Q&A: Taylor Gooch, Brooks, Game Improvement & Learning

there is this debate. We are seeing great golf. We see great golf on the PGA Tour, and if you're watching live, if you're trying to say that you're not seeing great golf, I don't know what you're looking at because I work with players on live and I see them doing the exact same thing that they did there that they did when they played the PGA Tour. I fundamentally don't understand why there seems to be this choice that you have to make between the PGA Tour and Live.

At the end of the day, it's golf, and if you are a fan of golf, you can watch golf wherever you want to. You can see great golf on the PGA Tour. You can see great golf on the LPGA Tour. You can see great golf on the DP World Tour, and you can see great golf on Live. And I think if you look at the caliber of players that are playing on live, I think it's naive to say that they're not great players because that's where

they chose to go to. I think the way that the live guys performed at the Masters went a long way to debunking this myth that everybody that went to live their careers were over, that they were washed up. I think after the Masters, the narrative that a lot of people that are anti live were trying to portray that the players were at war with each other and they didn't like each other. I think everybody saw that that was not the case, and I think you're seeing

great golf. I think brooks Kepka, I'm currently working with Brooks Kepka. Brooks is playing some of the best golf I've seen him play. The way his golf swing is working, the way his body is working, the caliber of golf he is playing right now is very, very similar to the golf that he was playing in twenty nineteen when he was the number one player in the world and

win in majors. At a pretty steady click. I think Phil Mickelson the resurgence of the way Phil Mickelson is playing after playing the way he played in the Masters at his age, the way he played over the last couple of weeks. And my issue with the anti live people are I would say the majority of them have never come to an event. They don't watch any of the events, they don't come to any of the events, and everything they hear is rumor or hearsay. They are

not part of the live ecosystem. They're not in the locker room, they're not talking to the players. They've chosen to make up their own mind. And there seems to me to be more of a push from the PGA Tour side to choose between the PGA Tour and Live than the live guys. And I just fundamentally don't understand why you have to make a choice. If you are a fan of golf, you can choose to watch your golf wherever you want to watch it, and you can choose to watch the players that you like wherever you

want to watch them. So I just don't get what the beef is to me this this current state of Live versus the PGA tour and this choice that in my opinion, Jay Monahan and the Boys and Pana Vidral wants you to have to make is we don't see that in other sports. And you know the easy to me. There's NASCAR and there's Formula one, right, And if you haven't watched the Drive to Survive Netflix documentary on Formula One,

check it out. I've been a huge fan of Formula one for a long time and I think it's growing and growing in popularity. But if you look at NASCAR and you look at F one, it's motor racing. The drivers that drive on NASCAR and the drivers that drive on Formula One basically all kind of started doing the same thing. They were started in kart racing and they did it at a young age and that's how they got into motor racing. And if you look at the product,

one goes around in a circle. Yeah, there's a couple of NASCAR events that are road tracks, but the majority of the NASCAR events are in an oval track and they just go round in circles and there is a massive, massive following for that. And then you have F one that is kind of through street racing and different. So motor racing, different product, maybe different demographic, definitely different sponsors. NASCAR you've got for Chevrolet, Toyota, F one, you've got Ferrari,

you've got Mercedes, You've got Asked and Martin. And maybe the fans are different, Maybe the fans are from a different socioeconomic background. I don't know. But what I do know is all of the best drivers in NASCAR and Formula One are all flying to every race on their own private jet. They all live in mansions, they're all making, you know, scary money, and nobody in those sports are asking you to make a choice between one or the other.

So to me, all of this is just golf. And if you like golf, you can watch golf anywhere you choose to watch. You don't have to make a choice. If you're making a choice for your own personal reasons, that's I guess that's your choice. And but you don't have to And I think the products aren't really that difficult different, you know, Yeah, fifty four holes versus seventy two holes. There are people that some people that like that,

and listen, I think we're seeing good golf everywhere. I think it's unbelievable to see the rise of Tony for Now on the PGA Tour. I think you know Tony for Now winning yet again. He won a bunch of times. At the end of last year. He hadn't figured out how to win. Before he's figured out how to win. That's an unbelievable story. That's a great, great story. That's good for golf. And one of the things that I wanted to talk about Taylor Gooch, the golf that he

is playing. He's won two tournaments back to back on Live and I'm telling you, this kid, the game that Taylor Gooch has, he's so so impressive. He's an old school shot maker. Whatever the hole kind of tells you it needs to, if it's a right to left or it's a left to right, he hits that shot. He can hit it high, he can hit it low. I was lucky enough to spend a lot of time last year with Taylor Goodchi was on DJ's four Aces team, and the guy is just so so impressive, and I

didn't realize how good of a player he was. I didn't realize all these different shots that he had. And in an era where a lot of the top players are kind of going to one shot and becoming one dimensional and having tremendous success doing it. Taylor's a little bit of a throwback, a throwback to a guy that if it's a dog leg from left to right, he's gonna hit that shot. If it's a dog leg from right to left, he's gonna hit that shot. If you have to hit it high to a backpin, he's gonna

hit that one. If you're gonna have to hit it low, he can hit that one. So it has been unbelievably impressive to watch him play the two rounds. The Friday Saturday round he played down in Australia. I mean it was like he was playing a different golf course. The score, I mean, he was a million under. He took a ten shot lead into the final round, had a little bit of a wobble, a bunch of guys made a run at him and ends up winning. And it was

a dominant, dominant performance. And then we went to Singapore last week Sunday he was in a duel with Sergio Garcia and Brooks Keepka down the stretch and was able to win in a playoff with against Sergio Garcia eight million dollars in six rounds. I'll go ahead and say that again. Eight million dollars in six rounds, and anybody that's listening that says, it's not about the money, it's

not about the money. It's not about the money. If it's not about the money, right, and if golfers are just playing and it's not about the money, then why does everybody have an agent? Rory McElroy has an agent, Justin Thomas has an agent, Jordan Speith has an agent, Scotty Scheffler has an agent. Everybody in professional golf has an agent. Why do we know who Mark Steinberg is. He's an agent, He's Tiger's agent. The reason all these players have agents is, to newsflash, to try and make money.

They're trying to make as much money as possible as a professional athlete. That is what every professional athlete is trying to do. It will come across I guess to a lot of people listening that I am pro live. I'm not pro live. I want Live to succeed because I am pro athlete. I have never I'm not a part of an organization, right. I am a golf instructor, employed by professional golfers, employed by professional athletes, and I don't work for the USGA, the RNA, the PGA of America,

the PGA Tour. I don't work for those organizations. I work for athletes. I work for professional golfers, and I believe that professional golfers should be like everybody else. They should have the opportunity to make as much money as their talent allows them to make. I think Rory McElroy should be able to go anywhere in the world and

play golf and be paid to show up. I think Scotti Scheffler should be able to go anywhere in the world and play golf, and if an organizer, if a sponsor of a tournament wants to pay him to show up, I think he's earned that right by the talent that

he has. So it's about the money. The tour tried to put out this thing about legacy and trophies, and I think everybody kind of knows that that's not the case, given the choices that the PGA Tour has chosen to make with designated events, no cut events, upping the purse. If it's just about legacy and trophies, there would be no prize money. Everybody on the PGA Tour would play

for free, so you don't have to choose. You can watch golf wherever you want it, but as someone that is part of the live ecosystem, and listen, that's not a choice that I'm make. All of my players just went to live and because I'm employed by them, that's where they go. I think, I don't know, And you know, I've talked to Brooks extensively about this, you know, at

the PG or at the at the Masters. You know, Brooks was leading for three rounds and a lot of the media tried to portray that Brooks wasn't a live guy and that he was a guy that was looking to come back. Brooks is not looking to come back. Brooks just doesn't have any animosity towards the PGA Tour. He doesn't have any animosity towards j Monahan. He invited J Monahan to his wedding. He doesn't have any animosity to the guys. He doesn't think that the PGA Tour

is bad. He just has made a choice to go play somewhere else. And you know, players in other sports make choices to leave other teams for financial reasons, and maybe it's just that we've never seen that before in golf, but it's here. I think the caliber of play. I worked with PGA Tour players and I was on the European Tour. Started my career on the European Tour in two thousand and two, and since two thousand and two, I've basically been coaching professional golfers on the PGA Tour

except for the last year and a half. The golf that's being played on live is no different than the golf that was being played on the PGA Tour. Everybody still has coaches, everybody still has trainers, everybody still has physios. So if they just took the money and nobody cared, then nobody would have a coach, nobody would have a trainer,

nobody would have a physio. They'd all just be showing up zero practice, not working on their body, not working on their golf swing, because they'd all got in the bag and they'd all been paid. So this narrative that you know you have to choose between the PGA Tour

or live is crazy. I mean, it's gotten so crazy that Chase Keepka makes a hole in one at a live tournament in Australia, and I heard some clowns on a podcast trying to say that it was staged, that it was fake, that it was It was a coincidence that all of a sudden, a bunch of people had the footage and they all posted at the same time. When somebody makes a hole in one and you're at

the tournament, you're going to post the video. My wife came down to Adelaide to Australia and was on the twelfth hole with her brother and my brother in law when Chase made the hole of one. She immediately sent the video. You've got these clowns doing podcasts going, look

like it was stage. Maybe a drone flew in the ball, and because it wasn't live, and because it was tape delayed, and because it was in Australia, it wasn't live in America, these clowns are saying, yeah, it seems like it's stage. So if it doesn't happen live on American television, that means that it's not real and it didn't happen. I mean, that's where we're at. And if you need an example of how crazy this whole thing has become, that to

me is a seminal moment. You've got people that think somebody making a hole in one on a whole kind of like the sixteenth pole at Waste Management, thinking that that was staged and rigged. If that's how far the rabbit down the rabbit hole you are with the PGA Tour and all of their paid media and all the people that are trying to discredit Live, then you know, I don't even know what to tell you. But what I can tell you is the golf being played on Live is the same golf that's being played on the

PGA Tour. And Taylor Gooch is a legit in my opinion, He's a legit top twenty five, top fifteen player in the world. I think Taylor Gooch will have legit chances the rest of the year in the three remaining majors. I would not be surprised if he has a chance to and I wouldn't be surprised if he winned one. He has the type of game that suits every type of golf course. He has the type of game that suits regular tournaments. He has the type of game that

suits major turnment. And the best part about Taylor is he believes so much in himself. He's one of those players that quietly has this inner confidence of he believes in his own ability. He believes in what he's doing. And don't be surprised if ce Taylor Gooch on the leader board in a major sometime this summer, because and he's going for three live tournaments in a row, three live tournaments in a row. If he were to win Tulsa next week, I mean, he's getting close to twenty

million dollars this year in prize money. And again, anyone that tries to tell you that golf professional golf is just about legacy and just about trophies, you're drinking the kool aid, because everybody playing professional golf is playing professional golf for money. The guys on the Live Tour are doing that, guys on the PGA Tour are doing that. And I'm gonna keep saying this. You don't have to choose. If you're a fan of golf, you can watch your

golf wherever you want to watch it. The tournament down in Adelaide was one of the coolest tournaments I've been to. You can tell that the Australian golf public is starved for professional golf. Yes they have tournaments, yes they used to have a tour, but they've never seen that many great players in one place at one time, and it was fun Fisher, the DJ. He flew in from Coachella for thirteen hours. He was in Australia for thirteen hours,

played a DJ set. I think Saturday night after the round, almost twenty thousand people showed up to watch a DJ at a golf tournament. I met a lot of people. I asked people why they were there. They said, Hey, we never get an opportunity to see these great players. We want to come out and see the best players in the world. I had people say, Hey, any chance that we can see the best players in the world,

we're going to take advantage of that. And I think the best players of the world are players playing professional golf, not which tour they're playing on the PGA Tour. They want you to think that all of the best players in the world play there, and that's just not the case. There are great players playing golf all over the world. And I think one of the things that's come out really since the Masters is, you know, Taylor Goots Shoots

plays a great tournament in Adelaide. He goes down in the world rankings, beats a bunch of players that are higher ranked than him. In the world rankings, and it's just it's crazy to me that we still have this kind of debate. If you go to a live tournament and don't like it, that's okay. If you watch a live tournament and don't like what you see, that's okay too. But you can like both. I believe the PGA Tour and live can both be true at the same time.

But I am seeing the same calid. I've been saying this for months now. I've never seen Brooks kept goa work harder than he's working right now. He didn't work this hard in twenty nineteen on his game because he didn't have to. He went through a bad couple of years. He's trying to get back to being the best player in the world. He's trying to get back to winning major championships. He had a legit chance to win the Masters. I think Brooks is going to have legit chances to

win all three of the next majors. And I wouldn't be surprised at all if Brooks kept Go won one of those. And yeah, I'm biased. You know the reason I'm biased is because I coach him, and I watch what he does, and I watch how he plays golf, and I look at the rest of the players playing professional golf and I don't see any difference. And all these people that thought he was washed up and just took the bag and went to live and was going to be insignificant, I promise you that's not going to

be the case. And if you look at the golf that Phil Mickelson has been playing recently, it's it's pretty impressive if you look at the way Phil looked twelve months ago versus the way he looks now, the dedication and the work that he's put into getting himself in shape, and I think he is. He is flourishing on Live in the role that he's got. I think he loves having a team. And I'm here to tell you, guys, the team concept on Live is real. It really is.

The guys like playing for the team. The teams that I work with, You Brooks's on his team, Team Smash DJ and Pat Perez who I work with, are on teammatess. Pretty much every single time we all get to the golf course at the same time. We breakfast together, we practice together, we play practice rounds together. The teams eat and play practice rounds together. It's very much a team concept. So anyone that thinks all of this team stuff isn't real,

I promise you it is. And looking at the players and looking at how much they've embraced that, but also looking at the fans. I couldn't believe how many people

were buying merchandise in Adelaide. And you know, we were staying in downtown Adelaide in Australia and on the weekend we're going out to dinner and you just see people in town walking around with live merch and live team merch and there are loads of people that are telling you they have no fan base, nobody cares, and nobody's interested. And I've been to every live event and that's just not the case. So you can watch golf and choose golf, and there are some great golf being played. Boyd Summer

hates coaches, both Tony Finow and Taylor Gooch. He's been on the pod before. If you get a chance, go back and listen. I think Boyd's one of the best coaches out there, but two really really good young players, and I think the game is in a very very good place because I think the caliber of golf that's being played is just phenomenal. I mean, you've got John Rahm again with a chance to win. That's great for golf. Sergio Garcia playing great last week. Whether a Sergio fan

or not, I don't care. Sergio is a great golfer and it was great to see Sergio win again or have a chance to win again. And Brooks right there in the mix, missed the playoffs by one shot. If you look at the caliber of golf he's playing, he won in Orlando the week before, the week before the Masters, finished second at the Masters, and just finished second again. So the litmus test for me for professional golf, I don't care where you play. If you're winning tournaments and

have chances to win tournaments, you're playing good. So let's get to the questions. I put out questions yesterday on my Instagram and got a bunch of people, a lot of Brooks questions, obviously, you know, kind of asking kind of what we've been working on and what he's been working on. I think the big changes set and I've talked about this, but a lot of the stuff that

we've done with Brooks's game is set up related. And last week it's funny Brooks had a chance to win the tournament last week and the range at Sintosa, the golf course in Singapore. The tea was at the top and then it was a very very steep dive down and then there was a bottom part of the range. And Tuesday, I've never seen Brooks hit it worse. Wednesday, I've never seen Brooks hit it worse. And finally he was just like, I hate downhill ranges because the ball

comes out it looks like it's going too high. He was trying to flight the golf ball down. So from Thursday onward, Brooks did all of his warm ups at the bottom of the range so he could hit uphill. But a lot of what we've been working on with Brooks is set up related ball position, set up alignment. Every now and again, if you see Brooks on TV warming up, you'll see him kind of have his caddy, Ricky Elliott stand in to where he's set up, and

Brooks wants to know where he's lining up. So I would say the majority of the work that we've done in the last six months has been all stuffed before Brooks hits the golf ball, making sure the golf ball doesn't get too far back in his stands and working on his a ligne. All of the setup things in Brooks's in the way he sets up to it kind of are the domino effect to where he how he

swings the golf club. So when the golf ball gets too far back, if he gets aimed too far to the right, then the takeaway doesn't get outside going back, he doesn't get it in front of him coming down, and it's hard for him to manage what the path and the face are doing when the setup gets off. So if you are struggling with your own golf swing, make sure you're looking at the basics. They're not sexy. You don't see a lot of YouTube videos. You don't

see a lot of YouTube videos. You don't see a lot of Instagram posts from all the golf influence frontsers talking about grip, stance, posture, and alignment. And I'm going to tell you that in twenty twenty three, grip, pasture, ball position, alignment still have a massive, massive effect on how you hit the golf ball. So a lot of what we've done with brook is just set up related, and as a result of that, I think it's allowed him to know that, Okay, I'm set up in the

right place. My ball position is in the right place, and I can then go ahead and swing the golf club the way I want to. The good thing right now for Brooks is all the misses are out of the center of the club face, not so much off the toe and not so much off the heel, which shows us that he's pretty much where he wants to be. And he keeps saying that, okay, okay, I missed that one, missed a little bit of where I was trying to go, but it's right out of the center of the face.

He's found a driver that he really likes. He went up and loft at the tournament that he won in Orlando. He's he used a different driver than he used in Orlando that he used at the Masters. From the start of the year, he went from eight degrees of loft. He's up to ten and a half degrees of loft now. When he had the eight degrees of loft, he just didn't see enough on the face and it really got him to try and hit the golf ball up. That's the death move for Brooks. Brooks places best when he

hits down on it, especially with the driver. Brooks kind of cruises. When he plays his best golf, he's probably one to one and a half degrees down on it because he likes to kind of be able to hit down, swing left and hit that kind of bullet cut. But I think we're going to continue to see Brooks play well. I think his short game is very, very underrated. The work that he's done with Pete Cowen. He has hit

some unbelievable short game shots when it matters. And you know, he didn't necessarily put as good down the stretch in Singapore last week, but he feels like his speed was just a little off. And but Brooks is healthy, Brooks is confident, and I think we are going to see Brooks continue to have chances to win tournaments. Let's see I get asked best golf swing ever. I'm biased, but Tiger two thousand that was probably the best I've ever

seen anyone swing the golf club since then. I mean, Adam Scott, Nelly Korda, I mean their golf swings are pretty good. I think Nelly Korda has one of the best golf swings in professional golf men, women, boys, girls. I don't care her golf swing is. I mean, I got to watch it up close at the Women's US Open last year, And I mean, if Nelly Korda's hitting golf balls on the driving range and I'm on a driving range, I'm going to stop and watch because that's

how legit good her golf swing is. Now, I think a lot of times people get confused with golf swings, and that's kind of a thing you've heard me talk about on the pod before, this kind of technique versus execution. If it was solely on technique, I think Adam Scott and Nelly Quorter would win every week. It'd be like figure skating. There would be judges, they'd be looking at the technique and they'd be going giving nine to five, ten nine, nine, nine to eight. But that's not what

golf is. Golf is execution, it's not technique. So when everybody, when anytime anybody asks me about golf swings that I like and who I think has good golf swings, I always make the distinction between esthetics and function, and functional golf swings to me are way more important than aesthetically pleasing golf swings. Jim Furick, Steve Elkington have the exact same amount of major Championships, one each. They both won

the Players Championships. They both have vastly, vastly different golf swings. Steve Elkington another guy that is a great, great golf swing. The way he swings the golf club beautiful, The positions he puts the golf clubs in beautiful. But golf isn't about golf swings. Golf is about hitting golf balls and hitting golf shots. I had a couple of people asked if I've been blacklisted from the PGA Tour for working with Live, and what do I miss about the PGA

Tour and what's different about Live? The main thing I miss about the PGA Tour is all the players and the caddies. That's the thing I missed the most. It was so great at Augusta National to see a bunch of players and caddies that I hadn't seen, really, you know, in almost six seven months, and that was really really cool. What are the differences between the PGA Tour and Live? I guess the obvious choice from a coaching standpoint, and

this is just from my own per personal experience. I get treated better on Live than I ever got treated on the PGA Tour rarely was I ever. The PGA Tour for coaches is all about where you can't go, right, There's a lot I can't go. I can't have breakfast or lunch with a player because I'm not allowed in in player dining. For a long time, we weren't allowed in the locker room. It's it's very, very different. In

my this is just my opinion. Coaches, trainers, physios, and caddies are seen as part of the tour, the PGA Tour and the way that the PGA Tour operates. You know, for a long time, caddies weren't allowed in the locker room at a PGA Tour event. I can eat with a player. I can eat with a caddie and a player. I don't have to pay for food at a PGA Tour event. I have no access for food. I have to pay my own food. Live, the hotels we stay in tend to be near or similar to the ones

the players stay in. There's shuttles to and from the golf course, and and it just as a coach on Live, you you feel like you're a part of the tour. You feel like you're important, you feel like the tour feels like you're an important part of the player, and I never felt like that on the PGA Tour. I always felt like I was guessed. I really did. I felt like I was going to a PGA Tour event,

I had a credential. But then you walk around. You look at all of these people that work for the PGA Tour, and they've got the alphabet on their badges, right. That means they can basically go everywhere. They park in the same places that the players park in. They're eating meals in the clubhouse, and everybody else is just kind of on outside of that circle. They're in the inner circle.

And I think that's been the interesting thing, in my opinion, a lot of the differences between Live and the PGA Tour. It's been as much a business experiment as it's been a social experiment. Everybody that is part of Live feels like they're part of something, and that comes from the tour making you feel like you're part of what's going on, that you're an integral part of the event and the tour, the PGA Tour. For however many years, I was on the PJ Tour and I was on the PGA Tour

for a long time. I always felt like I was guessed. I always felt like and I was treated like a guest. And I think you would if you asked all the coaches that are currently coaching on the PGA Tour, they tell you the exact same thing. Now, there are a lot of people that say, hey, Lives only forty eight players versus how many people play every week on the

PGA Tour. Obviously it's easier to make those changes. But every year at the Tour Championship, there's thirty players in that never allowed in the clubhouse, not allowed to eat, parking, never get parking, all of that stuff. Now, obviously these are first world problems, right, I'm gonna hold by hand up. These are first world problems. I'm not digging ditches, right, I'm not Nicole Mine. I work with professional golfers. I'm

not curing cancer. But when people ask me, what's the difference the tour, Live, in my opinion, treats everyone better than I ever saw on the PGA Tour. And one of the interesting things I find about all the people that are anti Live is they've never been a part of the PGA Tour. I've never been a part of the Live ecosystem. All of us that make these comments about the PGA Tour, from players, from caddies, from coaches,

from everybody that has now gone to live. We were all part of the PGA tours ecosystem for years, right, so when we talk about it, we talk about it because that's we lived it. We saw it on a daily basis. Most of the people that are anti live won't even watch, they won't even go to a tournament. They act like it doesn't exist. So when I get asked what's the difference, I feel more welcome on Live than I ever felt on the PGA Tour. That's for sure.

Great question. Tour player coaching relationship you learn the most from I guess if I had to think about that, I guess it would be Trevor Immerman. Trevor Immerman was the first real tour player that I ever worked with. I moved to Europe in the early two thousands, and up until that point, i'd worked in Vegas for my dad.

I was around for the glory years of my dad working with Tiger, and I'll be honest with you, when I worked in Las Vegas from about nineteen ninety eight until two thousand and two, I just kind of spit out what I heard my dad telling people, and he was telling people the Wright stuff. So it worked. But I didn't really know anything. I just kind of knew what I heard from my dad and watching other people. I had no idea what I really believed in the

golf swing, what I thought made players better. So when I moved to Europe and started working on the European Tour in two thousand and two, Trevor Immelman, who is a very very dear friend of mine, we're still close. I think he's doing an unbelievable job at CBS. But Trevor was playing in Europe and he was the first player that I ever really got to work with, and it was an opportunity for me to go, Okay, I've

learned all of this stuff from my dad. I've taken in all of this knowledge, and how do I apply it now without a safety net? Because before I was working in a place where my dad was around. If I got in trouble, if I wasn't figuring something, and I could say, hey, Dad, take a look at this way, do you think and he'd bail me out. So when I went to work in Europe, I realized that I didn't really know anything, and I had to figure out

what I believed in the golfer. I had a lot of knowledge, but I didn't know how to apply any of it. So Trevor was really the first player that I was able to kind of go, Okay, this is what he's coming to me with as a player, and these are kind of the ways that I'm going to go about trying to help him get better. And I made a conscious effort at that time to not kind of seek my dad's opinion or counsel because one of the things I think is really important is an intructors

is you have to fail. You have to make mistakes. I think that's important in life in general, and you learn from the mistakes you make way more than the successes that you have. And so I worked with Trevor for a number of years and kind of helped, I wouldn't say resurrect his career, but he was supposed to be a superstar at a young age and kind of not really developed the way that he had wanted to.

And the work that we did together, he won, you know, some golf tournaments, the first real professional win I ever had with a player. Was when Trevor won in two thousand and three, I think at the South African Open he won the South African which was a huge win from him, But that was a huge win for me and I learned a lot in the years that I worked with Trevor, and I still look back on those days, you know, incredibly fondly because they were hugely, hugely important

in my development. So I can't thank Trevor enough for choosing to hire me in two thousand and two, because I don't think I would have gotten to where i'd gotten I have gotten today and been able to work with the players that I work with if it hadn't been for Trevor given me a break and taking a chance on me. And you know, I'll be indebted to Trevor for the rest of my life for doing that. Best way to continue learning about golf coaching books, podcasts.

I think we're in a fantastic time if you're a golf instructor. That's the reason why I do this podcast is to try and you know, give as much information as I possibly can. There's so many outlets now, there's so many great things that you can you know, watch and learn from I think the great thing for me is I think in the last I'd say in the last fifteen years, I've been exposed to so many people that are not part of the inner circle of golf.

They're from other sports, and they're from other backgrounds, And I have learned probably more in the last fifteen years from non golf people and try to apply that to golf than I have necessarily from from golf people. You know, I try and listen and learn from as many coach as I can. I try and ask as many questions as I possibly can. You know, when at Augusta National, because we're not allowed to go on the golf course in practice rounds. It's the only professional golf tournament that

is coaches. The rules that Augusta National are no coaches inside the ropes. So what that means is a lot of coaches have a lot of time to sit around because they can't go out and watch their players. So I spend a lot of time with other coaches, and you know, anytime I can sit with Cameron McCormick, who I've had on the podcast before, anytime I can pick Cam's brain. I mean, I ask as many questions as I can I'll show him swings on juniors that I'm

working with or players that I'm working with. What do you think about this? What do you think about that? Phil Kenyon, who I've had on the pod, who I think is the best putting instructor on the planet. You know, I'll sit and talk to Phil about what do you think about this guy's doing? What do you think about that guy's doing. I had some really cool conversations with Brandy Smith, who coaches Scotti Scheffler. Randy is the ultimate

old school. He's in the vein of my dad to have the opportunity to pick his brain and listen and kind of hear what he has to say. And then I try and talk to as many players as I can. Patrick Reid, whether you like Patrick Reid, whether you don't like your Pat Patrick Reid, that's your choice. I don't care whether you like him or you don't like him. But as a golfer, the guy's a hell of a golfer. And I've been he plays a lot of practice rounds. Because he's on DJ's team now, he plays a lot

of practice rounds. I mean, I'm videoing his short game because the guy is just a genius when it comes short game. I mean, I think Patrick reads short game is on a par with anyone, and that includes Sevi Biosteros as well. I know Billy Foster, who has caddied for Sevy before rates Patrick reads short game as being one of the best he's ever seen and just trying

to pick his brain. So I think if you're going to be in instruction and you want to try and give lessons and stuff, you need to ask as many questions as you can and try and find as much knowledge as you can. My dad has always said that if you're a golf instructor, find the instructor or the coach whose thoughts and theories and opinions on the golf swing you disagree with the most, and then go listen

to them give a seminar. You should be able to find something from listening to somebody that you definitely didn't agree with and go oh, I kind of like that part. So I try and pick the brains of as many people as I can and just try and get as much information as I possibly can which will help me become a better instructor. This is a good question. Do pro golfers have swing thoughts or is it solely focusing on landing points. I think every golfer is different, and

I kind of look at golfers individually. They all kind of learn differently, They all kind of need different things. There are players that need a lot of information, there are players that don't need a lot of informations. There are players that want things complicated, and there are players that don't. I work with two players, three players really, but DJ and Brooks. They want things as simple as possible. They I don't try and impress them with my knowledge.

I don't try and impress them with fancy terms. We work on very specific things. I try and stay on message with all of them and try and keep them working on the same things because I feel like I have a good idea as their coach as to what makes them great players and what makes them the best

players in the world. But I do think that you have to try and figure out if you're working with someone and they're trying to compete as a player, you need to figure out what makes that player tick and what makes that player good, and how that player receives information and how that player absorbs information and what that player needs. A great example of that is at the Live event in Adelaide. Pat Perez said, listen. I know I've talked about this on the pod before the season

finale for Live last year in Miami. Pat said, listen. We'd been working on hitting a fade, and he said, listen, I need to I want to go back to hitting a draw. And I feel like it's my job to listen to the player. And so we got Pat hitting draws. He played with it pretty good. We got to Adelaide and he said, listen, this course is really really tight. I feel if I could fade it, it would be

much easier to me. And this was Wednesday afternoon of the tournament, and I said to Pat, I said, okay, we know what you need to do to fade it, but we've got to bust our ass. You're playing golf in a day and a half. So we hit a lot of balls Wednesday night. We had a lot of balls Thursday, did a lot of work during the practice round, and then we hit a lot of balls after the practice round, and then we hit a lot of balls before Friday to get him back to fading the golf ball.

And had a legit chance to win and had a top five and you know it was a really, really good week for him. I think you have to listen to your players. You have to ask your players what shots they're trying to hit, what shots they want to hit. And again that goes back to me saying that you need to ask as many questions as possible. And last one, what body part initially starts the downswing? Single word answer. I'd love to be able to give you one word

answers for that. Unfortunately there isn't a one word answer. I think it varies from player to player, and I think it definitely varies from what shot you're trying to hit. If you're trying to hit in my opinion, if you're trying to hit fades, the difference in how you start the downswing is very different than if you're trying to hit draws, and I think you've got to look at what your tendency is. As a generalization, I do think that, in my opinion, the downswing for the best players in

the world starts from the ground up. But having said that, the two guys that I work with at fade it Brooks and DJ we're always trying to have them feel like the golf club gets more in front of them on the downswing, because when the golf club gets behind them on the downswing, they struggle. So yeah, I mean maybe it's a generalization, but if you're trying to fade the golf ball, the club needs to work more in front of your body than it needs to work more

behind your body. But I think you've got to look at what a player does and then say, Okay, what are the keys to help them start the downswing. Some people feel it in their feet, some people feel it in their knees, some people feel it in their hips, some people feel it in their chests, some people feel it in the arms. And the golf swing. I just don't think there's a one word answer to that question. A great question, but I do think a lot of it is swing dependent and is dependent on the type

of shot that you're trying to hit. So that was

solo episode of the pod. Jumped around a little bit there, But like I said, I think with everything that's going on in professional golf, the most important thing for me is I think we are in an age to where we are seeing some of the best golfers and they are playing unbelievable golf, and I think golfers are playing golf all over the world on a myriad of different tours, and I think that if you are trying to pigeonhole golfers into only being great based off of the tour

that they play on, I just don't get that argument, because I think we are seeing some unbelievable golfers. I think we are in a very very rich vein of form in professional golf. John Rahm, Scotti Scheffler, young guys like Tony Feenow. I think they're playing great golf on the PGA Tour. I think Taylor Gooch, I think Brooks Koepka. They're playing great golf on LIV. I think Nelly Corda is playing great golf on the LPGA Tour. I think there are great golfers and great golf swings in the

game of golf, not on specific tours. The game of professional golf, I think right now is in a fantastic, fantastic place, and whatever side of this battle you're on that certain people want a battle to be happening, I

just don't think you need to. If you like golf and you like golf swings, there is great golf being played all over the world on a lot of different tours, and I am really really excited about where because I think right now we have some tremendous players, we have some great champions, and I can't wait for the rest of this year for the major championships to see how this all plays out, because I think we are going

to see some great battles. I think we are going to see some great players winning tournaments, and I think we're going to see some surprises, you know, pop up over the next three majors, And I can honestly tell you I am one hundred percent here for it and I can't wait to watch it. Son of a Butcher comes to you every Wednesday. Can't thank everybody enough for listening, great review, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. We will see everyone next week.