Previewing Augusta with Austin Johnson & Kessler Karain

It's the Son of a Butcher podcast. We come to you every Wednesday. With the first Major just around the corner at Augustin National, I thought we would do a little deep dive into what that golf course is like. And I can't think of two better people to talk about what it's like to be on that golf course. Kessler Karine and Austin Johnson. They have both been on the Bad. Kessler caddies for Patrick Reed. Patrick Reed won a green jacket obviously. Austin Johnson AJ caddies for his brother,

Hey Jah, Yeah, sure, I'll start off. Well. First off, first thing that comes to mind is it's physically the most demanding week of the year for the caddies. I mean it's to me, it's the hardest walk of the year.

You know, you're you're in the gym six seven days where you're in unbelieve you both are in unbelievable shape. And it is a hard, hard walk around that place for a week.

It's a it's a tough walk. You got the jumpsuit on as well, Sorry about that. You got the jumpsuit on the way as on as well, which adds another degree of difficulty. It can be hot in April there as well. Yeah, and I mean, and then outside it being the most physically demanding mentally, it's the most demanding tournament as well, because it's the biggest tournament of the year. A and I mean every shot from a caddies point

Yes, I mean, obviously we hear so much h Augusta about to win. Not only as a player do you have to control what your golf swing is doing, control the shots, but you have to kind of control your mind. And they talk about it being so demanding mentally. AJ just alluded to it. But what do you find kes when you're out there when you got when you and Patrick Reid we out there when you guys won, did you feel that it was taxing mentally? Even as a caddie.

Absolutely. Everyone always asks, oh, that must have been so much fun, and you're like, yeah, after after is fun. Everything leading up to that, you know, pin going down on eighteen and taking the flag off is just grueling,

Yeah, and I think we hear I mean, one of the things I think that makes Augustus so great is that it is played at the same golf course every year. But that also means that everybody kind of knows where

Uh?

I don't know. I mean for me, they all look they all look difficult. But I think the big thing is is when when you make that turn ten eleven twelve, you can get off to a good start on the back nine there, then then you you know, you really feel good about about shooting a good number. But yeah, you know, I feel like ten ten eleven twelve, that stretch causes a lot of people a lot of trouble. It's it's a stressful, especially eleven elevens of beast a cold day.

So when you guys are out there. You know it's difficult, right, you know, I mean there is there's danger lurking all over that golf course. But you guys have both caddy for players that have won a green jacket, so obviously you know there were good shots out there. Is it a mindset that Augusta that I think I feel like it can sometimes lull you into this kind of defensive

I mean, there's been a few years where the greens were just a little bit softer than they typically are, like whole fifteen that back right pin. I mean, I remember a couple of times if you hit the right bunker,

Do you guys prepare more out of say some of that. I think I think Kessler was spot on with the firmness of the greens. If August of the greens are firm, you're not aggressive. You might not be aggressive one time all round you're trying to hit somewhere into the heart of the green and meet of the green. And leave yourself a up he'll putt, you know. And yeah, if it's soft like you can November when dust and want it,

Do you guys like it? The players say they like it when it's firm and fast. Do you guys as caddies like it when it's firm and fast Augusta?

I like it when it's firm and fast. I think it shows the teeth of the golf course a little more because you know, the fans on TV, they want to see the ball, you know, rolling forty feet away from the pin and stuff like that, and so it's I think so I think the players, like anybody, wants the golf course to be. You know, it's as hard as it not as hard as it can be, but as hard as the tournament wants it to be.

Yeah, as long as it's not in like the Mickey Mouse mode of that place can get especially depend on like win conditions and everything. But I like it firm and fast because I think it plays into Patrick's game. I think you know when you met, when it's firm and fast, it usually plays harder, and I think he shines in those situations.

Preparation wise, do you feel like it's a golf course as a caddy that you prepare more for or is? And mentally do you feel like you need to prepare more go out on the course without the player, walk around, figure out where everything's going to be.

I don't know why, but for whatever reason, it's the only week of the year it's the same course, same everything, every year, and I go out and double and triple check my numbers every single year. You know, they move a few boxes.

They make minute changes in the trick of the changes that they make it because I think that's the most amazing thing about that golf course is they can.

Set it up any way that they want, right. They can set up up to where they can protect power, they can set it up to where they said, okay, we're gonna let guys go. But from a preparation standpoint, it is a golf course that I mean, you guys have played, and I mean you guys have played there and caddied there so many times. But I do think it does the same thing to caddies that it does to the players, that it's this Jedi mind trick. You're like, Okay, I need to make sure I've got this this, I

I mean, and caddies always have to have an answer no matter what. There's never I don't know what do you think? You know? It's it's tough to be it can't ever get comfortable.

There there as well. Also, it gives you at least amount of information.

That really I didn't know that.

Yeah, they're pretty basic. You get like the bunker numbers and stuff, but there's no.

Not like a regular week you got pictures.

They're not going to give you a slope on any of those numbers either, So you got to go get all the slopes. Now, the slopes generally are pretty much the same, but the heads change a little bit, so it might be one off here and there, so you just always have to double check. But it's a place that just wants to keep you uncomfortable, and you can't ever get comfortable like one every you know whereas here like certain places you've seen them like ten times, like

Like do you as a caddy, do you think there are any caddies that feel comfortable around Augusta Nashal And you would think that the two of you would feel comfortable around there, caddy, because you guys have you guys have been on the bag for weeks.

I can answer for myself. I don't feel comfortable, right man. I mean, I just don't know how anybody maybe bones he's been around there enough. I don't know.

Maybe the caddies that work there, but then put them in the tournament situation and that changes.

You know, Nothing about that place makes me feel feel very comfortable. I mean, I love the golf course, my favorite golf course in the world. But it's it's definitely the most challenging golf course for caddies and the biggest tournam of the year. I don't know, I get nervous during the practice routes just caddying.

I mean, it's unbelievable the fans are screaming during practice routes and not screaming, but like they're in every shot during practice routes sometimes.

So what's more difficult has caddies to figure out around the gusta the greens or the wind? Because I think some of the great shots at Augusta are on that twelfth hole where they're in the lead and they're standing there and they're trying to So you both agree that it's the wind.

I'd say it's more important for us to know the wind than where the where the break around the green is because at least the player you know he can hit the putt and they and they play so much and they hit so many practice What.

Are the hardest places on that golf course to gauge the wind? Front?

For me, that's six t is sneaky because you can't ever feel the wind there and straight down hills the balls up in the air. The part three six, and I don't know, I just don't ever feel the way twelve is obviously.

The most famous, means said some reason six You just can't You can't feel any win there.

And it's a t shot where you need to control the distance and it's ratten. I mean it's so downhill. I mean it's got to play what ten down or something like that. Yeah, for sure, And I don't know. I think that that one's always a tough one to give him a number to commit to.

Are there places on the golf course, guys in the fair ways for second shots?

That second shot on fifteen, it is a good one with the windows.

Oh yeah, so you're trying to be elevated.

Shots, I mean personally just me, but fourteen as well, like the second shot in fourteen had some close calls there or just sometimes.

You gotta be a number because you come up a little short.

Yeah, on that right pin when we won, we kept it short of the pin. I mean there's maybe four feet over and it's like not a good caddy number, but definitely got a little bit of luck. And I think around there sometimes you need a little bit of luck. Every everyone who's won there has maybe a little bit of luck somewhere.

Because it is because of the green complexes and the way that they're designed, and some of the pin positions that they can put pins at Augusta are so difficult to get to the numbers that you guys are talking about the difference between being one or two yards out.

Got one hundred foot but at left is where you end up. Yeah, you've landed at four paces from the pen. Now you got a one hundred foot two point Yeah, it's yeah, it's yeah, that's what I'm saying. That's one. You got to be spot on with the number, and you can't really fill a win there. It's just just a tricky.

Little Obviously, the obvious places at Augusta that you have to pick up shots are the par fives, the second hole, the eighth hole, thirteen and fifteen. How important and is that something that you think is in the players heads, But is that something that's in your guys' heads where you say, okay, God, we know this is a very difficult golf course, but we have four chances here. Talk to me about the par fives, because that's where you

Well, I mean that you used to feel like that. But they keep getting longer and longer every year, So I mean it's yeah, I mean thirteen, I don't know how many how many guys went for it since they moved that te I mean, if you don't have to draw and kind of sling it around that corner, it's I just don't see that. I don't think it's worth going for it with three wood in your hand all the trouble up there. And same with I mean, they moved fifteen back. I've heard they moved two back this year.

Yeah, back in a little left. But it brings that that bunker now is like a little bit it used to be closer. So I'm kind of happy about.

It because I just don't know how many of them are going to be reachable for if they play them all the way back.

To be reachable for sure. Eight eight is one that if you make a paw on, I'm never too upset about for us because that fairway is always given us trouble. So I'm happy to hit the fairway and get a look for Bertie. I don't want to like scramble for a par there, but that one I'm not too But once you make that turn after twelve, like you said, once you get past twelve, that's when I feel like I want to kind of step on the gas in the year like but now, I mean, things have changed.

Not given the situation, Because everybody says the back nine begins on Sunday on the tent pole, right, everybody says that always at Augusta, and everyone knows the drama around there, but excluding the drama that you know is out there, Which nine do you think, just from a pure playing standpoint, not from a situation standpoint, because obviously trying to win on the back nine at Augusta and get a green jacket is always more difficult on the back nine just

Yeah, I don't know. If one size pretty bad.

I mean I feel like you get, you know, kind of one and two, even though one sneaky, but one and two is like a nice all right, here we go. Three. I mean, you could see some really good numbers there, you could birdy it, but it's it's a dirty little green too. Four, then five, I mean, hitch, I feel like, you know, four and five hitch you. And then it's like you're kind of on and then you say six

Yeah, but it's in everybody, I accomplish you that.

But then eight, it's like, all right, part five, so you're always thinking there's a chance for birdie there. Nine's pretty tough on the second shot. I feel like, depending on.

Where you're driving is because you can be hitting off the downslope or if you can get it down to the flat.

For sure, but anything in the fairway from there, I mean, I think I want to say that it's more of a second shot hole that's you know, and then ten I feel like can be kind of a break. But then you hit eleven, twelve and then thirty easy holes out now we're just talking are less hard.

Than Okay, this is a little bit of a break.

I mean between the park, like you said, the par five and you throw you throw in three in there and you throw in you know, I mean, these guys are so good sixteen and twelve or or you know, seven iron and a wedge nine iron from twelve whatever, So you think you're thinking you should get looks on those holes. But then again, you know twelve, you know you can make up seven just as fast as you can make two. So it's but you think you think you're thinking you want to get good looks on those holes.

Over the years. I think the poor threes at Augusta National throughout the history of the of the Championship have been where some of the great moments Tiger Jack, all of that. Out of the poor threes, which ones do you feel like are the hardest and which ones do you feel like if you had to rank them as hardest to easiest, which one would be the hardest and which ones which ones would be easy or four.

Is one of the hardest part threes on the planet.

People.

The talk us through the fourth hole as a par three. So the distance that you play it, you guys can play it anywhere from what it's.

Two forty from when they play it back and the right flag you got about three yard landing zone over the bunker. The bunkers fifteen feet deep. Can can't see the flag from when you're down in the bunker. The greens pitched at fifteen percent back to front. I mean it is just a munch.

It's very difficult to hit the grind.

I mean, yeah, in front flags you got you know it's six yards wide. You're trying to land a foreign I mean it's you just make your three and you run at fifteen.

Yeah, I mean I feel like.

Sixteen right sixteen when they put the Sunday pin where everybody is trying to make hold one. Sixteen all of a sudden becomes somewhat of an easy hole when they put the pin on Sunday.

I mean on that golf course, you feel like, yeah.

Like a right pin that they tend to put sometimes on Friday, where it's up on that shelf back right.

That's listen. I'm just gonna put some respect on twelve because I don't want the golf God's mad at me just because of the wind. But also, I mean, you're right four, I'd say, I'd say sixteen definitely is. I would say if there's an easy is the easiest one to give you, it's just that's got to be it, And then the hardest is I think all player dependent.

Making six the front left pen that's an easy hole because you just hit it long right and let it come right right down to it. But yeah, six ball right, you're back right pin, it's a hard hole. Same one sixteen. If it's left pin, its feeds right down to it. It's a back right pen. One of the hardest shots on the golf course.

I'm going to say twelve is just consistently the hardest, no matter what you mentioned.

Twelve and how difficult I mean, and I don't think people have an understanding. Is one how short that hole is? I mean it plays max one twelve.

Yeah, it's usually what one like thirty something, yeah one, it can play forty something.

It can play from one twenty five to one fifty five.

But it's crazy because you see someone only nine steps wide anyway.

From my pitch. It's like a little chippy eight iron if it's into the lens.

Yeah, so you'll see someone hit the shot ten seconds before you hit. Let's say you know there. You know everyone knows everyone game pretty well for the most part. You play with them enough and you're like, oh, this guy just hit his his one forty five club and end up long. You're like, okay, well i'll hit one. I'll hit it one forty club and then you end up and you see a guy end up like short bunker and you're like, how is this even impossible?

When the ball is in the air there as caddies, is that one of the most nervous because as soon as you're hitting, you're like, okay, please let us please, please, hopefully we got this right.

Yeah, it's it's nerve I mean for pulling a wedge. It's it's one of the more nerve wrecking.

It's one of the more satisfying greens to hit. When it hits the green, you're like, oh, maybe we birdied it on Sunday. By the way, it was a good I was that was probably one of my favorite birdies out there.

Well, you look at the flag on eleven and it's bowling the complete opposite ways flag on twelve.

Yeah, and then you look at.

The top of the tree trying to tell you, guy, just commit to this shot. Yeah, and he's asking you where the wind is and you have no You just got.

To be confident though when you say it, because they can't sense doubt in your mind, in your voice.

You give him your best guess and pray you're right.

You both worked for players that won go through it individually. Keess and and a day. What did your player? What did what did Patrick? What did DJ? In your opinions, do well that week. So when you and Patrick won Kes, what did you feel like you guys did well? He did well for the week.

For his game, I think he hit his off the t box with the driver. He is driver as good as I've ever seen him hit it, and it you know, if he's in the fairway and he's hitting consistently in the fairway, I think he's one of those dangerous guys out there. And I think he's proven that plenty of times. But that's that's something I remember, you know, in practice

Hey, J, what was DJ in your opinion doing really really well the week he won?

Well? Obviously, if you win the Masters, you're doing everything really well. But you know, the year we won was it was in November and twenty twenty, so it was it was colder, it was soft, and I mean he obviously striked it really well, but he was just he was really in control of his distances. I mean I remember tell him a number and it seemed like he just he'd hit that number.

Well.

Yeah, yeah, especially and then then when it's soft too, because you know, you're flying everything. So yeah, he did everything well, but yeah, just really in control of his distances, just was on top of his game, stayed focused. I mean, it's funny. We were in there while he's hit his second shot on the green in eighteen on Sunday, and we're walking up the fairway and I hand him as

What do you mean?

We got a BIRDI putt probably twenty feet. What are you talking about? He goes, no, No, like, like to our score? How are we dude? You got five shot lead? He went. He went the whole day without looking at one scoreboard. I mean, I don't know if he might. If you've been to Augusta, the scoreboards are massive, like a like a billboard on the side of the interstate, and I mean you're walking down the fairway five minutes past.

It's also the type of golf course if you've ever been there, you know when things are happening on the golf course. Yeah, that is one of the cool things about it.

Well, there were no fans, so usually you can hear all the other roars from the birdies and stuff we were out there, but there were the year we played there weren't any fans allowed, so it's ka it was a little strange, and he didn't have the roars of Augusta, so it was a little weird in that sense. But when the pressure was still there, trust me.

But when the patrons are there, there are distinct roars from you know, the Tiger rar, you know the Phil roy, you know the Rory roar. There are certain players around that course the fans that that take to them when they do things you can kind of know it's coming.

You know, a birdie and an eagle roar too. A difference in.

Our whole day. I mean, it was Ricky and Jordan right throwing a bunch of roars right in front of us, just added pressure, just more like I'm like, yeah, like I really need this right now. And you can just hear it every time, and you know, seventeen, I think Ricky had maybe he almost hold out he heard it. And then of course on like you know, we make a great par on seventeen and I'm thinking, all right, two shot league going into eighteen, and I I swear as soon as I set the bag down on the

When you're walking up that eighteenth fairway, I can't even imagine what it would be like for a player, but

I mean woke up for the next two weeks saying it was a dream, no joke, Like was like that really did happen. That really did happen. And the weight that comes up like just lifts off your shoulders. For me personally, if there's any if I could have one major in my whole career as a caddy, that would be my one, no doubt.

Yeah, we grew up an hour down the street. So you know, when we were kids, every putt, you know, for we had to go home whatever it was the window masters, and you know that's just been a dream of ours forever. And then to do it and be on the bag for the big bro, it's a yeah. I mean I couldn't hold back.

I started Hell, I almost cried I was watching it.

I mean I just remember, not like I couldn't stop smiling for like three four days afterwards. It's just yeah, like you said, big relief, sheer joy.

And I think because the golf course, it's the same golf course, because we know.

What the tradition, the tradition.

Do you feel like as a as a caddy, as as and the player as a team when you win there that you're you're almost like, I know, you don't want to jinx it. But we figured it out this week. We figured it out on the most difficult golf course.

Absolutely, I felt like you cracked the code on a state. You know.

Yeah, I mean, especially from caddies, because it is the most challenging both physically and mentally. And you know that you do. You do feel like a huge sense of accomplishment when you when you are successful around that place because it is so challenging.

Well, I know you both can't wait to get there, and hopefully there's more green jackets available for you guys, But I think to win around that place is pretty special, and for you two to do it is, Uh, it's got to be pretty special for you guys.

Thanks for talking to us, thanks for having us appreciate you.

So I think that was just some fantastic insight from A J and Kessler, And I think you can hear them talking about what it's like to be on the bag. And I've been going to the Masters, you know, really, I think the first year I went to the Masters with nineteen eighty seven, my grandfather was still alive. But it is such a special place. But as a coach,