Well, I think you are one of the players told me that if a young golfer was trying to model their career after I mean, they couldn't pick. I look at you. I look at guys like you and Adam Scott. I look at the way that you guys just conduct yourselves. I don't know anybody that doesn't like you. I don't know anybody that doesn't think you're like.
What you wouldn't tell me anyway, you know, I would.
I mean, but I just think you're a credit to the game. You're a credit to the sport. And I'm not saying this just to massage your ego. If you don't have multiple major championships while we're done. There's something wrong with you, because I think you've got one of the best swings in the game and one of the best games in the game. So I'm excited to see your time.
Is hopefully still to come, and there'll be plenty of them.
So great talking to you.
Thank you, I thank you.
I can't thank everybody enough for listening, rate, review, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. It's the Son of a Butch podcast